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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #200 on: February 11, 2016, 06:16:41 PM »
Tesla is sending out Powerwall installation surveys to people who requested the product after its unveiling in May 2015.
Quote
In its shareholders letter published yesterday, Tesla confirmed that inbound sales leads for the Powerwall are quickly exceeding vehicle sales leads and its more than doubling the company’s total potential customer inquiries. ...

The survey is asking for general information about where the installation will take place, if there are solar panels at the residence and electricity usage.
http://electrek.co/2016/02/11/tesla-powerwall-installation-survey/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #201 on: February 16, 2016, 01:26:37 PM »
Tesla and Panasonic are leading the almost 100 GWh of new li-ion battery cell production to come online by 2020
http://electrek.co/2016/02/16/tesla-panasonic-100-gwh-battery/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #202 on: February 17, 2016, 03:34:54 AM »
As utilities pare back the benefits of tying residential solar to the grid, battery storage and energy management software make it increasingly possible to build off-grid arrangements.

Battery-Based Energy Trading: Next Step After Reverse Metering?
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Consumers with home solar power can already use reverse metering to sell excess power back to utilities.

But the ability to store energy in battery packs may also allow them to sell that power to third parties, through a process called "energy trading."

In theory, this could allow consumers to sell electricity directly to each other, and leave utilities out of the loop. One company is already taking a step in that direction.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102380_battery-based-energy-trading-next-step-after-reverse-metering
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #203 on: February 17, 2016, 03:40:34 AM »
SolarCity announces that it will use Tesla Energy’s Powerpack for its massive 52 MWh project in Hawaii
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The 52 MWh Tesla Powerpack lithium-ion battery storage system will feed up to 13 megawatts of electricity onto the grid to “shave” the amount of conventional power generation needed to meet peak demand in the evening from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m.

By using the solar energy stored in the battery instead of diesel generators, KIUC will reduce its use of imported fossil fuels and also cut its greenhouse gas emissions.

Under the terms of the 20-year contract announced in September 2015, KIUC will pay SolarCity 14.5 cents per kilowatt hour, only slightly more than the cost of energy from KIUC’s two existing 12 megawatt solar arrays, whose output is available only during the day.
http://electrek.co/2016/02/16/solarcity-tesla-energy-battery-packs-hawaii/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #204 on: February 21, 2016, 07:18:47 PM »
Fueled By Battery Boom: A Lithium Rush For Australia's Outback?
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Lithium from batteries generally comes from three sources--ore mined from the ground, battery recycling, and the evaporation of brine from salt ponds.

Of the two methods that don't involve recycling, mining is considered more expensive, but with lower costs in the area of capital spending, and quicker yields.

Most lithium harvested via the brine-evaporation method comes from Chile, where companies use solar-power plants in the country's deserts.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102463_fueled-by-battery-boom-a-lithium-rush-for-australias-outback
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #205 on: February 25, 2016, 12:54:34 AM »
Tesla Powerwall arrives in Germany – Memodo receives large shipment and cites high demand
Quote
“No new product launch in recent years has generated a similar demand in the market.”
http://electrek.co/2016/02/24/tesla-powerwall-germany-memodo/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #206 on: February 28, 2016, 05:02:10 PM »
Update on the Gigafactory.  "Production of Tesla Powerwall and Powerpack battery systems has already begun."

Flight Instructor Captures Stunning Tesla Gigafactory Photos
Quote
One of the most astonishing things about the Gigafactory is that, despite being one of the largest manufacturing facilities on earth, it is expected to be net zero and have no carbon emissions, according to technology chief JB Straubel.
http://www.teslarati.com/stunning-tesla-gigafactory-photos-captured-by-flight-instructor/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #207 on: March 01, 2016, 07:01:41 PM »
Faraday Future is granted a patent for a surprisingly small and powerful inverter
Quote
Electric vehicle startup Faraday Future (FF) applied for more than 100 patents over the last year and today it confirmed having been granted its first one. The patent covers a new assembly process for FF’s power inverter called “FF Echelon Inverter.”

The inverter is surprisingly small (see comparison pictures below) and FF claims it achieves 20-30% greater power density than their competitors’ applications. The company didn’t name any competitor in particular, but Tesla’s Model S inverter has a peak power capability of 320 kW.
http://electrek.co/2016/03/01/faraday-future-patent-inverter/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #208 on: March 08, 2016, 04:21:22 AM »
South Korea becomes host to world-leading energy storage system
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A major energy storage project in Seoul, South Korea, is now host to the world's largest lithium ion energy storage system for frequency regulation, following the installation of a 24MW battery system at the site.

The sizeable system, which was unveiled today by its manufacturers Kokam, was installed alongside a new 16MW storage system, taking the total capacity at the site to 56MW.

Both systems have been operational since January 2016, allowing South Korea's largest utility, Korea Electric Power Corporation (KEPCO) to manage demand on the grid without resorting to spinning power generation reserves - the extra generation capacity available by increasing the power output of existing generators.
http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2449805/south-korea-becomes-host-to-world-leading-energy-storage-system
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andy_t_roo

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #209 on: March 08, 2016, 01:14:00 PM »
talking about energy density in inverters;
typical solar inverters run at ~5w/cubic in

google ran a competition, with a top prize of $1 million for an inverter with a power density of more than 50w/in3

the winners turned in a 143 w/in3 inverter (2kw in 14 in3).

http://googleresearch.blogspot.com.au/2016/02/and-winner-of-1-million-little-box.html

I guess this means that there is still quite a way to go in power engineering, it's more a lack of demand that has been holding us back ...

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #210 on: March 09, 2016, 02:18:00 PM »
Manufacturing -- with a net zero energy goal.

Will human hands ever touch Tesla Gigafactory battery cells?
http://electrek.co/2016/03/09/will-human-hands-ever-touch-tesla-gigafactory-battery-cells/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #211 on: March 13, 2016, 03:03:54 PM »
"Software-defined power plants" -  H/t to sidd in the Renewables thread.

Quote
“The cost to put in a VPP, software that can dispatch and control distributed resources as if they were conventional generation, is a fraction of the cost of building a new power plant, or putting in peaker plants. Plus the utility doesn’t have to buy new hardware, they can use [a] scalable cloud based solutions, there are no emissions, they have it distributed across their grid, so its not limited to one place.”
...
“The overarching trend that we’ve seen is more solar, wind, storage, thermostats, lighting we’ve seen a lot of distributed energy resources added to the grid. Then we’ve seen as those resources are getting deployed, sometimes the utility is happy about it, sometimes they’re not, we’ve seen the role of utilities is changing from just a supplier of a flow of electrons to service providers who have this responsibility for dealing with this intermittency that’s produced by renewables and managing the grid to ensure optimal meeting of supply and demand,” Chew said.
http://www.energy-storage.news/news/software-defined-power-plant-to-integrate-multiple-dg-sources-into-dutch-gr


And why that solution is less than obvious in the U.S.:
Quote
While the Software-Defined Power Plant concept seems like a no-brainer for large companies in any market, there are likely significant regulatory hurdles that would prevent (or at least significantly complicate) efforts to commercialize the concept in the United States. In particular, unlike the Netherlands, the market rules used to determine the price distributed generators pay for using the transmission and distribution grid in most regions of the U.S. are either punitive, non-existent or ambiguous – and sometimes all three.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2015/11/13/autogrid-systems-strikes-deal-with-dutch-energy-provider-for-software-defined-power-plant/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #212 on: March 15, 2016, 02:33:38 PM »
Renault and partners plan a “solar smart-charging” project with 150 ZOE EVs
Quote
The first phase of the project would see installation of up to 1,000 22 kW smart solar-charge stations powered by 10,000 solar PV panels. Renault and its partners also hint at a possible car-sharing program with the fleet of 150 EVs.
...
“Phase two of the project would proceed with the partners developing a vehicle-to-grid ecosystem, with the network of solar chargers capable of both charging the electric cars and of feeding energy stored in the batteries of parked cars onto the grid to meet demand peaks. This could be the starting point for a new system storing renewably sourced energy.”
http://electrek.co/2016/03/14/renault-solar-smart-charge-zoe/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #213 on: March 17, 2016, 08:26:17 PM »
India Looks to Battery Storage to Supplement Its Solar Boom
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For the first time ever, India is putting out the call for energy storage developers.

The state-run Solar Energy Corporation of India (SECI) is seeking bids for a 750-megawatt solar park at Ananthapuramu in Andhra Pradesh. In order to supplement the massive series of projects, SECI is looking to procure 100 megawatts of storage capacity.

It’s a small step for solar storage in a country that currently has little capacity. But if batteries are regularly added to future tenders, it could add up to a large market, given India’s ambitious solar targets.
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/india-wants-more-battery-storage
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #214 on: March 19, 2016, 06:43:38 PM »
Here's our first look inside Tesla's Gigafactory
Quote
Inside the gigafactory was alive with activity. Giant robot arms assembled Tesla Energy Powerwalls and Powerpacks, office professionals tapped busily on keyboards and construction crews worked both inside and outside the sprawling concrete and steel structure.

So far, the building's footprint is 800,000 square feet with 1.9 million square feet of manufacturing space in four stories. It houses conference rooms, an open air office space, manufacturing rooms and a warehouse.
...
No lithium-ion battery cells are being manufactured at the site yet. Instead, they are shipped in from Tesla's Fremont, Calif., plant to be fitted inside Powerwalls and Powerpacks used for home storage, a Tesla spokesman said. Cell production, as well as the battery packs for the cars, are expected to begin this year

"We are just getting started," a Tesla spokesman said. "What you will be seeing is a lot of construction vs operations."
http://www.rgj.com/story/money/business/2016/03/18/get-sneek-peak-inside-teslas-reno-area-gigafactory/81978520/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #215 on: March 20, 2016, 01:46:52 AM »
Tesla confirmed having discontinued the 10 kWh Powerwall for backup power to focus on daily cycling version
Quote
“We have seen enormous interest in the Daily Powerwall worldwide,” according to a statement provided to GTM. “The Daily Powerwall supports daily use applications like solar self-consumption plus backup power applications, and can offer backup simply by modifying the way it is installed in a home. Due to the interest, we have decided to focus entirely on building and deploying the 7-kilowatt-hour Daily Powerwall at this time.”

At the original unveiling of its new home battery system, Tesla said that there would be two versions, a smaller capacity 7-kilowatt-hour model priced at $3000 and a 10-kilowatt-hour for $3500 — both for different purposes. The 10kWh battery was to be optimized for energy backup, while the 7kWh system is for daily use. Tesla seemingly suggests that the latter has received much more interest.

This news comes as just couple of months ago we learned that Tesla Motors is already planning to release a second generation Powerwall, its home energy storage system, sometime during summer of this year. During a recent exclusive event for Tesla owners in Paris, Elon Musk said that “version 2 of the Powerwall probably around July or August of this year” and that the new version “will see further step changes in capabilities.” It’s possible that Tesla is planning to reintroduce the 10kWh model later this year.
http://electrek.co/2016/03/19/tesla-discontinued-10-kwh-powerwall-backup-power/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #216 on: March 20, 2016, 01:01:56 PM »
"Now it appears that someone with better access leaked several pictures of Tesla’s Powerwall and Powerpack assembly line, and it’s awesome."    ;D

Quote
The pictures also show that Tesla is using the same modules for the Powerwall, its home battery pack, and the Powerpack, its battery pack for commercial or utility-scale projects.

The company seems to be using only 1 module in the Powerwall, which can hold 6.4 kWh of energy, and the Powerpack appears to be able to fit up to 16 of the same modules for up to 102.4 kWh. Previously, Tesla was referring to the Powerpack tower as a 100 kWh unit.
Leaked Tesla Gigafactory pictures show Powerwall/Powerpack assembly line and lots of units [Gallery]
http://electrek.co/2016/03/19/leaked-tesla-gigafactory-pictures-powerwall-powerpack/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #217 on: March 21, 2016, 05:05:31 PM »
Dyson:  $1.4 Billion Battery Tech Investment
Quote
The company said it expected to spend 100 million pounds over the next three years to acquire external technologies. This is in addition to the 5 million pounds a week it plans to spend on internal research and development.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-21/dyson-challenges-tesla-with-1-4-billion-battery-tech-investment
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #218 on: March 24, 2016, 08:24:36 PM »
From 2015:

Used Toyota Hybrid Batteries Repurposed At Yellowstone National Park
Quote
Even after they're no longer suitable for their original purpose, the battery packs from hybrids and electric cars can still be useful.

Battery energy-storage capacity diminishes over time, to the point where packs are no longer suitable for use in cars.

But after their automotive service lives are finished, battery packs often still have enough usable capacity for other applications.

Like, for example, powering a cluster of buildings in a remote part of Yellowstone National Park.

Used Toyota Camry Hybrid battery packs will now store energy generated from solar panels at the Lamar Buffalo Ranch field campus within the park.

The system includes 208 Camry Hybrid nickel-metal-hydride  battery packs recovered from Toyota dealers, providing a total of 85 kilowatt-hours of storage capacity.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098326_used-toyota-hybrid-batteries-repurposed-at-yellowstone-national-park
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #219 on: March 26, 2016, 12:30:56 PM »
"The most revolutionary thing one can do always is to proclaim loudly what is happening" - Rosa Luxemburg

Jim Hunt

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #220 on: March 26, 2016, 12:35:01 PM »
From 2016:

Used Toyota Hybrid Batteries Repurposed At Yellowstone National Park

Nissan’s New Office Will Be Electric Vehicle Powered

Quote
The new building will feature 100 vehicle-to-grid chargers, from Nissan’s partner ENEL, allowing Nissan’s range of EVs to plug in and draw down energy from the grid at off-peak periods with the ability to “sell back” the stored energy to the grid. It will also feature a 1 MWh energy storage system, from Nissan’s partner EATON, the battery storage experts, powered by 64 Nissan LEAF second life EV batteries combined with solar energy generation.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #221 on: April 09, 2016, 01:45:55 AM »
Tesla begins alerting 1st general US Powerwall customers, installations starting in June
Quote
After much delay, this week Powerwall representatives from Tesla began contacting owners who met certain criteria including early Powerwall reservations, solar already installed and already being current Tesla vehicle customers.
http://electrek.co/2016/04/08/tesla-begins-alerting-1st-general-us-powerwall-customers-installations-starting-in-june/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #222 on: April 11, 2016, 03:42:27 PM »
88% after 200 cycles is not good enough for most EVs, but keep at it!

Chinese researchers develop aluminum-graphite dual-ion battery
Quote
A team from the Shenzhen Institutes of Advanced Technology of the Chinese Academy of Sciences has developed a novel, environmentally friendly low-cost battery.

In “A Novel Aluminum-Graphite Dual-Ion Battery,” published in Advanced Energy Materials, Yongbing Tang and colleagues present a new aluminum-graphite dual-ion battery (AGDIB) that they say offers higher energy density than conventional LIBs, as well as reduced weight, volume, and fabrication cost.

The battery shows a reversible capacity of ~100 mAh g-1 and a capacity retention of 88% after 200 charge-discharge cycles. A packaged aluminum-graphite battery is estimated to deliver an energy density of ~150 Wh kg-1 at a power density of ~1200 W kg-1.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/chinese-researchers-develop-aluminum-graphite-dual-ion-battery/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #223 on: April 13, 2016, 02:04:12 AM »
Building expansion continues as battery production begins.

An early look at Elon Musk's Gigafactory, a building that could change the world
http://www.techinsider.io/elon-musk-tesla-gigafactory-drone-footage-2016-4

Link has a 4k video of drone overfly footage shot March 27, 2016.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #224 on: April 14, 2016, 04:28:05 PM »
Enel now reportedly offering $10,000 Tesla Powerwall and solar array package in South Africa
Quote
With South Africa’s electricity rates set to increase by 9.4% this year and the country’s unstable grid prone to outages, home energy storage systems are expected to become quite popular in the region. Tesla is aware of the opportunity and opened an office in the country earlier this year to develop the market for its ‘Tesla Energy’ products: the Powerwall and Powerpack.
...
The kit is not cheap. We are talking about ~$10,000 for a power inverter, lithium battery (Tesla Powerwall) and optional photovoltaic modules.
...
The system is connected to Enel’s platform and to the network of the state-owned utility Eskom Holdings SOC Ltd. It can schedule the charging sessions of the battery in order to have a full charge before the utility’s scheduled power cuts.
http://electrek.co/2016/04/14/enel-tesla-powerwall-africa/
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A-Team

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #225 on: April 14, 2016, 05:56:34 PM »
The problem with the powerwall is the 500 cycle limit. The market where power outages are frequent but lots of people are affluent is very limited. For the same money, you could get a very smart Sonnen energy center from Germany with 10 000 recharge cycles and do your own micro-grid with solar panels and neighbors.

We tried the Tesla-related Solar City for our residence -- they sent out a gum-chewing salesman whereas a locally based solar panel company sent out a licensed contractor with a college degree in electrical engineering. We climbed up on the garage roof, measured with a tape measure, and 10 minutes later had maxxed out a design which gets us totally off coal and nuclear with 21 x 315 watt LG panels. (We use 15 000 kwh per year, 900-1800 monthly extremes.) There was surprisingly little to be gained from optimally orienting the panels. The ROI was still a respectable 10 years though not a big factor in deciding to go forward.

We went with micro-inverters, one per panel to get AC on a parallel circuit, rather than a high DC current to a single expensive point of failure. LG makes a 360 watt panel of the same dimensions but there is no proven micro-inverter for it yet.

The system was very affordable and includes a free monitoring device for each circuit in our electrical panel. This goes online through our existing household router. [[Please do not hack the refrigerator, we like the beer cold over here.]]

We learned that our 1.5 horsepower pump on the pool filter makes up a preposterous proportion of our yearly electric use, an 1100 watt light bulb running 8 hours a day. It came with the house, along with a gigantic propane tank to heat the water, but sees only occasional use. It could be made a wildlife pond but we already have 4 of those. The pool pump was not the only low-hanging fruit on the energy audit, the living room door had a terrible seal etc.

A solar system is all plug-and-play today, no more difficult than plugging a mouse cord into the back of a computer. I could have ordered a shipping container of panels online and done the installation cheaper myself. However there are issues with the numerous permits required and whether the homeowner has the necessary qualifications (eg roof is not supposed to leak after installing mounts, panels should not blow off in high winds).

Our local utility fears distributed solar will disrupt its lazy business model and works tirelessly at rate hearings to bring on punitive retroactive tariffs. Mind you, this is a member-owned electric cooperative, not a for-profit entity though I can't recall our input ever being solicited.

I had not appreciated the significance of summer vs winter vs year-average power consumption. To completely get rid of the utility means installing too many panels, enough to meet peak use will sit idle most of the year however much battery storage. However we can go with more panels, Sonnen batteries and consumption reduction if the utility clings to its antisocial path.

The utility sent us a 28-page form of terms and conditions that our installation has to satisfy. Some of it makes sense, to keep people from loading all sorts of rubbish on the power lines that will degrade the system with fluctuations in voltages and hertz that annoy or even bring down the neighbors. There are also serious safety issues involving first responders to house fires, malfunctioning equipment over the years, and auto-disconnects from lightning strikes.

Our solar company installs one system after another, 2-3 a week, year after year, so they don't put up with nonsense from the utilities and inspectors. We would have done this years ago had we known about them. Doing a web search had proven a real time-waster, so many rip-offs and charlatans that are a gamble for a 25-year system; we only learned about our company from another homeowner during a garden tour.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 06:17:59 PM by A-Team »

Neven

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #226 on: April 14, 2016, 06:08:58 PM »
Cool stuff, A-Team.

A battery system is still on my list, bit a bit further down for the moment. I have to gather more data about our monthly energy use and do another winter of testing.
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #227 on: April 14, 2016, 07:21:58 PM »
Prior to a visit from the solar company, they want you to go through the last 12 months of bills and put the usage in a spreadsheet with averages and extremes.

Over here, an ever-growing chunk of the bill is the base monthly charge just for keeping an account open. That has to be paid even if you flip all the circuit breakers off for a month while on vacation. I carved this out of the bill and only considered actual electric consumption, which is 0.12¢ per kwh here (from 7 coal burners and the Palo Verde nuclear plant upwind of Phoenix).

Next up, once each of the 11 circuits is separately monitored, is adding eleven more columns to the spreadsheet. This monitoring updates your online graph at 5 minute intervals so you know both how much and when, along with your solar input into the grid at those times.

In most areas, electric rates are tiered to time of day, typically much more expensive at times of peaking kw demand. That should be folded in to an additional column. Then you can see the effects of an eco-refrigerator or less frequent off-hour laundry. There is a good explanation here of kw demand vs kwh consumption:

http://www.think-energy.net/KWvsKWH.htm

My first impulse was, 'forget it, just double down on the number of solar panels, that should take care of it.' The cost of panels, like the wood in a building, gets lost in labor and permitting costs, so the marginal impact of more panels is fairly minimal.

However this is really wasteful on a societal scale. I am not keen on smart this or that running my life but in this case, like car or tool sharing, it makes a great deal of sense for an electric grid.

Batteries have a role to play in replacing peaking plants and interacting with all-electric vehicles but again it is unthinkable to have enough solar energy stored from summer to subsidize the house in winter. It is only workable to store 2-3 days ahead in conjunction with flattened and flexible daily peaking and reduced total consumption.

14,690 kwh was our use last year; $1,788 for actual electric. Summer air conditioning was a big component and getting noticeably worse with local climate change effects. Rooftop solar actually shades the building and somewhat reduces the need for cooling it. Winter is just a memory here.

$                  kwh
139   feb   2015   952
272   mar   2015   891
123   apr   2015   900
147   may   2015   1101
217   jun   2015   1694
229   jul   2015   1796
211   aug   2015   1646
190   sep   2015   1469
137   oct   2015   1021
122   nov   2015   932
154   dec   2015   1241
147   jan   2016   1047

$174 ave monthly bill.
$2,088 for full year of which $15 x 12 = $180 is unavoidable fixed service charge and $10 x 12 = $120 is taxes
$1,788 is yearly charge for actual electricity, $150 per month.
1,224 ave kwh use per month @12¢ per without surcharges.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 07:27:04 PM by A-Team »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #228 on: April 15, 2016, 02:26:12 AM »
You beat me to it, A-Team!

Just this week, the local electric company tied in my 5 kW solar panel system to the grid and it was fired up for the first time.  It's been about 6 months of procedural matters, and now my first three days of power generation.  After a few weeks, I planned to start a Solar thread in the Walking the Walk section for people to tell their stories.

Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #229 on: April 15, 2016, 09:34:02 AM »
2-15.        45 kWh
3-15.         -9 kWh
4-15.        88 kWh
5-15.       -33 kWh
6-15.       -56 kWh
7-15.        25 kWh
8-15.      138 kWh
9-15.      411 kWh
10-15.    438 kWh
11-15.    320 kWh
12-15.      77 kWH
 1-16.       69 kWh
 2-16.      -24 kWh
 3-16.      -61 kWh

1671 kWh
-191. kWh
Total 1480 kWh  used from grid 14 months
Calif.  grid relatively low ff dependent but pricey
 5,000kW solar grid tied system 
 
Water pumps for irrigation accounts for most of the 8-15 to 1-16. kWh use
About 10 acre feet of water pumped for 2015
About 5'500'000 calories of pork produced and sold ( 55 pigs )
~ 50 tons barley for feed bought 14 tons squash gleaned 300 lbs nuts foraged
Transport for feed and   hauling pigs to market accounted for a vast majority of energy consumption. Largely due to USDA regulations and lack of processing facilities nearby.  

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #230 on: April 15, 2016, 11:15:32 AM »
The problem with the powerwall is the 500 cycle limit. The market where power outages are frequent but lots of people are affluent is very limited. For the same money, you could get a very smart Sonnen energy center from Germany with 10 000 recharge cycles and do your own micro-grid with solar panels and neighbors.

My thinking exactly A-Team:

http://www.V2G.co.uk/2015/06/is-distributed-energy-storage-on-ofgems-roadmap/

Whilst I do actually think the Elon generated "buzz" is helpful, better hardware can be obtained elsewhere. As far as I am aware the Powerwall isn't big in Japan.
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jai mitchell

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #231 on: April 15, 2016, 05:24:22 PM »
the powerwall 500 cycle limit is new to me.  Last I checked the warranty lasts through 5,000 cycles with an 80% reduction in capacity at that time, pretty standard for the technology.  Did something change?  is this an edit error? did you mean 5,000?
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #232 on: April 15, 2016, 07:01:28 PM »
We live in an area that is now a "community choice aggregate" power service area. They use the existing power grid to provide independently sourced electricity at two tiers: 36% renewable and 100% local renewable. Once we are settled in, we'll upgrade to the 100%. The difference in cost is currently about 20%. 100% local renewable without the need for solar. Pretty cool.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #233 on: April 15, 2016, 09:29:49 PM »
I would give E Musk very high marks for energizing this whole field. I recall his suprise at the great interest shown in the initial powerwall announcement and him pointing out  the same day that the battery pack was not at all what people thought it was, that the chemistry has to be re-designed from the ground up for residential solar. The toy unit has 5000 cycles coinciding with an expiring warranty.

While Tesla's product line is constantly adapting to the marketplace, they have a very difficult task ahead to catch up with vastly more advanced German battery systems like Sonnen's 10 000 cycle, not in the least because Sonnen is successfully poaching their top employees.

Quote
The 10-kilowatt-hour option was marketed as a backup power supply capable of 500 cycles, at a price to installers of $3,500. Tesla was angling to sell the battery to consumers that want peace of mind in the event the grid goes down, like during another Superstorm Sandy. The problem is that the economics for a lithium-ion backup battery just aren’t that attractive.

Even at Tesla’s low wholesale price, a 500-cycle battery just doesn’t pencil out against the alternatives, especially once the inverter and other system costs are included. State-of-the-art backup generators from companies like Generac and Cummins sell for $5,000 or less. These companies also offer financing, which removes any advantage Tesla might claim with that tactic, as GTM’s Jeff St. John pointed out last spring.

“Even some of the deep cycling lead acid batteries offer 1,000 cycles and cost less than half of the $3,500 price tag for Tesla Powerwall,” said Ravi Manghani, senior energy storage analyst at GTM Research. “For pure backup applications only providing 500 cycles, lead acid batteries or gensets are way more economical.”
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Tesla-Discontinues-10kWh-Powerwall-Home-Battery
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 09:37:51 PM by A-Team »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #234 on: April 15, 2016, 10:00:01 PM »
Perhaps that's why Tesla cancelled the limited-cycle 10kW back-up battery, and now only offers the 7kW battery which is optimized for daily usage.

http://electrek.co/2016/04/08/tesla-begins-alerting-1st-general-us-powerwall-customers-installations-starting-in-june/


Tesla confirmed having discontinued the 10 kWh Powerwall for backup power to focus on daily cycling version
http://electrek.co/2016/03/19/tesla-discontinued-10-kwh-powerwall-backup-power/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #235 on: April 15, 2016, 10:03:32 PM »
Footage from inside Tesla’s Gigafactory and new Elon Musk interview on HBO Friday [Teaser video]
Quote
The next episode of Vice on HBO is scheduled to debut... (Friday, April 15 11pm ET) and it will include footage from inside the plant as well as a new interview with Tesla CEO Elon Musk.

HBO describes the episode titled “The Future of Energy”...
http://electrek.co/2016/04/14/footage-inside-tesla-gigafactory-elon-muskhbo-video/
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sidd

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #236 on: April 15, 2016, 11:09:59 PM »
Sonnen Batterie. LiFePO4. 100% depth of discharge. 10,000 cycle guarantee.

jai mitchell

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #237 on: April 16, 2016, 07:51:52 PM »
While Tesla's product line is constantly adapting to the marketplace, they have a very difficult task ahead to catch up with vastly more advanced German battery systems like Sonnen's 10 000 cycle, not in the least because Sonnen is successfully poaching their top employees.

Quote
The 10-kilowatt-hour option was marketed as a backup power supply capable of 500 cycles, at a price to installers of $3,500. Tesla was angling to sell the battery to consumers that want peace of mind in the event the grid goes down, like during another Superstorm Sandy. The problem is that the economics for a lithium-ion backup battery just aren’t that attractive.

Even at Tesla’s low wholesale price, a 500-cycle battery just doesn’t pencil out against the alternatives, especially once the inverter and other system costs are included. State-of-the-art backup generators from companies like Generac and Cummins sell for $5,000 or less. These companies also offer financing, which removes any advantage Tesla might claim with that tactic, as GTM’s Jeff St. John pointed out last spring.

“Even some of the deep cycling lead acid batteries offer 1,000 cycles and cost less than half of the $3,500 price tag for Tesla Powerwall,” said Ravi Manghani, senior energy storage analyst at GTM Research. “For pure backup applications only providing 500 cycles, lead acid batteries or gensets are way more economical.”
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Tesla-Discontinues-10kWh-Powerwall-Home-Battery

Ah yes, the 10kWh was designed for emergency full backup use and not for daily peak load reduction.  That was why they discontinued it, it wasn't selling very well and people wanted to use their solar on a daily basis.  This was the smart move.  I am also glad to see more competitors in this market.  I suppose the economy of scale from the gigafactory will reduce costs by about 1/2 in the next few years.
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #238 on: April 17, 2016, 04:36:55 AM »
Tesla confirmed having discontinued the 10 kWh Powerwall for backup power to focus on daily cycling version
Quote
“We have seen enormous interest in the Daily Powerwall worldwide,” according to a statement provided to GTM. “The Daily Powerwall supports daily use applications like solar self-consumption plus backup power applications, and can offer backup simply by modifying the way it is installed in a home. Due to the interest, we have decided to focus entirely on building and deploying the 7-kilowatt-hour Daily Powerwall at this time.”

At the original unveiling of its new home battery system, Tesla said that there would be two versions, a smaller capacity 7-kilowatt-hour model priced at $3000 and a 10-kilowatt-hour for $3500 — both for different purposes. The 10kWh battery was to be optimized for energy backup, while the 7kWh system is for daily use. Tesla seemingly suggests that the latter has received much more interest.

This news comes as just couple of months ago we learned that Tesla Motors is already planning to release a second generation Powerwall, its home energy storage system, sometime during summer of this year. During a recent exclusive event for Tesla owners in Paris, Elon Musk said that “version 2 of the Powerwall probably around July or August of this year” and that the new version “will see further step changes in capabilities.” It’s possible that Tesla is planning to reintroduce the 10kWh model later this year.
http://electrek.co/2016/03/19/tesla-discontinued-10-kwh-powerwall-backup-power/

Ugh. I'd like to have one, but those prices make me cringe. It's much cheaper to go with good old fashioned lead-acid still. $428/kWh is horribly expensive for residential daily use. I regularly snipe 900Wh (0.9kWh) deep cycle marine batteries for 80-90 bucks, which works out to $100/kWh. Even accounting for the charge controllers and extra equipment, it's still much cheaper to make a bank of deep cycles.

And Jai, I'd be shocked if it drops that much in the next few years. Even if it did, lead acid is STILL considerably cheaper. These things would have to sell for around 1000 bucks to be economically viable against a regular battery bank, because (surprise surprise) you still need an inverter with the PowerWall.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #239 on: April 17, 2016, 03:10:48 PM »
Probably a big factor working here is the volume of the Li Ion batteries vs lead acid. The people who are interested in products like the Powerwall are paying for the small form factor. They don't have room for a large bank of batteries. Where real estate is extremely expensive the price of the space for batteries is a real consideration.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #240 on: April 17, 2016, 03:48:21 PM »
and so it goes

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #241 on: April 17, 2016, 04:04:05 PM »
Probably a big factor working here is the volume of the Li Ion batteries vs lead acid. The people who are interested in products like the Powerwall are paying for the small form factor. They don't have room for a large bank of batteries. Where real estate is extremely expensive the price of the space for batteries is a real consideration.

Other factors include appearance, and dangerous fumes from many lead-acid battery models.   Some installations need to be inside a garage or living area -- to avoid the risk of theft, for example, or to conform with local housing restrictions (although the Powerwall can be mounted outside).
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 04:14:13 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #242 on: April 18, 2016, 04:08:20 PM »
Tesla hires SunEdison’s energy storage lead Mohammad C. Bozchalui as the company is going bankrupt
Quote
He now joins the “Grid Solutions” team at Tesla Energy. He describes his new role in his LinkedIn profile:

“Maximizing the value of energy storage solutions for behind-the-meter customers, microgrids, utilities, and grid operators.”

Tesla has been ramping up its energy storage efforts lately. SolarCity has recently selected Tesla’s Powerpack for its massive energy storage project on Kaua’i Island in Hawaii. As for its residential energy storage business with the Tesla Powerwall, the company started installations in the US with a ramp up planned for this summer. Powerwall installations have also started in Europe and Australia.

We also recently got a good look at the company’s Powerwall/Powerpack assembly line.

Tesla estimated that its energy storage business could grow to as much as $500 million in revenue this year. As Tesla Energy’s customer base transition from early adopters to the average homeowner and the total amount of deployed energy storage increases, it will become significantly more important to optimize the systems and make the economics work on every level, which appears to be Bozchalui’s field of expertise.
http://electrek.co/2016/04/18/tesla-sunedison-energy-storage-bankrupt/
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jai mitchell

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #243 on: April 22, 2016, 06:33:07 PM »

And Jai, I'd be shocked if it drops that much in the next few years. Even if it did, lead acid is STILL considerably cheaper. These things would have to sell for around 1000 bucks to be economically viable against a regular battery bank, because (surprise surprise) you still need an inverter with the PowerWall.

The cost over the life of the battery is better for Li-ion, not to mention maintenance costs and rapid failure rate of cells after useful life is reached. 
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #244 on: April 22, 2016, 08:59:51 PM »
Tesla opens direct orders of up to 54 Powerpacks and reveals pricing
Quote
Today Tesla updated its ‘Tesla Energy’ website to include a lot more information about its commercial and utility-scale products, and even added a ‘Design Your Powerpack System‘ page with pricing information and an option to directly order a system of up to 54 Powerpacks (5.4 MWh).

The smallest order you can place for the stationary energy storage system is for 2 Powerpacks costing $47,000 each or $470/kWh. 

The system also includes a $65,000 Bi-Directional 250 kW Inverter as well as the cabling and site support hardware for $3,000. Without installation, the cheapest Powerpack system you can buy costs a total $162,000 for 200 kWh of energy and 100 kW of peak power.
http://electrek.co/2016/04/22/tesla-energy-powerpacks-pricing/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #245 on: April 25, 2016, 08:22:04 PM »
Tesla will install more energy storage with Solarcity in 2016 than the USA installed in 2015
Quote
It looks like Tesla is about to change the battery game – this time by installing more energy storage capacity in 2016 with SolarCity alone than all of the USA installed in 2015. In a recent filing with the SEC, it was found that Tesla foresees an almost 10X increase in sales to SolarCity for behind the meter storage.

We recognized approximately $4.9 million in revenue from SolarCity during fiscal year 2015 for sales of energy storage products governed by this master supply agreement, and anticipate recognizing approximately $44.0 million in such revenues during fiscal year 2016.

According to an analysis by GTM’s Ravi Manghan this revenue projection means Tesla expects to install approximately 116 MWh of behind the meter storage. In all of 2015, the United States installed about 76 MWh of behind the meter. Starting from a very low base, SolarCity and Tesla Energy doubled their battery installation volume last year. These were small installations at test locations for special customers, but that wall of ‘start up’ is already starting to fall.

Of course, this number – 116 MWh – does not include the largest storage project on SolarCity’s horizon – Kauai Island’s coming 52 MWh system.  The State of Hawaii, in aiming for 100% renewable energy by 2045, has contracted with SolarCity to balance the two 12MW Solar Power plants with the Kauai Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC).

By 2020 – there will be 70 GWh of Tesla battery storage on the road, and – as you can see in the slide below – Straubel expects there to be 10 GWh of controllable load in those cars. This means, instead of spinning up gas turbine power plants to balance out grid imbalances, the power companies will be able to tap into your car.
http://electrek.co/2016/04/25/tesla-solarcity-battery-energy-storage/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #246 on: April 26, 2016, 08:45:42 PM »
"Wire bonding technology – widely utilized in the microelectronics and power electronics industries since the 1970s – is finding its way into interesting new applications in the growing EV industry – in particular, battery connections."

wire bonding: an ultrasonic metal-metal friction welding process.

A closer look at wire bonding
Quote
The process starts with a wire placed under the tip of a slim, rod-like bonding tool. A well-defined force is applied, pressing the wire onto the electrode surface and causing an initial cold-straining at the contact area. The power element comes from an ultrasonic transducer that generates mechanical vibrations in a frequency range of about 60 kHz. Those vibrations are transferred by the bonding tool into the welding area for a period of time on the order of 100 milliseconds. The deformation of the wire and the bonding between wire and substrate steadily progress during this cold-friction process until a pure intermetallic compound between the wire and surface is formed. This process occurs at room temperature.
https://chargedevs.com/features/a-closer-look-at-wire-bonding/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #247 on: April 30, 2016, 09:48:51 PM »
Daimler Has Begun Deliveries Of Home Energy Storage Offerings
Quote
Daimler AG, in conjunction with its subsidiary Deutsche ACCUMOTIVE, has begun deliveries of its first home energy storage systems, following months of successful commercial deliveries.

The lithium-ion, battery-based home energy storage units — which are being manufactured by Deutsche ACCUMOTIVE — are based on the technologies developed for use in electric Mercedes-Benz vehicles.
...
…Up to eight battery modules with an energy content of 2.5 kWh each can be combined to produce an energy storage unit with a capacity of up to 20 kWh. Households with their own photovoltaic systems can therefore buffer surplus solar power with virtually no losses. By combining renewable energy sources with a local battery storage unit, private households can increase their self-consumption of generated energy to as much as 65%, thereby bringing about their own “private energy revolution”.

The retail price for home electricity generation is calculated based on a customized package of system components. These may comprise the photovoltaic system, battery inverter, energy management and the Mercedes-Benz energy storage unit, plus the cost of installation.
http://evobsession.com/daimler-has-begun-deliveries-of-home-energy-storage-offerings/
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #248 on: May 05, 2016, 02:04:11 AM »
Tesla Powerwalls for Home Energy Storage Hit U.S. Market
Quote
In Vermont, Green Mountain Power covers 75 percent of the state and serves 265,000 customers. One of the nation’s smallest investor-owned utilities, GMP made an initial purchase of 500 Powerwalls from Tesla and, in turn, is making them available to customers through direct sale or lease; 10 customers got them for free through the pilot program. More than 700 residential customers have expressed interest in paying for them.

“We’re confident that we will sell or lease every one,” said CEO Mary Powell. “We’re trying to transform a 100-year-old electric grid, and Tesla is killing it in terms of driving down cost while constantly improving the technology.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-04/tesla-powerwalls-for-home-energy-storage-are-hitting-u-s-market
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #249 on: May 05, 2016, 02:35:43 AM »
From February:

SolarCity is launching a new Solar+Tesla Powerwall+Nest Smart Thermostat package to manage energy and reduce grid dependence
Quote
Solar installer SolarCity announced this week a new package combining solar panels, battery storage, smart electric water heaters and the Nest Learning Thermostat in order to “prevent energy from being exported back to the grid”, says the company in a new press release.

The system, called ‘Smart Energy Home’, will first be offered in Hawaii, where the company had problems with the local electric utilities before.
In the past, SolarCity’s customers in Hawaii have reported difficulties connecting their PV systems to Hawaiian Electric Co.’s grid, which created tensions between the two companies.

Following these issues, when Tesla first announced its ‘Tesla Energy” line of energy storage products, SolarCity announced that it will use them to offer an option for home owners in Hawaii to go completely off-grid starting in 2016.

Although SolarCity doesn’t explicitly says that the new ‘Smart Energy’ system is “off-grid”, and it’s apparently not, the company clearly states that the goal of the new system is to reduce grid dependence by automatically modifying energy usage based on how much solar power is available.

It sounds like a step toward a completely off-grid system.
http://electrek.co/2016/02/25/solarcity-tesla-powerwall-nest-hawaii/
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