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Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1200 on: October 01, 2016, 09:56:34 PM »
during the 30th there was some movement in the water area to the left but with the temperature dropping below -10 overnight there was no further movement, i.e. it has frozen into a closed ice cover.
worldview shows the ice moving away from the northern islands but also moving west again. Here we can also see ice forming on exposed water.

 

Rick Aster

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1201 on: October 12, 2016, 10:33:27 PM »
A NASA Earth Observatory post from Alek Petty describes difficulty in deploying ITPs, apparently within the last week, with no available ice to attach them to:

Quote
The Woods Hole team tried for a quick installation of one of their ice tethered profilers (ITPs) –an ocean surface water profiler- on a thick ice floe that was only around 164 feet (50 meters) in diameter, but the ice was too ridged and porous to be suitable and the operation was quickly abandoned. They instead resorted to deploying two of their ITPs directly into the ocean from the side of the ship . . .

The End of Ice
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/fromthefield/2016/10/12/the-end-of-ice/

Eli81

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1202 on: October 13, 2016, 11:33:15 AM »
I'm very pleased to see that our favorite buoy is still functional and beaming beautiful pictures and data to us.

It looks as though the Ozone instrument has been on the fritz for a couple weeks, and now the CO2 instrument has joined it. This actually appears to be a good thing, as these are a very significant draw on the system; about 7W - more than everything else combined. Of course on the other hand the fact that instruments are failing is concerning...

The batteries are doing much better without these loads though. I'm hopeful we'll continue to see connectivity until the sun disappears entirely. As long as the AGM battery voltages stays above the Lithium battery voltage, the unit seems to stay booted....

Jim Hunt

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1203 on: October 18, 2016, 02:09:45 AM »
A pretty picture from O-Buoy 14:
"The most revolutionary thing one can do always is to proclaim loudly what is happening" - Rosa Luxemburg

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1204 on: November 07, 2016, 06:22:43 PM »
Amazingly we are still getting reports from O-Buoy 14. The battery voltage is slowly dwindling now as there isn't enough light to recharge it.

I've been very interested to watch the path of the buoy as it has made its way along the Parry Channel. Is this a typical path for ice each year, pushing down from the CAB into the archipelago?

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1205 on: November 07, 2016, 06:44:02 PM »
Amazingly we are still getting reports from O-Buoy 14. The battery voltage is slowly dwindling now as there isn't enough light to recharge it.

I've been very interested to watch the path of the buoy as it has made its way along the Parry Channel. Is this a typical path for ice each year, pushing down from the CAB into the archipelago?

that ice came through the main channel as did the buoy with it, this is not the ice that came through CAA originating in the CAB, the early part of that ice melted out in the channel while the later part got stuck and froze inside the CAA. of course this does not appley to 100% of all the ice but generally it can be described that way.

EDIT: this is without looking up the exact border between CAB and beaufort sea that will be around that and some ice, coming from the CAB indeed made the turn around the cape and entered perry through it's main western entrance.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 10:22:17 PM by magnamentis »

oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1206 on: November 07, 2016, 08:10:46 PM »
Amazingly we are still getting reports from O-Buoy 14.
Amazing indeed!

Eli81

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1207 on: November 08, 2016, 10:57:17 AM »
I thought for sure it was going to crash when the Ozone instrument fired off today, but it managed to stay booted! Rather than being dead,  looks like perhaps the Ozone instruments schedule has been reduced to save battery power?

They need to update the movie...

Here's to hoping for some sun, if it still even rises there..

Edit 11/11/2016: And into the deep darkness of winter we slip..

I'll put down $20 that the Buoy does successfully wake up this coming spring, because damnit, I need something to be hopeful for right now. Do not know what the chances of that actually are though.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 05:11:27 AM by Eli81 »

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1208 on: November 14, 2016, 06:30:05 PM »
I'd be astounded (but thrilled) if we started seeing data again from O-Buoy 14. Even if it does wake up, will anyone be listening? Will the website still be up?

It's a serious bummer that the halt in data from the last active O-Buoy happened just after the U.S. elections. It's a coincidence, of course, but it makes me wonder what sources of data -- especially from government agencies like NOAA and NASA -- will go silent in the years ahead due to funding cuts or gag orders.

TerryM

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1209 on: November 14, 2016, 08:37:01 PM »
It's a serious bummer that the halt in data from the last active O-Buoy happened just after the U.S. elections. It's a coincidence, of course, but it makes me wonder what sources of data -- especially from government agencies like NOAA and NASA -- will go silent in the years ahead due to funding cuts or gag orders.
~Is that a conspiracy theory, or are you remembering Canada under Harper?


Terry

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1210 on: November 14, 2016, 09:31:11 PM »
~Is that a conspiracy theory, or are you remembering Canada under Harper?

Probably not the right place on the forum for this discussion, but there is certainly historical precedent. I really have no idea what will happen, but I'm worried about it.

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1211 on: November 14, 2016, 10:07:07 PM »
~Is that a conspiracy theory, or are you remembering Canada under Harper?

Probably not the right place on the forum for this discussion, but there is certainly historical precedent. I really have no idea what will happen, but I'm worried about it.

at least the gagging order part is totally in the range of what's possible and what has been done in the past, no theory needed while switching off boys that would gonna sleep anyways within a few days is not very probably IMO.

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1212 on: November 14, 2016, 11:29:52 PM »
Oh! I definitely did not mean to suggest someone turned off the buoy. The way I understand it, the study was complete, so there was no need to deploy additional O-Buoys -- it had nothing to do with politics. It's sad though, because I've enjoyed looking at the data and images from these buoys over the last several years. I'm just wondering what other sources of data (buoys, satellites, etc.) might be discontinued, or cancelled during planning and development, for reasons that are political.

There was a bill introduced a couple of years ago, for instance, by an Oklahoma congressman whose name has come up recently as a potential candidate for NASA administrator. The bill required NOAA to prioritize activities related to hazardous weather prediction -- and the idea was that this would pull money away from climate research. The bill stalled in the Senate, but it's the kind of thing I expect to see in the years ahead.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 05:17:51 PM by woodstea »

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1213 on: November 15, 2016, 12:43:18 AM »
Oh! I definitely did not mean to suggest someone turned off the buoy. The way I understand it, the study was complete, so there was no need to deploy additional O-Buoys -- it had nothing to do with politics. It's sad though, because I've enjoyed looking at the data and images from these buoys over the last several years. I'm just wondering what other sources of data (buoys, satellites, etc.) might be discontinued, or cancelled during planning and development, for reasons that are political.

There was a bill introduced a couple of years ago, for instance, by an Oklahoma congressman who's name has come up recently as a potential candidate for NASA administrator. The bill required NOAA to prioritize activities related to hazardous weather prediction -- and the idea was that this would pull money away from climate research. The bill stalled in the Senate, but it's the kind of thing I expect to see in the years ahead.

sure, just an exchange of thought and i mentioned my 2 cents only because it was mentioned :-)

enjoy further

cheers :D  ;)  8)

Adam Ash

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1214 on: November 15, 2016, 02:41:25 AM »
I would have thought that work involved in predicting global temperature increases above 2 degrees C would fit that definition of identifying threats from hazardous weather quite well!

It is said (and it seems likely) that the refugee crisis in the Levant is due to a large degree to climate-change-caused drought.  The threat to national security arising from mass emigration from areas where climate has made living problematic is well worth 'predicting', as ensuring it is nice for those folk to stay at home reduces the need to build walls around the USA to keep them out.

So hopefully NASA and NOAA can re-frame their work focus to suit the different viewpoints of the incoming government, without throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

ghoti

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1215 on: February 14, 2017, 04:41:13 AM »
Obuoy 14 produced data today! Well a blip on battery voltage and a bit of GPS info. I was expecting sunlight to reach its general area within a week or so. I guess there was some light.

Eli81

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1216 on: February 14, 2017, 11:08:40 AM »
That's amazing! I had been checking every day too, but didn't over the weekend. Happy to know it's still somewhat functional! Let's hope it stays that way, and we can look forward to some beautiful pictures this coming melt season.

Edit: It uploaded a picture too!

I think you can just make out the horizon through the ice on the lens...
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 11:15:47 AM by Eli81 »

oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1217 on: February 14, 2017, 01:28:31 PM »
Truly amazing. This one's a survivor.

josh-j

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1218 on: February 14, 2017, 06:54:57 PM »
A hearty "welcome back" to OBuoy 14, and thank you to everyone for their interesting posts in this thread. I followed 14's journey through the melt season and was sad when it finally turned off.

Well done to the buoy for making it through, and to whoever was involved in constructing these buoys.  :)

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1219 on: February 14, 2017, 08:52:40 PM »
Oh yeah! I'd been hoping it would wake up again. The picture is particularly encouraging.

If the GPS location is correct then it looks like it's continued a little ways down the Parry Channel to the east during the winter. Looks like roughly 5 hours of daylight at that location today (http://suncalc.net), though it would be pretty low angle.

I'm curious about how the wake up process happens -- under what conditions the computer boots up, etc.

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1220 on: February 15, 2017, 02:00:22 AM »
great and it would be so great to have those in large numbers :-)

must be a romantic buoy since it's valentines day

cheers

Iceismylife

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1221 on: February 15, 2017, 02:13:25 AM »
14 on the 14th.  Good on it I'd been pulling for it.  If it makes it out of the garlic press then I hope they refurbish it and put it back to work.  But a small second year battery would be a good addition. Keep it going through the second winter.

Eli81

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1222 on: February 15, 2017, 12:59:26 PM »
Oh yeah! I'd been hoping it would wake up again. The picture is particularly encouraging.

If the GPS location is correct then it looks like it's continued a little ways down the Parry Channel to the east during the winter. Looks like roughly 5 hours of daylight at that location today (http://suncalc.net), though it would be pretty low angle.

I'm curious about how the wake up process happens -- under what conditions the computer boots up, etc.

Probably pretty simple actually..  Power management ICs usually have "power good" signals. So, solar/battery voltage powers the solar charge controller and power management IC. When sun hits the panels, these aux systems come online again.

When the power has been good long enough(milliseconds to minutes?), it turns the SSR for the computer on. If voltage falls too low, it turns the computer off. Of course this is all just conjecture, there are probably a dozen ways you could do it, but it's pretty basic stuff. Obviously the goal is to avoid "brownout" conditions where the computer could malfunction, and also to provide some hysteresis. Without such a sceheme, it would be possible to get caught in a loop where there's enough power to boot up, but not maintain operation.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 01:09:54 PM by Eli81 »

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1223 on: February 15, 2017, 04:53:27 PM »
14 on the 14th.  Good on it I'd been pulling for it.  If it makes it out of the garlic press then I hope they refurbish it and put it back to work.  But a small second year battery would be a good addition. Keep it going through the second winter.

I'd love to see that but the O-Buoy program has been completed and I doubt there is any funding for retrieval. The last deployments were in the fall of 2015. I'm happy to see that they are at least sticking with this one (and keeping the website up) while it's still sending data. My hope is that it will make it all the way out to Labrador Sea and successfully navigate the Northwest Passage.

There are a lot of other buoys out there, but none that I know of with a webcam. I wonder if we could convince any of those programs to include cameras in their future designs. We had such a great view of the melt and refreeze last year.

Iceismylife

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1224 on: February 16, 2017, 04:50:18 AM »
14 on the 14th.  Good on it I'd been pulling for it.  If it makes it out of the garlic press then I hope they refurbish it and put it back to work.  But a small second year battery would be a good addition. Keep it going through the second winter.

I'd love to see that but the O-Buoy program has been completed and I doubt there is any funding for retrieval. The last deployments were in the fall of 2015. I'm happy to see that they are at least sticking with this one (and keeping the website up) while it's still sending data. My hope is that it will make it all the way out to Labrador Sea and successfully navigate the Northwest Passage.

There are a lot of other buoys out there, but none that I know of with a webcam. I wonder if we could convince any of those programs to include cameras in their future designs. We had such a great view of the melt and refreeze last year.
spam them with this thread and ask them if they want to star in it?

Watching_from_Canberra

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1225 on: February 20, 2017, 07:49:11 AM »
Seems like another blip of life today.  6 days to collect enough energy for 2hrs operation.

Watching_from_Canberra

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1226 on: February 21, 2017, 07:43:44 AM »
OB14 seems to be in the vicinity of the cross marked in the attached pic.  Looks like it might be on the move soon...



magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1227 on: February 21, 2017, 02:47:50 PM »
OB14 seems to be in the vicinity of the cross marked in the attached pic.  Looks like it might be on the move soon...

thanks for the info while pics should always have a size (cover and area) that allows others to know where it is. like this the only thing that remains is that everyone has to find the spot by himself, hence the image does not serve the intended purpuse to show us where the buoy is.

this issue is widely spread across the forum, too many images don't tell the uninitiated the whereabouts.

bairgon

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1228 on: February 21, 2017, 03:46:10 PM »
I've been following that area using the compressed palette links - try zooming out from https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov/?p=arctic&l=Land_Mask,MODIS_Aqua_Brightness_Temp_Band31_Night(palette=rainbow_1,min=232.5,max=280.6,squash)&t=2017-02-20&z=3&v=-1905752.8036392964,-1186673.579851776,-922712.8036392964,-679793.5798517758

The ice in that channel is collapsing and moving down to Baffin Bay - hence the comment about the buoy being on the move soon, I guess.

Watching_from_Canberra

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1229 on: February 21, 2017, 03:57:32 PM »
Location of OB14 is evident from the project page (posted previously in this thread):

http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#overview/gpstracks

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1230 on: February 21, 2017, 11:24:20 PM »
The view was a little clearer in today's last pic.

Pmt111500

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1231 on: February 22, 2017, 06:55:07 AM »
Looks like thick first year ice or 'old ice' for the buoy location. Camera possibly pointing west..(not north of course...time and sun). Old ice nearby to south too but you really can't tell the difference if it's not thick enough, for all the snow.

I've forgotten what the numbers meant. 140cm thickness for B ? You could drive an oversized truck over that one.

(modified: the numerical code www.ec.gc.ca/glaces-ice/default.asp?lang=En&n=2CE448E2-1&offset=6&toc=show#Egg
says i think it is over 120 cm thick. My guess this is an operational limit for some smaller icebreakers, why it would make sense to stop the classification here. The massive arctic icebreakers may well sail on even thicker ice, but i think assisting other vessels becomes rathet impossible here.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 07:22:31 AM by Pmt111500 »

Jim Hunt

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1232 on: February 22, 2017, 01:40:38 PM »
See this sequence of images, which reveal the sort of ice O-Buoy 14 became frozen into:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/arctic-sea-ice-images/winter-201617-images/#OBuoy14
"The most revolutionary thing one can do always is to proclaim loudly what is happening" - Rosa Luxemburg

Pmt111500

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1233 on: February 22, 2017, 02:21:25 PM »
Thanks Jim Hunt. So the buoy is likely on the side of old ice. The ice seen in the latest images would (rough estimate) be 30-120cm thick so now it is at least 150-240cm (thickest ones). Most of it looks like 60 so about 2m is my guess for median minimum (+snow which currently covers  everything) . Hopefully the buoy#14 stays operational at least to July, and not get wedged on some ridge. Looking good now.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 03:10:28 PM by Pmt111500 »

ghoti

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1234 on: February 23, 2017, 07:07:01 PM »
Very slightly more definition visible in today's photo from Obuoy 14. Temperature is still about -35C. The buoy is now somewhere between the northern tip of Victoria Island and Prince of Wales Island.

Looks like this buoy plans to visit Wayne in Resolute this spring.

Jim Hunt

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1235 on: February 25, 2017, 07:47:08 AM »
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 05:23:39 PM by Jim Hunt »
"The most revolutionary thing one can do always is to proclaim loudly what is happening" - Rosa Luxemburg

Pmt111500

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1236 on: February 25, 2017, 07:53:35 AM »
A beautiful day in the Northwest Passage:

Only little snow, my guess max 10 inches.

Jim Hunt

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1237 on: February 25, 2017, 07:15:27 PM »
"The most revolutionary thing one can do always is to proclaim loudly what is happening" - Rosa Luxemburg

Andreas T

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1238 on: February 26, 2017, 03:57:50 PM »
with the sun in view later yesterday we can establish which way the camera is looking: at 103 deg W local time of the shot is 15:20.
I have marked the approximate position in worldview IR, which shows it is well away from any recent cracks. I expect this area to be quite stable for some months, which makes it likely to survive into the melt season but also not be very exciting to watch.

Eli81

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1239 on: February 27, 2017, 02:36:02 AM »
Beautiful :)

be cause

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1240 on: February 27, 2017, 02:49:48 AM »
thank you Eli81 .. stunning ! .
Conflict is the root of all evil , for being blind it does not see whom it attacks . Yet it always attacks the Son Of God , and the Son of God is you .

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1241 on: February 27, 2017, 06:09:25 PM »
thank you Eli81 .. stunning ! .

yeah, i'm somewhat "fond" of this buoy, no clue if it can be said that way :-) but this buoy often helps to make my days in one or another way.

just a pity that there are not more of them left

jplotinus

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1242 on: February 28, 2017, 01:43:49 PM »
Better hope the Planet X, Nibiru, doomsday folks don't see the 2/27 o-buoy 14 image.
If they do, they are going to have a field day of doomsday prediction, I'm afraid.
😳

Archimid

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1243 on: February 28, 2017, 03:03:40 PM »
Yeah, this 0-buoy 14 reminds me of the Opportunity Mars rover. You just got to love their resilience.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Eli81

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1244 on: March 01, 2017, 06:18:59 AM »
What are the chances the movie gets updated this year?

Someone should set up a script to download all of the pictures as they are uploaded. They may be lost otherwise? I would do it but I don't know how. I forgot to grab the last picture of the day last night, and am regretting it.

Getting some dusk action now, as the days lengthen and the batteries charge...

Pretty cold at the buoy, almost -50C.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 06:24:09 AM by Eli81 »

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1245 on: March 01, 2017, 06:42:19 AM »
thank you Eli81 .. stunning ! .

yeah, i'm somewhat "fond" of this buoy, no clue if it can be said that way :-) but this buoy often helps to make my days in one or another way.

just a pity that there are not more of them left
"....and the appointed time came for God to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." Revelation 11:18.

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1246 on: March 01, 2017, 06:39:23 PM »


i don't get it, perhaps my language skills are not good enough, please help me share the fun LOL

perhaps via pm if it's too much OT

cheers

Tony Mcleod

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1247 on: March 02, 2017, 02:19:38 AM »


i don't get it, perhaps my language skills are not good enough, please help me share the fun LOL

perhaps via pm if it's too much OT

cheers

Play on words. Buoy and boy, fond of that buoy.

Eli81

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1248 on: March 02, 2017, 04:37:48 AM »
Much less sun today, but what we got came late, so we were able to stay booted until about the same time as yesterday.


Archimid

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1249 on: March 02, 2017, 03:22:17 PM »
This xkcd is about the Spirit mars rover, but just as applicable to dear o-buoy 14.

https://xkcd.com/695/
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 03:32:20 PM by Archimid »
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.