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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1600 on: February 21, 2017, 01:56:19 AM »
At the following link, see the Global Philanthropy Forum video entitled: "A Competition Between Systems: Good Governance or Corruption".  Focusing on Africa, it discusses the "winner take all" mindset and 'unfairly' taking from 'others' (women, young, etc.) and how (what processes) to overcome such recurring problems, such as the 'Arab Spring', or the 'Occupy', movements (and multiple associated issues) in a modern, interconnected, rapidly-changing, world.  Key parameters need to be measured, and decision makers (both in business & government) need to be held accountable.


https://www.philanthropyforum.org/issues/democracy-governance/


“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1601 on: February 21, 2017, 03:07:35 AM »
The white supremacists are having a field day in US....

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1602 on: February 21, 2017, 03:19:54 AM »
Just to be clear, Russia has had a regularly updated psychological profile on Trump for many years and the linked news story is a red herring to make people think that Russia has not previously targeted Trump.

The linked article is entitled: “Russia Compiles Psychological Dossier on Trump for Putin”.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-compiles-psychological-dossier-trump-putin-n723196

Extract: “Among its preliminary conclusions is that the new American leader is a risk-taker who can be naïve, according to a senior Kremlin adviser.

Trump "doesn't understand fully who is Mr. Putin — he is a tough guy," former Deputy Foreign Minister Andrei Fedorov told NBC News.

So while many in Russia celebrated Trump's election, the mood in Moscow was changing from delight at Trump's election to doubt about his ability to deliver on a better relationship with Russia, he added.

"Donald Trump has done nothing good for Russia, nothing," Markov said. "But they already attack him.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Herfried

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1603 on: February 21, 2017, 07:48:55 AM »
Trump, Putin, Erdogan... They share basic personality attributes. Ok, Putin was a tough guy, the otjer never were. But Putin also. Hanges to a rich, highly corrupt self-expressor. All three love show, all want to be in the center of attention, all three see their countries as huge opportunity to gain billions of Dollars for their own business.

Trump says America first? What a joke. It's Trump first. And the same in Russia with Putin and in Turkey with Erdogan. They sqish the max. out of theor countries. Like a orange juice maker.
Maybe that was the, reason Putin hoped, they will be able to understand, to be friends.

After a close call to war with Erdogan, it finally works there... With USA, now Trump needs to keep his friends calmed, or he will see his Watergate soon. So he cannot right now... But he,definitely has the ntention to befriend with other corrupt states to form a global Corruptistan. And he fears the power of China for good, he will do any alliance if it helps.

Having a self-loving corrupt gambler with a massive drug-abuse like self-expression problem as president of the US... does nothing for the safety of earth.

JayW

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1604 on: February 21, 2017, 12:45:44 PM »
I worry that trump and his people have a sick desire to see nuclear weapons used. 
"To defy the laws of tradition, is a crusade only of the brave" - Les Claypool

magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1605 on: February 21, 2017, 02:14:23 PM »
some swiss woman made a graphological expertise of trums writings, unfortunately it's a video and in swiss german, hence not useful for this thread, perhaps someone from the US or another english speaking country will be able to provide one in english, would be interesting for this thread haha....

the result confirms most of what is written here hence it does not make much sense to repeat all of it :-)

here a few links for those who understand :-)

while the newspapers are not scientific the graphologists are reputed.

https://kurier.at/wissen/grafologie-das-sagt-donald-trumps-handschrift-aus/242.109.046

http://www.blick.ch/news/ausland/blick-laesst-donald-trumps-schrift-analysieren-eine-unterschrift-wie-eine-mauer-id6253053.html

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1606 on: February 21, 2017, 03:19:42 PM »
What does the future hold for democracy in America ? aka "The Great Experiment".

On bad days I go to Plato. Plato wrote (in imaginary conversations with his teacher Socrates):

“Last of all comes … the tyrant. … In the early days of his power, he is full of smiles, and he salutes every one whom he meets … making promises in public and also in private, liberating debtors, and distributing land to the people and his followers, and wanting to be so kind and good to every one. …

“And the protector of the people … having a mob entirely at his disposal, he is not restrained from shedding the blood of kinsmen; by the favourite method of false accusation he brings them into court and murders them

“The tyrant must be always getting up a war. … He is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader. …”

“Then some of those who joined in setting him up, and who are in power, speak their minds to him and to one another, and the more courageous of them cast in his teeth what is being done. … And the tyrant, if he means to rule, must get rid of them; he cannot stop while he has a friend or an enemy who is good for anything.

“Thus liberty, getting out of all order and reason, passes into the harshest and bitterest form of slavery. … May we not rightly say that we have sufficiently discussed … the manner of the transition from democracy to tyranny? Yes, quite enough, he said. … A tyranny is the wretchedest form of government … the longer he lives the more of a tyrant he becomes. …”

"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1607 on: February 21, 2017, 05:22:56 PM »
Great post Gerontocrat. The linked article from Huffington Post suggests getting rid of Trump could be easier than expected:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/getting-rid-of-trump-easy-neither-impeachment-nor_us_58aa697ae4b0b0e1e0e20d2e

If Trump were investigated regarding conflicts of interest, they would likely subpoena his tax returns, which the writer believes Trump would never do, possibly resulting in Trump resigning. Impeachment would not be required, nor would a finding of incapacity by the Cabinet.


Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1608 on: February 21, 2017, 05:45:02 PM »
Maybe this is Trump's plan to bring back the "Pony Express".  Maybe if it was "coal fired" it would have a better chance:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Trump-administration-deals-a-big-setback-to-10941880.php

By the way....Elaine Chao "just happens to be" the wife of Kentucky senator.....and turtle look-a-like....Mitch McConnell...who happens to be from a "coal state."  ;)

Maybe Donnie is going to do away with the internet next.  Boy....the inventor, Al Gore, is really going to be pissed if he does away with the internet. ;)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 05:59:46 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1609 on: February 21, 2017, 06:19:34 PM »
Maybe Donnie can file this one under the "Make Mexico Great Again" tab:

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/billionaire-carlos-slim-to-launch-a-made-in-mexico-ev/

Not only are they NOT going to "pay for that wall"......they are going to undercut US cars.  Maybe since Donnie is still a child.....that he hasn't learned that you don't want to piss everyone off......because sometimes all they have to do is turn around and PISS ON YOU.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1610 on: February 21, 2017, 06:29:25 PM »
At least Trumps campaign staff will be able to travel around Ukraine and Crimea in style from now on..... 8)

Oil companies are in SUCH DEEP DO DO right now.....and it's getting worse by the day.

And here in the US....we are stuck with a FAKE leader.....who is beholden to the fossil fuel companies.  It won't have a HUGE effect on climate, because it won't last very long....most industries KNOW where this party is heading.....and it ISN'T heading towards fossil fuels.

Aren't you glad that FOX News LIED FOR 25 YEARS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING.  We...in the US...should be THEE LEADER in solar and wind.....but Donnie is going to have us well down the ladder.....while Europe and Asia blow by us.

THANKS DONNIE.........IDIOT
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1611 on: February 21, 2017, 06:34:20 PM »
Hullo Budmantis.
When the Huff Post suggests that Trump can be disposed of easily methinks they are booking a ticket to Cloud Cuckoo Land.  Unenlightened self-interest rules, OK ?  Can you see a Republican Congress impeaching their President ?  One only has to whisper the word "Nixon" and ....

What cannot be helped must be endured. Perhaps the ASIF needs a thread on PRACTICAL things that can be done to mitigate the Trump effect. Emotional responses to be struck down by the dreaded ASIF Governor ?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1612 on: February 21, 2017, 07:19:44 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "The Richest Man in the World Could Be Putin", possibly this will incentive Trump to follow in Putin's kleptocratic footsteps.

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-02-17/vladimir-putin-could-be-worlds-richest-man-with-200-billion-net-worth-report-says

Extract: "Russian President Vladimir Putin has amassed a massive fortune, potentially the largest in the world.

International Business Times pointed out on Wednesday that Putin's fortune could be as much as $200 billion."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1613 on: February 21, 2017, 07:20:37 PM »
Gerontocrat:

Although the idea seems farfetched and unlikely, it is still plausible. Trump is vulnerable due to multiple conflicts of interest. It's not in the GOP's interest to do anything at this time, but the time may come when it is. Also, the GOP would much prefer to have Pence as President. Something to keep in mind.

I haven't been posting much on this thread recently, as I think with few exceptions everything that can be said has been said. We just have to wait and see what happens. I agree with Neven that the best expenditure of energy at this time is to work at changing the Democratic party for the better. I'm keeping an eye on what the "Justice" Democrats are doing. To the extent possible, we have to kick the corporate influence out of the Democratic party.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1614 on: February 21, 2017, 08:16:12 PM »
In the broad economy there are a few good things that have been "percolating" over the past 3 - 10 years....and are CONTINUING to march forward:

1)  Renewable energy.....costs CONTINUE TO PLUMET LIKE A ROCK.....and will keep energy costs dropping in future years.

2)  Insurance costs for vehicles:  As driverless cars continue to improve....the insurance costs should come down DRASTICALLY in the next few years.....ESPECIALLY if you're a crappy driver.  But they will come down for EVERYONE.

3)  Transportation costs:  Should also continue to drop....both the cost of electric cars....AND the costs of maintaining them.  This will put a lot of "cashola" in peoples pockets who probably need it most.

4)  Healthcare costs:  OK...I'm going to step out onto ANOTHER LIMB.  I think California has a good chance of being the first state to go to a "single payer" healthcare system in the next 2 - 4 years.  AND....it will decrease costs.  "How do you like THEM apples."

And Donnie is on the OTHER SIDE OF ALL OF THESE.....   If I were a Democrat I would be even more thrilled.....because Republicans are on the other side of most of these as well...

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1615 on: February 21, 2017, 08:38:03 PM »
Budm


I think you are on the right track when you advocate for restructuring the Democratic Party in hopes of picking up seats in 2018 & beyond.


The Wiki page for "Justice Democrats" lists a number of positions they are taking that will, in my mind, assure that their opposition will win most of the so called swing states.
If state level wins can be made prior to the 2020 gerrymandering season, there may be hope moving forward.
Advocating for gun registration ends any chance of actually winning in many states. Universal healthcare is a no brainer, but anyone running with "Socialized Medical Care" will loose.


First we need to win some seats, then we need to gerrymander in our favor, then we can enact legislation that is needed, even if it's not wanted.


It stinks, but that's what American politics reeks of.


Terry

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1616 on: February 21, 2017, 11:35:07 PM »
Pruitt to EPA employees: 'We don't have to choose' between jobs and the environment

What Scottie DOESN'T understand about that statement.....is that we WILL have a cleaner environment as coal, natural gas, and oil are replaced.  He doesn't "get that" yet....but methinks he will.  Like Donnie.....Scottie is NOT the "brightest bulb in the package."

He is kind of like the coyote in those old cartoons of "The Roadrunner."  He is the coyote at the bottom of the ravine that is going to get hit with the rock coming down on his head.  He doesn't see it coming....before its too late.

He will end up being the heaviest weight that the Trump cabinet will have to carry through its SHORT term.  And outside of Donnie......Scottie will be the one that does the most damage to THE TRUMP CABINET.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-epa-pruitt-environment-20170221-story.html
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1617 on: February 22, 2017, 12:48:07 AM »
Monitoring Trump's numerous potential conflicts of interest has become a full-time job for many in the mainstream media.  See the linked article entitled: "NPR has created a team devoted to covering President Trump’s conflicts of interest"

https://www.poynter.org/2017/npr-has-created-a-team-devoted-to-covering-president-trumps-conflicts-of-interest/448886/

Extract: "The New York Times created a series of circular graphics showing how Trump’s business efforts potentially intertwine with the federal government.

Buzzfeed logged more than 1,500 people and organizations connected to the Trump family and their advisers, which independent designer Kim Albrecht turned into a complex data visualization.

And ProPublica has been on the paper trail for weeks, reporting in early February on Ivanka Trump’s lack of documents divesting her of Trump business interests. That mirrored ProPublica's reporting on Inauguration Day concerning the President’s "then-absent paperwork."

NPR, meanwhile, created an entirely new initiative to cover possible conflicts of interest. They tapped veteran business editor Marilyn Geewax to lead the Conflicts Team, which has three full-time staffers and an intern.

Their reporting includes stories on potential foreign conflicts, possible ethics holes, federal ethics rules concerning product endorsement and various legal conflicts that intertwine with the president’s companies."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1618 on: February 22, 2017, 12:58:42 AM »

First we need to win some seats, then we need to gerrymander in our favor, then we can enact legislation that is needed, even if it's not wanted.


It stinks, but that's what American politics reeks of.


Terry

I agree Terry, American politics does reek. Here in Florida in the RV park my wife and I live in, we are surrounded by Canadians, mostly from the maritimes. It's refreshing to talk to people that are not paranoid about gun control and single payer healthcare. These Canadian snowbirds cant be away from their home country for more than six months, otherwise they lose they're healthcare benefits. There are some Canadians that stay year round, but they are few and far between.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1619 on: February 22, 2017, 01:36:10 AM »
We've got some pretty pissed off voters in the US right now.  They're PO'd at the Republicans....and Trump.

It's good to see people calling out Mitch McConnell for a LYING POS at a town hall.....he's easily one of the worst in Senate.  But he has a lot of lying company.

Remember....we're only in WEEK 5.  Think about that.....let that soak in.  Wait till Scottie Pruitt's emails hit the streets....and the EPA policies start coming out.  Wait till more and more company's and countries CONTINUE TO PUSH ALTERNATIVE ENERGY.  The snow ball is heading down hill....it's getting bigger.....and it's going to take out some lying politicians along the way.... 

April 22nd.....mark it down.  Also good to see Nike step up to the plate:



There will be MANY....MANY others in coming weeks.  Hang on to your hat Donnie......citizens are you coming for you and your failed policies........


FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Martin Gisser

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1620 on: February 22, 2017, 01:38:40 AM »
People feeling screwed by bad economic/social policy? Heck, vote for more! Obama, Clinton not perfect? Heck, vote for those who obstructed them! Kleptocrats getting richer? Heck, vote for more of the same Reagonomics!
Enough of kleptocrats? Lock up Hillary! ...

Slowly but surely, Trump stuff is getting interesting:
There's also a Ukraine connection, as U.S. voters could have known: Paul Manafort. Whom to lock up first, Flynn or Manafort? Is Jeff Sessions' U.S. Dept. of Justice working for Justice or for Trump? Will cabal of USA/Ukraine/Russia kleptocrats be investigated?

Rachel Maddow has some graphic footage of the riches of Ukraine's ex kleptocrat Wiktor Janukowytsch, a customer of Manafort - as was Trump.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/russian-confirmations-complicate-dubious-white-house-denials
Quite an involved story (pun intended), and one of the things Trump/Bannon want us to get distracted from.

Quote
Maddow described apparent contradictory New York Times and Washington Post reporting on a January meeting between Donald Trump’s “personal lawyer” Michael Cohen; Andrii Artemenko, a Ukrainian legislator connected to the party founded by Manafort and Viktor Yanukovych; and Felix Slater, a business associate of Donald Trump.
...
Reporting on the story from the Times and the Post diverges at this point, with the Times reporting that Michael Cohen hand delivered an envelope containing an outline of the plan to then-National Security Adviser Michael Flynn at the White House.
The Times reports that Cohen personally stated that he left a “sealed envelope” with the plan in the office of Flynn. However, the Post reports that, when speaking with them, Cohen denied leaving a copy of the plan with Michael Flynn, or discussing it with him, and called the accusations “fake news.”
...
http://www.inquisitr.com/4001067/dmitry-firtash-paul-manafort-ukraine-connection-to-be-extradited-from-austria/
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 01:55:52 AM by Martin Gisser »

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1621 on: February 22, 2017, 03:48:03 AM »
Terry, I really don't think we need to gerrymander anything.

We need to un-gerrymander most of the country, then we have to start working do UN-disenfranchize much of the republic...no voter ID, no electoral college, no exclusion of the formerly incarcerated...all of that BS has got to go.

And we have to have election day on a weekend or holiday and make it completely simple for anyone who wants to to vote before election day.

Let the people actually vote, and mostly we will have good outcomes.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1622 on: February 22, 2017, 05:00:53 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “Deeper and darker: Trump’s unknown financial connections to Russia may hold the key to the widening scandal”.  We will see how deep this hole goes:

http://www.salon.com/2017/02/21/deeper-and-darker-trumps-unknown-financial-connections-to-russia-may-hold-the-key-to-the-widening-scandal/

Extract: “Deeper and deeper: Congress wakes up as Trump's ties to Russia look more tangled and troubling than ever.

Over the weekend, a startling new report appeared in The New York Times:

A week before Michael T. Flynn resigned as national security adviser, a sealed proposal was hand-delivered to his office, outlining a way for President Trump to lift sanctions against Russia. Mr. Flynn is gone, having been caught lying about his own discussion of sanctions with the Russian ambassador. But the proposal, a peace plan for Ukraine and Russia, remains, along with those pushing it: Michael D. Cohen, the president’s personal lawyer, who delivered the document; Felix H. Sater, a business associate who helped Mr. Trump scout deals in Russia; and a Ukrainian lawmaker trying to rise in a political opposition movement shaped in part by Mr. Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1623 on: February 22, 2017, 10:26:10 AM »
JimD had a great post on the Empire - America and the future thread. Here it is in full:

----

Cross posted from The Trump Presidency thread. JimD, ASLR cross posted your reply dated 1/14/17. After reading, I posted some comments about it. ASLR suggested I address my comments and questions to you. I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.

__________________________________________________________________________

Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1106 on: Today at 06:21:56 AM »

ASLR: In regards to JimD's post from 1/14/17, six days before Trump was inaugurated, I have some observations:

1. The Deep State certainly hasn't come into existence recently. Therefore, all Presidents in the past thirty years have not faced such a threat. Which means either they were part of this apparatus or were not perceived as a threat to them.

2. Trump is trying to rule as an autocrat would, a surefire recipe for eventual removal from office by either impeachment or being found unfit to serve. Either way, his time in office will be short. Why not just let him implode instead of trying to take him out? The only reason has to be that the deep state finds him such a threat to their plans that they deem it necessary to remove him from office quickly.

3. Those of us that didn't vote for Trump cant stand the guy and find the present situation intolerable. Speaking for myself, I want him and his ilk out, but not before he's seen for what he is by his own supporters, otherwise he'll be considered a martyr for their cause, and their cause will continue. As there is a significant minority that are diehard Trumpsters, it is in everyone's interest that these folk see him for what he is.

4. If trying to stop the deep state from removing Trump by a coup, what can we do (if anything) to stop them?

bud

Sorry to not respond earlier but I no longer spend much time here as I have mostly moved on to other venues.

I have never read the Trump thread you mention so I cannot address any thing there.

1.  I think you could say with certainty that all of our previous presidents going back to before I was born were not enemies of the "Deep State" and therefore there was no interest in removing any of them.  Pretty much all national level politicians are fully vetted members of the group of folks who can consider seriously running for president.  The entire structure of how we vet, select and fund candidates allows a solid level of control along these lines.  I don't believe this is an accident either.  This is not to say that the Deep State actors are monolithic though.  There are differences of opinion on what is best and how to get there.  And rivalries as always. There is, however, a strong consensus on the general ideology and global strategies.  The strong evidence for this is how little separates the Obama/Clinton's from the Bush/Reagan's when it comes to the more significant policies.  The two camps have to have constituencies to get their share of power and they have sort of divided up the citizens to make the system work.  Sanders and Trump broke the mold by running around the funding mechanisms and successfully going right to the people for their cash and by appealing directly to them.  This is anathema to the Deep State as they lose control of the outcome.  In Sanders case the DNC (being the left wing branch of the Capitalist Party) managed to execute a plan to defeat him and hang onto their candidate.  The Republicans, who were united in their attempt to prevent Trump (and who allied with Clinton, the press and the big money) failed.  Clinton's incompetence rose to the occasion and we now have Trump.  So to the Deep State there is two solutions now.  The one which will be worked very hard is to pressure Trump to evolve into a position where, regardless of rhetoric, he is sufficiently following the general directions of where the right wing of the Capitalist Party wants to go that everyone will be accepting of the current governing personnel.  We can already see Trump 'negotiating' his evolution towards some of their desires. The 2nd and very unlikely avenue is to remove Trump - but this is really unlikely.  And not to be desired as some long thought about the consequences will show you. 

2.  Sorry but I think your # 2 comments are way off base and unlikely.  All presidents tend towards autocracy in our system as we have a sort of Imperial Presidency.  But most of the hysterics from the defeated Clintonites is just that.  Obama was more autocratic than Bush Jr but he was given a pass by the Dems because he was Obama and they owned him.  Very few of the actual actions of Trump to date are measurably different than the actions of his predecessors. The Press and the Dems are just howling at everything now to make trouble and "resistance". 

I don't think there is a better than 5% chance that Trump does not serve out his full term.  He is not going to fall on his face because he will not be allowed to fail by the Republicans and just like anyone else with their hand on the brass ring he will not want to let go.  He is being intensely advised and solid members of the Deep State are filling his administration.  They will assure that things do not go to far off track - from their perspective, not yours.  Trump will certainly work towards many of his campaign promises as we have surprisingly seen - but many of those policies are actually supported by the mainstream Deep State as well, they just use less inflaming words when talking about them.  Trump is anti-illegal immigrants and opposed to new immigration - they can accommodate him on these issues as long as there is some modifications to their needs.  And they will get them as Trump is foremost a negotiator and never intended not to do that.  He is for a big drop in corporate taxes - big surprise there ha ha - and they LOVE that idea and will run that through the system as soon as they can.  What's not to like there?  He wants to push American jobs and less free trade and he has some support there as well, but it is more nuanced as it depends on who's industry it effects and how.  No one should cry over the killing of the TPP trade deal as it was poison for US citizens.  NAFTA is out of date and certainly should be reworked.  But what serves Trump here is gaining back some jobs and the real and open attempt to gain back more.  This, in political terms, is already working for him.  If he can maintain momentum on this issue (and immigration) alone he will be a strong candidate for reelection in 2020.  And the Supreme Court.  This is not a little issue and Trump has again delivered on his promises and produced another Scalia.  And there is a good chance he will get to deliver another one down the road. This is a huge victory for them.  Do not think that the Republicans don't desperately want to win in both 2018 and 2020.  If the above is working they will assist in making it a big political win for them and live with Trump - especially if their working hard to modify his rough edges bears fruit.  They may not like him all that much but don't ever forget that HE DELIVERED and saved them from wandering in the wilderness.  Absolutely everyone thought that Clinton was going to walk all over them and they might lose the Senate and this would have meant another four years in purgatory.  He saved them.  And now they are presented with an opportunity to have their way for a long time if they can execute in 2018 and 2020.  And the table is set for them this time.

I think some of the outrage and amazement is that Trump, unlike any politician running for the office, has actually tried and seems to intend to keep trying to fulfill his campaign promises.  How dare he!  He actually meant what he said.  NO politician does that.  Certainly not Obama and you can bet Clinton would not have either.  But he is and he certainly is no politician - yet.  This 'sells' big time to those who voted for him.  How many times did you read during the campaign that he was just lying to voters and that he would never do any of the stuff he said.  Must taste like crap in a lot of mouths out there.

3.  I understand what you are saying and why.  But it is wishful talk.  And you need to know that and be prepared for none of that to happen.  This idea that what you believe is 'truth' and what the other side believes makes them 'deplorables' is typical human behavior.  The other side thinks the same way about you you know.  They anxiously await the day the Libtards wake up and realize that most of the things they 'believe' in are stupid nonsense.  (don't take that personally I am just making a point)  I don't expect either side to get what they desire.  In a pure sense everyone deserves an equal chance and the space to exercise their 'rights'.  It is the utopian ideal.  But it is not the reality of human relations and it never has been.  Wealth and power tend to run the show and nothing has to date been allowed to stand in the way of that (don't forget that Clinton was far more owned by the Deep State than Trump was and thus a far less likely candidate for meaningful change).  In a collapsing world with climate change and carrying capacity issues slowly overwhelming us it is very hard to even imagine a different situation coming to pass.  Isn't it?

4.  Well I don't think you need to stop 'them' you need to stop yourself from helping make it happen.  That is the point.  Don't work for something for a short term gain (getting rid of Trump because you hate him) and by doing that giving up what is left of our so called democracy and ending up in the very place you mistakenly think Trump is taking us.  If you somehow facilitate the Deep State executing some form of a coup (which they don't really want to do as the current situation is what they prefer) then you will never get back any semblance of what you think you are trying to protect by getting rid of Trump.  There is a big mistake in strategy going on here on your side of the coin.  The idea that an enemy of my enemy is my friend.  This is dead wrong in most situations.  The Deep State is not your friend even if they finally move Trump on out.  When have they ever been your friend before?  The intelligence services are not on your side here.  They are fundamentally authoritarian in nature just like the military.  It is part of their basic nature.  Given the opportunity (as Obama, Bush and B Clinton largely did) they will collect on you and know everything about you so that they can control any situation as needed.  There is no limit to this desire on their part.  Don't facilitate our drift towards authoritarian control.  It will happen in its own good time but I would like to live out my days a little more comfortably if I may.

If you want to win you have to learn from your mistakes.  It was not the Russians, it was not the stupid deplorables, it was not the racists, etc, etc that resulted in this situation.  It was incompetence on the part of those who took an easily winnable campaign and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  Dump the fools and get some leaders and make a plan and execute it.  Become an actual liberal party again.  Out populist the populist.  Take not just the poor and working class people of color but all of the poor and working class people into your arms.  The middle class will follow as they see the trend of them heading into the working class as long as the Deep State holds all the cards and makes the rules.  Trump's election did not turn on the racist whites it turned on the people who once voted for Obama voting for Trump.  Take those people away from the other side and you cannot lose.  Continue ignoring them and I expect you will find it harder and harder to win.
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1624 on: February 22, 2017, 11:10:39 AM »

I agree Terry, American politics does reek. Here in Florida in the RV park my wife and I live in, we are surrounded by Canadians, mostly from the maritimes. It's refreshing to talk to people that are not paranoid about gun control and single payer healthcare. These Canadian snowbirds cant be away from their home country for more than six months, otherwise they lose they're healthcare benefits. There are some Canadians that stay year round, but they are few and far between.


After decades in Cal. & Nevada it takes a while to realize that when you hear a loud backfire at night, or the rapid staccato of a string of firecrackers, that what you're hearing really is a backfire or a string of firecrackers ;>}


Single payer here just means no waits to see the doctor of your choice, doctors that don't treat patients differently based on what their insurance will pay for, and no worries about how to afford whatever treatment your doctor might advise.
The doctors also seem to have had better training, but that may just be my particular experience.


To get back on topic:


Canada has had it's share of politicians at least as strange as Trump. The mayor of our largest city made Trump look like Mr. Smith, (the one who went to Washington), and our most resent past Prime Minister made "W" appear positively Gorish WRT climate change.


Europeans may not fully understand our, (US & Canadian) version of democracy, where the "first past the post" wins all the apples & coming in second just means that you lost. The Canadian parliamentary system, in which a ruling coalition is legal, but has never been done, is another strange aberation.
My avatar is of me peacefully protesting proroguing parliament. When the NDP and Liberals proposed forming a coalition to oust Harper's Conservatives, Mr. Harper's response was to shut down parliament. Apparently Henry VII had been fond of this device, but more recently it had fallen out of favor.
Mr. Harper's use of the anti-democratic procedure just 13 days after parliament had been seated caused concern in some circles.


I don't see Trump as being uniquely evil, but perhaps I'm mistaken. He, or his appointees, seem as determined as Harper in Canada, or Turnbull in Australia, to undermine whatever steps their predecessors had taken to resolve our growing climate problem.
Personally I think that boat sailed when Reagan's October Surprise bore it's poisonous fruit.


Terry
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 11:45:30 AM by TerryM »

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1625 on: February 22, 2017, 12:21:07 PM »

Trump is being pushed from both left and right to get on board with the deep state's agenda and to initiate some altercation against Russia, China and Iran, either separately or as a coalition. While I can't imagine why anyone would think that this is a good idea, others disagree.


The best possible outcome of course would be that all three governments see the error of their ways, agree to whatever edicts we propose, then repay us for all the expenses we've incurred, with interest!
I don't see this as a likely eventuality.


If the three could be made to quarrel among themselves so that one or two of them joined with us, this too would be preferable to the present situation,
but it isn't much more likely than our best possible outcome.


Perhaps the whole idea is simply to stir up such fear among our allies that they spend their wealth on our exported arms. This is working to some extent, but it's predicated on our allies believing that our weapons are better than the other side's weapons, (which are also for sale), as well as the other side's continued forbearance in the face of our provocations.


It's one thing to believe that we would never be the one to start an open conflict, but entirely another to believe that all of the others will persist in showing such estimable tolerance.


If protesting against Trump fulfills some deep personal need, do so in a manner that doesn't force him into a corner WRT Russia. I won't ask that you take my word when I say that Putin acted in a humane manner in Crimea and Donetsk, but I will ask if you believe that the lives of your family, friends and neighbors are as important to you as the lives of those, half way around the world, who insist that Putin is a personal threat.


Russia has recently been losing ambassadors at an alarming rate. Putin appears to be a man with a huge capacity for internalizing whatever rage he feels. I don't believe this capacity is infinite and I don't believe that Putin will rule Russia forever.


Whoever follows him will not be so secure in the reins of power and may feel the need to prove himself to the populace.


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1626 on: February 22, 2017, 03:12:55 PM »
Forcing Trump into a confrontation with Russia is not something that anyone I know of is interested in doing, and he certainly seems pretty far from it right now.

What is frightening people is the extension of 'expedited deportation'--snatching people off the street (or wherever) and kicking them out of the country without any judicial review--from a few places along the border to the whole country.

Anyone who ICE officials thinks looks suspicious and who they say doesn't have adequate documentation with them can now be legally whisked away with no question or review from anyone.

This is terror.

No one is safe.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1627 on: February 22, 2017, 03:22:29 PM »
"The policy also expands a program that lets officials bypass due process protections such as court hearings ..."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/us/politics/dhs-immigration-trump.html?_r=0

This is how it begins and ends. Take the courts out of the equation, and there is nothing to stop ICE and other agents from whisking anyone they wish away with no recourse.

The horror is right here right now.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1628 on: February 22, 2017, 04:09:38 PM »
Scott Pruitt turned over his emails last night.  The fact that he waited till the last minute to comply with the judges order likely tells us what is to come.   This should provide some interesting morsels of unethical behavior in the coming days.....:

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/scott-pruitts-emails-with-energy-firms-turned-over
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1629 on: February 22, 2017, 04:26:41 PM »
Pruitt's scared of something and wants to spend government money for his personal protection.

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060050315

pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1630 on: February 22, 2017, 07:25:52 PM »
Forcing Trump into a confrontation with Russia is not something that anyone I know of is interested in doing, and he certainly seems pretty far from it right now.

What is frightening people is the extension of 'expedited deportation'--snatching people off the street (or wherever) and kicking them out of the country without any judicial review--from a few places along the border to the whole country.

Anyone who ICE officials thinks looks suspicious and who they say doesn't have adequate documentation with them can now be legally whisked away with no question or review from anyone.

This is terror.

No one is safe.

This is precisely the type of policy outcome that is driving the resistance and outrage towards Trump and his Executive Branch.  Inhumane, cruel, and incompatible with the majority of America's outlook.  This is just one of many.  A new version of the Muslim ban should be released shortly.  This, along with the coming immigration enforcement focus, will further fan the flames of protest. 

The GOP congress is also coming to the realization that their fiscal agenda is on life support.  It will be impossible to enact large tax cuts for the wealthy, kill Obamacare, "rebuild" an already gigantic military, and execute all of the law and order mechanisms, all of which need significant funding.  And this is before any domestic or international crisis emerges and shifts priorities.




AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1631 on: February 22, 2017, 08:14:14 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Why Populist American Leaders Love Russia".  It considers FDR as a populist president and it compares the FDR-Stalin relationship to the Trump-Putin relationship, and it see many parallels, including that US populist presidents are: (a) happy to throw Eastern Europe under the Russian bus/tank and (b) so focused on domestic issues that they may not take the necessary steps to head-off international conflicts.

http://time.com/4675399/fdr-donald-trump-russia/

Extract: "After the war, Harriman, writing in his journal, confessed, “I do not believe that I have convinced the president of the importance of a vigilant, firm policy in dealing with the political aspects in various European countries when the problems arise." He was disheartened to realize that Roosevelt “didn't care whether the countries bordering Russia became communized.

Recently, Trump hinted that he wouldn’t care if NATO fell apart. Roosevelt, the populist, intuitively understood that most Americans didn’t care about Europe’s future. We were too busy worrying about our domestic problems to think about the complicated puzzle of Europe, or to see the big picture ...”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1632 on: February 22, 2017, 08:22:15 PM »
I post the linked Alternet article entitled: "Donald Trump’s Treasury Nominee Will Make Vicious Vulture Capitalism Great Again", to remind people that Trump is not looking out for the interest of the common American but actually for Vulture Capitalists/Kleptocrats:

http://www.alternet.org/economy/donald-trumps-treasury-nominee-will-make-vicious-vulture-capitalism-great-again

Extract: "It’s still baffling that a billionaire fraudster who preyed on the financially insecure was able to present himself to the electorate as a champion of the working class, but that’s the curious political situation we find ourselves in with Donald Trump.

The going theory about what happened in the 2016 election was that it represented a backlash among the lumpenproletariat against the political and financial elites who game the system for their own benefit. By picking Mnuchin as the nation’s leading financial executive, Trump has elevated a little-known avatar of this corruption."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1633 on: February 22, 2017, 08:45:46 PM »
Quote
Extract: "It’s still baffling that a billionaire fraudster who preyed on the financially insecure was able to present himself to the electorate as a champion of the working class, but that’s the curious political situation we find ourselves in with Donald Trump.

It's not baffling at all. Just look at the Democratic Party and how Obama betrayed all those people who had voted for him, and it's quite understandable really. It's baffling that people find it baffling. Rinse and repeat.

The enemy is within
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1634 on: February 22, 2017, 10:23:22 PM »
It's not baffling at all. Just look at the Democratic Party and how Obama betrayed all those people who had voted for him, and it's quite understandable really. It's baffling that people find it baffling. Rinse and repeat.

The linked (re-posted) article provides evidence that the best way to fight government corrupt is not to elect a populist leader:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/25/anti-corruption-populists-tend-to-be-more-corrupt-report-says/

Extract: "The 2016 report pays special attention to the global rise of populism in the West. It argues that populism is caused by social inequality, which is then exploited by politicians. Taking aim at U.S. President Donald Trump by name, Transparency International notes that, while populist leaders and movements are on the rise in part in response to corruption, they will likely only exacerbate widespread corruption as it continues to seep into democratic institutions.

The Trump Organization on Tuesday said it hoped to expand hotels nationwide, now that the eponymous hotelier is in office. Also, now that he is president, Trump’s Mar-a-Lago golf club in Florida reportedly doubled its membership fees to $200,000.

And so while Trump, who ran an entire campaign referring to his opponent as “crooked,” is right to suggest that there is a link between corrupt institutions and social inequality, the answer is precisely not to elect a populist leader."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1635 on: February 22, 2017, 11:10:11 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Killer, kleptocrat, genius, spy: the many myths of Vladimir Putin".  Of the many half truths about Putin the article confirms that Putin is undeniably a kleptocrat, but it also points out that nobody cares; and indeed the second linked article entitled: "Vladimir Putin’s popularity is soaring among Republicans", indicates that Republicans actually increasingly admire Putin (I suspect they actually admire his thieving ways).

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/22/vladimir-putin-killer-genius-kleptocrat-spy-myths

&

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/21/vladimir-putin-so-hot-right-now/?utm_term=.e67ea160ab6a
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1636 on: February 22, 2017, 11:26:26 PM »
The Republicans are pro-Putin because the Democrats are anti-Putin. Blue team, red team. No questions asked.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1637 on: February 22, 2017, 11:56:20 PM »
The Republicans are pro-Putin because the Democrats are anti-Putin. Blue team, red team. No questions asked.

By this line of logic Democrats are also responsible for the GOP's climate change denial.  It seems to me that Republicans should learn to stand-up and take responsibility for their own actions.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 12:03:20 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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CraigsIsland

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1638 on: February 23, 2017, 12:06:39 AM »
The Republicans are pro-Putin because the Democrats are anti-Putin. Blue team, red team. No questions asked.

By this line of logic Democrats are also responsible for the GOP's climate change denial.  It seems to me that Republicans should learn to stand-up and take responsibility for their own actions.

The thing that gets me is that Republicans used to be champions of conservation - e.g. protection of wildlife etc. greed (oil/land) took over.

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1639 on: February 23, 2017, 01:07:33 AM »
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jan/25/blog-posting/pants-fire-george-soros-money-womens-march-protest/

Please don't repeat fake news, all. Thanks.

Quote
In this fact-check, we focus on whether Soros money went into the pockets of protesters.

There is no evidence that's true.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1640 on: February 23, 2017, 02:19:05 AM »
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jan/25/blog-posting/pants-fire-george-soros-money-womens-march-protest/

Please don't repeat fake news, all. Thanks.

Quote
In this fact-check, we focus on whether Soros money went into the pockets of protesters.

There is no evidence that's true.


Has anyone here claimed that "Soros money went into the pockets of protesters"?


If so it would be quite a departure from Soros normal methods, so I'd be quite astonished if he were to do so.
Here's a list of the larger grantees from his American foundations in 2010.
http://sorosfiles.com/soros/2012/04/2010-top-75-grantees-the-soros-american-foundations.html


I'll see if I can't relocate some articles explaining his more usual techniques if there is an interest.


Terry

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1641 on: February 23, 2017, 03:11:52 AM »
Ah, looks like I struck a nerve!

Evidence that we might be getting somewhere??

Perhaps then you could explain exactly what you meant by your (presumably snarky) statement: "The Trump protesters are an authentic manifestation of the mind of Soros."??

Are you offering to retract it?
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1642 on: February 23, 2017, 03:42:18 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “Our Miserable 21st Century“, and it references a 2016 study report entitled: “Where Have All the Workers Gone?” by Alan B. Krueger.  This work raises the prospect that Trump's joy ride is being partially/significantly fueled by 7 million opioid addicted, prime-age, unemployed men with their drugs being paid for by Medicaid so they cannot afford to look for work.  Who posting here has a practical idea of how to address this problem?

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/our-miserable-21st-century/


Extract: “In the fall of 2016, Alan Krueger, former chairman of the President’s Council of Economic Advisers, released a study that further refined the picture of the real existing opioid epidemic in America: According to his work, nearly half of all prime working-age male labor-force dropouts—an army now totaling roughly 7 million men—currently take pain medication on a daily basis.
We already knew from other sources (such as BLS “time use” surveys) that the overwhelming majority of the prime-age men in this un-working army generally don’t “do civil society” (charitable work, religious activities, volunteering), or for that matter much in the way of child care or help for others in the home either, despite the abundance of time on their hands. Their routine, instead, typically centers on watching—watching TV, DVDs, Internet, hand-held devices, etc.—and indeed watching for an average of 2,000 hours a year, as if it were a full-time job. But Krueger’s study adds a poignant and immensely sad detail to this portrait of daily life in 21st-century America: In our mind’s eye we can now picture many millions of un-working men in the prime of life, out of work and not looking for jobs, sitting in front of screens—stoned.

But how did so many millions of un-working men, whose incomes are limited, manage en masse to afford a constant supply of pain medication? Oxycontin is not cheap. As Dreamland carefully explains, one main mechanism today has been the welfare state: more specifically, Medicaid, Uncle Sam’s means-tested health-benefits program.

In 21st-century America, “dependence on government” has thus come to take on an entirely new meaning.

You may now wish to ask: What share of prime-working-age men these days are enrolled in Medicaid? According to the Census Bureau’s SIPP survey (Survey of Income and Program Participation), as of 2013, over one-fifth (21 percent) of all civilian men between 25 and 55 years of age were Medicaid beneficiaries. For prime-age people not in the labor force, the share was over half (53 percent). And for un-working Anglos (non-Hispanic white men not in the labor force) of prime working age, the share enrolled in Medicaid was 48 percent.

By the way: Of the entire un-working prime-age male Anglo population in 2013, nearly three-fifths (57 percent) were reportedly collecting disability benefits from one or more government disability program in 2013. Disability checks and means-tested benefits cannot support a lavish lifestyle. But they can offer a permanent alternative to paid employment, and for growing numbers of American men, they do.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 04:14:26 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1643 on: February 23, 2017, 04:41:53 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “Alt-right influence casts cloud over CPAC”.  Has politics turned into a "... moneymaking cult of celebrity"?


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/cpac-conservatives-milo-yiannopoulos-235251


Extract: "The onetime signature event for conservatives has been riven by charges of celebrity- and profit-seeking .

As the conservative movement has grown, the ACU has struggled to hew to conservative doctrine while simultaneously appealing to young activists and turning a profit. In doing so, some say it has suffered the fate of many conservative organizations and media outlets, transforming politics from a serious ideological endeavor into a moneymaking cult of celebrity. “
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1644 on: February 23, 2017, 06:56:05 AM »
Ah, looks like I struck a nerve!

Evidence that we might be getting somewhere??

Perhaps then you could explain exactly what you meant by your (presumably snarky) statement: "The Trump protesters are an authentic manifestation of the mind of Soros."??

Are you offering to retract it?


IIRC my statement was intended to compare Soros protesters with Koch protesters? if this quote was from some other posting please correct me.
Are you saying that you believe that the Koch brothers are known to pay "into the pockets" of their protesters and that my statement is therefor not factual?


My understanding is that both outfits are more subtle than this. Just as a few handfuls of cookies from the hand of Victoria Nuland was sufficient to keep that action on point, the $5B leading up to that action was intended to remain covert.


Snark isn't something I'm usually appreciative of, so if you feel that was my intention I certainly do apologize, if not for the snark, then for the lack of clarity that my poor phrasing allowed.


The following links to an American probe into Soros European dealings.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-21/us-lawmakers-are-probing-soros-involvement-european-politics?page=1


As mentioned up thread, my understanding is that Soros has been at these things for far longer the the brothers Koch. I assume that with the additional practice, Soros has become more of a master of the form than more recent entries into the fray. This is not intended as a statement of fact. I don't know when the Kochs or Soros began their evil ways, but I assume Soros to have been at it for a longer time.


Terry

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1645 on: February 23, 2017, 08:20:59 AM »
The Republicans are pro-Putin because the Democrats are anti-Putin. Blue team, red team. No questions asked.

By this line of logic Democrats are also responsible for the GOP's climate change denial.  It seems to me that Republicans should learn to stand-up and take responsibility for their own actions.



The thing that gets me is that Republicans used to be champions of conservation - e.g. protection of wildlife etc. greed (oil/land) took over.

Refresh my memory, when were Republicans ever champions of conservation? If such a time ever existed, it must have been previous to 1980.

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1646 on: February 23, 2017, 10:23:57 AM »
Ah, Terry, you're getting your info from conspiracy theory sites. OK. No need to explain further. Thanks.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1647 on: February 23, 2017, 11:36:18 AM »
I don't necessarily agree with this, but it's an interesting approach, and one I'd love to hear you smart commenters' take on:

https://paulgilding.com/2017/02/23/the-walking-dead-in-washington/

Quote
...on reflection, I’m glad [Trump] got elected.

How can a Trump Presidency be positive? Surely this is a major setback – to action on climate change, to addressing inequality, to human rights and global security. Doesn’t it make the world a scarier and less stable place?  In isolation, all true, but in context, not so much. The context is the key.

Trump’s election is not a trend. It should not be seen as evidence of a swing to the right, to nationalism and xenophobia etc. It is simply a symptom of the volatility inherent in the accelerating breakdown of our current economic approach and model.

What we are seeing is the last hurrah of a dying approach. A desperate attempt by the incumbents to rescue the now failing economic model that did deliver great progress for humanity but has come to the end of its road – and that road finishes at a cliff.

My first reaction is something like: Ah, another white dude happy that Trump's in office. How very precious!

But I have toyed with some of the same notions presented here. Yet ultimately I have to disagree with most of his specific points:
Quote
First, there will no-one left to blame. Extreme capitalism will be unleashed and it will not deliver. The fraud of trickle-down economics will be exposed.

For X's sake, how many times does it have to be exposed as a fraud? Reagan wasn't enough? Or Bush 1 or 2?? Disasters (by themselves) don't teach anyone any lessons. Spin and propaganda nearly always rule the day, as far as I can see.

Quote

Secondly – US climate policy will no longer matter – fossil fuels will die on the same schedule they were dying on. As I argued in my 2015 article “Fossil fuels are finished, the rest is detail”, these are fundamental trends driven by technology and markets – and no government can stop them.

Actually, government, especially aligned with some of the richest corporations in history and various billionaires, can do quite a bit to impeded technology and markets. They can just outlaw solar and wind,  or put a thousand 'regulations' in their way to strangle them. When are we going to get over this religious-like worship of the 'Power Of The Market'? (Except it's power to turn the earth and its riches into a toxic waste heap?)

Quote
Thirdly – and most importantly – is “the resistance”

Yeah, it's good to wake people up. But should we appreciate the rise of Hitler because the it gave rise to those cool French Resistance folks?

Anyway, it seems like this fairly articulate guy is following along some of the lines some folks here are exploring, so I thought I'd share it.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 11:48:36 AM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1648 on: February 23, 2017, 03:31:25 PM »
It will be interesting to see if the spring and summer weather "collude" with the "politics" against the new EPA head Scott Pruitt in the US.  If it does....it could be a "perfect storm" against Donnie and his anti climate change agenda:

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,323.msg104302.html#msg104302

Also......the extended forecast for the US is for a mild spring (warmer than normal).  April and May look much warmer than normal for much of the eastern half of the US:

https://weather.com/news/weather/news/march-may-temperature-forecast-spring-2017-the-weather-company
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 04:01:40 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1649 on: February 23, 2017, 04:04:17 PM »
The linked article is entitled: “Our Miserable 21st Century“, and it references a 2016 study report entitled: “Where Have All the Workers Gone?” by Alan B. Krueger.  This work raises the prospect that Trump's joy ride is being partially/significantly fueled by 7 million opioid addicted, prime-age, unemployed men with their drugs being paid for by Medicaid so they cannot afford to look for work.  Who posting here has a practical idea of how to address this problem?

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/our-miserable-21st-century/
Let them die. Demographic change is the second best hope for America. The white male middle class entitled snowflakes of the 1950ies economic wonder years need to go out of the way.

Or: Legalize Hemp (aka marihuana). Cannabinoids can help get rid of opioid addiction.

Sometimes I like putting people in boxes labelled by drugs:
{(alcohol/opioids/...), (hemp/LSD/...), (cocaine/meth/...), ...}

You can be sober yet still have a clear box. E.g. I would fit in the hemp box. (That's how I first got interested in this plant: people kept asking if I smoked something. But nope, a mathematician needs no psychedelic drugs...) Bill Maher is also in this box, but vice versa to me: A heavy stoner who seems very sober. Also a few creative alcoholers fit more in the hemp box.

Trumpists smell like alcohol boneheads, imho.

Quote
Extract: “... the overwhelming majority of the prime-age men in this un-working army generally don’t “do civil society” (charitable work, religious activities, volunteering), or for that matter much in the way of child care or help for others in the home either, despite the abundance of time on their hands. Their routine, instead, typically centers on watching—watching TV, DVDs, Internet, hand-held devices, etc.—and indeed watching for an average of 2,000 hours a year, as if it were a full-time job.
Allow them to smoke without hiding it. Will turn most into different weirdos: Hippies with a more creative life affirming stance.

Quote
... But how did so many millions of un-working men, whose incomes are limited, manage en masse to afford a constant supply of pain medication? Oxycontin is not cheap. As Dreamland carefully explains, one main mechanism today has been the welfare state: more specifically, Medicaid, Uncle Sam’s means-tested health-benefits program."
Fed up with dysfunctional non-solutions? Heck, why copy decades of experience of serious nations and why acknowledge serious health market economics (like Hillary desperately tried to suggest since last century...)... nope, we alcohol boneheads vote Trump!