Please support this Forum and Neven's Blog

Author Topic: Greenland 2017 melt season  (Read 12603 times)

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Royalty
  • Posts: 8320
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2017, 01:05:49 PM »
Greenland, the land of ice and snow, is burning
There’s been nothing even close to this since reliable satellite-based fire detection records began in Greenland in 2000. Very small wildfires can evade satellite detection, and old-timer scientists who have worked in Greenland for decades say that micro-fires there aren’t necessarily uncommon.

This week’s fire, however, is on another level. ...
https://grist.org/article/greenland-the-land-of-ice-and-snow-is-burning/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

gerontocrat

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2017, 01:44:42 PM »
Greenland, the land of ice and snow, is burning
There’s been nothing even close to this since reliable satellite-based fire detection records began in Greenland in 2000. Very small wildfires can evade satellite detection, and old-timer scientists who have worked in Greenland for decades say that micro-fires there aren’t necessarily uncommon.

This week’s fire, however, is on another level. ...
https://grist.org/article/greenland-the-land-of-ice-and-snow-is-burning/
Also robertscribbler.com - his latest is on this plus Siberia wildfires and loads of links. Could not resist lifting the graph below from his article.

Did anyone see this one coming? I certainly didn't.

numerobis

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2017, 03:59:16 PM »
Having seen peat fires in the Lincolnshire Fens burn for 3 years until they burn 14 ft down to the water table (lower than sea level due to drainage) I would be worried. The saving factor in Greenland may be a higher water content in the peat.

How deep is the peat in that part of Greenland anyway? Around Iqaluit I'm seeing it be maybe a foot or two at the deepest, and generally just inches.

It's devastating for the local wildlife. Tundra grows very slowly.

nukefix

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 390
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #103 on: August 11, 2017, 10:10:04 AM »
It's devastating for the local wildlife. Tundra grows very slowly.
I would think it's a normal part of nature there.

gerontocrat

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #104 on: August 11, 2017, 01:01:51 PM »
How deep is the peat in that part of Greenland anyway? Around Iqaluit I'm seeing it be maybe a foot or two at the deepest, and generally just inches.


This is a quote from a 2010 report by the Danish Geological Survey. (http://www.posiva.fi/files/1244/WR_2010-07web.pdf)

"Soils are generally thin, and especially in the gneiss regions rather poor in plant nutrients. Permafrost occurs throughout the ice free areas of Greenland. It is continuous in the north, discontinuous along parts of the central east and west coast and occurs as isolated patches in the south. Kangerlussuaq is in the southernmost part of the continuous permafrost zone. "

Sebastian Jones

  • ASIF Lurker
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #105 on: August 11, 2017, 06:20:14 PM »
The tundra burning in Greenland has not evolved with fire. The boreal forest- which may start to appear in Greenland this century- does have fire as part of its natural cycle. The hunters who were unable to get out on the land due to smoke, will also have to contend with caribou that no longer have forage, for decades, where the fires burned.

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1191
    • View Profile
    • Nexpaq Modular ARA iOS Software Mobile Computing Phones Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multipelsklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgie
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #106 on: August 11, 2017, 09:42:38 PM »
It's devastating for the local wildlife. Tundra grows very slowly.
I would think it's a normal part of nature there.

growth is fastest after wildfires, where i live almost half of the area has been on fire once during the past 20 years and growth, including speed and hight of brushes has doubled after each fire. further i think that the soil is building a bit faster since the tundra does not build that much of humus while ashes and burned residues do. even though in places it's blown away, it will accumulate in places and build fruitful earth, behaviour would be simiilar to sand and snow, filling throughs and building little thicker spots where different plants can grow once the climate allows.
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

gerontocrat

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #107 on: August 15, 2017, 12:59:15 PM »
Greenland Melt is turning into Surface Mass Budget Gain. Loads of precipitation in the North-West. Snow ?
GOTO http://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/

Adam Ash

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 218
    • View Profile
    • The 100 metre line
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #108 on: August 15, 2017, 01:29:24 PM »
OK, so snow is insulation, preventing lower winter temperatures reaching top surfaces which have been exposed to melt recently.  Although there may be a mass gain in this fall, it may not translate into hard ice, but rather it may quickly become surface water in the spring, and run off, adding to last years in-depth reservoirs/lenses of free water within the warming ice column. 

The on-going increases to the ice column's internal temperature which I assume must be occurring from both surface insolation and water flows, and from deep water flows (moulins and basement water along the ice rock interface) would seem (to me) to be leading to a scenario where comparatively large masses of the ice sheet could loose mechanical coherence under minor perturbations such as earthquakes.

Martin Gisser

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 318
  • alias Mars Joh. P. Florifulgurator
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #109 on: August 15, 2017, 05:21:53 PM »
It's devastating for the local wildlife. Tundra grows very slowly.
I would think it's a normal part of nature there.

growth is fastest after wildfires, where i live almost half of the area has been on fire once during the past 20 years and growth, including speed and hight of brushes has doubled after each fire. further i think that the soil is building a bit faster since the tundra does not build that much of humus while ashes and burned residues do. even though in places it's blown away, it will accumulate in places and build fruitful earth, behaviour would be simiilar to sand and snow, filling throughs and building little thicker spots where different plants can grow once the climate allows.
Plus, some char coal is produced, which does not rot and improves soil structure. Fires can have a carbon sequestrating and soil building effect. E.g. some of the deep black chernozem soils seem to consist mostly of inorganic carbon from grass fires.
Why is the earth silent at this destruction? (Martin Heidegger ca. 1937)

Coffee Drinker

  • ASIF Lurker
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #110 on: Today at 01:15:33 AM »
Fryer glacier frost period started a few days ago. Also visible on the webcam is all the snow that seems to have survived the summer and new snow on the surrounding hills.

The webcam is at 870m above sea level.

Quite a contrast to last year:

18/8/2017
https://www.foto-webcam.eu/webcam/freya1/

25/8/2016
https://www.foto-webcam.eu/webcam/freya1/2016/08/25/1200
« Last Edit: Today at 03:19:28 AM by Coffee Drinker »

Coffee Drinker

  • ASIF Lurker
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Greenland 2017 melt season
« Reply #111 on: Today at 01:28:39 AM »
It's devastating for the local wildlife. Tundra grows very slowly.
I would think it's a normal part of nature there.

Someone must have caused the fire. Maybe some locals camping and not being careful enough. Wouldn't call that natural.