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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1950 on: March 29, 2017, 06:00:00 PM »
It's going to take some more "marching" and lower poll numbers to push Nunez out....and bring in an independent commissions.....but it is coming.

http://shareblue.com/first-republican-finds-the-courage-and-patriotism-to-call-for-nunes-recusal/#.WNsJe3c5_lk.facebook

Walter Joes is the first Republican to break ranks.  It will require others to do so as well...
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1951 on: March 29, 2017, 07:15:27 PM »
Donnie into record territory for him.... Good work Donnie...well done.  Maybe over the next several days....he can close in on the low 30's level.  Keep in mind he will, at some point, get a bounce of a few months in duration....but I think he has more downside left in him BEFORE he bounces.

Approve:  35%

Disapprove:  59%

Spread:  (24%) negative

All 3 are new records for Donnie.....

http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx


I think that within a year.....he could start to scare Harry Truman's record of 22.  But it will take work:

1)  Keep playing as much golf at Mar-a-Lago as possible
2)  Keep making decisions (because they always turn out bad)
3)  Keep tweeting as much as possible....
4)  Keep patting himself on the back for things that everyone else has done
5)  Keep failing to take any blame for anything that goes wrong
6)  Keep being the putz that is Donald Trump

If he does those things......I think, in time.....he can break Harry Truman's record low of 22% approval.  Afterall.....Harry Truman wasn't a shithead....and Donnie is, so he has that going for him.






« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 07:25:16 PM by Buddy »
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1952 on: March 29, 2017, 08:37:05 PM »
Sally Yates may testify to the Senate committee on the Russian election tampering.  If so...that may be sometime next week:

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/donald-trump-and-devin-nunes-cant-stop-sally-yates-from-testifying-for-senate-intel-committee/2094/
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Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1953 on: March 29, 2017, 08:41:03 PM »
So whether you are from Austria or Australia you only have a few options if you are convinced both the Dems and the Republicans are equally evil.
Danger close
Boycott us, sanction us, or bomb us
Travel bans, revoke our visas, and figure out how to pay for the U.N. And NATO without us. It is of course either a Dem or a Republican , actually both, that help fund those programs. Maybe money does buy loyalty but if both branches of our government are hopelessly corrupt the entire world citizenry needs to unify against us.
 I am a Dem by the way and I don't believe the Republicans and the Dems are the same but if that is how it looks to the rest of the world I would suggest you respond in some meaningful way. I also think bombing us would be very counterproductive so you really have only monetary options.

I have started a Forum where I tell my American friends that everything they say about Trump is true, but it's really important that they realize that the main reason Trump is in power, is because of Corporate Democrat shenanigans. These neoliberals would obviously rather lose from Republicans and Trumpians than win with a true progressive like Bernie Sanders. They don't stand for anything, only for vague feel-good rhetoric that doesn't put off their corporate donors. They use the same tactics as Republicans and they take the working people for granted, without representing their best interests. It's an absolute disgrace. The neocons and neolibs are the same. There's no difference.

Now, if I can convince enough of my American friends that Trump is more of a consequence than a root cause, that it's not the Russians or the deplorables that put Trump there, but the insane tactic of putting up a candidate who was unpopular beyond belief (and with good reason!), shutting out the true progressive who actually stood for something instead of mudslinging and smearing the crazy Republican candidate (that they put in the spotlight together with their mainstream media cronies!), and losing the House, the Senate and almost every position on the federal level because the neoliberals (led by the Clintons and Obama) offer nothing but empty rhetoric, and are mostly interested in serving the interests of Wall Street, Big Pharma and the fossil fuel industry, then maybe my American friends will rally behind a real cause instead of the propaganda that is spoon-fed to them by the mainstream media, and turn this monster around (not right away, but a couple of years from now).

It's very difficult to start up a third party and Sanders clearly isn't planning on doing so (although I think he could if he wanted to), and so the Democratic Party needs to be cleaned up first and the neoliberals kicked out. Why there aren't riots after the street after Tom Perez is made head of the DNC instead of Keith Ellison, is a mystery to me.

My hope is that this is more effective than sanctioning, boycotting or bombing 'you', because there is no 'you', there is only 'us', just like the 1% aren't hampered by borders whatsoever and let their money fuck over everybody, including their own people. Russia vs USA, EU vs USA, Russia vs EU, it's all divide and conquer based on old thinking and conditioning.

This whole Russia-thing is drawing away the attention from the things that really matter. It's a circus, a spectacle to rile everybody up the wrong away and keep people of good will divided.

Sorry for bombing you with this cluster-rant. Don't boycott me.  ;)

I'll be watching some Jimmy Dore Show tonight and if I feel he explains some of the things that I just tried to, I'll post a link.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

ivica

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1954 on: March 29, 2017, 08:54:05 PM »
Needless to say, I'm with Zeug Gezeugt on this one...
Please, count me in   :)   

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1955 on: March 29, 2017, 10:38:30 PM »
I have decided to open a new thread to discuss the problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1956 on: March 29, 2017, 10:49:29 PM »
But this one fits here, from the Jimmy Dore Show, an 8 minute video called Russia Hysteria Reaches Comical Proportions (click the 'no longer available' link at the bottom if the video doesn't show up):

! No longer available
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1957 on: March 29, 2017, 11:20:32 PM »
And this last bit from another Jimmy Dore show video published today, is also about Russia and how it detracts from the real problems:

The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1958 on: March 30, 2017, 12:35:15 AM »
I guess only the Americans are duped while the citizens of the rest of the world bask in the light of Truth? Must be the water or the air...

applying the stereotype of the ignorant yank to all of us here. Cool...Thanks for the lesson...

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1959 on: March 30, 2017, 03:37:01 AM »
I guess only the Americans are duped while the citizens of the rest of the world bask in the light of Truth? Must be the water or the air...

applying the stereotype of the ignorant yank to all of us here. Cool...Thanks for the lesson...


I believe that reasonable people, with similar interests, given the same facts, will draw similar conclusions. When a subset derives a very different result, it may be reasonable to assume that the facts were presented to them in a different manner, or that a different set of facts was unveiled.


If Americans are being subjected to a far different propaganda stream than most others, it could explain the different conclusions so many seem to be arriving at.
 
Perhaps the 100's of millions of WTO monies that flowed into Clinton's charities from the pockets of Ukrainian politicians influenced the MSM, which is generally assumed to have been very pro Hillary. Perhaps it is Big Oil's aim to distract from Trump's actions against the environment.


I am sure that if most progressive Americans were subjected the facts as I understand them, their conclusions wouldn't be too far from my own. As it stands either Americans are being fed propaganda that the rest of the world isn't privy to, or the rest of the world is being manipulated.


Terry

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1960 on: March 30, 2017, 04:02:57 AM »
Quote
Perhaps the 100's of millions of WTO monies that flowed into Clinton's charities from the pockets of Ukrainian politicians influenced the MSM, which is generally assumed to have been very pro Hillary. Perhaps it is Big Oil's aim to distract from Trump's actions against the environment.

I think your are missing the Freemasons, Agenda 21. Shouldn't the world's richest people be part of the schemes too?? A few hundred million are peanuts... a few billionaires should be enough to 100% rule the world then.../sarc off (maybe...)

Discounting any possible propaganda by any other involved party much??? I guess propaganda is one-sided.

 I hope in "Big Oil" you are adding the Brits, the Dutch, Saudis and Russians....

Zeug Gezeugt

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1961 on: March 30, 2017, 04:53:09 AM »
If some people want to IGNORE the Russian interference into the US election...that is their prerogative.  Some people don't want to SEE THE TRUTH.....

Hi Buddy,

If you could point out any actual evidence of Russian interference in the US election then maybe I could go ahead and IGNORE it. Trouble is I can't find any evidence anywhere, just hearsay and people like yourself using lots of CAPS, literally and metaphorically, asserting that there's evidence... somewhere.

From the Crowngate fiasco - where the DNC apparently refused the FBI access (WTF?!?) and gave their servers over to a for profit politically affiliated corporate entity for unverified 'forensic analysis', and all they apparently find are software suites the source code of which is already available on the internet to anyone including the CIA's Umbrage Team - to Russian political donations where the hypocrisy is so blatant it's truly amazing. With your logic the Podesta brothers and most especially the Clinton Foundation should also be up on treason charges for doing what everyone else in the corrupted US political system does, which is take money from foreign sources including Russians.

P.S. Hilariously Podesta's computer account didn't even need to be hacked, and if the Russians, Chinese, British, Israelis, Australians, Germans, Moldovans, Zambians and/or the CIA/NSA/ET AL wanted access all they needed was a network connection to guess his password. Like some granpa technophobe struggling with WIN8, John Podesta’s password was ... get this ... <p@ssw0rd>!  ;D

Quote
From:eryn.sepp@gmail.com
To: john.podesta@gmail.com 
Date: 2015-02-19 00:35
Subject: 2 things 
   
Though CAP is still having issues with my email and computer, yours is good to go.   
jpodesta
p@ssw0rd
Source: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22335

P.P.S. But anyhow, if you could please point me to actual evidence of Russians tipping the election in Trump's favour that fateful election night, unfortunately aided as we now know by the Clinton campaign's idiotic Pied Piper strategy, I would be grateful.

P.P.P.S Please note hearsay in impassioned CAPS does not actually qualify as evidence, much like say truncated graphs showing a 'stall' in global temperatures accompanied by "NO GLOBAL WARMING" qualifies as irrefutable proof that generations of climate scientists are involved in a decades long wages scam.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 05:06:58 AM by Zeug Gezeugt »

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1962 on: March 30, 2017, 06:26:52 AM »

Discounting any possible propaganda by any other involved party much??? I guess propaganda is one-sided.

 I hope in "Big Oil" you are adding the Brits, the Dutch, Saudis and Russians....


Having lived in more than one country long enough to be immersed in the culture I realize that we all are living in various propaganda bubbles. The direction of the propaganda and the depth of immersion varies by region and through time.
When well done, it's almost impossible to recognize, unless you move in and out of it's influence. The most upsetting aspect to me is that even when I've understood in which direction I was being pushed, the propaganda still had an effect.
I'm not saying that America is alone in being under the effect of disinformation, only that the propaganda mix that you are being fed is different than that being fed to some of the rest of us. This disconnect is probably the source of much of our discord.
You've figured out the truth about AGW.
You can figure this out.


Terry


DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1963 on: March 30, 2017, 11:01:09 AM »

Discounting any possible propaganda by any other involved party much??? I guess propaganda is one-sided.

 I hope in "Big Oil" you are adding the Brits, the Dutch, Saudis and Russians....


Having lived in more than one country long enough to be immersed in the culture I realize that we all are living in various propaganda bubbles. The direction of the propaganda and the depth of immersion varies by region and through time.
When well done, it's almost impossible to recognize, unless you move in and out of it's influence. The most upsetting aspect to me is that even when I've understood in which direction I was being pushed, the propaganda still had an effect.
I'm not saying that America is alone in being under the effect of disinformation, only that the propaganda mix that you are being fed is different than that being fed to some of the rest of us. This disconnect is probably the source of much of our discord.
You've figured out the truth about AGW.
You can figure this out.


Terry

I agree on your perspective. Having lived almost half of my life in a southern European country, then US and Canada, I can see that most  of the local populace that have not travel abroad for more than tourism, think they are right and have the answers vs the rest of the world. Also, propaganda as you call it is local and it's extend depends on the needs and politics of the local government.  While I  Greece the anti-americanism, anti-germanism etc run high at times in correlation to the government left or right leanings. So did the propaganda follow. Most of the time you are not pushed by the propaganda itself but by the desire to fit in ( almost subconsciously) to your local environment. The same way you pick up accents in your speech.

Why I discount the existence of a Deep state and a grand coordination and multi national conspiracy is that people and nations are too greedy and self interested and at the same time on average stupid. There very few if any events in the global history that have shown otherwise.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1964 on: March 30, 2017, 01:28:25 PM »
Quote
Hi Buddy,

If you could point out any actual evidence of Russian interference in the US election then maybe I could go ahead and IGNORE it. Trouble is I can't find any evidence anywhere, just hearsay and people like yourself using lots of CAPS, literally and metaphorically, asserting that there's evidence... somewhere.

1) First....I guess my "ignore button" isn't working.  You are 1 of only 2 people on it....and somehow it is NOT ignoring you (after you didn't answer Jim's questions...I put you on ignore)....so I will answer your question until the ignore button starts working.  When someone ignores the OVERWHELMING FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES....whether it is global warming, or TrumpGate.....then there is no use in discussing with them....it would be like discussing with Sean Hannity holding an umbrella over his head in a rainstorm and telling me he isn't getting wet, therefore it must not be raining. ;)

2) Perhaps they do things differently in Australia.  Here in the states....you do an INVESTIGATION FIRST......THEN......you "lock them up".  Maybe it's just that our crooks are smarter than your crooks?  When Richard Nixon covered up the Watergate break in.....HE DIDN'T ANNOUNCE THERE WAS A BREAK IN (I know.....shocking).   They actually had to do AN INVESTIGATION FIRST FOR ALMOST 18 MONTHS.  His FIRST ACTION was to trash the press....which he continued to do the rest of his days in office.  Apparently your crooks ANNOUNCE their guilt...AND THEN YOU INVESTIGATE.  I wish our crooks were that stupid....that would make it much easier!

Here in the states....we INVESTIGATE FIRST if we see FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES THAT RAISE RED FLAGS (PUN intended).  And just like global warming....we START WITH FACTS:

A)  What are the ACTUAL TEMPERATURES over the past 100 years.......Who ACTUALLY met with Russian agents AND lied about it?  Why did Michael Flynn LIE ABOUT IT?  Why did Sessions lie about it?  Why did Manafort lie about it?  Were they trying to cover something up?  Why did Michael Flynn call the Russian Ambassador FIVE TIMES ON THE DAY OF RUSSIAN SACTIONS ANNOUNCEMENT?  Ok....maybe they just have a bromance....but my ignorant Yankee guess is there is something more to it.

B)  What were the actual ice measurements over the last 50 years.......Who ACTUALLY met with Cypriot bankers, and did those Cypriot bankers have ties to Detuche Bank (the SAME Deutche Bank that recently paid over $300 million in fines FOR LAUNDERING RUSSIAN MONEY).  Banking transactions have a bad habit of leaving TRACES.  So let's first LOOK at those traces.  Again...and I know this will shock you....Manafort DID NOT GIVE US ALL HIS BANKING TRANSACTIONS.  Does Donnie ACTUALLY HAVE $300 MILLION IN LOANS FROM DEUTCHE BANK...yes he does.

C)  What does CO2 actually do in the environment (can it be tested to actually cause warming of the atmosphere)........Much of the the "fake news" has ACTUALLY BEEN TRACED BACK to Russia (and you'll never guess who lives in Russia....Russian's....I know, shocking:).  So....can we, THROUGH INVESTIGATION.....trace that back to who encouraged/ordered those news stories from Russian sources.  I know this will be a shock to you as well.....here in the states, WHILE THE INVESTIGATIION IS ONGOING....THEY DON'T SHOW ALL THE EVIDENCE (weird isn't it...it's almost like they are actually trying to CATCH the thieves:).  But they may....from time-to-time DISCUSS some of the outcomes.  For instance THE FBI, THE NSA, THE CIA....ALL....COMING TO THE SAME CONCLUSION THAT RUSSIA WAS TRYING TO INTERFER WITH ELECTIONS IN THE US.  Again...the investigations ARE ON-GOING....so they will NOT share most of the facts until AFTER the investigation is done (we Yanks are a weird bunch aren't we?).

One could LITERALLY....write a book about all the FACTS and CIRCUMSTANCES around Russian contacts with those in the Trump campaign.  If you want to continue to ignore those....go right ahead.  Neven seems to ignore them as well and thinks its all "smoke and mirrors" and that Russia would NEVER think about interfering in elections (even though SOURCES THROUGHOUT EUROPE CLAIM EXACTLY THAT).

This will be the last time I discuss this issue with you.  I have Sean Hannity on the phone and he is STILL claiming that it is NOT raining outside while he is holding his umbrella over his head because he is not getting wet. ;)  That Sean.....he is ONE CRAZY YANK isn't he?

 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1965 on: March 30, 2017, 01:48:03 PM »
Buddy. Russian Capital (unsavory and not)involvement with Cyprus and their banks is a well known fact. They were deeply affected by the bank haircut to avoid state bankruptcy.

Quote
Oct 6, 2011 (updated:  Oct 7, 2011)

Languages: Français     
Cash-strapped Cyprus yesterday (5 October) secured a massive financial loan from Russia, a country with serious financial interests on the island. Cyprus, whose president Demetris Christofias is the only Communist to lead an EU member and eurozone country, will hold the bloc's presidency in the second half of 2012.

Cyprus' Council of Ministers approved an agreement with the Russian Federation for a €2.5 billion loan with a yield of 4.5%, government spokesman Stephanos Stephanou announced, according to the Famagusta Gazette.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1966 on: March 30, 2017, 02:05:35 PM »
Here is an interesting article.  It is NOT directly about Trump/Russia...but what it DOES SHOW, is that PRESSURE WORKS.  North Carolina had stubbornly held to keeping the legislation that was "anti LGBT".  Well....they finally caved in.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-repeal-hb2-transgender-bathroom_us_58dc7e43e4b0e6ac7092454a?pbacujcd6wckmaemi&

You will see the same thing play out with (1) Trump Russiagate, and (2) Trump anti global warming and anti EPA actions.  Mother nature will also be helping on the second one.

PRESSURE....PRESSURE....PRESSURE.  Where possible....economic pressure works best (as in the North Carolina issue).  Over the next year....you will continue to see pressure from many different sources put on Trump......and others who ignore global warming.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1967 on: March 30, 2017, 04:26:08 PM »
PRESSURE.....

GE CEO Immelt knocks Trump on climate

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-climate-change-immelt-236671

The two issues of (1) climate change/global warming, and (2) Russian involvement with the US elections AND the Trump team.......will continue to work against Trump over the coming 18 months......
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1968 on: March 30, 2017, 05:44:50 PM »
For those of you into FACTS and connecting dots.....here is some "light reading" for tonight or this coming weekend:

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/download-the-palmer-report-on-trump-russia/2093/
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1969 on: March 30, 2017, 07:05:26 PM »
And....for those that USED to be on the Trump team or are STILL ON the Trump team, I would NOT be too thrilled with the following article.  If two of the primary folks involved in "George Washington Bridge Scandal" during Governor Chris Cristy's time in office got 18 months in prison....and 24 months in prison.....for "messing with an on/off ramp on a bridge".....

......I wonder how much time the Trump folks are going to do for MESSING WITH NATIONAL ELECTIONS.....

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/29/521937027/bridgegate-former-christie-ally-bill-baroni-sentenced-to-2-years

Ring.....Ring....Ring...

"Hello.... this is Bob at Cheatum, Greedy, and Stickum Attorneys at law."

"Yea....Bob....this is one of the Trump campaign team employees......I think I have a problem."

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1970 on: March 30, 2017, 07:14:43 PM »
I agree on your perspective. Having lived almost half of my life in a southern European country, then US and Canada, I can see that most  of the local populace that have not travel abroad for more than tourism, think they are right and have the answers vs the rest of the world. Also, propaganda as you call it is local and it's extend depends on the needs and politics of the local government.  While I  Greece the anti-americanism, anti-germanism etc run high at times in correlation to the government left or right leanings. So did the propaganda follow. Most of the time you are not pushed by the propaganda itself but by the desire to fit in ( almost subconsciously) to your local environment. The same way you pick up accents in your speech.

Why I discount the existence of a Deep state and a grand coordination and multi national conspiracy is that people and nations are too greedy and self interested and at the same time on average stupid. There very few if any events in the global history that have shown otherwise.


My apologies for hectoring one who is far better traveled than I.


I don't know if you were in the States when Freedom Fries became the rage, or when Hitler was reborn as Saddam Hussein, or when billions of marching Nicaraguans were about to swamp our southern borders if Ortega wasn't stopped.
The recent buildup of Putin as a mad genius who cares for nothing but his own stolen billion$ is at least as strong a myth as has been used as a precursor to, (undeclared) war in the past.


"The Diabolical Plan to take over the Leadership of the Free World"tm 2017, has apparently succeeded. Russia has subverted the will of the American people, and only by focusing on this international criminal conspiracy will we be able to stop Trump. If we concentrate on Putin, while ignoring Pence and Pruitt, we'll develop an issue that will drive Trump from power, place Pence in the presidency and allow Pruitt a free hand.
If the Trump/Putin connection can never be proven the investigation will none the less hobble Trump, his Southern Wall will not be built, his dropping of Russian sanctions won't happen, and his no fly lists will be tied up in the courts. Since his anti-science, pro-CO2 agenda is already up and running, it's best to ignore this and concentrate on the winning strategy of tying Trump and his minions to Putin.
/sarc)


Terry

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1971 on: March 30, 2017, 07:23:27 PM »
I did NOT realize that the "smoke and mirror" business had gone global.  There must be quite a market for smoke and mirrors.....

https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/us-senator-warns-of-russian-interference-in-french-election/
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DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1972 on: March 30, 2017, 08:45:14 PM »
I agree on your perspective. Having lived almost half of my life in a southern European country, then US and Canada, I can see that most  of the local populace that have not travel abroad for more than tourism, think they are right and have the answers vs the rest of the world. Also, propaganda as you call it is local and it's extend depends on the needs and politics of the local government.  While I  Greece the anti-americanism, anti-germanism etc run high at times in correlation to the government left or right leanings. So did the propaganda follow. Most of the time you are not pushed by the propaganda itself but by the desire to fit in ( almost subconsciously) to your local environment. The same way you pick up accents in your speech.

Why I discount the existence of a Deep state and a grand coordination and multi national conspiracy is that people and nations are too greedy and self interested and at the same time on average stupid. There very few if any events in the global history that have shown otherwise.


My apologies for hectoring one who is far better traveled than I.


I don't know if you were in the States when Freedom Fries became the rage, or when Hitler was reborn as Saddam Hussein, or when billions of marching Nicaraguans were about to swamp our southern borders if Ortega wasn't stopped.
The recent buildup of Putin as a mad genius who cares for nothing but his own stolen billion$ is at least as strong a myth as has been used as a precursor to, (undeclared) war in the past.


"The Diabolical Plan to take over the Leadership of the Free World"tm 2017, has apparently succeeded. Russia has subverted the will of the American people, and only by focusing on this international criminal conspiracy will we be able to stop Trump. If we concentrate on Putin, while ignoring Pence and Pruitt, we'll develop an issue that will drive Trump from power, place Pence in the presidency and allow Pruitt a free hand.
If the Trump/Putin connection can never be proven the investigation will none the less hobble Trump, his Southern Wall will not be built, his dropping of Russian sanctions won't happen, and his no fly lists will be tied up in the courts. Since his anti-science, pro-CO2 agenda is already up and running, it's best to ignore this and concentrate on the winning strategy of tying Trump and his minions to Putin.
/sarc)


Terry

I don't mind. :) its all in good spirit. 

During the first Iraq war and the Yugoslavian war, I was in Greece. Came to US a few years before Sept 11th.

The Putin saga is a natural response to what the tea party and Fox News had sowed.


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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1973 on: March 31, 2017, 12:02:48 AM »
A link to commentary by Charles Pierce at Esquire, "The Russian Answers are Coming"

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a54229/russian-hearings-nunes/

Meanwhile, down at the other end of The Avenue, the Senate committee heard from several witnesses, including this Clinton Watts cat. He's a Fellow in cyber-security at George Washington University and a very plain-spoken fellow. Watts told the committee there were two ways to follow the trail leading back to Russia from the election just passed.
------------
"Follow the trail of dead Russians. There have been more dead Russians in the past three months that are tied to this investigation. They are dropping dead, even in Western countries."
------------
Well, all right, then. Watts then went even beyond that when asked by James Lankford, Republican of Oklahoma, why Vladimir Putin's efforts in this area seem to have been more effective than they have been in previous years. Watts replied:

"I think this answer is very simple and is what no one is really saying in this room. The reason active measures have worked in this US election is because the commander-in-chief has used Russian active measures at times against his opponents."
----------------
Later, Watts talked about how the Russian cybernauts have been known to plant false or incriminating information on the people they wanted to ratfck, although he also said this has been happening mostly in Europe, which I guess should be reassuring, but which really isn't.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1974 on: March 31, 2017, 12:06:50 AM »
Link to commentary from Sarah Posner, appearing in the Washington Post, "Today's Russia hearing actually revealed something new and important"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/03/30/todays-russia-hearings-actually-revealed-something-new-and-important/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.8929fc74dd69
-------------
According to Watts (who was backed up by other witnesses who testified), the Russians have been using “active measures,” which are built on propaganda tactics that date back to Soviet times, to spread disinformation, fear, confusion, and chaos in multiple democratic countries, including the United States.

These efforts include the use of visible Kremlin propaganda outlets, such as RT and Sputnik, to publish false news stories and conspiracy theories. Russian actors then deploy social media bots to spread these false stories far and wide. In the U.S., Watts said, the goal has been to provoke the Trump into repeating them or retweeting them to his millions of followers.

In a moment that stunned the hearing room, Watts flatly stated that the president himself has become a cog in such Russian measures. When asked by Oklahoma Republican James Lankford, who appeared visibly dismayed, why, if Russians have long used these methods, they finally worked in this election cycle, Watts’ answer was extraordinary.

“I think this answer is very simple and is one no one is really saying in this room,” he said. Part of the reason, he went on, “is the commander in chief has used Russian active measures at times against his opponents.”

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1975 on: March 31, 2017, 12:15:38 AM »
The linked NTY article highlights how efforts by the White House and GOP leaders to distract from and obstruct investigations into the Trump team's collusion with Russian govt officials continues to unravel

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/30/us/politics/devin-nunes-intelligence-reports.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
--------------------
The revelation that White House officials assisted in the disclosure of the intelligence reports — which Mr. Nunes then discussed with President Trump — is likely to fuel criticism that the intelligence chairman has been too eager to do the bidding of the Trump administration while his committee is supposed to be conducting an independent investigation of Russia’s meddling in the last presidential election.
-------------------
The chaotic situation prompted the leaders of the Senate intelligence committee, which is running its own investigation, to state bluntly on Wednesday that their work had nothing to do with the House inquiry. And television news programs have been dominated by arguments about whether the incidental intelligence gathering of Mr. Trump and his associates was the real issue, or simply a distraction from the Russia investigations.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1976 on: March 31, 2017, 12:30:04 AM »
In sum, Congressional investigations, at least on the Senate side, will be picking up momentum in the coming weeks and months regarding Russia's interference in the US 2016 election, and the Trump team's suspected collusion.  There will also be activities concurrently to address what we are observing from the Executive Branch:  efforts to cover up and obstruct the inquiries and investigations. 

While it is premature to state likely findings, the very nature of the Russia allegations and the investigations will continue to cast a very large shadow over everything the White House says and tries to do until this process is complete.



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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1977 on: March 31, 2017, 12:54:48 AM »

Zeug Gezeugt

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1978 on: March 31, 2017, 03:10:33 AM »
"I think this answer is very simple and is what no one is really saying in this room. The reason active measures have worked in this US election is because the commander-in-chief has used Russian active measures at times against his opponents."

Mike Flynn Offers to Testify in Exchange for Immunity

Must be propaganda...

Here in the states....we INVESTIGATE FIRST if we see FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES THAT RAISE RED FLAGS (PUN intended).  And just like global warming....we START WITH FACTS:

Hi Buddy et al,

So ... shoot first ask questions later? Your 'facts' would strictly speaking seem to be more opinion, queries, rumour and hearsay, with as far as I can see no actual evidentiary basis. Smoke and mirrors as they say. But where's there's smoke there may be a fire, right?

And yes, the senate investigations will presumably unearth actual treasonous facts as they go along, although so far they've mostly been digging a hole for themselves, most especially where political donations are concerned. And what happened to the Crowngate 'evidence' of hacking? It seems to have gone quiet. How was it again that the Russians influenced the election? Via their media corporations and/or cyber hacking operations? Direct manipulation of electronic voting systems wasn't it? At least at one point.

Anywho, hopefully once Trump has been impeached and hung for treason we can all get back to business as usual!

All the best from the southern hemisphere, thinking of y'all!

ZG

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1979 on: March 31, 2017, 03:43:02 AM »

 How was it again that the Russians influenced the election? Via their media corporations and/or cyber hacking operations? Direct manipulation of electronic voting systems wasn't it? At least at one point.

ZG

Russia hired 1,000 people to create anti-Clinton 'fake news' in key US states during election, Trump-Russia hearings leader reveals

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russian-trolls-hilary-clinton-fake-news-election-democrat-mark-warner-intelligence-committee-a7657641.html

Extract
Quote
The Kremlin paid an army of more than 1,000 people to create fake anti-Hillary Clinton news stories targeting key swing states, the leading Democrat on the committee looking into alleged Russian interference in the US election has said.

Basically he is hacking democracy.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1980 on: March 31, 2017, 04:17:45 AM »
Tick.....tick......tick.....tick..... :-[
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1982 on: March 31, 2017, 07:31:41 AM »
Mike Flynn Offers to Testify in Exchange for Immunity

Must be propaganda...

Definitely "FAKE" news!


Just because WSJ is owned by Rupert Murdoch doesn't mean everything they post is fake. Or does it?


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1983 on: March 31, 2017, 09:22:19 AM »
Excellent. Let us see what Flynn has to say once given immunity.

Results might be between

a) He says nothing. Trump does the howler monkey thing, opposition claims it was no big deal anyway.
b) He implicates trump. Who does the howler monkey thing, opposition acclaim flynn as jesus.

Place your bets. My prediction is that Trump does the howler monkey thing.

sidd


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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1984 on: March 31, 2017, 12:48:26 PM »
Mike Flynn Offers to Testify in Exchange for Immunity

Must be propaganda...

Definitely "FAKE" news!


Just because WSJ is owned by Rupert Murdoch doesn't mean everything they post is fake. Or does it?


Terry

I think he was sarcastic...

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1985 on: March 31, 2017, 01:15:57 PM »
So.....where are we NOW?

1)  Michael Flynn has offered to flip.  No surprise....it was only a question of WHO would offer to flip FIRST.  But, if there is/are someone (or better yet...multiple someone's) at a LOWER LEVEL than Flynn....then the FBI and the other parties involved (senate and house Intelligence Committees) will NOT accept Flynn's offer.  They will only accept his offer IF they need Flynn to flip in order to get big fish Donnie.  Yummmmmmmmm, "fileted Trump".....that sounds good doesn't it?

2) It looks like both Trump AND Pence are toast.  I won't go into all the specifics on Pence...but he has been dishonest...and he is now history as well.

3)  So now we have a "lame duck" (sorry Oregon) president AND vice president.  And Donnie has got to be thinking that he REALLY DOESN'T LIKE STRIPES.  Especially black stripes.  So one of Donnie's moves could be to have the best odds he can of having a Spearker Of The House that will pardon him.  I'm not so sure that Ryan would do that.  I wouldn't if I were him.  That might be the end of his political career.  And if Donnie doesn't think Ryan would pardon him.....then Donnie wants to get rid of Ryan NOW.  And Donnie probably wants to get rid of Renice Preibus NOW....because Preibus and Ryan are good friends.....and Bannon hates both of them anyway.  Now...Donnie has another reason to hate Ryan.  Now....the president doesn't pick the speaker of the house.....the house does.  But if Trump is convinced that Ryan wouldn't pardon him.....he's going to do everything in his power to get Ryan out....and that probably means getting Preibus out as well.  I would be watching what happens to Preibus and Ryan over the coming days/weeks.

The other thing they could do....is for Trump to resign FIRST, knowing that Pence could then pardon him.  And then Pence resign LATER ON IN THE PROCESS.....knowing all along that he was going to be toast anyway, and hoping that either Ryan or whoever was the new speaker of the house (and NOW PRESIDENT) would pardon Pence.  Just something to watch.  Almost anything is possible.....

4)  The "net" that is catching everyone.....will likely be even much bigger than I described a week or so ago when I listed off 20 or so names.  This is going to be a "BIGLY NET."

And we are going to have a nonpartisan commission that will have to do its work over the next 12 - 18 months.  But Donnie isn't going to make it to the end of that commission.  We are in "uncharted waters" again.....and Donnie may not make it a week....or a month.....or to the end of his first 100 days.  Tough to call that one....  Donnie has to get things in order before he leaves office....  He could try and "stick it out" like Richard Nixon as well.  And that could take us into next year. 

5)  I expect things to "pick up speed" in the coming days and weeks.  Now that Flynn has offered to flip.....folks will be calling up "Bob" at "Cheetum, Greedy, and Stickum" and they will REALLY be getting some business now.  People will be wanting to cut deals ASAP.

6)  When someone gets evicted from their home.....there are two outcomes on either side of the scale:  (a)  there is the person who had bad luck....and misfortune.....and tragically gets evicted and then that person/family picks themselves up off the floor moves forward in a positive fashion.  Then...on the other end of the spectrum.....there is the schmuck who trashes the house on his way out because he/they figured they had everything in life that was good coming to them and screw everyone else.....if he is suffering, he's going to make some other people suffer as well.  Any guesses where Donnie figures to be on that scale?

THAT.....is where the US now finds itself.  It has a president who is getting evicted....and what will this person do before he is "out of the house" (literally).  You can bet that the US Senate/FBI/CIA are going to be watching him LIKE A HAWK.  What actions will he be taking in the coming days/weeks/months?  Do we REALLY want this person doing anything that effects things long term.....like say...nominating a supreme court judge?  The Gorsuch vote is now tied to Trump...and this increases the likelihood that Gorsuch will not get the 60 votes needed.  We'll see....that one could be close.  And if Gorsuch doesn't get the 60 votes.....will Mitch McConnel initiate the "nuclear option"?  A week or two ago I would have said definitely YES.  But now with the potential Flynn flip.....that isn't such a sure thing anymore.  This one should be interesting to watch.

A lot of moving parts.....history in the making.  Soak it in......
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1986 on: March 31, 2017, 01:25:15 PM »
I like to cook.....especially since my girlfriend DOESN'T, and I find eating to be important.  And there is a new spice rack that has some really great spices below.... ;D

Who wants to be Sean Spicer today?  Anyone?  The bullshit will be flowing today....

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Zeug Gezeugt

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1987 on: March 31, 2017, 01:38:29 PM »
Russia hired 1,000 people to create anti-Clinton 'fake news' in key US states during election, Trump-Russia hearings leader reveals

Precisely my point Archimid, "at least some reports  – and we’ve got to get to the bottom of this ... It’s been reported to me, and we’ve got to find this out, whether they were able to affect specific areas".

There is no evidence here only hearsay but are you seriously repeating it as if it's an established fact? It sounds like a South Park satire to me but if you want to believe an army of Slavic trolls actually tipped the election specifically in the critical electorates that Trump won, without any evidence apart from some dweeb politician spreading yet another ludicrous meme, then that's fine too.

But you do realize the climate denial community works in more or less the same way don't you? Lord Monckton's ludicrous evidence free ramblings being a political hack's case in point.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1988 on: March 31, 2017, 01:42:24 PM »
Quote
Follow the trail of dead Russians. There have been more dead Russians in the past three months that are tied to this investigation. They are dropping dead, even in Western countries.

I really like this argument. It sounds so exciting and 007-esque, even though it doesn't make sense. Who is killing these Russians? And why? Can anyone provide any links to evidence that substantiates this? Maybe a graph of dead Russians with a sudden spike in the trend?
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1989 on: March 31, 2017, 01:54:48 PM »
Quote
Follow the trail of dead Russians. There have been more dead Russians in the past three months that are tied to this investigation. They are dropping dead, even in Western countries.

I really like this argument. It sounds so exciting and 007-esque, even though it doesn't make sense. Who is killing these Russians? And why? Can anyone provide any links to evidence that substantiates this? Maybe a graph of dead Russians with a sudden spike in the trend?

That is a direct quote from Clinton Watts the last couple of weeks. And I am adding that for extra info. I don't insinuate anything.

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1990 on: March 31, 2017, 01:55:34 PM »
Last night on MSNBC (probably on Rachel Maddow) someone talked about "the trail of dead Russians".  (I was only half listening so I don't know what was said.)
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1991 on: March 31, 2017, 03:46:40 PM »
Personally, I think that this is another instance where someone just throws out some conjecture and then the media etc run with it. I don't think there's a trail of dead Russians. But let's say it's true, why would there be a trail of dead Russians? And who killed them?

PS Politically speaking, I find the GOP/Trump healthcare fail much more interesting than the Russia-squirrel thing that may still backfire.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1992 on: March 31, 2017, 04:24:28 PM »
So ... shoot first ask questions later? Your 'facts' would strictly speaking seem to be more opinion, queries, rumour and hearsay, with as far as I can see no actual evidentiary basis.

You're aware, I assume, that this is an investigation in its earliest stages, are you not? And that much of the investigating and unearthing is going on behind closed doors? That unless you are, say, a mamber of the US National Security apparatus, you almost certainly wouldn't be privy at this point to more than "opinion, queries, rumour and hearsay"? That's how these things work.

But where's there's smoke there may be a fire, right?

To quote Wes from Footloose: "Usually works like that."

And yes, the senate investigations will presumably unearth actual treasonous facts as they go along...

They might turn out to be the case; it might not. But while some may want to declare "there's nothing to see; let's all move along" at this point, such weighty matters certainly deserve to be looked into. I mean, we had multiple investigations into the Benghazi non-scandal; multiple investigations into the IRS non-scandal; multiple investigations into the "Climategate' non-scandal; multiple investigations into the Planned Parenthood non-scandal. Hell, we had multiple investigations into Bill Clinton having an affair with a staff member. So certainly an invitation into the functions of the highest levels of the US government extended to a major, non-friendly foreign power with a vested interest in destroying the West should get more than just a cursory ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Ya' know?

Now, perhaps you're right, and this will wind up being just a huge time-wasting nothingburger slathered in Russian dressing. Maybe Flynn's offer to testify if granted immunity means nothing, and his secretly working for Russia and Turkey while being at the top of the US's security apparatus was entirely innocent; maybe Manafort's extraordinarily deep financial ties with Russians and Russia's government effected not one bit his job as Trump's campaign manager; maybe the widespread Russian disinformation campaign directed against Clinton had absolutely no effect whatsoever on voters' election-day decisionmaking; maybe the dozens of highly-placed professionals with profound knowledge of Russia and cybersecurity and politics are simply delusional, and nothing is going on.

But why shouldn't we at least have a look?

How was it again that the Russians influenced the election? Via their media corporations and/or cyber hacking operations? Direct manipulation of electronic voting systems wasn't it? At least at one point.

To repeat: you're aware that this is an investigation in its earliest stages, are you not? This isn't about voting machines; it's about some Americans working directly in cahoots with a foreign government to subvert democracy. And since this isn't a one-hour TV episode of Murder She Wrote or Matlock, it's going to take more than a few weeks to get to the bottom.

Anyhow, hopefully once Trump has been impeached and hung for treason we can all get back to business as usual!

Well, no. If Trump's guilty of being nothing more than the petty, vindictive, impetuous, greedy, arrogant, dimwitted, bigoted blowhard we all know him to be, he should be neither impeached nor hung. But if he and/or his campaign did indeed collude with that aforementioned foreign power to ensure he was elected, I'm among those who think that sort of thing should be dealt with, and harshly.

Anyway, some responses here and in other threads make me wonder why it is that some think battles can't be fought on multiple fronts simultaneously. Just because we want to know whether Russia is electing America's leaders doesn't mean we don't also care about and can't do anything about spreading corporatism, or the evergreen Republican wet dream of denying healthcare to tens of millions, or the stunning weakness of the Democratic party, or the Trump regime's severe anti-science stance on just about everything, or any of the other thousand things that need addressed. But he's been in office just 10 weeks. 10 weeks. We still have almost 200 weeks (or, god help us, 400 weeks) left to fight about the rest.

At any rate, for those saying the Russian thing is overblown and meant to distract, what course of action would you suggest? Our options seem to be: a) pretend that the increasing amounts of smoke we're seeing aren't proof of anything, and just go happily about our merry way; b) do as some here suggest and just consider high-level Russian meddling in our electoral process one of those things we'll have to deal with from now on, and turn our attention to all the other areas that need fixing; or c) look at that high-level Russian meddling in our electoral process as detrimental to the future function of our nation, see how deep and how high it reaches, and do something about it, while also realizing that we can multitask, meaning that we can also pay close attention to all the other areas that need fixing.

I'm going with 'C'. But what say you?

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1993 on: March 31, 2017, 09:07:40 PM »
Last night on MSNBC (probably on Rachel Maddow) someone talked about "the trail of dead Russians".  (I was only half listening so I don't know what was said.)

The linked article is entitled: "Five months, eight prominent Russians dead", just follow the trail of dead bodies back to Putin:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/24/europe/dead-russians/

Extract: "The brazen daytime slaying of a Russian politician outside a Ukrainian hotel this week brings to eight the number of high-profile Russians who have died over the past five months since the US presidential election on November 8."
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1994 on: March 31, 2017, 11:28:57 PM »
Okay, so let's assume that there really is a trail of assassinated Russians (more than usual, right) and that this has to do with the alleged Russian meddling in the US elections. Who assassinated/s them and why? And have the people who hacked Merkel's phone been assassinated as well?

! No longer available

On the level of intelligence and espionage, etc, there is no clear-cut 'Us vs Them' or 'American vs Russians'. It's all about money, power and weapons, and we the people only get to hear a fraction of the truth after years of investigative journalism. If we're lucky.

So, why are we blindly assuming that behind this whole narrative which has 'suddenly' been presented to us, there isn't some sort of ulterior motive and an attempt to rile up the masses to gain some end that probably isn't even in the interest of the masses, but of some faction of kleptocrats and the military-industrial complex? Probably because they can't control crazy sociopath Trump and want their puppet back in the White House.

Maybe it's just me, but when all of the mainstream media keeps pushing some stuff that they have received from intelligence agencies, blah blah blah, I get incredibly suspicious. There is something incredibly fishy about all this. It reminds me of the poor babies dropped on hospital floors in Kuwait, or intelligence agencies assuring us there were WMDs in Iraq.

The intelligence community is pushing this because they can't control Trump.
The Republicans (some) are pushing this because they hate Trump.
The Corporate Democrats are pushing it because they don't want to own their huge election fail, be reminded of it, and least of all, lose their place at the corporate trough.
The media meekly follows, as they always do.

How happy we must all be when Trump has been got rid of undemocratically and everything returns to normal again, ie business-as-usual, where we go back to bombing the Middle East, surveilling everybody on the planet, filling the pockets of bankers (and their masters), and burning up lots of fossil fuels in collusion with the Russians.

Never mind how all the people who voted for Trump will feel, not having had the opportunity to see him fail so miserably and betray their trust.

I don't trust what's going on and either way, I think it's the wrong way to go about things.

But have at it. Look at the Russian Squirrel, the biggest in modern history. Be careful what you wish for.
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budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1995 on: March 31, 2017, 11:37:13 PM »
Mike Flynn Offers to Testify in Exchange for Immunity

Must be propaganda...

Definitely "FAKE" news!


Just because WSJ is owned by Rupert Murdoch doesn't mean everything they post is fake. Or does it?


Terry

I think he was sarcastic...

yes, I was.

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1996 on: April 01, 2017, 12:28:15 AM »
And one last point: Whatever the exact truth is, I believe that all of this is happening because the extremely rich need to get richer, and richer, and richer, and richer. How can we ever hope to solve anything if we allow for this insatiable need to get richer, and richer, and richer, and richer?
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1997 on: April 01, 2017, 01:01:39 AM »
And one last point: Whatever the exact truth is, I believe that all of this is happening because the extremely rich need to get richer, and richer, and richer, and richer. How can we ever hope to solve anything if we allow for this insatiable need to get richer, and richer, and richer, and richer?
+1

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1998 on: April 01, 2017, 06:48:23 AM »
"How happy we must all be when Trump has been got rid of undemocratically and everything returns to normal again, ie business-as-usual, where we go back to bombing the Middle East, surveilling everybody on the planet, filling the pockets of bankers (and their masters), and burning up lots of fossil fuels in collusion with the Russians."

Wait a minnit. Nothing has changed. Everything is normal.

1) bombing middle east, check, freeer hand for drones
2) surveilling everybody, check, no change in practise
3) filling pockets of bankers, check, look at bank balance sheets
4) burning fossil fuels, check, EPA rulemaking gutted

The difficulty is that the wrong kleptocrat is Emperor. For my sins, I have to go into the big smoke that is the east coast  too often, and  I have noted that Trump was hated by the rich and the intelligentsia for decades now, ever since he was a brash young tax cheat back in the 80's. They cant stand him and he knows it. But they cant control him and thats their problem. The wrong guys might make some money. So sad.

sidd


Zeug Gezeugt

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #1999 on: April 01, 2017, 10:08:16 AM »
Hi Jim,

thanks for taking my views seriously enough to respond in kind. Here's my 2c worth.

You're aware, I assume, that this is an investigation in its earliest stages, are you not? And that much of the investigating and unearthing is going on behind closed doors? That unless you are, say, a mamber of the US National Security apparatus, you almost certainly wouldn't be privy at this point to more than "opinion, queries, rumour and hearsay"? That's how these things work.
So it's an investigation based on no evidence that we're allowed to see as yet, apart from "opinion, queries, rumour and hearsay", and we just have to trust the unelected officials of the US intelligence services? But what if both Clapper and Morell have already outright denied any evidence of Trump's collusion with the Russians? Why investigate?

From Clapper:

Quote
Clapper was also asked on "Meet the Press" if he had any evidence that the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russian government while the Kremlin was working to influence the election.

"Not to my knowledge," Clapper said, based on the information he had before his time in the position ended. "We did not include anything in our report … that had any reflect of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. There was no evidence of that included in our report," he said. "We had no evidence of such collusion."
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/former-dni-james-clapper-i-can-deny-wiretap-trump-tower-n729261

And Morell:

Quote
On the question of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians here, there is smoke, but there is no fire, at all ... There's no little campfire, there's no little candle, there's no spark. And there's a lot of people looking for it.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/clinton-ally-says-smoke-no-fire-no-russia-trump-collusion-n734176

Comey, whose intervention in the last days of the election along with Clinton's idiotic Pied Piper strategy basically gave Trump the presidency, says there's an FBI investigation underway ... while the CIA has already said there's nothing to investigate. From the outside it certainly looks as if there is just smoke feeding your outrage, and it's coming from one side of the US political circus in a deliberate attempt to sabotage and unseat a democratically elected president, which is why this also looks like just another US regime change operation ... except this time it's operating on the US domestic audience against its own government! Democracy be damned!!

Our options seem to be:
a) pretend that the increasing amounts of smoke we're seeing aren't proof of anything, and just go happily about our merry way;
b) do as some here suggest and just consider high-level Russian meddling in our electoral process one of those things we'll have to deal with from now on, and turn our attention to all the other areas that need fixing; or
c) look at that high-level Russian meddling in our electoral process as detrimental to the future function of our nation, see how deep and how high it reaches, and do something about it, while also realizing that we can multitask, meaning that we can also pay close attention to all the other areas that need fixing.

I'm going with 'C'. But what say you?
How about d) root out the rogue elements within the US intelligence and political elites that outrageously dare to use Russophobic war propaganda, McCarthyism rebooted for the 21st C, to usurp US democratic processes and depose a democratically elected president?

I'd definitely go with 'D', your democracy is in danger of becoming an outright plutocracy without any democratic pretence whatsoever, and your plutocrats already have far too much power!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 10:23:47 AM by Zeug Gezeugt »