What the Buoys are telling

[lifeblack]

The links for the 2015A and B cams work if you change ipab to iabp for the first part of the address

[Jim Hunt]

The links for the 2015A and B cams work if you change ipab to iabp for the first part of the address

I tried that not long ago without success, but it does indeed work now. 2015A seems to have gone missing!

[plinius]

phantastic, thanks lifeblack.
2015A had a nice tilt in the last image...
2015B has something really interesting in front: left rim of the image looks like a very large tilted ice floe. A bit weird though - how is this configuration stable?

[Andreas T]

plinius,if you look at the images from 05:50 on the 25th you see the tilted floe sitting on top of a submerged floe.
Looking back through the 2015A images shows that the camera buoy has drifted and turned so it wasn't looking at 2015A anymore but then 2015A  drifted back into view. That 2015A is so mobile indicates that there are gaps in the ice all the way to the bottom. The ice thickness data from 2015A have probably stopped

[plinius]

well, suppose the only half-way stable configuration is to have a floe crashed under the elevated side of the tilted floe. Still remarkable!

[Andreas T]

for comparison with the buoy camera1(formerly) at IMB2015A
Here is a view of its position (70.61 / -149.51)  on the 26.06.
Since it  was probably positioned on a thicker floe to last longer it may well be in the lighter bit in the middle of the pink circle.
see for yourself here
http://1.usa.gov/1LvLwAg

[Andreas T]

here is camera1 image for comparison, I picked one slightly later for better light conditions

I hope that can  help to interpret similar satellite images

[Andreas T]

today's view at USIABP camera2 juxtaposed with one 12 days ago
I expect this won't last till september

[Nightvid Cole]

I have never seen quite as bizarre shaped an ice floe as this one:

[epiphyte]

I have never seen quite as bizarre shaped an ice floe as this one:

Looks as though its freeboard has been slowly rising , or maybe tipping - (top melt/draining?), but also that it's melting in contact with surface water(slightly slower bottom melt?). Either way, it's looking pretty toasty...

[Andreas T]

I don't have time to post another snap from worldview but it looks to me like IMB2015E is at the ice edge in the fram strait. The edge is swirling about and the water to the east is visibly warmer on the IR channel. Bottom melt is accelerating again and I think it is soon going to be ice free.

[Siffy]

Err is this really showing the temperature near the buoy as 4C? Blimey.

[trebuh]

Err is this really showing the temperature near the buoy as 4C? Blimey.

What was the wind speed then? I guess close to zero.

[plinius]

relatively weak, but that's quite besides the point. When it was still a bit stronger it was turning through from about 120 degrees to 300. Connected to that a nice dip in humidity, so it is easy to figure out (consistent with the local pressure pattern) that there was a slight Foehn like effect from wind coming down from the hills of north-east Greenland. The then weaker wind is for me rather an indication that the inversion revived and subsequently the temperature fell again.
Not too unusual with the buoy being just a couple km away from the landmass.

[Andreas T]

I missed a closer encounter yesterday, there are some pretty high (and correspondingly thick) ridges (or rather chunks of them) drifting past the camera of Obuoy9.
The position of the sun confirms that the azimuth of 150 deg means looking roughly southsouth west (I'm not a sailor) doesn't that mean the angle is measured counterclockwise? can somebody explain why? Can we expect Greenland to come into view again as it drifts past its north east corner or is that too flat to be seen on the horizon?

[helorime]

It's in better light now.  I wonder how high those ice-blocks are.  I know that the obuoy cameras distort perspective so they are closer and smaller than they look, but still it's interesting.

[Rubikscube]

It's starting to look pretty barren around 2015B, and looking quite vulnerable to wind/wave action.

[Andreas T]

It's in better light now.  I wonder how high those ice-blocks are.  I know that the obuoy cameras distort perspective so they are closer and smaller than they look, but still it's interesting.

It seems to me that regardless of the likely wideangle lens the top of the tall block must be above the camera position to be seen above the horizon like it is. The camera sits more than two meters above the ice according to http://www.o-buoy.org/?page_id=38
and http://www.o-buoy.org/?page_id=326
should they not be taller than they look if they look further away than they are?

[Andreas T]

That ablation stake at camera2 (formerly IMB2015B) is looking a bit precarious. When seeing how the edge of the  floes in the background is undercut by lateral melt I expect that stake to disappear pretty soon. The one at 2015A fell over when 1m showed above the ice, this one is at 0.8m

[Andreas T]

as a caution to those expecting to see the effects of warm weather immediately here are two images from Obuoy9 separated by two days of sun and above zero temperatures:

[plinius]

I'd to the contrary caution against just looking at an image. The only thing your eye can discern is structural changes.

Look at that sequence:
http://greatwhitecon.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2015cam2_20150527.jpg
http://greatwhitecon.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2015Bcam-20150609.jpg
http://iabp.apl.washington.edu/camera2.jpg

(kudos to Jim Hunt having those wonderful resources on his webpage www.greatwhitecon.info )

If you did not have the ablation stake and for a moment neglect the dissolving ice floe, you would probably conclude that over the past months nothing has happened to the surface.
If not that stick was magically growing out of it...

[Rubikscube]

Obuoy9 can with pretty good certainty be pinned down to this floe of extra stubborn MYI. And notice how much difference there is on 2015B's ablation stake in the two posts above, approximately 7 cm (3 in) of surface melt in two days.

[anotheramethyst]

as a caution to those expecting to see the effects of warm weather immediately here are two images from Obuoy9 separated by two days of sun and above zero temperatures:

there's a substantial chunk of ice that disappeared from the horizon line, too.

[plinius]

I'd say, we should make a bet when the giant north pole melt pond finally drains/breaks through (would also finally halt its impressive expansion):


In my naive experience the largest I have seen so far. And looks pretty deep now.

[Jim Hunt]

In my naive experience the largest I have seen so far. And looks pretty deep now.

You haven't seen this one before then?

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/arctic-sea-ice-images/summer-2013-images/#NPEO2

[plinius]

W O W, indeed not seen before! So is this thing then what is called Santas Lake?

[Yuha]

And it grew a lot deeper before it drained:

[Peter Ellis]

Yup, in that picture it's about 70cm deep. 

http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/WebCams.html

[oren]

WOW

[Andreas T]

as a caution to those expecting to see the effects of warm weather immediately here are two images from Obuoy9 separated by two days of sun and above zero temperatures:

there's a substantial chunk of ice that disappeared from the horizon line, too.

The substantial chunk drifted off to the left i.e. towards Fram strait. I found it surprising at first how different floes move at very different speeds, but clicking through the Worldview images http://1.usa.gov/1H8gFEA shows how that happens when there is plenty of open water.

[pikaia]

Land Ahoy!

[Peter Ellis]

Looking back through the records of all the buoys placed at the North Pole camps, my impression is that surface melt (as detected by sonar) started almost a month earlier this year than previous years, including 2012!

Is it possible to grab the data from these buoys and make a superimposed graph of this?  Not sure if there are enough years of data for a really meaningful comparison, but still interesting nevertheless.

[Andreas T]

Google earth is not clear enough to identify the exact  place, we need Espen to give us a name for what we see
since pikaias image is updating I link to the one posted by helorime

Greenland from my favorite buoy this summer, obuoy 9 passing very close to the northeastern tip of the island.

edited for wrong image.

[Jim Hunt]

Looking back through the records of all the buoys placed at the North Pole camps, my impression is that surface melt (as detected by sonar) started almost a month earlier this year than previous years, including 2012!

Is it possible to grab the data from these buoys and make a superimposed graph of this?  Not sure if there are enough years of data for a really meaningful comparison, but still interesting nevertheless.

It's not superimposed, but graphs of the data are available. For starters see the assorted subpages under:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/ice-mass-balance-buoys/

and if you're really keen there's plenty of raw data downloadable from:

http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/buoysum.htm

I might try what you suggest when I have spare moment, but that's unlikely to be for a few weeks!

[Andreas T]

Obuoy9 now definitely looks melting, maybe it needed time to show the effect or maybe the stronger wind combined with high temperatures makes the difference. Also striking how a thin layer of fog dropped the temperature on 7/8th July.

[Nightvid Cole]

Obuoy9 now definitely looks melting, maybe it needed time to show the effect or maybe the stronger wind combined with high temperatures makes the difference. Also striking how a thin layer of fog dropped the temperature on 7/8th July.

Did the fog drop the temperature, or did the lower temperature cause the fog to form from the moisture in the air?

[Andreas T]

Obuoy9 now definitely looks melting, maybe it needed time to show the effect or maybe the stronger wind combined with high temperatures makes the difference. Also striking how a thin layer of fog dropped the temperature on 7/8th July.

Did the fog drop the temperature, or did the lower temperature cause the fog to form from the moisture in the air?

In the light of discussions elsewhere the point I find interesting is that under the same high pressure system without substantial cloud the air temperature at sea level dropped by more than 5 degC. Same July insolation down to a fog layer which left individual floes visible on MODIS images. Yes there was a change of wind direction and fog started at low sun angle but at midday it did not lift and all those W/m² couldn't raise temps.
image is from 19:00 local time but it looked like this all day

[Andreas T]

Imb2015E is at lat 78.39 long 5.35W which looks on Worldview http://1.usa.gov/1ULEI5A ( contrast increased) like an area of crumbled floes. Progress south is slow at the moment but I don't expect it to get very far from here

[Andreas T]

The latest temperature info from IMB buoy 2014I:

Pos: 75.97 N, 138.23 W
Air Temp: 0.64 C
Air Pres: 1016.15 mb
Snow Depth: 0 cm
Ice Thickness: 148 cm

looking at this over a longer period makes it even stranger:
temperatures reach 8degC which I can't believe to be water temp in a melt pond especially when the earliest occurance is on the 29th May ! when there wasn't surface water to be seen from Obuoy 1. Pity it isn't pointing at  IMB2014I  which would seem the more interesting view than the profiler.
edit for clarity:
The only clear feature from my plot which starts 05/26/2015 17:00 (x axis is hours) is that earlier the lower T7 sensor shows hardly any fluctuations while T6 10cm above it does fluctuate strongly but as it becomes exposed (it was just below the ice surface at installation I think) it starts to fluctuate.
looking through the Obouy11 images available as "movie" there is some sunshine on the 29th but not as much as on the later strong fluctuation episodes.  these images are at the moment only available to the 16th June

[Andreas T]

http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2015E.htm has melted out. The telltale sign of the surface coming towards the top sounder shows it is probably bobbing around in the "briny" as  west country folk put  it

[Jim Hunt]

The telltale sign of the surface coming towards the top sounder shows it is probably bobbing around in the "briny" as  west country folk put  it

It's funny you should mention that Andreas! This from the "2015 Melting Season" thread.



One last update now required by the look of it! Whilst we're at it, here's the O-Buoy 9 (was ITP59) map as well:

[Andreas T]

this is my choice as the likely position of Obuoy9 yesterday. Current GPS location from the graph is not very precise but this floe matches the movement and turning of the buoy position as far as I can tell.
BTW why is the azimuth given at 90 deg when the camera is looking south? It took me a while to work this out from sun pos.
I still am not sure how to interpret wind direction.
an interesting detail for obsessive buoy watchers maybe, there has been a gradual change in roll for the last two weeks. Could that be a sign of surface melt tilting the camera or could the whole floe tilt as its balance in the water changes?

[Andreas T]

and another thing I find interesting is what I found when squashing the colour scale of the brightness temperature band on worldview into a 263K to 293K window http://1.usa.gov/1HXg2lg
Obuoy9 is heading back west at the moment but with the water temperature in the North East Water polynya visibly warmer than the ice this is a much healthier course for it.

[Peter Ellis]

http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2015E.htm has melted out. The telltale sign of the surface coming towards the top sounder shows it is probably bobbing around in the "briny" as  west country folk put  it

http://imb.erdc.dren.mil/2014F.htm too.

2014F thickness graph is here.

[Andreas T]

I have no idea how much Obuoy9 will be affected by this but a large chunk of land fast (since last year) ice broke loose today just west of it
[url][/http://1.usa.gov/1HXPP7Purl]

[Bruce Steele]

 I was wondering if someone might offer an explanation for what is happening at ITP WHOI 87 ?
Friv pointed it out a couple days ago but there is about 20-25 meters of surface water at about
-.8 C and it has persisted for about ten days. Bouy 87 is located over deep basin waters almost
300 kilometers offshore so upwelling seems not likely. Salinity was up for a few days but now it is fresh but unusually warm water beneath the ice. Thoughts?

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=137336

[Jim Hunt]

I was wondering if someone might offer an explanation for what is happening at ITP WHOI 87 ?

It looks to be top down rather than bottom up? My first thought would be draining melt ponds, but 20 plus meters is a lot of melt water!

[Bruce Steele]

Jim, Thanks for the comeback. ITP 82 and 85 are also on the eastern side of the Canadian Arctic Basin and they too both show warming in the fresh surface waters to similar depths but if ITP 87 isn't suffering some data glitch we are seeing something new in the three years i have been watching those
profilers. 

[Bruce Steele]

Temperature /Salinity contours from one of last years buoys show something similar to the ITP 87 surface heating but ITP 78 had made it into the Makarov Basin and the warming was in August.
 http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=132456
There isn't as much heat and it doesn't appear to make it all the way to the surface either.

[Rubikscube]

Strong surface melt reaches Beaufort and Obuoy 10 and 11. Not just freezing at night and 10-15 hours a day of temperatures sulking around 0 (such as has often been the custom), but a full 24 hour cycle with a virtually continuos streak of heavy 1-2C readings. There is no sun to shine directly on the thermometers and the surface at Obuoy11 has gone bluish.

At the NPEO cams the situation is perhaps even more interesting. The melt ponds abruptly stopped expanding when a warm air mass intruded and the sun peeked through the clouds one week ago, but according to the ablation stakes the surface is currently melting at lightning speed despite the continuing lack of ponding.