Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: The 2016 melting season  (Read 2285961 times)

Andreas T

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1149
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 18
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1000 on: May 10, 2016, 09:03:16 AM »
Yesterday's MODIS shows the first melt water puddles at the mouths of the Mackenzie delta. The Lena on the Sib side isn't that far yet.
Extent is slipping fast with another almost century loss.
yesterday also cleared clouds from the open water in that part of the Beaufort giving the before view for what the next few days will bring

Can someone with closer experience of these rivers than me explain how breakup occurs? from watching the satellite imagery it seems there is water flowing under the ice even in those permafrost regions. Occasionally water appears (above the ice I assume) which later disappears (under the ice ?) Or are we seeing loose ice floes in these images at this time of the year? http://go.nasa.gov/1OlfINc

The Ob seems to be the Siberian River to watch at the moment by the way. http://go.nasa.gov/1WXezSD

BornFromTheVoid

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1339
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 679
  • Likes Given: 299
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1001 on: May 10, 2016, 09:54:34 AM »
Hopefully I'll have time to do a more detailed analysis of the weather over the next week or so, but for now, this 850hPa temp anomaly chart for 5-6 days ahead is quite something.





Large +ve temp anomalies in Bering, Chukchi, East Siberian, Kara, Barents and Baffin seas. A continuation of the big losses could be expected, but spreading more and more into the Arctic proper.
I recently joined the twitter thing, where I post more analysis, pics and animations: @Icy_Samuel

lanevn

  • New ice
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1002 on: May 10, 2016, 10:40:25 AM »
Is there somewhere longterm forecasts? I know they have low probability, but anyway.

Acts5v29

  • New ice
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
    • worshipJehovah.org - not associated with any religion
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1003 on: May 10, 2016, 10:52:22 AM »
Howdy all, been following with horrific fascination. Always wanted to sail the NW passage, thrilled and horrified about the pending opportunities. Thanks for all your informative posts.
Meanwhile, in attempting to navigate various related sites, is the MacKenzie river about to flow a record melt into some record warm arctic temps? I'm aflutter with my sadistic tendency to thrill at extreme weather events, like rooting for a hurricane to grow stronger, even though I don't really want to see people hurt by the damage. This melt season appears to be that train wreck I can't look away from. Hope I'll be underwhelmed.

You're not alone - there is something hypnotic about disasters. 

abbottisgone

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 297
  • "...I'm a rock'n'roll star,...... YES I ARE!!!!!!"
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1004 on: May 10, 2016, 10:55:15 AM »
Howdy all, been following with horrific fascination. Always wanted to sail the NW passage, thrilled and horrified about the pending opportunities. Thanks for all your informative posts.
Meanwhile, in attempting to navigate various related sites, is the MacKenzie river about to flow a record melt into some record warm arctic temps? I'm aflutter with my sadistic tendency to thrill at extreme weather events, like rooting for a hurricane to grow stronger, even though I don't really want to see people hurt by the damage. This melt season appears to be that train wreck I can't look away from. Hope I'll be underwhelmed.

You're not alone - there is something hypnotic about disasters.
What's even more hypnotic is the thin escape route  ;)
..
But I left school and grew my hair
They didn't understand
They wanted me to be respected as
A doctor or a lawyer man
But I had other plans..........

Timothy Astin

  • New ice
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1005 on: May 10, 2016, 10:57:59 AM »

Can someone with closer experience of these rivers than me explain how breakup occurs? from watching the satellite imagery it seems there is water flowing under the ice even in those permafrost regions. Occasionally water appears (above the ice I assume) which later disappears (under the ice ?) Or are we seeing loose ice floes in these images at this time of the year? http://go.nasa.gov/1OlfINc

Found on the net "The Mackenzie-Beaufort Breakup Newsletter is accessible to anyone interested. In order to subscribe, please e-mail Dustin Whelan at dwhalen@nrcan.gc.ca"

Also some great photos of early stages of ice break-up and water break-through on the Mackenzie River and delta:
http://www.sfu.ca/ipy/ipygallery.htm

Acts5v29

  • New ice
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
    • worshipJehovah.org - not associated with any religion
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1006 on: May 10, 2016, 11:00:14 AM »
I'm aflutter with my sadistic tendency to thrill at extreme weather events, like rooting for a hurricane to grow stronger, even though I don't really want to see people hurt by the damage. This melt season appears to be that train wreck I can't look away from. Hope I'll be underwhelmed.

You're not alone - there is something hypnotic about disasters.
What's even more hypnotic is the thin escape route  ;)

In what form do you envisage that escape route?

BenB

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 283
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1007 on: May 10, 2016, 11:55:42 AM »
Large +ve temp anomalies in Bering, Chukchi, East Siberian, Kara, Barents and Baffin seas. A continuation of the big losses could be expected, but spreading more and more into the Arctic proper.

Chukchi is already above zero according to CCI, with Beaufort and significant parts of the Central Arctic expected to follow over the next couple of days. The centre of anomalous heat then moves towards the coldest parts of the Arctic, where temperatures remain below zero, but areas like Baffin, Kara and the CAA also remain anomalously warm throughout most of the coming week.

The Arctic-wide anomaly reaches a massive 4.80C by next Tuesday if the forecast holds:


meddoc

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 11
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1008 on: May 10, 2016, 12:39:58 PM »


You're not alone - there is something hypnotic about disasters.

What's even more hypnotic is the thin escape route  ;)


In what form do you envisage that escape route?


Maybe into science- fiction movies or books where humanity just finds another Living Planet to wreck...
Or perhaps transcendentally into his dreams.
Who knows.
Because physically we all certainly gonna feel the pain & b-e-e-e-rn.

pccp82

  • New ice
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1009 on: May 10, 2016, 12:52:54 PM »
comparing the expected heat to come ( and at 3-5 days out so very likely to verify) and with where we already are in the melting season....

its simply staggering. I don't know where the bottom will be.

jplotinus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 12
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1010 on: May 10, 2016, 03:12:54 PM »
This melting season is simply relentless. IJIS numbers have crashed in the last two days, and the lead over the "new normal" years has grown to about two weeks. That's a whole lot, though it does not guarantee a record. 2015 went along a similar (though higher) record track, only to stop for one whole week at the beginning of June.

-Ah, so, June of 2015-

June 2015 is intriguing in that it is a reminder of how unpredictable the Arctic can be, and is. IIRC, the spring of 2015 was very cold in some parts of the CAA, with temperatures lingering well below -10° all around the Baffin and Hudson Bays, causing that ice to linger far longer than usual, though it did eventually melt out.
One wonders whether there are any areas of the Arctic that might give rise to a similar stall this year?

Or, whether 2016 will maintain its separation from the rest of the years in this millennium?

From what forecasts currently show and project, there are no obvious indicators that any sort of pause is imminent. Perhaps those who rely on models will need to do some tweaking in order to better aim their trend lines. ;-p

DoomInTheUK

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1011 on: May 10, 2016, 03:25:06 PM »

What's even more hypnotic is the thin escape route  ;)

I was trying to decide if you meant the Nares or the Fram.

BornFromTheVoid

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1339
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 679
  • Likes Given: 299
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1012 on: May 10, 2016, 04:19:58 PM »
Looking at the updated NSIDC graphs with the new sensor readings, I'd say we're close to 12.475 million km2 at the moment, which is almost 1 million below 2012 and lowest on record by about 300k. Keep in mind that these are using a 5 day trailing average.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2012/05/daily-image/

This seem is pretty good relative agreement with the ADS extent.
I recently joined the twitter thing, where I post more analysis, pics and animations: @Icy_Samuel

Juan C. García

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3359
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1279
  • Likes Given: 1127
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1013 on: May 10, 2016, 04:41:08 PM »
Climate Reanalyzer is forecasting temperatures above 0 ºC for the Arctic on the Pacific side, for almost the whole week, moving from Beaufort all the way to the East Siberian Sea and the Arctic Basin.
Given the very low Arctic sea ice extent that we have right now and the heat that the Arctic will have on this week, 2016 could be the year in which we know from the begining that we can reach a record on September.  :o
Hope not!

http://cci-reanalyzer.org/Forecasts/#ARC-LEA
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

Wipneus

  • Citizen scientist
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4220
    • View Profile
    • Arctische Pinguin
  • Liked: 1025
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1014 on: May 10, 2016, 05:06:22 PM »
Looking at the updated NSIDC graphs with the new sensor readings, I'd say we're close to 12.475 million km2 at the moment, which is almost 1 million below 2012 and lowest on record by about 300k. Keep in mind that these are using a 5 day trailing average.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2012/05/daily-image/

This seem is pretty good relative agreement with the ADS extent.

Actually F18 extent (calculated as NSIDC does it) for 9 May is 12.377 Mm2

Daily updated data are here:

https://sites.google.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/sea-ice-extent-area/data/nsidc_nt_nrt_summary.txt
https://sites.google.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/sea-ice-extent-area/data/nsidc_nt_nrt_main.txt
https://sites.google.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/sea-ice-extent-area/data/nsidc_nt_detail.txt

More similar data (antarctic, Uni Hamburg) can be found in the same folder.

crandles

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 239
  • Likes Given: 81
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1015 on: May 10, 2016, 05:18:06 PM »
Looking at the updated NSIDC graphs with the new sensor readings, I'd say we're close to 12.475 million km2 at the moment, which is almost 1 million below 2012 and lowest on record by about 300k. Keep in mind that these are using a 5 day trailing average.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2012/05/daily-image/

This seem is pretty good relative agreement with the ADS extent.

To put some more numbers on the comparison:

While latest single day Ads NIPR / IJIS difference to next lowest year, 2006, is 436k
but 5day average of 11881k compared with 2006 of 12175k gives a diff of 295k

I agree NSIDC value looks around 12475k and if that compares with 2006 NSIDC 5day average to 9 May 2006 of 12787k

Then on similar basis both are remarkably close to 300k difference.


Wipneus
Is that 12.377 a one day number?

Presumably compares with 12.713 for 9 May 2006 for a 336k diff vs 436k diff on ADS NIPR
not quite as close on that basis but even 100k diff between different data sets isn't much

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1016 on: May 10, 2016, 05:51:58 PM »
Attached is the Nullschool Surface Temp & Wind Map for today (May 10 2016) indicating above freezing temperatures in the Chukchi Sea and the Southern Hudson Bay.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Lord M Vader

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1406
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 39
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1017 on: May 10, 2016, 06:03:05 PM »
Something that is becoming quite obvious is that the ECMWF have foreseen stronger cyclones than the GFS. That said, the remarkable warm forecasts that GFS is producing should likely not become that dramatic but more tempered.

pccp82

  • New ice
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1018 on: May 10, 2016, 06:23:24 PM »
Something that is becoming quite obvious is that the ECMWF have foreseen stronger cyclones than the GFS. That said, the remarkable warm forecasts that GFS is producing should likely not become that dramatic but more tempered.

Is this attributable to phase change of the ice, or perhaps something different?

DoomInTheUK

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1019 on: May 10, 2016, 06:30:20 PM »
I willing to bet that as the state of the ice becomes further from the norm, the weather forecasts will start to become less reliable. I expect the weather models don't include the feedback loop of the effect of the weather on the ice and vice versa.

Frivolousz21

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1915
  • Live in Belleville, IL..15 miles SE of St. Louis.
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 598
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1020 on: May 10, 2016, 07:12:52 PM »

The 12z gfs is incredibly warm over the Pacific side the next 9 days.

We are in unprecedented territory and there is no sign off it leveling out yet.

Its may 10th and the incredible albedo busting WAA is exploding onto the scene today.

The ice temps are already absurd.

The open water in the Beaufort is simply astonishing and it will only grow this week and likely warm above 0c.


I got a nickname for all my guns
a Desert Eagle that I call Big Pun
a two shot that I call Tupac
and a dirty pistol that love to crew hop
my TEC 9 Imma call T-Pain
my 3-8 snub Imma call Lil Wayne
machine gun named Missy so loud
it go e-e-e-e-ow e-e-e-e-e-e-blaow

Frivolousz21

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1915
  • Live in Belleville, IL..15 miles SE of St. Louis.
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 598
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1021 on: May 10, 2016, 07:14:30 PM »
I willing to bet that as the state of the ice becomes further from the norm, the weather forecasts will start to become less reliable. I expect the weather models don't include the feedback loop of the effect of the weather on the ice and vice versa.

I've always felt a decent correlation between below normal albedo over land snow and ice and the dipole anomaly.


Then again its becoming hard to call it an anomaly
I got a nickname for all my guns
a Desert Eagle that I call Big Pun
a two shot that I call Tupac
and a dirty pistol that love to crew hop
my TEC 9 Imma call T-Pain
my 3-8 snub Imma call Lil Wayne
machine gun named Missy so loud
it go e-e-e-e-ow e-e-e-e-e-e-blaow

Timothy Astin

  • New ice
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1022 on: May 10, 2016, 07:58:55 PM »
The Arctic Red River, near to its river mouth with the Mackenzie river, reached peak stage overnight (4 days earlier than last year). 
http://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/report/report_e.html?mode=Graph&type=realTime&stn=10LA002&dataType=Real-Time&startDate=2015-05-03&endDate=2016-05-10&prm1=46&y1Max=&y1Min=&prm2=47&y2Max=&y2Min=

The automated equipment monitoring the Mackenzie River nearby is currently down because of the rapidly rising river flood.

Expect to see a lot more water appear on the Mackenzie delta in the next few days.

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1023 on: May 10, 2016, 08:10:06 PM »
Attached is the Nullschool Surface Temp & Wind Map for today (May 10 2016) indicating above freezing temperatures in the Chukchi Sea and the Southern Hudson Bay.

dunno what time of the day that image indicates or an average but i see below zero temps in places where already at this very moment the temps are 3-5C above freezing. i say that temps today are generally higher than that image shows. one example would be kimmirut at currently around 4C and full sun-shine, still rising. but there are many more i checked just a one that is easy to verify for everyone on the webcam tab on the following site:

https://sites.google.com/site/arcticseaicegraphs/

werther

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 31
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1024 on: May 10, 2016, 08:30:14 PM »
Guys, things are bad enough as they are right now.

But I’ve closely followed too many melt seasons to get over excited in May.

What counts in favour of an exceptional season is the preparation through weak ‘winter power’. But I don’t think a +4.2 dC mean temp anomaly is in itself enough to trigger a record minimum extent. The ’13-’14 winter had +1.5 dC, followed by what a lot of friends called a ‘rebound year’.

Don’t get me wrong. Volume at maximum fits right into the cascade of climate change effects. This will ripple through the biosphere. But there’s no indication yet that melt circumstances in the short summer over the CAB will significantly differ from those seen through the last decade (Think the DMI temp graph over 80dG N).
Sure, the peripheral seas will offer a spectacular ride for us followers of Fate. It has already begun FI in the Kara Sea; I can’t remember an early May state-of-affairs over there like exposed by MODIS now. And it doesn’t even depend on spectacular May warmth! Ice out there is thin and mobile.

Still, I suppose the rate of decline in extent will diminish as soon as ice in the Pacific rim has been depleted. This GFS warmth injection is remarkable but won't have decisive extent implications. Hudson Bay ice may linger a while and the Beaufort-Laptev periphery won’t crash until late July…

I’m going for a ’10 year. Terrible for volume. Almost ’12 for extent. Disaster for who is initiated in Arctic Fate. Business as usual for the innocent.

Greenbelt

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 167
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 24
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1025 on: May 10, 2016, 09:19:56 PM »
Temps still below -10c at O-Buoy 14.  Will be interesting to watch over the next days if temps start to rise that far into the ice.
http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#buoy14/weather

We should be able to roughly calibrate the models' predicted temps with the temp recorded at the buoy using this these graphics (and roughly estimating the buoy location and converting C to F etc.): http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs&region=namer&pkg=T2m&runtime=2016051012&fh=0&xpos=0&ypos=634
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 09:32:29 PM by Greenbelt »

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1026 on: May 10, 2016, 09:39:59 PM »
@werther

Full agreement but want to add a few points that you left out but that could and soon will make the difference:

- 2-3 weeks ahead of time
- lower albedo when the sun will be at full force due to more and earlier open waters
- ice thickness across the board, again earlier and easier melt = more open waters, will add to above point
- ice temperature = less strength = easier brake up
- waves from relative large amounts of open water for the seasen, almost any even mid-strong winds will count

there is more but my point is the combination of all this. many of those components have been in place before
but never in that combination at this time of the year and IMO we need a totally overcast summer with winds that turn in circles over the remaining ice (without external warm air flowing in to have an average low, average
not counted from 100 or 30 yesrs but the "new average because values pre 1995 are somehow counting but
are from another era. hope i was able to make that point in a comprehensive manner, definitely lacking
terms and language skills to do better LOL

you opinion as to those additional factors / situations would be interesting to know to add to the learning curve

Nick_Naylor

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 291
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1027 on: May 10, 2016, 10:14:01 PM »
One more factor in favor of increased melt: the global temperature is at a record high - meaning more luck would be needed to keep the heat out of the Arctic.

cesium62

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1028 on: May 10, 2016, 10:14:14 PM »
Guys, things are bad enough as they are right now.

But I’ve closely followed too many melt seasons to get over excited in May.

What counts in favour of an exceptional season is the preparation through weak ‘winter power’. But I don’t think a +4.2 dC mean temp anomaly is in itself enough to trigger a record minimum extent. The ’13-’14 winter had +1.5 dC, followed by what a lot of friends called a ‘rebound year’.

Don’t get me wrong. Volume at maximum fits right into the cascade of climate change effects. This will ripple through the biosphere. But there’s no indication yet that melt circumstances in the short summer over the CAB will significantly differ from those seen through the last decade (Think the DMI temp graph over 80dG N).
Sure, the peripheral seas will offer a spectacular ride for us followers of Fate. It has already begun FI in the Kara Sea; I can’t remember an early May state-of-affairs over there like exposed by MODIS now. And it doesn’t even depend on spectacular May warmth! Ice out there is thin and mobile.

Still, I suppose the rate of decline in extent will diminish as soon as ice in the Pacific rim has been depleted. This GFS warmth injection is remarkable but won't have decisive extent implications. Hudson Bay ice may linger a while and the Beaufort-Laptev periphery won’t crash until late July…

I’m going for a ’10 year. Terrible for volume. Almost ’12 for extent. Disaster for who is initiated in Arctic Fate. Business as usual for the innocent.

But let's keep in mind some of the differences between '16 and other years.  2015 melted out a lot of older ice, and this past winter was mild.  So this year's ice is a little bit thinner, a little bit more salty, a little bit weaker than anything we've seen before.  We're seeing effects of that weaker ice.  It will melt a little bit faster and it will be more mobile.  More mobile ice will tend to disperse to where the ice isn't -- to where the ice already melted.

Meanwhile, 2015-2016 echoes the El Nino years of 1997-1998, and we should look toward the pattern of those years to suggest the pattern we may see this year.

1997 was a relatively cool summer for its time, 1998 was relatively warm.  Similarly, summer 2015 was a bit on the cool side (relative to it being a recent year).  So there's a fair chance that summer 2016 will be on the warmer side, both because it is in the second year of a strong El Nino year pair, and because there is about a 30% chance of a warm summer from year to year and we haven't seen a warm summer in the last few years.

But the prognosis should get a lot clearer real quick.  May 2015 was rather cool.  May 2016 is looking sweltering.

[As Slater points out, the DMI temp graph over 80dG N tells us that there is ice in that area and doesn't say much otherwise.  You want to look at the temperature a bit farther above the ice.]

Ice Shieldz

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 59
  • Likes Given: 58
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1029 on: May 10, 2016, 10:27:44 PM »
I willing to bet that as the state of the ice becomes further from the norm, the weather forecasts will start to become less reliable. I expect the weather models don't include the feedback loop of the effect of the weather on the ice and vice versa.

I've always felt a decent correlation between below normal albedo over land snow and ice and the dipole anomaly.


Then again its becoming hard to call it an anomaly

Just came upon the following article. It's very interesting to me in that it shows how a weakening Beaufort Gyre relates to *more* multiyear ice export out of the Fram Strait.

Quote
ARCTIC SEA-ICE MOVEMENT PATTERN, AND ARCTIC RAPID CHANGE PATTERN (ARCTIC DIPOLE ANOMALY)

A previously unseen weather pattern has been observed over the Arctic by several groups of scientists since 2006. Some have called it the 'Arctic Rapid Change Pattern (others term it a 'dipole anomaly). It is characterized by low air pressure developing during the winter months off the north Russian coast and higher pressure on the opposite side of the Arctic Ocean, over Greenland and north of Canada. These conditions create winds that blow across the North Pole from Greenland towards Russia, weakening the ocean circulation in the Beaufort Gyre.

The Beaufort Gyre is a slowly spinning whorl of cold, relatively fresh water and sea ice, partly driven by winds. It tends to hold sea ice in place for several years. Weaken the Beaufort Gyre and multi-year sea ice is more inclined to spill out through the Fram Strait into the North Atlantic, melting as it goes. This appears to be happening. Rapid export of sea ice from the Arctic Ocean to the Atlantic has been observed in recent years.



http://www.amap.no/documents/doc/arctic-sea-ice-movement-pattern-and-arctic-rapid-change-pattern-arctic-dipole-anomaly/973.

« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 10:56:16 PM by Ice Shieldz »

werther

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 31
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1030 on: May 10, 2016, 10:40:38 PM »
- 2-3 weeks ahead of time
Yes, but that is extent wise with an over proportional influence of Bering/Okhotsk, seas that suffer most from PDO/ENSO driven excess SST anomalies.

- lower albedo when the sun will be at full force due to more and earlier open waters

Sure, but other years had early Beaufort and Laptev polynia’s too. June will be the month when this can make a real difference.

- ice thickness across the board, again earlier and easier melt = more open waters, will add to above point

Agreed, but in the crucial CAB 4.2 Mkm2 the time-window is small and ice melt is coupled to just above freezing temps at lowest troposphere in a quite wide range of buffer. Once that buffer is exceeded…dragon king. Might only take two brutal weeks in July. Maybe ’17?

- ice temperature = less strength = easier brake up
I concur, I’ve already suggested that I’ll start looking for the safe ‘mesh-pattern’ that characterized the earlier years in the CAB in June. That will be a proxy for the effect of weak ‘winter power’ seen last freezing season.

- waves from relative large amounts of open water for the season, almost any even mid-strong winds will count
When the peripheral seas do end up depleted of ice during July, this could contribute to real danger for the CAB pack, especially in the case of a Low like GAC-12. But those are not yet that common.
You are right that a rare combination of all these factors would do the job, to our common bad luck. But it is too early in the season to make out if this set-up will have a big chance to realize.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1031 on: May 10, 2016, 11:02:53 PM »
'Tis the lows that I fear. Ekman pumping with the warmth already beamed into the water will be an amazing ice destroyer, not to mention warm arctic rains and the low clouds/fogs locking all that heat in.
Terry

crandles

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 239
  • Likes Given: 81
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1032 on: May 10, 2016, 11:52:17 PM »

- ice thickness across the board, again earlier and easier melt = more open waters, will add to above point

Volume just about at record low and Extent well below record low. Doesn't this mean thickness may well not be at record low let alone "across the board"?



Having said this "Volume just about at record low and Extent well below record low" is pretty close to the worst combination possible.

DoomInTheUK

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1033 on: May 10, 2016, 11:59:54 PM »

Volume just about at record low and Extent well below record low. Doesn't this mean thickness may well not be at record low let alone "across the board"?


It's certainly a worrying quantitative measure, but then we have no idea what condition the ice was in a previous lows or indeed now. After the warm winter I don't expect the ice to be in tip top shape.

I treat any metric as an indicator in the overall picture. Sadly the picture won't be in clear focus until August/September.

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1034 on: May 11, 2016, 12:00:50 AM »
@werther

thank you for this well founded further explanations, this is very much appreciated :-)

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1035 on: May 11, 2016, 12:04:14 AM »
not sure but that's what i meant, sorry if the wording implied otherwise and was not clear, my words were something like that, earlier melt, easier melt, which is due to that close or at record low "across the board" with which i wanted to say that it's not so local anymore but the ice is thin in much greater areas than earlier years.
so we agree i think :-)

6roucho

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 296
  • Finance geek
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1036 on: May 11, 2016, 02:22:52 AM »
Ice thickness does seem to be tracking slightly higher than previous years: there's simply progressively less of it.

cesium62

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1037 on: May 11, 2016, 02:36:35 AM »

- ice thickness across the board, again earlier and easier melt = more open waters, will add to above point

Volume just about at record low and Extent well below record low. Doesn't this mean thickness may well not be at record low let alone "across the board"?



Having said this "Volume just about at record low and Extent well below record low" is pretty close to the worst combination possible.

Yes, the thick old ice piled up against the CAA is still thick and old and strong.  But we weren't really expecting that to melt out.

cesium62

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1038 on: May 11, 2016, 02:53:13 AM »
Jim:  Do you have a temperature graph of a buoy in the Beaufort?  Seeing how the temperature changes through the thickness of the ice over the next couple of days seems like it ought to be interesting.

cesium62

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1039 on: May 11, 2016, 03:13:03 AM »
I'm trying to guesstimate how much ice will melt (thickness) in the Beaufort over the next two to four days.

On the one hand, a lot of the ice is about 2m thick and will melt during about 100 days of summer, implying on the order of 2cm of ice lost per summer day.

On the other hand, there's a rule of thumb that suggests around 3mm of ice lost per degree-day.  It looks like we are going to get around four to eight degree days of thawing over the next two to four days over the Beaufort.  Which would be up to 2cm of ice lost in total.

2cm vs 8cm seems like quite a spread.  How should I be thinking about the problem?

icy voyeur

  • New ice
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1040 on: May 11, 2016, 03:16:19 AM »
...
Yes, the thick old ice piled up against the CAA is still thick and old and strong.  But we weren't really expecting that to melt out.

I'm inclined to disagree, amateur though I be. We've seen a significant cracking that portends releasing of that multi-year ice. With significant melting in the Mackenzie delta and across the Alaskan coast, that ice appears primed to move with any reoccurrence of the Beaufort Gyre.
The conditions seem primed to move that ice. Further, they seem primed to drive a larger than average current through the Bering Straight, and early. The earlier, and the greater that flow, the more relatively warm water driving into the Arctic. Then the various threats of enhanced warming from an increased albedo produce a season primed for unprecedented melting.
It isn't that a record season is inevitable, but everything is stacking up to permit a record season with the adjunct of multiple opportunites for positive feedback to enhance melting.
Essentially, if you were challenged to engineer a season for record melting, wouldn't it begin much like this?
Granted, much of the record low ice extent is due to the early loss of the Bering but what if that, coupled with a loss in the Beaufort along the Alaskan coast produces an enhanced flow through the Bering Straight? That's a recipe for disaster and it seems at least a plausible scenario.
I would not predict it, but it's shaping up as something to fear.

Andreas T

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1149
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 18
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1041 on: May 11, 2016, 03:26:09 AM »
I have marked the approximate position in red of IMB2015F http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2015F.htm and in blue obuoy14 http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#buoy14/gps
 the only buoys reporting I know of.
air temperature at IMB2015 on the 10th -10.49   obuoy14  climbing from a low of -12 to -6 now

cesium62

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1042 on: May 11, 2016, 06:48:25 AM »
Essentially, if you were challenged to engineer a season for record melting, wouldn't it begin much like this?

I'd start with strong winds in November blowing from the CAA to the Laptev across the pole.  Or maybe that's exactly what happened this season?

cesium62

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1043 on: May 11, 2016, 06:49:15 AM »
I have marked the approximate position in red of IMB2015F http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2015F.htm and in blue obuoy14 http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#buoy14/gps
 the only buoys reporting I know of.
air temperature at IMB2015 on the 10th -10.49   obuoy14  climbing from a low of -12 to -6 now

thanks!

oren

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9817
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3589
  • Likes Given: 3943
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1044 on: May 11, 2016, 07:58:16 AM »
Looking at this year's extent region-wise, it is tracking 2015 very closely in most areas, including the easy Bering and Okhotsk. The differences are mainly in the Beaufort, about 1 month ahead, and on the Atlantic side - Greenland Sea, Barents, Baffin.
Following record low extent in May, 2015 stalled at the beginning of June. A lot of that happened in the Beaufort, which after early record losses got stuck on the same extent of 400k until mid-July, while 2012 got to 200k at that time and to zero at the end of July.
If this year is supposed to continue its record trend, the Beaufort is the place to watch in the next few weeks. We are now on that same 400k, will it continue on its way to a record early date of
ice-free Beaufort, or get totally stuck?
As the Beaufort is inside the Arctic Basin, and serves as potential killing ground for old ice brought by the gyre, or alternatively as a strong defense, this is a crucial question.

F.Tnioli

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 147
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1045 on: May 11, 2016, 09:38:07 AM »
Robert Scribbler has a few key observations in the linked article:

https://robertscribbler.com/2016/05/09/warm-north-pacific-winds-predicted-to-usher-in-brutal-arctic-heatwave-this-week/

Extract: "In this context of extreme Arctic heat and already record low Arctic sea ice levels, we continue to expect new record lows to be reached by the end of the melt season — pushing past one or more of the low marks set during 2012 and possibly testing near zero sea ice ranges (blue ocean event) of 80 percent volume loss since 1979 and below 750,000 square kilometers of sea ice area and 1.5 million square kilometers of sea ice extent by September of this year."
Hey, that's pretty much the same thing i also expected in this very topic some eight pages ago, in my 1st post in this year melt season topic! And i wrote it a week prior to their May 5th one, if i may add.

Of course, it's too early for any certainty, ergo both i and Robert are using terms like "possibly" and "quite likely". Still i guess both he and i are seeing too many things pointing to the possibility; _way_ too many, and thus we sorta communicate our guts' feeling, i guess.

P.S. Please don't blame Robert and yours truly for "not doing science". At some point some peoples' guts begin to be quite scientific in certain estimations. i guess formally speaking this is sorta soft computing thing, quite scientific and - at times, - useful, despite being called "guts' feeling" when it's human being doing it.
To everyone: before posting in a melting season topic, please be sure to know contents of this moderator's post: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3017.msg261893.html#msg261893 . Thanks!

DoomInTheUK

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 221
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1046 on: May 11, 2016, 09:48:43 AM »
P.S. Please don't blame Robert and yours truly for "not doing science". At some point some peoples' guts begin to be quite scientific in certain estimations. i guess formally speaking this is sorta soft computing thing, quite scientific and - at times, - useful, despite being called "guts' feeling" when it's human being doing it.

I would suggest that "doing science" would be about observations and context, and trying to understand where you might have gone wrong previously as well as thinking about the uncertainties in your current thinking. You might not be backing your predictions up with numbers, but I feel your approach is still "scientific".

Good luck to you and your guts.

F.Tnioli

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 147
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1047 on: May 11, 2016, 10:04:09 AM »
Yesterday's MODIS shows the first melt water puddles at the mouths of the Mackenzie delta. The Lena on the Sib side isn't that far yet.
Extent is slipping fast with another almost century loss.
yesterday also cleared clouds from the open water in that part of the Beaufort giving the before view for what the next few days will bring

Can someone with closer experience of these rivers than me explain how breakup occurs? from watching the satellite imagery it seems there is water flowing under the ice even in those permafrost regions. Occasionally water appears (above the ice I assume) which later disappears (under the ice ?) Or are we seeing loose ice floes in these images at this time of the year? http://go.nasa.gov/1OlfINc

The Ob seems to be the Siberian River to watch at the moment by the way. http://go.nasa.gov/1WXezSD
Been living next to Ob for 2 years of my life, in 1990s. The process is rather simple. Indeed there is liquid water under the river's winter ice, throughout the winter. It's a BIG river. In fact, it's so big that where i lived - Surgut, - one can't see the other shore when Ob goes summer flood. It's some 6+ kilometers wide. Like a sea. By the autumn, though, all the melt water is gone (went to the Arctic), and so levels drop and Ob becomes "just a river" - still some ~1...2 kilometers wide, that is. Then winter frost comes, and freezes its surface at _that_ low level. It's still quite deep, so it never freezes to the bottom; far from it.

Then comes next spring. You may notice Ob, Lena, Enisei and lots more rivers all through Siberia are generally going northwards. This means it's warmer where they start, colder in the middle, and even colder next to Arctic shore - on average. So the usual situation is, lots of snow and ice turned into liquid water in the "starting parts" of those rivers, and then that water starts to flow out. Where to? Through the rivers, of course. But since ice is lighter than water, that "extra new" water goes under (the still-remaining ice further north, in general).

And then, as more and more water goes "through" under the remaining ice, it simply breaks the ice mechanically "from down under", - there becomes not enough space for _all_ that additional water to freely go "under" the solid ice cover.

The process is usually quite abrupt at any given place: whole winter there is thick ice (it is usual deal to have heavy vehicles crossing those rivers winter-times, for example), but then one day during spring time - or sometimes just over a night, - the river turns into quickly expanding stream of water with lots and lots of ice pieces floating next to each other (sorta slash thing, but with _big_ pieces initially). It then may remain in such a state for a few days, some years - i was told by locals, - for over a week.

This is how siberian rivers can break their ice cover for hundreds and even thousands kilometers of their length _way_ before that ice would in fact be weakened to the point of fragmenting - it's just a matter of "not enough space for extra flow under the ice" and resulting mechanical pressure which breaks the ice from being connected to any (shore) soil as river levels rise.

P.S. In the middle part of Ob, where Surgut city stands, soil permafrost is absent few kilometers to both north and south from the river itself, but then present even further south. The river itself is the cause of this. Unless that southern permafrost area has disappeared in the last ~20 years, that is - the last time i've seen there detailed local permafrost map was that long ago...

P.P.S. Sidenote. DoomInTheUK - thank you, i guess. If it wasn't sarcastic. If it was - hehehe, yeah, i ain't no big deal. Alas, when dinosaurs went extinct, it is small mouse-like mammals who survived and became our ancestors, so there are benefits... Say, your nickname, - i think UK will have it better than most places around this little planet. Eventually. I even heard it described as "Europe's lifeboat" in the context of the ATM, the latter being "anthropogenic thermal maximum" which we are going into.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 10:38:24 AM by F.Tnioli »
To everyone: before posting in a melting season topic, please be sure to know contents of this moderator's post: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3017.msg261893.html#msg261893 . Thanks!

oren

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9817
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3589
  • Likes Given: 3943
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1048 on: May 11, 2016, 10:22:58 AM »
Yesterday's MODIS shows the first melt water puddles at the mouths of the Mackenzie delta. The Lena on the Sib side isn't that far yet.
Extent is slipping fast with another almost century loss.
yesterday also cleared clouds from the open water in that part of the Beaufort giving the before view for what the next few days will bring

Can someone with closer experience of these rivers than me explain how breakup occurs? from watching the satellite imagery it seems there is water flowing under the ice even in those permafrost regions. Occasionally water appears (above the ice I assume) which later disappears (under the ice ?) Or are we seeing loose ice floes in these images at this time of the year? http://go.nasa.gov/1OlfINc

The Ob seems to be the Siberian River to watch at the moment by the way. http://go.nasa.gov/1WXezSD
Been living next to Ob for 2 years of my life, in 1990s. The process is rather simple. Indeed there is liquid water under the river's winter ice, throughout the winter. It's a BIG river. In fact, it's so big that where i lived - Surgut, - one can't see the other shore when Ob goes summer flood. It's some 6+ kilometers wide. Like a sea. By the autumn, though, all the melt water is gone (went to the Arctic), and so levels drop and Ob becomes "just a river" - still some ~1...2 kilometers wide, that is. Then winter frost comes, and freezes its surface at _that_ low level. It's still quite deep, so it never freezes to the bottom; far from it.

Then comes next spring. You may notice Ob, Lena, Enisei and lots more rivers all through Siberia are generally going northwards. This means it's warmer where they start, colder in the middle, and even colder next to Arctic shore - on average. So the usual situation is, lots of snow and ice turned into liquid water in the "starting parts" of those rivers, and then that water starts to flow out. Where to? Through the rivers, of course. But since ice is lighter than water, that "extra new" water goes under (the still-remaining ice further north, in general).

And then, as more and more water goes "through" under the remaining ice, it simply breaks the ice mechanically "from down under", - there becomes not enough space for _all_ that additional water to freely go "under" the solid ice cover.

The process is usually quite abrupt at any given place: whole winter there is thick ice (it is usual deal to have heavy vehicles crossing those rivers winter-times, for example), but then one day during spring time - or sometimes just over a night, - the river turns into quickly expanding stream of water with lots and lots of ice pieces floating next to each other (sorta slash thing, but with _big_ pieces initially). It then may remain in such a state for a few days, some years - i was told by locals, - for over a week.

This is how siberian rivers can break their ice cover for hundreds and even thousands kilometers of their length _way_ before that ice would in fact be weakened to the point of fragmenting - it's just a matter of "not enough space for extra flow under the ice" and resulting mechanical pressure which breaks the ice from being connected to any (shore) soil as river levels rise.

P.S. In the middle part of Ob, where Surgut city stands, soil permafrost is absent few kilometers to both north and south from the river itself, but then present even further south. The river itself is the cause of this. Unless that southern permafrost area has disappeared in the last ~20 years, that is - the last time i've seen there detailed local permafrost map was that long ago...

Thank you for this very clear explanation.

6roucho

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 296
  • Finance geek
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The 2016 melting season
« Reply #1049 on: May 11, 2016, 11:43:35 AM »
Robert Scribbler has a few key observations in the linked article:

https://robertscribbler.com/2016/05/09/warm-north-pacific-winds-predicted-to-usher-in-brutal-arctic-heatwave-this-week/

Extract: "In this context of extreme Arctic heat and already record low Arctic sea ice levels, we continue to expect new record lows to be reached by the end of the melt season — pushing past one or more of the low marks set during 2012 and possibly testing near zero sea ice ranges (blue ocean event) of 80 percent volume loss since 1979 and below 750,000 square kilometers of sea ice area and 1.5 million square kilometers of sea ice extent by September of this year."
Hey, that's pretty much the same thing i also expected in this very topic some eight pages ago, in my 1st post in this year melt season topic! And i wrote it a week prior to their May 5th one, if i may add.

Of course, it's too early for any certainty, ergo both i and Robert are using terms like "possibly" and "quite likely". Still i guess both he and i are seeing too many things pointing to the possibility; _way_ too many, and thus we sorta communicate our guts' feeling, i guess.

P.S. Please don't blame Robert and yours truly for "not doing science". At some point some peoples' guts begin to be quite scientific in certain estimations. i guess formally speaking this is sorta soft computing thing, quite scientific and - at times, - useful, despite being called "guts' feeling" when it's human being doing it.
Human guts can be quite good at predicting changes in complex systems. Better than formal analysis in many cases. Undoubtedly an evolutionary thing. Humans who intuitively grasp the flight of the spear through the air get to eat the wildebeest, instead of the spear.