Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: The Russiagate conspiracy theory  (Read 1119898 times)

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1000 on: August 05, 2017, 04:35:00 PM »
RussiaGate has always been about collusion and money laundering.  Donnie's laundering of Russian money (some of it likely Russian mob money) goes back over a decade.  And Mueller is going to tie those things together in a package that will take DonnieWorld down.

Donnie has NEVER done well in business.  Without money from laundering...he would have been toast long ago.  And when this is all wrapped up...it is going to take Donnie and family down....as well as many others in collateral damage.  As I stated many months ago...this will make WaterGate seem like child's play.  You haven't seen the fireworks yet....it's just getting warmed up.

I see that Donnie has his co-conspirators at FOX News working overtime:  Jeneane Pirro and Sean Hannity.  The last thing those two want is the investigation to broaden and expose them for conspiring to obstruct justice.

Meanwhile one of Donnie's other FOX soldiers....Eric Bolling...is busy emailing pictures of his "junk" around the office at FOX.  Classy move Eric....pervert Donnie will be proud of his little soldier.  What is it about the water at FOX?

Yes.....FOX News...."most trusted by perverts".  FOX had decided to leave off the last two words of their new tag line.  I thought I would take it upon myself to add those back in where they belong.😎
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1001 on: August 05, 2017, 08:28:44 PM »
I have heard Hersh speak before, the audio sounds exactly like him.

Just to be sure, i listened to it again. Hersh makes the following allegations

1) FBI has found correspondence between Rich and wikileaks
2) In these, Rich asked for money and first sent samples of the emails before sharing the corpus via dropbox
3) Russian involvement in the leaks was faked by Brennan and Rogers

sidd
and these allegations turned out baseless. Hersh is rehashing the Faux News story. What is the context of the tape? (No, I won't dig after it. This is a distraction from digging after the real stuff (albeit a very paradigmatic one, incl. appeal to paranoid ideation, and hordes of internet trolls and their fish and tweeting sock puppets...)).

I dug up a transcript of the audio:
http://redpilledworld.blogspot.com/2017/08/seymour-hersh-audio-transcript.html
All we need to know of what Hersh says is:
"All I know comes off an FBI report."
He says the report was read to him over the phone by a contact, who he considers reliable.

Note, the major MSM "unnamed sources" that the alt-right have dismissed have been put forward with at least one corroborating source.  Not this one.  For all we know Hersh's unnamed source is utterly unreliable.  For all we know, that "FBI report" was a forgery.  Note that false, forged reports about Russiagate have been provided to MSM news sources already.

Brennan, Clapper, and Rogers came up in the audio purely as speculation by Hersh, nothing more.

If the "FBI report" is genuine and supports Rich being the source of WikiLeaks material, then Mueller and his grand jury have it.

In all, there's a lot less here than meets the eye.  It's entirely plausible that Rich's contacts with WikiLeaks, if they happened at all, where not the same e-mails that WikiLeaks published.  It's even plausible that the e-mails that Rich might have had were provided to him by a Russian source, and not from his own work at the DNC.  Using Rich as a conduit to WikiLeaks would convince WikiLeaks that Russia had nothing to do with it.

Or, it's plausible that the "FBI report" was a fabrication, and Hersh has nothing.  Or that Hersh just made up the whole thing, and he has no contact at all.

There's even less to all this than the wildest speculation would support.  The DNC email leak to Wikileaks isn't the only (or even most important) form of Russian interference.  There are solid reports of hacking into local elections commissions--not fo fix the vote count, but to disrupt voter registration records in strategic Democratic districts.   And then there's the well-documented "fake news" reports as the election neared, and related "bot" attacks.  These are more than sufficient to justify sanctions.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1002 on: August 05, 2017, 09:43:35 PM »
And the sanctions are more than sufficient than justify a total ban on US meddling with the political processes of other sovereign states, especially if they are done to benefit the armaments and fossil fuel industries. No more training and financing of terrorists, ever again.

This whole investigation into Trump's relations with Russia (mainly corruption, still no proof of 'collusion') should also set a bar for future presidents. And for those of the past too, if it were up to me. The Bushes, the Clintons, Obama, all of them should be tried for war crimes and collusion with Wall Street and the military industrial complex. US relationships with Saudi Arabia and Israel shouldn't be allowed to continue in the current form either.

I don't care about Trump. He's an ugly, boorish megalomaniac, an absolute disgrace. But whichever way he is ousted, the same rules should apply to those with pretty faces, nice words and good manners.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1003 on: August 05, 2017, 09:59:40 PM »
Yes, Neven, I agree with every word.  Except not caring about Trump.  He's just plain stupid, impulsive, and reckless, in addition to your characterization.  He has the power to launch wars and nukes.  I don't trust him to show any restraint whatsoever.  Getting him out of power is job #1 for global wellbeing.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1004 on: August 05, 2017, 10:14:33 PM »
Totally agree with you too, Steve. We only differ on the way to follow (and of course, I'm not American). I would like to see him bogged down like this for a couple of years, instead of being dealt with by the establishment, where he gets impeached and the true sociopaths take over.

An even bigger fear is that at some point they are able to rein him in. 'You get to be president and have your parties and self-aggrandizing, but you do as we say'. That the investigation is only there as a negotiating tool, and once Trump complies, everyone gets off easy. The Russia-hysteria will then hit back like a boomerang, and who knows, he could get another four years with his fake populist message. Especially if Corporate Democrats get another chance to f*** up yet again.

I can't imagine people won't see by then, that he isn't only part of the swamp. He is the swamp. But who knows, I thought there wasn't a chance in hell that a war criminal like George W. Bush would get re-elected either.

I'm still waiting to see where this goes.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1005 on: August 05, 2017, 10:35:29 PM »

I dug up a transcript of the audio:
I must assume then that you never went to sidd's link. The Hersh audio was presented there and it's what we've been discussing ever since.


Quote

http://redpilledworld.blogspot.com/2017/08/seymour-hersh-audio-transcript.html
All we need to know of what Hersh says is:
"All I know comes off an FBI report."
He says the report was read to him over the phone by a contact, who he considers reliable.

Note, the major MSM "unnamed sources" that the alt-right have dismissed have been put forward with at least one corroborating source.  Not this one.  For all we know Hersh's unnamed source is utterly unreliable.  For all we know, that "FBI report" was a forgery.  Note that false, forged reports about Russiagate have been provided to MSM news sources already.

Brennan, Clapper, and Rogers came up in the audio purely as speculation by Hersh, nothing more.

If the "FBI report" is genuine and supports Rich being the source of WikiLeaks material, then Mueller and his grand jury have it.

In all, there's a lot less here than meets the eye.  It's entirely plausible that Rich's contacts with WikiLeaks, if they happened at all, where not the same e-mails that WikiLeaks published.  It's even plausible that the e-mails that Rich might have had were provided to him by a Russian source, and not from his own work at the DNC.  Using Rich as a conduit to WikiLeaks would convince WikiLeaks that Russia had nothing to do with it.

Or, it's plausible that the "FBI report" was a fabrication, and Hersh has nothing.  Or that Hersh just made up the whole thing, and he has no contact at all.
I don't find the bolded plausible at all. A post or two back you claimed Wikileaks was working with Russia, now you have Russia working with or through Rich to deceive Wikileaks.
Asking others to discount Hersh's body of work is only plausible if your own body of work is  comparable. How many government deceptions have you unearthed?
If you find it easier to believe that Assange, Hersh, Putin, and Trump are conspiring together to make an already defeated candidate look foolish, I'd have to ask you why they are doing so. The election is over. No one is considering a do over. Hillary isn't going to be president - ever.
Adding Seth Rich to our conspirators doesn't add credibility to your story. He was, as far as we know, a pro-Bernie Democrat, not a pro-Trump, pro-Putin, Republican in hiding.

Quote

There's even less to all this than the wildest speculation would support.  The DNC email leak to Wikileaks isn't the only (or even most important) form of Russian interference.  There are solid reports of hacking into local elections commissions--not fo fix the vote count, but to disrupt voter registration records in strategic Democratic districts.   And then there's the well-documented "fake news" reports as the election neared, and related "bot" attacks.  These are more than sufficient to justify sanctions.


If this was true every London Times article advising Germans not to vote for Hitler would have opened Britain to legitimate sanctions by Germany, every Voice of America broadcast would have crossed some imaginary line, and every Globe and Mail post derisive of Trump would open Canada to sanctions.


Countries do have legitimate concerns about who heads other governments, and they have every right to try and influence their vote. Otherwise your own country is the greatest scofflaw the world has seen, as well as the greatest hypocrite.


Terry

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4606
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 879
  • Likes Given: 826
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1006 on: August 05, 2017, 10:41:11 PM »
Neven wrote: "still no proof of 'collusion'".  I thought Trump Jr.'s e-mails were proof of 'collusion'. 

I suspect the Russians, in that meeting, said something like:  the Clinton dirt will come through Wikileaks; in return promise to gut the State Dept.; if DT doesn't we'll release what we have on DT.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1007 on: August 05, 2017, 10:50:22 PM »
Neven wrote: "still no proof of 'collusion'".  I thought Trump Jr.'s e-mails were proof of 'collusion'. 

I suspect the Russians, in that meeting, said something like:  the Clinton dirt will come through Wikileaks; in return promise to gut the State Dept.; if DT doesn't we'll release what we have on DT.


Tor
Your suspicion of what took place behind closed doors does not equate to proof.
I've long held suspicions of what transpired at more than one of the Camp David meetings, but no proof of anything.


Assange fled, but not to Russia.
Terry


Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4606
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 879
  • Likes Given: 826
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1008 on: August 05, 2017, 11:52:08 PM »
The e-mails, I believe, prove collusion (not a crime), and prove Jr.'s (legal) guilt of attempting to receive (illegal) 'value' from foreigners for a political campaign. 

My suspicions are just suspicions.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1009 on: August 06, 2017, 12:23:37 AM »

Steve wrote:
Quote
. . .
All we need to know of what Hersh says is:
"All I know comes off an FBI report."

He says the report was read to him over the phone by a contact, who he considers reliable.
 . .
In all, there's a lot less here than meets the eye.  It's entirely plausible that Rich's contacts with WikiLeaks, if they happened at all, where not the same e-mails that WikiLeaks published.  It's even plausible that the e-mails that Rich might have had were provided to him by a Russian source, and not from his own work at the DNC.  Using Rich as a conduit to WikiLeaks would convince WikiLeaks that Russia had nothing to do with it.

Or, it's plausible that the "FBI report" was a fabrication, and Hersh has nothing.  Or that Hersh just made up the whole thing, and he has no contact at all.

Terry responds:
Quote
I don't find the bolded plausible at all. A post or two back you claimed Wikileaks was working with Russia, now you have Russia working with or through Rich to deceive Wikileaks.

No, wasn't me.  If Julian Assange says Russia wasn't the source of the emails, I believe he's sincere--though possibly deceived.  How could he have confidence that his source wasn't provided the emails via Russia?  Well, if his source actually worked for the DNC, for example.  So, Rich could have been a stooge and didn't himself steal the emails from work.  Or, shoot, Rich's (or somebody else's) identity was stolen to get files to WikiLeaks.  Only an investigation with subpoena powers can sort out the reality.

Remember, the unseen "FBI report" (whose authenticity I gravely doubt) only discussed an analysis of Rich's home computer, not his work computer. 

Terry continues:
Quote
Asking others to discount Hersh's body of work is only plausible if your own body of work is  comparable. How many government deceptions have you unearthed?

I didn't discount Herh's body of work, that wasn't me.  But this argument is just not valid, anyway.  Anyone with decent scholarly skills can establish whether a given author's recent body of work is crap.

Personally, I'd give Hersh the benefit of the doubt about his having some inside source that he trusts.  That doesn't mean I share his trust in the validity of the information he was given.  Nor that I trust his speculations about Clapper et al.

Quote
If you find it easier to believe that Assange, Hersh, Putin, and Trump are conspiring together to make an already defeated candidate look foolish, I'd have to ask you why they are doing so. The election is over. No one is considering a do over. Hillary isn't going to be president - ever.
Adding Seth Rich to our conspirators doesn't add credibility to your story. He was, as far as we know, a pro-Bernie Democrat, not a pro-Trump, pro-Putin, Republican in hiding.

Personally, I think Assange, Hersh, and Rich (if Rich did anything at all) are sincere.  But just possibly deceived.  I don't think Trump *conspired* with Putin to do anything.  I think Trump probably was *informed* that Russia was doing several different things to aid his campaign, and passively allowed the campaign to benefit without objection--which would still be a campaign finance felony.

Steve wrote:
Quote
There's even less to all this than the wildest speculation would support.  The DNC email leak to Wikileaks isn't the only (or even most important) form of Russian interference.  There are solid reports of hacking into local elections commissions--not fo fix the vote count, but to disrupt voter registration records in strategic Democratic districts.   And then there's the well-documented "fake news" reports as the election neared, and related "bot" attacks.  These are more than sufficient to justify sanctions.

Terry responded:
Quote
If this was true every London Times article advising Germans not to vote for Hitler would have opened Britain to legitimate sanctions by Germany, every Voice of America broadcast would have crossed some imaginary line, and every Globe and Mail post derisive of Trump would open Canada to sanctions.

Totally different.  You're citing public statements by one nation about events in another.  Such words may be offensive to a given government, but not illegal or grounds for sanctions.  In the context of US election finance law, that kind of "assistance" to a campaign is out of the control of the official campaign, and thus not illegal.  Nobody's saying Russia should be sanctioned because Putin praised Trump.

Terry continues:
Quote
Countries do have legitimate concerns about who heads other governments, and they have every right to try and influence their vote. Otherwise your own country is the greatest scofflaw the world has seen, as well as the greatest hypocrite.

Entirely agree.  The US has probably been the worst hypocrite and scofflaw when it comes to interfering with elections in other nations, by means other than public statements.  I'm not morally outraged over Putin's putative actions. 

I am outraged by what we *know* of Trump's campaign, and horrified by what we can reasonably conclude from other facts about his campaign. 

Mostly, I'm heartened that relevant facts are coming to light, and that a vigorous investigation is taking place.  I'm cautiously optimistic that Trump can be removed from power before he launches nukes to N. Korea or starts a hot war with Iran.  He holds the power to do both of these things, all by himself.

As for forged documents being provided to news media to create false reporting, it's a real problem.  See:
http://www.salon.com/2017/07/07/rachel-maddow-warns-people-are-trying-to-fool-the-media-with-forged-documents/

This is why I doubt the validity of the "FBI report" that Hersh talks about.

miki

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 223
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1010 on: August 06, 2017, 01:03:14 AM »
Just read this and thought to share here. After all, Trump is not the only sociopath in office, here in the States.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

"In a memo to President Trump, a group of former U.S. intelligence officers, including NSA specialists, cite new forensic studies to challenge the claim of the key Jan. 6 “assessment” that Russia “hacked” Democratic emails last year.

MEMORANDUM FOR: The President

FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

SUBJECT: Was the “Russian Hack” an Inside Job?

Executive Summary

Forensic studies of “Russian hacking” into Democratic National Committee computers last year reveal that on July 5, 2016, data was leaked (not hacked) by a person with physical access to DNC computers, and then doctored to incriminate Russia."

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9470
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1333
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1011 on: August 06, 2017, 11:45:21 AM »
As for forged documents being provided to news media to create false reporting, it's a real problem.  See:
http://www.salon.com/2017/07/07/rachel-maddow-warns-people-are-trying-to-fool-the-media-with-forged-documents/

This is why I doubt the validity of the "FBI report" that Hersh talks about.

As an aside: I saw that Maddow episode. I found it rather flimsy, never mind my opinion that Maddow is one step away from becoming like Glenn Beck, with shades of McCarthy added to the mix. What I found more problematic, is that it reinforces the idea that there are no longer any facts. This is no different from what Trump does, casting doubt on everything.

So, if someone comes with conclusive evidence that for instance the DNC hack was actually a leak, Maddow et al can just go: It's fake, we still need to bomb Russia. And 99% of her followers will just lap it up.

We are basically in a quagmire. I don't know who to trust anymore, and I guess that's exactly how the powers that be want me to feel.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

Jim Pettit

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1012 on: August 06, 2017, 02:47:25 PM »
As an aside: I saw that Maddow episode. I found it rather flimsy, never mind my opinion that Maddow is one step away from becoming like Glenn Beck, with shades of McCarthy added to the mix. What I found more problematic, is that it reinforces the idea that there are no longer any facts. This is no different from what Trump does, casting doubt on everything.

"Maddow is one step away from becoming like Glenn Beck" Seriously?

Beck is a high school graduate; Maddow earned a B.A. at Stanford and a Doctor of Philosophy at Oxford, where she attended as a Rhodes Scholar.

Beck is a proponent of conspiracy theories too insane even for Fox News; Maddow employs a large team of fact checkers who rigorously search for evidence supporting or refuting political theories of the day, and she is well-known for publically admitting when she gets a story wrong, and going sometimes far out of her way to correct it.

Beck is an anti-science, anti-gay, anti-immigration mouthpiece famous for sketching out ridiculous Rube Goldberg-esque contraptions to help him tie toegther, say, Maosim and Hollywood, or Egypt, Marxism, and the Islamic Caliphate. Maddow uses the vast research available to her to point out the intentionally-secretive financial connections between, for example, Jared Kushner and Russian oligarchs.

So far as that document in question: the fact that Maddow's team did NOT simply go to air with the "red hot" fake news they'd been sent is further proof that she values fact over sensationalism. I doubt Beck would have shown such restraint.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 02:57:05 PM by Jim Pettit »

Jim Pettit

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1013 on: August 06, 2017, 02:51:28 PM »
Asking others to discount Hersh's body of work is only plausible if your own body of work is  comparable. How many government deceptions have you unearthed?

Utter nonsense. One need not be a purveyor of bullshit to describe to others exactly how bullshit looks and smells.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 02:57:48 PM by Jim Pettit »

Archimid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3511
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 899
  • Likes Given: 206
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1014 on: August 06, 2017, 04:15:35 PM »
We are basically in a quagmire. I don't know who to trust anymore, and I guess that's exactly how the powers that be want me to feel.

Exactly and that is on purpose and planned. That's the whole point of alternative facts. It gives the base a pie in the sky to hold on to and it confuses the reality of everyone else.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1015 on: August 06, 2017, 05:29:58 PM »
The linked article addresses a new website named Hamilton 68 that provides a dashboard for tracking Russian propaganda on Tweeter including disinformation from Russia that is hostile to the Mueller investigation:

Title: "Russian disinformation is 'hostile' to Robert Mueller, backs Donald Trump, new website shows (Commentary)"

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/08/russian_disinformation_is_host.html

Extract: "News that promotes American interests is often overwhelmed on the popular social-media platform by information that seeks to undermine it -- most notably from Russian agents and bots.

To help combat this threat from abroad, Watts has helped created a new website that tracks some 600 Twitter accounts that push Russian propaganda and disinformation.

The website, a project of the Alliance for Securing Democracy, is called Hamilton 68 -- a reference to the Federalist Papers No. 68, in which Founding Father Alexander Hamilton warned of "the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.""

See also:

http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Martin Gisser

  • Guest
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1016 on: August 06, 2017, 06:18:34 PM »
Extract: "News that promotes American interests is often overwhelmed on the popular social-media platform by information that seeks to undermine it -- most notably from Russian agents and bots
Plus Breitbart (like recently, perhaps directed by Bannon out of the WH), plus Faux News, plus the male white trash wingnut masses who delight in this stuff.

"The Russians" are just helping keep this brew boiling, a brew made in U.S.A., over decades.

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1017 on: August 06, 2017, 07:51:13 PM »

So far as that document in question: the fact that Maddow's team did NOT simply go to air with the "red hot" fake news they'd been sent is further proof that she values fact over sensationalism. I doubt Beck would have shown such restraint.

Exactly.  Forged, authentic-looking documents being provided to news organizations have resulted in the termination of Dan Rather's career:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy

and apparently the careers of 3 CNN veteran reporters:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-cnn-resignation-20170626-story.html

Had Maddow gone live with the forged NSA memo, she'd likely have met the same fate.

In the separate matter of the Hersh audio where he describes having an "FBI report" read to him (without second-source corroboration), I don't think we can give any weight at all to Hersh's words, regardless of his qualifications.

In the separate matter of the VIPS memo to the President, I'm skeptical.  They report on the analysis of July 5, 2016 copy/hack *metadata*, when Assange announced he had Clinton-related emails on June 12, 2016.  The conclusions don't make sense from the material presented.  So I'm skeptical that the memo is genuinely from "Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)."  Perhaps the illogic in the document is why it's not been reported in the MSM at all.

Overall, the picture is that there almost are no reliable facts any more, and precious few reliable sources.  Rather scary.

miki

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 223
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1018 on: August 06, 2017, 08:58:32 PM »

In the separate matter of the VIPS memo to the President, I'm skeptical.  They report on the analysis of July 5, 2016 copy/hack *metadata*, when Assange announced he had Clinton-related emails on June 12, 2016.  The conclusions don't make sense from the material presented.  So I'm skeptical that the memo is genuinely from "Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)."  Perhaps the illogic in the document is why it's not been reported in the MSM at all.

Overall, the picture is that there almost are no reliable facts any more, and precious few reliable sources.  Rather scary.

Indeed. Especially when looking into the past of some of these VIPS. Take this one, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_C._Johnson

Larry C. Johnson is a former analyst at the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. He currently is the co-owner and CEO of BERG Associates, LLC (Business Exposure Reduction Group).

According to The New York Times, Johnson is “best known for spreading a hoax… in 2008 that Michelle Obama had been videotaped using a slur against Caucasians”.[1]
War crime accusations against John Kerry[edit]
In 2013, Johnson falsely accused John Kerry of war crimes in Vietnam, alleging that Kerry had “raped some poor Vietnamese woman.”[17] To support his claim, Johnson used a YouTube video[18] that contained audio clips from a 1971 debate on The Dick Cavett Show between John Kerry and John O’Neill. The original interview[19] audio[20] was altered to piece together words that Kerry spoke at different times during the debate, falsely making it sound as if he said, “I personally raped for pleasure.” When the falsehood was exposed by a reader of Johnson’s blog, Johnson deleted the article without apology.[21]

Allegations that British intelligence wiretapped Donald Trump[edit]
In March 2017, Andrew Napolitano spread the unfounded conspiracy theory that GCHQ, one of Britain’s top intelligence agencies, had wiretapped Donald Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign on orders from President Obama.[1][22] Johnson was the source for Napolitano’s claim.[1][23] The conspiracy theory was later asserted as fact by President Trump, with him citing Fox News and Napolitano.[1] GCHQ responded, stating that the claims were “nonsense, utterly ridiculous and should be ignored”.[24] Fox News later disavowed the statement by Napolitano.[1]

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1019 on: August 07, 2017, 02:41:03 AM »
In the linked Palmer Report article, a Harvard law professor opines that Donald Trump's downfall is unstoppable at the hands of Mueller:

Title: “Legal expert: Donald Trump’s “downfall is unstoppable””

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/legal-expert-donald-trumps-downfall-unstoppable/4204/
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1020 on: August 07, 2017, 04:06:00 AM »
A couple of Republican House staffers have been running around London trying to coordinate a meeting with Christopher Steele:

Title: “Schiff: We want to meet with dossier author”

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/06/politics/adam-schiff-christopher-steele/index.html

Extract: “California Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff said both he and the Republican leading the House intelligence committee's Russia investigation want to meet with the former British intelligence officer who authored a controversial dossier containing explosive allegations about President Donald Trump and top members of his campaign.

Schiff's comments to CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday came after news broke that a pair of Republican staff members on the committee traveled to London to try to get an interview with the dossier author, Christopher Steele.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1021 on: August 07, 2017, 11:16:30 AM »
Jim Petit did a good summary about Rachael Maddow above in his comparison to Glenn Beck.  That's a little like comparing a nicely cooked ribeye steak to a McDonalds hamburger.

I would encourage others to watch her show.  The only thing I would add to Jims entry....is that her team does a GREAT job of pulling in history into her program.  When I watch news or politics....I want to LEARN something.....and when I watch her show, I walk away learning something based on history and facts, not just based on someone's "feelings" (ala FOX).
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1022 on: August 08, 2017, 04:20:22 AM »
Now Trump supporters are claiming that Mueller's formation of a grand jury in Washington D.C. is evidence that Mueller is stacking the panel with biased jurors:

Title: “Everyone Is Biased (Except White People)”

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/08/trump_supporters_think_everyone_except_white_people_is_biased_against_the.html

Extract: “Why Trump supporters’ claims that a D.C. grand jury will be biased against the president sound so familiar.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1023 on: August 08, 2017, 04:34:24 AM »
Trump has lost so much respect, that some prominent Republicans (e.g. Sens Ben Sasse & Tom Cotton and John Kasich) are quietly taking steps to challenge him if he were to run for the 2020 GOP presidential nomination.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1024 on: August 08, 2017, 05:20:36 AM »
ASLR
Remember that Trump stepped on a number of Republican toes as he swept through their primaries. Since delegating almost all of his duties to some of the most conservative Republicans, many have forgiven him, but their support may not reach too deeply.
I'm not sure that I'd prefer a competent conservative to an inept Trump, but it's out of our hands.
Terry

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1025 on: August 09, 2017, 05:37:02 PM »
Mueller is accelerating his investigations:

Title: "FBI agents raided Manafort's home in July"

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/345870-fbi-agents-raided-manaforts-home-in-july

Extract: "FBI agents late last month conducted a raid at the home of Paul Manafort, President Trump's former campaign manager.

The agents had a search warrant to seize materials from Manafort's residence in Alexandria, Va., according to The Washington Post, citing people familiar with special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

The raid took place early on July 26.

Mueller's investigation into Manafort and other Trump associates appears to have accelerated in recent weeks. He has impaneled a grand jury in Washington, D.C., that can issue subpoenas and indictments, should he decide to pursue criminal charges."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Jim Pettit

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1026 on: August 09, 2017, 06:40:06 PM »
The raid took place early on July 26.

It's almost certainly not a coincidence that 7/26 was the day a grim and dour Trump tweeted about his made-up-on-the-spot transgender ban. "Look, everybody! Over there! A shiny object!"

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1027 on: August 09, 2017, 10:45:28 PM »
Hersh confirms that it is his voice on audiotape:

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/08/a-new-twist-in-seth-rich-murder-case/

sidd

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1028 on: August 09, 2017, 10:57:20 PM »
Fortunately......there aren't enough shiny objects in the world to save Donnie's ass as long as Mueller and the FBI are allowed to do their work.  Donnie and a LOT of other people will be taken down.



FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1029 on: August 10, 2017, 12:26:58 AM »
Is Trump trying to distance himself from Manafort?

Title: "Trump Has Implied He Controls the National Enquirer. It Just Accused Paul Manafort of “Betraying His Country.”"

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/08/09/trump_affiliated_national_enquirer_turns_on_paul_manafort.html?google_editors_picks=true

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1030 on: August 10, 2017, 03:49:21 AM »
If you folks get a chance to watch Rachel's show from tonight RE Manafort raid...make sure you watch it...at least the first 40 minutes.

She also discusses a couple important US Prosecutor nominations in two of the Dept of Justice's New York districts, that could play an important part in the RussiaGate prosecution in coming months.  Yes....Rudy Giuliani is trying to save his ass along with Donnie's.

After the Manafort raid....I guess Donnie's staff is done telling any "knock knock" jokes.🕵🏻
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 04:20:12 AM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Martin Gisser

  • Guest
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1031 on: August 10, 2017, 06:54:26 AM »
Yeah. Rachel M.  8)
She seems to be sooo relieved by reporting on that ol North Korea thing...
"Is the U.S. running an actual policy here - or is this improv?"
http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_maddow_emitchell_170809

pppps ROTFLMAO preemptive strike? This is neither actual policy nor improv. Welcome to nucular stone age philosophy!!

pp...
please someone tell Bannon of Ol Ronnie's star wars vision...!

(getting seriously sentimental: I recall discussing associative memory chips for star wars "AI" in high school 1982...)

ppp s=pc^2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann–Morgenstern_utility_theorem
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 07:16:27 AM by Martin Gisser »

Martin Gisser

  • Guest
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1032 on: August 10, 2017, 07:27:45 AM »
Now how often have I spilled my popcorn and nothing seriously happened!? Manafort...

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1033 on: August 10, 2017, 06:20:11 PM »
The next phase of Donnie's defense has now been in motion for a week or two now.  This next phase is working through his media outlets.....primarily FOX....to spread the notion that "even if Trump was guilty of working with the Russians....that's OK."

He and his team aren't saying this YET....he is trying to convince the public at large through FOX.  He understands it is all about the polls....and he will do whatever he can to keep his polls out of the gutter.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1034 on: August 10, 2017, 10:03:14 PM »
Some of the 'leakers' that Trump is trying to suppress are actually FBI informants like Manafort:

Extract: "The Feds Are Closing In On Trump Because Paul Manafort Told Them About Russia Meeting"

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/08/10/feds-closing-trump-paul-manafort-told-russia-meeting.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im

Extract: "Bloomberg reported, “In fact, Manafort had alerted authorities to a controversial meeting on June 9, 2016, involving Trump’s son Donald Jr., other campaign representatives and a Russian lawyer promising damaging information on Hillary Clinton, according to people familiar with the matter. The president and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, were dragged into the matter as details repeatedly emerged that contradicted the initial accounts of that meeting.”

Manafort is not being described as a witness who is flipping on Trump, but it is now known that he provided information to investigators.

If Paul Manafort ever cooperates with prosecutors, it could mean the end for the Trump presidency."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1035 on: August 10, 2017, 11:18:17 PM »
Donnie went out of his way today to kiss Paul's ass.  I think he knows that he can't have Manafort or Flynn flip on him.  Again.....the New York State AG is going to play a HUGE part in this because any crimes on the state level can not be swept away by Donnie like the federal crimes.

My eyes are transfixed on New York State......there are going to be some squirrels with some very sore nuts when Schneiderman gets done with them.🐿.....😳
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1036 on: August 11, 2017, 06:27:15 AM »
Curiouser and curiouser. Apparently there were two leaks from the democratic party leadership, one (allegedly by Hersh to be from Seth Rich) to wikileaks, and another to Guccifer2.0. And the second was dressed with metadata pointing to a Russian origin, but quite incompetently.

Read all about it, the first has a letter signed by Bill Binney, Larry Johnson, Colleen Rowley, Skip Folden, John Kirikaou and a host of other intelligence vets who have never lied to us, and some have been prosecuted and gone to jail.  The second link is quite technical, and everything it says is true.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-metadata-analysis/

sidd


Jim Pettit

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1037 on: August 11, 2017, 01:41:18 PM »
Curiouser and curiouser. Apparently there were two leaks from the democratic party leadership, one (allegedly by Hersh to be from Seth Rich) to wikileaks, and another to Guccifer2.0. And the second was dressed with metadata pointing to a Russian origin, but quite incompetently.

Read all about it, the first has a letter signed by Bill Binney, Larry Johnson, Colleen Rowley, Skip Folden, John Kirikaou and a host of other intelligence vets who have never lied to us, and some have been prosecuted and gone to jail.  The second link is quite technical, and everything it says is true.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-metadata-analysis/

Parry's pro-Putin, anti-Obama, pro-Trump, rabidly anti-Clinton stance makes anything he writes difficult to digest, so I, along with many other progressives, no longer bother with Consortium News or Russia Insider or any of the other outfits for which he writes. Alternate points of view are welcome; alternate realities are not.

Don't know much about "The Forensicator" blog, other than the fact that it's only been up about a month, so there's absolutely no way to ascertain its veracity. I will note, however, that the Seth Rich story as promulgated by journalistic fonts of truth as Fox & Breitbart & Drudge (and "The Forensicator") has been not just debunked, but thoroughly and permanently debunked.

The basic facts remain:

1) Russia interfered with the 2016 Presidential election;
2) Russia did so in order to get Trump elected;
3) It's become increasingly apparent that the Trump campaign worked with Russia to make that happen.

No amount of anti-Clinton raging is going to make those facts go away.

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 536
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 45
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1038 on: August 11, 2017, 02:21:42 PM »
Anyone who buys into and pushes the debunked Seth Rich conspiracy theory is showing a basic lack of decency and empathy.  Imagine if your child was murdered, and then complete strangers exploited your tragedy as an argumentative tool against other people or political groups you disagree with.  How would you feel?  It's shameful, and otherwise intelligent people in this forum should be above such behavior. 

Seth Rich was a son and a bright young man who had nothing to do with these wild accusations.  Have some humanity and argue your positions with facts.

Jim Pettit

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1039 on: August 11, 2017, 03:12:21 PM »
I just want to note that, aside from his reckless "Fire and Fury", "Locked and Loaded" BS, in the past 24 hours Trump has:

1) Chastised the United States for imposing sanctions on Russia;

2) Thanked Russia for imposing sanctions on the United States.

No traitor. No traitor. You're the traitor...

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0

Jim Pettit

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1041 on: August 11, 2017, 10:27:44 PM »
DNC leak story getting legs. The Nation and bloomberg running with it.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-10/why-some-u-s-ex-spies-don-t-buy-the-russia-story

That breathless piece in The Nation rests entirely on the information found in the Forensicator article to which you linked earlier, which itself has erected a large and flimsy structure on the unsolid premise that someone transferred files from the DNC faster than normally possible on the internet.

You get that? Fast data download. That. Is. The. Entire. Crux. Of. The. Argument.

IOW, Lawrence at The Nation (who told us as recently as a month ago that there is "unacknowledged logic" behind North Korea's missile tests and acquisition of nukes as that may prevent the US from forcing out Kim Jung Un, and who wrote two weeks ago that we shouldn't impose sanctions on Russia for Reasons) has bought into the gibberish-laden babblings of this anonymous analyst "Forensicator", and has thus summarily dismissed the findings of American intelligence officials, along with the growing evidence bolstering the theory that Russia was behind this mess.

(I'll ignore the Bloomberg piece here, as it a) says almost exactly what the Nation article does, and b) it was authored by an anti-Clinton Russian expat who has authored articles such as "Putin's Meddling Will Be Good for U.S. Democracy", "Punishing Putin Mostly Means Punishing His Foes", and "Why Shirtless Putin Is Having the Last Laugh".)

If indeed someone at the DNC leaked data and tried to pin it on the Russians, it needs to be investigated, we need to know about it, and there need to be severe repercussions. But we're going to need far more than a "it was so fast it might have been put onto a thumb drive". As stated in New York Magazine in response to Lawrence's generally incoherent piece: "There may be evidence out there, somewhere, that a vast conspiracy theory has taken place to cover up a leak and blame Russia. But it’s going to need to be at least comprehensible."

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1042 on: August 11, 2017, 11:15:22 PM »
I notice i didn't include the link to Adam Carter on insertion of data and metadata indicating russian involvement.

http://g-2.space/

This is the reference to RSID identifiers, the name "Warren Flood" and a bunch else. Also quite technical.

sidd

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 19703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2268
  • Likes Given: 286
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1043 on: August 11, 2017, 11:48:30 PM »
The investigation has now reached Trump's longtime secretary:

Title: "Congressional investigators want to question Trump's longtime secretary, Rhona Graff, in Russia probe"

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-longtime-secretary-scrutinized-russia-investigators/story?id=49146540

Congressional investigators want to question President Donald Trump’s longtime personal secretary as part of their ongoing probe into a controversial meeting between Trump campaign officials and a Russian lawyer promising dirt on Hillary Clinton, ABC News has learned.

Rhona Graff, a senior vice president at the Trump Organization who has worked at Trump Tower for nearly 30 years, has acted as a gatekeeper to Trump. She remains a point of contact for the sprawling universe of Trump associates, politicians, reporters and others seeking Trump's time and attention, even now that he's in the White House.

Graff's position in Trump's orbit recently gained attention after Donald Trump Jr. released a June 2016 email exchange with British publicist Rob Goldstone leading up to the meeting with Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya at Trump Tower."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1044 on: August 12, 2017, 01:23:08 AM »
Re: DNC leakage

A possible avenue for the leaks might be through the Awan family. A sleazeball called Imran Awan and several relatives had admin level access to about 80 House reps computers including Wasserman-Schulz, was ripping off banks and the government, and was recently busted for bank fraud, just after transferring a few hundred K to Pakistan. I could easily see that guy selling emails to the highest bidder. Awan has a high priced DC shyster and former Bill Clinton aide called Chris Gowan defending him, so he might walk. Another reason he might walk is the Wasserman-Schulz has a brother called Steven Wasserman, who is an assistant US attorney in DC.

Discovery in that case might be interesting tho.

sidd

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1045 on: August 12, 2017, 01:33:43 AM »
Re: DNC leakage

A possible avenue for the leaks might be through the Awan family. A sleazeball called Imran Awan and several relatives had admin level access to about 80 House reps computers including Wasserman-Schulz, was ripping off banks and the government, and was recently busted for bank fraud, just after transferring a few hundred K to Pakistan. I could easily see that guy selling emails to the highest bidder. Awan has a high priced DC shyster and former Bill Clinton aide called Chris Gowan defending him, so he might walk. Another reason he might walk is the Wasserman-Schulz has a brother called Steven Wasserman, who is an assistant US attorney in DC.

Discovery in that case might be interesting tho.

sidd


Some reports place Imran with Seth Rich on his final night barhopping through Washington.


I have no idea what might be found, but some agency needs to start looking.


Terry

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1046 on: August 12, 2017, 10:34:35 AM »
Curiouser and curiouser. Apparently there were two leaks from the democratic party leadership, one (allegedly by Hersh to be from Seth Rich) to wikileaks, and another to Guccifer2.0. And the second was dressed with metadata pointing to a Russian origin, but quite incompetently.

Read all about it, the first has a letter signed by Bill Binney, Larry Johnson, Colleen Rowley, Skip Folden, John Kirikaou and a host of other intelligence vets who have never lied to us, and some have been prosecuted and gone to jail.  The second link is quite technical, and everything it says is true.

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-metadata-analysis/

sidd

The cited analysis is of July 5, 2016 copy/hack *metadata*. Note that Assange announced he had Clinton-related emails on June 12, 2016.  You can analyze the July 5 material all you like, even prove it was done by Richard Nixon's great-grandchild, and it all says nothing about the material Assagne had on June 12.  Conclusions based on the July 5 event are all pointless.

Jim Pettit

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1047 on: August 12, 2017, 01:21:21 PM »
Quote
Some reports place Imran with Seth Rich on his final night barhopping through Washington.

"Some reports"? That sure sounds a lot like Trump's pet qualifier "Lots of people are saying." ;-)

It is definitely the belief of the fantasy-immersed Infowars/WND/Breitbart/Drudge universe that Rich and Imran were out partying together the night he was murdered--doubtless escorted to the pedophile pizza dungeon by a topless DWS, Hillary & Bill in drag, Pelosi wearing a vinyl gimp costume, with a leash held by George Soros in one hand, and a vial of sacrificial goat's blood in the other. Or something. Besides, if Roger Stone says it happened, who is Rich's family to dispute it?

Good lord. Some ostensibly on the left have such a deep-seated hatred for All Things Clinton that they've become de facto members of the Alt-Right, hungrily devouring whatever debunked and debunkable nonsense passes for "news" in that cesspool so long as it paints the DNC/DCCC in a negative light. And thus the circle is complete.

Sigh...

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1048 on: August 12, 2017, 05:44:58 PM »
Keep your eyes on RussiaGate....not the shiny objects that Donnie keeps flashing.  Noose is tightening on Trump admin.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 893
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1049 on: August 12, 2017, 05:55:23 PM »
Jim
I used that sentence structure purposefully. I have no idea whether such a meeting took place or not & it was my uncertainty about the Imran/Seth meeting that I was attempting to convey.


As far as the Clinton's go, I was a supporter of Bill's through the 8 years of his presidency and beyond. He was the first president of my age (He's younger by a few months), "experimented" with many of the substances I experimented with, even combed his hair properly. What's not to like?
I also supported Hillary in the Senate, and in her first presidential candidacy. I didn't believe American's would elect a black man, and was quite content at being proven wrong.
Hillary and I parted ways during her tenure as Secretary of State. She proved too much of a hawk for my liking.
I don't think supporting the Clintons in all but one of their endeavors qualifies me as having "a deep seated hatred for All Things Clinton", but we interpret things individually.
If I was the type to dance in the street I'd have done so in '92 and '96. Bill made some terrible compromises during his presidency, but he was under more pressure than any president until that time.
I assumed that Hillary was simply was simply preemptively warding off attacks that as a woman she'd be too soft if elected, until I saw her reaction to Qaddafi's death. That wasn't rehearsed & that was enough to drive me away forever.


She missed her grab for the brass ring, and I'm not disappointed.
Terry