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The rest / Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Last post by Neven on March 29, 2017, 10:44:06 PM »
So, maybe I'm wrong to do this, but I get a lot of my information from the Jimmy Dore Show, as I mostly trust comedians, because if they're funny, they're usually smart and take different perspectives on purpose because that's how comedy works.

I also watch some The Young Turks and vloggers like Sane Progressive (can't watch for very long, but she almost always makes good points) and Secular Talk, but mostly The Jimmy Dore show.

Now Jimmy Dore keeps repeating the same things about the problem of Corporate Democrats and how they are mostly to blame for the current political situation in the US, and so I will be posting his videos here that I think are most pertinent to the thread subject.

Today there's a really good one on a letter that Franklin Delano Roosevelt wanted to send to the Democratic National Convention, and how what he writes there, applies to the current situation (click the 'no longer available' link at the bottom if the video doesn't show up) :

! No longer available
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The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Last post by Neven on March 29, 2017, 10:38:30 PM »
I have decided to open a new thread to discuss the problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out.
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The rest / The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Last post by Neven on March 29, 2017, 10:36:31 PM »
Okay, I've been having these ongoing discussions in the Trump thread, even though I perhaps shouldn't (I'm not American and I don't have the time or the knowledge to give such a discussion the attention it deserves), but I'm just constantly frustrated to see how people fall into this groupthink that is mainly served up by mainstream media and focuses on any spectacle that turns the attention away from the real problem: The iron hold of corporations on American politics.

Of course, we all know how effed up the Republican Party and how they lie and cheat people, while serving the interests of the military-industrial complex, Big Fossil, Big Agro, and so on.  The problem is that the Democratic Party isn't any better. In fact, I would say it's even worse, because these Corporate Democrats act as if they represent the opposite of the Republican Party and are the party of the (working) people, whereas in fact, they too mostly serve the interests of Wall Street, Big Pharma and the military-industrial complex and so on.

And that's how you get Trump. First, he ate the Republican presidential candidates' lunch and won the primaries (with the help, as it turned out, from Clinton and her mainstream media network) and then he clinched victory away from the vastly unpopular Clinton who paid millions and millions for ads, outspending Trump 2:1, mostly smearing Trump instead of presenting ideas and inspiring people to come and vote for her. It was an absolute strategic disaster, so bad that I sometimes think they did it on purpose.

The problem is now that everyone is so anti-Trump that they're unwilling to look at how all this came about, and unwilling to try and change that, while taking on Trump at the same time. It's all Trump, Trump, Trump. That's the current message from the Democratic Party: We're not Trump. No ideas, no vision, no values, just 'We're not Trump'.

By constantly focussing on Trump's character and things like Russian influences (McCarthyism all over again, never mind the beam in thine eye) things are probably set up in such a way that Trump stays firmly in power and the Republicans keep their majority. And even if they don't, it's the Corporate Democrats that get some power back again to serve special interests again. So, corporations and rich people win either way.

What I and others have tried to make clear in the Trump thread is that some of that energy channeled towards Trump, needs to be use to either start a third party (which is very difficult) or sweep the Democratic Party clean, and get some true progressives in that can win back the trust of the people.

And so I've opened this separate thread to try and discuss with others to see if they agree, and if not, why not and what should happen instead. Why choose to die from the lesser poison, if the end result is the same?
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The forum / Re: Arctic Sea Ice Forum Humor
« Last post by LRC1962 on March 29, 2017, 10:04:40 PM »
Late-night TV roasts Trump on climate: he 'surrendered Florida to the ocean'
Trump's Climate Change Rollback Reviewed By Woodsy The Owl

Seth Myers take on Trump:
During a press conference. Sean Spicer’s response to a question about Russia was to blame the press for making links that aren’t there. He claimed that if Trump used Russian dressing on a salad, people would see it as a connection. “The most suspicious thing about that scenario is the idea that Trump would eat a salad,” he said.

Edit: Took a few tries and googling before I found the change https to http advice.
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Antarctica / Re: Thwaites Glacier Discussion
« Last post by maga on March 29, 2017, 09:10:55 PM »
Yes, the tongue is the same. And it lost a few icebergs since 2012. But the big one marked as new iceberg in your September 2012 picture was already gone by December (it might actually still be visible in the top left corner under the cloud). The detailed pictures can be found at:
http://nsidc.org/data/iceshelves_images/cgi-bin/modis_iceshelf_archive.pl
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The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Last post by ivica on March 29, 2017, 08:54:05 PM »
Needless to say, I'm with Zeug Gezeugt on this one...

Please, count me in   :)   
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The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Last post by Neven on March 29, 2017, 08:41:03 PM »
So whether you are from Austria or Australia you only have a few options if you are convinced both the Dems and the Republicans are equally evil.
Danger close
Boycott us, sanction us, or bomb us
Travel bans, revoke our visas, and figure out how to pay for the U.N. And NATO without us. It is of course either a Dem or a Republican , actually both, that help fund those programs. Maybe money does buy loyalty but if both branches of our government are hopelessly corrupt the entire world citizenry needs to unify against us.
 I am a Dem by the way and I don't believe the Republicans and the Dems are the same but if that is how it looks to the rest of the world I would suggest you respond in some meaningful way. I also think bombing us would be very counterproductive so you really have only monetary options.

I have started a Forum where I tell my American friends that everything they say about Trump is true, but it's really important that they realize that the main reason Trump is in power, is because of Corporate Democrat shenanigans. These neoliberals would obviously rather lose from Republicans and Trumpians than win with a true progressive like Bernie Sanders. They don't stand for anything, only for vague feel-good rhetoric that doesn't put off their corporate donors. They use the same tactics as Republicans and they take the working people for granted, without representing their best interests. It's an absolute disgrace. The neocons and neolibs are the same. There's no difference.

Now, if I can convince enough of my American friends that Trump is more of a consequence than a root cause, that it's not the Russians or the deplorables that put Trump there, but the insane tactic of putting up a candidate who was unpopular beyond belief (and with good reason!), shutting out the true progressive who actually stood for something instead of mudslinging and smearing the crazy Republican candidate (that they put in the spotlight together with their mainstream media cronies!), and losing the House, the Senate and almost every position on the federal level because the neoliberals (led by the Clintons and Obama) offer nothing but empty rhetoric, and are mostly interested in serving the interests of Wall Street, Big Pharma and the fossil fuel industry, then maybe my American friends will rally behind a real cause instead of the propaganda that is spoon-fed to them by the mainstream media, and turn this monster around (not right away, but a couple of years from now).

It's very difficult to start up a third party and Sanders clearly isn't planning on doing so (although I think he could if he wanted to), and so the Democratic Party needs to be cleaned up first and the neoliberals kicked out. Why there aren't riots after the street after Tom Perez is made head of the DNC instead of Keith Ellison, is a mystery to me.

My hope is that this is more effective than sanctioning, boycotting or bombing 'you', because there is no 'you', there is only 'us', just like the 1% aren't hampered by borders whatsoever and let their money fuck over everybody, including their own people. Russia vs USA, EU vs USA, Russia vs EU, it's all divide and conquer based on old thinking and conditioning.

This whole Russia-thing is drawing away the attention from the things that really matter. It's a circus, a spectacle to rile everybody up the wrong away and keep people of good will divided.

Sorry for bombing you with this cluster-rant. Don't boycott me.  ;)

I'll be watching some Jimmy Dore Show tonight and if I feel he explains some of the things that I just tried to, I'll post a link.
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The rest / Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Last post by Buddy on March 29, 2017, 08:37:05 PM »
Sally Yates may testify to the Senate committee on the Russian election tampering.  If so...that may be sometime next week:

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/donald-trump-and-devin-nunes-cant-stop-sally-yates-from-testifying-for-senate-intel-committee/2094/
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Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« Last post by Andre on March 29, 2017, 08:24:26 PM »
romett1, thanks for posting the GFS anomalies+forecast. It seems that every time I look at the table the forecast a few days out shows the anomaly lessening. But every time you post an update the anomaly stays high. Is it just my imagination? Or is the GFS underestimating the forecast anomaly?

Fully agreed! I really enjoy your regular contribution romett1 and hope you will keep it up. It is easy to lose sight of the daily values, when watching the animation, which makes me appreciate your concise table format even more! Thanks for the regular updates!
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Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« Last post by Lord M Vader on March 29, 2017, 07:56:13 PM »
While this stuff might belong to the frezzing thread, I think it's a valuable view for the upcoming melting season.

Here is Zack Labe's tweet from today which shows how the temperature anomalies for October to December have evolved from 1979 and onward. Hat tip to him! :) I think we'll see a shift in the future to March being the coldest month during winter as polar amplification will continue and worsen.

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