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Who are you going to vote for?

Clinton
31 (70.5%)
Johnson
2 (4.5%)
Stein
6 (13.6%)
Trump
1 (2.3%)
Not going to vote / going to spoil ballot
4 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")  (Read 179481 times)

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2650 on: August 08, 2017, 10:23:23 PM »
ASLR


What does all of this hostility towards Putin's Partners do to the "Trump is Putin's puppet" story?


Terry

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2651 on: August 08, 2017, 10:36:46 PM »
As Trump is running in to obstacles to privatizing US infrastructure, so he is now considering privatizing the Afghan War:

Title: "Blackwater founder Erik Prince proposes privatizing Afghanistan war"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-privatize-afghanistan-war-contractors/

Extract: "The Trump administration is, however, considering a plan proposed by Blackwater founder Erik Prince to privatize a large portion of the U.S. effort in Afghanistan. Prince's plan would send about 5,000 private military contractors to replace U.S. troops helping the Afghan army. Now executive director and chairman of Frontier Services Group, Prince said his plan would cut the annual cost of the war from an estimated $45 billion to less than $10 billion."



Privatizing the military sounds so much nicer than hiring mercenaries, don't you think?
I'd bet we could save even more money if we just sent in African child soldiers. They're cheap, don't eat much, and they're used to the heat.


Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2652 on: August 08, 2017, 11:00:27 PM »
What does all of this hostility towards Putin's Partners do to the "Trump is Putin's puppet" story?
Terry,

If Putin's plan is to use Trump as a puppet in order to drive the USA into total chaos (so that vultures can scavenge the carcass of the failing American Empire), then what better way is there to achieve this goal than to get the US tied-down in two concurrent (non-winnable) wars, would seem like a demonstration of the genius of Putin's plan.

ASLR
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2653 on: August 08, 2017, 11:13:46 PM »
If Putin's plan is to use Trump as a puppet in order to drive the USA into total chaos (so that vultures can scavenge the carcass of the failing American Empire), then what better way is there to achieve this goal than to get the US tied-down in two concurrent (non-winnable) wars, would seem like a demonstration of the genius of Putin's plan.


The linked NPR article supports the concept that one of Putin's objectives in using Trump as a puppet is: "… to soil the U.S. political process and undermine the credibility of the 2016 election."

Title: "Cover Lifted, A CIA Spy Offers His Take On Trump And Russia"

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/08/542106975/cover-lifted-a-cia-spy-offers-his-take-on-trump-and-russia

Extract: "Hoffman's long experience observing Russian spies at work leads to a surprising conclusion about one of the most sensational revelations from last year's election: that Trump Tower meeting in June 2016. The one attended by Donald Trump Jr., Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, campaign manager Paul Manafort — and Kremlin-connected Russians.

"To me," Hoffman says, "it pointed to a discoverable influence operation rather than some effort to establish a clandestine channel for collusion."

Both in NPR's interview and in an op-ed for The New York Times, Hoffman argues the meeting was meant to be discovered, that Putin deliberately left a trail of breadcrumbs from Trump Tower to the Kremlin.

And that the objective was simple: to soil the U.S. political process and undermine the credibility of the 2016 election."
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2654 on: August 08, 2017, 11:47:54 PM »
What does all of this hostility towards Putin's Partners do to the "Trump is Putin's puppet" story?

Terry,

If Putin's plan is to use Trump as a puppet in order to drive the USA into total chaos (so that vultures can scavenge the carcass), then what better way is there to achieve this goal than to get the US tied-down in two concurrent (non-winnable) wars, would seem like a demonstration of the genius of Putin's plan.

ASLR



Yep, he's certainly one smart cookie.


Who would have thought that by ordering his Trump puppet into declaring war on two of his own allies, he'd have achieved his own goal of maintaining friendly relations with America allowing both countries to fight against their common enemy ISIS.


That's almost unbelievably clever?


Edit:
From your last.
It now seems certain that rather than just covertly interfering with the 2016 election, Evil Putin's real plan was to let the stupid Americans believe that their election had been interfered with by Russia in order to weaken their preferred candidates Presidency. Just why Putin would want to destroy the legitimacy of his own puppet isn't yet clear, but what is clear is that Putin thinks so many moves ahead that only by resigning before the game has started do we have any chance of survival.


Putin is obviously so smart that we may as well surrender before he tricks us into bombing Washington.


 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? .


BTW Has everyone heard the latest Jimmy Dore screed?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lkrPgK_6d4


Jimmy has the hubris to believe that he knows better than 98% of the American Senate, AND, a much higher % of the American Congress. He thinks that all of these honorable legislators, vetted through the electoral filter of THE GREATEST DEMOCRACY THAT THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN, were wrong when they wrested foreign policy from their Commander in Chief, and took the sanctioning of Russia, and her business partners, into their own hands.


He drags the wants and needs of our European Vassals into the argument, conveniently ignoring our own Vicky Nuland's famous quote on that subject.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
The slow witted Europeans apparently can't grasp how their energy security will be enhanced when we curtail the flow of their major supplier.


I should warn all prospective viewers that Jimmy Dore uses a large amount of smut in this childish rant. He'd not only have us believe that he knows better than all of Washington's elected decision makers, he believes that we should care about the opinions of France, Germany and even China, then pretends that he is not simply another Puppet for Putin.


The audacity
Terry
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:08:02 AM by TerryM »

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2655 on: August 09, 2017, 01:15:42 AM »
Putin is obviously so smart that we may as well surrender before he tricks us into bombing Washington.

As Bannon/Trump would say: 'let the warfighters fight the war' (or 'Yield unto Caesar that which is his'):

Title: "Bannon: Trump wants to 'let the warfighters fight the war'"

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/06/24/bannon-trump-wants-to-let-the-warfighters-fight-the-war/22978009/
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2656 on: August 09, 2017, 03:05:11 AM »
Who would have thought that by ordering his Trump puppet into declaring war on two of his own allies, he'd have achieved his own goal ...

Not to beat a dead-horse, but Team Trump have developed a newspeak lexicon of international competition; where the world is no longer a 'community' but rather an 'area'.  In such a world countries like the USA and Russia no longer need to be worried about the well being of their allies; for example Trump has insulted the world community by withdrawing from the Paris accord, and keeps insulting NATO, Mexico, Australia, etc.
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Archimid

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2657 on: August 09, 2017, 01:49:26 PM »
Looks like Trump will get his war. N.Korea seems to have won the Distraction War lottery. Now we'll send poor young people to die and kill Korean people, just so Trump can pretend to keep his cowardly followers safe. 

There is nothing that these cowards love more than fake safety. They love the fake safety that climate change denial grants them, they love the fake safety that going to war grants them, they love the fake safety that comes from big government messing with the lives of immigrants.  What a sorry display of cowardice.

The bad thing is that this works. Cowards will hand over their rights to the Dear Leader in a split second. All they want is to feel safe and the leaders know how to pretend that they are keeping people safe.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2658 on: August 09, 2017, 02:07:01 PM »
Six and one half months in.....where are we?

1). The press is now calling out Trump.....in a "full throated manner.....as a liar, with the exception of his 2 co-conspirators at FOX......Jeanine Pirro and Sean Hannity.  Not a healthy environment where you have the head of the US conspiring to work with members of the press to obstruct justice.  Something I would expect Mueller to investigate.

2). More Republicans are questioning Trump....and taking a step back.  We still have a long ways to go before enough of them "bail".  It is a process and doesn't happen all at once....but it is slowly beginning to pick up speed.

3). Donnie is now becoming a "full throated" laughing stock by many in the public, many leaders around the world, and comedians (which is now becoming "dark humor"). 

4). The Trump administration will continue to spin out of control.  Why?  He gets advice from Bannon, Donnie Jr., 31 year old Stephen Miller, Ivanka Trump, 36 year old Jerrod Kushner.  If you surround yourself with bad people......you end up with bad decisions and bad outcomes.  It is as simple as that.  Top that with a guy that is temperamental and "shoot from the hip"....and someone who is under pressure from a RussiaGate investigation that continues to dig deeper into the cesspool that is Trump Inc......and you have one nasty martini.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 02:20:27 PM by Buddy »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2659 on: August 09, 2017, 05:29:01 PM »
The linked June 2017 NYTimes op-ed piece discusses how Team Trumps dog-eat-dog gestalt is poisoning the world community:

Title:  "Donald Trump Poisons the World"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/opinion/donald-trump-poisons-the-world.html

Extract: "This week, two of Donald Trump’s top advisers, H. R. McMaster and Gary Cohn, wrote the following passage in The Wall Street Journal: “The president embarked on his first foreign trip with a cleareyed outlook that the world is not a ‘global community’ but an arena where nations, nongovernmental actors and businesses engage and compete for advantage.”

That sentence is the epitome of the Trump project. It asserts that selfishness is the sole driver of human affairs. It grows out of a worldview that life is a competitive struggle for gain. It implies that cooperative communities are hypocritical covers for the selfish jockeying underneath.

The essay explains why the Trump people are suspicious of any cooperative global arrangement, like NATO and the various trade agreements. It helps explain why Trump pulled out of the Paris global-warming accord. This essay explains why Trump gravitates toward leaders like Vladimir Putin, the Saudi princes and various global strongmen: They share his core worldview that life is nakedly a selfish struggle for money and dominance."
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2660 on: August 09, 2017, 05:57:49 PM »
During the Trump years (months😉)....there are some LONG TERM trends to keep in mind:

1). The decline of oil companies (and nat gas companies will be following them down).  Exxon peaked in early 2014.....and it is in for a long painful fall in the many years ahead.

2). Continued decline in religion in the US that started its decline in about 1960.  And with all the religious con men like Huckabee and a raft of others.....they are going to continue to decline.  All the fake Christians jumping on the Trump train will speed up their demise in the next few years.

3). The huge move to electric power for both transportation and residential/commercial buildings.  Our energy costs are going to continue to decline long term.

4). The rise of AI.  This is an interesting one....especially for those who like truth.

This is the environment that Trump is now making his policy decisions.  It's also why I expect Trump to continue to make more bad decisions until he is booted out of office before his term is over.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 06:51:46 PM by Buddy »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2661 on: August 09, 2017, 06:33:13 PM »
Team Trump has already begun its voter suppression activities:

Title: "The Purges Are Coming"

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/08/jeff_sessions_doj_just_gave_states_the_green_light_to_purge_voter_rolls.html

Extract: "Jeff Sessions’ Justice Department just took a major stand against voting rights. It’s now up to the Supreme Court to protect the rolls."

The linked article indicates that the Trump Administration is continuing down a slippery path w.r.t. North Korea:

Title: "Mattis to North Korea: Stand down or risk end of regime"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mattis-to-north-korea-stand-down-or-risk-end-of-regime/

Extract: "Defense Secretary James Mattis expanded on President Trump's stern warning to the North Koreans, issuing his own threat to the regime, warning the regime to stand down in its pursuit of nuclear weapons.

In a statement released on Wednesday, Mattis said North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un should "take heed of the United Nations Security Council's unified vote", referring to a unanimous Security Council vote on Saturday that imposed a new round of sanctions on the regime to help curb North Korea's efforts in developing a nuclear weapon.

"The DPRK must choose to stop isolating itself and stand down its pursuit of nuclear weapons," Mattis continued. "The DPRK should cease any consideration of actions that would lead to the end of its regime and the destruction of its people.""

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 10:19:00 PM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2662 on: August 10, 2017, 12:16:43 AM »
A little wear & tear within the GOP:

Title: "Trump vs. McConnell"

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/09/trump-mitch-mcconnell-expectations-congress-241453

Extract: "The standoff between the GOP top dogs comes as the party confronts a huge legislative to-do list this fall.

Trump's punch at McConnell Wednesday came less than 48 hours after the Kentucky Republican suggested during an appearance in his home state that the president's inexperience gave him “excessive expectations” for the time frame required to rip up Obamacare. In fact, GOP leaders had projected days after Trump's inauguration that they would repeal the health care law and pass a tax bill by this month, neither of which has happened.

“Senator Mitch McConnell said I had ‘excessive expectations,’ but I don’t think so,” the president tweeted Wednesday afternoon. “After 7 years of hearing Repeal & Replace, why not done?”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2663 on: August 10, 2017, 12:23:40 AM »
For those who are interested: "A psychological analysis of Trump supporters has uncovered 5 key traits about them"

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/a-psychological-analysis-of-trump-supporters-has-uncovered-5-key-traits-about-them/
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2664 on: August 10, 2017, 01:07:34 AM »
"The DPRK must choose to stop isolating itself and stand down its pursuit? of nuclear weapons," Mattis continued. "The DPRK should cease any consideration of actions that would lead to the end of its regime and the destruction of its people.""
Isn't this a direct threat of genocide?


If genocide is a crime against humanity, shouldn't the threat of committing genocide be worthy of at least a stern dressing down? Perhaps an indeterminate stay in a soft walled room?


And what's the deal where Mattis demands that North Korea stop pursuing nuclear weapons? That pursuit ended years ago with N. Korea capturing the uranium ring. Is Mattis trying to lay a defense where he claims that he had no idea that N. Korea actually possessed nuclear weapons, and therefor has absolutely no responsibility for millions of deaths in say Seoul, or Tokyo?


North Korea has nuclear weapons. There is a reason we don't attack countries with nuclear weapons. The good general needs to recuse himself from this affair because he's proved himself to be as crazy as any of the fictional characters in "Doctor Strangelove, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb".


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2665 on: August 10, 2017, 01:58:51 AM »
Who has any idea what the Trump Administration means by its various (conflicting) statements.  However, as the linked article indicates, North Korea is technically in a state of war with the USA and South Korea as the 1950-53 conflict is currently only in a truce; so Donnie does not need to consult Congress to get heavy-handed:

Title: "North Korea warned by Mattis not to invite 'destruction'"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40879485

Extract: "North Korea remains technically in a state of war with the US and South Korea after the 1950-53 conflict on the peninsula ended in a truce."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2666 on: August 10, 2017, 02:31:27 AM »
'An increasingly tense tit-for-tat':

Title: "North Korea: Final Plan By Mid-August For Firing Missiles Near Guam"

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/09/542506463/north-korea-final-plan-by-mid-august-for-firing-missiles-near-guam

Extract: "North Korea said it would finalize plans for missile launches near Guam by the middle of this month and then wait for a green light from leader Kim Jong Un before carrying them out.

The statement, disseminated by state-run news agency KCNA, comes amid an increasingly tense tit-for-tat between Pyongyang and Washington, as well as reports that U.S. intelligence has determined that North Korea can now fix nuclear warheads onto its ballistic missiles, including an ICBM thought capable of reaching the United States."
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Martin Gisser

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2667 on: August 10, 2017, 02:47:43 AM »
North Korea has nuclear weapons. There is a reason we don't attack countries with nuclear weapons. The good general needs to recuse himself from this affair because he's proved himself to be as crazy as any of the fictional characters in "Doctor Strangelove, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb".


Terry
Methinks the problem is their artillery. Lots of artillery. Along the whole border. How to take that out in one strike? (BTW, they demonstrated VX, the "deadliest nerve agent ever created"... so fugettabout nucular...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/24/what-is-vx-nerve-agent-killed-kim-jong-nam-north-korea


Awaiting the invention of drone swarms...
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Archimid

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2668 on: August 10, 2017, 02:58:37 AM »
If it happens, it will be shock and awe doctrine. Their whole infrastructure will be destroyed like Saddam's. Lil Kim will be a goner in a matter of days. The problem will be the occupation and asymmetrical retaliation.  The chaos that breaking the current order will bring to the global world order I can't even guess.

Let's hope for a vigorous Arctic recovery.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2669 on: August 10, 2017, 03:56:55 AM »
If it happens, it will be shock and awe doctrine. Their whole infrastructure will be destroyed like Saddam's. Lil Kim will be a goner in a matter of days
Plus, Seoul. And 100,000s of collateral damage... If they can't take out NKs artillery quick enough. (That's why I call for drone swarms, a Japanese/Israeli/SK invention yet to come, for an entirely new anti-artillery scenario... (Been doing trig for huge German field artillery in the 1980ies, shooting better than new-GPS guided U.S. amis at Grafenwöhr...)

Here's a methinks overblown scenario (from April (yawn!) 2017, not 2013...):
http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/what-would-the-second-korean-war-look-like/
Should Pyongyang live up to its threat of turning Seoul into a “sea of fire,” casualties in the larger Seoul metropolitan area alone may surpass 100,000 within 48 hours, according to some estimates, even without the use of North Korean weapons of mass destruction.

Why is the earth silent at this destruction? (Martin Heidegger ca. 1937)

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2670 on: August 10, 2017, 04:18:29 AM »
If it happens, it will be shock and awe doctrine. Their whole infrastructure will be destroyed like Saddam's. Lil Kim will be a goner in a matter of days. The problem will be the occupation and asymmetrical retaliation.  The chaos that breaking the current order will bring to the global world order I can't even guess.

Let's hope for a vigorous Arctic recovery.

Conventional assaults from the air are rarely, if ever, decisive.  The horrific firebombings of Tokyo and German cities weren't enough.  Saddam persisted for a time after shock and awe.  KJU likely has extensive hardened underground facilities and NK has advanced mobile capabilities for artillery and other weaponry.  Trump is a war monger and would not hesitate to unleash MOABs and target civilian areas, but every time "they will be overwhelmed" projections are made wrt bringing a foe to its knees within days or weeks, they are usually proven wrong.  Humans never learn the key lesson of warfare:  don't do it again.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2671 on: August 10, 2017, 04:37:28 AM »
Do you find North Korea from the world map? 2/3 of Trumpistans do not. Be clever and find North Korea.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2672 on: August 10, 2017, 05:19:05 AM »
Do you find North Korea from the world map? 2/3 of Trumpistans do not. Be clever and find North Korea.
Not too far north of Seoul, South Korea, 11th world economy... Quite a bit of its suburbs within reach of standard artillery (30km WW2 ballistics), if not rockets with little vials of VX...

P.S. Hmmm, don't be too scared of nuclear war. Or maybe Trump should play with antiballistics next time. Trump/Bannon quoting ol Reagan's star wars speech on Twitter...

PP.S. This well-located NK ordnance might be primitive, but could well overwhelm any defenses. If not taken out quickly (rarely does time and coordination play such a crucial role...)...

pppp... so: time - less place/coordinates. wherever this crazy breed of late hominins resides...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 05:30:46 AM by Martin Gisser »
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Pmt111500

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2673 on: August 10, 2017, 05:25:14 AM »
Thanks for educating the Trumpistan public. Now if you could do the same concerning climate change and target your educational effort towards Trumpistan officials and diplomats who have been ordered not to tell the truth by president Tillerson, it would be nice.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2674 on: August 10, 2017, 06:23:52 AM »
Thanks for educating the Trumpistan public. Now if you could do the same concerning climate change and target your educational effort towards Trumpistan officials and diplomats who have been ordered not to tell the truth by president Tillerson, it would be nice.
Let them boil in their inconsistencies...

----
Apropos P.S. ...  8)
Pyongyang:
Trump had “let out a load of nonsense about ‘fire and fury’ failing to grasp the ongoing grave situation. This is extremely getting on the nerves of the infuriated Hwasong artillerymen of the KPA.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/10/north-korea-details-guam-strike-trump-load-of-nonsense
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2675 on: August 10, 2017, 12:55:44 PM »
Donnie's poll numbers in the US have slowly weakened since January.  But internationally that hasn't been the case.  They have COLLAPSED.

A Pugh poll in South Korea in January had 71% of SKorean's thinking that "Donald Trump would do the right thing regarding foreign affairs."  As of the end of June.... BEFORE the latest kerfuffle in Korea... it was down to 17%.  Down by 54 points.

Japan is down from 78% to 24%.....about the same in Australia.

Clearly international folks have more clarity on Donnie than many in the US.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:31:00 PM by Buddy »
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2676 on: August 10, 2017, 02:02:48 PM »
Yeah it will be ugly.  Regardless of the rain of fire they use to burn NK's artillery, some artillery rounds will go off, enough to cause significant colateral damage.  But it won't be long before the current regime loses power. A matter of days I believe. I think the biggest and bloodiest problems will be afterwards. Terrorism and resistance forces will spread the violence beyond Korea. I wouldn't be surprised if they hit the US with attacks that make 9/11 look like nothing.


All of this would of course benefit Trump. It will not benefit the economy, or the lives of those involved in the conflict, but it will give Trump the power of cowards looking at Trump for comfort and fake safety. He needs that power.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2677 on: August 10, 2017, 02:30:09 PM »
If it happens, it will be shock and awe doctrine. Their whole infrastructure will be destroyed like Saddam's. Lil Kim will be a goner in a matter of days.

But it won't be long before the current regime loses power. A matter of days I believe.

I'm not so sure. The United States has a long and worrisome history of underestimating the strength and willpower of those we battle against.

NK has one of the world's largest conventional militaries, and the country has many, many millions of able-bodied men and women of fighting age. They have biological weapons, and thousands of tons of chemical weapons; they have thousands of tanks and armored vehicles and vehicle-borne rocket launchers; they have many hundreds of aircraft, dozens of submarines, and at least a thousand weaponized missiles. And NK's citizens are constitutionally bound to defend their country to the death.

And, of course, they have at least a few dozen nukes.

IOW: this wouldn't be Grenada or Panama, or even Afghanistan or Iraq. This would be nearly akin to going to war with China or Russia so far as military pushback.

Having said that, NK's constrained geographical size would obviously keep the fighting theater equally constrained. (That is, unless hotheads start throwing nukes at each other and/or the whole mess turns into WWIII, in which case all bets are off.)

The NK military has standing orders to launch every one of its Seoul-aimed missiles should anything happen to Kim Jong-Un, or should they detect a massive invasion by American (or other) forces. Seoul will be thus be destroyed, with estimates of a trillion dollars in damage and a million casualties (dead and injured) within just weeks. That's not to mention the loss of one of the world's Great Cities, and the financial/emotional shock to world.

Sure, yes, NK would be left in tatters no doubt. But the cost for the world would be catastrophic.

Given all that, it's probably best if Trump just STFU about "fire and fury". We simply don't want to go there.

Archimid

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2678 on: August 10, 2017, 02:45:01 PM »
Ok, let me put it another way. The US will win a war with North Korea, like G.W Bush won the war in Iraq back in 2003.



14 years later people are still dying and the area is almost complete chaos.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2679 on: August 10, 2017, 02:58:37 PM »
If it happens, it will be shock and awe doctrine. Their whole infrastructure will be destroyed like Saddam's. Lil Kim will be a goner in a matter of days.
This is the sort of talk that makes most of us Europeans shit ourselves - for good reasons.
 No, I have no idea on how to get Kim and his cohorts to back down. It is not looking good. If N. Korea attacks US Territory, e.g. Guam, then Trump can invoke Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty. How to start WW3 in two easy steps.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2680 on: August 10, 2017, 03:47:31 PM »
This is the sort of talk that makes most of us Europeans shit ourselves - for good reasons.

Extremely good reasons. Europeans have a fresh memory of what war really means, most Americans have no idea what war means.  For most Americans war is a far distant danger. Donald Trump is particularly blind about this. He is a draft dodger. In his life experience war is nothing but profits. He has no clue of what he is getting us into.

In many ways Trump and Kim are the same. They are both prisoners of lifelong privilege. They are both equally oblivious about how much they don't know. They both think themselves above people.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2681 on: August 10, 2017, 05:07:52 PM »
If it happens, it will be shock and awe doctrine. Their whole infrastructure will be destroyed like Saddam's. Lil Kim will be a goner in a matter of days.

But it won't be long before the current regime loses power. A matter of days I believe.

I'm not so sure. The United States has a long and worrisome history of underestimating the strength and willpower of those we battle against.

NK has one of the world's largest conventional militaries, and the country has many, many millions of able-bodied men and women of fighting age. They have biological weapons, and thousands of tons of chemical weapons; they have thousands of tanks and armored vehicles and vehicle-borne rocket launchers; they have many hundreds of aircraft, dozens of submarines, and at least a thousand weaponized missiles. And NK's citizens are constitutionally bound to defend their country to the death.

And, of course, they have at least a few dozen nukes.

IOW: this wouldn't be Grenada or Panama, or even Afghanistan or Iraq. This would be nearly akin to going to war with China or Russia so far as military pushback.

Having said that, NK's constrained geographical size would obviously keep the fighting theater equally constrained. (That is, unless hotheads start throwing nukes at each other and/or the whole mess turns into WWIII, in which case all bets are off.)

The NK military has standing orders to launch every one of its Seoul-aimed missiles should anything happen to Kim Jong-Un, or should they detect a massive invasion by American (or other) forces. Seoul will be thus be destroyed, with estimates of a trillion dollars in damage and a million casualties (dead and injured) within just weeks. That's not to mention the loss of one of the world's Great Cities, and the financial/emotional shock to world.

Sure, yes, NK would be left in tatters no doubt. But the cost for the world would be catastrophic.

Given all that, it's probably best if Trump just STFU about "fire and fury". We simply don't want to go there.


Very well put. This isn't a pot to be stirred.
Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2682 on: August 10, 2017, 09:34:42 PM »
52% of GOP voter would support postponing the 2020 election if Trump were to propose such a plan.  If The Donald can start a war before 2020, he may well just do that:

Title: "More Than Half of Republicans Would Support Postponing the 2020 Election: Poll"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/more-half-republicans-would-support-postponing-2020-election-poll

Extract: "Despite the president's record-low approval ratings, a majority of Republicans say they would be willing to postpone the 2020 election if Trump were to propose such a plan. According to the poll conducted by two academic authors and published in The Washington Post, 52 percent support the idea.

The pollsters also found that 47 percent of Republicans believe Trump won the popular vote, while 86 percent believe that millions of illegal immigrants took part in the election. Seventy-three percent think voter fraud happens somewhat to very often."
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2683 on: August 10, 2017, 09:57:22 PM »
Here's an example of the stuff that is done while everyone is looking at squirrels:

McResistance Fully Supporting Trump's Bloated Military Budget

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2684 on: August 10, 2017, 10:33:01 PM »
When you're only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. When you spent the kids college fund buying flame throwers do you pray for rain?
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2685 on: August 11, 2017, 03:45:30 PM »
Looks like China has stepped in to play the part of the designated driver in the Korean standoff.

China has stated that if N Korea fires first....China will stay neutral in any war between N Korea and the US.  If the US were to strike first....then China would help its ally North Korea.

If North Korea launches anything headed in the direction of Japan/Guam.....those rockets will be taken out by the US and WWIII will be on.

Of course.....Donnie still has the ability to screw this up.  If he decides on a preemptive strike....then holy hell hits the fan.

I expect Kim to NOT launch rockets towards Guam.  He will likely either not do anything about launching rockets at Guam....OR.....come out and say he is giving the US one more chance....and if they mess with N Korea again....they will demolish us.

But at least for now.....looks like China is laying out a way out of this for now.  Either Kim or Donnie could still screw the pooch....but it least there is a way out of this for now if BOTH countries don't want a war.  If N Korea decides NOT to launch missles in the direction of Guam...hopefully Donnie will not choose to rub his face in it.... this is Donnie, so that is not assured.

We have two unstable actors here.....so either one could choose to "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" by doing something really stupid.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 04:27:33 PM by Buddy »
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2686 on: August 11, 2017, 03:57:51 PM »
Well, at least we're not going to war with Russia...yet!  :) :o ::) :-[ :'(
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2687 on: August 11, 2017, 06:29:46 PM »
Can we move the North Korea posts to a new Korea thread? Very informative but not really entirely on the Trump topic (the Korea situation is way too important to dilute with Trumpisms).

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2688 on: August 12, 2017, 01:29:12 AM »
We might need three threads.  I didn't know that Donnie was a hockey player...but it looks like he is working on a "hat trick":  North Korea,  Venezuela, and Iran.

And with his crack advisors like Jerud, Ivanka, Gorka, Stephen Miller, and Bannon...what could possibly go wrong?😳

I'm so glad Hillary isn't in charge....it would be so boring.  Now that we have a war monger in charge....it is much more exciting.  Ok....so he knows nothing about the military....he has 5 draft deferments to his record.....and he is a sociopath with a horrible decision making process.  Other than that.....he's perfect for this.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2689 on: August 12, 2017, 01:34:19 AM »
We might need three threads.  I didn't know that Donnie was a hockey player...but it looks like he is working on a "hat trick":  North Korea,  Venezuela, and Iran.
 


Title: "Trump threatens Venezuela with 'military option'"

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-threatens-venezuela-with-military-option/ar-AApTMLD?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Extract: "U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday threatened a military intervention in Venezuela, a surprise escalation in Washington's response to Venezuela's political crisis.

"The people are suffering and they are dying. We have many options for Venezuela including a possible military option if necessary," Trump told reporters."
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2690 on: August 12, 2017, 01:37:35 AM »
We might need three threads.  I didn't know that Donnie was a hockey player...but it looks like he is working on a "hat trick":  North Korea,  Venezuela, and Iran.

And with his crack advisors like Jerud, Ivanka, Gorka, Stephen Miller, and Bannon...what could possibly go wrong?😳

I'm so glad Hillary isn't in charge....it would be so boring Booming.  Now that we have a war monger in charge....it is much more exciting.  Ok....so he knows nothing about the military....he has 5 draft deferments to his record.....and he is a sociopath with a horrible decision making process.  Other than that.....he's perfect for this.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2691 on: August 12, 2017, 02:48:27 AM »
I feel so left out.   :'(

All I keep hearing is Trump, Kim ... Trump, Kim.  ::)

Look, here in England we got nukes too, and a not too sane PM.  How come Trump isn't threatening London with fire and fury?  His failure to so threaten can only be explained by assuming that he is completely irrational.  Sad.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2692 on: August 12, 2017, 11:08:42 AM »
I feel so left out.   :'(

All I keep hearing is Trump, Kim ... Trump, Kim.  ::)

Look, here in England we got nukes too, and a not too sane PM.  How come Trump isn't threatening London with fire and fury?  His failure to so threaten can only be explained by assuming that he is completely irrational.  Sad.

Facetiousness aside, there's a real point here.  The N Korean rhetoric has long been utterly over the top.  But concrete actions to me seem completely rational -- to the sole aim of preserving the Kim family's permanent status.  The nation has nothing of note except a massive military, there for deterrence.  I see no reason to think that their nukes are intended for anything other than deterrence.  Even the crazy rhetoric serves to convince everyone that the military force will be used vigorously if a serious threat to the regime arises.

In this context, it seems to me it is likely much less dangerous for N Korea to have nukes than for Pakistan to have nukes.  Pakistan's government is far less stable, and it's plausible that one or another extremist element could take charge, and maybe actually be crazy enough to use the nukes.

Yet the US is now obsessing over N Korea's capabilities, while not giving even a passing thought to Pakistan's.  If anything, it ought to be the other way around.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2693 on: August 12, 2017, 03:11:29 PM »
The three nut cases to keep an eye on in Donnie's administration are Gorka, Bannon, and Baby Stephen Miller.  Those....along with Trump and Sessions comprise the hard corps racists.  Just how crazy will Donnie allow them to be?

Will he allow them to wear their white capes to work on "casual Friday's"?  Just how far will he allow them to go.  The Trump Administration, lead by lap-dog Jeff Sessions continues its move against minorities at the voting booth.  If you're trying to build a monarchy like Vlad...you have to control the vote.

Aren't you glad Hillary isn't in the Oval Office?  We wouldn't have all of this racism if she were there...and what fun would that be?

Gorka 2024😳
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2694 on: August 12, 2017, 03:34:53 PM »
Another person to keep an eye on in coming weeks and months is Nikki Haley.....head of the US contingent to the United Nations.  She has, from time-to-time charted a course somewhat different from SCROTUS.  She may be starting to think this isn't the best career move she ever made.  The look on her face when Donnie (SCROTUS) said he wouldn't rule out military action in Venezuela...was priceless.  It was a WTF look 👀 if I ever saw one.

Donnie is becoming more erratic now that he is playing general big britches...so he is becoming more and more dangerous.  I expect more and more people will eventually have to begin to distance themselves.....some of them by quitting.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2695 on: August 12, 2017, 05:50:22 PM »
Watch for possible change in Sec of Energy.  Donnie wants Joe Manchin to head it up...so Dems would lose 1 seat in the Senate and then be able to push through Trumpcare.  Gov of West Virginia is now a Republican.  I'll be surprised if Manchin doesn't take it...he has always been a DINO....Democrat in name only...

This would move Rick Perry to Homeland Security...
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2696 on: August 12, 2017, 07:10:55 PM »
I feel so left out.   :'(

All I keep hearing is Trump, Kim ... Trump, Kim.  ::)

Look, here in England we got nukes too, and a not too sane PM.  How come Trump isn't threatening London with fire and fury?  His failure to so threaten can only be explained by assuming that he is completely irrational.  Sad.
Do not worry. The Boris is now taking charge - even sending Tweets. Lttle Britain will show those johnny-come-lately colonialists how to really screw up.

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2697 on: August 12, 2017, 11:27:55 PM »
RM examines some of Trump's shady financial deals that Mueller may well dig into (many of which potentially broke state laws):

Title: "Watch: Rachel Maddow Digs into Trump's"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/watch-rachel-maddow-digs-trumps-shady-financial-past

Extract: "Remember that time in the 1980s when Trump short-changed New York City by $2.8 million? Rachel does."
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2698 on: August 13, 2017, 01:18:05 AM »
Looks like SCROTUS may have his boxers in a bind.  Not including himself and his also racist attorney general.....Donnie's going to have to offload some of the other racists like Bannon, Stephen Miller, Gorka.....  Otherwise he may pay a price both in his polling numbers AND with a couple of his more reasonable admin members eventually:  Mattis, Kelly, and Nikki Haley.

They have their limits of supporting a lying racist with an oversized ego and lack of ethics.  While some in the populace choose to support someone like him....anyone with a half a dose of ethics is going to flee from him like a chef running from a maggot filled kitchen (administration).  They have to look at themselves in the mirror......and eventually their ethics will force them to leave.  I noted this a couple of months ago....but we are now moving more quickly towards that eventuality.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2699 on: August 13, 2017, 02:20:24 AM »
Character is not revealed when everything is going great....character is revealed when things don't go well.  SCROTUS has failed his character test MISERABLY today.

You peel the apple from the outside in.....and eventually see what is at the core.  Is it healthy or is it rotten?  Donnie is showing us once again.....that he is rotten to the core.
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