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AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #200 on: August 13, 2017, 04:40:24 AM »
The Younger Dryas cooling, in the Northern Hemisphere, began while the Antarctic Cold Reversal (ACR) was still ongoing, and the ACR ended in the midst of the Younger Dryas. Blunier, Thomas; et al., "Phase Lag of Antarctic and Greenland Temperature in the last Glacial...," in Abrantes, Fatima; Mix, Alan C., eds. (1999). Reconstructing Ocean History: A Window into the Future. New York: Kluwer Academic. ISBN 0-306-46293-1., pp. 121–138.

The GCM (Image 2) interestingly shows freezing conditions in estuaries of the Equatorial rivers (the Amazon and the Congo) while GCM delivers overall warming for SH and tropics. It is assumed from YD images 1 and 2 that the ACR had ended and thus SH SST had largely increased, but isolated pockets of cold existed because there were grounded ice bergs that were still melting - or SH GCM model is overstating the SH warmth and more of it was cooler.

Notable exceptions to overall SH warmth (image 2) are the large cold regions (i.e. the Chilean Coast of South America and Western and Southern Shores of Australia). It is here proposed that GCM probably overstates the SH warming, or there were significant persistent pile ups of ice bergs along the coast lines of South America (i.e. the Amazon cold anomaly), or the Western Equatorial Africa (i.e. the Congo anomaly). The failure of Ross Ice Shelf would be behind the Chilean cold anomaly, the Brazilian coastal anomaly (i.e. the Amazon cold spot), the Equatorial African anomaly (i.e. the Congo cold spot) and the failure of the Ronne Ice Shelf and other Antarctic shelves were behind the ice pile up on the southern and western shores of Australia.

The rapid cooling within one summer season is indicative of ice sheet / melt water lake collapse to cool the Northern Atlantic Ocean and its associated climate just within few weeks (Image 3). Teleconnections of such rapid cooling of ocean require large ice volume dumping which should have rapidly increased the sea level projecting a tongue of water beneath continental ice shelves world wide and making them to calve rapidly on both hemispheres due to a bending effect. German sea level fears may be well placed and correct in seeing coastal nuclear reactors as risk.

Thanks.

If one thinks of the cool/negative phase of the AMO as a minor representation of a Younger Dryas event; then the linked reference indicates that when the AMO is in a negative phase, this research would indicate that for the next two, or more, decades we can expect the tropical Pacific Ocean to be warmer than normal; i.e. that El Nino events will be more frequent and more intense, which particularly warms Antarctica and which indicates that for this period the GMSTA may well be above its average trend line:

KEWEI LYU, JIN-YI YU, AND HOUK PAEK (2017), "The Influences of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation on the Mean Strength of the North Pacific Subtropical High during Boreal Winter", Journal of Climate, https://doi.org/10.1175/JCLI-D-16-0525.1

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/JCLI-D-16-0525.1
&
https://www.ess.uci.edu/~yu/PDF/Lyu-Yu-Paek.JCLI.2017.pdf

Abstract: "The Atlantic multidecadal oscillation (AMO) has been shown to be capable of exerting significant influences on the Pacific climate. In this study, the authors analyze reanalysis datasets and conduct forced and coupled experiments with an atmospheric general circulation model (AGCM) to explain why the winter North Pacific subtropical high strengthens and expands northwestward during the positive phase of the AMO. The results show that the tropical Atlantic warming associated with the positive AMO phase leads to a westward displacement of the Pacific Walker circulation and a cooling of the tropical Pacific Ocean, thereby inducing anomalous descending motion over the central tropical Pacific. The descending motion then excites a stationary Rossby wave pattern that extends northward to produce a nearly barotropic anticyclone over the North Pacific. A diagnosis based on the quasigeostrophic vertical velocity equation reveals that the stationary wave pattern also results in enhanced subsidence over the northeastern Pacific via the anomalous advections of vorticity and temperature. The anomalous barotropic anticyclone and the enhanced subsidence are the two mechanisms that increase the sea level pressure over the North Pacific. The latter mechanism occurs to the southeast of the former one and thus is more influential in the subtropical high region. Both mechanisms can be produced in forced and coupled AGCMs but are displaced northward as a result of stationary wave patterns that differ from those observed. This explains why the model-simulated North Pacific sea level pressure responses to the AMO tend to be biased northward."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #201 on: August 19, 2017, 06:56:33 PM »
The linked reference provides evidence that paleo subglacial lakes contributed to the abrupt collapse of the Pine Island Bay marine glacier about 11 kya.  The researchers recommend that models for other modern-day Antarctic marine glaciers (say PIG and Thwaites) should be recalibrated to better account for the influence of subglacial lakes:

Title: "Geoscientific evidence for subglacial lakes"

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170601082228.htm

Extract: "During expeditions to the Amundsen Sea with the Research Icebreaker Polarstern in 2006 and 2010, AWI researchers and their international colleagues collected sediment cores that they now confirm are from subglacial lakes. "The cores, which are up to ten metres long, were collected at a water depth of 750 metres. The lake sediments are currently buried under a four-metre thick layer of marine sediment on the seafloor," Kuhn reports. They were retrieved from valleys on the ocean floor that were situated under the Antarctic Ice Sheet in the Earth's distant past. "We have now verified that, during the last glacial period, there were also subglacial lakes under a massively thick ice sheet in Pine Island Bay in the southern Amundsen Sea.

Satellite-monitoring shows that the movement of water from one lake to another can cause glaciers draining the Antarctic Ice Sheet to move more quickly. "This aspect needs to be taken into account in models designed to make predictions on the future behaviour and dynamics of ice masses, and with them, the degree to which the sea level will rise," explains AWI marine geologist Kuhn. According to a second study, which Kuhn contributed to and was published in Nature Communications on 17 March 2017, he added: "We have every reason to believe that there are more subglacial lakes in the Antarctic -- and more so in the last glacial period -- than has been previously assumed. In addition, icecaps like those on the sub-Antarctic island South Georgia and ice sheets reacted much more sensitively and rapidly to climate changes than previously assumed.""

See also:

1.   Gerhard Kuhn, Claus-Dieter Hillenbrand, Sabine Kasten, James A. Smith, Frank O. Nitsche, Thomas Frederichs, Steffen Wiers, Werner Ehrmann, Johann P. Klages, José M. Mogollón. Evidence for a palaeo-subglacial lake on the Antarctic continental shelf. Nature Communications, 2017; 8: 15591 DOI: 10.1038/NCOMMS15591

2.   Alastair G. C. Graham, Gerhard Kuhn, Ove Meisel, Claus-Dieter Hillenbrand, Dominic A. Hodgson, Werner Ehrmann, Lukas Wacker, Paul Wintersteller, Christian dos Santos Ferreira, Miriam Römer, Duanne White, Gerhard Bohrmann. Major advance of South Georgia glaciers during the Antarctic Cold Reversal following extensive sub-Antarctic glaciation. Nature Communications, 2017; 8: 14798 DOI: 10.1038/ncomms14798
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #202 on: August 30, 2017, 11:17:19 PM »
The linked article discusses findings from a new study reported in Nature that compares the current rates of radiative forcing, RF, with those that occurred during the PETM, and reconfirms that we are currently driving Earth Systems with RF with much fast rates than during the PETM:

Title: "New study: We’re outpacing the most radical climate event we know of"

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/08/new-study-were-outpacing-the-most-radical-climate-event-we-know-of/

Extract: "To find a sudden warming that's driven entirely by greenhouse gases, you have to go back 56 million years to the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM). At the start of the PETM, a geologically sudden surge of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere caused warming and a large change in the ocean's pH. It took well over 100,000 years for conditions to return to anything normal. During that time, the extinction rate rose, and many ecosystems were disrupted or shifted by thousands of miles.

But understanding the PETM has proven a challenge, as it's not clear how much carbon entered the atmosphere or where it came from. A new paper in today's issue of Nature takes existing information about carbon dioxide levels and isotope ratios and combines them with data on the amount of carbon that dissolved into the oceans. The results provide a new indication of how much carbon entered the atmosphere—10,000 gigatonnes—and suggests volcanoes put it there.
Somewhat disturbingly, however, the data reinforces past indications that the PETM was relatively slow compared to our current carbon binge."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #203 on: September 13, 2017, 05:45:35 PM »
The linked reference provides a paleo study of the WAIS's sensitivity to warming of the Southern Ocean:

Johannes Sutter, Paul Gierz, Klaus Grosfeld, Malte Thoma, Gerrit Lohmann (2016), "Ocean temperature thresholds for Last Interglacial West Antarctic Ice Sheet collapse", Geophysical Research Letters, DOI: 10.1002/2016GL067818

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016GL067818/full

Abstract: "The West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) is considered the major contributor to global sea level rise in the Last Interglacial (LIG) and potentially in the future. Exposed fossil reef terraces suggest sea levels in excess of 7 m in the last warm era, of which probably not much more than 2 m are considered to originate from melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet. We simulate the evolution of the Antarctic Ice Sheet during the LIG with a 3-D thermomechanical ice sheet model forced by an atmosphere-ocean general circulation model (AOGCM). Our results show that high LIG sea levels cannot be reproduced with the atmosphere-ocean forcing delivered by current AOGCMs. However, when taking reconstructed Southern Ocean temperature anomalies of several degrees, sensitivity studies indicate a Southern Ocean temperature anomaly threshold for total WAIS collapse of 2–3°C, accounting for a sea level rise of 3–4 m during the LIG. Potential future Antarctic Ice Sheet dynamics range from a moderate retreat to a complete collapse, depending on rate and amplitude of warming."

See also:

Title: "How stable is the West Antarctic Ice Sheet?"

https://www.awi.de/nc/en/about-us/service/press/press-release/how-stable-is-the-west-antarctic-ice-sheet.html

Extract: "[05. February 2016]  A future warming of the Southern Ocean caused by rising greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere may severely disrupt the stability of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. The result would be a rise in the global sea level by several metres. A collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet may have occurred during the last interglacial period 125,000 years ago, a period when the polar surface temperature was around two degrees Celsius higher than today. This is the result of a series of model simulations which the researchers of the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI), have published online in the journal Geophysical Research Letters."
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Laurent

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #204 on: September 14, 2017, 12:52:47 PM »
Someone here was saying that the Eemian was 0.5°c +/-0.3°c. Here the article says 2°c that is quite a big difference ! where is the truth ?

AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #205 on: September 14, 2017, 04:45:53 PM »
Someone here was saying that the Eemian was 0.5°c +/-0.3°c. Here the article says 2°c that is quite a big difference ! where is the truth ?

Laurent,

The linked reference indicates that the Eemian was punctuated by a number of hosing events that impacted the MOC.  Thus by cherry picking time periods, both values of GMSTA could be correct; however, as CMIP5 projections do not include such hosing events, so we cannot use the Eemian record as an analog for the AR5 projections.

Karin F.Helmens et al (2015), "Major cooling intersecting peak Eemian Interglacial warmth in northern Europe", Quaternary Science Reviews 122, DOI: 10.1016/j.quascirev.2015.05.018

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379115002231

Abstract: "The degree of climate instability on the continent during the warmer-than-present Eemian Interglacial (around ca. 123 kyr ago) remains unsolved. Recently published high-resolution proxy data from the North Atlantic Ocean suggest that the Eemian was punctuated by abrupt events with reductions in North Atlantic Deep Water formation accompanied by sea-surface temperature cooling. Here we present multi-proxy data at an unprecedented resolution that reveals a major cooling event intersecting peak Eemian warmth on the North European continent. Two independent temperature reconstructions based on terrestrial plants and chironomids indicate a summer cooling of the order of 2-4 °C. The cooling event started abruptly, had a step-wise recovery, and lasted 500-1000 yr. Our results demonstrate that the common view of relatively stable interglacial climate conditions on the continent should be revised, and that perturbations in the North Atlantic oceanic circulation under warmer-than-present interglacial conditions may also lead to abrupt and dramatic changes on the adjacent continent."

See also: "Eemian"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eemian

Best,
ASLR
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 12:18:20 AM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #206 on: September 14, 2017, 05:24:51 PM »
Laurent,

Here is information from Hansen et al (2013), on your question (however, different researchers give different values):

James Hansen, Makiko Sato, Gary Russell, Pushker Kharecha (16 September 2013), "Climate sensitivity, sea level and atmospheric carbon dioxide", Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A, DOI: 10.1098/rsta.2012.0294

http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/371/2001/20120294

Abstract: "Cenozoic temperature, sea level and CO2 covariations provide insights into climate sensitivity to external forcings and sea-level sensitivity to climate change. Climate sensitivity depends on the initial climate state, but potentially can be accurately inferred from precise palaeoclimate data. Pleistocene climate oscillations yield a fast-feedback climate sensitivity of 3±1°C for a 4 W m−2 CO2 forcing if Holocene warming relative to the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) is used as calibration, but the error (uncertainty) is substantial and partly subjective because of poorly defined LGM global temperature and possible human influences in the Holocene. Glacial-to-interglacial climate change leading to the prior (Eemian) interglacial is less ambiguous and implies a sensitivity in the upper part of the above range, i.e. 3–4°C for a 4 W m−2 CO2 forcing. Slow feedbacks, especially change of ice sheet size and atmospheric CO2, amplify the total Earth system sensitivity by an amount that depends on the time scale considered. Ice sheet response time is poorly defined, but we show that the slow response and hysteresis in prevailing ice sheet models are exaggerated. We use a global model, simplified to essential processes, to investigate state dependence of climate sensitivity, finding an increased sensitivity towards warmer climates, as low cloud cover is diminished and increased water vapour elevates the tropopause. Burning all fossil fuels, we conclude, would make most of the planet uninhabitable by humans, thus calling into question strategies that emphasize adaptation to climate change."

Best,
ASLR
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 12:19:07 AM by AbruptSLR »
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Laurent

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #207 on: September 15, 2017, 12:15:12 AM »
Thank you Abruptslr !
This graph from the ice cores in this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eemian show me that there was an average at 0.8°c and a peak at 1.5°c (that is what I read) ok I get that different scientists give different results...
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 12:30:53 AM by Laurent »

AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #208 on: September 16, 2017, 12:43:46 AM »
Thank you Abruptslr !
This graph from the ice cores in this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eemian show me that there was an average at 0.8°c and a peak at 1.5°c (that is what I read) ok I get that different scientists give different results...

If this graph is showing local temperatures in Antarctica, then do not forget to divide by an Antarctic Amplification factor of between 2 and 3 to GMSTA.

Edit:

The linked reference finds an Antarctic Amplification of 2 to 3 time GMSTA; which is higher than that observed over the satellite era:

Kurt M. Cuffey, Gary D. Clow, Eric J. Steig, Christo Buizert, T. J. Fudge, Michelle Koutnik, Edwin D. Waddington, Richard B. Alley, and Jeffrey P. Severinghaus (2016), "Deglacial temperature history of West Antarctica", PNAS, vol. 113 no. 50, 14249–14254, doi: 10.1073/pnas.1609132113

http://www.pnas.org/content/113/50/14249

Abstract: "The most recent glacial to interglacial transition constitutes a remarkable natural experiment for learning how Earth’s climate responds to various forcings, including a rise in atmospheric CO2. This transition has left a direct thermal remnant in the polar ice sheets, where the exceptional purity and continual accumulation of ice permit analyses not possible in other settings. For Antarctica, the deglacial warming has previously been constrained only by the water isotopic composition in ice cores, without an absolute thermometric assessment of the isotopes’ sensitivity to temperature. To overcome this limitation, we measured temperatures in a deep borehole and analyzed them together with ice-core data to reconstruct the surface temperature history of West Antarctica. The deglacial warming was 11.3±1.8 ∘  11.3±1.8∘ C, approximately two to three times the global average, in agreement with theoretical expectations for Antarctic amplification of planetary temperature changes. Consistent with evidence from glacier retreat in Southern Hemisphere mountain ranges, the Antarctic warming was mostly completed by 15 kyBP, several millennia earlier than in the Northern Hemisphere. These results constrain the role of variable oceanic heat transport between hemispheres during deglaciation and quantitatively bound the direct influence of global climate forcings on Antarctic temperature. Although climate models perform well on average in this context, some recent syntheses of deglacial climate history have underestimated Antarctic warming and the models with lowest sensitivity can be discounted."

Extract: "Of greatest immediate interest, however, is our demonstration that the global deglacial temperature change was amplified by a factor of 2–3 in the Antarctic, that Antarctic warming was largely achieved by 15 ka in coherence with records from Southern Hemisphere mountain ranges, and that climate models of the deglaciation perform well on average, but that the ones with lowest sensitivity can be discounted. The early warming of the Southern Hemisphere, which our study helps to quantify, arose from combined effects of reduced northward oceanic heat transport, increased insolation, and increasing atmospheric CO2. Quantitative simulation of this phenomenon could provide an illuminating challenge for model studies."
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 12:49:30 AM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #209 on: September 30, 2017, 12:17:43 AM »
The linked reference address how the collapse of the WAIS can alter oceanic and atmospheric patterns, leading to Super Interglacial conditions:

Flavio Justino, Douglas Lindemann, Fred Kucharski, Aaron Wilson, David Bromwich, and Frode Stordal (2017), "Oceanic response to changes in the WAIS and astronomical forcing during the MIS31 superinterglacial", Clim. Past, 13, 1081–1095, https://doi.org/10.5194/cp-13-1081-2017

https://www.clim-past.net/13/1081/2017/cp-13-1081-2017.pdf

Abstract: "Marine Isotope Stage 31 (MIS31, between 1085 and 1055 ka) was characterized by higher extratropical air temperatures and a substantial recession of polar glaciers compared to today.  Paleoreconstructions and model simulations have increased the understanding of the MIS31 interval, but questions remain regarding the role of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans in modifying the climate associated with the variations in Earth’s orbital parameters. Multi-century coupled climate simulations, with the astronomical configuration of the MIS31 and modified West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) topography, show an increase in the thermohaline flux and northward oceanic heat transport (OHT) in the Pacific Ocean.  These oceanic changes are driven by anomalous atmospheric circulation and increased surface salinity in concert with a stronger meridional overturning circulation (MOC). The intensified northward OHT is responsible for up to 85% of the global OHT anomalies and contributes to the overall reduction in sea ice in the Northern Hemisphere (NH) due to Earth’s astronomical configuration. The relative contributions of the Atlantic Ocean to global OHT and MOC anomalies are minor compared to those of the Pacific.  However, sea ice changes are remarkable, highlighted by decreased (increased) cover in the Ross (Weddell) Sea but widespread reductions in sea ice across the NH."

Extract: "Based on coupled climate simulations performed under present day and boundary conditions representative of Marine Isotope Stage 31 (MIS31), our analyses provide evidence that under MIS31 climate conditions there was a remarkable reduction in sea ice distribution across the NH due to the astronomical configuration of that epoch. This contrasts with increases in sea ice area across the SH. The climate response to collapsing the WAIS is prominent in the vicinity of the Antarctic continent, whereas the effect of modification in the Earth orbital configuration extends worldwide.

It has furthermore been demonstrated that the MIS31 interglacial experienced significant changes in the Meridional Overturning Circulation (MOC). In the Atlantic, increases in the MOC are related to an intensified westerly atmospheric flow in the northern North Atlantic, leading to strong convective mixing. The main convection sites in MIS31 have also been shifted poleward compared to the control simulation (CTR) in concert with changes in the position of the meridional thermal gradient."

Also, it would be nice if anyone attending the Fall AGU Meeting in New Orleans could report back on:

Julie Brigham-Grette, Robert M Deconto, Rajarshi Roychowdhury, Greg de Wet, Benjamin Andrew Keisling, Martin Melles and Pavel Minyuk (2017), "Too Warm, Two Poles: Super Interglacial Teleconnections and Possible Dual Pole Ice Sheet Stability", AGU Fall Meeting
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #210 on: October 06, 2017, 11:42:45 PM »
The linked reference discusses the Ross Sea Dipole.  The 2,700 year RICE record can help to understand the risk of abrupt changes in temperature, snowfall and sea ice in West Antarctica.

Bertler et al (2017), "The Ross Sea Dipole - Temperature, Snow Accumulation and Sea Ice Variability in the Ross Sea Region, Antarctica, over the Past 2,700 Years", Clim. Past Discuss., https://doi.org/10.5194/cp-2017-95

https://www.clim-past-discuss.net/cp-2017-95/cp-2017-95.pdf

Abstract: "High-resolution, well-dated climate archives provide an opportunity to investigate the dynamic interactions of climate patterns relevant for future projections. Here, we present data from a new, annually-dated ice core record from the eastern Ross Sea. Comparison of the Roosevelt Island Climate Evolution (RICE) ice core records with climate reanalysis data for the 1979-2012 calibration period shows that RICE records reliably capture temperature and snow precipitation variability of the region. RICE is compared with data from West Antarctica (West Antarctic Ice Sheet Divide Ice Core) and the western (Talos Dome) and eastern (Siple Dome) Ross Sea. For most of the past 2,700 years, the eastern Ross Sea was warming with increased snow accumulation and perhaps decreased sea ice extent. However, West Antarctica cooled whereas the western Ross Sea showed no significant temperature trend. From the 17th Century onwards, this relationship changes. All three regions now show signs of warming, with snow accumulation declining in West Antarctica and the eastern Ross Sea, but increasing in the western Ross Sea. Analysis of decadal to centennial-scale climate variability superimposed on the longer term trend reveal that periods characterised by opposing temperature trends between the Eastern and Western Ross Sea have occurred since the 3rd Century but are masked by longer-term trends. This pattern here is referred to as the Ross Sea Dipole, caused by a sensitive response of the region to dynamic interactions of the Southern Annual Mode and tropical forcings."
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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #211 on: October 10, 2017, 06:36:27 PM »
As I have noted that the MIS 11 (Holsteinian) era is particularly relevant to possible future scenarios for the impact of climate change, I provide the following paleo reference:

Florence Chen et al (2014), "Refining Estimates of Polar Ice Volumes during the MIS11 Interglacial Using Sea Level Records from South Africa", Journal of Climate, https://doi.org/10.1175/JCLI-D-14-00282.1

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-14-00282.1
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/JCLI-D-14-00282.1

Abstract: "Peak eustatic sea level (ESL), or minimum ice volume, during the protracted marine isotope stage 11 (MIS11) interglacial at ~420 ka remains a matter of contention. A recent study of high-stand markers of MIS11 age from the tectonically stable southern coast of South Africa estimated a peak ESL of 13 m. The present study refines this estimate by taking into account both the uncertainty in the correction for glacial isostatic adjustment (GIA) and the geographic variability of sea level change following polar ice sheet collapse. In regard to the latter, the authors demonstrate, using gravitationally self-consistent numerical predictions of postglacial sea level change, that rapid melting from any of the three major polar ice sheets (West Antarctic, Greenland, or East Antarctic) will lead to a local sea level rise in southern South Africa that is 15%–20% higher than the eustatic sea level rise associated with the ice sheet collapse. Taking this amplification and a range of possible GIA corrections into account and assuming that the tectonic correction applied in the earlier study is correct, the authors revise downward the estimate of peak ESL during MIS11 to 8–11.5 m."
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bligh8

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #212 on: November 18, 2017, 02:39:16 PM »
Within the following link (open access) is discussed evidence of
Iceberg transport, most likely sourced from the Antarctic Peninsula.
And that the East Falklands/Malvinas Current was still in operation during last glacial cycle.   The evidence of ice-berg scours and pits along the western side of the Falkland Islands would also result in further cooling from fresh, meltwater perturbations, enhancing the development of a potential ice-bridge along the Argentinean coast.

Abstract
Glaciation in the Southern Hemisphere is limited by the availability of land from which to seed ice sheets. The extents of the Antarctic, Patagonian, and New Zealand Ice Sheets at the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) are relatively well known, although the rates and styles of their retreat after the LGM are poorly constrained, particularly in Antarctica. Offshore records of glaciation are relatively sparse in the Southern Hemisphere despite the potential ocean-climate insights that can be gained from records of glaciation that are preserved offshore. In this study, we document the occurrence of iceberg scours and accompanying pits within the North Falkland Basin (c. 50° S) and discuss their origin. The cross-sectional shapes of scours are u- to v-shaped and occur in present-day water depths of 280 to 460 m. Individual scours are up to 38 km long, 1 km wide, and up to ~ 10 m deep. The scours are observed as erosional linear to curvilinear depressions, showing only one point of contact between the iceberg and seafloor, often with raised berms, composed of excavated material, identified either side of the main depression. Undulating width of scours is interpreted as an effect of rotation of the iceberg keel during scour excavation. The elongate morphology of the scours differentiates them from asymmetrical pits, interpreted to represent iceberg impact pits, and symmetrical pockmarks, interpreted to form due to fluid expulsion. In cross-section the differentiation is highly interpretative, but the 3D bathymetric expression is unequivocal. The sinusoidal character of the scours suggests the interaction between local tidal currents and the East Falkland/Malvinas Currents in the North Falkland Basin at the time of formation. Offshore and onshore landscape analysis is used to determine potential sources of icebergs and suggests that they were most likely sourced from the Antarctic Peninsula. These results inform our understanding of Southern Hemisphere ocean-climate interactions during the last glacial cycle and suggest that the East Falklands/Malvinas Current, a key current in the Southern Hemisphere bringing cold, low-salinity Antarctic-derived waters into the South Atlantic, was in operation during the last glacial cycle. The accumulation of icebergs west of the Falkland Islands would also result in further cooling from fresh, meltwater perturbations, enhancing the development of a potential ice-bridge along the Argentinian coast.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025322716302997

AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #213 on: August 13, 2018, 07:19:45 PM »
The findings of the linked article imply that policymakers would be wise to apply a high factor of safety when evaluating the policy implications of consensus ice sheet model projections such as those cited in AR5:

Dolan AM; De Boer B; Bernales J; Hill DJ; Haywood AM (2018) High climate model dependency of Pliocene Antarctic ice-sheet predictions, Nature Communications, 9, doi: 10.1038/s41467-018-05179-4

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05179-4

Extract: "… the collapse of the vulnerable marine basins of Antarctica is dependent on the ice-sheet model used.  These results demonstrate that great caution is required in order to avoid making unsound statements about the nature of the Pliocene Antarctic ice-sheet based on model results that do not account for structural uncertainty in both the climate and ice sheet models."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #214 on: August 27, 2018, 08:10:42 PM »
The linked reference provides paleo evidence from about 11,500 year ago, that indicates that portions of the WAIS are very sensitivity to collapse, even under conditions that were cooler than today:

J. Kingslake et al. (2018), "Extensive retreat and re-advance of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet during the Holocene", Nature, https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-018-0208-x

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0208-x.epdf?referrer_access_token=lOkN7hgTt7KBVbuYuXMwc9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PagDqQuHClF_KBoNEwt0qCDswVby5xisTUuro2GVqEdVyNRmUsMYB32-gwCy-WQGiOJuRHvpbmk3l6OEkAKwxOiPNDPRAKMIlDGFP4EHQgKD_G1qFJE2DhzFl3IkCeDuHh2Xln7I7LeJAB1tog4tIasE0yBRLzYo4hLBA3XhRCpg%3D%3D&tracking_referrer=news.nationalgeographic.com

Abstract: "To predict the future contributions of the Antarctic ice sheets to sea-level rise, numerical models use reconstructions of past ice-sheet retreat after the Last Glacial Maximum to tune model parameters. Reconstructions of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet have assumed that it retreated progressively throughout the Holocene epoch (the past 11,500 years or so). Here we show, however, that over this period the grounding line of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (which marks the point at which it is no longer in contact with the ground and becomes a floating ice shelf) retreated several hundred kilometres inland of today’s grounding line, before isostatic rebound caused it to re-advance to its present position. Our evidence includes, first, radiocarbon dating of sediment cores recovered from beneath the ice streams of the Ross Sea sector, indicating widespread Holocene marine exposure; and second, ice-penetrating radar observations of englacial structure in the Weddell Sea sector, indicating ice-shelf grounding. We explore the implications of these findings with an ice-sheet model. Modelled re-advance of the grounding line in the Holocene requires ice-shelf grounding caused by isostatic rebound. Our findings overturn the assumption of progressive retreat of the grounding line during the Holocene in West Antarctica, and corroborate previous suggestions of ice-sheet re-advance. Rebound-driven stabilizing processes were apparently able to halt and reverse climate-initiated ice loss. Whether these processes can reverse present-day ice loss on millennial timescales will depend on bedrock topography and mantle viscosity—parameters that are difficult to measure and to incorporate into ice-sheet models."

See also:

Title: "The West Antarctic Ice Sheet Seems to Be Good at Collapsing"

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/06/west-antarctic-ice-sheet-collapse-climate-change/

Extract: "SCIENTISTS HAVE DISCOVERED that the West Antarctic Ice Sheet underwent a major retreat between 10,000 and 12,000 years ago, at a time when the world was actually cooler than it is today. The collapse happened at the close of the last Ice Age, and it left the ice sheet 135,000 square miles smaller than it is today – a difference nearly as large as the state of Montana.

“That the ice sheet could retreat beyond where it is today, in a climate that was likely quite a bit colder than today, points to extraordinary sensitivity,” says Robert DeConto, a glaciologist at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, who was not involved in the research."
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 10:42:27 PM by AbruptSLR »
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sidd

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #215 on: August 30, 2018, 11:41:58 PM »
For obscure reasons I am going back over early misgivings about West Antarctica. Amazing how much we knew fifty years ago.

I have often spoken of Mercer and Weertman as prophets before their time. Here. from 1973,  is another intimation of Doom from another researcher, who is still publishing today: Prof. Terence Hughes. Another connection is that both Mercer and Hughes were at Ohio State. Hughes published this paper five years after Mercer's 1968 warning.

From the abstract:
"Present ice sheet surface profiles along flowlines entering both the Ronne and the Ross ice shelves from Marie Byrd Land are not equilibrium profiles, suggesting that the west antarctic ice sheet is unstable"

(Amery is another threatening profile that Hughes has written about  more recently.)

From the body:

"A polar ice sheet grounded below sea level may be inherently unstable due to its capacity to respond drastically to moderate climatic warming, its ability to trap brine pockets during grounding, and its optimum probability for thermal convection. Any one of these instability features might result in disintegration of the ice sheet at a much more rapid rate than would seem possible for a similar ice sheet grounded above sea level. Hence, the west antarctic ice sheet is expected to be much less stable than the east antarctic ice sheet, and this seems to be verified by the limited data available ... The reduction of ice 'elevation in central Marie  Byrd Land, on outlet glaciers through the Transantarctic Mountains, and on various glaciers in the Dry Valleys is the only direct evidence that disintegration is presently continuing."

The paper is:

Is the West Antarctic Ice Sheet Disintegrating?
T. Hughes, Journal of Geological Research, v78, issue33, Nov 30th 1973.

Many nice pictures.

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #216 on: September 11, 2018, 11:55:01 PM »
Projections from ice-sheet models still do not fully account for structural uncertainties:

Dolan, AM et al. (2018), "High Climate Model Dependency of Pliocene Antarctic Ice-Sheet Predictions", Nature Communications, 9. 2799. ISSN 2041-1723

http://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/131951/

Abstract
The mid-Pliocene warm period provides a natural laboratory to investigate the long-term response of the Earth’s ice-sheets and sea level in a warmer-than-present-day world. Proxy data suggest that during the warm Pliocene, portions of the Antarctic ice-sheets, including West Antarctica could have been lost. Ice-sheet modelling forced by Pliocene climate model outputs is an essential way to improve our understanding of ice-sheets during the Pliocene. However, uncertainty exists regarding the degree to which results are model-dependent. Using climatological forcing from an international climate modelling intercomparison project, we demonstrate the high dependency of Antarctic ice-sheet volume predictions on the climate model-based forcing used. In addition, the collapse of the vulnerable marine basins of Antarctica is dependent on the ice-sheet model used. These results demonstrate that great caution is required in order to avoid making unsound statements about the nature of the Pliocene Antarctic ice-sheet based on model results that do not account for structural uncertainty in both the climate and ice sheet models.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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PP11A-05: Absence of the West Antarctic ice sheet during the last interglaciation
Monday, 10 December 2018 09:00 - 09:15  Walter E Washington Convention Center - 102AB

During the last interglaciation (LIG; ~129-116 ka), global mean sea level (GMSL) was >6 m above present. Based on evidence of only modest LIG Greenland ice-sheet retreat, Antarctic ice sheets may also have contributed to LIG GMSL, but direct data for a contribution is lacking. Here we investigate the LIG extent of the West Antarctic (WAIS) and Antarctic Peninsula (APIS) ice sheets using Sr-Nd-Pb isotopes of silt from ODP Site 1096 in the Bellingshausen Sea. Based on our shelf Sr-Nd-Pb provenance data and a stable-isotope age model, we document WAIS-APIS erosion of all radiogenically-discernable terranes from the latter part of marine isotope stage (MIS) 5 up through the Holocene, consistent with independent ice-margin chronologies showing ice presence on all of these terranes from MIS 2 through the Holocene. For the LIG/early MIS 5, we only find evidence of silt sourced from the erosion of the APIS and the mountain ranges that rim the northern modern WAIS, with an absence of silt from Pine Island glacier. Ice-sheet models link Pine Island glacier absence to full WAIS collapse into ice caps on mountains. Our record thus provides the first direct indication of a much smaller LIG WAIS, providing paleo-context for the susceptibility of the WAIS to collapse.
Authors
Anders E Carlson
Oregon State University
Maureen H Walczak
The Australian National University
Brian L Beard
Univ. of Wisconsin - Madison
Matthew K Laffin
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Joseph S Stoner
Oregon State University

bligh8

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Three-phased Heinrich Stadial 4 recorded in NE Brazil stalagmites
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2018.12.025

Highlights

Detailed look at the NE Brazil pluvial period linked to Heinrich Stadial 4.

Changes in rainfall amount reflect the relative proximity of the West Atlantic ITCZ.

Multi-phased southward migration of the ITCZ during Heinrich Stadial 4.

Pluvial phases synchronous with decreased East Asian monsoon intensity.

Constraints on the timing of the ice rafting event associated with Heinrich Event 4.


Greenland Interstadial (GIS)/Chinese Interstadial (CIS) 9 and GIS/CIS 8. Oxygen isotope analysis shows a close anti-correlation between NE Brazil wet periods and East Asian monsoon intensity recorded in Hulu Cave, supporting the hypothesis of a southerly migration of the global ITCZ during HS4. The pluvial anomaly can be divided into three phases, starting with a precursor, less intense pluvial interval (phase 1) between 40.06 ± 0.11 and 39.59 ±0.10
kyr B.P., likely correlative to the cool phase of the North Atlantic immediately before the partial collapse of the Laurentide Ice Sheet (LIS). This phase ends abruptly (<30 yr) and is followed by an intense pluvial phase (phase 2) that spans approximately 5 centuries. Luminescent couplets are identified in all samples between 39.50 ± 0.10 and 39.41 ± 0.10 kyr B.P., and are interpreted as a period of two rainy seasons per year during which the southernmost extent of the inland West Atlantic ITCZ reached south of our study site (10°S). Following the end of phase 2 at 39.07 ± 0.32 kyr B.P., intermittent speleothem growth suggests intermittent rainfall over NE Brazil (phase 3) until the abrupt onset of GIS/CIS 8 at 38.38 ± 0.10 kyr B.P. The phases identified in NE Brazilian stalagmites agree with the three-phased variation in low-latitude proxies registered in Northern Greenland, and are consistent with changes in methane concentrations recorded in the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) Divide. The synchronicity of these distant records suggests a multi-phased response of tropical atmospheric circulation during HS4. The timescales surrounding the LIS collapse, as inferred from our precisely dated stalagmites, are on the same order as recent predictions for the impending collapse of the WAIS and may therefore serve as a past analogue.

Not sure if this belongs here or perhaps there is a better thread for it?

Steven

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #219 on: February 05, 2023, 11:46:28 AM »
Genomic evidence for West Antarctic Ice Sheet collapse during the Last Interglacial Period
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.29.525778v1


Article in The Guardian about this study:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/05/clue-to-rising-sea-levels-lies-in-dna-of-4m-year-old-octopus-scientists-say

Quote
Genetic samples were taken from 96 octopuses collected over three decades from around the continent.

The octopus DNA carries a memory of its past, including how and when different populations were moving and mixing together, exchanging genetic material.

The scientists say they detected clear signs that, about 125,000 years ago, some octopus populations on opposite sides of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet had mixed together, with the only likely route being a seaway between the south Weddell Sea and the Ross Sea.

“That could only have happened if the ice sheet had completely collapsed,” said Dr Sally Lau, a geneticist at James Cook University who led the research.

The research is undergoing peer review at a journal but it has been made public [...]

Prof Nick Golledge, a co-author of the research [...], said the route the octopuses are thought to have used is about 1,500 to 2,000 metres below the top of the current ice sheet. That channel would have been about 1,000 metres deep, but shallower nearer the edge.

“It’s a sizeable ocean segment and a significant seaway for organisms to traverse,” he said.

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #220 on: February 05, 2023, 05:45:25 PM »
Interesting study.

The implications are rather grim but they fit well with other finds such as 0,9C being enough to trigger the start of melt.
Its a pity that it is impossible to work out how fast things happened in the deep past so how long it took to melt then. At least we can gather really food data this time.  ::)
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Bart Vreeken

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #221 on: December 23, 2023, 10:34:58 AM »
It's an interesting study.

The question I have is how the octopuses survived the last glacial maximum, and where. Both the sea ice and the ice shelves would have had a much larger extent. It seems unlikely to me that they could survive under the ice. This means that the octopuses recolonized their current habitat after the Ice Age. Where did they come from? And could genetic exchange have taken place during this migration?

Bart Vreeken

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #222 on: December 23, 2023, 12:20:34 PM »
Antarctic sea ice over the past 130 000 years – Part 1: a review of what proxy records tell us

https://cp.copernicus.org/articles/18/1729/2022/

See Figure 4. LGM = Last Glacial Maximum.


kiwichick16

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #223 on: December 25, 2023, 11:14:55 AM »
we may know more shortly.....


Steven

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Re: Supporting Paleo-Evidence/Calibration for WAIS Collapse Hazard Scenarios
« Reply #224 on: December 25, 2023, 02:29:49 PM »
The question I have is how the octopuses survived the last glacial maximum, and where.

The earlier 2012 study has more information about this:

https://www.academia.edu/17261498/Persistent_genetic_signatures_of_historic_climatic_events_in_an_Antarctic_octopus

Quote
Both lineages survived subsequent major glacial cycles.  Our data are indicative of potential refugia at Shag Rocks and South Georgia and also around the Antarctic continent within the Ross Sea, Weddell Sea and off Adelie Land.

...

Biological and geological studies support the existence of refugia on the Antarctic shelf itself during glacial periods (Newman et al. 2009).  For example, during the last glacial maximum (LGM) (~25–19 years ago), the south-western Ross Sea, Prydz Bay and deeper parts of the Bransfield Basin (between the north-western Antarctic Peninsula and the South Shetland Islands) were likely free of grounded ice, whilst ice sheets approached the shelf break around most of Antarctica (Barnes & Hillenbrand 2010).