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Shared Humanity

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Re: Coal
« Reply #600 on: October 30, 2016, 05:14:57 PM »
I realize that many here view some of my comments as dreadfully pessimistic (Heck, I struggle with this at times myself.) but the fact is I am actually quite certain we have the technology and ability to prevent this rapidly approaching disaster. The point of this comment and many others that you can find sprinkled across these threads is that market forces are incapable of delivering us from a fate that is the result of rationally functioning markets. The response must occur outside of our system of capitalism and this response will necessarily disrupt the normal functioning of this system. Once we accept this reality, we are finally prepared to do what is needed.
And the task in front of us is daunting, a combination of ruthless energy conservation and power generation transformation. We need to start today.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 05:55:32 PM by Shared Humanity »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #601 on: October 30, 2016, 07:25:49 PM »
SH,

I believe the next few decades will be much more exciting than the smooth lines the EIA graph suggests.

Without dismissing their dire predictions, I think we can also permit ourselves to envision the "unthinkable" scenarios where clean energy alternatives are adopted enthusiastically (perhaps even desperately!).

Imagine a scenario where:

The 5 million or so people (in the US; more worldwide) who replace their roofs each year now replace them with solar roofs that are no more expensive than regular roofs + the cost of electricity.

Electric vehicles, and residential energy storage, ramp up exponentially. 

New buildings and dwellings are net energy positive.

Commercial energy storage smoothes the daily power curve and obviates the need for many additional power plants.

100 "gigafactories" supply the world with batteries for vehicles and commercial storage.

Hyperloops replace many high-carbon-emission trips for people and freight for distances of up to 500 miles.

Businesses and industry take up renewable energy (and efficiency) on their own, because it is cheaper than dirty energy.

Outdated and expensive coal plants continue to be closed, idled, and new construction stopped, replaced with less expensive clean energy + storage.

Petroleum use plummets as transportation (including aviation) increasingly turns electric.

Developing countries leap-frog dirty energy plants and build with smaller distributed, clean power sources and efficient homes, buildings and factories.

Nuclear... eventually is no longer needed.

"Energy clean-up" is the new big industry -- closing oil and gas wells, reclaiming mines, rocketing nuclear waste into the sun. (Hey, if you are going to spend billions on clean-up, commercial space transport is now an option.  Falcon 9 can send 4,020kg (8,860 lb) to Mars for $62 million;  Falcon Heavy numbers are 13,600 kg (29,980 lbs) for $90 million.  Obviate the need to rendezvous with a planet and land on it, and a one-way trip to the sun would likely be even cheaper.  And the sun is a gigantic nuclear reaction anyway; it won't mind.  :) )
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oren

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Re: Coal
« Reply #602 on: October 31, 2016, 12:02:12 AM »
I realize that many here view some of my comments as dreadfully pessimistic (Heck, I struggle with this at times myself.)
...
We need to start today.
Funny, but I was just about to post that you are somewhat optimistic imho (when you wrote that we have three decades).
A "Marshall Plan" could work. A "Market Forces" plan as Sigmetnow is envisioning will be too slow as its actions will not be global. I'm not against it but it won't suffice.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Coal
« Reply #603 on: October 31, 2016, 03:03:49 AM »
Quote
rocketing nuclear waste into the sun.
All we need is one peri-launch disaster, and 10s to 100s of kms2 become contaminated.  But I used to like this idea!
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Darvince

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Re: Coal
« Reply #604 on: October 31, 2016, 06:33:32 AM »
Market forces actually act extremely rapidly because the rational decision for large businesses has a single tipping point where it switches from the black option to the green option, and once that happens mass adoption follows within ten years for everyone and instantly for large businesses.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #605 on: October 31, 2016, 01:28:55 PM »
Market forces actually act extremely rapidly because the rational decision for large businesses has a single tipping point where it switches from the black option to the green option, and once that happens mass adoption follows within ten years for everyone and instantly for large businesses.

This graph. 8)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #606 on: October 31, 2016, 01:41:30 PM »
Quote
rocketing nuclear waste into the sun.
All we need is one peri-launch disaster, and 10s to 100s of kms2 become contaminated.  But I used to like this idea!

Quite true.  Would need to revisit launch sites from distant atolls in the Pacific Ocean. Not ideal, but....
Poor ocean, to have to deal with our messes!  :'(
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_Test_Site
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oren

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Re: Coal
« Reply #607 on: October 31, 2016, 03:21:11 PM »
Market forces actually act extremely rapidly because the rational decision for large businesses has a single tipping point where it switches from the black option to the green option, and once that happens mass adoption follows within ten years for everyone and instantly for large businesses.

This graph. 8)

I couldn't find this interesting image on the net, but I'm kind of guessing it is a US chart and not a global one. Could you link to the source?

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #608 on: October 31, 2016, 04:39:07 PM »
Market forces actually act extremely rapidly because the rational decision for large businesses has a single tipping point where it switches from the black option to the green option, and once that happens mass adoption follows within ten years for everyone and instantly for large businesses.

This graph. 8)

I couldn't find this interesting image on the net, but I'm kind of guessing it is a US chart and not a global one. Could you link to the source?

Perhaps Australia?
It is from an article in Renew Economy, Tracking the Next Industrial Revolution.
The graph is captioned, "Technology adoption curves for a range of modern innovations. Victorian Government"

http://reneweconomy.com.au/graph-of-the-day-where-are-we-on-the-long-road-to-ev-adoption-74731/

Edit: looks like they got it from this Vivctorian government report, page 18, where it is captioned, "Figure 8 (Top). Technology adoption curves for a range of modern innovations (New York Times 2008)":
http://economicdevelopment.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1092568/Electric-Vehicle-trial-mid-term-report.pdf

The report states:
"New technology is adopted gradually, following an ‘S-curve’, similar to those depicted in Figure 8 for a range of technologies introduced over the last century.
This process has been characterised by Rogers (1962) and Moore (1991), and forms the basis for considering the status and path forwards for the Victorian electric vehicle market (Rorke and Inbakaran 2009)."
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 05:31:23 PM by Sigmetnow »
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oren

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Re: Coal
« Reply #609 on: October 31, 2016, 07:48:57 PM »
Thanks for the source. Zooming in, I can clearly see that this graph applies to a developed country, and it does help to drive my point home: even though electricity reached 100% in that country about 60 years ago, globally electricity reaches only ~85% of people today. The same applies for many other home inventions and appliances.
On a different level, the US is shutting down coal plants while India is building many such plants.
Conclusion: tipping points are local and not global, because economics and infrastructure are different in each locale, and take-up of a new technology across the globe will not be as fast as that graph. Not even close, and not fast enough.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #610 on: October 31, 2016, 09:33:13 PM »
Thanks for the source. Zooming in, I can clearly see that this graph applies to a developed country, and it does help to drive my point home: even though electricity reached 100% in that country about 60 years ago, globally electricity reaches only ~85% of people today. The same applies for many other home inventions and appliances.
On a different level, the US is shutting down coal plants while India is building many such plants.
Conclusion: tipping points are local and not global, because economics and infrastructure are different in each locale, and take-up of a new technology across the globe will not be as fast as that graph. Not even close, and not fast enough.
Valid points -- although varying economies and infrastructures may allow adoption, just in different and likely unexpected ways.*  I looked for other examples and found this graph, which is more clearly labelled as "U.S. households."
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/04/the-100-year-march-of-technology-in-1-graph/255573/

*Edit: I'm thinking of the adoption of cell phones in poor countries in Africa, and how that led to entirely new economy for them via mobile payments.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 09:57:31 PM by Sigmetnow »
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magnamentis

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Re: Coal
« Reply #611 on: October 31, 2016, 09:37:42 PM »
Quote
rocketing nuclear waste into the sun.
All we need is one peri-launch disaster, and 10s to 100s of kms2 become contaminated.  But I used to like this idea!

perhaps once in the future when we gonna have that elevators :-) i ponder of that for decades and what you said has always put a final stop to any kind of solution of that kind till now. another idea, somewhat a middle way could be a relatively conventional highflying airplane in combo with as stratospheric launch of a carrier that would be equipped with safety gadgets like parachutes etc and then to choose the flight path carefully to avoid populated areas, but nothing convincing yet.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #612 on: November 01, 2016, 07:31:01 PM »
Coal doesn’t help the poor; it makes them poorer
Quote
A dozen international poverty and development organizations published a report last week on the impact of building new coal power plants in countries where a large percentage of the population lacks access to electricity. The report’s conclusions are strikingly counter-intuitive: on the whole, building coal power plants does little to help the poor, and often it can actually make them poorer.

Delivering electricity to those in energy poverty is certainly important. For example, household air pollution killed 4.3 million people globally in 2012; many of those lives could be saved and health improved with the use of electric stoves to replace burning wood or charcoal. However, the question remains whether coal is the best way to deliver that electricity.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2016/oct/31/coal-doesnt-help-the-poor-it-makes-them-poorer
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sidd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #613 on: November 03, 2016, 05:24:57 AM »
Scumbags. No money to pay pensions, lotsa money to buy politicians.

"Alpha Natural Resources, Arch Coal and Peabody Energy collectively poured almost $700,000 into federal races and another belly-up company, Patriot Coal, gave about $150,000 to state-level candidates."

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/report-bankrupt-coal-companies-find-ways-to-back-state-federal-candidates/429462/

sidd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #614 on: November 03, 2016, 03:55:52 PM »
Coal prices are surging back (especially in the seaborne export and metallurgical coal markets overseas) for some areas due to overly ambitious production cuts and shut-ins at 3rd rate mines in China as well as an economic recovery in the heavy industry sector (after an outright contraction late last year and earlier this year). The result is a rapidly recovering price and mines re-opening.

Shared Humanity

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Re: Coal
« Reply #615 on: November 03, 2016, 04:16:13 PM »
Coal prices are surging back (especially in the seaborne export and metallurgical coal markets overseas) for some areas due to overly ambitious production cuts and shut-ins at 3rd rate mines in China as well as an economic recovery in the heavy industry sector (after an outright contraction late last year and earlier this year). The result is a rapidly recovering price and mines re-opening.

Markets in general act rationally (not stock markets as we are driven by our emotions but real goods markets). This results in the underlying stability of the system of capitalism. Anyone who follows the swings in prices of various fossil fuels and the changes in resulting demand and heralds the decline of an industry (coal for example) as a result of a short term swing in the fortunes of an industry will always be dismayed by the inevitable rebound.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #616 on: November 03, 2016, 08:45:26 PM »
Looking past [the November elections], U.S. coal country sees millennials as key to revival
Quote
When Carissa Sellards talks to her West Virginia University friends about post-graduation plans, one dilemma keeps coming up – whether to stay in their home state or strike out for more promising opportunities elsewhere.

If recent history holds, over half of them will either not find work or leave the state, contributing to a brain drain of young talent that is pushing the state to try to reinvent its economy and break with a coal industry in long-term decline.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-westvirginia-idUSKBN12Y0Z9
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #617 on: November 08, 2016, 04:03:04 PM »
Coal Ash a Hot-Button Issue in Tight North Carolina Governors Race
Quote
Of all the environmental and climate change challenges facing North Carolina—including its vulnerability to sea level rise, the extreme flooding from Hurricane Matthew, the wisdom of drilling offshore and fracking throughout the state—the one issue Gov. Pat McCrory has struggled with most politically is coal ash.

In a tight re-election campaign against Democrat Roy Cooper, the current state attorney general, McCrory has had to spend little time defending his stance on climate change (he questions whether it is human-caused), and polls indicate his support for fracking and offshore drilling has a majority of his state's support.

But North Carolina has more coal ash impoundments on waterways near people and property than any other state and a massive spill that resulted in federal criminal charges in 2014 put the issue near the top of voters' concerns. It hasn't helped McCrory that the company responsible for that incident and all 33 of the coal ash dumps at 14 sites in North Carolina is McCrory's longtime former employer and political donor, Duke Energy.
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/27102016/north-carolina-governor-pat-mccrory-coal-ash-roy-cooper
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #618 on: November 12, 2016, 12:06:20 AM »
Trump May ‘Dig’ Coal, But Industry’s Outlook Is Flat at Best
Quote
He can roll back regulations, slash government jobs, pull out of global treaties and strip the tax benefits from renewable energy. But can Donald Trump make coal great again?

Probably not, say energy industry leaders and analysts.

Coal’s share of the U.S. electricity mix has plunged to less than a third today from about half in 2008, the result of cheap natural gas and stepped-up efforts to curb carbon emissions. While Trump, promising to restore jobs, drew boisterous crowds in mining country under slogans such as "Trump Digs Coal," his best efforts may do little more than halt the industry’s steep decline.

“Donald Trump has the courage, the passion and the commitment to get it done,” said Robert E. Murray, the industry’s most outspoken champion and chief executive officer of Murray Energy Corp. “But I do not see an increase in the market for coal.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-10/trump-may-dig-coal-but-industry-s-outlook-is-flat-at-best
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #619 on: November 12, 2016, 01:34:30 AM »
UK plans to close last coal plant by 2025
Quote
Plans to close all coal-fired power stations by the end of 2025 were published today by the UK’s Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS).

The plans, which are open for consultation until 1 February 2017, would meet a commitment made in the run up to the Paris climate talks last year.

The options being considered include applying emissions limits to existing coal plants in 2025 and setting a limit on running hours or emissions from 2023. Carbon Brief runs through the details.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/uk-plans-to-close-last-coal-plant-by-2025
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #620 on: November 18, 2016, 09:11:35 PM »
"The IEA expects China to continue building new coal plants, even though they will run less than 50% of the time. Its outlook has load factors falling to 43% in 2040."

The International Energy Agency (IEA) has dramatically scaled back its outlook for coal demand growth over the next 25 years, Carbon Brief analysis shows.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-international-energy-agency-cuts-coal-growth-outlook-in-half-china
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #621 on: November 21, 2016, 02:30:42 AM »
Coal industry, already in a downward spiral, may defy Trump's promises
Quote
The Trump administration could help the coal industry somewhat by unwinding President Obama's Clean Power Plan, which was designed to replace coal-fired utility plants with those using natural gas and renewable energy sources. But the effects of the plan so far may be hard to reverse.

The tighter air pollution regulations, which are still under challenge in court, forced utilities to choose between revamping aging coal-fired power plants to make them cleaner, or switching to natural gas or green sources like wind and solar. Utilities across the country typically decided to switch.

Last year, as a result, 94 coal-fired power plants were closed across the country, and this year 40 more are expected to close by the end of December. It is most unlikely that Mr. Trump could do anything to bring those plants back online.

"All the older power plants that burned Eastern coal have been basically torn down, dismantled, put in mothballs, some of them permanently," said Robert J. Zik, the now-retired former vice president for operations at TECO Coal, a subsidiary of TECO Energy that was sold to another operator last year.
...

Industry executives say that to extend the life of at least some of the 400 or so coal-burning power plants still in use in the United States, the Trump administration and lawmakers in Congress could work with them on "clean coal" initiatives.

Acknowledging that climate change is an issue even if Mr. Trump does not, Mr. Reavey of Cloud Peak Energy wants federal incentives for utilities to refit existing power plants to burn coal more efficiently and to attach systems to their facilities that will capture carbon emissions and sink them permanently in the ground. Such systems, known as carbon capture and sequestration, are currently so costly that utilities simply prefer to replace coal-fired plants with gas-fired ones.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/20/a-bleak-outlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html
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sidd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #622 on: November 21, 2016, 07:03:14 AM »
Maryland appeals for coal plants to actually use scrubbers

http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/green/blog/bs-md-upwind-air-pollution-20161116-story.html

the following pdf illustrates 750 GW coal generation cancellation. Now to get rid of the 2TW operational

endcoal.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CountryMW-4.pdf

budmantis

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Re: Coal
« Reply #623 on: November 21, 2016, 08:15:32 AM »
A great idea. In New Hampshire, the Bow power plant (coal fired), had a scrubber installed back around 2012/2013.

budmantis

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Re: Coal
« Reply #624 on: November 21, 2016, 10:07:59 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38056587

"Canada announces plan to phase out coal by 2030."

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #625 on: November 25, 2016, 02:08:18 AM »
Finland set to become first country to ban coal use for energy
Quote
Finland could become the first country to ditch coal for good. As part of a new energy and climate strategy due to be announced tomorrow, the government is considering banning the burning of coal for energy by 2030.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2113827-finland-set-to-become-first-country-to-ban-coal-use-for-energy/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #626 on: November 27, 2016, 04:09:29 AM »
Republican Congressional leader Mitch McConnell finally admits ending ‘war on coal’ might not bring back jobs
He’s been falsely blaming Obama’s environmental policies for job losses for years.
Quote
Now that his endorsed presidential candidate is poised to deregulate energy, McConnell has already changed his tune.

In a Friday appearance at the University of Louisville, he tamped down any expectations that coal jobs would come back. “We are going to be presenting to the new president a variety of options that could end this assault,” McConnell told attendees. Then he added “Whether that immediately brings business back is hard to tell because it’s a private sector activity.”

McConnell also noted that he did not intend to spend any government dollars to help those who have lost coal jobs and may not regain them. “A government spending program is not likely to solve the fundamental problem of growth,” McConnell argued. “I support the effort to help these coal counties wherever we can but that isn’t going to replace whatever was there when we had a vibrant coal industry.”
https://thinkprogress.org/mcconnell-admits-jobs-war-on-coal-8938da18e5e3
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #627 on: December 24, 2016, 09:03:49 PM »
The growing urgency of building a new economy in coal-powered Appalachia
Transforming Appalachia’s economy one community at a time.
https://thinkprogress.org/revitalizing-a-coal-powered-culture-fc5149c3bc04
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #628 on: December 26, 2016, 07:01:41 PM »
UK coal use is collapsing
Quote
Coal power output hit zero for the first time in more than 150 years in March 2016. It has been so low that output between April and September was less than that from the UK’s solar panels.

The UK’s top-up carbon tax, the carbon price floor, doubled in April 2015. Three of the UK’s remaining coal plants then closed a year later, in spring 2016. The UK plans to close all unabated coal-fired power stations by 2025.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/two-charts-show-how-uk-coal-use-is-collapsing
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budmantis

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Re: Coal
« Reply #629 on: January 02, 2017, 07:27:00 AM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38484730

"Donald Trump makes top Republican fear environmental future."

Extract: Christine Todd Whitman, head of the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) under George W Bush, accused Mr Trump of ignoring compelling science.

And she warned that his threat to scrap climate protection policies puts the world's future at risk.
-----

Interesting article, just when I thought their were no Republicans left that thought AGW was real!

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #630 on: January 02, 2017, 09:39:37 PM »
Coal Country Picked Trump. Now, They Want Him To Keep His Promises

"He is a whacko; he's never going to stop being a whacko," Hathaway says. "But I mean, the things he did say — the good stuff — was good for the coal mining community. But we'll see what happens."

http://www.npr.org/2017/01/01/507693919/coal-country-picked-trump-now-they-want-him-to-keep-his-promises
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #631 on: January 24, 2017, 02:38:32 PM »
“Timing wise it feels like now is a fantastic time to offload coal assets.”

Rio Tinto Group agreed to sell its thermal coal assets in Australia’s Hunter Valley for as much as $2.45 billion as the world’s second-biggest mining company accelerates its move away from the fuel.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-24/rio-tinto-sells-australia-coal-unit-to-yancoal-for-2-45-billion
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #632 on: February 03, 2017, 08:13:01 PM »
Why the U.S. Congress just killed a rule restricting coal companies from dumping waste in streams
Quote
With everything that Republicans want to do — repeal Obamacare, overhaul the tax code — it might seem odd that one of Congress' very first acts would be to kill an obscure Obama-era regulation that restricts coal companies from dumping mining waste into streams and waterways.

But that is indeed what's going on. On Thursday, the Senate voted 54-45 to repeal the so-called "stream protection rule" — using a regulation-killing tool known as the Congressional Review Act. The House took a similar vote yesterday, and if President Trump agrees, the stream protection rule will be dead. Coal companies will now have a freer hand in dumping mining debris in streams.

Killing this regulation won't really help Trump fulfill his goal of reversing the coal industry's decline; that decline has more to do with cheap natural gas than anything else. Instead, Republicans are mostly focusing on this rule because they can. Because the stream protection rule wasn't finished until very late in 2016, it's much, much easier to kill than most of the other Obama-era rules around coal pollution. It was an easy target, so long as the GOP acted fast....
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/03/why-congress-killed-a-rule-restricting-coal-companies-waste-dumping.html
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P-maker

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Re: Coal
« Reply #633 on: February 03, 2017, 09:11:43 PM »
Sigmetnow

We are living in different worlds.

Danish energy giant DONG just announced that they will phase out coal before 2023. At the same time, yours Goldmand Sachs announced they will sell a large share of their stocks in that company.

Announcement can be found here: http://www.dongenergy.com/en/media/newsroom/news/articles/dong-energy-to-stop-all-use-of-coal-by-2023

Biomass will be the new fuel to some extent, so watch out for mountain top removals, streambed upfillings and clear-cuttings on the slopes of Virginia...

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #634 on: February 04, 2017, 07:35:49 PM »
Sometimes it's not just about government.  This is big news.

The Western U.S.'s Largest Coal Plant May Close. It’s a Big Deal.
Quote
The largest coal-fired power plant in the West — one of the biggest climate polluters in the nation — could close later this year, a major symbolic blow to the future of coal as the backbone of America’s electric power grid.

The owners of Arizona’s Navajo Generating Station northeast of the Grand Canyon announced in early January that low natural gas prices and the rising costs of generating electricity using coal make it too expensive to operate the plant. A decision on the plant’s fate is expected this spring.
...
“In the near term, there is a chance coal may rebound as gas finds new markets, pushing gas prices up slightly,” Regan said. “But even looking out to 2020, 2025, I don’t see much of a comeback, irrespective of the Clean Power Plan.”

That’s true even if Trump administration policy heavily supports both fracking and coal because when it comes to generating electricity, natural gas and coal compete with each other.

“Anything that boosts domestic natural gas production will directly, negatively impact coal-fired power plants by reducing their margins as gas prices depress wholesale power prices,” Regan said.

One of Trump’s biggest campaign promises to voters in coal-producing Appalachian states such as West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Kentucky was that he’d “bring back coal” by killing off the Clean Power Plan and other regulations seen as detrimental to the coal industry. But those same states also depend heavily on natural gas production. 

“It's going to be difficult for Trump to be both pro-natural gas and pro-coal at the same time, unless he intends to directly subsidize coal plants or find other markets for U.S. coal,” Regan said.
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/wests-largest-coal-plant-may-close-21117
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #635 on: February 16, 2017, 05:49:09 PM »
It's happening!

Utilities vote to close Navajo coal plant at end of 2019
Quote
The utilities that own the Navajo Generating Station coal-fired power plant near Page are tired of overpaying for power and decided Monday to close the plant when their lease expires at the end of 2019.

To run that long, the utility owners need to work out an arrangement with the Navajo Nation, which owns the land, to decommission the plant after the lease expires. Otherwise, the owners will have to close at the end of this year to have time to tear down the plant's three generators and be gone by 2020.

Environmentalists cheered the decision to shutter one of the biggest polluters in the nation, while other stakeholders such as the U.S. Department of the Interior and coal supplier Peabody Energy hope to find a way for the Navajo Nation or another entity to step in and keep the plant going beyond 2019.
...
NV Energy already plans to exit the plant, and the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power recently sold its 21.2 percent stake to SRP for $13 million.

When SRP made that deal in 2015, officials said it would help keep the plant running through 2044 because they could "retire" the Los Angeles and Nevada portions of the plant, or one generator, in 2019 to comply with environmental regulations. That would allow another 24 years of operations at the two remaining generators.

But cheap natural gas has thrown a wrench into those plans. Over the course of the past year, SRP has gone from fighting to keep the plant open to arguing for its closure.

Also holding a stake in the outcome is the Central Arizona Project, which uses some of the Bureau of Reclamation's share of the power to run pumps on the canal to bring Colorado River water to Phoenix, Tucson and tribes in central Arizona.

CAP released a presentation Monday that concludes it would have saved $38.5 million in 2016 if it had bought power on the open market rather than from the Navajo Generating Station.
...
http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/energy/2017/02/13/utilities-vote-close-navajo-generating-station-coal-plant-2019/97866668/
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DrTskoul

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Re: Coal
« Reply #636 on: February 16, 2017, 06:25:21 PM »
Good riddance.

Buddy

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Re: Coal
« Reply #637 on: February 16, 2017, 11:03:49 PM »
Quote
“Timing wise it feels like now is a fantastic time to offload coal assets.”

The death spiral in coal continues......unless you have coking coal.  And oil and gas won't be as far behind as I thought it would be....
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #638 on: February 18, 2017, 05:47:47 PM »
Why Trump just killed a rule restricting coal companies from dumping waste in streams
http://www.vox.com/2017/2/2/14488448/stream-protection-rule
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DrTskoul

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gerontocrat

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Re: Coal
« Reply #640 on: February 18, 2017, 07:31:22 PM »
AUSTRALIA!
The Aussie Federal Govt wants build new clean (ha-ha) coal powered electricity plants. The energy industry - Private sector and State governments - do NOT want the damn things. (Except coal producers obviously).

A strange day when the environmentalists need to support the private sector against a Govt that signed the Paris agreement and says it will implement the Marrakesh plans.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #641 on: February 19, 2017, 04:12:14 AM »
China suspends North Korean coal imports, striking at regime’s financial lifeline
Quote
BEIJING — China will suspend all imports of coal from North Korea until the end of the year, the Commerce Ministry announced Saturday, in a surprise move that would cut off a major financial lifeline for Pyongyang and significantly enhance the effectiveness of U.N. sanctions.

Coal is North Korea’s largest export item, and also China’s greatest point of leverage over the regime.

The ministry said the ban would come into force Sunday and be effective until Dec. 31....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-suspends-north-koreas-coal-imports-striking-at-regimes-financial-lifeline/2017/02/18/8390b0e6-f5df-11e6-a9b0-ecee7ce475fc_story.html
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gerontocrat

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Re: Coal
« Reply #642 on: February 19, 2017, 06:59:24 PM »
Coal Ban by China simply power politics about North Korea slinging missiles about. Only temporary but of course could start a series of unfortunate events.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #643 on: February 21, 2017, 03:40:25 AM »
Australia: 
Pre-election coal advertising funded by money meant for clean coal research
Quote
The coal industry's multi-million-dollar advertising and lobbying campaign in the run-up to the last federal election was bankrolled by money deducted from state mining royalty payments and meant to fund research into "clean coal".
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-20/coal-advertising-funded-by-money-meant-for-clean-coal-research/8287326
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #644 on: February 22, 2017, 06:34:08 PM »
"In the next four years, utilities have plans to close 40 coal units [in the U.S.], federal figures show. Six closures have been announced since Trump's victory in November."

Coal plants keep closing on Trump's watch
http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060050333
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longwalks1

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Re: Coal
« Reply #645 on: March 01, 2017, 03:10:30 AM »
The end of "Clean Coal?"

https://www.desmogblog.com/2017/02/27/southern-company-says-its-delayed-kemper-power-plant-not-viable-coal-plant

Quote
In an apparent first salvo in a public relations campaign to shift blame for the Kemper power plant boondoggle away from himself and corporate management and onto state regulators, Southern Company chief executive officer Tom Fanning admitted this week that the Kemper plant is not economically viable as a coal-burning power plant.

Quote
When the PSC held hearings in October 2009 to determine if the state actually needed additional electrical power, the Sierra Club pointed out that Mississippi already had 12 natural gas plants that sat idle 85 percent of the time and could provide up to 7,995 megawatts of power. Many of these were so-called merchant plants that were for sale for $500 million or less.

$7.1 Billion US$ to build.   582-megawatt electric power plant

The plan - dig lignite locally, gasify via Integrated gasification combined cycle, and then  use CO2 to inject locally into older nearby oil fields.  Oh, and export the technology to Poland for their lignite reserves.   

And Chu on this - Dr. Chu was a big booster of this. 

More info
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemper_Project     Kemper Plant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_gasification_combined_cycle   Info on the Integrated gasification combined cycle. 

I was down the road for another year in Mobile Alabama  2006-2007 and am well aware of the snake oil and corruption associated with Mississippi politics and the Haley Barbour clan.  Adding KBR and Southern Company to the mix makes a for one of the most perfect boondoggles ever on the planet. 


ghoti

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Re: Coal
« Reply #646 on: March 01, 2017, 05:21:08 AM »
These CCS coal plants get public support from seemingly strange sources. Like the minister of environment and climate change in canada praising the CCS plant in Saskatchewan.

Since building and running the Sask CCS plant adds a cost equivalent to a $100/tonne carbon tax the minister is supportive. These plants are an important way to drive utilities away from considering new coal power plants. Also they make $30/tonne carbon taxes look like bargains.

DrTskoul

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Re: Coal
« Reply #647 on: March 01, 2017, 12:39:09 PM »
These CCS coal plants get public support from seemingly strange sources. Like the minister of environment and climate change in canada praising the CCS plant in Saskatchewan.

Since building and running the Sask CCS plant adds a cost equivalent to a $100/tonne carbon tax the minister is supportive. These plants are an important way to drive utilities away from considering new coal power plants. Also they make $30/tonne carbon taxes look like bargains.

Do you have a li nk for the 100$/tonne? I am curious to find more info...

ghoti

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Re: Coal
« Reply #648 on: March 01, 2017, 03:45:02 PM »
Oh the $100/tonne is my own calculation based on capital costs amortized over 10 years and the electricity production. The numbers were from news reports announcing the completion of the plant with the CCS. I didn't include the running costs nor maintenance costs nor the costs of the power used to drive the CCS that would have otherwise been sold.

So take the number with a grain of salt.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #649 on: March 01, 2017, 04:04:59 PM »
As State Loosens Oversight, Coal Ash Contaminates Central Kentucky Waterway
Quote
As Kentucky regulators and utilities are pushing to loosen regulations on the state’s coal ash ponds and landfills, more pollution problems are emerging at one of the sites in central Kentucky.

Over the past six years, documents show contaminated water including arsenic and selenium leached from the ash pond at the E.W. Brown Power Station into groundwater and directly into Herrington Lake, near Danville. Despite remedial measures taken by Louisville Gas & Electric and Kentucky Utilities, the pollution persists.

Now, fish tissue sampling has revealed the coal ash pond’s selenium runoff has poisoned aquatic life in the lake.

Meanwhile, the same regulators who monitor the runoff from that plant have been working extensively with the utility industry — including a group that represents LG&E and KU — to weaken state regulations governing coal ash.

Experts say that under the new regulations, the pollution at the E.W. Brown plant might never have been detected....
http://wfpl.org/as-state-loosens-oversight-coal-ash-contaminates-central-kentucky-waterway/
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