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Messages - Cate

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Policy and solutions / Re: Geoengineering, another rush for money?
« on: March 28, 2017, 02:20:48 AM »

"Under the Trump administration, enthusiasm appears to be growing for the controversial technology of solar geo-engineering, which aims to spray sulphate particles into the atmosphere to reflect the sun’s radiation back to space and decrease the temperature of Earth.......
David Schnare, an architect of Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency transition, has lobbied the US government and testified to Senate in favour of federal support for geoengineering.
He has called for a multi-phase plan to fund research and conduct real-world testing within 18 months, deploy massive stratospheric spraying three years after, and continue spraying for a century, a duration geoengineers believe would be necessary to dial back the planet’s temperature......"

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The Nares Strait thread
« on: March 24, 2017, 10:39:39 PM »
Cool image, oren. Thanks so much.

Here is an interesting piece on wind and currents in Nares, by a student of Andreas Muenchow.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« on: March 24, 2017, 10:34:22 PM »
Surface ice in Nares is moving through. I don't know how to animate---toggle the past couple of clear days to watch it. I'm sure someone here can work out the speed. ;)

Notice that the heel, toe, and sole of the bigfoot boot "arch" at the Lincoln Sea end have frozen over again, for the time being.

Is it normal for that much of the Northwest passage to have such thin ice? With that large crack, it almost looks as if it is open for business.

I was told that Nares usually opens in July. If you compare this same period from previous years, you can see how different the whole strait looks this year. The famous arch is key---will it hold or not? And will other arches be able to form with the ice in that state?

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The Nares Strait thread
« on: March 24, 2017, 01:48:24 PM »

oren, refreeze has happened, as you indicated---the heel, toe, and sole of the bigfoot boot in the Lincoln Sea appear to have frozen over again, for now. That arch seems to be key to keeping the older sea ice in place since there's not much fast ice farther down the strait for arch-formation. It's all on the move---the ice all down the strait appears to be cracking and moving. I assume this is current-driven?

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« on: March 24, 2017, 01:39:48 PM »
Surface ice in Nares is moving through. I don't know how to animate---toggle the past couple of clear days to watch it. I'm sure someone here can work out the speed. ;)

Notice that the heel, toe, and sole of the bigfoot boot "arch" at the Lincoln Sea end have frozen over again, for the time being.

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: Greenland ice sheet retreat
« on: March 23, 2017, 08:29:32 PM »
Canadian Ice Service, Ice Glossary:

Drift/pack ice 
Term used in a wide sense to include any area of ice, other than fast ice, no matter what form it takes or how it is disposed. When concentrations are high, i.e., 7/10 or more, the term pack ice is normally used. When concentrations are 6/10 or less the term drift ice is normally used.

Ice field
Area of floating ice, consisting of any size of floes and greater than 10 km across.

Lots more here:

Glaciers / Re: Barnes Ice Cap / Penney Ice Cap
« on: March 22, 2017, 03:23:30 PM »

Report on a study on the Barnes icecap by Gifford Miller at UColorado Boulder. Photos.

Quoting from article:

"Global warming is causing significant melting throughout the region and will claim the last remnants of a massive ice sheet that once covered all of North America and that remained stable for 2,000 years, according to findings published yesterday in Geophysical Research Letters, a journal of the American Geophysical Union. The Barnes Ice Cap, which is about the size of Delaware and is located on Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, is likely to disappear even if humanity curtails its combustion of fossil fuels at levels not currently expected, even under the most conservative estimations.

"And while the ice cap's disappearance may only cause sea levels to rise a few millimeters, its loss symbolizes a more dire threat of warming to the region, said Gifford Miller, a glacial geologist at the University of Colorado, Boulder, and co-author of the study. It shows large portions of the Greenland ice sheet are also at risk of disappearing, which would raise sea levels across the globe."

Thanks to ColoradoBob for the link.

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The Nares Strait thread
« on: March 21, 2017, 01:35:20 PM »
oren, yes, that giant jackboot is still holding in the Lincoln Sea. As for the strait freezing and thawing, agreed, to be expected this time of year, and I think evident in the image today as well, a thin ice skim between thicker floes. We are now at 12 hours daylight and increasing daily, so if Nares loses ice cover/albedo, I suppose that might make a tiny difference in the surface temp, which could knock on in ice-melt farther north in the passage?

Thanks for the image sources, will have a look.

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The Nares Strait thread
« on: March 21, 2017, 12:53:12 PM »
Some cloud cover on this 20 Mar 2017 image but it looks like there is even more open water in the Petermann outlet area than a couple of days ago.

This is only my second melt year and I don't use anything but Explorer, so maybe the other image sources and more experienced eyes have better info, please? but it looks to me like Nares ice is on the move. If so---well, it's a bit early, isn't it?

The link shows the entire strait. Zoom in for detail.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« on: March 21, 2017, 12:36:36 AM »
New post today from Robertscribbler: "Frailest Ever Winter Sea Ice Facing a Cruel, Cruel Summer."

Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The Nares Strait thread
« on: March 20, 2017, 07:30:33 PM »
The whole strait looks loosened up to me, like it's getting ready to move. Heading south through the strait from our giant foot----to the area just above the "knee", roughly at the mouth of Petermann, there is open water.

As usual, toggle the years to compare.

Permafrost / Re: Shelf Temperature Profiles
« on: March 19, 2017, 07:57:55 PM »
LOL Terry I'm too old to lose any sleep over this stuff. :)

Apparently there are submarine pingos all over the Beaufort as well. Incidentally, I found this on an old forum discussion about an ice-free Arctic:

"In 1980 the CCGS John A MacDonald struck the top of an uncharted undersea mound off of Eureka. The heavy icebreaker was creased and holed." Possibly a pingo? I suppose they wouldn't pose much of a hazard to shipping with modern navigational equipment. Unless one went kaboom just as the ship was passing over it.  ;)

For interest, here is a short paper on tsunamis in Atlantic Canada.

Thanks, Jim. It's back online now.

I'm getting 404 Not Found for the DMI website today. 'Sup? Maintenance, perhaps?

Arctic Background / Climate change in Nunavut
« on: March 18, 2017, 11:04:43 PM »
Website from the Climate Change Centre of the Government of Nunavut, offering an overview of climate change in the Canadian Arctic. Great resource from the front lines.

"The Nunavut Climate Change Centre helps Nunavummiut learn about Arctic climate change, and how they can engage and adapt. Here is an overview of climate change in the Canadian Arctic, and opportunities to get involved and explore the latest research and information on traditional and local knowledge of climate change."

Thanks to Andy in SD over at Robertscribbler for the link.

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: March 18, 2017, 01:22:17 PM »
The "eye of Quebec."

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: March 14, 2017, 11:41:55 PM »
He looks a bit sad......

"Frosty the Snowman knew the sun was hot that day
So he said let's run and we'll have some fun now
Before I melt away......" 


Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: The Nares Strait thread
« on: March 12, 2017, 10:15:14 PM »
It doesn't look very much like an arc(h) anymore.

Arctic sea ice / Re: Northern Sea Route thread
« on: March 12, 2017, 02:45:55 PM »
Such a powerful image, Jim.

Russia is owning the Arctic.

Consequences / Re: Ocean Temps
« on: March 11, 2017, 12:30:51 PM »

Eye-balling the Disko area today---in 2016 there was open water all around the island in early March, whereas it still looks pretty ice-bound through the NW channel today. There is a lot more ice sitting in the surrounding waters than last year as well, but it's all rubble-acious. Wind and current play a big role in where the ice sits on any particular day. Toggle years to compare back to 2014.

Arctic sea ice / Re: Arctic Image of the Day
« on: March 09, 2017, 10:02:56 PM »
Spotted on the pack ice north of Twillingate, Newfoundland, yesterday. A big bear, in good condition. Wonderful sight.

Polar bears are not unusual on the NE coast of Newfoundland this time of year. This chap would be following the seal herds, which are whelping on the pack ice. Sometimes they do come ashore and are stranded if the ice moves off. Very young or old bears are the most dangerous, as they are often hungry. Wildlife officials will transport stranded bears back out to the ice edge, if possible.

The rest / Re: Arctic Café
« on: March 08, 2017, 12:21:49 AM »
Couldn't resist after reading above about the topology of a glove.

The sleeping bag, a poem.

On the outside grows the furside; on the inside grows the skinside.
So the furside is the outside, and the skinside is the inside.
One side likes the skinside inside, and the furside on the outside.
Others like the skinside outside, and the furside on the inside.
If you turn the skinside outside, thinking you will side with that side,
then the soft side, furside's inside, which, some argue, is the wrong side.
If you turn the furside outside, as, you say, it grows on that side,
then your outside's next the skinside, which for comfort's not the right side.
For the skinside is the cold side, and your outside's not your warm side.
And two cold sides side by side are not right-side when side to side!
If you decide to side with that side, turn the topside furside inside.
Then the cold side furside skinside's, beyond all question, inside out!

Herbert George Ponting, photographer on Scott's last expedition.

I'm off now to warp a space ship into a Klein bottle.

*giggling*....and....cue "The Modern Hiawatha" by George A Strong:

 "He killed the noble Mudjokivis.
 Of the skin he made him mittens,
 Made them with the fur side inside,
 Made them with the skin side outside.
 He, to get the warm side inside,
 Put the inside skin side outside.
 He, to get the cold side outside,
 Put the warm side fur side inside.
 That's why he put the fur side inside,
 Why he put the skin side outside,
 Why he turned them inside outside."


The rest / Re: Arctic Café
« on: March 07, 2017, 11:01:47 PM »
Ice-related story: dramatic rescue of the crew of a sealing vessel out of Summerford,  Newfoundland, which ran into trouble in high winds and heavy ice-infested seas NE of St John's on Sunday. This was a first-time real-life rescue for the crew of the chopper, which was ably flown by one Captain Nicole Lively. :D

Check out the video in the story.

This is the time of year when Newfoundlanders have traditionally taken to the ice around our shores to harvest seals---harp seals, which whelp on the pack ice that drifts down from the Arctic on the Labrador Current. The hunt is not what it used to be, in the wake of animal rights campaigning, and nowadays no whitecoats are taken, but sealing is still an important economic contributor to many Newfoundland households. The entire animal in used, the carcase and hide, in traditional Newfoundland culture.

And yes. I miss A-Team too.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2016/2017 freezing season
« on: March 06, 2017, 11:48:02 AM »
Canadian Ice Service monthly "departure from normal concentration" charts show mostly normal concentration across the Canadian Arctic on 27 Feb 2017, with a few exceptions. For example, the great outflow of ice that comes down the Labrador Current from the west coast of Greenland along the Labrador coast is showing various degrees of lower than normal concentration along the entire periphery, as well as throughout waters NE of Newfoundland and in the Gulf of St Lawrence. The charts are here:

Permafrost / Re: Shelf Temperature Profiles
« on: March 03, 2017, 11:00:20 PM »
Terry, copying this from a post I made in Earthquakes and Climate Change thread last year:

"Will climate change in the Arctic increase the landslide-tsunami risk to the UK?"

This is a major multi-year collaborative study focusing on the possibility of Storegga-type landslides happening as a result of Arctic warming. My interest in this is personal, as Newfoundland is also included in the study area. We know about landslip tsunamis in this corner of the Atlantic: in 1929, the south coast of Newfoundland suffered a tidal wave associated with an earthquake-landslip on the continental shelf. The 1929 event may or may not have been linked to climate change, of course, but it is very interesting to see that scientists are interested in finding out what the effects of climate change might be for the ocean floor up north.

This BBC article sets out the issue in layperson's terms.

Permafrost / Re: Shelf Temperature Profiles
« on: March 03, 2017, 09:17:03 PM »
Terry, you might be interested in reading up on the Burin tidal wave of 1929, on the south coast of Newfoundland. There is some thought now that this may have been triggered by an undersea landslide on the continental shelf off Nova Scotia, a similar event--although on a much smaller scale!---to the catastrophic Storegga slide that drowned Doggerland, filled the North Sea, and made Great Britain an island a few years ago. :)

There is currently a multi-uni, multi-disciplinary study going on out of the UK, looking at the possibilities of undersea landslips around the North Atlantic basin and their possible effects on UK sea-level and how that might be mitigated, etc. One of the focal points of the study is the effect of climate change on clathrates, which apparently can cause landslips as they disgorge. I'll see if I can dig up the links. 

The rest / Re: 2017 open thread
« on: March 03, 2017, 09:10:20 PM »
^  ^   ^   ^   ^

And all that is why I miss A-Team.


Permafrost / Re: Shelf Temperature Profiles
« on: March 02, 2017, 05:58:03 PM »
Terry wrote: "Has there been any additional information locally about this occurrence?
I worried about the effect on commercial fishing, as well as the implication for shelves further north."

Terry, perhaps you heard about the new snow crab stock numbers, reported on CBC a few days ago? Link below. Snow crab stocks off the coast of NL are down 80% since 2013. The cause is acknowledged as warming waters over the past "decade or more."

It is encouraging at least to see our professional fisheries scientists flagging up climate change, even if you have to read the fine print to get it. CBC is certainly not going to highlight the fact in a headline!

This comes on the heels of a similar announcement of decline in shrimp stocks. These two species are significant "cash cows" for fishermen and fishing communities in Atlantic Canada, and declines mean nothing but bad news for the economies of the Atlantic provinces, with cod stocks still on the ropes.

The rest / Re: 2017 open thread
« on: March 02, 2017, 01:26:31 AM »
I miss A-Team. I reeaaaallly miss A-Team.

Permafrost / Re: Shelf Temperature Profiles
« on: March 02, 2017, 12:02:39 AM »
Didn't Cate post something about deep 11 c waters surging onto the shelves near Newfoundland?

I recognize that's south of our general areas of interest, but the extreme temperature caught my eye.


Terry I think this is the piece you recall? I posted in the AMOC Slowdown thread back in January because I didn't know where else to put it.   :)

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« on: March 01, 2017, 09:07:11 PM »
And farther south again, on the NE coast of Newfoundland, the Canadian Ice Service chart for Feb 28 shows some lessening of pressure, with concentration close to shore dropping to 7-8/10, down from 9-10/10 last week. Most likely this is a function of offshore winds, as bairgon has noted. Bonavista Bay has also cleared out---for now, of course. A change in wind can bring it all back in. The ice in this area--the traditional "front" for the Newfoundland seal hunt----is almost entirely wind-dependent. Melt-out is a matter of when, not if. This is the time of year when we Newfoundlanders start to pray for sustained sou'westerlies, to blow the damned stuff back out into the Labrador Current and on south to warmer waters.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2016/2017 freezing season
« on: February 28, 2017, 02:34:46 AM »
Re post #2949

I am so sad to see this kind of garbage cropping up here on the ASIF: not only a blatant ad hominem attack, which is the last refuge of those who have no argument, but smearing an entire profession ("mainstream" scientists).

Please can we get back on topic?

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2016/2017 freezing season
« on: February 25, 2017, 01:11:53 PM »
Re the problem of colours on Canadian Ice Service maps: maybe use the contact form on their website to suggest improvements/modifications for colour-blindness.

oren, thank you for that link. I'll give it a try. :)

My thanks to you as well, tealight. I will have a closer look at AWS for sure. Finding my way around the various satellite image sites is a challenge, but also quite an addictive pastime. :)

crandles, yes, I saw the 2016270 on the image, so I knew it was year plus something---duh! haha

Arctic sea ice / Re: Stupid Questions :o
« on: February 22, 2017, 02:28:14 AM »
Also, since the picture on the graphs page no longer finds this page for some reason, you can even check to see how those regions are doing at the moment compared to previous years:

Jim, thanks for this---yet another grim line on that graph for the entire NH. Looks like 2017 extent has managed to climb out of the basement only in the past couple of days.

crandles, that's a beauty shot--thanks. Do you have a date for it?

I'd love to see a Landsat 8 image from early October 2016---the magnification is incredible on the ones Espen posted. I don't know if there is some way to get that with the lance modis? Apologies, I am totally useless at anything techie. :)

Espen, is there an image from October 2016 for this area, to compare?

I noticed it on the satellite because of the apparent coastal run-off showing at the moment. A search of the forum led me to your incredibly detailed animations here. Thank you!

Arctic sea ice / Re: Stupid Questions :o
« on: February 21, 2017, 04:15:00 PM »
Thank you, magnamentis. It's interesting to me that that ice in Canadian waters even as far south as the Gulf of St Lawrence is counted as "Arctic" sea ice.

Arctic sea ice / Re: Stupid Questions :o
« on: February 21, 2017, 01:24:21 PM »
I have a question beyond stupid. :D

Does the term "Arctic sea ice extent" (in the data, discussions, etc) include the large area of coastal pack ice that annually makes it way from the various Arctic waterways down the Labrador coast to the "front" off NE Newfoundland?

Btw, this is the pack that provides the whelping ground for the harp seal and is the traditional ground for the much-maligned Newfoundland seal hunt---or as we call it, the seal fishery.


UD scientists report ocean data from under Greenland's Petermann Glacier

Andreas Muenchow and colleagues---report includes video:

"The researchers recently reported in the journal Oceanography that sensor data from August 2015 to February 2016 confirms that that the floating ice shelf is strongly coupled, or tied, to the ocean below and to Nares Strait, and temperatures vary with the tides and seasons.

Specifically, the paper found that the same water that has been measured in the fjord is under the glacier, lending credence to the idea that the continuity of the glacier depends on the conditions outside the glacier in the fjord....

Glaciers / Re: Canadian Glaciers
« on: February 15, 2017, 04:05:41 PM »
Thanks to Colorado Bob for the link, over on Robertscribbler. Posting here for reference.

Irvine, Calif., Feb. 14, 2017 — Ice loss from Canada’s Arctic glaciers has transformed them into a major contributor to sea level change, new research by University of California, Irvine glaciologists has found.

From 2005 to 2015, surface melt off ice caps and glaciers of the Queen Elizabeth Islands grew by an astonishing 900 percent, from an average of three gigatons to 30 gigatons per year, according to results published today in the journal Environmental Research Letters...

The study provides the first long-term analysis of ice flow to the ocean, from 1991 to 2015....

The Canadian ice cap has glaciers on the move into the Arctic Ocean, Baffin Bay and Nares Strait. The researchers used satellite data and a regional climate model to tally the “balance” of total gain and loss each year, and the reasons why. Because of the huge number of glaciers terminating in area marine basins, they expected that discharge into the sea caused by tide water hitting approaching glacier fronts would be the primary cause.

In fact, they determined that until 2005, the ice loss was caused about equally by two factors: calving icebergs from glacier fronts into the ocean accounted for 52 percent, and melting on glacier surfaces exposed to air contributed 48 percent. But since then, as atmospheric temperatures have steadily climbed, surface melt now accounts for 90 percent...."

The rest / Ocean Ranger, in memoriam
« on: February 15, 2017, 02:31:47 PM »
In memory of the 84 men of the Ocean Ranger.
All hands were lost when the rig capsized
in a terrible winter storm 270km east of Newfoundland
35 years ago today,
15 February 1982.

I remember it like yesterday. We were living in Twillingate on the NE coast of the Rock, and the wind that night howled like I'd never heard it before, a living screaming gale from the west. So odd, because our worst winds are nearly always nor-easterlies. We woke to find everything buried in huge drifts and the prospect of a day shovelling out, as everything was closed. But it was all put aside when we turned on the news. Everyone spent that terrible day glued to the TV in trembling disbelief. Newfoundland is tight-knit: the tragedy affected dozens of communities in the province. Everyone knew someone who had lost someone.

Over to the great Ron Hynes:

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2016/2017 freezing season
« on: February 11, 2017, 06:25:39 PM »
Canadian Ice Service analysis for east coast: fairly solid coverage at the moment along the Labrador Coast to NE Newfoundland waters with concentrations up to 100%. Mostly thin first-year ice with some grey and grey-white on the front. All looks pretty normal here for this time of year, but in another couple months we'll be praying for sou'westerlies.  :)

Arctic Background / Re: Importance of waves in the Arctic
« on: January 25, 2017, 12:14:49 AM »
Jim, thank you for putting me in the right place. :D

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2016/2017 freezing season
« on: January 24, 2017, 01:24:20 PM »

A study conducted in the Bering and Chukchi in the autumn of 2015 sheds new light on refreeze processes, and in particular on the effects of wind and wave action. 

Published in EOS 23 Jan 2017.

Neven, please move this if it's in the wrong thread. :)

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2016/2017 freezing season
« on: January 17, 2017, 07:36:58 PM »
A clip of Jennifer Francis explaining the new feedback causing "crazy" warmth in the Arctic this fall and winter 2016-2017. ClimateCrock interview from AGU 2016.

Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2016/2017 freezing season
« on: January 14, 2017, 07:17:28 PM »
I was  on a ferry in the Strait of Belle Isle in late March in 1980. 100% ice cover but all pan ice, strong SW winds which did not disperse ice as those straits are an inverted V. My strongest memory is how completely dizzying it was to watch what appeared to the mind to be solid snow/ice fields writhing 2-3 meters.

Well 2nd strongest. Strongest was the sound like being inside an oil drum while some outside beat on it with a hammer.

Hey, similar to my experience! I was on the summit of Round Head at L'Anse aux Meadows at dusk in mid-July 1974. That was quite a year for ice, as you may recall. Pack ice stretched all the way to the horizon, north and north eastwards. Swells of 2 m or so rippled that entire expanse of ice so dizzyingly I almost needed Gravol, and the sound---like nothing I'd ever heard before, like a hoarse roar from a million nonhuman throats, as all those ice pans crashed and rubbed together---deafening and truly unforgettable.

Arctic sea ice / Re: Northwest Passage thread
« on: January 14, 2017, 03:43:01 PM »

Ottawa Citizen, 9 Jan 2017

"Emails from discovery of HMS Terror show bad blood, secrecy behind the scenes

Internal Parks Canada emails show how the final days of the search for HMS Terror last September — ending in a discovery that should have been pure triumph — degenerated into secrecy and recrimination."

So were the emails leaked----or hacked!!??.... ;)

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