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Messages - Forest Dweller

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1
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 17, 2017, 10:41:23 AM »
Just when you been sitting on the edge of your seat and think you can relax, this season has you right back with nailbiting stuff.
Maria seems determined to either redo Irma, or just take out what Irma had missed for sake of completion on Hispaniola and elsewhere.
Or a bit of both.
The Red Cross and others must not be getting much sleep these days.
We should do a crowdfunding effort to give them free coffee first, so they can keep giving water to the victims.
Jokes aside, i hope preparations are scaled up everywhere.

2
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 16, 2017, 04:24:55 PM »
That is what our industrial culture calls paradise usually Rob, they pay big bucks to travel such places and usually destroy them too.
I believe this shot is after the great pacific tsunami from sattelite, during a fly-over to check up on them by Indian gvnmt as well it turned out they were fine...enough said.

3
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 16, 2017, 04:10:57 PM »
Those Tesla setup's look nightmarish to me actually and have me wondering how on Earth people think we can replace energy demands with other finite resources and limited possibilities?

What a strange remark. Kauai just switched to almost 100% renewable energy with that Tesla solar plant/battery system. And they lowered electricity cost from 30ct/kWh to 11ct/kWh.

The only people for which that is 'nightmarish' is the fossil fuel industry, since the Kauai example can be replicated everywhere.

Solar power is not a 'finite resource' in the practical sense. We can easily power the entire planet with solar/battery if we just had the guts to upscale. And for 11ct/kWh that can be done at competitive (to fossil fuel) cost.

Staying on topic, it doesn't look very hurricane-proof to me either... ;)

Solar systems in hurricane prone areas are designed to withstand at least 140 mph winds.

Ah here is one more advantage of using the Tesla solar/battery combination. This one at residential level :
https://www.fastcompany.com/40467003/during-irmas-power-outages-some-houses-kept-the-lights-on-with-solar-and-batteries

I'm sure that would seem strange to many Rob, as they only consider the factor of industrial society's energy needs and potential.
To me there is no such thing as renewable energy however.
You don't need an energy source except food.

Look at the big picture, what are solar panels, windmills etc made of?
What resources shall we deplete, what child labour and slavery employ etc?
What environmental destruction shall we cause covering all of industrial dominated Earth with so called renewable energy sources?
It will buy climate some time perhaps yes.
It will piss off the fossil fuel industry yes, although they are probably powerful enough to dominate new markets as well.
The cost to our living planet will still be enormous, not renewable at all.
Oddly enough the people on North Sentinel haven't needed to worry about these predicaments for the last 60,000-80.000 years.
They live on 9 square miles mate...do you see what i'm getting at?
Fields of solar panels are a nightmarish sight compared to their tiny island, look it up!
Look it up and be impressed with their track record, compared to which ours is just a smelly fart in time.
So therefore i would always consider any industrialized location on Earth a nightmare compared to a natural location yes.

Here is a picture of that place looking much better then, sorry i almost forgot.
Tell me how a solar power setup does not look a nightmare compared to that ok?
 ;)

4
Consequences / Re: Effects on Arctic Wildlife
« on: September 15, 2017, 09:02:49 AM »
Great idea to have this topic wili.
And there definitely is a lot more to observe than just the emaciated polar bears indeed.
A lot comes to mind.
From "grolars" to reindeer, the Alaskan orca's failing to reproduce, to the life forms on the sea floor.
If i see any interesting studies i will try to post, thanks mate.

5
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 15, 2017, 08:47:09 AM »
Statements like this :

The White House is only 54 feet above sea level.  If Jose went up the Chesapeake Bay, I think the
White House could flood.  Maybe that would wake up some skeptics. 

and this
We need to be shocked into action and deadly global catastrophes are the only way this will happen....say a deadly heatwave in the Southwest U.S. that kills 150,000.

are not helping at all.

If they were to happen they would be regarded as 'fluke' events and for good reason.
Global warming and climate change and sea level rise so far happen slowly but steadily.
And that is troublesome enough.

If there are any climate trigger points that lead to abrupt climate change, then we will see this only after a number of years in a row result in the same catastrophes, and then it will be too late anyway.

It's much more constructive to look at the bright side of what we can do to change, before it is too late. The island of Kauai sets an example :
https://electrek.co/2017/06/21/tesla-solar-powerpack-kauai-drone-video/

I agree Rob, but statements like that based on emotions are to be expected i guess.
Those Tesla setup's look nightmarish to me actually and have me wondering how on Earth people think we can replace energy demands with other finite resources and limited possibilities?
Staying on topic, it doesn't look very hurricane-proof to me either... ;)

6
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 15, 2017, 08:29:37 AM »
GFS for the 20th, which is not too long term outlook.
José grazing New York and more worryingly a fast developing powerful storm in roughly the same area affected by Irma.
National Hurricane Center gives that one 80% chance of developing in 5 days as well.

The mood is still grim in both the French and Dutch side of St. Maarten and this can't be helping.
I'm not impressed with the Dutch efforts to provide aid so far at all, no thinking outside of the box and little understanding of the desperate situation.
While they were too worried to land planes down there the US planes evacuated their people just fine and the locals felt deserted for it.
They never even considered airdropping which is what C130 planes are good at and would have been a sign of hope at least.

The not yet named storm seems like it will hit some islands whichever way it goes, let's hope it does not ravage places already in shambles...

7
Permafrost / Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« on: September 13, 2017, 10:16:40 AM »
The interesting bit to me being:

"It is all about monitoring,' said Dr Sinitasky.

'I know that oil and gas producing companies have maps of such objects and monitor them constantly.

'I have heard that for example Gazprom-Dobycha Yamburg make punctures and release gas to avoid eruption risk.

'When I was working at VNIIGAZ, I made a map of such objects for Gazprom.'

He said: 'The companies are very interested in minimising risks, they do not need any accidents, so they make maps and observe these objects very closely.

'As for the general map of such objects... The Institute of Oil and Gas Problems keeps a database on sites being discovered using satellite data.
The Earth Cryosphere Institute probably has its own database.'

Puncturing pingo's ey?
It would be nice if the good folks at Gazprom shared some footage of that...

8
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 12, 2017, 05:30:50 PM »
More trouble looming in the Pacific for Vietnam, China, Taiwan and Japan coming days.
Some bizarre reports down here today from St. Maarten describing a crazy situation happening at the Zoo.
It seems hungry people are raiding it taking monkeys and snakes for food.

9
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 10, 2017, 02:19:47 PM »
A bit of GFS perspective on tiny Keys and big storms here;
(changes underwear)

10
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 09, 2017, 08:50:58 PM »
"Touch of good news...eyewall of Cat. 4 #Jose missed #Irma ravaged #Barbuda. (Radar: MeteoFrance)"

Thanks Sigmetnow for that.
Some crazy speculations about José aren't helping so far.
Hopefully some sort of sense of security now can be seen in this area on the islands.
What concerns me along with the rest so far is the situation on St. Maarten, involving the shortages and abandonment.
Very good news no double hit for them and Barbuda.

11
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 09, 2017, 11:52:12 AM »
A plea for help from a St. Maarten resident, one of many.
José will have to make quite a turn to avoid Barbuda and possibly St. Maarten.
Nailbiting stuff.

Emile van der Weerd;
18 uur ·
Please try to get this in the news!!! Sept 11. Post Hurricane update: island is still in chaos, people are not poorly/not informed by government officials, no clear communication channels, no cars with megaphones trying to inform, help and advice, no water supply, no food supply, all supermarkets are compromised and empty by now. Although we see some marines at critical road junctions, security and safety is a major potential issue. People will do anything to get foods and water, even if this means to rob houses!! This WILL happen if we don't get more help from police/marines. They need to secure entrances of all areas and resorts!! It's also adviced to have food packages air drops from airplanes. The sooner, the better. Also I don't see any help from medical care and advice on how to deal with sanitair and waste, this WILL CAUSE epidemics if not managed and controlled. Is not clear to all (who dont have communication) what the next Hurricane José is about and how to prepare. We try to spread the news because due to all the debris, broken houses and expected heavy rain, this can be even worst than Irma. About us: we are still good and we will be for at least another week due to good supply. I am helping neighbours with their houses, safety and information distribution. I am trying to get hold of government to see if I can help organizing and prioritising. If someone reeds this, I have all the skills and spirit, I want to do MORE to help the people of Sint Maarten. I try to be online every day around this time so please PM me. With good spirit and Hugs for now and again, know I am triving and excelling in these situation.

12
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 09, 2017, 10:25:59 AM »
It is almost surprising how there was a brief moment when Irma wasn't causing major damage.
Now Cuba's turn is up...
There is a little place called Ragged Island that just took the worst Irma has to offer.
Population 72, all descendants from original settlers apparently.
I can't imagine much is left of it by now if anything.

13
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 08, 2017, 08:45:47 PM »
USGS quakes and faultlines.

14
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 08, 2017, 08:39:54 PM »
Sigmetnow; a quake was shown by USGS between Puerto Rico/Hispaniola right where Irma passed and destroyed.
Interestingly, that fault runs straight to the Chiapas 8.1....


15
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 08, 2017, 08:30:13 PM »
Daniel B.;  Models appear to graze Cuba, which would indeed suck up some of Irma's energy.
Main island Bahamas as well, to their misfortune.
Then there is a bit of potential again as she nears Florida and not much buffers.
I ain't betting on anything but the models...good luck to all.

16
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 08, 2017, 08:13:17 PM »
Gerontocrat; yes, especially Barbuda it seems.
Dutch navy is saying they might move away for José from St. Maarten to keep the ships safe.
Pussies if you ask me.
The marines on St. Maarten now are tolerating looting of food/water and also theft until more help arrives.
They are said to number around 40 now and José might impede reïnforcement.
1 airplane only has been active and criticism of the Dutch government is increasing as citizens report shooting and gangs with machetes etc.
Although overall impression is not violent and chaos yet, potential is there it seems.
Dutch had better get off their ass IMHO.

17
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 08, 2017, 07:27:07 PM »
Reports trickling in from Virgin Islands have recorded wind speed at 360 kmph, or 224 mph.
That would be a record?
Wow, and expectations are this wench Irma has not shown us her worst yet.
I don't see much from Turks, Caicos, Bahamas yet but it was a little less heavy there, more vulnerable though it appears.
Florida may well record an unfathomably even stronger wind with all the monitoring equipment present.

18
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 08, 2017, 06:42:44 PM »
Landfall per GFS, sunday.
Everglades has the moisture and temperature Irma thrives on it seems.
Far inland, nice and shallow.
Beckwith mentioned water on land recently before this outlook, in relation to landfall of cyclonic storms.
If it is significant here is the optimal test case i guess.

19
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 07, 2017, 12:58:37 PM »
Yeah everyone, be careful out there and don't underestimate the threat.
In the meantime here's a good laugh;

Check out this beautiful luxury resort in St. Maarten on sale at Sotheby's for a mere 17 million US dollars.
You can rent it for 20,000 bucks a night.
Owner: Donald Trump
http://www.sothebysrealty.com/eng/sales/detail/180-l-3989-qz6f4w/chateau-des-palmiers-terres-basses-mi-97150

Next up; Mar a Lago
Oh sweet irony.....

20
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 07, 2017, 11:30:20 AM »
It seems FPL is planning 2 more reactors at Turkey Point as well because it's nice "clean energy".
Hmm, we shall see i s'pose...maybe someone can put a webcam up there quick and we can see even better.
Dutch newspaper reporting 8 dead in St. Maarten now and looting in progress.
90% buildings damaged/destroyed, at least 60% homeless.
Dutch navy/marines arriving today with priority to reopen the airport for relief efforts.
I don't see much news from the Virgin Islands yet.
It looks very grim especially for Turks & Caicos/Bahamas next.

21
Consequences / Re: Wildfires
« on: September 06, 2017, 09:34:35 AM »
Not much info on South America but the situation seems equally bad.


22
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: September 04, 2017, 03:57:19 PM »
With GFS too inaccurate still for giving more details about the US East coast scenario with Irma, it is becoming more likely Cuba will be struck all over pretty much.
It would be nice if she left Haïti alone...

23
Consequences / Re: Floods
« on: August 15, 2017, 04:47:02 PM »
Sierra Leone death toll 300+ now and 600 missing they are reporting here.
Indeed !!!
The reason given is...well i always loved the simplicity of this little cartoon here.

25
Consequences / Re: Effects of Climate Change on the biosphere
« on: August 01, 2017, 07:15:11 AM »
Beckwith has some new videos discussing the book "Scale" and several related papers.

https://youtu.be/0oCfy5SU-_4

"For every 18 F (10 C) rise in temperature the metabolic rate doubles & thus the rate of living (pace of life) doubles.

The Paris agreement aims for a maximum 2 C (3.6 F) temperature rise, yet this change leads to a 20% to 30% increase in metabolic rate, and thus also growth & mortality rates. This is mind-boggling. The pace of almost all biological life across all size scales increases 20 to 30% from just a 2 C temperature rise.

This will wreak havoc on ecosystems; in fact the entire planetary ecology. Including global food supply."

Interesting stuff, i'm sure there will be controversy...

26
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: August 01, 2017, 07:06:45 AM »
Nullschool is projecting a severe blow for south Japan 6 days from now.


27
Consequences / Re: What can BLUE do for YOU?
« on: July 24, 2017, 08:36:12 AM »
I suspect < 1 million square km of ice will still leave room for denial, given there are no other major events.
And indeed a louder call for action to go along with that.
The overpopulation crowd will rant about population etc etc.
The IPCC will be blamed i'm sure.
But mostly people will adhere to business as usual, what else do they know after all?

28
Consequences / Re: Hurricane season 2017
« on: July 22, 2017, 06:19:06 PM »
Hurricane Train fizzling out, Typhoon Express on the way?

An impressive sight to see.

I believe there have recently now been 7 hurricanes forming in the northeast Pacific, 4 visible here with the strongest closer to Hawaii.
But the relatively low SSTA appears to protect the islands so far as they weaken.

The same cannot be said for Japan/Phillipines etc on the other side where much of the water is above 30 C.
3 much larger rotations building and getting awful close.

29
Consequences / Re: Wildfires
« on: July 20, 2017, 01:33:04 PM »
BC looks bad indeed.
Highlighted the carbon monoxide here in Yosemite, with 3 major hotspots in North America at the moment.

30
Science / Re: Exiting The Anthropocene
« on: July 17, 2017, 10:57:21 AM »
What most of us describe as the anthropocene, i call the industrialicene.
We concern ourselves about the industrial impact on the living planet 99% of the time and blame humanity.
To a much lesser degree we recognize the impact of a once dominant agrarian society, such as deforestation in Europe.
The problems were still nothing compared to modern day.
To absolutely no degree at all we recognize the fact how hunter gatherers lived for millions of years sustainable and still do, human or not.
The best example being North Sentinel island, which is a pea-sized speck in the ocean but has a estimated history of at least 60.000 years human occupation by hunter gatherers.
We would book a holiday there for it still looks like paradise except they would likely shoot an arrow up your butt.
They are humans, but not responsible for the so called "anthropocene".
They watch our industrial crap wash up on the beaches.
Industry is the dominant force on Earth not humans.
Industrialicene......



31
Antarctica / Re: Rift in Larsen C
« on: July 15, 2017, 07:40:20 PM »
Here is 'just the rift end' at 106%.  From the June 8 post's scale, the rift at its end is about 1/2 km wide. Now looking forward to all the 'little' icebergs that we were 'promised'!

Cool image.
The chunk of ice in the middle shows it came from above so there must be a surface flow heading south.
Some slushy ice entering the crack as well further indicates that.
The little map posted above has the currents heading north however.
Guess not at the surface...

32
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« on: July 15, 2017, 07:16:10 PM »
I guess for the sake of being complete regarding the above posts, the Nullschool SSTA of today belongs here too.
Such a cool tool it is.
I used to make similar interactive apps but this one takes the cake.
The "cold blob" south of Greenland and Gulfstream are doing interesting stuff so i thought i'd include some of that too.

33
Permafrost / Re: Arctic Methane Release
« on: July 02, 2017, 12:44:31 PM »
Not sure if this was already posted in another topic perhaps, but it is well worth reading;
Interview by Nick Breeze with Dr Natalia Shakhova and Dr Igor Semiletov, a very good job by all.

http://envisionation.co.uk/index.php/nick-breeze/203-subsea-permafrost-on-east-siberian-arctic-shelf-now-in-accelerated-decline

Shahkova deserves a lot of respect IMHO for her dedication to research.
My favourite quote being when she was asked about geo engineering:
"If you don't understand the climate situation, how can you engineer it?"

34
Permafrost / Re: Siberian permafrost hole/blowout
« on: July 02, 2017, 09:55:36 AM »
2 new craters being reported today, accompanied by explosions and fire.
Photos and video in the article here:

http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/big-bang-and-pillar-of-fire-as-latest-of-two-new-craters-forms-this-week-in-arctic/

35
Consequences / Re: Places becoming less livable
« on: June 30, 2017, 04:33:28 PM »
Weather alarm has been issued for Turkey, Greece, Macedonia & Bulgaria the coming days.
45 C expected or more in Turkey, Bulgaria expected to have anomalies of 20 C too warm.
Records breaking or tied seems possible, further east maybe as well.
Rajasthan, India i.e. will come close to 50 C.
Current Rajasthan record is 51 C.

36
Arctic sea ice / Re: What's new in the Arctic ?
« on: June 28, 2017, 01:11:12 PM »
Some rather interesting SSTA areas around the Pole today caught my eye on Nullschool.
Corresponding air temperature being 0,1 Celsius at the highlighted location.
Something's cooking below...maybe a cook on a nuclear submarine  ;)


37
Consequences / Re: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD
« on: June 25, 2017, 09:46:00 AM »
Belgian government is to decide this week if the current drought affected growing season should be treated as a natural disaster.
A very dry start in this area of Europe so far, topped off with a record heat wave the past weeks has expectations for crops such as peas or spinach etc to be very poor also in the Netherlands.
French wheat production affected similar to the US situation as well.

Another drought/heat wave may well follow, but perhaps prolonged periods of rain can cause other problems yet such as root disease and rotting.
With climate affecting other parts of the world too, one can notice availability of produce diminishing in daily life and shopping now.
More empty spaces in the supermarket or big price increases...

38
Consequences / Re: Population: Public Enemy No. 1
« on: June 19, 2017, 03:42:06 PM »
IMHO calling population numbers the nr. 1 cause of all those nasty problems on Earth, climate, pollution and so on is a mistake.
Clearly these population numbers exploded along with the other problems as a result of industrialization, look up the graph, it is easy to see.
Do non-industrial folks overpopulate, pollute, destroy biodiversity and so on like we do?
No they usually don't, people on a shitty little island such as North Sentinel have a 60,000 year track record and the place still looks like paradise...60,000 years, let that sink in compared to our industrial society.
"Anthropocene Global Warming" is a faulty name as well for this reason.
Should be Industrial Global Warming....

39
Consequences / Re: Ocean Temps
« on: June 12, 2017, 08:26:39 AM »

40
Arctic sea ice / Re: Stupid Questions :o
« on: June 10, 2017, 09:35:42 AM »
The wildfire situation has been pretty mind blowing, so i am wondering what would be a good tool or website to keep track of places such as Siberia or North America.
I see Nullschool has an option for displaying sulfur dioxide levels.
Would it be correct to assume a relationship between depicted SO2 and the fires?

41
So Donald is pulling out today...and the Europeans or Chinese are not pleased i.e.
Makes me wonder though if others will start renegotiating and doing similar things.

42
Consequences / Re: 2017 ENSO
« on: June 01, 2017, 12:08:00 PM »
Than you for these updates Abrupt!

43
Greenland and Arctic Circle / Re: What's new in Greenland?
« on: May 11, 2017, 05:51:41 PM »
High temperatures up to 6.2 C now between Hudson and Baffin bay.
With southwestern Greenland still above freezing as well.


44
Before 2020 i would say like many others here, so no vote sorry ;)

Based on the whole myriad of feedbacks of course and things mentioned earlier, but also based on what we do NOT know and understand.

As Shakova mentioned before:"How can people discuss geoengineering in context to climate when we do not understand climate yet? "
Her own research area is minute when you think about it...

But also there is the "X-factor", for lack of a better term.
What effect will the death of every forest biome, kelp forest, reefs etc have?
What else are we forgetting as AGW smacks us in the face regularly with unexpectedly bad news?
I would mention the utter stupidity and addiction of industrial society for one:

This is easy to see in my city in The Netherlands where a full scale attack on nature has been launched.
Whatever needs to happen for climate and nature, they do the opposite.
It does not matter our air is the filthiest in Europe and there is hardly a tree left standing.
It does not matter how many highly endangered species my own research turns up, they destroy them faster and slander, hack or threaten us with corruption winning all the way.

I would therefore also argue that "Anthropocene global warming" is a ridiculous term.
Do we study and monitor climate change since the arrival of hominids or even Homo sapiens?
NO, we look at the industrial age and for good reason.
Clearly it should be named Industrial Global Warming.

Besides, the brave non-industrialized humans deserve the respect not being included in that blame game anyway, we are screwed...

45
The rest / Re: 2017 open thread
« on: February 28, 2017, 04:46:27 PM »
"We" discuss problems and solutions from a limited perspective i fear.
"We" overpopulate, pollute, and warm the planet.
"We" think of techno fixes which fall short and bring new dillemas.
"We" discuss the elite etc etc.

Do we really?
No, not those of us who have remained outside of industrial society, and arguably to a lesser degree agrarian society.
And that would be some staggering percentage, like 99.9% of anything that has ever lived on Earth.
Yet "we"can't even see their fine example, we destroy them as well and choose for over complication and denial.
Like knowing you took a wrong turn in the road and are heading off course but imagine finding a hitherto unknown new path that will magically lead to your destination.

It is quit obvious we need to get rid of industrial society, go back where you took the wrong turn.
"But you would have us all be cavemen again and we would not live past 35 years old!"
That would be the usual reply, which is nonsense as is clearly visible in hunter gatherers today still.
One needs not copy their customs, clothing, attire or language, and yes they do grow old too.

What is their nature, what is it they do?
They occupy themselves looking after primary needs and culture.
They don't require exponential destruction and depletion of environment.
Industrial society however can do nothing else, that is it's nature.

The primary benefit of hunter/gatherer lifestyle is the de facto limit on density.  We broke from that limit with agriculture, some 6000 years ago.  Further density of human population comes from that industrial society you decry. 

Your touted primitive lifestyle is not in fact a fix for overuse of natural resources.  A good read perhaps is Jared Diamond's Collapse:  How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed.  You will find examples of pre-industrial ecological catastrophes.

Of course we can solve all the problems by limiting humankind to a small percentage of our current population.  Implementation may be a bit tricky.

No.  The future is forward, not backwards, however frightening that may be.

Which is why i made the point of:
a:not mistaking hunter-gatherers for extinct, they are not.
b:learning by example and moving forwards by adapting to it, and not copying behaviour literally from the past or present.
c: exploding population in humans directly resulting from industrialization, not vice versa.
 just as 90% of other problems we see. Warming, greenhouse gases for example is measured from a pre-industrial baseline for that reason as well of course.

46
The rest / Re: 2017 open thread
« on: February 27, 2017, 07:20:14 PM »
"We" discuss problems and solutions from a limited perspective i fear.
"We" overpopulate, pollute, and warm the planet.
"We" think of techno fixes which fall short and bring new dillemas.
"We" discuss the elite etc etc.

Do we really?
No, not those of us who have remained outside of industrial society, and arguably to a lesser degree agrarian society.
And that would be some staggering percentage, like 99.9% of anything that has ever lived on Earth.
Yet "we"can't even see their fine example, we destroy them as well and choose for over complication and denial.
Like knowing you took a wrong turn in the road and are heading off course but imagine finding a hitherto unknown new path that will magically lead to your destination.

It is quit obvious we need to get rid of industrial society, go back where you took the wrong turn.
"But you would have us all be cavemen again and we would not live past 35 years old!"
That would be the usual reply, which is nonsense as is clearly visible in hunter gatherers today still.
One needs not copy their customs, clothing, attire or language, and yes they do grow old too.

What is their nature, what is it they do?
They occupy themselves looking after primary needs and culture.
They don't require exponential destruction and depletion of environment.
Industrial society however can do nothing else, that is it's nature.


47
Arctic sea ice / Re: Stupid Questions :o
« on: November 05, 2016, 05:33:43 PM »
Hi P-Maker,

I meant no offence and did try to read relevant topics, there is a lot out there.
I would agree already the "event"is not a correct description at all.
Thank you for your perspective on the "after" and also the "blue".
This would make a lot of sense indeed.

Thanks for the link which i will certainly check out.
As the other points you mentioned, and perhaps get back later as you suggest.


48
Arctic sea ice / Blue Ocean
« on: November 04, 2016, 03:43:58 PM »
Hello all from a new member, thought i'd start here :)

I have a question concerning Blue Ocean Event.
Not the effects on the global weather etc, but a 2-prong question concerning before and after sea ice behaviour;

Before:
I gather melting of the sea ice will happen at accelerated pace.
Supposedly the last sea ice will disappear very fast, poof it's gone.
Any more specific models or study on this?
At what point of total sea ice volume left perhaps, do we really expect things to unravel
exponentially?

After:
I hear people say how after the first blue ocean in the Arctic, it will take 10 years of
refreezing less and less before finally in winter even nothing will remain.
Really???
Watching the current 2016-2017 refreeze so out of whack this seems hardly believable.
Add in some feedback loops...to a layperson i cant imagine 10 years of refreeze happening.
Feels more like we'd be lucky to have 1 winter with ice after that or 2 perhaps...

Any thoughts welcome.

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