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Csnavywx

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2400 on: May 17, 2017, 01:30:09 AM »
Really tired of the army of "unnamed" and anonymous sources used for news articles nowadays. We often get contradictions at a later date with little to no clarification on what's really going on.

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2401 on: May 17, 2017, 02:55:51 AM »
Many were tired of Deep Throat.... Many are tired of whistleblowers. That is the danger with fake news. We brand all unnamed sources as fake news. Instead we should be tired of stupidity and malice...

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2402 on: May 17, 2017, 06:44:07 AM »
Many were tired of Deep Throat.... Many are tired of whistleblowers. That is the danger with fake news. We brand all unnamed sources as fake news. Instead we should be tired of stupidity and malice...


Ramen !!

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2403 on: May 17, 2017, 04:43:18 PM »
Really tired of the army of "unnamed" and anonymous sources used for news articles nowadays. We often get contradictions at a later date with little to no clarification on what's really going on.

You may be correct that Anonymous is behind a good number of the leaks against The Donald.
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gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2404 on: May 17, 2017, 05:06:21 PM »
I think that this is where the USA and its have allies have got to.

NYTIMES
Can Donald Trump Be Trusted With State Secrets?
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
 President Trump at the White House on Tuesday.
He has the legal right to blurt out classified information, but his ignorance, vanity and foolishness endanger the nation.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2405 on: May 18, 2017, 02:03:21 AM »
Ten days!  A brief review.

The Trump Presidency Falls Apart
After an extraordinary 10 days, the tenure of the chief executive may have deteriorated beyond his ability to repair it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/all-the-kings-men/526980/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2406 on: May 18, 2017, 11:12:42 AM »
Ten days!  A brief review.

The Trump Presidency Falls Apart
After an extraordinary 10 days, the tenure of the chief executive may have deteriorated beyond his ability to repair it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/all-the-kings-men/526980/
Apparently anyone with AdBlocker is persona non grata at The Atlantic.


That said.
Unrepairable Deteriorated Tenure certainly sounds like a very serious ailment. I sincerely hope it's not found to be so contagious that it spreads beyond the natural containment areas of party lines.


Best wishes to all that might be infected or affected, (except for the Trump family of course_


 :-X

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2407 on: May 20, 2017, 03:58:05 PM »
Trump is trying to run the government like his business. That's why he's failing.
Quote
His most recent misstep, firing FBI Director James Comey a few months after reportedly asking him to drop the investigation into his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, is a perfect example.

CEOs don't persuade people; they dictate. And they fire those who refuse to carry out their demands. Even more importantly, a CEO of a privately held company (like the Trump organization) operates like a king over his personal fiefdom. His employees work for him; they have no higher obligation to shareholders.

This is how Trump has governed — demanding do-or-die votes in Congress, threatening legislators who don't toe the line, and bullying a FBI director into abandoning an inconvenient investigation.

You can behave like this when you're the chief executive of a company with your name on it. But it doesn't work and is wildly inappropriate when you're the president of the United States.
...
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/18/trump-is-trying-to-run-the-government-like-his-business-thats-why-hes-failing.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2408 on: May 20, 2017, 08:06:12 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Donald Trump Committed Another Impeachable Offense This Week", and it makes it clear that as impeachment is a political process and as the Congressional GOP leadership is lacking in the moral compass department, that it is up to the US voters to step-up and offer resistance to this criminal administration:

https://www.thenation.com/article/donald-trump-committed-another-impeachable-offense-this-week/

Extract: "On Wednesday, US forces carried out more unauthorized airstrikes on pro-government forces in Syria. Though the Constitution explicitly states that the legislative branch, not the executive, has the power to initiate new military actions, Trump has steered the United States deeper into the Syrian conflict.

Of course, impeachment is a political process rather than a legal one. It requires a level of respect for the Constitution that is rarely displayed by leaders of the House or the Senate—especially ones like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. But political processes evolve when popular pressure rises—and it is worth noting that public support for impeachment is higher among voters than on Capitol Hill."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2409 on: May 21, 2017, 06:42:01 AM »
The linked article draws some parallels between Andrew Johnson's presidency and Trump's. President Johnson came within one vote in the Senate of being convicted of impeachable offenses.

Although I would love to see Trump either remove himself from office or be removed through impeachment, I think proceedings should not be rushed. It would be better to wait until the evidence is beyond doubt (if possible), otherwise conviction of impeachable offenses in the Senate could fail.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/20/andrew-johnson-impeachment-donald-trump-215166

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2410 on: May 21, 2017, 09:59:32 PM »
The linked article is entitled: “Trump appoints hate group figures to voter fraud commission”.  To me the voter suppression implications of this action illustrates how Trump is working to make himself 'bulletproof' from GOP support for impeachment proceedings (as impeachment is a political act):

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/21/trump-appoints-hate-group-figures-to-voter-fraud-commission_partner/

Extract: “Trump’s action was viewed by civil rights groups as a vehicle to suppress the votes of minorities and the poor.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2411 on: May 22, 2017, 03:52:48 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "WATCH: Dutch film “The Dubious Friends of Donald Trump”: Connecting the dots on Trump’s ties with the Russian mob".  Watch and learn about some of Trump's mob connections linked to the former USSR.

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/21/watch-dutch-film-the-dubious-friends-of-donald-trump-connecting-the-dots-on-trumps-ties-with-the-russian-mob/

Extract: "Documentary makers explore how Russia could have damning intelligence about Trump, and Putin could try to use it."
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 05:04:32 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2412 on: May 22, 2017, 02:20:52 PM »
Quote
Although I would love to see Trump either remove himself from office or be removed through impeachment, I think proceedings should not be rushed. It would be better to wait until the evidence is beyond doubt (if possible), otherwise conviction of impeachable offenses in the Senate could fail.

It will all be driven by Donnie's poll numbers.  Here are Tricky Dick's numbers below.  Keep in mind....Nixon was re-elected in November 1972....and the Watergate break-in was in June of 1972 during his re-election campaign.  His approval numbers would eventually drop to 25% by the time he resigned....

It is a PROCESS....and it takes time for human minds to change.  We don't like to admit we are wrong.  As Mark Twain said:  "It is much easier to fool someone.....than to convince them that they have been fooled."

If Donnie's approval numbers get low enough.....then Republicans will leave him.  If they don't....then not enough will leave him.  Simple as that.  You can see that by July or August of his second term.....Nixon was already down to 30%.  For Trump....that would be THIS JULY/AUGUST (two months from now).


FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2413 on: May 22, 2017, 02:33:30 PM »
The two large issues of RussiaGate and global warming CONTINUE to "move towards each other" and "conspire" to upend Donnie's boat.

As RussiaGate continues to grab headlines that move against him......that "pesky global warming thing" continues to raise its ugly head.....as well as Donnie's policies to IGNORE IT.  THAT....will play right into the hands of those that want to impeach him based on RussiaGate.....because it moves the public's perception of Donnie AGAINST HIM AND HIS POLICIES.  Those two things do NOT operate in a vacuum.
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2414 on: May 22, 2017, 06:44:32 PM »
CBO (Congressional Budget Office) scores on Trumpcare come out on this Wednesday...I believe.  That could either provide Donnie with a slap on the back....OR.....a grab in the crotch.  I guess we will find out Wednesday..... ;)
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2415 on: May 23, 2017, 03:41:12 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “White House Moves To Block Disclosure Of Ethics Waivers For Trump Appointees”.  It looks like the WH is engaged in an all out assault against ethics in governance.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/22/529502156/white-house-moves-to-block-disclosure-of-ethics-waivers-for-trump-appointees

Extract: “The White House is blocking a move by the Office of Government Ethics to compile waivers of federal ethics rules that have been granted to officials hired into the administration from corporations and lobbying firms.

At the same time, an anti-Trump legal group has filed suit to make those waivers public.

The Trump administration and OGE are fighting on other fronts, as well:
— OGE earlier this month announced a new certification document for Cabinet secretaries and other top-ranking appointees to show they are fulfilling the ethics agreements they signed before being confirmed by the Senate. Ethics agreements typically commit a nominee to avoid ethics violations through a blind trust, divestiture, recusal or similar action.
The document must be signed by the official. As with tax returns and other federal documents, false statements run the risk of penalties. There was no previous oversight of compliance.

— The White House has raised a conflict-of-interest question to challenge newly appointed special counsel Robert Mueller, who will oversee the FBI's investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election.
...

— Last winter, Shaub used Twitter to exhort Trump into putting his hundreds of corporations into a blind trust. Trump instead put them into a revocable trust, where he can draw money from his businesses whenever he wants.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2416 on: May 23, 2017, 04:21:52 AM »
The two articles discuss Trump's budgetary assault on governance:

The first linked article is entitled: “Trump's first budget: Trillions in cuts”

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/22/news/economy/trump-budget/index.html

&

The second linked article is entitled: “Trump is picking the wrong battle on health care”

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/opinions/trump-medicaid-cuts-opinion-zelizer/index.html
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2417 on: May 25, 2017, 05:25:51 AM »
Although this article is somewhat off-topic for this thread, it sort of ties in with ASLR's last post. In the linked article, it is reported that Montana Congressional candidate Greg Gianforte (R) body slammed a reporter who was asking him about the Republican health plan, the AHCA.

I imagine a lot of Republican Congressmen have met unhappy constituents at town meetings recently about this issue.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/24/media/montana-gop-greg-gianforte/index.html

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2418 on: May 25, 2017, 06:10:08 PM »
It is amazing just how "out of synch" and out of touch that Donnie and his band of idiots are on some things:

1) He has loaded his cabinet with fossil fuel guys....just as renewables are "taking off" around the world.  His buddies have some real work to do if they are going to try and "save" fossil fuels.  THAT....is NOT a "winnable game".

The two leading democratic countries in the world now......Germany and Britain.....have moved ahead QUICKLY with renewables....and it is spreading.   

2)   The US has made BIG STRIDES in pushing down the rate of "out of wedlock" births.  And just as all that work was done over the last 8 years......work that any real FISCAL CONSERVATIVE LIKE ME WOULD LOVE......it is being unwound by Donnie.   By having fewer kids in single parent homes.....that reduces the amount that both the feds and the states payout in providing healthcare, food, and other things needed.

But what Donnie wants to do in his new budget....is to take away funding for things like Planned Parenthood.......AND......at the same time decrease the safety net.  So his budget...is a DOUBLE WHAMMY.

3)  Betsy Devos will turn back education to the 1950's......and ENCOURAGE discrimination in private schools......while continuing to provide federal funding to them.  She is a REAL POS.

Donnie is going to cause a lot of people to get a lot of exercise over the next year or more.  Of course......MARCHING IS GOOD EXERCISE. ;)
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pileus

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2419 on: May 25, 2017, 07:40:25 PM »
Dear Europe,

Apologies for having the Ugly American in Chief desecrate your soils this week.  Most Americans hang their head in shame daily at this abomination.

sidd

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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2421 on: May 25, 2017, 08:52:37 PM »
By the way Europe......how did you like your first "up close look" at Donnie?

Would love to hear what "the take" is on Donnie?  Not just because I can't stand the person....but I am curious to hear what Europe's true take on Donnie is.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

ritter

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2422 on: May 25, 2017, 10:03:42 PM »

magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2423 on: May 25, 2017, 11:46:53 PM »
By the way Europe......how did you like your first "up close look" at Donnie?

Would love to hear what "the take" is on Donnie?  Not just because I can't stand the person....but I am curious to hear what Europe's true take on Donnie is.

location where he speaks has no impact on the outcome, the best i heard today was something like:

intellectual as well as political misfit while misfit is nicely put :-)

just want to say that it's his voters who are responsible, after all it was all in the open and that is my real concern. bad guys and pedants have always existed in majority but that people freely choose on of those is a danger and it's the second time after GWB, only that this time a majority shares this opinion while when GWB was elected i was quite a lonely wulf LOL, at least in canada where i was living at that time.

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2424 on: May 26, 2017, 12:09:10 AM »
I personally think that perceptions in the US, in a large part created by mainstream media, influence the way European media reports, and this then shapes the opinions of most people. People who lean left, are appalled that such a coarse and obvious liar can become the president of the biggest superpower in the world. People who lean more to the right, are more accepting because they've lost faith in the establishment with all its political correct policies, but do see that he's a clown.

Personally I don't care about personality, I care more about what people do and how they defend that. I'd rather have a coarse pig than a hypocrite with a pretty face and pretty words. Unfortunately Trump is a hypocrite to boot.

I don't agree that it's the fault of voters that he's in power. It's because the elites don't offer them anything better, and people decided not to settle for a hypocrite again, but to form a massive middle finger.
The enemy is within
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ritter

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2425 on: May 26, 2017, 01:32:53 AM »
I personally think that perceptions in the US, in a large part created by mainstream media, influence the way European media reports, and this then shapes the opinions of most people. People who lean left, are appalled that such a coarse and obvious liar can become the president of the biggest superpower in the world. People who lean more to the right, are more accepting because they've lost faith in the establishment with all its political correct policies, but do see that he's a clown.

Personally I don't care about personality, I care more about what people do and how they defend that. I'd rather have a coarse pig than a hypocrite with a pretty face and pretty words. Unfortunately Trump is a hypocrite to boot.

I don't agree that it's the fault of voters that he's in power. It's because the elites don't offer them anything better, and people decided not to settle for a hypocrite again, but to form a massive middle finger.

Agreed. Sanders is fairly course and not the pretty face. He's had my support and vote. Hopefully, he's not a hypocrite. Too bad he's getting long in the tooth. We need some new honest candidates.


Archimid

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2426 on: May 26, 2017, 03:01:16 AM »
and people decided not to settle for a hypocrite again, but to form a massive middle finger.

Pretty much.
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sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2427 on: May 26, 2017, 07:22:27 AM »
Bob Woodward of Watergate fame thinks that Trump will serve his full term:

" ... odds are, he's probably going to be president for a full term, four years ... "

https://www.axios.com/woodward-smug-media-on-trump-crusade-2420259230.html

Dunno if i agree. The guy might get bored and quit, he's got the attention span of a cat on a severe catnip buzz.

sidd

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2428 on: May 26, 2017, 08:38:35 AM »
Don't worry, he'll do everything he can to make it interesting for himself (inflating his ego even more), keeping the cameras rolling and the ratings soaring. I'm sure the media actually love him. MSNBC and Rachel Maddow are breaking all kinds of records. They never would have if Sanders or even Clinton had become president.

And don't forget that Trump is going to get massively rich off of this (especially if he wasn't as rich as he claims). It's a US presidential tradition.

If nothing comes off the Russiagate stuff, which would be a massive and embarrassing fail, even worse than Clinton's candidacy and campaign, he could even get a second term. But that would also depend on the economy, which seems to be very open to bubbles again. But most of all it depends on the groundswell of grassroots activism that will hopefully result in an overtake of the Democratic Party or the founding of a new party.

Trump could be the catharsis that the USA needs. That's the silver lining I see from a European perspective (heavily influenced by US culture, as the whole world is).
The enemy is within
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2429 on: May 26, 2017, 10:03:23 AM »
and people decided not to settle for a hypocrite again, but to form a massive middle finger.

Pretty much.

Which is a good argument for maintaining civil behavior, rather than given the middle finger to everyone, including those who care about climate change and 'overshoot'.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2430 on: May 26, 2017, 10:33:40 AM »
Which is a good argument for maintaining civil behavior, rather than given the middle finger to everyone, including those who care about climate change and 'overshoot'.

I don't think that middle finger was aimed at those who care for such things (for most people), except if they identify with the establishment/elites/oligarchs/0.1%. But why would anyone want to identify with the richest of rich?

Let's put a cap on wealth, so we at least don't have to worry about being played by a dependent media from all sides.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2431 on: May 26, 2017, 12:08:30 PM »
I don't think that middle finger was aimed at those who care for such things (for most people), except if they identify with the establishment/elites/oligarchs/0.1%. But why would anyone want to identify with the richest of rich?

I think that both Tump's Tax plan and Trumpcare indicate that your assumption is wrong and/or naïve, as highlighted by Bernie's questioning of Trump's minion in yesterday's budget hearings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/sanders-argues-with-mulvaney-in-budget-hearing/2017/05/25/56deab50-4163-11e7-b29f-f40ffced2ddb_video.html

Edit: I note that Trump's base still supports him after he has put forward his elitist tax and health car plans (not to mention his anti-science efforts to drain the swamp of intellectuals).
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 12:29:08 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2432 on: May 26, 2017, 02:06:26 PM »
I don't think that middle finger was aimed at those who care for such things (for most people), except if they identify with the establishment/elites/oligarchs/0.1%. But why would anyone want to identify with the richest of rich?

I think that both Tump's Tax plan and Trumpcare indicate that your assumption is wrong and/or naïve, as highlighted by Bernie's questioning of Trump's minion in yesterday's budget hearings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/sanders-argues-with-mulvaney-in-budget-hearing/2017/05/25/56deab50-4163-11e7-b29f-f40ffced2ddb_video.html

Edit: I note that Trump's base still supports him after he has put forward his elitist tax and health car plans (not to mention his anti-science efforts to drain the swamp of intellectuals).
The bolded has been boilerplate Republican/Conservative policy since Ronald Reagan & Maggie Thatcher. These aren't Trump's visions, these are the visions of the party whose banner he carries. When Trump voices his support for these he's not reaching out towards some new Trumpian Utopia, but rather leaning back and down to pet the heads of the proles who carried him to victory.


Trump's victory, and Saunders popularity, can be seen as the end of the old political order, or as the end of big money winning every federal election in the US of A.


Attempts at bringing down Trump, or marginalizing Saunders supporters in California, could be seen as Big Money Politics grasping for relevancy in a world that has digitally neutered them. Grievously wounded they howl, tear up the furniture, and lash out in all directions in a last ditch effort to convince themselves, and their hired help, that they are indispensable, that none can run, and win, and rule, without their support.


They will win a few rounds, but despite the cacophonous screechings that drown out rational discourse, their time is over.


Terry


Jim Pettit

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2433 on: May 26, 2017, 02:42:02 PM »
Attempts at bringing down Trump...could be seen as Big Money Politics grasping for relevancy in a world that has digitally neutered them.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Though you'd have to believe that "Big Money" didn't have anything to do with Trump's "victory"--quite a stretch.

Anyway, I think attempts to bring down Trump are better seen as tens of millions of Americans appalled and horrified at what's happened to our country since January 20, and the things yet to come, and fighting back with every fiber of our being. It could be seen as tens of millions becoming "woke", and realizing now that sitting back and letting Putin and the Koch Brothers and ALEC choose our politicians and policies wasn't and isn't a good idea. It could be seen as people exercising their electoral muscles, and rising up to remind TPTB that a majority of Americans did not choose Trump, that a majority of American voters did not choose Trump, that a majority of those who actually casts ballots on November 9 did not choose Trump.


TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2434 on: May 26, 2017, 03:38:47 PM »
Attempts at bringing down Trump...could be seen as Big Money Politics grasping for relevancy in a world that has digitally neutered them.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Though you'd have to believe that "Big Money" didn't have anything to do with Trump's "victory"--quite a stretch.

Anyway, I think attempts to bring down Trump are better seen as tens of millions of Americans appalled and horrified at what's happened to our country since January 20, and the things yet to come, and fighting back with every fiber of our being. It could be seen as tens of millions becoming "woke", and realizing now that sitting back and letting Putin and the Koch Brothers and ALEC choose our politicians and policies wasn't and isn't a good idea. It could be seen as people exercising their electoral muscles, and rising up to remind TPTB that a majority of Americans did not choose Trump, that a majority of American voters did not choose Trump, that a majority of those who actually casts ballots on November 9 did not choose Trump.


Jim
I don't have the figures in front of me but I believe that Hillary had far larger corporate donations than Donald. This is what I was basing my argument on.
The Kochs and ALEC are a blight on the nation. I don't believe even Canada has much influence on American presidential elections, and they are America's traditional trading partner. I do know that both the Republican and Democratic parties attempt to sway Canadian elections, but this hasn't been news for centuries.
If it's good for the goose - and all that.
The Electoral College is, and always has been an affront to democracy. Time to rewrite the constitution?
Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2435 on: May 26, 2017, 03:40:40 PM »
Neven wrote:
Quote
I don't think that middle finger was aimed at those who care for such things (for most people), except if they identify with the establishment/elites/oligarchs/0.1%. But why would anyone want to identify with the richest of rich?

I'm not sure you realize the depth of lunacy that is the average American psyche. Most Americans think they are one lottery ticket or one lucky break away from being 'the richest of the rich' themselves. So their counter-question would be, "Why would I want to be against the super-rich person that I am about to become?"

That's my take on it any way, but I'm pretty sure there's some poling data out there to back me up. But no time to track it down right now.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2436 on: May 26, 2017, 03:55:12 PM »
Who will follow Trump?


If Big Money Politics is able to limit Trump to a single term, it will have won a battle, not the war.


The war is over controlling enough votes to assure victory to whatever candidate BMP supports.
When Bush the Younger was their candidate the Republican Party didn't put up more than token resistance to his nomination. When he then lost to Gore, BMP required that the final vote be decided by an already thoroughly discredited Supreme Court. This was not the result that BMP was seeking, but since their man ascended to the top post the loss was largely ignored.


Hillary was the BMP's choice in 2016. Enough votes were bought that she won the popular vote, but lost the election. Jeff Bush had patiently waited his turn, but people were turning away from candidates that had BMP's blessing and because of the internet were able to organize behind Trump and Saunders. Candidates that in previous elections couldn't have purchased enough air time to be noticed.


Hillary's team I believe, saw Donald as a beatable opponent. Their MSM connections gave him free air time through the primaries, attempting to assure that they would end up fighting the weakest opponent that the GOP might field. The Donald undoubtedly was aware of this, and may even have willingly played the part of the spoiler. He had after all backed the Clintons in previous elections.


To everyone's surprise and shock Trump won. And Saunders, had he been the Democrats standard bearer, might have done better than the BMP's anointed one.


Enough history.
If Trump's successor, in 1 yr, 3 yrs or 7 yrs is a Big Money Candidate, I'll be mildly surprised. Much will depend on how Big Money plays it's present hand. If they continue to shut out progressives in California & hammer away at the Russians on the federal level I think they will be digging their own graves.
Just as having the Supreme Court decide Bush-Gore left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, so beating the war drums, rerunning the 50's witch hunts, and resorting to underhanded methods to keep progressives from control in California will empower everyone fighting against the elite.
Whether the next President is left or right, reasonable or nuts may be of less importance to the voters than whether they perceive him to be a tool of Big Business or a product of the internet age.


sidd had linked to an article that described our present status as being in an interregnum, akin to a period of political chaos. Exiting this chaotic period could lead in any number of directions. Personally I favor the peace candidate that recognizes that global cooperation and domestic leadership are necessary if we are going to survive AGW. He or she also needs to get GINI back on track and champion single payer healthcare.  :)


Terry

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2437 on: May 26, 2017, 04:25:27 PM »
Neven wrote:
Quote
I don't think that middle finger was aimed at those who care for such things (for most people), except if they identify with the establishment/elites/oligarchs/0.1%. But why would anyone want to identify with the richest of rich?

I'm not sure you realize the depth of lunacy that is the average American psyche. Most Americans think they are one lottery ticket or one lucky break away from being 'the richest of the rich' themselves. So their counter-question would be, "Why would I want to be against the super-rich person that I am about to become?"

That's my take on it any way, but I'm pretty sure there's some poling data out there to back me up. But no time to track it down right now.


I think (hope) that it's only the very bottom rung that harbor such delusions. Those that I associated with in the South Western States were more or less resigned to their fate. Few recognized how poor and poorly educated they were when compared to those in other countries, but very few believed that they would personally break out.


The book/movie "The Hurricane" tells a side story of a poor, ill educated waif who wanted to be a lawyer. He was illiterate, but thought he could pull it off somehow. He was rescued from the ghetto by some Canadian hippies, taken to Ontario, given an education, and did become a lawyer, but you have much better odds of winning the lottery and catching leprosy than finding this kind of help.


Even in Las Vegas very few gamble to win, they gamble to prove to themselves and others just how undeserving they are. Very sad to watch, very difficult to empathize with those who encourage them.


Terry


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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2438 on: May 26, 2017, 07:22:24 PM »
Neven wrote:
Quote
I don't think that middle finger was aimed at those who care for such things (for most people), except if they identify with the establishment/elites/oligarchs/0.1%. But why would anyone want to identify with the richest of rich?

I'm not sure you realize the depth of lunacy that is the average American psyche. Most Americans think they are one lottery ticket or one lucky break away from being 'the richest of the rich' themselves. So their counter-question would be, "Why would I want to be against the super-rich person that I am about to become?"

That's my take on it any way, but I'm pretty sure there's some poling data out there to back me up. But no time to track it down right now.

My take is that Trump's supporters are tribalistic, and they prefer to live their lives by following the lead of an autocratic strongman in order to pillage booty from the neighboring tribe.  They are hoping that Trump will be their savior.

"Why evangelicals love Donald Trump"

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21722172-secret-lies-prosperity-gospel-why-evangelicals-love-donald-trump

See also:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/05/26/daily-202-gianforte-s-victory-after-assaulting-reporter-reflects-rising-tribalism-in-american-politics/59275c2ae9b69b2fb981dba2/

 
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2439 on: May 26, 2017, 11:12:43 PM »
In the linked article, former Speaker of the House, John Boehner (R), states that with few exceptions the Trump presidency has been a complete disaster.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-boehner-donald-trump_us_59284e05e4b0065b20b63c80?50q&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009


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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2440 on: May 27, 2017, 01:21:38 PM »
I guess this is sort of redundant after all else has been said....    ....but I am ashamed I have a so-called president like this. To all outside the USA, I apologize. The Ugly American has struck.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/05/25/trumps-behavior-at-nato-is-a-national-embarrassment/?tid=pm_opinions_pop&utm_term=.583d32b1baed

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2441 on: May 27, 2017, 01:53:18 PM »
Trump has always been a disgrace.  He is now showing himself to be the buffoon he has always been.  The interesting part to me.....will be to see who in the Senate and House.....and Cabinet, will be taken down with him.  And yes.....I fully expect that FOX will be pulled into the investigation (working with Donnie to coverup).


FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2442 on: May 27, 2017, 04:54:23 PM »
Quote
The interesting part to me.....will be to see who in the Senate and House.....and Cabinet, will be taken down with him.

Well, sure. But I am always trying to think good thoughts about people, I keep waiting for more principled Republicans, those who put country first (maybe I should say humanity first?) to step forward and repudiate this individual. So far, the only vocal outcries are from people like David Frum and Jennifer Rubin who (gosh) don't actually hold office right now.

Meanwhile, again I know this is redundant, but I have to say it anyway: I want to extend and amplify my previous note of apology. The spectacle of a "President" of the United States who hectors the NATO heads of state, who makes extraordinarily ignorant statements about NATO defense spending, who pushes aside the Prime Minister of a NATO country for a photo op....    ....this is personally shameful to me.

In 1945 every country in Europe had been bombed to smithereens. America stood up the Marshall Plan and got NATO going...   ....was this out of altruism? NO. It was out of a long term view of self-interest. It turned out well, right? (Though some may question the wisdom of pushing NATO right on to the borders of Russia.) At any rate, long-term self-interest continues to argue for America to support the European Union and NATO.

So, (I could go on) I will simply close by focusing my apology on this forum to citizens of NATO countries. I am really completely sorry and I believe at this time that we at least have a Secretary of Defense who will do everything he can to limit the damage done by president Nincompoop.

What am I doing? I go door to door during voting season. I give gosh maybe even a thousand dollars per season to candidates. I will Resist. Can't think of anything else right now.

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2443 on: May 27, 2017, 07:54:19 PM »
The linked article is entitled: “G7 talks: Trump isolated over Paris climate change deal”.
 Trump thinks that he can extort the civilized over climate change; just like a mafia boss would extort any target.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40069636

Extract: “The final communique issued at the G7 summit in Italy said the US "is in the process of reviewing its policies on climate change and on the Paris Agreement and thus is not in a position to join the consensus on these topics".

However, the other G7 leaders pledged to "reaffirm their strong commitment to swiftly implement the Paris Agreement".

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the discussion on climate change had been "very unsatisfactory", adding "we have a situation of six against one".”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2444 on: May 27, 2017, 08:01:19 PM »
The linked Palmer Report indicates that Congressman Ted Lieu feels that Trump is also acting like the mafia towards NATO:

“Congressman Ted Lieu slams Donald Trump for acting like the “mafia” toward NATO”

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/lieu-nato-mafia/3098/
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2445 on: May 28, 2017, 03:49:21 PM »
While officially Trump has indicated that he will publically announce next week whether the US will quit the Paris Pact; however, if true, the linked article indicates that privately Trump has already decided to exist the Paris agreement.  If this is true, then it could be taken as Trump (& his base supporters) giving the middle finger to the G7 (& other nations in the pact).

"Scoop: Trump tells confidants U.S. will quit Paris climate deal"

https://www.axios.com/scoop-trump-tells-confidants-he-plans-to-leave-paris-climate-deal-2424446776.html

Extract: "President Trump has privately told multiple people, including EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt, that he plans to leave the Paris agreement on climate change, according to three sources with direct knowledge.

Pulling out of Paris is the biggest thing Trump could to do unravel Obama's climate policies. It also sends a stark and combative signal to the rest of the world that working with other nations on climate change isn't a priority to the Trump administration."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2446 on: May 28, 2017, 05:19:10 PM »
In what will be seen as the worst president EVER....and the worst cabinet EVER...the race is now on to see if Donnie can last longer than Nixon.  He has 15 months to do so...can he string it out that long? :o
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2447 on: May 28, 2017, 07:53:10 PM »
In what will be seen as the worst president EVER....and the worst cabinet EVER...the race is now on to see if Donnie can last longer than Nixon.  He has 15 months to do so...can he string it out that long? :o


WoW !!
GREAT !!


The only question now is who President Pence will choose as his running mate. I'm hoping for Jed Bush - a good family man - smarter than his brother - A Strong Man, Willing to Lead The Country. Viva Zapata Oil!


The options are really open ended. Sarah who understands the Russians she sees out her window, McCain who has one more war left in him, Scott Pruitt who will put a smokestack in every village and a strip mine in every park!


DOWN WITH TRUMP


FOOL'S SPEED AHEAD




DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES


DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 08:49:15 PM by TerryM »

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2448 on: May 28, 2017, 11:26:05 PM »
“Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit”.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40078183

Extract: “Europe can no longer "completely depend" on the US and UK following the election of President Trump and Brexit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel says.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2449 on: May 29, 2017, 08:36:32 PM »
Paul Krugman's op/ed piece entitled: “Trump’s Energy, Low and Dirty”, indicates that we are all playing Russian roulette (w.r.t. climate change) by allowing Trump to remain in office (i.e. without the House starting impeachment proceedings):

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/opinion/trump-g-7-summit-energy.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fpaul-krugman&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=1

Extract: “So am I suggesting that the world’s most powerful leader might put the whole planet’s future at risk so that he can keep telling politically convenient lies, which will soon be exposed in any case? Yes. If you find this implausible, you must not have been reading the news the past few months.

Now, maybe Trump won’t really pull the plug on Paris; or maybe he’ll be gone from the scene before the damage is irreversible. But there’s a real possibility that last week was a pivotal moment in human history, the moment when an irresponsible leader sent the whole world careening off to hell in a golf cart.”

See also:

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/paul-krugman-donald-trump-might-have-just-doomed-human-civilization-once-and-all

&

http://www.alternet.org/
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson