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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1750 on: June 14, 2017, 07:22:49 PM »
Dispatchable Solar. 

Chew on that for awhile.  Dispatchable solar.

That's what is now emerging in utility scale solar.  Because midday solar has eaten so much into midday demand there is less money to be made so large solar farm installers are beginning to add storage to their installations so that a portion of what they produce can be saved and sold into more profitable demand hours.  Even companies not now adding storage are engineering their farms so that storage can be easily added once the price of batteries drops more.

What I haven't heard is a mention of that storage also being used for arbitrage.  After the batteries have been discharged in the evening they could be recharged with inexpensive late night wind production and then that electricity sold into more profitable morning markets.

As dispatchable solar and wind become more affordable fossil fuels will be pushed further and further into the background.

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1751 on: June 14, 2017, 08:48:18 PM »
CSP is already doing dispatchable solar.

Batteries are nice because then you have dispatchable electricity no matter the original source. It doesn't much matter whether you stuffed it in at the solar panel, the windmill, or at the use point, or anywhere in between.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1752 on: June 14, 2017, 09:00:49 PM »
CSP is already doing dispatchable solar.

Batteries are nice because then you have dispatchable electricity no matter the original source. It doesn't much matter whether you stuffed it in at the solar panel, the windmill, or at the use point, or anywhere in between.

CSP does not seem to be attracting investment.  Perhaps it will become a player later in the transition but right now we're not seeing the financial argument being sufficiently made.

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1753 on: June 14, 2017, 09:21:58 PM »
CSP certainly does not seem to be taking off. Perhaps the collapsing costs of solar PV plus a future of falling battery prices has made it uncompetitive.

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1754 on: June 15, 2017, 05:12:55 AM »
CSP, like pumped hydro, requires a particular situation (basically, high desert near the equator). It won't be everywhere.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1755 on: June 15, 2017, 06:35:27 AM »
Pump-up hydro storage can be built just about anywhere.

DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1756 on: June 15, 2017, 01:20:53 PM »
CSP, like pumped hydro, requires a particular situation (basically, high desert near the equator). It won't be everywhere.

There many versions of csp.  A few integrated solar gas plants are already built across Mediterranean Africa and Sauidi Arabia.

DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1757 on: June 15, 2017, 01:25:18 PM »
Hydroelectric dams may jeopardize the Amazon's future

Quote
Hundreds of built and proposed hydroelectric dams may significantly harm life in and around the Amazon by trapping the flow of rich nutrients and modifying the climate from Central America to the Gulf of Mexico. These findings, published in Nature, emerge from a multidisciplinary, international collaboration of researchers from 10 universities, led by scientists at The University of Texas at Austin.

Quote
To meet energy needs, economic developers in South America have proposed 428 hydroelectric dams, with 140 currently built or under construction, in the Amazon basin—the largest and most complex network of river channels in the world, which sustains the highest biodiversity on Earth. The rivers and surrounding forests are the source of 20 percent of the planet's fresh water and valuable ingredients used in modern medicine.

While these hydroelectric dams have been justified for providing renewable energy and avoiding carbon emissions, little attention has been paid to the major disturbances dams present to the Amazon floodplains, rainforests, the northeast coast of South America and the regional climate, the researchers said.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature22333


crandles

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1758 on: June 15, 2017, 01:35:43 PM »
Quote
Future Energy: Will buses be run on coffee?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38854886

DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1759 on: June 15, 2017, 01:47:59 PM »

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1760 on: June 15, 2017, 06:58:32 PM »
Wind and solar supplied more than 10% of all US electricity in March of this year.  And probably supplied more than 10% in April (final numbers are not in).

Demand is lower in the spring and it's usually windy at that time.  Ten percent won't hold through the summer. 

This year.  US solar doubled in 2016.  Another doubling and wind and solar should produce more than 10% of US electricity annually.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1761 on: June 15, 2017, 08:52:57 PM »
Australia attempts to placate coal boosters by recommending cheaper solar always be installed with storage. ;D 

Coalition wants wind, solar forced to match each MW with storage
Quote
The federal Coalition is proposing to try and “level the playing field” between cheap renewables and fossil fuel generation by forcing wind and solar plants to match each megawatt of capacity with one megawatt hour of storage.
...
http://reneweconomy.com.au/coalition-wants-wind-solar-forced-match-mw-storage-15465/

Electrek says:
Quote
It puts the average cost of wind and solar without storage at around AUS$92-$92/MWh, and AUS$107-$108/MWh with storage.
– Are they fools? Are the fossil fuel majors so out of touch as to think that they’d be able to alter their ends by increasing the price of renewables around 16% – knowing that renewables might fall in price by 16%…in a year or two? And if they require all of this energy storage – then they must realize that it will only accelerate the rate at which these energy sources consume their precious ‘baseload’ monopoly? Careful what you ask for gentlemen.
https://electrek.co/2017/06/15/egeb-smart-v2g-massachusetts-energy-storage-tesla-tsec-perc-el-paso/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1762 on: June 16, 2017, 03:39:47 AM »
Australia attempts to placate coal boosters by recommending cheaper solar always be installed with storage. ;D 

Coalition wants wind, solar forced to match each MW with storage
Quote
The federal Coalition is proposing to try and “level the playing field” between cheap renewables and fossil fuel generation by forcing wind and solar plants to match each megawatt of capacity with one megawatt hour of storage.
...
http://reneweconomy.com.au/coalition-wants-wind-solar-forced-match-mw-storage-15465/

Electrek says:
Quote
It puts the average cost of wind and solar without storage at around AUS$92-$92/MWh, and AUS$107-$108/MWh with storage.
– Are they fools? Are the fossil fuel majors so out of touch as to think that they’d be able to alter their ends by increasing the price of renewables around 16% – knowing that renewables might fall in price by 16%…in a year or two? And if they require all of this energy storage – then they must realize that it will only accelerate the rate at which these energy sources consume their precious ‘baseload’ monopoly? Careful what you ask for gentlemen.
https://electrek.co/2017/06/15/egeb-smart-v2g-massachusetts-energy-storage-tesla-tsec-perc-el-paso/

If they could force that through they would create a lot of dispatchable wind and solar produced electricity.  And that dispatchable electricity would go right after the highest priced (most profitable) hours of demand.

That happens and any survival money that FF now makes when wind and solar are not directly supplying the grid goes away.  Coal gets a significant shove into its grave.

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1763 on: June 18, 2017, 08:00:16 PM »
De-Constructing Baseload

Very interesting read about ways to overcome the needs for baseload capacity from Ren21.

http://www.ren21.net/gsr-2017/chapters/chapter_08/chapter_08/

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1764 on: June 19, 2017, 09:16:22 PM »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1765 on: June 20, 2017, 05:55:11 PM »
Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money
In a windsurfers’ paradise, turbines capture gusts that pick up at exactly the right time - or the wrong time, if you're trying to sell natural gas.
Quote
...
[South Texas] is to wind, engineers have discovered in recent years, a bit like what Napa Valley is to wine and Georgia is to peaches. For not only does the state’s Gulf Coast generate strong evening gusts, but it also blows fiercely in the middle of the day, just as electricity consumption is peaking.
...
In the cut-throat Texas energy market, the construction of these coastal wind turbines—some 900 in all—has had a profound impact. It’s been terrific for consumers, helping further drive down electricity bills, but horrible for natural gas-fired generators. They had ramped up capacity in recent years anticipating that midday price surge would mostly be theirs, not something to share with renewable energy companies. Without that steady cash influx, the business model doesn’t really work, the profits aren’t there and companies including Calpine Corp., NRG Energy Inc. and Exelon Corp. are now either postponing new gas-fired plants or ditching them all together.

Wind power “is a disruptive technology and it’s increasing,” said Paul Patterson, a utility analyst at Glenrock Associates LLC in New York. “That’s a problem for other resources that are competing in that market.”

And it’s not just the coastal turbines that are cutting into gas-fired plants’ business. When inland farms are included, wind power now supplies about a fifth of Texas’s electricity market. Solar power is also growing in the state. All of this helped push the average on-peak price set by Ercot—the grid operator that controls most of the Texas market—down 55 percent the past five years to $25.34 per megawatt hour, according to data compiled by Genscape Inc.
...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-20/texas-is-too-windy-and-sunny-for-old-energy-companies-to-make-money
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1766 on: June 20, 2017, 09:06:40 PM »
Sing more of that sweet, sweet song.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1767 on: June 21, 2017, 03:56:18 PM »
Drone video of Tesla’s solar + Powerpacks project soon to be powering Kauai
Quote
... The project consists of a 52 MWh Tesla Powerpack installation (272 units) with a 18 MW solar farm (~55,000 solar panels)....

...The project provides KIUC with energy for less than the cost of hydrocarbon-fueled alternatives and cuts oil consumption by over 2 million gallons per year.”...

In reference to Tesla’s recent Powerpack projects on remote islands earlier this month, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that continents are basically large islands and that if they can convert a small island to solar and battery packs, eventually they will be able to convert whole continents.
https://electrek.co/2017/06/21/tesla-solar-powerpack-kauai-drone-video/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1768 on: June 23, 2017, 08:40:45 PM »
(Obama's Secretary of Energy) Ernest Moniz: I never left.
https://twitter.com/ernestmoniz/status/877870716460335104

Bloomberg: Ernest Moniz Is Back
- Ernest Moniz advisory group will continue his Energy research
- First order of business is a grid study to rival Trump’s
Quote
While President Donald Trump’s Energy Department is studying how to save coal plants, veterans from the administration of President Barack Obama’s Energy Department announced a new effort to figure out how to curtail carbon in the U.S. energy system.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-06-21/obama-s-energy-chief-returns-citing-leadership-void-under-trump
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1769 on: June 24, 2017, 08:20:49 AM »
Quote
Institutional investors remain eager to put money to work on renewable energy projects even as U.S. President Donald Trump has vowed to revive their chief competitor: coal, financial executives said at a conference this week.

"Five or six years ago, funds weren't specifically targeting renewable investment; today it's a key component of infrastructure investment," said David Giordano, managing director and head of North American, Latin American and Asia Pacific investments at BlackRock, on the sidelines of the Renewable Energy Finance Forum in New York.

Giordano, who is also a board member of the American Council on Renewable Energy, which put on the forum, said renewable energy was no longer considered a niche.

BlackRock's renewable infrastructure investment platform, launched in 2012 by Giordano's team, now manages more than $4 billion in client assets, mostly in wind and solar projects.

Strong interest in green energy comes as Trump is championing fossil fuels and targeting environmental regulations as job killers. Trump’s administration, however, has made no moves to target federal tax incentives for renewable energy projects, which have helped make the technologies more competitive with traditional fuels like coal and natural gas, thanks mainly to bipartisan support in Congress.


http://www.businessinsider.com/r-renewable-energy-no-longer-a-niche-to-institutional-investors-2017-6


Steady boys, the world she's a changin'....

BenB

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1770 on: June 26, 2017, 12:26:02 PM »
In April, renewable energy sources were responsible for almost 23% of US electricity generation:

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/

Solar grew particularly quickly – 48.5% over the previous year – to around 2.2% of total electricity. However, hydro and wind remained by far the biggest renewable energy sources.

For the second month in a row, renewables generated more than nuclear power, partly because nuclear was down 9% year-on-year. Nuclear obviously still generates much more than any single renewable energy technology.

In a reversal of trends in recent years, coal was up, while natural gas was down, reflecting higher natural gas prices.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1771 on: June 26, 2017, 04:40:28 PM »
In April, renewable energy sources were responsible for almost 23% of US electricity generation:

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/

Solar grew particularly quickly – 48.5% over the previous year – to around 2.2% of total electricity. However, hydro and wind remained by far the biggest renewable energy sources.

For the second month in a row, renewables generated more than nuclear power, partly because nuclear was down 9% year-on-year. Nuclear obviously still generates much more than any single renewable energy technology.

In a reversal of trends in recent years, coal was up, while natural gas was down, reflecting higher natural gas prices.

Looking at a 12 month year ending in April (latest month of data) solar has risen to 1.5% of all US generation (utility plus behind the meter generation).

Wind is up 14.1% over the previous 12 months.  Wind generated 5.8% of all electricity.

Combined, wind and solar produced 7.3% of all US generated electricity from May 2016 through April 2017.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1772 on: June 27, 2017, 02:00:12 AM »
"For those that say wind energy is not loved by animals.. "
https://twitter.com/bonnienorman/status/879359061552119809
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1773 on: June 27, 2017, 05:37:04 AM »
Those animals laying down out there - are they the ones that ran themselves to death trying to stay in the blade shade?


 :P

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1774 on: June 27, 2017, 07:31:00 AM »
The picture doesn't show the constant rain of endangered flying pigs falling from the sky.

oren

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1775 on: June 27, 2017, 07:36:58 AM »
Those animals laying down out there - are they the ones that ran themselves to death trying to stay in the blade shade?


 :P
It reminds me of a photo I took twenty years ago near a restaurant in the middle of Death Valley, of several birds lined up along the shade of a pole (or tree trunk?). It seemed very serene at first, but then I had a good laugh trying to imagine them hopping along as the shade moved, with the one closest to the axis congratulating itself on its good luck...

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1776 on: June 27, 2017, 04:11:51 PM »
Kees van der Leun:  Over the past 3 days, Danish wind (dark blue) + solar PV (yellow) produced roughly as much electricity as the country used (red line).
https://mobile.twitter.com/Sustainable2050/status/879397139838849024
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1777 on: June 27, 2017, 04:18:58 PM »
"1 football pitch of food-based #biofuels powers 2.4 cars
1 football pitch of #solar panels powers 260 cars
More on biofuelsreform.org "

https://twitter.com/transenv/status/878651560137543683
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1778 on: June 27, 2017, 04:27:09 PM »
Due to land-use changes.

"Today EU biodiesel produces, on avg, 80% more CO2 than fossil diesel. The cure is worse than the disease!
Learn why #Deforestation #PalmOil "
Short video at the link:  https://twitter.com/transenv/status/879271385675247619
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1779 on: June 28, 2017, 01:33:02 AM »
Those animals laying down out there - are they the ones that ran themselves to death trying to stay in the blade shade?
:P
These ones, I guess, made calculations using the sun angle and wind direction before choosing their blade shadow.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1780 on: June 28, 2017, 02:56:58 AM »
Those animals laying down out there - are they the ones that ran themselves to death trying to stay in the blade shade?
 :P
These ones, I guess, made calculations using the sun angle and wind direction before choosing their blade shadow.

PV might offer even more shade at such a location.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1781 on: June 28, 2017, 03:31:55 PM »
From the China thread:

Six Million People in China Just Went 100% Renewable for a Week
It's the first major test of renewable energy on the grid in China.
Quote
...
“Clean energy is the ultimate way,” Han Ti, general manager of the Qinghai grid company told local news outlet Xinhua. “We need to reduce reliance on fossil fuel, improve our energy structure, and reduce carbon emissions.”

The Qinghai province has 19.7 million kW of renewable energy installed, and makes up a little over 82 percent of all the energy production in the province. Qinghai is the fourth largest province in China, spanning the northeast part of the Tibetan plateau and has the headwaters of the two largest rivers in China, the Yellow and Yangtze Rivers. Most of the energy during the test week was produced by hydro-electric power, thanks to the major rivers. Because of its renewable energy output, and the fact that it is one of the most sparsely populated regions of China, it is the ideal place to test the using only green energy.
...
https://www.inverse.com/article/33426-china-renewable-energy-seven-days
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DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1782 on: June 28, 2017, 03:52:23 PM »
From the China thread:

Six Million People in China Just Went 100% Renewable for a Week
It's the first major test of renewable energy on the grid in China.
Quote
...
“Clean energy is the ultimate way,” Han Ti, general manager of the Qinghai grid company told local news outlet Xinhua. “We need to reduce reliance on fossil fuel, improve our energy structure, and reduce carbon emissions.”

The Qinghai province has 19.7 million kW of renewable energy installed, and makes up a little over 82 percent of all the energy production in the province. Qinghai is the fourth largest province in China, spanning the northeast part of the Tibetan plateau and has the headwaters of the two largest rivers in China, the Yellow and Yangtze Rivers. Most of the energy during the test week was produced by hydro-electric power, thanks to the major rivers. Because of its renewable energy output, and the fact that it is one of the most sparsely populated regions of China, it is the ideal place to test the using only green energy.
...
https://www.inverse.com/article/33426-china-renewable-energy-seven-days

>70% Hydro.  Worth mentioning...

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1783 on: June 28, 2017, 09:27:23 PM »
New proposals would kill solar and wind in the European Union

"The problem, as the experts certainly know, is twofold. First, wind and solar react to the weather, not to prices. From the grid operator’s perspective, this situation is undesirable: they want generators that produce more power when needed and less when not. Solar and wind cannot be switched on.

Second, solar and wind cannibalize themselves. When the wind blows and the sun shines, more power is generated, so power prices on spot markets go down. If no payment is ensured for curtailment, it doesn’t matter how cheap solar and wind get; they price themselves out of the market. In other words, if you want wind and solar, you want guaranteed payments for them. Calls for them to make do with spot prices (and, eventually, forgo curtailment payments) are tantamount to saying, let’s just not have wind and solar, shall we?"

In the absence of large-scale storage (or a highly geographically diversified grid) this is always going to be a problem, even more if there is major capacity overbuild to increase the renewables production during low wind/sun days. Seems that wind and solar can put themselves out of business in the short-term, not just the fossil fuel providers.

https://energytransition.org/2017/06/new-proposals-would-kill-solar-and-wind-in-eu/

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1784 on: June 29, 2017, 01:51:02 AM »
'Bring on more renewables,' U.S. regulator says as grid study looms
Quote
Wind and solar power does not make the U.S. electricity grid less stable, an outgoing federal regulator said on Tuesday, as the Trump administration readies a study that will examine whether renewable energy has had a harmful effect....
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-powergrid-idUSKBN19I2B6
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1785 on: June 29, 2017, 08:21:27 AM »
Quote
Solar and wind cannot be switched on.

Sure they can.  If storage has been installed.  Tesla is building dispatchable solar in Hawaii and another company is building dispatchable solar in Arizona.

There are a couple of questions which will need to be answered later.  How much storage and what kind?  Most grids have far too little wind and solar to worry about storage now.


Quote
if you want wind and solar, you want guaranteed payments for them

Not needed.  If there's as much wind and solar online as the grid can use no one is going to build an additional wind or solar farm unless they can sell for less than another wind and solar farm.  That could happen, that's what happens in open markets.  Right now we see NG and wind putting coal out of business because NG and wind are cheaper.  There's always a risk in business that someone will be able to undercut your price and take your market away.

Quote
In the absence of large-scale storage (or a highly geographically diversified grid) this is always going to be a problem, even more if there is major capacity overbuild to increase the renewables production during low wind/sun days.

In some cases it might be cheaper to overbuild than to store.  I found ERCOt hourly demand and wind generation for 2014.  I simplified it to daily averages and assumed enough 'one day' storage to even out supply/demand on a daily basis. 

Then I calculated the number of days when the average annual production did not meet the daily demand.  206 days.

Next I 'overbuilt' 100% (2x).  The number of underprovided days dropped to 71.

Then I 'overbuilt' by 200% (3x) and the number dropped to 32.

Suppose all Texas had to work with was onshore wind in the Panhandle.  And suppose wind drops to $0.02/kWh, unsubsidized (it may be going lower).  Texas could build 3x as much wind and cover all but 32 days a year.  Their cost would be $0.06/kWh - about the cost of CCNG.

By the time one throws in solar and coastal/offshore wind Texas might be able to build an all wind/solar grid  with only enough storage to even out 24 hour cycle supply/demand differences.  No 2, 3, 14 day storage needed.

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1786 on: June 29, 2017, 08:31:54 PM »
I think that non-sunny Northern Europe is a different problem to Texas, unless they extend their grid to North Africa (non-synchronous wind, and solar) and Scandinavia (hydro). Until then the sheer scale of the storage necessary will be a limiting factor. The issues become very place-specific in the absence of large-scale grids.

I would have thought that a careful mix of capacity payments and per unit of electricity supplied payments should be able to support the required overbuilding.

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1787 on: June 29, 2017, 09:16:17 PM »
As long as the builder has a return on investment with high enough probability, they'll build.

"Guaranteed" payments are never actually guaranteed anyway: the entity you sign a contract with could go bankrupt and you don't get paid, or you could get run over by a bus in which case you don't care whether you get paid.

A careful mix of capacity payments is one way to support overbuilding. High spot prices are another way (then you recoup your investment on those few days when electricity has a positive price).

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1788 on: June 29, 2017, 09:25:58 PM »
I think that non-sunny Northern Europe is a different problem to Texas, unless they extend their grid to North Africa (non-synchronous wind, and solar) and Scandinavia (hydro). Until then the sheer scale of the storage necessary will be a limiting factor. The issues become very place-specific in the absence of large-scale grids.

I would have thought that a careful mix of capacity payments and per unit of electricity supplied payments should be able to support the required overbuilding.

Northern Europe is already connected to much of the rest of Europe.  Europe has very good solar resources without extending to North Africa.  And Europe is already connected to North Africa.

Now all these connections, while in place, are not large enough to move the amount of electricity that the system might want to move when fully changed to RE.  But however we replace fossil fuels we will have a lot of building to do.  And even if climate change were not an issue we would have a large building task ahead as all (almost all?) the generation now online will be worn out by 2050.  We're going to replace coal, gas and nuclear plants with something regardless whether we take climate change seriously or not.

I suspect we'll see a lot of our electricity pre-purchased via PPAs going forward.  A sales contract running for 20 to 25 years creates a lot of price security for utilities and a lot of revenue security for generation facility suppliers. 

As we reach demand saturation additional wind/solar generators my receive higher per-kWh rates because some/much of their potential production won't be used.  They may get paid based on their potential generation, not on the non-curtailed amount.

Utilities may have to have some capacity contracts to cover unusual circumstances (like suddenly losing two or more reactors as happened in San Diego).


crandles

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1789 on: June 30, 2017, 12:31:10 PM »
Those animals laying down out there - are they the ones that ran themselves to death trying to stay in the blade shade?
 :P
These ones, I guess, made calculations using the sun angle and wind direction before choosing their blade shadow.

PV might offer even more shade at such a location.

Looks like they did make the calculation and decided to locate close to base to have to move less. However sometime soon that calculation may reverse and the greater food availability further away may become an attraction that is worth having to move a little bit more for.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1790 on: June 30, 2017, 08:19:09 PM »
Beekeepers Sweeten Solar Sites With the 'Tesla of Honey'
Quote
The SolarWise garden in Ramsey, Minnesota, doesn't look especially cutting edge as solar farms go. But in April, it quietly achieved a milestone: It became the first U.S. solar facility to host commercial beekeeping. The apiary is part of an effort to rethink how land for clean energy can be used to supply more than just kilowatts.

Instead of the gravel or turf grass that typically underlies a solar array, the one in Ramsey has low-growing, pollinator-friendly plants and 15 hives installed by Bolton Bees, a local honey producer about 35 miles away in St. Paul. Two other solar apiaries followed in the state, with more on the way....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/06/chasing-genius-solar-honey-pollinator-friendly-energy/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Neven

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1791 on: June 30, 2017, 09:53:25 PM »
Now that's a great idea!
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E. Smith

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1792 on: July 05, 2017, 04:01:59 PM »
There are days when I am encouraged by news on renewable energy. There are days when I am not. Links is :-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/05/g20-public-finance-for-fossil-fuels-is-four-times-more-than-renewables
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numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1793 on: July 05, 2017, 05:10:48 PM »
Now that's a great idea!

It's a sweet idea, indeed.

BenB

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1794 on: July 05, 2017, 05:53:20 PM »
I think that non-sunny Northern Europe is a different problem to Texas, unless they extend their grid to North Africa (non-synchronous wind, and solar) and Scandinavia (hydro).

This is already happening. Existing HVDC interconnectors between Norway and the rest of Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skagerrak_(power_transmission_system) (Skagerrak: Norway - Denmark, 1632 MW)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorNed (NorNed: Norway - Holland, 700MW)

Under construction/planned:

http://www.statnett.no/en/Projects/NORDLINK/ (Norway - Germany: 1 400 MW)
http://northconnect.no/ (NorthConnect, Norway - UK, 1400MW)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Link (North Sea Link, Norway - UK, 1400 MW)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorGer (NorGer, Norway - Germany, 1400 MW)

Some of these should be completed within a couple of years. There are also connections between Sweden and Denmark/Germany, and other HVDC cables being planned.

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1795 on: July 07, 2017, 04:50:56 PM »
Italy is doing the same with France. Still seems relatively small versus the scale of daily electricity usage.

Interconnector Italia and Terna ink a deal for a €415m project (italy)

https://www.enerdata.net/publications/daily-energy-news/interconnector-italia-and-terna-ink-deal-415m-project-italy.html



Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1796 on: July 08, 2017, 11:59:50 PM »
No, fields of solar panels do not have to be boring rectangles.

China just built a 250-acre solar farm shaped like a giant panda
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-panda-solar-power-plant-2017-7
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Milret2

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1797 on: July 09, 2017, 12:32:55 AM »
At some point in the future I will either be getting a model 3 (the cheap version of Musk's all electric vehicles), as I deposited 1K the day he announced it on the internet, or maybe a model S which I test drove yesterday secondary to a scheduling mistake by me on the internet (the dealership I made the mistake with was VERY understanding, did NOT try to up sell me, and did let me drive that model S .. if they sold used Teslas I would go with them today, I was that impressed by them .. they are housed in Santa Barbara and it looks like I would probably have to go down to LA to get a used model S).

The model S was easy to drive ( I have driven Toyota Prius cars for over fifteen years) , amazingly powerful (I did not ask what battery it had), very nice looking inside and out, and reasonably quiet on the road. It had a  radar driving system (a real plus for me as I lost an eye on the driver side of my car and have some trouble accessing cars coming up on the left side since that) as well as being able to go full automatic driving (kinda scary the first time you take your hands off the wheel driving on the freeway at 65-70 miles an hour near Santa Barbara) which was very neat. One has to be a little careful as, when you are driving, it is VERY easy to be going MUCH faster then you think.

Anyhow ... I am a Musk fan, own some of his Tesla stock (wild ride but it is a rather small part of my total port and I intend a LONG term hold), and deeply admire how he thinks. Here is an article from yesterday that you folks may enjoy.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tesla-south-australia-20170310-story.html

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1798 on: July 09, 2017, 12:34:07 AM »
No, fields of solar panels do not have to be boring rectangles.

China just built a 250-acre solar farm shaped like a giant panda
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-panda-solar-power-plant-2017-7

Love it!

The 21st Century version of the Nazca Lines.



Show it to Trump and perhaps he will command Secretary Good Hair to construct a gigantic solar eagle.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 12:48:00 AM by Bob Wallace »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #1799 on: July 09, 2017, 04:29:36 AM »
Australia:  Great opinion piece on how a big truth will soon destroy many lies.

Elon Musk's big battery brings reality crashing into a post-truth world
Quote
...
Renewable energy, which obviously wins on emissions, is now beating coal on cost. What’s more, with an energy grid managed effectively by people who want renewables to succeed, it is no less reliable than fossil fuels. The fact that arch-conservative, Cory Bernardi, was recently revealed to have installed rooftop solar panels demonstrates that these people do not even believe their own rhetoric. They have just chosen to throw truth onto the fire of climate change for political reasons.
...
Musk’s gambit closes this book. He has brought reality crashing in.

Within 100 days [sic]*, there will be a huge battery system making South Australia’s energy grid clean, affordable and reliable, and benefitting the eastern states along with it.

All the talk of building new coal-fired power stations, or a Snowy Hydro 2.0, no longer sounds vaguely “truthy”. It sounds ridiculous. It sounds silly. It sounds like old men yelling at clouds.

This won’t suddenly bring back a cherished (and somewhat mythological) era of truth in politics. But it will have a real, demonstrable impact. It will help. We all owe deep gratitude to those who have made it happen.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/07/elon-musks-big-battery-brings-reality-crashing-into-a-post-truth-world

*Musk's guarantee is completion within 100 days from the grid interconnect agreement signing, not from the recently announced contract signing.
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