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Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")  (Read 139676 times)

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1850 on: March 21, 2017, 02:04:25 AM »
I have no words to describe this . . .

Try the word: "Extortion".
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1851 on: March 21, 2017, 02:05:34 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “Could FBI investigation into Russia links ensnare Trump?”.  The investigation may prove that where there is smoke there is fire.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39331555

Extract: “On Saturday, Lawfare blog editor Benjamin Wittes wrote that the worst-case scenario for the Trump White House was if Mr Comey appeared before the congressional committee and was tight-lipped.

A loquacious Comey, he said, was evidence of an investigation that was near its end with little evidence of substantive wrongdoing in the higher levels of the Trump brain trust.

But what would happen, Wittes wondered, if Mr Comey's FBI investigation is turning up real evidence?

"In this situation, I would expect him to be minimally verbal. He may have to answer yes or no questions in certain instances, including about the truth of the wiretapping allegations, but he will refuse to answer a lot of questions. He will make as little news as humanly possible. He will be exceptionally spare with his opinions."

"I'm trying to be studiously vague to protect the integrity of the investigation," Mr Comey said at one point on Monday.

Wittes has since parsed the director's words and concluded that it was a bad day for Mr Trump.

"Really bad."

Mr Comey's relative silence could be deadly.”

Edit, see also:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/20/politics/adam-schiff-jake-tapper-comey-hearings-the-lead-cnntv/index.html
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 02:14:00 AM by AbruptSLR »
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Archimid

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1852 on: March 21, 2017, 02:22:56 AM »
I think the problem is that the Republicans have also taken lots of money for a long time from entities allied with Putin's interest. These are the same interests performing fraud by denying climate change. Many of the Republicans will be very resilient to alienate those people. Most will actually favor Putin because of the power Putin and Trump are offering. Some Democrats too.

Right now Putin has subverted the American corporate Democracy to his favor. Putin's plan reverts decades of progress, economic growth and civil liberties, but even a lesser US is a great prize for Trump and his greedy accomplices.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1853 on: March 21, 2017, 05:06:34 AM »
DrTskoul


I think we're drifting far from the thread's topic.


Communication between disparate IQs has long been noted as problematical. Some claim that no real communication takes place if 5 statistical deviations separate the participants, also that marriages almost never last if 2 deviations separate the couple, primarily because of their inability to share thoughts, (communicate).


Before "The Bell Curve" poisoned the well there were many interesting discussions related to psychometrics. Now everything devolves into racist ramblings with whites assuming that they're all brighter than blacks, and blacks refusing to be drawn into the fray. It's a shame because I've known many blacks in Mensa, and many, many, racist whites that could never hope to qualify.


We may be miscommunicating WRT common sense. I'm referring to the ability to intuit the correct answer, even without training in a specific area. I think you may be defining common sense as having answers to common problems readily available.


Testing attempts to eliminate learned responses while measuring the subject's ability to find connections when many of the intermittent steps are hidden. Common sense, using my definition, is the ability of say an untrained person to repair an ailing auto, diagnose poorly written code, or solve an enigma that baffles others. If one is already an experienced mechanic, programmer, or sleuth, these particular tests would mean little.


I don't have any links since my writings on this subject are decades old. I really do feel that we've drifted so far that we either need to start a new thread, or simply drop the subject.


Terry

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1854 on: March 21, 2017, 11:36:07 AM »
I appreciate the reply Terry! Definitely OT :) but interesting nevertheless

EDIT: the stupid well never dries. "GOP Congessman: Chesapeake Bay Pollution Is God’s Fault", if anyone needed a reason why the Trumpster conned the little guy....
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 11:45:37 AM by DrTskoul »
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DrTskoul

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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1856 on: March 21, 2017, 11:58:04 AM »
So....what did we learn yesterday from Director Comey's questioning....AND...any "give and take" afterwards:

1)  After the hearing.....Sean Spicer wanted to distance General Flynn and Paul Manafort from the Trump campaign.  Remember when I said a good magician wants to distract you AWAY from where the real action is?  Well....that is what Spicey is trying to do (and not doing it very well I might add).  Spicer saying that Paul Manafort didn't have much to do with the campaign.....is like saying Nick Saban doesn't have much to do with the Alabama football team.  It is so patently false....that it diminishes what little respect Sean Spicer had.

In poker this would be called "a tell".  I think most people already thought that Manafort and Flynn were "go betweens" with the Russians/Ukranians anyway.  NOW WE KNOW IT.

2)  Any doubt that there will now be a commission...OR....a special prosecutor looking into TrumpGate is now gone in my mind.  It is now just a matter of WHEN....not IF.

3)  I think all of you can see how far the press has "moved" over the last couple of months.
  As this has happened.....Trump is also being seen through a "different lens."  He's now being seen as someone EVEN MORE UNTRUTHFUL that we thought.....and he was already at a low level.  I expect the press to continue to move even further towards questioning EVERYTHING Trump now does or says.  That questioning will eventually turn into open mocking and more aggressive questioning.

4)  FOX News gave one of its commentatorsliars....Judge Napalitano....a leave of absence....without commenting why.  FOX knew this would blow up in their face....so instead of doing the right thing and FIRING HIM.....they will pull him off the air for a few months.

FOX News doesn't care....and has NEVER CARED....about journalism.  They are a lie machine.  Look at Bill O'Reilly:  (1)  he lied about his coverage of the Kennedy assassination:  http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/10/media/bill-oreilly-jfk/ (2)  O'Reilly has been involved in TWO sexual harassment cases at work that had to be settled (3) FOX News has lied about global warming for 25 years.....with Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, and many other mouthpieces of FOX News spewing out their daily lies.

Trump is THE FOX PRESIDENT....and this is what a lying station will deliver:  A lying president who will now be impeached over the next 18 months or so....



FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1857 on: March 21, 2017, 12:17:53 PM »
One other thing we learned a little more about (indirectly).  The investigation on the FBI front will lead to the little weasel from Utah:  Jason Chaffetz and his buddy Rudy Guiliani.  Did Jason also know about the investigation into Trump during the campaign (illegally)? 

THAT will become a side show to the main performance going on.....but definitely related to the main performance.  The REASON the FBI came out and discussed the Clinton case during the campaignWAS BECAUSE OF JASON CHAFFETZ AND RUDY GUILIANI. 

The whole show will be interesting over the next 18 months...or however long this plays out.

1)  How many people are involved in the whole Russian involvement....and the FBI involvement?

2)  Just HOW CRAZY will Trump become over the coming months?

3)  How will Trump's folks try to distract American's from the Russian/FBI involvement?

4)  How soon will people start jumping ship?

5)  What will be the impact on elections in 2018?  Does anyone REALLY want to be "attached" to someone who may be impeached....and who lies daily?

6)  And when will General Flynn flip to save his ass?  Donnie HAS to be worried about this one..
Inquiring minds want to know...... 
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1858 on: March 22, 2017, 12:16:00 PM »
Let's see what THIS GUY has to say about a president under FBI investigation...... ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sean-hannity-fbi-probes_us_58d1fe9ae4b0b22b0d18138c?



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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1859 on: March 22, 2017, 01:28:08 PM »
You KNOW you're having a bad week when a biased, lying, unethical rag like the Wall Street Journal is questioning your ETHICS:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-presidents-credibility-1490138920?emailToken=JRryd/98ZHqRhtQ9bsw1kUUyY7IJB%2BKPWkiSJ2rHNknGtXjUvfPknvlk34Ls8TL1HQ%3D%3D

Too bad for the WSJ.  They USED TO BE a pretty good journal before Rupert Murdoch bought them.  I haven't spend money on them since.....
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1860 on: March 22, 2017, 05:29:58 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Former Trump Campaign Head Manafort Was Paid Millions By A Putin Ally, AP Says".  The plot thickens.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/22/521088772/former-trump-campaign-head-manafort-was-paid-millions-by-a-putin-ally-ap-says

Extract: "A Russian billionaire paid former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort millions of dollars to boost the interests of Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Associated Press reports. The new allegations arise months after Manafort resigned from the Trump campaign amid concerns over his work for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine.

"According to documents that we've reviewed, Paul Manafort secretly worked for a Russian oligarch who wanted him to promote Russian interests," the AP's Chad Day tells NPR's Rachel Martin. "And in particular, he wrote a memo that outlined this kind of vast plan for him to promote Russian interests in the former Soviet republics — and also to specifically benefit the Putin government."

Many of the records that snarled Manafort in recent months emerged from Ukraine's new anti-corruption bureau. In this case, Day says his reporting "is not just based on anonymous sources ... the bedrock of this story is based on documents that we've authenticated, and documents that have been corroborated through sources.""
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1861 on: March 22, 2017, 06:02:13 PM »
I make fun of Texas Congressmen and Senators.....and there is a reason:  Most of them are corrupt...and many of them are as dumb as a stump.  Some of them...are both.

Here is one more example of just how dumb they are.  Unfortunately....this Congressman Conaway is also a CPA....making all CPA's around the country cringe in horror (at 7:47 in the linked clip below).

This 10 video of Seth Meyers shows.....with comedy.....just how bad and how biased the Republicans on the committee are.   And it shows why I firmly believe this issue will eventually be taken up either by an independent commissions AND/OR a special prosecutor at some point in the coming months.

https://www.truthexaminer.com/2017/03/seth-meyers-thinks-donald-trump-is-insane-for-tweeting-through-the-comey-hearing-you-must-watch-this/
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1862 on: March 22, 2017, 09:17:36 PM »
Always follow the money....

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/russia-devin-nunes-donald-trump/2019/

$50,000 might not seem like a lot of money to many....but when it is your WHOLE NET WORTH, like Nunes....it is a lot of money.

FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1863 on: March 23, 2017, 01:11:09 AM »
THE RECLUSIVE HEDGE-FUND TYCOON BEHIND THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY
How Robert Mercer exploited America’s populist insurgency.


Just wow!

Patterson also recalled Mercer arguing that, during the Gulf War, the U.S. should simply have taken Iraq’s oil, “since it was there.” Trump, too, has said that the U.S. should have “kept the oil.” Expropriating another country’s natural resources is a violation of international law. Another onetime senior employee at Renaissance recalls hearing Mercer downplay the dangers posed by nuclear war. Mercer, speaking of the atomic bombs that the U.S. dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, argued that, outside of the immediate blast zones, the radiation actually made Japanese citizens healthier. The National Academy of Sciences has found no evidence to support this notion. Nevertheless, according to the onetime employee, Mercer, who is a proponent of nuclear power, “was very excited about the idea, and felt that it meant nuclear accidents weren’t such a big deal.”


“Most people at Renaissance didn’t challenge him” about politics, Patterson said. But Patterson clashed with him over climate change; Mercer said that concerns about it were overblown. After Patterson shared with him a scientific paper on the subject, Mercer and his brother, Randall, who also worked at the hedge fund, sent him a paper by a scientist named Arthur Robinson, who is a biochemist, not a climate expert. “It looked like a scientific paper, but it was completely loaded with selective and biased information,” Patterson recalled. The paper argued that, if climate change were real, future generations would “enjoy an Earth with far more plant and animal life.” Robinson owns a sheep ranch in Cave Junction, Oregon, and on the property he runs a laboratory that he calls the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine. Mercer helps subsidize Robinson’s various projects, which include an effort to forestall aging.

Patterson sent Mercer a note calling Robinson’s arguments “completely false.” He never heard back. “I think if you studied Bob’s views of what the ideal state would look like, you’d find that, basically, he wants a system where the state just gets out of the way,” Patterson said. “Climate change poses a problem for that world view, because markets can’t solve it on their own.”

Magerman told the Wall Street Journal that Mercer’s political opinions “show contempt for the social safety net that he doesn’t need, but many Americans do.” He also said that Mercer wants the U.S. government to be “shrunk down to the size of a pinhead.”


Mercer financed Bannon and Trump...

David Magerman, in his essay for the Inquirer, notes that Mercer “has surrounded our President with his people, and his people have an outsized influence over the running of our country, simply because Robert Mercer paid for their seats.” He writes, “Everyone has a right to express their views.” But, he adds, “when the government becomes more like a corporation, with the richest 0.001% buying shares and demanding board seats, then we cease to be a representative democracy.” Instead, he warns, “we become an oligarchy.”
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 01:26:31 AM by DrTskoul »
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1864 on: March 23, 2017, 02:17:42 AM »
Every week for the next year or more....will bring more and more shoes dropping like flies.

The shoe that dropped today.....was the Paul Manafort news:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/22/521088772/former-trump-campaign-head-manafort-was-paid-millions-by-a-putin-ally-ap-says

To be sure....this isn't the "tip" of the iceberg.  We have moved into the "main body" of the ice berg.  Read the article.  The lines to Trump and his campaign CONTINUE TO DEEPEN....and are now being exposed.

We are also approaching the time that an Independent Commission will HAVE to handle this.  The Republican who heads the House Intelligence Committee......went running to Donnie boy today, rather than delivering any news to his committee.  So...he will NOT be able to handle a bipartisan committee.  There is too much at stake.....and it will become apparent in coming days that "this"....TrumpGate....is WAY TOO BIG....for anything other than an independent committee.

Donnie is in deep....and as I said several weeks ago....this will make Watergate look like child's play.

FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1865 on: March 23, 2017, 02:32:24 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “Judge orders Exxon to hand over documents related to climate change”.  Tillerson may have some explaining to do.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/22/news/companies/exxon-mobil-climate-change-emails-schneiderman/index.html
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1866 on: March 23, 2017, 03:01:50 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “US Officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians”; and it elaborates on the FBI investigation that Comey confirmed on Monday is being conducted.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/politics/us-officials-info-suggests-trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians/index.html

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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1867 on: March 23, 2017, 12:08:24 PM »
The only two significant questions for me now....

Trump Administration
Pence Administration
Tillerson Administration OR
Ryan Administration

AND....

How WIDE will "the net" be cast as to who was involved in EITHER the "corroboration with the Russians" and FBI involvment....OR...."the cover-up of the corroboration"?

I'm afraid US Representative Nunes just threw his name into that pot.....along with the following:

1)  Tillerson:  And Tillerson has TWO ISSUES to contend with now...(a) was he involved in any way.....AND..... (b) he has significant issues related to what he knew and when he knew it about climate change while at Exxon....and the NY Attorney General is like "white on rice" on that issue

2)  Chaffetz:  He already has issues related to this whole ordeal as to how/why he was pushing the FBI to come out 11 days before the election.  What did he know and why did he do the things he did?

3)  Guiliani:  Ditto above...he was in bed with Jason Chaffetz

4)  Trump idiot son 1:  What did Donald Jr know and when....and did he meet with Russians?
5)  Trump idiot son 2:  Ditto above for Eric (sorry Eric, you will always be son 2..even in prison ;))
6)  Ivanka:  Was she involved in any way
7)  Spicey:  (He is toast.....well burnt toast)
8)  Kellyanne Conway:  Ditto Spicey
9)  General Flynn:  Toast.....certainly burnt on one side...and he will likely flip in order to escape being burnt on BOTH SIDES.  If this was Russia....he would likely be dead by now.
10)  Manafort:  Toast....both sides....smoke coming from the toaster..
11)  Comey:  Why did he come out with Clinton announcement 11 days before the election?  Is he in any way going to be complicit in THAT announcement?
12)  Nunnez:  What did he know....when did he know it?
13)  Jeff Sessions AG:  Knowing Jeff Sessions has been like in his political life....he is toast
14)  Wilbur Ross:  Commerce Secretary....and ties to banking in Cyprus...likely toast 
15)  Corey Luindowski:  Possible......he was rabid supporter....and stupid (oops...I guess I repeated myself didn't I? ;))
16)  Roger Ailes:  Toast
17)  Carter Page:  Toast

18)  Others....just how wide is this thing going to go?  Looks like there was a LOT of money involved....so the net could become even wider than the above.

19)  New white house dog:
  I will give the new white house dog a pass...I will step out on a limb and say he is innocent (I'm a dog lover).

I'm sure I have missed some.....but now you get the idea.  The body count will be high....

"Hello morgue.....I'd like to place an order for more body bags please"....... ::)



« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 12:16:30 PM by Buddy »
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Red

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1868 on: March 23, 2017, 12:14:01 PM »
I find it umm interesting that a country that impeached a president for lying about getting a BJ allows this to continue completely unchecked.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/trumps-credibility-crisis-arrives/520347/

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1869 on: March 23, 2017, 12:28:07 PM »
Honestly I don't follow the US political scene very closely. However it has been prominently on display almost everywhere one looks. I'm constantly scratching my head and thinking WTF.

“Social Justice Warrior” is a pejorative some use for people whose progressive advocacy on race, gender, or other identity issues strays into excessive attacks on perceived enemies. At that Kentucky rally, Trump behaved like a Social Injustice Warrior. And those who cheered him demonstrated that they have no principled opposition to political correctness––just a desire that their sensitivities dictate who gets punished. They just happen to be more sensitive to perceived insults to the U.S. flag than perceived insults to African Americans or Hispanics or gay people or women.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/trump-brags-that-he-cost-a-man-his-livelihood/520233/

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1870 on: March 23, 2017, 12:30:04 PM »
As far as I understand Trump's Russian connection there is literally no evidence of anything apart from anonymous sources and innuendo from various US intelligence agencies who seem to be attacking their recently democratically elected president, nominally the Commander in Chief, which is technically a treason.

This neo-McCarthyist meme really kicked off with the Wikileaks revelations concerning the utter corruption of the DNC, the Clinton campaign, Clinton herself as SoS and the Clinton Foundation. It allowed the corporate media to lead with 'those damn dirty Russkies' instead of having to focus on the evidence concerning the undermining of democratic process in the primaries against Sanders, in the initial promotion of far right wing Republican candidates including Trump against the Jeb Bush candidacy in collusion with elements of the corporate media to push Clinton's candidacy, multi-million dollar political donations towards Clinton's presidential campaign including from Saudis (also acknowledged as sponsors of terrorism) and Russians, spearheading the Libyan regime change catastrophe while SoS in order to prove her presidential credentials for the now 16 year old permanent global war on terror, supporting the Al-qaeda ratline from Benghazi into Syria to set that dreadful conflagration alight (you can thank Seymor Hersh for that 'fake news') and ... etc.

Instead of news about an utterly corrupt and warmongering Clinton candidacy all we got from the US corporate media was "The Russians are coming!!" which was then turned on its head to paint Trump as an utterly corrupt but apparently non-warmongering Russophile. This Russophobic neo-McCarthyist meme against Trump is blatantly ludicrous and all it does is get in the way of discussing the real problem with his new administration which promises a hyper-libertarian dismantling of any and all regulatory corporate controls across the board including those concerning the unfettered extraction and combustion of fossil fuels.

On the other hand his presidency has also threatened to rein in the US war industry and its neoconservative quest for global full spectrum dominance that has destroyed the global economy, slaughtered at least 2 million people across the Middle East, and delayed any real engagement with the  threat of runaway anthropogenic climate change, which is I guess why they're trying to depose him.

I very much enjoy these forums and the work many of you on this thread contribute to understanding and accepting the reality of climate change, but this Russophobia is classic misdirection gone mad.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1871 on: March 23, 2017, 12:59:41 PM »
Instead of news about an utterly corrupt and warmongering Clinton candidacy all we got from the US corporate media was "The Russians are coming!!" which was then turned on its head to paint Trump as an utterly corrupt but apparently non-warmongering Russophile. This Russophobic neo-McCarthyist meme against Trump is blatantly ludicrous and all it does is get in the way of discussing the real problem with his new administration which promises a hyper-libertarian dismantling of any and all regulatory corporate controls across the board including those concerning the unfettered extraction and combustion of fossil fuels.

You must not be in the US.  Because I saw a LOT of "lock her up".  I saw continual chants for "Wikileaks"......"we LOVE wikileaks".  So....I can't speak to any European news on the election....but the coverage BEFORE the election had TONS AND TONS OF "Anti Clinton" news.

On the other hand his presidency has also threatened to rein in the US war industry and its neoconservative quest for global full spectrum dominance that has destroyed the global economy, slaughtered at least 2 million people across the Middle East, and delayed any real engagement with the  threat of runaway anthropogenic climate change, which is I guess why they're trying to depose him.

So....in order to "reign in the US war industry".....your boy Donnie has a 10% INCREASE IN DEFENSE SPENDING.  MY GUESS IS THAT IS NOT FOR MORE LEGGO's.  THAT...is a funny way to "reign in the war machine."

Or....should I mention that "peace loving Donnie" was the first to go in with "troops on the ground" into Yeman recently....with an ILL ADVISED FOREY that cost the life of a Marine soldier.

Or....should I mention that Donnie boy has given more "free reign" to CIA to go AHEAD with drone strikes WITHOUT his approval?  That must be because Donnie is such a peace loving guy.

You are either delusional.....or you're watching FOX News.  I don't know which....and it likely doesn't matter which of those is true.

I very much enjoy these forums and the work many of you on this thread contribute to understanding and accepting the reality of climate change, but this Russophobia is classic misdirection gone mad.

If you have one...two...or three instances of "possible Russian" contact....then one could EASILY dismiss the possibility of collusion.  When you have continued corrabarated contacts between Trump's campaign....AND....you find out those in the campaign have lied about them (and in fact Flynn has already been fired over his contacts)..... then any reasonable person is going to think, "where there is THAT many instances....it is VERY LIKELY ."

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« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 01:24:11 PM by Buddy »
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1872 on: March 23, 2017, 01:08:06 PM »
As far as I understand Trump's Russian connection there is literally no evidence of anything apart from anonymous sources and innuendo from various US intelligence agencies who seem to be attacking their recently democratically elected president, nominally the Commander in Chief, which is technically a treason.

This neo-McCarthyist meme really kicked off with the Wikileaks revelations concerning the utter corruption of the DNC, the Clinton campaign, Clinton herself as SoS and the Clinton Foundation. It allowed the corporate media to lead with 'those damn dirty Russkies' instead of having to focus on the evidence concerning the undermining of democratic process in the primaries against Sanders, in the initial promotion of far right wing Republican candidates including Trump against the Jeb Bush candidacy in collusion with elements of the corporate media to push Clinton's candidacy, multi-million dollar political donations towards Clinton's presidential campaign including from Saudis (also acknowledged as sponsors of terrorism) and Russians, spearheading the Libyan regime change catastrophe while SoS in order to prove her presidential credentials for the now 16 year old permanent global war on terror, supporting the Al-qaeda ratline from Benghazi into Syria to set that dreadful conflagration alight (you can thank Seymor Hersh for that 'fake news') and ... etc.

Instead of news about an utterly corrupt and warmongering Clinton candidacy all we got from the US corporate media was "The Russians are coming!!" which was then turned on its head to paint Trump as an utterly corrupt but apparently non-warmongering Russophile. This Russophobic neo-McCarthyist meme against Trump is blatantly ludicrous and all it does is get in the way of discussing the real problem with his new administration which promises a hyper-libertarian dismantling of any and all regulatory corporate controls across the board including those concerning the unfettered extraction and combustion of fossil fuels.

On the other hand his presidency has also threatened to rein in the US war industry and its neoconservative quest for global full spectrum dominance that has destroyed the global economy, slaughtered at least 2 million people across the Middle East, and delayed any real engagement with the  threat of runaway anthropogenic climate change, which is I guess why they're trying to depose him.

I very much enjoy these forums and the work many of you on this thread contribute to understanding and accepting the reality of climate change, but this Russophobia is classic misdirection gone mad.

1.  The only people likely to have much confirmed evidence of undue influence by Russia are the intelligence services.  If they suspect corruption by the president, and willful turning of a blind eye  by the Republican-led Intelligence Committees, then their only option is the press, via anonymous sourcing.  The findings are classified, so the information conveyed has to remain anonymous.

2.  In the case of Manafort and Flynn, there are now corroborated sources of information about payments and corruption.  Together with #1, there's very much a smoking gun.

3.  "This Russophobic neo-McCarthyist meme against Trump is blatantly ludicrous and all it does is get in the way of discussing the real problem with his new administration which promises a hyper-libertarian dismantling of any and all regulatory corporate controls across the board including those concerning the unfettered extraction and combustion of fossil fuels. "

No, with right-wingers in control of the White House, both houses of Congress, and soon the Supreme Court, no amount of discussing or protesting their right-wing agenda is going to prevent implementation of that agenda.

However, persistent demands for an independent commission/prosecutor will clog up the works, make the right-wingers fear for their ability to be re-elected, and is the most effective way to slow , delay, and de-fang that dangerous agenda.  It also happens to be the right thing to do.

4.  "On the other hand his presidency has also threatened to rein in the US war industry and its neoconservative quest for global full spectrum dominance. . ."

No, completely the opposite.  His budget is focused on building war-fighting capacity, dismissing diplomatic solutions, and gutting supports for health, education, and the poor.  We are far closer to having a war with N.Korea, Iran, and conceivably even China than we were before.  There was never a risk of a direct military conflict with Russia before, so Trump's affection for Putin gains the world nothing.

Zeug Gezeugt

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1873 on: March 23, 2017, 01:22:53 PM »
You are either delusional.....or you're watching FOX News.  I don't know which....and it likely doesn't matter which of those is true.

If you have one...two...or three instances of "possible Russian" contact....then one could EASILY dismiss the possibility of collusion.

Yes perhaps, either that or your naive Russophobia is truly delusional and fed by the US propaganda industry that you subscribe to without question. And no I'm not a US citizen but I do know the history of McCarthyism in the US, and this current episode would seem to be a blatant case of such fear mongering madness.

As I said, the danger of Trump's presidency is in his libertarian agenda that threatens to completely unshackle the US and thus global corporate drive for profits across the board. Instead of the largely symbolic but still important attempts to collectively address climate change this last quarter of a century he'll unleash the hydrocarbon dragon, next stop commercially viable Arctic drilling by 2030!

So while you're arguing about an illusory 'Russian threat', which just antagonizes the relationship with a fellow thermonuclear power, Trump and his ilk are preparing to send us on our reactionary way towards civilizational collapse and possibly species extinction sometime towards the end of this century or into the next.

Good for you! Go the Blues!!

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1874 on: March 23, 2017, 01:38:17 PM »
As I said, the danger of Trump's presidency is in his libertarian agenda that threatens to completely unshackle the US and thus global corporate drive for profits across the board. Instead of the largely symbolic but still important attempts to collectively address climate change this last quarter of a century he'll unleash the hydrocarbon dragon, next stop commercially viable Arctic drilling by 2030!

A)  First....thanks for "skipping over" the point about Trump INCRESASING THE MILITARY BUDGET.  I'm sure that was just an "oversight" on your part....as well as the fact he is already being MORE aggressive by allowing the CIA free reign over the use of drones....and his incursion into Yemen already.  Again...I'm sure those were innocent oversights on your part.

B) Second....NOW I see your reasoning.  You want us to forget all the RussiaGate stuff driving him out of office.....because he would be so bad for the environment.  Yea...that makes sense.... :o

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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1875 on: March 23, 2017, 02:45:51 PM »
I'm afraid that most of us outside of the American propaganda bubble will have difficulty keeping up with the breakneck pace of change. Seeing the power of this machine was one of the reasons that I returned to Canada after living in the States my entire adult life.


Much to my wife's disgust, I used to listen to Rush or Savage when making long nighttime drives across the desert. The comedic overtones were delicious. Hearing the same level of belligerent intolerance from those who, not so long ago, appealed to our intellect as opposed to our gut, is as disconcerting as hearing once rational people ordering Freedom Fries.


Those of us outside the bubble are unlikely to have much influence on those within, just as those of us on the outside are unlikely to be swayed by arguments that make perfect sense to those on the inside.


When Trump is attacked by the Koch brothers, those of us concerned with climate change can only hope that they are each well enough armed to do their opponent serious damage. The idea of the Koch brothers being brought to heal by Trump, or Trump's rule being brought up short by the Kochs brings tears to my eyes.
Imagine a Trump Supreme Court overturning Citizens United. :)


Terry

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1876 on: March 23, 2017, 03:03:39 PM »
Imagine a Trump Supreme Court overturning Citizens United. :)

You lost me (that's not hard).  But...IF you are saying that you think a Trump court actually WOULD overturn Citizens United....you are SORELY MISTAKEN.  Certainly Gorsuch will NOT vote to overturn it.

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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1877 on: March 23, 2017, 03:55:21 PM »
And for all this "Russiaphobia".....yea...I agree....the Russian politicians under Putin are good folks....what could they POSSIBLY do?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/russia-lawmaker-shot-dead-kiev_us_58d3cb34e4b0b22b0d1a4c1b?f5c23h3fhaht49529&

How many political murders is that since Putin took over....I've lost count.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 06:40:47 PM by Buddy »
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1878 on: March 23, 2017, 06:46:19 PM »
A couple of weeks ago....I said something to the extent of...."watch the next few weeks, as people under pressure make mistakes."

Well....yesterday, Donnie and Representative Nunes made an "unforced error."  Nunes....likely with some encouragement from Donnie, came out and spoke WITHOUT consulting the committee that he is co-chair of.

Now.....the pressure is SOLIDLY behind getting an unbiased commission.  I think either last night or this morning, they figured they better try to "patch things up".....but it's too late.

Pressure is now on to get an independent commission....which is more than appropriate for something of this magnitude of importance.

I expect to see McCain, Graham....and other moderate politicians push for an independent investigation.....and Donnie should be kicking himself now (it certainly would have been better to have someone like Nunes, who was on Trump's transition team....to be heading up the investigation).  Way to go Donnie......
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1879 on: March 23, 2017, 06:54:21 PM »
More of the Russia military.....  I don't get all this Russiaphobia stuff.... ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ukraine-russia-ammo-blast_us_58d3ed0be4b0f838c6303836?

It was probably the Greeks or the Turks...... ;)
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1880 on: March 23, 2017, 07:08:49 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Nunes apologizes to House Intel Committee, member says".  Nunes appears to have compromised himself and he should recuse himself from further investigation or face independent investigation himself for being a stooge for the administration that is itself under criminal investigation by the FBI.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/23/politics/devin-nunes-reaction-house-intelligence-committee-congress/

Extract: "House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes apologized to committee members Thursday, a Democrat on the panel told reporters, coming the day after Nunes told the public and the President that communications of him and associates may have been collected by intelligence agencies before telling Democratic members of the committee."
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1881 on: March 23, 2017, 07:23:59 PM »
More of the Russia military.....  I don't get all this Russiaphobia stuff.... ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ukraine-russia-ammo-blast_us_58d3ed0be4b0f838c6303836?

It was probably the Greeks or the Turks...... ;)

Remember the Maine - or The Halifax Explosion. or any number of instances when explosives exploded and the enemy of the day was blamed.




From the article:




"Ukraine did not provide evidence of Russian or rebel involvement."


Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1882 on: March 23, 2017, 07:58:55 PM »
"Ukraine did not provide evidence of Russian or rebel involvement."

It just happened.  I wouldn't expect them to.

Now....what were you saying about Citizens United???? ;)
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1883 on: March 23, 2017, 08:29:20 PM »
John Schindler, a conservative columnist for the New York Observer and a former National Security Agency analyst, declared on Twitter that "Trump will be forced out & his cronies will be indicted. Get ready."

Per John Schindler's tweet below....
================================
  John Schindler
✔  ‎@20committee 

The TS intel is devastating, as I've told you. Trump will be forced out & his cronies will be indicted. Get ready.http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/politics/us-officials-info-suggests-trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians/index.html

8:04 PM - 22 Mar 2017
================================

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/03/donald_trump_associates_will_b.html#incart_most-read_
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1884 on: March 23, 2017, 08:36:33 PM »
When Canada elected Stephen Harper and his merry band, those of us most opposed came up with a number of explanations for how a country that takes pride in being polite could have elected a right wing nut case.


We blamed a closed door meeting with Shrub, the sharing of American GOP voter software with the Conservatives, even the interference of the IDU, a shadowy far right organization that supports governments similar to Harper's.



The truth was that we didn't want to admit that our countrymen could have fallen for such an obvious con. We thought we were well educated, fairly affluent, and not susceptible to the populist BS Stevie was spewing.


A few years later our largest city elected a total buffoon as Mayor. Rob Ford's drunken, drug addled escapades made international news. How could the staid citizens of stodgy Toronto have voted for this clown?


Rather than Russian collusion, American software, or international interference, the reason these jerks got elected is that the voters had/have become disillusioned with the status quo. They voted for someone promising a new paradigm, someone who will be "for the people", someone even cruder than the voters themselves.


Harper overreached when he silenced the scientists, made aggressive moves toward Russia, and cut services that many approved of. Ford contracted one of those very rapid brain tumors that seem prevalent in some political circles, but Toronto had already tired of his very questionable leadership, and he might have faced a long confinement had he survived.


Toronto, Ontario (in the person of Harris), and Canada at the federal level, have all survived, and hopefully been inoculated against similar missteps. Voting is important. Elections matter.


We've yet to see whether America, and the world, can survive Trump.
We've yet to see whether America can or will learn from her mistake.


I don't think placing the blame elsewhere will help.


Terry

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1885 on: March 23, 2017, 08:41:58 PM »
"Ukraine did not provide evidence of Russian or rebel involvement."

It just happened.  I wouldn't expect them to.

Now....what were you saying about Citizens United? ??? ;)


The Koch brothers are two of the greatest beneficiaries of Citizens United. With Koch fighting Trump it is just barely possible that a Trump Supreme Court might see fit to slap the Koch machine - hard.


Not likely, but just possible. 8)


Terry

magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1886 on: March 23, 2017, 08:55:39 PM »
i think that this russia thing about trump is just a placeholder discussion lack of a proper point of attack which ultimately is as well a dishonest approach. thing is that looking at this guy, speaking moving, attitude as well as content of what he's uttering should simply let people say that this is not the kind of person we want as president, no matter what his connections to putin are.

should they find out that it was a storm in the waterglass this could backfire and fasten hime safely to that saddle where many don't want to see him which is why i consider the possibility that this entire russia thing is exploited by team trump themselves, knowing that many screamers who jumped on that bandwagon will look very bad and trump the better.

IMO there is only one relevant question and i believe the answer is no:

a) is he a trojan horse of Vlad. P. like they place at times agents into other important positions, i say no, probably not

b) does he have any interests in and with foreign establishment that would force him to neglect or torpedo U.S. American interests in favour of his own ( on significant levels of course, not talking about a golf course )
again i think that the answer is no, hence the battle cannot be won because the point of attack does not exist in the manner that would matter.

if those two and a few other questions can be answered with no, it will show sooner or later and he gets stronger and the attackers look bad, hence it would be more honest and target leading to name the horse by it's real name which is: we don't want a Narcissistic, rassistic sociopath who disrespects women as our president and do it the proper way.

thing is, that whenever i see that guy i think, if it were not so sad, it would be funny, it's ridiculous really.
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1887 on: March 23, 2017, 09:18:19 PM »
IMO there is only one relevant question

There IS only 1 relevant question....however, you did not state it.  The relevant question is this:

Did Donald Trump KNOWINGLY participate in the Russian intervention into the US presidential election, or did he encourage or direct his staff to do so....AND/OR.....did he and those in the Trump campaign COORDIATE WITH the Russians.

THAT....is the question that the FBI is looking into....and what the committees are looking into.   There are other areas of US LAW that Trump may/likely is in breach of as well (the emoluments clause)....but I'm leaving that out right now.

If (big IF) they did NOT coordinate with....or actively encourage in face-to-face dialogue with the Russians.....then he will be fine.  Of course.....they did.  And as this process plays out....you will begin to see how large this is going to grow....and how serious some of the charges will be.

I'm an Independent....not a Democrat or Republican.  What I want....is to get at the TRUTH.  I would be saying the same thing if it was Hillary Clinton.  We can NOT have a president who is working WITH or FOR anyone in a foreign government......to change the course of an American election.  It is as simple as that.  Of course....Trump and his folks did.  And I think the truth will continue to dribble out over the next 12 - 18 months....for all to see.





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meljay14

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1888 on: March 23, 2017, 10:45:06 PM »
Magnamentis, you wrote: "does he have any interests in and with foreign establishment that would force him to neglect or torpedo U.S. American interests in favour of his own ( on significant levels of course, not talking about a golf course )"

I think there is strong evidence that Trump would indeed neglect or torpedo US interests for the sake of a golf course. His narcissism gives him no sense of proportion (e.g. tweeting "Obama wire tapp" and "Arnold's terrible ratings" within minutes of each other.) This is one of the countless reasons I find him so dangerous.

Re whether the Russia thing is worth all this kerfuffle, all the other strikes against Trump were on display before the election but 27% of eligible voters voted for him anyway, and he got the GOP on board. The Russia thing wasn't really on display. Maybe this is the thing that can turn those voters, and, perhaps even more, the GOP? Similar reasoning to "They got Al Capone for tax evasion." You don't have to take him down for the worst things he's done, you just have to take him down.

Martin Gisser

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1889 on: March 24, 2017, 04:46:37 AM »
i think that this russia thing about trump is just a placeholder discussion lack of a proper point of attack which ultimately is as well a dishonest approach.
No. It's quite easy and straightforward. Short version with only 2 actors: Trump was either criminally stupid when getting Paul Manafort as his unpaid (!) campaign chairman, or Trump was knowingly involved in treason.

"AP Exclusive: Before Trump job, Manafort worked to aid Putin"
http://bigstory.ap.org/122ae0b5848345faa88108a03de40c5a


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Martin Gisser

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1890 on: March 24, 2017, 04:27:14 PM »
Here's a more detailed story in 40 tweets:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028841531#post59
Why is the earth silent at this destruction? (Martin Heidegger ca. 1937)

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1891 on: March 24, 2017, 10:04:12 PM »
Koch brothers - 1
Trump team   - 0


Trump pulls health care vote.


Hard to find a team to cheer for, but what's left of Obamacare is still apparently the law of the land.


Those outside the US may have difficulty believing just how broken the American health care system has been for decades. Before Obamacare people regularly lost whatever assets they managed to save in the last few months of their lives. When too sick to work they lost their job, and their insurance. New insurance was impossible because it didn't cover pre-existing conditions. Once your money was gone the quality of care dropped catastrophically and death soon followed.
Obamacare's intent was to assure that everyone carried some form of health insurance. If everyone isn't forced to buy in, then only the ill will sign up, raising rates for everyone covered. Without enforcing enrollment no insurance company can survive without screwing their customers.


Imagine what goes through your head when you're told that you probably won't live out the year, knowing that your care will cost your spouse every dollar the two of you have ever earned, and that he or she will thereafter never be able to afford the quality of health care that you are now receiving.
Lots of people "forget" to take needed medicines.


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1892 on: March 24, 2017, 10:38:35 PM »
Re: end of life medical expenses in the USA

Two cases I am personally acquainted with, the first refused all but palliative care at home after diagnosis in order to try and preserve the family farm, and refused all food toward the end. He was ready to go. The cost was still backbreaking for the family, and it is not clear they will save the farm. The second was diagnosed at almost the same time as his dog was also diagnosed with a terminal illness by a veterinarian whom I know. Knowing his precarious finances she offered to waive the $35 fee to put the animal to sleep. He courteously declined the offer, carried the dog out to the woods, shot it, and then himself.

Both had recently undergone large increases in their healthcare premiums which took place just before the last presidential election.

sidd

Martin Gisser

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1893 on: March 25, 2017, 12:51:33 AM »
Obamacare's intent was to assure that everyone carried some form of health insurance. If everyone isn't forced to buy in, then only the ill will sign up, raising rates for everyone covered. Without enforcing enrollment no insurance company can survive without screwing their customers.
This is so basic and elementary and well-known since Bismarck's German Health Insurance Bill of 1883 (i.e. more than a fucken century!). Why can some Americans still not understand it? Or, dare pretend to not understand it, yet get elected to (not laughed out of) Congress?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany#History
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Martin Gisser

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1894 on: March 25, 2017, 01:24:53 AM »
As I said, the danger of Trump's presidency is in his libertarian agenda that threatens to completely unshackle the US and thus global corporate drive for profits across the board. Instead of the largely symbolic but still important attempts to collectively address climate change this last quarter of a century he'll unleash the hydrocarbon dragon, next stop commercially viable Arctic drilling by 2030!

So while you're arguing about an illusory 'Russian threat', which just antagonizes the relationship with a fellow thermonuclear power, Trump and his ilk are preparing to send us on our reactionary way towards civilizational collapse and possibly species extinction sometime towards the end of this century or into the next.
You are talking about the other side of the same coin...

One might judge the Trump-Russia connection as an innocent attempt at improving peaceful business relations. (For the sake of simplicity let's forget the Russian side are criminal cleptocrats - e.g. I stopped counting recent assassinations.)
Even if we might think the Trumpists are not involved in high treason, this Russia business is all about totally unshackling the global hydrocarbon dragon.

The hydrocarbon dragon is one global economic epiphenomenon. Rex Tillerson is part of it. As a spawn of Exxon (a colonial power of its own), he is part of the beast just like Putin is. Now he is U.S. Secretary of State, with a Russian Order of Friendship awarded by Putin for good hydrocarbon business relations.

You may think this is not necessarily treason against the U.S. It is certainly treason against planet Earth, conspiring with the hydrocarbon dragon.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 01:36:02 AM by Martin Gisser »
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Zeug Gezeugt

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1895 on: March 25, 2017, 01:49:37 AM »
A)  First....thanks for "skipping over" the point about Trump INCRESASING THE MILITARY BUDGET.  I'm sure that was just an "oversight" on your part....as well as the fact he is already being MORE aggressive by allowing the CIA free reign over the use of drones....and his incursion into Yemen already.  Again...I'm sure those were innocent oversights on your part.

More aggressive than Obama and Hillary Clinton? Or Dubya? You've had over 15 years of constant bloody global warfare executed well outside the protections of the UN Charter and the Nuremberg laws concerning Supreme Crimes of Aggression, and thus technically illegal. This is the same war that Cheney warned us "would not end in our lifetimes", it has destroyed the global economy, wrecked your middle classes and poor, and slaughtered at least 2 million people across the Middle East. Obama nominally led that war for the entire 8 years of his two terms in office, that is if the buck really does stop at the US President's desk. He was in this sense a warmongering, mass murdering US Nazi no different from the others, and likewise Trump will either kowtow to the US war machine as Obama did or he will attempt to rein in the several trillion USD costs of these criminal foreign military adventures in order to fix the US domestic economy as he promised his deplorables. What's $53 billion worth if you can get the Pentagon's support to stop the multi-trillion $ GWOT?

However, my money is on him caving and kowtowing same as Obama but who knows as yet, we're still just a couple of months into his first term.

B) Second....NOW I see your reasoning.  You want us to forget all the RussiaGate stuff driving him out of office.....because he would be so bad for the environment.  Yea...that makes sense.... :o


These Russian delusions are becoming a laughing stock for the rest of the world, they're nothing other than a symptom of the collapse of US exceptionalism into rabid self harming hypocrisy, a civil war amongst your Keystone Kop intelligence agencies and political elites. It's all getting rather embarrassing for us Anglo vassals to the point it's not even being covered here so much in our corporate media because they presumably don't want to feed our old school sentiments that you yanks really are all just crazy bastards, especially now that you're led by a dodgy real estate salesman and reality TV star who you hilariously think is a Russian agent!

Meanwhile the poles are overheating and we've probably already gone through a climate change tipping point in 2007-12. The rest of the world is now waiting for our warmongering Anglo-American empire to finally collapse so they can start getting to work on the real problems. If you can hurry that up by reverting to 1950's neo-McCarthyist absurdities then please be my guest!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 02:40:20 AM by Zeug Gezeugt »

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1896 on: March 25, 2017, 04:18:22 AM »
A)  First....thanks for "skipping over" the point about Trump INCRESASING THE MILITARY BUDGET.  I'm sure that was just an "oversight" on your part....as well as the fact he is already being MORE aggressive by allowing the CIA free reign over the use of drones....and his incursion into Yemen already.  Again...I'm sure those were innocent oversights on your part.


More aggressive than Obama and Hillary Clinton? 


Yes, much more aggressive.  Obama didn't manage to end operations in Iraq, but came close.  He also drew down forces in Afghanistan.  Between those steps and negotiating the Sequester (which markedly restricted increases in defense spending), he did indeed make steps in the right direction.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/14/politifact-sheet-our-guide-to-military-spending-/

Meanwhile, Trump has escalated US involvement in Yemen and Syria, has declared a mission to expand the US nuclear arsenal, and is saber-rattling against N. Korea and Iran. He's proposed a very large increase in military spending that wouldn't have been contemplated by any democrat.

Meanwhile, there are multiple validated points of evidence of undue influence on Trump by Putin.  The world has nothing to gain by "improved" relations with Russia.  Such "improvement" would open the spigots to more fossil fuels, without reducing risk of war.

In contrast, their's little to be gained by wailing on about Trump's odious policies, because the Republican-controlled Congress and soon-to-be Republican-controlled Supreme Court will agree with those odious policies, regardless of complaints from the Left.

The most effective way to stymie Trump's policies is to demand an independent investigation (and then independent prosecutor) into undue foreign influence.  This is an issue that can make the Republican Congress think twice about supporting Trump (and his policies), and will make them worried enough about their political careers to make them think twice about losing more support by taking away anyone's healthcare or food security.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1897 on: March 25, 2017, 05:48:33 AM »
More aggressive than Obama and Hillary Clinton? 
Yes, much more aggressive.

You mean Hillary "We came, we saw, he died!" Clinton, who led the Libyan regime change atrocity to prove her permanent war president credentials for the post-Obama election? The same Clinton who was at the centre of the Benghazi disaster involving an arms and al Qaeda mercenary ratline into Syria to start off that regime change atrocity?

Again Barack "Assad must go" Obama bears ultimate responsibility for his SoS and her neoconservative deputies such as Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland who bragged about spending $5 billion on regime change in the Ukraine supporting Pravy Sektor neo-Nazi militants who then went on to murder their own ethnically Russian citizens, but who cares about Moskvals anyways, obviously not the US State Department. While I agree Obama did appear to at least attempt to resist the acceleration of the GWOT, even seeming to work with Putin at certain critical points, in the end he was just a charming talking head for a runaway US war machine.

And you yanks are seriously deluded about just how utterly criminal this permanent global war is, from start to whenever it finally finishes! This permanent bipartisan state of war, authorised under a single act of the US Congress in 2001, is an ongoing disaster not just for the US but the entire world. Trump will either kowtow to the deep state and keep fighting the GWOT, or be deposed, or somehow lead the US towards a brave new multipolar world where the US corporate state can no longer freely dictate its own self interests to the world at the point of a gun. This latter devolution of lone super power status would seem to be arriving sooner than later whether the neoconservatives like it or not. How the world order then evolves to cope with that change will also decide the extent to which humanity as a whole can then cooperate towards a real generational response to climate change.

The most effective way to stymie Trump's policies is to demand an independent investigation (and then independent prosecutor) into undue foreign influence.

Even though it's obviously, ludicrously false? Where the emperor literally has no clothes and the world is laughing in his face? Politically do you actually think the US domestic bubble world is so mind numbingly self deluded that this neo-McCarthyist Russophobia stands a good chance of unseating or at least constraining Trump?

What sort of delusional world view might then replace him do you think? And if we champion delusional thinking does that lead to a more informed society, a more balanced political economy that will then be able to deal with non-delusional realities such as accelerating climate change?

These are serious questions, and I would be seriously interested in your and others opinion on this matter.


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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1898 on: March 25, 2017, 06:14:22 AM »
. . .

The most effective way to stymie Trump's policies is to demand an independent investigation (and then independent prosecutor) into undue foreign influence.

Even though it's obviously, ludicrously false? Where the emperor literally has no clothes and the world is laughing in his face? Politically do you actually think the US domestic bubble world is so mind numbingly self deluded that this neo-McCarthyist Russophobia stands a good chance of unseating or at least constraining Trump?

It's not obviously false at all, and there's nothing ludicrous about it.  Do you think Obama put sanctions on Russia with no evidence of meddling?   The FBI is actively investigating.  Flynn was up to his eyeballs with foreign money, as was Manafort.  Tillerson was a damn peculiar choice for State, his only notable qualification seems to be a chummy relationship with Putin.

Yes, pursuing these lines of investigation is probably the most effective way to constrain Trump's agenda.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1899 on: March 25, 2017, 06:42:04 AM »
Politically do you actually think the US domestic bubble world is so mind numbingly self deluded that this neo-McCarthyist Russophobia stands a good chance of unseating or at least constraining Trump?
It's not obviously false at all, and there's nothing ludicrous about it.

Ha, I take it that's a "yes" then,  and your US domestic bubble world really is so mind numbingly self deluded that your ludicrously neo-McCarthyist Russophobia actually does stand some chance of unseating or constraining Trump, at least in your opinion.

As for whether I think Obama put sanctions on Russia with no evidence of meddling, well as there's absolutely no evidence of meddling that would actually seem to be the case. And yes, before you ask, I also think US presidents are totally capable of bare faced lying for political purposes, being politicians and all. I also have some old Iraqi WMD out the back shed you might be interested in.

The FBI says it is actively investigating, so where there's political smoke there's definitely political smoke. And Flynn was up to his eyeballs with foreign money, as was Manafort, along with just about every politician and lobbyist in the corrupt by design US political world, with of course the Clintons leading the foreign money pack by many tens of millions of dollars. But wait no! Forget the Clintons!! The Russians are coming ... THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING!!!

And all the while you fiddle with your mad delusions the world burns.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 10:59:36 AM by Zeug Gezeugt »