Please support this Forum and Neven's Blog

Author Topic: Systemic Isolation  (Read 22806 times)

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Systemic Isolation
« on: June 11, 2016, 06:14:58 PM »
I made the following post in the "Arctic Sea Ice Humor" thread, where I tried to use "The Matrix" as a metaphor as a mental system that has trapped/isolated individuals into a materialistic/hedonistic way of thinking/being; rather than becoming "unplugged" from the system/matrix so that they could express their free will as Neo learns to do.  And in this thread I hope to engage in a multi-layer/level (technical/philosophical/political/psychological/scientific etc, e.g. see the link to Elon Musk's opinion that we do in fact inhabit a "computer" generated reality) discussion of how systemic thinking tends to cling to old values/thinking resulting in individual/group isolation from an ever changing reality, which results in suffering, rather than in living a life unburdened by bias & limitations.

Re-post:

"And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." Morpheus, The Matrix


Edit: See also

http://www.newyorker.com/books/joshua-rothman/what-are-the-odds-we-are-living-in-a-computer-simulation
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 03:33:23 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2016, 09:14:53 PM »
Any systematic discussion like that attempted in this thread runs immediately into the problem that it only presents partial concepts that create the very isolation that is under discussion, and thus may contribute to both confusion and conflict.  This is why I started this thread in the "Open" topic folder, rather than say the "Science" folder where I have made many related posts in the "Adapting to the Anthropocene" thread (see the following link).

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1308.0.html

Such confusion and conflict are all the more likely as it is my intention to slowly/steadily post on topics ranging from the process used to support conclusions that form the "Scientific Consensus" on climate change, to human evolution, to philosophy, to AI technology, to socio-economic interactions, etc.

So to continue the discussion of the convoluted topic of "Systemic Isolation" (beyond the analogy that the Matrix makes with trapping human minds in a computer generated artificial reality as a metaphor for our current life-draining materialistic global socio-economic system); I note that:

(1) Evolution has biased human emotions/feelings (that we use to deal with complex situations from living in the wild to warfare between tribes to dealing ineptly with climate change) with "Survivor Bias", where aggressive risk takers (predecessors to neoliberal economic Milton Friedman types) tend to produce more children (as are religious fundamentalists) and to express such survivor bias parents with more children tend to deny climate change much more frequently.  This survivor bias also helps explain neoliberal focus on aggressive action (including Dessert Storms actions to tie our socio-economic system to oil from the Mideast) when confronted by crisis situations (as will occur under catastrophic climate change scenarios).

(2) Noting the prior point that neoliberals default to aggressive action (read as: tribalistic systemic isolation of us vs them) to for crisis like situations, including climate change, it is not surprising that the state elite assign responsibility for state of the art climate modeling like ACME to the US Department of Energy (which has a clearly biased mission to promote energy consumption), or that the POTUS has made the US military a focal point for implementing government climate mitigation efforts.  Similarly, such human propensity for systemic isolation (to address/confront complex situations), helps to explain why the UN's IPCC was created without any policy scope to recommend steps that would encourage leaving fossil fuels in the ground such as imposing aggressively progress carbon pricing plans.

(3) The process the leads to "Scientific Consensus" positions (such as reported by AR5) works using reductionist scientific disciplinary silos and leaves out any uncertain issues when recombining the systemically separate (isolated) disciplinary findings.  Thus it is not surprising that AR5 conveniently addressed the potential collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet with easily ignored footnotes; while recent findings (DeConto & Pollard 2016) indicate that this collapse could begin within a few decades from now, if we continue on a BAU pathway for the next one (assuming a high ECS, a rapid decrease in aerosol emissions and a positive PDO phase) to three decades.

I will save other points for future posts.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2016, 10:25:30 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2016, 10:41:50 PM »
Also, in the way of addition background from the "Humor" thread to help frame what I mean by Systemic Isolation (ala Milton Friedman neoliberals) vs Cooperation/Empathy for the Common Good (ala Charles Darwin & The Ascent of Man), I offer the two attached images illustrating the Systemic Isolation or "Team Me" approach (first image) vs the Cooperative or "Teamwork" approach (second image).

I note here that I support the school of thought that their is no I, no me, no my, no soul and that psychologically the Systemic Isolation (Team Me) approach is used to support the mental construct of an ego that facilitates "computational kindness" to reduce mental effort and speed time-critical decision making in complex (real-world) situations (or "wicked problems); but which result in cognitive dissonance (and associated suffering) in a constantly changing world.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

LRC1962

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2016, 11:06:09 PM »
I look forward to another of your interesting and edifying topics.
it is not surprising that the state elite assign responsibility for state of the art climate modeling like ACME to the US Department of Energy (which has a clearly biased mission to promote energy consumption), or that the POTUS has made the US military a focal point for implementing government climate mitigation efforts.
Although totally unintuitive, these are a  grand example of American politics and division of power at play.
In both of these examples it is the President that is trying to get an understanding of what reality really is and in some instances the efforts of some Presidents to hide the facts. The fact is neither of the houses want to face reality. That leaves the President with a small deck of cards to deal with. Put modelling in the hands of the DOE as the biggest changes needed to take mitigating efforts will fall to them. And it can be argued what is or is not done on the mitigating side of things globally speaking will end up in the hands of generals to fix. Historically country leaders have always fixed great internal problems by going to war and making the one you are going to war against out to be the bad guys.
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second,  it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
       - Arthur Schopenhauer

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2016, 11:32:48 PM »
I look forward to another of your interesting and edifying topics.
it is not surprising that the state elite assign responsibility for state of the art climate modeling like ACME to the US Department of Energy (which has a clearly biased mission to promote energy consumption), ...

Although totally unintuitive, these are a  grand example of American politics and division of power at play.


Also, what may not be obvious to some is that as US Senate appropriations committee has approved over USD $5 billion in funds to study albedo hacking (solar radiation management, SRM); having placed the DOE in control of ACME (Accelerated Climate Model for Energy) makes it relatively easy to combine these two efforts behind a wall of confidentiality (note that albedo hacking is not practicable without access to a state-of-the-art ESM such as ACME).  Further as the DOE controls the US National Labs (which develop nuclear weapons) all of the national security control mechanisms (which are fine examples of Systemic Isolation) are already in place to evaluate the military implications/uses for albedo hacking (SRM) using each new generation of ACME development:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2016/jun/01/scientists-debate-experimenting-with-climate-hacking-to-prevent-catastrophe
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

ivica

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 499
  • Kelele
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2016, 11:40:24 PM »
I like it:



Think of it in realm of:

"Nothing in this world is indifferent to us" I'll leave source of it for  you to disover ;)

Induce...

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2016, 03:20:53 AM »
"Nothing in this world is indifferent to us" I'll leave source of it for  you to disover ;)

ivica,

Thank you for some of Pope Francis's words of wisdom, for indeed nothing in this world should be indifferent to us, indicating that we should work systemically to build a sense of cohesion rather than of isolation, if we are to make meaningful progress in the fight on climate change.  However, to work effectively together we all need timely clues/signals about when to start doing one thing and to start doing another.  Certainly the Catholic Church provides one model of getting 1.2 billion people to work together around a common teaching; however, I suspect that due to the "wicked problem" nature of climate change that we will need still more clues and more signal/pattern recognition, which likely will require some/all of the following steps:

(1) Open communication about the climate change reality; including with neoliberal types; and hopefully, better ESM model projections (like those to start in a couple of weeks by ACME) will reduce the uncertainties sufficiently to start meaningful dialog.

(2) Firms like ExxonMobil publically state that revenue neutral carbon pricing is the single best step to take in fighting climate change; but every time that such carbon pricing legislation is tabled they have successfully blocked its passage in Congress; as they know it would force them the keep much of their fossil fuel reserves in the ground.  Without carbon pricing, how can the "invisible hand of the market" effectively guide consumer decisions to include consideration of climate consequences.

(3) While discussing the risks of abrupt climate change can leave individuals bewildered about what they can effectively do; I note that no good disaster should be left unutilized to galvanize the masses for action in the same way the FDR used Pearl Habor to motivate the American people to action during the darkest days of WWII.  Which to my way of thinking is exactly why the IPCC AR5 dumbed down the risk of the WAIS collapse, in an evident effort to prevent the masses from becoming sufficiently galvanized to work together to fight a common (and very real) enemy (see the attached image from the "Humor" thread).

Best,
ASLR
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 05:46:05 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 04:17:51 AM »
Next, I note that the influential 2007 LSE/Oxford document entitled: "The Wrong Trousers: Radically Re-thinking Climate Policy" studied why the Kyoto Protocol approach was doomed to failure.  This 47-page document accepted the premise that dangerous global warming had already commenced by 2007 and that the planet faces long-term harmful consequences as a result.  The document's authors choose the title to use the wisdom of the Wallace & Gromit animated short, where mechanical trousers that start out as a cool invention but end up kidnapping Wallace, as an apt metaphor for the Kyoto Protocol.

In short the Kyoto Protocol failed because it was too single-mindedly focused on reducing emissions, without either identifying: (a) the real risks of likely climate consequences, thus inhibiting the use of legal action to fight climate change; and (b) the need for policies to keep the fossil fuel in the ground, and once fossil fuel is produced it is virtually impossible to effectively limit emissions by limiting its use by policies (typically to limit one of four areas: (i) population growth, (ii) wealth, (iii) energy intensity and/or (iv) carbon intensity); due to the old adage that: "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" of decision makers.

With this lesson of failed policy in mind, I think it best to avoid the use of either overly simplistic solutions and/or overly narrow themes in fighting the "wicked problem" of climate change.  In this light I concur with Elon Musk that AI should be open sourced so as to both challenge the current state elite as well as the overly indulgent public.  Open sourced AI (and Swarm Intelligence) would be used to complement human efforts, making them more effective; while resulting in an open competition of ideas and concepts that could be applied both locally and globally.  Such open sourcing would prevent the systemic isolation that create "moral hazards" for the power elite (see the following linked article about Google's AI program, that may soon become powerful enough to rock governments in the way the fossil fuel lobbyist currently do).

http://www.techworm.net/2016/06/elon-musk-says-google-one-ai-company-fears.html

Extract: "Tesla CEO Elon Musk fears only one AI company and that is Google

...

Elon Musk has said that in order to prevent AI from taking over the human race, The Verge reports that democratizing these artificial intelligences is currently the only solution."

Edit: See also:

https://openai.com/about/

&

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/openai-elon-musk-sam-altman-plan-to-set-artificial-intelligence-free/

&

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI

Extract: "The group started in early January 2016 with nine researchers. According to Wired, Brockman met with Yoshua Bengio, one of the "founding fathers" of the deep learning movement, and drew up a list of the "best researchers in the field". Microsoft's Peter Lee has stated that the cost of a top AI researcher exceeds the cost of a top NFL quarterback prospect. While OpenAI pays corporate-level (rather than nonprofit-level) salaries, it doesn't currently pay AI researchers the same salaries as those same researchers can make at Facebook or Google. Nevertheless, Sutskever stated that he was willing to leave Google for OpenAI "partly of because of the very strong group of people and, to a very large extent, because of its mission." Brockman stated that "the best thing that I could imagine doing was moving humanity closer to building real AI in a safe way." OpenAI researcher Wojciech Zaremba stated that he turned down "borderline crazy" offers of two to three times his market value to join OpenAI instead."
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 05:50:48 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 06:01:12 AM »
As a follow-on to my last post, I provide the following link to a Nature article that indicates that within two years Google will have a small general-purpose/universal quantum computer available for commercial distribution.  Further I note that quantum computing and AI go together like and hand and glove, so you can expect an explosion of open source AI development sometime after 2018 to 2020:

Philip Ball (June 8 2016), "Google moves closer to a universal quantum computer", Nature, doi:10.1038/nature.2016.20032

http://www.nature.com/news/google-moves-closer-to-a-universal-quantum-computer-1.20032

Extract: "Combining the best of analog and digital approaches could yield a full-scale multipurpose quantum computer

Computer scientists at Google’s research laboratories in Santa Barbara, California, and physicists at the University of California at Santa Barbara, describe their new device online in Nature1.
“It’s terrific work in many respects, and is filled with valuable lessons for the quantum computing community,” says Daniel Lidar, a quantum-computing expert at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

The Google device is still very much a prototype. But Lidar says that in a couple of years, devices with more than 40 qubits could become a reality.

“At that point,” he says, “it will become possible to simulate quantum dynamics that is inaccessible on classical hardware, which will mark the advent of ‘quantum supremacy’.”

See also for practicing programming for quantum computers see the following linked websites:

Google: http://www.quantumplayground.net

Microsoft: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/research-areas/quantum-computing.aspx

IBM: http://www.research.ibm.com/quantum
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 08:50:11 PM »
When considering both our current and possible future situations with regards to "Systemic Isolation", it is generally a good idea to examine where we came from and with regards to climate change, the first link leads to the thread entitled: "Early Anthropocene" which contains much more extensive information on where we came from w.r.t. the Anthropocene.

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,852.0.html

For the purposes of this post, I choose to focus on what I call the: faux "Age of Enlightenment" in Europe (see the second link & associate extract) together with its inter-relationships with both the "Scientific Revolution" in Europe (see the third link) and Europe's "Age of Discovery" (see the fourth link):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment

Extract: "The ideas of the Enlightenment undermined the authority of the monarchy and the church, and paved the way for the revolutions of the 18th and 19th centuries. A variety of 19th-century movements, including liberalism and neo-classicism, trace their intellectual heritage back to the Enlightenment.

The Age of Enlightenment was preceded by and closely associated with the scientific revolution."
See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_revolution
&
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery

In particular, I cite the following linked Lewis & Maslin (2015) reference (& two attached associated images), that discuss one possible gestalt for considering the Anthropocene as having begun in 1610. The first image shows a possible "golden spike" in 1610 of a minimum in atmospheric CO₂ due to the recovery of forests in both Africa and the New World associated with widespread depopulation in these areas associated with the "Age of Discovery", which provided sufficient resources (via exploitation of both local population and resources) for Europe (& successive area of influence) to develop the findings of the "Scientific Revolution" into the "Industrial Revolution" fueled by fossil energy that has led to our current risk of catastrophic climate change.

Lewis, S. L.; Maslin, M. A. (12 March 2015), "Defining the Anthropocene", Nature 519: 171–180. doi:10.1038/nature14258

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v519/n7542/full/nature14258.html

https://eorder.sheridan.com/3_0/app/orders/4609/article.php#171
&

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/anthropocene-began-species-exchange-between-old-and-new-worlds

Extract: "Nonetheless, the collision of the Old and New Worlds is linked to the industrial revolution. Europe’s annexing of the Americas provided major new imports of agricultural commodities, thereby freeing Western European labour from the land – this, alongside coal, was one of two essential precursors to the industrial revolution. So dating the Anthropocene to 1610, some 150 years prior to the beginning of the industrial revolution, is consistent with the material causes of that turning point in human history."

I call this period from roughly 1610 to now a faux "Age of Enlightenment" because state elites (initially European and then elites in subsequent areas of influence) took advantage (Systemically Isolatation characterized by liberal economic and 'Survival of the Fittest" schools of thought) of the situation by exploiting/high-jacking : (a) third world resources, (b) fossil fuels, and (c) Newtonian scientific insights to create a Masters of the World type of thinking that the neo-liberals used to intentionally sustain a BAU mindset since the early 1980's (Reaganomics), when it was painfully obvious that we needed to reduce GHG emissions (e.g. see James Hansen's testimony to the US Congress).  In my next post I plan to discuss that fact that with the current development of both AI and quantum computers we will soon be departing the faux "Age of Enlightenment" (where clarity was achieved at the cost of Systemic Isolation and ignoring a holistic world view) and entering what will call the "Age of Entanglement" (associated with both "wicked problems" like climate change and quantum theory).
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2016, 12:28:55 AM »
In this regards, I note that the recent rapid progress in AI development has been achieved (primarily) by the increased use of "machine learning" via deep neutral networks where the computers have essentially been writing their own probabilistic coding of mathematical/data relationships within a "scaffolding" of programming within which the AI operates.  Consequently (as the AI essentially develops its own pattern recognition algorithms), only a hundred, or so, AI programmers (with high math and intuitive logic meta-skills) are needed to create our coming AI (& and associated "Internet of Things") revolution.

Assuming that Elon Musk's OpenAI effort works-out to democratize the AI human interaction, then large groups of humans (even those in the developing world) will be able to "train" the AI within its operating scaffolding (provided by the few geniuses) to better tackle difficult (wicked) real-world problems from high-finance (e.g.: Derivatives & Hedge funds), to smart energy grids, to fleets of self-driving cars, to state-of-the-art ESM (like ACME); and thereby minimizing the damage caused by the use of pre-conditioned (faux "Age of Enlightenment") fake-it-until-you-make-it type of systems (with isolating logic) approach, such as Wallace & Gromit Wrong Trousers approach used by the Kyoto Protocol.

In this vein of thought I conclude by reiterating that AI can work hand-in-glove with quantum computing to tackle wicked problems, as per the following linked article quantum computing can use the principle called entanglement to greatly amplify our computing power (see extract):

http://www.uloop.com/news/view.php/203670/Quantum-Computing-And-How-You-Can-Get-Involved-Now

Extract: "… the basis of quantum computing is to exploit another principle called entanglement. Quantum entanglement is essentially the phenomenon that when atoms interact with each other, they are somehow mysteriously linked to each other with an explanation unknown to modern science.

When you measure the “wave” or the location of one atom, you instantly know the position of the other. However, until you measure the atom, it is theoretically in any position. In other words, you can find the position of one atom through measuring the position of another. By exploiting this, quantum computers can calculate things exponentially fast because once you know one thing, the other is given to you.

With this logic, quantum computing can exploit this as a workaround to search for something, such as information in a database, without looking through each and every entry. Scientists are attempting to use this advantage to speed up the times of search engines such as Google and decryption of secure and encrypted information in a matter of seconds. The potential of quantum computing is massive enough to cause a tremendous change in technology and spike up our computing power."

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2016, 10:13:15 PM »
As a follow-on to my last post, I note that the linked reference discusses: "Quantum concepts such as entanglement, complementarity, uncertainty, and superposition provide a strong basis for recognizing and promoting people as the solution to climate change."  In subsequent posts I plan to pontificate on the topic of quantum social theory and beyond, as a means to face the challenge of catastrophic climate change:

O'Brien, K. L. (2016), "Climate change and social transformations: is it time for a quantum leap?", WIREs Clim Change, doi: 10.1002/wcc.413

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wcc.413/abstract

Abstract: "Climate change is recognized as an urgent societal problem with widespread implications for both natural and human systems, and transforming society at the rate and scale that is mandated by the 2015 Paris Agreement remains a major challenge. Do we need to be open to new paradigms for social change? In this opinion piece, I draw attention to the emerging field of quantum social theory and consider its implications for climate change responses. Quantum social theory considers how concepts, methods and understandings from quantum physics relate to societal issues, and it provides a physically based, holistic perspective on conscious and intentional transformations to sustainability. It is distinct from other social theories in that it raises deep metaphysical and ontological questions about what is really real. I explore the methodological, metaphorical and meaningful significance of quantum social theory for understandings of social change. Quantum concepts such as entanglement, complementarity, uncertainty, and superposition provide a strong basis for recognizing and promoting people as the solution to climate change."

See also:

http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/philosophy/philosophy-social-science/quantum-mind-and-social-science-unifying-physical-and-social-ontology

Description: "There is an underlying assumption in the social sciences that consciousness and social life are ultimately classical physical/material phenomena. In this ground-breaking book, Alexander Wendt challenges this assumption by proposing that consciousness is, in fact, a macroscopic quantum mechanical phenomenon. In the first half of the book, Wendt justifies the insertion of quantum theory into social scientific debates, introduces social scientists to quantum theory and the philosophical controversy about its interpretation, and then defends the quantum consciousness hypothesis against the orthodox, classical approach to the mind-body problem. In the second half, he develops the implications of this metaphysical perspective for the nature of language and the agent-structure problem in social ontology. Wendt's argument is a revolutionary development which raises fundamental questions about the nature of social life and the work of those who study it."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

johnm33

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 604
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2016, 01:52:54 AM »
" consciousness is, in fact, a macroscopic quantum mechanical phenomenon" check out chapter 9, page 102 of the pdf, 89 of the script.

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2016, 10:31:52 AM »
Just to start with the more obvious implications of advanced computing in our “Age of Entanglement” I note that not only is advanced computing being used for AI development but that all of the modern international financial markets are highly tied to solving advanced algorithms as discussed in the following linked articles:


http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35886456

Extract: “Goldman Sachs, RBS, Guggenheim Partners and Commonwealth Bank of Australia have all invested in quantum computing, with the aim of stealing a march on their competitors.
"This is interesting to the financial world because if you can find an algorithmic advantage to solve a problem, that can give you a great competitive advantage,"




D-Wave's Mr Williams reckons businesses will have access to quantum computing functionality by 2018, ...”


To give an idea of the type of complexity of the algorithms that these quantum computers are needed to solve I provide the following like to a job advice website to PhD's in such advanced areas as Pure Mathematics, String Theory, Quantum Field Theory, etc. who are seeking employment with Hedge Funds, Derivatives, Banks etc.

https://www.quantstart.com/articles/How-To-Get-A-Quant-Job-Once-You-Have-A-PhD


Extract: “I want to discuss specific PhD fields as well, to give you an idea of where you might consider focusing your efforts based on what you have previously studied:

Pure Mathematics - The top funds generally hire the pure mathematicians from esoteric realms such as algebraic geometry and information theory. Banks will also take individuals who study stochastic calculus to a high level for their derivatives research teams.

Mathematical Finance - Portfolio optimisation and derivatives pricing are two common themes studied in mathematical finance PhDs. You will often have collaborated with banks during your PhD, so it is unlikely your job prospects will be slim! If you are struggling, it can be very helpful to contact department heads as they will often have a strong network.

Theoretical Physics - Funds will be very interested in your ability to model physical phenomena, either through direct or statistical approaches. Some theoretical physics areas are highly mathematical (Cosmology, String Theory, Quantum Field Theory etc) and so the advice given to theoretical physics PhDs is similar to pure mathematicians.”

Edit: And just imagine how errors/limitations in such algorithms can lead to financial Black Swan events like the 2007-08 financial collapse that caught financial regulators by surprise; which is but one example of the risks of Systemic Isolation.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 06:15:22 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2016, 07:54:22 PM »
As a follow-on to my last post (& with a hat-tip to sidd), I provide the following reference (I note that Murray Gell-Mann is a leading expert in quantum physics and string theory) that could be used to best address climate change issues including:  risk, insurance, revenue neutral carbon pricing, and other topics.  This reference makes it very clear that most humans (even most experts) have a very weak intuitive understanding of their own ignorance (which results in a poor understanding of gambles/risk, due to Systemic Isolation).

Ole Peters and Murray Gell-Mann (Feb. 2, 2016), "Evaluating gambles using dynamics," Chaos, DOI: 10.1063/1.4940236

http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/chaos/26/2/10.1063/1.4940236

Abstract: "Gambles are random variables that model possible changes in wealth. Classic decision theory transforms money into utility through a utility function and defines the value of a gamble as the expectation value of utility changes. Utility functions aim to capture individual psychological characteristics, but their generality limits predictive power. Expectation value maximizers are defined as rational in economics, but expectation values are only meaningful in the presence of ensembles or in systems with ergodic properties, whereas decision-makers have no access to ensembles, and the variables representing wealth in the usual growth models do not have the relevant ergodic properties. Simultaneously addressing the shortcomings of utility and those of expectations, we propose to evaluate gambles by averaging wealth growth over time. No utility function is needed, but a dynamic must be specified to compute time averages. Linear and logarithmic “utility functions” appear as transformations that generate ergodic observables for purely additive and purely multiplicative dynamics, respectively. We highlight inconsistencies throughout the development of decision theory, whose correction clarifies that our perspective is legitimate. These invalidate a commonly cited argument for bounded utility functions."


Also see:
http://www.newswise.com/articles/exploring-gambles-reveals-foundational-difficulty-behind-economic-theory-and-a-solution

Extract: " In the wake of the financial crisis, many started questioning different aspects of the economic formalism.
This included Ole Peters, a Fellow at the London Mathematical Laboratory in the U.K., as well as an external professor at the Santa Fe Institute in New Mexico, and Murray Gell-Mann, a physicist who was awarded the 1969 Nobel Prize in physics for his contributions to the theory of elementary particles by introducing quarks, and is now a Distinguished Fellow at the Santa Fe Institute. They found it particularly curious that a field so central to how we live together as a society seems so unsure about so many of its key questions.

So they asked: Might there be a foundational difficulty underlying our current economic theory? Is there some hidden assumption, possibly hundreds of years old, behind not one but many of the current scientific problems in economic theory? Such a foundational problem could have far-reaching practical consequences because economic theory informs economic policy.

As they report in the journal Chaos, from AIP Publishing, the story that emerged is a fascinating example of scientific history, of how human understanding evolves, gets stuck, gets unstuck, branches, and so on.



The key concepts of time and randomness are at the heart of their work. "Questions of an economic nature stood at the beginning of formal thinking about randomness in the 17th century," he explained. "These are all relatively young concepts -- there's nothing in Euclid about probability theory." Think of it simply in terms of: Should I bet money in a game of dice? How much should I pay for an insurance contract? What would be a fair price for a life annuity?
"All of these questions have something to do with randomness, and the way to deal with them in the 17th century was to imagine parallel worlds representing everything that could happen," Gell-Mann said. "To assess the value of some uncertain venture, an average is taken across those parallel worlds."

This concept was only challenged in the mid-19th century when randomness was used formally in a different context -- physics. "Here, the following perspective arose: to assess some uncertain venture, ask yourself how it will affect you in one world only -- namely the one in which you live -- across time," Gell-Mann continued.

"The first perspective -- considering all parallel worlds -- is the one adopted by mainstream economics," explained Gell-Mann. "The second perspective -- what happens in our world across time -- is the one we explore and that hasn't been fully appreciated in economics so far."
The real impact of this second perspective comes from acknowledging the omission of the key concept of time from previous treatments. "We have some 350 years of economic theory involving randomness in one way only -- by considering parallel worlds," said Peters. "What happens when we switch perspectives is astonishing. Many of the open key problems in economic theory have an elegant solution within our framework."

In terms of applications for their work, its key concept can be used "to derive an entire economic formalism," said Peters. In their article, Peters and Gell-Mann explore the evaluation of a gamble. For example, is this gamble better than that gamble? This is the fundamental problem in economics. And from a conceptually different solution there follows a complete new formalism.
They put it to the test after their friend Ken Arrow -- an economist who was the joint winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences with John Hicks in 1972 -- suggested applying the technique to insurance contracts. "Does our perspective predict or explain the existence of a large insurance market? It does -- unlike general competitive equilibrium theory, which is the current dominant formalism," Peters said.

And so a different meaning of risk emerges -- taking too much risk is not only psychologically uncomfortable but also leads to real dollar losses. "Good risk management really drives performance over time," Peters added. "This is important in the current rethinking of risk controls and financial market infrastructure."

This concept reaches far beyond this realm and into all major branches of economics. "It turns out that the difference between how individual wealth behaves across parallel worlds and how it behaves over time quantifies how wealth inequality changes," explained Peters. "It also enables refining the notion of efficient markets and solving the equity premium puzzle."

One historically important application is the solution of the 303-year-old St. Petersburg paradox, which involves a gamble played by flipping a coin until it comes up tails and the total number of flips, n, determines the prize, which equals $2 to the nth power. "The expected prize diverges -- it doesn't exist," Peters elaborated. "This gamble, suggested by Nicholas Bernoulli, can be viewed as the first rebellion against the dominance of the expectation value -- that average across parallel worlds -- that was established in the second half of the 17th century."

What's the next step for their work? "We're very keen to develop fully the implications for welfare economics and questions of economic inequality. This is a sensitive subject that needs to be dealt with carefully, including empirical work," noted Peters. "Much is being done behind the scenes -- since this is a conceptually different way of doing things, communication is a challenge, and our work has been difficult to publish in mainstream economics journals."

Their results described in Chaos are easily generalized, which is necessary to reinterpret the full formalism. But it "may not add very much in practical terms, and it gets a little technical." So that's a future "to-do item" for Peters and Gell-Mann.

"Our Chaos paper is a recipe for approaching a wide range of problems," said Peters. "So we're now going through the entire formalism with our collaborators to see where else our perspective is useful.""

« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 09:32:03 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2016, 09:29:46 PM »
That Gell-Mann paper is, as usual, very good.

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2016, 10:26:20 PM »
If you are feeling depressed about recent climate change findings, then Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy, MBCT, might be just the ticket (of course MBCT is helpful for other psychological issues associated with Systemic Isolation):

Willem Kuyken et al. Efficacy of Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy in Prevention of Depressive Relapse: An Individual Patient Data Meta-analysis from Randomized Trials. JAMA Psychiatry, April 27, 2016 DOI: 10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2016.0076

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2517515

"Importance  Relapse prevention in recurrent depression is a significant public health problem, and antidepressants are the current first-line treatment approach. Identifying an equally efficacious nonpharmacological intervention would be an important development.

Objective  To conduct a meta-analysis on individual patient data to examine the efficacy of mindfulness-based cognitive therapy (MBCT) compared with usual care and other active treatments, including antidepressants, in treating those with recurrent depression.

Data Sources  English-language studies published or accepted for publication in peer-reviewed journals identified from EMBASE, PubMed/Medline, PsycINFO, Web of Science, Scopus, and the Cochrane Controlled Trials Register from the first available year to November 22, 2014. Searches were conducted from November 2010 to November 2014.

Study Selection  Randomized trials of manualized MBCT for relapse prevention in recurrent depression in full or partial remission that compared MBCT with at least 1 non-MBCT treatment, including usual care.

Data Extraction and Synthesis  This was an update to a previous meta-analysis. We screened 2555 new records after removing duplicates. Abstracts were screened for full-text extraction (S.S.) and checked by another researcher (T.D.). There were no disagreements. Of the original 2555 studies, 766 were evaluated against full study inclusion criteria, and we acquired full text for 8. Of these, 4 studies were excluded, and the remaining 4 were combined with the 6 studies identified from the previous meta-analysis, yielding 10 studies for qualitative synthesis. Full patient data were not available for 1 of these studies, resulting in 9 studies with individual patient data, which were included in the quantitative synthesis.

Results  Of the 1258 patients included, the mean (SD) age was 47.1 (11.9) years, and 944 (75.0%) were female. A 2-stage random effects approach showed that patients receiving MBCT had a reduced risk of depressive relapse within a 60-week follow-up period compared with those who did not receive MBCT (hazard ratio, 0.69; 95% CI, 0.58-0.82). Furthermore, comparisons with active treatments suggest a reduced risk of depressive relapse within a 60-week follow-up period (hazard ratio, 0.79; 95% CI, 0.64-0.97). Using a 1-stage approach, sociodemographic (ie, age, sex, education, and relationship status) and psychiatric (ie, age at onset and number of previous episodes of depression) variables showed no statistically significant interaction with MBCT treatment. However, there was some evidence to suggest that a greater severity of depressive symptoms prior to treatment was associated with a larger effect of MBCT compared with other treatments.

Conclusions and Relevance  Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy appears efficacious as a treatment for relapse prevention for those with recurrent depression, particularly those with more pronounced residual symptoms. Recommendations are made concerning how future trials can address remaining uncertainties and improve the rigor of the field."

See also:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160427150316.htm
&
http://www.news-medical.net/news/20160510/Mindfulness-based-cognitive-therapy-more-beneficial-without-antidepressant-drugs.aspx

For more background on MBCT see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness-based_cognitive_therapy

Extract: "Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy (MBCT) is a psychological therapy designed to aid in preventing the relapse of depression, specifically in individuals with Major depressive disorder (MDD). It uses traditional Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) methods and adds in newer psychological strategies such as mindfulness and mindfulness meditation. Cognitive methods can include educating the participant about depression. Mindfulness and mindfulness meditation, focus on becoming aware of all incoming thoughts and feelings and accepting them, but not attaching or reacting to them. Like CBT, MBCT functions on the theory that when individuals who have historically had depression become distressed, they return to automatic cognitive processes that can trigger a depressive episode. The goal of MBCT is to interrupt these automatic processes and teach the participants to focus less on reacting to incoming stimuli, and instead accepting and observing them without judgment. This mindfulness practice allows the participant to notice when automatic processes are occurring and to alter their reaction to be more of a reflection.
Beyond its use in reducing depressive acuity, research additionally supports the effectiveness of mindfulness meditation upon reducing cravings for substances that people are addicted to. Addiction is known to involve the weakening of the prefrontal cortex that ordinarily allows for delaying of immediate gratification for longer term benefits by the limbic and paralimbic brain regions. Mindfulness meditation of smokers over a two-week period totaling 5 hours of meditation decreased smoking by about 60% and reduced their cravings, even for those smokers in the experiment who had no prior intentions to quit. Neuroimaging of those who practice mindfulness meditation has been shown to increase activity in the prefrontal cortex, a sign of greater self-control."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2016, 10:33:20 PM »
As a follow-on to my last post, Vipassana is an eminently practical form of mindfulness meditation that can help people over-come systemic isolation by means of their own efforts rather than from received dogma:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipassan%C4%81

Extract: "Vipassanā (Pāli) or vipaśyanā … in the Buddhist tradition means insight into the true nature of reality, namely as the Three marks of existence: impermanence, suffering or unsatisfactoriness, and the realisation of non-self.

Vipassanā-meditation is an ancient practice taught by Buddhas, reintroduced by Ledi Sayadaw and Mogok Sayadaw and popularized by Mahasi Sayadaw, S. N. Goenka and the Vipassana movement, in which mindfulness of breathing and of thoughts, feelings and actions are being used to gain insight in the true nature of reality. Due to the popularity of Vipassanā-meditation, the mindfulness of breathing has gained further popularity in the west as mindfulness.



Contemporary Theravada orthodoxy regards samatha as a preparation for vipassanā, pacifying the mind and strengthening the concentration in order to allow the work of insight, which leads to liberation. In contrast, the Vipassana Movement argues that insight levels can be discerned without the need for developing samatha further due to the risks of going out of course when strong samatha is developed.



Vipassanā can be cultivated by the practice that includes contemplation, introspection and observation of bodily sensations, analytic meditation and observations on life experiences like death and decomposition. The practices may differ in the modern Buddhist traditions and non-sectarian groups according to the founder but the main objective is to develop insight.



In the Vipassanā Movement, the emphasis is on the Satipatthana Sutta and the use of mindfulness to gain insight into the impermanence of the self-view."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

ivica

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 499
  • Kelele
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2016, 10:42:56 PM »
I'll Survive Everything (Sve ću preživit)

Lyrics.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 10:49:23 PM by ivica »

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2016, 12:37:05 AM »
As my last post mentions the Satipatthana Sutta, I provide the following link and extract:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satipatthana_Sutta

Extract: "In this sutta, the Buddha identifies four references for establishing mindfulness (satipatthana): body, sensations (or feelings), mind (or consciousness) and mental contents.

These are then further broken down into the following sections and subsections:

1.   Body (Kāyā)
o   Breathing (also see the Anapanasati Sutta)
o   Postures (Walking, Standing, Sitting, Lying Down)
o   Clear Comprehending
o   Reflections on Repulsiveness of the Body
o   Reflections on Material Elements
o   Cemetery Contemplations

2.   Sensations/Feelings (Vedanā)
o   pleasant or unpleasant or neither-pleasant-nor-unpleasant (neutral) feelings
o   worldly or spiritual feelings

3.   Mind/Consciousness (Cittā)
o   lust (sarāgaṃ) or without lust (vītarāgaṃ)
o   hate (sadosaṃ) or without hate (vītadosaṃ)
o   delusion (samohaṃ) or without delusion (vītamohaṃ)
o   contracted (saṅkhittaṃ) or scattered (vikkhittaṃ)
o   lofty (mahaggataṃ) or not lofty (amahaggataṃ)
o   surpassable (sa-uttaraṃ) or unsurpassed (anuttaraṃ)
o   quieted (samāhitaṃ) or not quieted (asamāhitaṃ)
o   released (vimuttaṃ) or not released (avimuttaṃ)

4.   Mental Contents (Dhammā)
o   The Hindrances
o   The Aggregates of Clinging
o   The Sense-Bases and their Fetters
o   The Factors of Enlightenment
o   The Four Noble Truths

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2016, 02:14:52 AM »
Since this is in the "Open Threads" folder, and as I just mentioned that Vipassana mindfulness meditation was taught by the Buddha, I thought that I would note that it is commonly thought that next bodhisattva would be born 5,000 years after the Buddha's decease [see the first link for Metteyya (in Pali or Maitreya in Sanskrit)]:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Metteyya

   Extract: "Maitreya - the Bodhisattva who is to appear as a Buddha 5000 years after the death of Gautama"

Further the 5,000 year period cited above is commonly calculated as the sum of the five 1,000 year periods described by the Buddha (in the Pali Canon) as to what will happen after his parinibbaana (or death), as follows:

"After my decease first will be the decline and ending of my teachings. This will happen in five stages as follows:

1. The disappearance of the attainments
2. The disappearance of the method
3. The disappearance of the learning
4. The disappearance of the symbols
5. The disappearance of the relics."

Further, the Buddha said that after His parinibbaana, only for 1,000 years will the monks be able to acquire the analytical knowledge (Patisambhida), or what we know as Arahanthship or deep knowledge. Then, as time goes on, they will only be able to attain Anaagami (Never return). And then only Sakadagami (Once return), and finally, only Sotapanna (Stream enterer). With the death of the last disciple who has attained Sotapanna, the attainments will disappear.

However, several years after the Buddha made the previous statement about the timing of how his teaching would decline, he allowed women to join the monkhood, and (per the Pali Canon) he told his cousin Ananda the following:

“If, Ananda, women had not retired from the household life to the houseless one, under the doctrine and discipline announced by the Tathagata, Dharma Ananda would long endure; a thousand years would the good Dharma abide.  But since, Ananda, women have now retired from the household life to the houseless one, under the doctrine and the discipline announced by the Tathagata, not long Ananda, will Dharma endure; but five hundred years Ananda, until the Dharma abide” (Vinya Pitaka II. 253 ff).

This second statement likely changes the period from the Buddha's parinibbaana until Metteyya's birth from five times 1,000-years to five times 500-years.  And as a majority of twentieth-century historians date the Buddha's lifetime from 563 B.C.E. to 483 B.C.E., this might (or might not) indicate the following timeline:

1. The disappearance of the attainments: 483 BCE to 17AD, with end of Patisambhida (or end of deep knowledge).  E.g.: Jesus

2. The disappearance of the method: 17AD to 517AD, with end of Anaagami (Never return).  E.g.: Ashin Buddhaghosa 370AD to 450AB

3. The disappearance of the learning: 517AD to 1017AD, with end of Skadagami (Once return).  E.g.: Mohammed

4. The disappearance of the symbols: 1017AD to 1517AD, with end of Sotapanna (Stream enterers). E.g.: Tao

5. The disappearance of the relics: 1517AD to 2017AD, E.g.: birth of Metteyya


Edit: Just for fun (& only for fun) I note that per the linked wikipedia site Isaac Newton estimated that Jesus might have died on April 3 33AD at an age of about 33-years old

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Jesus#Newton.27s_method

See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 03:46:54 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2016, 07:38:17 PM »
The linked article discusses how if key state attorneys general offices issue guidance on how investment trustees should address the risks to investors of global efforts to keep fossil fuels in the ground, then the floodgates of divestment could be opened wide (otherwise the investment trustees could be subject to litigation just like ExxonMobil).  This would effective put a top to investors externalizing their risk on others (which is a "moral hazard" associated with "othering"); which would work to reduce Systemic Isolation:

http://insideclimatenews.org/news/07062016/retired-lawyer-boris-longstreth-floodgates-divestment-fossil-fuels-climate-change-investments?utm_source=Inside+Climate+News&utm_campaign=9878c9af46-Weekly_Newsletter_Week_of_4_114_15_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_29c928ffb5-9878c9af46-326462105

Extract: "With the world heading toward zero carbon emissions after the signing of the Paris agreement, Longstreth thinks it's time for some fresh guidance.
To that end, he's working channels to convince various attorneys general to spell out those risks in an "interpretive release," and offer guidance on how to handle them. He thinks the attorneys general of New York, Massachusetts and California will be most receptive to his proposal.
If the guidance is published, Longstreth says, it could open floodgates of divestment from coal, oil and gas companies. That's because, as he explains in the extensive interview below, it can't be ignored.
Every state in the union (except Pennsylvania and the territory of Puerto Rico) has its own version of the uniform law governing investments by trustees, known by the acronym UPMIFA. And each attorney general has power to issue guidance on how to exercise prudence under that uniform law.
The question remains whether any attorney general would offer guidance singling out a particular asset class."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2016, 08:21:01 PM »
The linked Global Research article by Asoka Bandarage, Ph.D. [author of Sustainability and Well-Being: The Middle Path to Environment, Society and the Economy (Palgrave MacMillan, 2013)], entitled: "Climate, Consciousness and Social Change", effectively conveys many of the points that I am trying to make in this thread on the need to overcome Systemic Isolationist thinking in human consciousness and behavior (which I suggest could benefit by the application of mindfulness meditation):

http://www.globalresearch.ca/climate-consciousness-and-social-change/5530615


Extract: "The capitalist system has brought forth tremendous advances in material development but without balanced human inner development. When corporate profit prevails over social, environmental and ethical criteria, production and marketing of goods and services with negative use values become common. Thus, defense has become the biggest sector of the global economy and fossil fuel extraction continues despite overwhelming evidence of its harm to life on the planet. Even when solutions are sought to problems created by market expansion, economic growth and the profit motive prevail as evident from the trade in carbon pollution poised to become a highly profitable financial sector.

The modern economy disrupts and dissects the natural integration of planetary life seeking instead to reintegrate, recreate and control human society and the environment through modern science, technology, and the market. The extension of this approach is clearly evident in current technological and market developments to redesign life and to create, what some scientists call a ‘post-nature’, ‘post-human’ world.
Genetic modification is projected to become the norm as more and more bioengineered transgenic fruits, vegetables, trees, and animals are released into the environment. According to some scientists, in 50 years there could be more lab-created forms of plant and animal life on the planet than those identified in nature. Is this, then, the technological and market based solution to species extinction resulting from climate change, deforestation and other human induced changes to the environment?  Likewise, as earth-based indigenous people and communities in low lying coastal areas are extinguished from the face of the Earth, genetic engineering, robotics, artificial intelligence and other new types of cognitive tools are being utilized by some scientists to design a new human species increasingly merged with technologyand more and more divorced from nature.
As the environment and humanity become mere resources and appendages of technology and the economy, we face an existential crisis of what it means to be human in nature. The visions of technological domination over nature fail to recognize that if the climate is not stabilized, we will unleash long term planetary forces far beyond our capacity to control. Human induced natural forces, such as droughts, wildfires and floods will once again come to dominate and radically curtail our activities, as they appear to be doing already. As Karl Polyani warned in The Great Transformation: “ To allow the market mechanism to be the sole director of the fate of human beings and their natural environment…would result in the demolition of society.”
The contemporary global crisis, however, is more than a crisis of capitalism, a competition between capitalism and socialism, or a clash between modernity and tradition. Our challenge today is not merely political, but human and ecological—how we see and conduct ourselves personally and collectively toward both the environment and each other.
Technology and the market per se are not the problems. It is the underlying consciousness and the intention that determine their advancement. Is the motivation, profit for a few or the sustainability and well-being of all? At the root of the crisis we face is the disjuncture between the exponential growth of the profit-driven economy and the lack of an equivalent development in human consciousness, ethics and morality, compassion, generosity and wisdom.

Today, “ego consciousness” and its ethics of individualism, domination, and competition is the driving force at the personal level as well as at the societal levels of nations, ethno-religious groups, and in how humans relate toward other animal and life forms.  This myopic consciousness is leading to massive destruction of the environment, widening economic disparities and social conflicts. The alternative to ego consciousness, rooted in the psychology of fear and ‘self vs. other’ mentality, is a universal consciousness grounded in the truth of unity within diversity. This higher consciousness sees the other as an extension of the self and the well-being of the self and the other as inherently interdependent. It contributes to an ethic of partnership.
The challenge today is not to tear apart the dominant social and economic system through left or right political extremism but to shift to an ethical, balanced and sustainable path that upholds genuine climate protection, environmental sustainability, social justice and democracy. We need to shift to a path of socio-economic development grounded on compassion, courage and generosity instead of fear, anger and hatred. The dominant egoistic consciousness overlooks the capacity of the human mind for conscious transformation."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2016, 07:21:30 PM »
I opened this thread on Systemic Isolation, with references to "The Matrix", as illustrated by the first attached image of Cypher proclaiming that "Ignorance is bliss!" 

In this regards, in the "Adapting to the Anthropocene" thread (see the first link), I noted "… that in addition to increased education and open sourcing of AI code, I believe that the increased use of mindfulness meditation is perhaps the single best defense against the potential ill effects of AI." 

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1308.150.html#lastPost

Also, I noted that:
"To help you adapt quickly enough to meet the challenges of both the Anthropocene and the technological singularity, there is now a Singularity University online covering technology, science, health and future impacts with linked articles "

http://singularityu.org/overview/

See also:
http://singularityhub.com/2016/06/17/long-promised-artificial-intelligence-is-looming-and-its-going-to-be-amazing/

&

http://singularityhub.com/2016/06/14/what-happens-if-society-is-too-slow-to-absorb-technological-change/?utm_source=Trending&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=content%20access
&

http://singularityhub.com/2016/06/18/this-weeks-awesome-stories-from-around-the-web-through-june-18th/?utm_source=Latest&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=content%20access

The next two linked articles provide yet another example of the pace at which we are moving towards a "Matrix" like experience (as an extension beyond the materialistic socio-economic system that most of us are already addicted to (and habituated to) as illustrated by the Cypher analogy in the first image).  Here Zuckerberg notes that Facebook is working technology to facilitate people interfacing with computers (and the associated Internet of Things) using thoughts

http://www.inc.com/kevin-j-ryan/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-communicating-by-telepathy.html

Extract: "Welcome to the mind of Mark Zuckerberg. Speaking via video Tuesday on Facebook Live, the founder said he thinks telepathy is the future of communication--and, presumably, of his own company.

"You're going to just be able to capture a thought," Zuckerberg said, "what you're thinking or feeling in kind of its ideal and perfect form in your head, and be able to share that with the world in a format where they can get that."

Facebook has upped its involvement in futuristic technology recently. Earlier this month, the company announced the creation of Deep Text, an artificial intelligence system that will be able to read people's messages and understand the meaning behind them. The company's Oculus Rift virtual reality headsets began shipping in March, weeks after a photo of a smiling Zuckerberg strode through a crowd of headset-wearing audience members at a VR conference in Barcelona. (The image prompted critics to describe the scene as something out of The Matrix or as the vision of a future "dystopian overlord.")"

https://thehackednews.com/2016/06/mark-zuckerberg-says-well-living-matrix-another-50-years/

Extract: "Mark says that life will become like ‘The Matrix’; that isn’t appealing news for anyone sane. He also revealed that scientific research is already happening to shape this idea into reality. Scientists have found a way to remove the memory of solving a maze from one rodent’s head and planting it into another’s.

Zuckerberg talked of another University experiment where your thoughts can be interpreted by carrying out an MRI scan. He wants the human mind to become an open book and believes it will be achieved within 50 years; fortunately that’s a long time from now!"

However, Zuckerberg's estimate that such technology will be achieve in 50 years likely errs on the side of least drama, as both Ray Kurzweil and Elon Musk are working on "neural lace" (see the "Adapting to the Anthropocene" thread) or DNA based nanotechnology that can be injected into the bloodstream to wirelessly connect the brain to computers.

The next link linked article suggests that the use of blockchain technology (see the Wikipedia link after the bitcoinist article link) when combined with AI/machine learning and quantum computing, will likely accelerate our trend towards a "Matrix-like state", while the article also notes Elon Musk believes that we may already be living in such a "Matrix-like" universe. 

http://bitcoinist.net/blockchain-as-the-matrix/

Extract: "Our world is trending towards a Matrix-like state, and blockchains are acting as a lubricant fuel down an admittedly slippery slope. The internet of things, RFID tags, robotics, augmented reality gaming, and increasingly smooth integration into smart-phone applications will increase our collective reliance on blockchain technology as a backbone storage layer for the internet. Advancement here is accelerating, as projects such as Ethereum, TheDAO, Hyperledger, Ripple, Steemit, and Synereo all demonstrate the growing set of offerings in the blockchain buffet.

Through automating data storage and building within this programmatic infrastructure, we are creating a functional, immensely computationally powerful, decision making platform and digital toolkit for automating nearly any other traditional job function, decision or management procedure that required tracking data, from logistics to accounting to email and social media oversight. As blockchain is combined with artificial intelligence, machine learning, and potentially even quantum computing, it becomes gradually clear that Blockchain truly could be an ancient version of Skynet.

“Arguably we should hope that that’s true, because if civilization stops advancing, that may be due to some calamitous event that erases civilization,” Musk said. “So maybe we should be hopeful this is a simulation, because otherwise we are going to create simulations indistinguishable from reality or civilization ceases to exist. We’re unlikely to go into some multimillion-year stasis,” Mr. Musk remarked."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_chain_(database)

Extract: "A blockchain—originally, block chain—is a distributed database that maintains a continuously-growing list of data records hardened against tampering and revision. It consists of data structure blocks—which hold exclusively data in initial blockchain implementations, and both data and programs in some of the more recent implementations—with each block holding batches of individual transactions and the results of any blockchain executables. Each block contains a timestamp and information linking it to a previous block."

In the Adapting to the Anthropocene I have previously discussed what I called the Holoberg Interpretation (as contracted to the Copenhagen Interpretation, or the Many Worlds Interpretation, of Quantum Field Theory) of a holographic universe that has blockchain like characteristics (in that information is distributed through-out the system), and in which time, space, matter and energy are all "constructs" of individual points of  interconnected "freewill" forming a Matrix-like universe that one can become one (i.e. Nibanna/Nirvana ) with by eliminating the "Systemic Isolation" of pre-conditioned constructs via mindfulness meditation.

It is my personal opinion that the great majority of people (including people like Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Ray Kurzweil, Larry Page, etc.) misinterpret most of the underlying messages of "The Matrix" as illustrated by the second attached image of the Oracle stating: "We can never see past the choices that we don't understand" and the third image where she says to Neo: "You didn't come here to make the choice.  You've already made it.  You're here to try to understand why you made it."  Also, I provide the fourth image where Morpheus says to Neo: "Sooner or later you're gonna realize, just like I did… There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."

This is why I have previously provided information about mindfulness meditation and about Metteyya, as the current human mind (either with, or without, technological enhancement), can see past the pre-conditioned constructs of the holographic universe, to become liberated from "Systemic Isolation".
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Laurent

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2515
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2016, 07:31:12 PM »
.

TerryM

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2016, 01:12:00 AM »
"You're going to just be able to capture a thought," Zuckerberg said, "what you're thinking or feeling in kind of its ideal and perfect form in your head, and be able to share that with the world in a format where they can get that."


"We're going to just be able to capture your thoughts." Zuckerberg thought, "what you're thinking or feeling in kind of it's ideal and perfect form in your head, and we'll be able to sell that to other world leaders in a format where they can get at it."

(The above was a "Thought Capture" tm, brought to you by Know Thy Neighbor, a subsidiary of All things Bright and Beautiful, not associated with Big Brother's Goons are Good Inc..)



Stylish tin foil bonnets for the ladies, Faraday cage helmets for gents & perhaps a continuous barrage of small EMP producing nuclear explosions over Washington to shield all from the innermost thoughts of our fearless leaders.


Seriously, this is one of the scariest, dystopian futures imaginable. I would prefer the loss of all the advantages that electronics has brought, to having my thoughts captured, broadcast, and undoubtedly filed away by TPTB.


I'm convinced that civilization is teetering on the edge at present, and if the future of our civilization holds the possibility of 'thought capture'  (Zuckerberg's term), perhaps we shouldn't miss it's passing. What's the value of 5,000 years of plodding advancement, if it culminates in the enslavement of everyone.


Orwell would be horrified!
Terry

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2016, 02:02:24 AM »
As it is Father's Day in the USA, and as I seem to have managed to disturb a few readers, I provide now a link to Andrew Chignell (an associate professor of philosophy at Cornell University) 2015 article entitled: "Expectation and Hope in the Anthropocene".  This article presents birth and the associated coming generations as providing hope in face of the dystopian narratives of the Anthropocene that I have been referencing


http://faith.yale.edu/sites/default/files/expectation_and_hope_0.pdf


Extract: "In the dystopian narratives of the Anthropocene, the human being is replaced by "homo consumens, that other-than-human assemblage of humans, technology, fossil fuels, and capitalist relations.”



Buck joins some of her colleagues in expecting the Anthropocene to end badly via some
combination of economic and environmental collapse.


If the Anthropocene were not an anthology of scary tales, drawn from an awkward bricolage of science and preternatural fears, what else could it be?

The question turns us away from the usual expectations regarding the “rapacious antagonist of
the horror stories who has shaped environments in a variety of ways throughout history.”  It is
also meant to evoke hope for a less likely but still possible future in which “human traits like
tending, altruism, creativity, art and craftsmanship, and cooperation reclaim their status as
basic human nature.”



In sum: by denying expectation in order to leave room for hope (i.e. by not conflating the two),
we honor the reasonable, liturgical, and genuinely religious form of life that is still available to
those who aren’t able, for whatever reason, to be true believers.  We also highlight some
intriguing cross-disciplinary directions for future philosophical research. "

Edit: I note that in the Holoberg Interpretation, where time is a pre-conditioned construct, future generations are merely re-configurations of freewill interface patterns within a holographic universe.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 07:33:54 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Laurent

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2515
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2016, 09:45:29 AM »
A lot of religious blabla ! what is there behind... I wonder...

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2016, 04:29:02 PM »
A lot of religious blabla ! what is there behind... I wonder...

I hear a lot of "me, me, me ..." egotistical babble throughout all of the threads (not just in the Open Threads) & I wonder with so many posters only concerned about their own personal well-being, how we will make much headway against climate change.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

magnamentis

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 834
    • View Profile
    • Nexpaq Modular ARA iOS Software Mobile Computing Phones Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multipelsklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgie
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2016, 04:59:31 PM »
+1

this vicarious for dozens of other posts, missing the like button each time :-)

most of your posts clearly show that you try to get down to the roots of things while there is so much
superficial back and forth with the sole intention to "also have something to tell"
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

Laurent

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2515
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2016, 06:57:06 PM »
AbruptSLR do not take it too personally. I have an other vision of the situation, the "me, me, me" is not the problem just a little part of it, and it can be part of the solution for the future. The main problem we have is our economy based on science and technology, we will have to downscale that pretty fast if we want to avoid total extinction. The main resistance is not the "me, me, me" as some religions would be prompt to point, the problem is families, big families, everywhere, even here in Europe and US. Mainly here I should say, we are not in democracy and it is not the stronger individual that win as what is commonly said (by religions also). Our system is based on families strong families, Rotchild, Clinton, Arnaud, Bettencourt, Mulliez, Dassault, Pinault... They are the problem, would they downscale volontarily as an individual could do... euh my little me think no, they won't. That is why we are hearing so much green-washing, the fact is our system is waiting for the crash, trying to get as much of what will be available after(land, financial asset, etc...). It is not the poorest that will benefit, you can be sure of it, but mainly these families that can protect their fortune in bank paradises. Does religions speak about it... no they don't... they won't...  I think you are right mindfulness is part of the solution, the only problem I have with that is it does speak only of mind, when it should be body and mind, body and mind fullness.

Counting on AI to solve the problem is not a good idea, we should think of protecting life all the lives not only the richest humans.

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2016, 07:09:10 PM »
The main resistance is not the "me, me, me" as some religions would be prompt to point, the problem is families, big families, everywhere, even here in Europe and US. Mainly here I should say, we are not in democracy and it is not the stronger individual that win as what is commonly said (by religions also). Our system is based on families strong families, Rotchild, Clinton, Arnaud, Bettencourt, Mulliez, Dassault, Pinault... They are the problem, would they downscale volontarily as an individual could do... euh my little me think no, they won't.

...

Counting on AI to solve the problem is not a good idea, we should think of protecting life all the lives not only the richest humans.

Laurent,

First, I extend "me me me" thinking to "my my my" thinking, as in my family, my tribe, my race; so crony (including strong families) capitalism is an extension of me/my thinking.

Second, AI is coming whether we like it or not, so we might as well think about how to get the best out of it (while acknowledging the potential for the worse).

Best,
ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2016, 04:59:13 PM »
Denialists (representing Systemic Isolationist thinking) act as though they are negotiating with an authority and that in that negotiation the party that cares the least has the most power (think of Wall Street negotiating with the US Federal Government for a bailout after the 2008 financial collapse, and/or think of the partisan politics in Washington DC over appropriate climate change policy, with the two parties vying for public approval of their control of Federal policies).  However, in reality Gaia is the higher authority that humanity is negotiating with, and in that negotiation Gaia is the party that cares the least as to what happens to humanity (see attached cartoon).
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 05:08:55 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2016, 01:22:25 AM »
To overcome the problem of self-aggrandizement resulting from System Isolation (i.e. veering too far in either direction from the "middle path" where yin-yang is in balance), as a global society we must learn to create sustainable order from a chaotic reality (see the first attached image).  I have previously cited the role of machine learning (& AI) in this process; however, AI is just a sub-set of systems theory (see the discuss of complex adaptive systems (CAS) in the first linked Wikipedia article and the associated second attached image).  Furthermore, I note that "systems theory" is synonymous with "cybernetics", and there are many lessons that can be used from such research that can be applied towards the goal of achieving a sustainable global socio-economic system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory

Extract: "Cybernetics is the study of the communication and control of regulatory feedback both in living and lifeless systems (organisms, organizations, machines), and in combinations of those. Its focus is how anything (digital, mechanical or biological) controls its behavior, processes information, reacts to information, and changes or can be changed to better accomplish those three primary tasks.
The terms "systems theory" and "cybernetics" have been widely used as synonyms.

Complex adaptive systems (CAS) are special cases of complex systems. They are complex in that they are diverse and composed of multiple, interconnected elements; they are adaptive in that they have the capacity to change and learn from experience. In contrast to control systems in which negative feedback dampens and reverses disequilibria, CAS are often subject to positive feedback, which magnifies and perpetuates changes, converting local irregularities into global features. Another mechanism, Dual-phase evolution arises when connections between elements repeatedly change, shifting the system between phases of variation and selection that reshape the system.
The term complex adaptive system was coined at the interdisciplinary Santa Fe Institute (SFI), by John H. Holland, Murray Gell-Mann and others. An alternative conception of complex adaptive (and learning) systems, methodologically at the interface between natural and social science, has been presented by Kristo Ivanov in terms of hypersystems. This concept intends to offer a theoretical basis for understanding and implementing participation of "users", decisions makers, designers and affected actors, in the development or maintenance of self-learning systems."

Also, I provide the following second link to a Wikipedia article on complex systems research where models of such complex systems uses formulae from chaos theory, statistical physics, information theory and non-linear dynamics.  Per the following extract: "Many real complex systems are, in practice and over long but finite time periods, robust. However, they do possess the potential for radical qualitative change of kind whilst retaining systemic integrity. Metamorphosis serves as perhaps more than a metaphor for such transformations."  Such insights are useful when considering the transformation of our current BAU based global socio-economic system, into what we will collectively become:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_systems

Extract: "Complex systems present problems both in mathematical modelling and philosophical foundations. The study of complex systems represents a new approach to science that investigates how relationships between parts give rise to the collective behaviors of a system and how the system interacts and forms relationships with its environment.
The equations from which models of complex systems are developed generally derive from statistical physics, information theory and non-linear dynamics and represent organized but unpredictable behaviors of natural systems that are considered fundamentally complex. The physical manifestations of such systems are difficult to define, so a common choice is to identify "the system" with the mathematical information model rather than referring to the undefined physical subject the model represents.

Complexity and modeling
One of Hayek's main contributions to early complexity theory is his distinction between the human capacity to predict the behaviour of simple systems and its capacity to predict the behaviour of complex systems through modeling. He believed that economics and the sciences of complex phenomena in general, which in his view included biology, psychology, and so on, could not be modeled after the sciences that deal with essentially simple phenomena like physics. Hayek would notably explain that complex phenomena, through modeling, can only allow pattern predictions, compared with the precise predictions that can be made out of non-complex phenomena.

Complexity and chaos theory
Complexity theory is rooted in chaos theory, which in turn has its origins more than a century ago in the work of the French mathematician Henri Poincaré. Chaos is sometimes viewed as extremely complicated information, rather than as an absence of order. Chaotic systems remain deterministic, though their long-term behavior can be difficult to predict with any accuracy. With perfect knowledge of the initial conditions and of the relevant equations describing the chaotic system's behavior, one can theoretically make perfectly accurate predictions about the future of the system, though in practice this is impossible to do with arbitrary accuracy. Ilya Prigogine argued that complexity is non-deterministic, and gives no way whatsoever to precisely predict the future.
The emergence of complexity theory shows a domain between deterministic order and randomness which is complex. This is referred as the "edge of chaos".
When one analyzes complex systems, sensitivity to initial conditions, for example, is not an issue as important as within the chaos theory in which it prevails. As stated by Colander, the study of complexity is the opposite of the study of chaos. Complexity is about how a huge number of extremely complicated and dynamic sets of relationships can generate some simple behavioral patterns, whereas chaotic behavior, in the sense of deterministic chaos, is the result of a relatively small number of non-linear interactions.
Therefore, the main difference between chaotic systems and complex systems is their history. Chaotic systems do not rely on their history as complex ones do. Chaotic behaviour pushes a system in equilibrium into chaotic order, which means, in other words, out of what we traditionally define as 'order'. On the other hand, complex systems evolve far from equilibrium at the edge of chaos. They evolve at a critical state built up by a history of irreversible and unexpected events, which physicist Murray Gell-Mann called "an accumulation of frozen accidents." In a sense chaotic systems can be regarded as a subset of complex systems distinguished precisely by this absence of historical dependence. Many real complex systems are, in practice and over long but finite time periods, robust. However, they do possess the potential for radical qualitative change of kind whilst retaining systemic integrity. Metamorphosis serves as perhaps more than a metaphor for such transformations."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2016, 11:42:37 AM »
As a follow-on to my last post on "Systems Theory" and "Complex Systems" modeling, I provide the open access linked reference that uses technology substitution dynamic modeling within an Integrated Assessment Model, IAM, of the electricity sector.  This somewhat limited application of dynamic modeling indicates both the high likelihood that we will exceed the 2C limit this century, and that consideration of regional impacts of climate change is critical when assessing likely damage assessments:

A. M. Foley, P. B. Holden, N. R. Edwards, J.-F. Mercure, P. Salas, H. Pollitt, and U. Chewpreecha (2016), "Climate model emulation in an integrated assessment framework: a case study for mitigation policies in the electricity sector", Earth Syst. Dynam., 7, 119–132, doi:10.5194/esd-7-119-2016


http://www.earth-syst-dynam.net/7/119/2016/esd-7-119-2016.pdf

Abstract. We present a carbon-cycle–climate modelling framework using model emulation, designed for integrated assessment modelling, which introduces a new emulator of the carbon cycle (GENIEem).We demonstrate that GENIEem successfully reproduces the CO2 concentrations of the Representative Concentration Pathways when forced with the corresponding CO2 emissions and non-CO2 forcing. To demonstrate its application as part of the integrated assessment framework, we use GENIEem along with an emulator of the climate (PLASIMENTSem) to evaluate global CO2 concentration levels and spatial temperature and precipitation response patterns resulting from CO2 emission scenarios. These scenarios are modelled using a macroeconometric model (E3MG) coupled to a model of technology substitution dynamics (FTT), and represent different emissions reduction policies applied solely in the electricity sector, without mitigation in the rest of the economy. The effect of cascading uncertainty is apparent, but despite uncertainties, it is clear that in all scenarios, global mean temperatures in excess of 2 oC above pre-industrial levels are projected by the end of the century. Our approach also highlights the regional temperature and precipitation patterns associated with the global mean temperature change occurring in these scenarios, enabling more robust impacts modelling and emphasizing the necessity of focusing on spatial patterns in addition to global mean temperature change.

Finally, while "Systems Theory" and "Complex Systems" modeling is only beginning to be applied to climate change modeling, I note that even more dynamic progress is being made in the area of the regulation of DNA gene expression (a complex system critical to life):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_gene_expression
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2016, 05:02:56 AM »
In order to overcoming systemic isolation people will need to focus on something that they care about, and with nearly 7.5 billion different people (& counting, see link below) on the planet all caring about different things, the only way that we are going to deal with the challenges of climate change better is for people to learn to care about reality.


http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/


Edit: For the record, reality is constantly changing, so to care about reality one needs to stay current/informed.  For instance the world population as of June 2016 is well above 7.4 billion, but according to the attached projection (from the linked site) the world population will likely grow to 11 billion by 2090, unless the balance of Earth System limits and new technology limits us to a lower population.

Edit 2: As a note, some experts believe that the carrying capacity of the Earth is between 9 and 10 billion people.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 05:36:38 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2016, 05:30:10 PM »
As a follow-on to my last post, the estimate of a carrying capacity for Earth of between 9 to 10 billion people assumes rapid technological advances comparable to the Fourth Industrial Revolution discussed at Davos this past winter.  Without such technological advances the long-term carrying capacity of the Earth is probably closer to between 4.5 & 5 billion people (see extract below), so at something under 7.5 billion today we are already borrowing against the future and gambling that the wheels won't come of the bus before the Fourth Industrial Revolution is complete.  Nevertheless, even assuming that multiple technological miracles (including rapid increases in sustainable energy) will occur in the next few decades, this will likely just allow more population increase into the 80% CL range indicated in the attached UN image; which of course would keep us on a BAU pathway even if we exceed the currently envisioned Paris Pact measures.  What is required is that we (or more likely future generations) over-come our culture of Systemic Isolation, and learn to interact in a much more sustainable manner:



http://worldpopulationhistory.org/carrying-capacity/

Extract: "Our Ecological Footprint
One way to address the challenges associated with making future projections is to look at current human impact on the planet. The ecological footprint is a measurement of the anthropogenic impact on earth. It tracks how much biocapacity (biological capacity) there is and how much biocapacity people use by comparing the rate at which we consume natural resources and generate waste to the planet’s ability to replenish those resources and absorb waste. Today, our global footprint is in overshoot. It would take 1.5 Earths to sustain our current population. If current trends continue, we will reach 3 Earths by the year 2050.
 
Where Do We Grow From Here?
Our planet does not have the biocapacity to sustain our current levels of growth and resource consumption. So, what can be done to minimize our collective impact on the environment? In his book, How Many People Can the Earth Support?, mathematical biologist Joel Cohen classifies current solutions into three paradigms: those looking for a “bigger pie” (improving technology), those advocating for “fewer forks” (slowing population growth), and those looking to rationalize and improve decision-making though “better manners” (changing global culture). Cohen argues that, standing along, each paradigm is necessary in solving our environmental crisis, but not sufficient. Change must come from a combination of all three. “Promoting access to contraceptives, developing economies, saving children, empowering women, educating men, and doing it all at once,” he writes, is a way to both lower our impact on the planet and improve the quality of life for all. Perhaps Oxford economist Robert Cassen said it best, “Virtually everything that needs doing from a population perspective needs doing anyway”. Adopting human-centered initiatives targeted at addressing both population growth and consumption habits, ranging from the individual to trans-national level, are our best hope for achieving a sustainable future."

See also:
https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability?language=en
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 06:56:38 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2016, 06:53:29 PM »
To overcome Systemic Isolation we need to acknowledge our vulnerabilities to an ever changing reality:
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Laurent

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2515
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2016, 09:31:09 PM »
The Author of this quote is :

“I think I fall in love a little bit with anyone who shows me their soul. This world is so guarded and fearful. I appreciate rawness so much.”

― Emery Allen

Some other quotes from her : http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/7467647.Emery_Allen

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2016, 12:37:31 AM »
In 2015 overshoot day was on August 13, per the linked website in 2016 it will be on August 8th.  I doubt very much that this trend follows a linear function (see attached plot):

http://www.overshootday.org/

Extract: "On August 8, 2016, we will have used as much from nature as our planet can renew in the whole year. We use more ecological resources and services than nature can regenerate through overfishing, overharvesting forests and emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than forests can sequester. The consequences of this “overshoot” include shrinking biodiversity, collapsed fisheries, eroded topsoil and climate change."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2016, 08:36:54 PM »
The linked article indicates that scientific compartmentalization (systemic isolation) is critical to excellence, and that before scientific specialists can more effectively contribute to the fight against complex (interdisciplinary) problems like climate change, it is incumbent upon society to develop a proper & sustained framework for doing so (here I note that deep learning for AI similarly requires a pre-programmed software framework before it starts identifying and reinforcing pattern recognition activities):

http://theconversation.com/science-in-silos-isnt-such-a-bad-thing-43325

Extract: "Specialisation and compartmentalisation are critical to excellence. The human body is organised into specialised organs for a reason, and it could not operate if everything were blended into an interdisciplinary soup.

So let those who work in silos climb up and look out to make alliances only when there is a proper strategy and a sustained plan for doing so."

Furthermore, the linked "The Guardian" article discusses how difficult to lure specialized researchers out of their comfort zones (system isolation) to better address climate change in an interdisciplinary manner to create a "nexus" of new possible solutions to this "wick problem"

https://www.theguardian.com/science/political-science/2014/jun/11/science-policy-research-silos-interdisciplinarity

Extract: "The 'nexus' is the latest buzzword intended to lure researchers out of their disciplinary comfort zones and get them working together on the big challenges of the day. But how easy is it in practice?"

Also, the previous "The Guardian" article provides a link (see the following link) to a discussion on how "Transdisciplinarity" could be used to better engage society to develop an interactive framework (agora) required to assist the development of scientific solutions that better address climate change in a timely manner

http://www.helga-nowotny.eu/downloads/helga_nowotny_b59.pdf

Extract: "Over the last decades more and more inputs, including those from various pressure groups, have been brought to bear on the problem formulation, design and completion of large-scale projects. That makes sense to us. But there is more to it. This ethos now has acquired a kind of feedback loop in that the engineers now realise that you get a better technical solution if you bring in these views. This is quite a revolutionary interpretation of transdisciplinarity. It implies that more involvement on the part of society means not a better social solution, or a better adapted solution, or one that brings social tranquillity to a community, but a better technical solution. Could not the same conclusion be applied right across the scientific spectrum: that better scientific solutions emerge if there is dialogue with society than if there is not?

By now, it is perfectly accepted and considered highly desirable across a wide spectrum of institutions, from industry to policy makers, that innovation and much of what is the thrust behind innovation, comes from new links between producers of knowledge and the so called users. By now, it is perfectly accepted and considered highly desirable across a wide spectrum of institutions, from industry to policy makers, that innovation and much of what is the thrust behind innovation, comes from new links between producers of knowledge and the so called users.

What could be the appropriate structure in which a debate of this kind might take place? Going back to an old Greek term, we call it the agora. It requires the management of complexity in a public space, which is neither state, nor market, neither public, nor private, but all of this in different configurations. Indeed, the agora is everywhere. It is in your mind as much as in social or public political settings, in corporate structures or in the rules of governance as much as inside laboratories and how we relate to each other. It still recognizes disciplines, but it has moved beyond them to engage with - whom? - the imaginary layperson and imagined users, the public, citizens, in short, what we take to be society to whom we all belong."

For example, the linked article notes that many nobel laureates are encouraging Greenpeace to back off of its opposition to the use of GMO foods in order to better address current and future hunger/nutrition in the world.  However, this will result in a feedback for increased world population which will require an "agora" of how to either provide negative feedbacks for world population, or plans for reduced consumption, or adaptive measures for dealing with the coming societal collapse associated with over consumption:


https://mic.com/articles/147772/nobel-laureates-battle-greenpeace-on-gmo-foods
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2016, 10:41:13 PM »
Whether AI has a largely positive impact on humanity (or not) significantly depends on the software "scaffolding" that is provided machine learning (& deep learning).  If this software "scaffolding" is set-up like a dynamic agora framework (see Reply #40) that is public (open-source) with both public and private input (see cartoon), then our chances of a positive out-come increase (see link to friendly artificial intelligence, FAI.  In this regard an unfriendly AI could be compared to a wild/undisciplined mind and FAI could be compared to a cultured/disciplined mind):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_artificial_intelligence

Extract: "A friendly artificial intelligence (also friendly AI or FAI) is a hypothetical artificial general intelligence (AGI) that would have a positive rather than negative effect on humanity. It is a part of the ethics of artificial intelligence and is closely related to machine ethics. While machine ethics is concerned with how an artificially intelligent agent should behave, friendly artificial intelligence research is focused on how to practically bring about this behaviour and ensuring it is adequately constrained."

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agora
Extract: "The Agora (/ˈæɡərə/; Ancient Greek: Ἀγορά Agorá) was a central spot in ancient Greek city-states. The literal meaning of the word is "gathering place" or "assembly"."

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2016, 05:36:16 PM »
The linked article makes it clear that just acknowledging that climate change is real is not sufficient; people must also agree on what to do about it (which is yet another example of systemic isolation):

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/science/climate-change-movement.html?_r=0

Extract: "But the movement that started with a straightforward mission — to get more people to appreciate the dangers of climate change as a precursor to action — is feeling growing pains. What may seem like a unified front has pronounced schisms, with conflicting opinions on many issues, including nuclear power and natural gas, that are complicating what it means to be an environmentalist in this day and age.

The factional boundaries are not hard and fast, with groups shifting their positions as the science and waves of activism evolve. The environmental movement has always been a congregation of many voices, and some disagreement should be expected on such complex and intractable problems as saving the planet. Still, the tensions remain strong."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sedziobs

  • ASIF Lurker
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2016, 08:14:44 PM »
An interesting article describing the effects of planned obsolescence, whereby products are designed to fail to encourage further consumption, using light bulbs as an example.

http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-l-e-d-quandary-why-theres-no-such-thing-as-built-to-last

Politically speaking, the reason is obvious: even advocates such as Cooper describe the transformation of a consumer economy fuelled by obsolescence as a “radical, systemic change” that is likely, at least in the short term, to slow economic growth. “This may be unacceptable to governments, which use economic growth as their primary performance indicator,” Cooper notes, rather dryly, in “Longer Lasting Products.”

The first international academic conference on product durability took place last year, in Nottingham, England; also in 2015, a consortium of environmental organizations, ranging from the California-based repair wiki iFixit to European government agencies, issued a joint call for longer-lasting goods. Sustainability thinkers increasingly recognize that the efforts of industrialized nations to “decouple” economic growth from its environmental impacts have not succeeded. Despite a conspicuous boom in energy-efficient, recyclable, biodegradable, and nontoxic products on the market, resource exploitation continues to intensify—the footprint of annual global consumption now exceeds the replacement rate of the planet’s resources by one and a half times. (It would be four times if everyone on Earth consumed like the average American.) Perpetual, consumer-driven growth has proven staggeringly difficult to disentangle from impacts like pollution, resource depletion, energy consumption, and waste. Even purchasing eco-friendly products quickly becomes a zero-sum green game if we constantly buy more of them.

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2016, 09:05:10 PM »
As a follow-on to sezdziobs' post, the linked article indicates that the World Economic Forum is considering movement towards a circular economy:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-lacy-/the-circular-economy-is-a_b_9012234.html

Extract: "Little more than a month after many of us were at the Paris climate summit, there are several familiar faces in Davos. The Paris accord set a firm path that will allow commitments to become reality, even with its shortcomings. For business leaders that means investment decisions will become easier to make. And they know that meeting in Davos presents the best chance to get into specifics.
As Dominic Waughray wrote on these pages recently, the World Economic Forum has played a strong part in bringing together businesses, investors and policy makers, including forming an alliance of CEO Climate Leaders. Last night it put the circular economy at the forefront of delegates' minds by hosting the Circulars, the awards that recognize individuals and organizations that have contributed significantly to new business models and mindsets that decouple growth from the consumption of scarce natural resources.
In their second year, the Circulars seek to highlight how achieving the ambitious aims agreed in Paris does not require a trade off with growth. That's because circular business models drive growth. And they unlock the revenues we are otherwise throwing away by pursuing the traditional 'take, make, waste' model of doing business.
For forty years until the turn of the millennium, business got used to commodity prices decreasing as growth surged. But this pattern then reversed dramatically, as the rise of urbanization intensified shortages of many resources while putting others such as water and soil under great stress. In recent years, prices have skyrocketed and crashed dramatically. Prices for metals like copper, iron, tin and nickel, have nearly doubled between 2000 and 2015. The real price of oil in August 2015 was still 55 per cent higher than in August 2000.
We face a shortfall of 8 billion tons in constrained resources by 2030. That translates to $4.5 trillion of lost growth that year, or as much as the U.S. consumes annually today.



The circular economy is about more than recycling and managing landfill. We need to look at all four dimensions of waste as an opportunity. Find value in wasted resources that could become renewable, such as biofuel. Exploit the wasted capacity in property or assets that could find a market, such as the 60 percent of Europe's truck capacity that remains empty most of the time. Reduce the wasted lifecycles that currently see products discarded rather than refurbished, often because they are not built to last. Finally, secure the wasted embedded values by finding uses for otherwise rejected materials."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2016, 04:42:23 PM »
The linked editorial (regarding the Kopp et al 2016 reference at the end of the post) notes that: "If policy makers are to make real progress, we must start meaning the same thing when we use the same words to describe climate change".  While the editorial (& the Kopp et al 2016 reference) are admirable in their efforts to reduce systemic isolation between climate change science & climate change policy; nevertheless, by surveying old science they both actually add to the confuse & systemic isolation between reality & climate action.  For instance DeConto (2016) notes that if/when GMST departure from pre-industrial reaches 2.7C (which is almost unavoidable between 2040-2050) then large parts of the WAIS could collapse within decades; and Hansen et al (2016) demonstrate that if this were to occur that the ocean's thermohaline circulation pattern would be significantly impacted.  Yet by pointing to pre-2016 research both Ellison (the editor of Earth's Future) and Kopp et al indicate that they support the mistaken concept that a tipping point for marine ice sheet collapse (& the associated impact on ocean circulation patterns) will likely take many centuries to unfold.  If/when policy makers follow such Ellison/Kopp et al guidance, more time & money will be wasted on ineffective climate change action; all due to systemic isolation:

Michael Ellison (28 July 2016) "Perspectives on Climate Tipping Points", EoS

https://eos.org/editors-vox/perspectives-climate-tipping-points

Extract: "First, the ‘tipping point’ terminology is potentially confusing: its use in the climate science literature is clearly inspired by Malcolm Gladwell’s popularization, yet the use of the term in climate science doesn’t totally align with its popularized use. For example, Malcolm Gladwell characterized tipping points as ‘abrupt,’ but if we’re talking about ‘tipping points’ in an ice sheet, the consequences of crossing a critical threshold may take many centuries to play out. In our personal experience talking about these issues with the general public, we found that the ‘tipping point’ terminology made the consequences of crossing ‘climatic tipping points’ appear more imminent or abrupt than they might actually be. Second, for all our concerns about ‘tipping points’ in the climate system, we perhaps should be equally concerned about how ‘non-tipping’ parts of the climate system might cause social tipping points—for example, involving civil conflict or migration—or shocks to the economy.

For society at large, it’s clear that there are a lot of potential surprises out there associated with climate change—‘unknown unknowns’ as Donald Rumsfeld might have called them. Many of these may involve rapid, non-linear changes in either the physical climate or human systems. So we need to get a better handle on these changes and their associated risks for humans. Yet it’s hard to do, and much of the research on climate damages is currently focused on easier-to-characterize changes, such as those involving the crop yield or mortality effects of changes in mean temperature and precipitation. Those are important, but they’re not the full picture, and we can’t neglect these harder questions."


Robert E. Kopp, Rachael Shwom, Gernot Wagner, Jiacan Yuan. Tipping elements and climate-economic shocks: Pathways toward integrated assessment. Earth's Future, 2016; DOI: 10.1002/2016EF000362


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016EF000362/full

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016EF000362/abstract?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+unavailable+on+Saturday+30th+July+2016+from+08:00-11:00+BST+/+03:00-06:00+EST+/+15:00-18:00+SGT+for+essential+maintenance.Apologies+for+the+inconvenience.

Abstract: "The literature on the costs of climate change often draws a link between climatic ‘tipping points’ and large economic shocks, frequently called ‘catastrophes’. The phrase ‘tipping points’ in this context can be misleading. In popular and social scientific discourse, ‘tipping points’ involve abrupt state changes. For some climatic ‘tipping points,’ the commitment to a state change may occur abruptly, but the change itself may be rate-limited and take centuries or longer to realize. Additionally, the connection between climatic ‘tipping points’ and economic losses is tenuous, though emerging empirical and process-model-based tools provide pathways for investigating it. We propose terminology to clarify the distinction between ‘tipping points’ in the popular sense, the critical thresholds exhibited by climatic and social ‘tipping elements,’ and ‘economic shocks’. The last may be associated with tipping elements, gradual climate change, or non-climatic triggers. We illustrate our proposed distinctions by surveying the literature on climatic tipping elements, climatically sensitive social tipping elements, and climate-economic shocks, and we propose a research agenda to advance the integrated assessment of all three."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2016, 05:38:17 AM »
The first attached image (from The Matrix Reloaded), illustrates that systemic isolation not only inhibits synergy between people, & across disciplines, it also temporally separates us from understanding our own decisions.  For instance when the IPCC/CMIP5 used human judgment (based on multiple lines of prior evidence) to err on the side of least drama (ESLD) by selecting a most likely value of ECS of about 3C; we automatically increased our risk of climate consequences by facilitating the BAU behavior that we have mutually exhibited since we (as a society) made that ESLD decision.  Now that multiple lines of new evidence (see the curve with time dependence in the second attached image from Kyle Armour 2016) indicate that ECS is most likely closer to 4.6C than to 3C; we all need to learn to recalibrate our societal understanding of our true risk before we add insult to injury by further delaying climate action; which would/will increase our climate risk still further (& probably at an accelerating non-linear rate).

Kyle C. Armour  (27 June 2016), "Projection and prediction: Climate sensitivity on the rise", Nature Climate Change, doi:10.1038/nclimate3079

http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate3079.html

Summary: "Recent observations of Earth's energy budget indicate low climate sensitivity. Research now shows that these estimates should be revised upward, resolving an apparent mismatch with climate models and implying a warmer future."

Edit: the pdf of the reference can be found at the following link:


http://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3079.epdf?author_access_token=LNQKgwEONy5YVJSvlubB29RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PPTNF_sOIeFx9myJ_U10XLsj8_p1lqjx0RRDTJbTTc78eupvudlmNtEiNXnWHNhr4crt8ZuOmLA66TNpMu_PUg

« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 07:37:06 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2016, 09:44:31 PM »
As the whole Matrix sequence endeavors to convey an understanding of a series of transitions from one systemically isolated gestalt to another (higher) level of gestalt; from Neo following the white rabbit, to being de-bugged, to taking the red pill, to being flushed from his artificial "womb", to encountering the Matrix, to encountering the Oracle; all of which I have already touched upon (more or less), as they more or less relate to our own experiences.  However, I have noticed that many people have a poor appreciation of Neo's transitions to encounter the Architect of the Matrix and then to the Deus Ex Machina in the Machine City.  In this regard I attach:

A) The first image of the meme "Denial is the most predictable of all human responses"; as it illustrates that human ego can aggrandize itself by belittling any other position/gestalt; including the ego's of IPCC scientists (and their ilk) who belittle climate change risks that will become apparent in a few short decades, due to continuing anthropogenic forcing.
B) The second image that illustrates the periodic nature of chaotic systems (such as life/death, etc.); where the Architect is willing to accept systemic losses (such as the loss of five to nine billion people worldwide following a socio-economic collapse after 2050); provided that there is a seed of renewal for the Architect to sustain itself on after such periodic collapses.
C) The third image illustrates that all egotistical gestalts have a beginning and an end; so even if the 4th Industrial Revolution turns some individuals into god-like Agent Smiths, still freewill will remain to challenge any post-collapse high-tech driven societies to develop compassionate moral values.
D) The fourth image shows Neo (as a model of freewill) negotiating with the Deus Ex Machina in the Machine City, for a compromise allowing the AI machines and humans from their refuge in Zion to co-exist in the post-collapse world, representing a more sustainable gestalt that should last for many centuries.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 10990
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2016, 11:43:13 AM »
Here is some Matrix images on the illusions caused by systemic isolation:
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

abbottisgone

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 297
  • "...I'm a rock'n'roll star,...... YES I ARE!!!!!!"
    • View Profile
Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2016, 12:18:50 AM »
Some of this looks like great stuff and I did dig the drums posted by someone earlier... but the best thing in the world is not having a mobile phone.

I threw that thing away about ten years ago and it's pretty awesome.

 ;)
..
But I left school and grew my hair
They didn't understand
They wanted me to be respected as
A doctor or a lawyer man
But I had other plans..........