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Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #700 on: May 08, 2017, 08:28:04 PM »
Looks like Pakistan has plenty coal if they want to burn it....

Quote
The Thar coalfield is located in Thar Desert, Tharparkar District of Sindh province in Pakistan. The deposits - 16th largest coal reserves in the world,

Pakistan is also getting into large scale solar.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #701 on: May 16, 2017, 04:08:40 PM »
South Korea to temporarily close 10 old coal-fired power plants in June
Quote
May 15 South Korea will temporarily shut down 10 coal-fired power plants that are over 30 years old in June to mitigate air pollution, the office of President Moon Jae-in said in a statement on Monday.

The measure comes as coal-fired power plants are being criticised for contributing to deteriorating air quality in South Korea, Asia's fourth-largest economy.

Amid these concerns, new President Moon vowed during his election campaign to close the old coal power plants and review a plan to add coal power generation. Instead he advocated increasing the share of renewables to produce more clean energy.

Following through on the promise to reduce coal-fired generation, the presidential office, formally called the Blue House, said that it will temporarily suspend operations of the older coal power plants next month for one month.

The Blue House also said it will shut the older coal plants again in 2018 from March to June and, furthermore, wants to close all of the old coal plants within Moon's presidency which ends in May 2022.

In July last year, South Korea's energy ministry announced a plan to close the 10 old coal-fired power plants by 2025 in order to lower its coal power reliance and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
...
http://uk.reuters.com/article/southkorea-politics-energy-idUKL4N1IH13D
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vigilius

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Re: Coal
« Reply #702 on: May 16, 2017, 05:11:12 PM »
Well, promoters in Plaquemines Parish near by where I live have been wanting to build a coal export terminal on the banks of the Mississippi. I joined with local protesters on this issue....   ....but WOW it looks like maybe demand is diminishing and I will have no coal trains going by my house after all. Wouldn't that be nice. Still awaiting final developments.

gerontocrat

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Re: Coal
« Reply #703 on: May 16, 2017, 05:13:26 PM »
Miners are used to working in difficult and sometimes dangerous conditions.
Many are highly skilled engineers, mechanics, electricians et al.
All know how to work with (often highly sophisticated) mechanised systems.

What do we do when an industry like coal is in terminal decline ? We throw the work-force on the scrap heap.
Why? Because the legislators and mine owners in places like West Virginia (and in the UK in the 1980s and 1990s) are too damn thick and too damn greedy to realise that it is the people who are the most valuable asset.

The sun shines and the wind blows in West Virginia. The workforce is there. Everything you need (with a bit of new skills training) to build a renewable energy industry is there. Will it happen? probably not with the idiots from the POTUS down in charge.

ps: One mine owner in West Virginia is building a solar farm on a mountaintop scraped flat for mining.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #704 on: May 16, 2017, 10:11:09 PM »
Well, promoters in Plaquemines Parish near by where I live have been wanting to build a coal export terminal on the banks of the Mississippi. I joined with local protesters on this issue....   ....but WOW it looks like maybe demand is diminishing and I will have no coal trains going by my house after all. Wouldn't that be nice. Still awaiting final developments.

There have been multiple attempts to create port facilities along the Pacific to ship US coal to Asia.  It seems like people have quit trying.  Those countries that are still burning coal in large amounts are largely ceasing imports. 

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #705 on: May 16, 2017, 10:15:51 PM »
Miners are used to working in difficult and sometimes dangerous conditions.
Many are highly skilled engineers, mechanics, electricians et al.
All know how to work with (often highly sophisticated) mechanised systems.

What do we do when an industry like coal is in terminal decline ? We throw the work-force on the scrap heap.
Why? Because the legislators and mine owners in places like West Virginia (and in the UK in the 1980s and 1990s) are too damn thick and too damn greedy to realise that it is the people who are the most valuable asset.

The sun shines and the wind blows in West Virginia. The workforce is there. Everything you need (with a bit of new skills training) to build a renewable energy industry is there. Will it happen? probably not with the idiots from the POTUS down in charge.

ps: One mine owner in West Virginia is building a solar farm on a mountaintop scraped flat for mining.

What coal country doesn't understand is that if Democrats get control over the federal government coal country will stand a significantly higher chance of getting help retraining coal workers and creating jobs for them.

I'm amazed at the number of Americans who really, really need federal programs and social safety nets but vote for the party that wants to kill those very programs. 

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Coal
« Reply #706 on: May 17, 2017, 01:17:22 AM »
I also am amazed, although many folks vote 'their guns' or 'abortion' before 'their economic or medical well being.'
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TerryM

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Re: Coal
« Reply #707 on: May 17, 2017, 06:16:18 AM »
Miners are used to working in difficult and sometimes dangerous conditions.
Many are highly skilled engineers, mechanics, electricians et al.
All know how to work with (often highly sophisticated) mechanised systems.

What do we do when an industry like coal is in terminal decline ? We throw the work-force on the scrap heap.
Why? Because the legislators and mine owners in places like West Virginia (and in the UK in the 1980s and 1990s) are too damn thick and too damn greedy to realise that it is the people who are the most valuable asset.

The sun shines and the wind blows in West Virginia. The workforce is there. Everything you need (with a bit of new skills training) to build a renewable energy industry is there. Will it happen? probably not with the idiots from the POTUS down in charge.

ps: One mine owner in West Virginia is building a solar farm on a mountaintop scraped flat for mining.
The bolded is certainly a ray of hope. As you pointed out, the difference in skill sets between a coal miner and a solar or wind installer or technician is not an insurmountable barrier. A week of training, then a few months of mentoring on the job should produce a journeyman tech that can make money for himself and his employer.


Dropping the tariff on Chinese solar panels would ease the transition.
Terry

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #708 on: May 17, 2017, 06:33:58 AM »
Coal jobs pay more than wind and solar jobs.  Plus most coal miners live close to the mine and their families have lived there for generations.  Many of those people don't want to go elsewhere for work.

For the most part their houses and land are worthless.  There's no one to buy them out if they want to leave.

Other than the odd flat-topped mountain (Thanks, Mr. Peabody) there aren't a lot of place that are good for large solar.  And there aren't big transmission lines. 

These are basically parts of the US that people will abandon over the next 50 or so years. Young people with ambition already leave.  As time goes along there will be no infrastructure. No grocery stores, no health facilities, ....  The last few old folks will die in place or get moved out to a nursing home by their kids who no longer live there.  Forests will reclaim the area.


gerontocrat

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Re: Coal
« Reply #709 on: May 17, 2017, 02:23:45 PM »
Coal jobs pay more than wind and solar jobs.  Plus most coal miners live close to the mine and their families have lived there for generations.  Many of those people don't want to go elsewhere for work.

For the most part their houses and land are worthless.  There's no one to buy them out if they want to leave.

Other than the odd flat-topped mountain (Thanks, Mr. Peabody) there aren't a lot of place that are good for large solar.  And there aren't big transmission lines. 

These are basically parts of the US that people will abandon over the next 50 or so years. Young people with ambition already leave.  As time goes along there will be no infrastructure. No grocery stores, no health facilities, ....  The last few old folks will die in place or get moved out to a nursing home by their kids who no longer live there.  Forests will reclaim the area.

Hullo Bob,
To answer your points:-
A job is better than no job, especially if it is skilled.
Everybody drives in the USA. A job up to 50 miles away from home is doable.
There are all sorts of solar and wind projects from individual houses, small communities, large communities and cities etc etc.
Smart energy grid management can work well managing energy ins and out from many different locations with modest transmission lines. There are places that are moving away from a few large power plants with massive interconnectors to a much more distributed system. Horses for courses.

A future where we all live in megacities totally divorced from the natural world may well be where the powers that be are pushing us. Yuk.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #710 on: May 17, 2017, 06:35:12 PM »
There aren't going to be large wind farms built within 50 miles of coal towns.  And there's no money in those towns for installing solar on roofs.

For workers living in coal towns the routine would likely be to leave home on Sunday afternoon, drive a few hours to where they will work for a week and then return home late Friday night.  People aren't going to do that for 20 years.

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A future where we all live in megacities totally divorced from the natural world may well be where the powers that be are pushing us.

The power of economics is pushing us into large cities.  At some point in the future, when work is done by robot and we all receive a living stipend I see a great movement back into the beautiful places we have left.  It might take 100 years but I see a time when we don't spend our lives working for a living and are free to live where it makes us happy as opposed to living where we can find work.


Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #711 on: May 17, 2017, 08:30:01 PM »
...
Other than the odd flat-topped mountain (Thanks, Mr. Peabody) there aren't a lot of place that are good for large solar.  And there aren't big transmission lines. 

Solar farms don't have to be flat.  And all those coal-fired power plants we're closing have transmission lines, ready to be tapped into.
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magnamentis

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Re: Coal
« Reply #712 on: May 17, 2017, 11:36:36 PM »
...
Other than the odd flat-topped mountain (Thanks, Mr. Peabody) there aren't a lot of place that are good for large solar.  And there aren't big transmission lines. 

Solar farms don't have to be flat.  And all those coal-fired power plants we're closing have transmission lines, ready to be tapped into.

still better than fossil but this kind of solar farms are horrible and will certainly soon be banned. before we cover natural ground with panels all over the place we should cover each roof by law, the way we have to buy new oil firing units by law now to meet exhaust requirements. i still cannot understand why in places with 350 days of sunshine and/or wind, PV is not mandatory for newly bullt and reconstructed buildings, especially those with flat roofs, and, with a generous transition period, for all suitable buildings. if that could be achieved, there would be no need to further reduce open land area for whatever. further we should rebuild forests intensely because co2 is not only about exhaust, but about natural transformation as well. a holistic approach is desperately needed, to clog one hole with another is not a solution but possibly worse longterm. why, because of all the unknown and not put into account variables. history has shown that technical solutions that were not thought to the end usually worsened things.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #713 on: May 18, 2017, 02:22:50 AM »
magnamentis wrote: "...before we cover natural ground with panels all over the place we should cover each roof by law..."

No argument here that buildings should be covered with PV.  But solar on land does not mean agriculture or horticulture need be abandoned.  Animals can graze, crops can be planted.  A county in Minnesota aims to protect pollinators by requiring planting of native flowers in solar farms.  In the photo below, apparently grapes are growing.

Translucent solar panels are available now -- solar panels will not always block out the sun.

To return to topic: solar farms can help reclaim land devastated by the coal industry.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #714 on: May 18, 2017, 07:12:47 AM »
I recently saw an article about a farmer growing salad crops under the partial shade of solar panels.  Their shade allowed him to produce when other farmers had already plowed under their bolted crops.

We certainly shouldn't cover our best farmland with solar, and we won't.  If you look at the pictures of panels installed on hills, that is not good cropland.  It's too hard to work crops on that sort of slope. 

In general solar farms are being built on low value land.  It makes no sense to pay for expensive land when there's plenty land that's much cheaper.

silkman

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Re: Coal
« Reply #715 on: May 18, 2017, 09:32:38 AM »
In the UK solar farms and agriculture get along pretty well and the income from renewable energy can be a real boost to farm income:

https://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/nsc/Documents%20Library/NSC%20Publications/NSC_-Guid_Agricultural-good-practice-for-SFs_0914.pdf

Sheep farming is a good fit and the impact on wildlife and biodiversity is positive. I have personal experience with a small array the was installed in Cornwall very early in the solar industry development phase that works very well in this way.

Sheep are used to keep undergrowth under control in some wineries in Western Australia and also generate an additional return. More photogenic than a solar array certainly but the principle is the same.


Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #716 on: May 18, 2017, 09:50:51 PM »
 In Case You Missed It:  Coal companies want Trump to stay in the Paris Climate Agreement -- so they can get money from it.

Big Coal’s last-ditch effort won’t save the industry
Bolstered by the Trump administration, Big Coal is looking to make a comeback.
Quote
...
But, according to the Reuters report, the coal companies consulted by the administration aren’t merely looking to influence domestic policy — they want to ensure coal projects receive multilateral funding, ostensibly through international bodies of investment like the Green Climate Fund or the World Bank. And in that case, the Trump administration’s own policies could be damning.

“This is an administration that, if they stay in [the agreement], is going to be staying in because predominantly they can’t take the blowback internationally.”

In its so-called ‘skinny budget’ released in March, the Trump administration called for ending payments to both the Green Climate Fund and the Climate Investment Funds. Developed countries pay into those funds, which in turn go toward helping developing countries adapt to and mitigate climate change. But if the United States does not participate in either fund, Light says, it will be extremely difficult for the U.S. or its coal coal companies to exert any influence over which projects those funds choose to support.

“Coal companies have got to be taking into consideration that U.S. influence is going to completely plummet because of the administration’s intention to stop funding these funds,” he said.

Moreover, projects like carbon capture and storage facilities are untested and expensive, making them unappealing to investors. A carbon capture and storage plant in DeKalb, Mississippi — which was billed as a model for how future coal plants could help reduce emissions and slow climate change — is currently more than $4 billion dollars over its initial budget and still not operational.....
https://thinkprogress.org/coal-paris-the-market-and-climate-change-7a7605431251
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TerryM

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Re: Coal
« Reply #717 on: May 18, 2017, 11:14:05 PM »
I'm not sure that Trump's base will be holding his feet to the (coal fed) fire now that a "Special Prosecutor" has been appointed.


While Ken Star kept Bill Clinton pinned to the mat we didn't expect him to keep his campaign promises, we expected him to fight for his political life. Their expectation's won't be too much different since in many cases it's the same people, they've just aged a little.


Those once referred to as the Bubba Vote may in fact feel that no matter who they vote for, the opposition always attempts a witch hunt, aiming at an impeachment. They saved Bill's second term with their votes, will they repeat for Trump?


Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #718 on: May 19, 2017, 01:00:50 AM »
Coal plants failed in Queensland heatwave on day of record demand
“Are Australia’s coal and gas generators fit for purpose to power Australia through next summer’s heatwaves? The evidence of last summer suggests they cannot be relied upon, with a new report showing how coal plants melted in the heat in Queensland on a day of record demand.”
Quote
...
The events of the past summer has caused one of the biggest network owners to complain about the reliability of fossil fuel generation. Spark Infrastructure, which owns networks in Victoria and South Australia, said gas generators were proving unable to deliver reliable power at times of peak demand.

It also accused them of charging excessive prices for both their retail operations and their generation. This follows questions about the reliability of fossil fuel generators and their ability to deliver the grid security they are paid handsomely to do.

AEMO has admitted that some legacy coal and gas generators have no performance standards, and it may not even know what their control settings are. A point underlined by Tom Butler, in his piece today, which analyses numerous issues with governor controls and other issues, and by other submissions which point to system weakness from fossil fuel generation.

The AER has been chronicling all sorts of occasions when coal and gas generation has been lost due to the heat. Apart from the events on February 6, February 10, February 12 and March 3, mentioned above, more capacity was lost in January, mostly the result of “heat” issues that forced coal and gas generators across the state to lower capacity.

On Friday, January 13, for instance, between 600MW and 670MW of coal and gas capacity suddenly became “unavailable” due to “plant limitations, some of which related to the high temperature.”

And, of course, there was the February 8 incident in South Australia, when 90,000 people lost power for up to 45 minutes when one major gas unit sat idle while the lights went out, and as several other gas units failed in the heat.
...
http://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-plants-failed-in-queensland-heatwave-on-day-of-record-demand-85223/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #719 on: May 21, 2017, 03:08:37 PM »
The coal miner who became a data miner
Quote
A heavy maintenance superintendent for a surface coal mine in Elgin, Texas, Evans was responsible for figuring out how to patch or replace outdated parts of a field delivery system that ferried coal from the mine to a plant. Each minute of downtime could cost the company as much as $170.

Now the third-generation coal miner gets her adrenaline rush sitting indoors on a soft swivel chair, fixing code on a computer screen. The 33-year-old is a data scientist currently doing a paid residency at Galvanize in Austin....
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/17/technology/coal-miner-data-miner/index.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #720 on: May 22, 2017, 09:48:24 PM »
In 2017 alone, enough US coal plants to power Qatar have announced closures
Quote
...
Trump’s coal magic has worked but not in the way Gillette had hoped. In April, US coal production was up 17% compared to a year ago. At the same time, however, coal mining jobs were down 8% (about 6,000 jobs).

This year alone eight coal power plants have announced closures. Many are shutting decades before their expiry date. The closures total 9.4 GW of lost electricity generating capacity, which is more than what all of Qatar can produce today.
...
Some other power companies haven’t announced closures, but are moving in that direction. For instance, DTE Energy, Michigan’s biggest power supplier, announced last week that it will retire all its coal-fired plants by 2050, moving to natural gas and wind.

The most common reason for an early closure is that the plants are no longer economically viable. The shale gas boom has made natural gas very cheap—cleaner and more efficient fossil fuel. The rate per kilowatt-hour offered by coal power plants is increasingly being beaten by natural gas or even renewables like wind and solar.
...
https://qz.com/988271/donald-trumps-coal-promise-us-coal-fired-plants-forced-to-announce-closures-in-2017-alone-could-power-all-of-qatar/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #721 on: May 23, 2017, 08:18:47 PM »
Wind Project in Wyoming Envisions Coal Miners as Trainees
Quote
Goldwind Americas, an arm of a leading wind-turbine manufacturer based in China, has been expanding its business in the United States. It has been careful to seek out local, American workers for permanent jobs on the wind farms it supplies.

Now it is trying to extend that policy to an unlikely place: Wyoming, which produces more coal than any other state and has hardly welcomed the march of turbines across the country, even imposing a tax on wind-energy generation....
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/21/business/energy-environment/wind-turbine-job-training-wyoming.html
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #722 on: May 23, 2017, 08:30:34 PM »
Wyoming has  some honkin' big wind farms under development.  Coal may still have enough political power to mess with wind, but look for that to change.

All it's going to take is for Wyoming's wind industry to start employing a lot more people than Wyoming's coal industry.  And that shouldn't take long.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #723 on: May 24, 2017, 07:39:42 AM »
Quote
Though India had been expected to be the site of a coal boom, plans for new coal construction totaling nearly 14 GW have been cancelled so far this month.

Analyst Tim Buckley of the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis pegged the coal cancellations on record-low solar tariffs of three cents per KW/hr, The Independent reported. Buckley said as of January last year energy analysts predicted such a low price could never be achieved.

That price is lower than the current wholesale coal power price of four cents per KW/hr.

“For the first time solar is cheaper than coal in India and the implications this has for transforming global energy markets is profound,” Buckley said.

“Measures taken by the Indian Government to improve energy efficiency coupled with ambitious renewable energy targets and the plummeting cost of solar has had an impact on existing as well as proposed coal fired power plants, rendering an increasing number as financially unviable. India’s solar tariffs have literally been free falling in recent months.”

http://www.power-eng.com/articles/2017/05/india-cancels-plans-for-14-gw-of-coal-due-to-cheap-solar.html


Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #724 on: May 24, 2017, 09:54:19 PM »
"UK coal:

Fiddlers Ferry & Aberthaw didn't run at all during April. None of UK coal plants ran for more than 20% of hours..."
https://twitter.com/DrSimEvans/status/865481140357914624
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sidd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #725 on: May 24, 2017, 11:53:31 PM »
Low utilization means more thermal cycle. Huge boilers at coal plants really dont like thermal cycle, they want to sit at temperature. Maintenance expense, downtime, lifetime change nonlinearly with frequency of thermal cycles.  The brave new world of vanishing baseload has no room for inflexible generation.

Unfortunately, that world seems to have no room for destitute employees either.

sidd

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #726 on: May 25, 2017, 05:51:52 AM »
Quote
Along with developing sprawling new wind and solar farms, China is investing heavily in the most efficient coal technologies. In fact, new plants under construction in the country are dramatically more efficient than anything currently operating in the U.S....

China is closing down many of its older coal plants. At the same time, China’s operating coal plants must meet a very high efficiency standard by 2020 -- a bar that very few American coal plants can meet.

 CAP researchers dug into a wave of Chinese coal plants announced between 2013 to 2016 and found that many of them likely won't get constructed.

"What American observers need to know is that many of those new plants are white elephants that China cannot fully utilize. They represent a blip rather than a trend, and Beijing is already moving to shut down many of these new plants."

Still, the plants currently under construction in China are some of the most efficient in the world. The report found that 90 out of 100 of China’s most efficient coal plants are ultra-supercritical, which means they’re operating at high temperatures of over 1,400 degrees Fahrenheit and pressures of more than 5,000 pounds per square inch.

In contrast, only one of America's 100 most efficient coal plants is ultra-supercritical. The rest are subcritical or supercritical, which operate at much lower temperatures and pressures, and thus are far less efficient.

Chinese citizens are pressuring the government to solve severe air pollution problems, forcing Chinese officials to halt many new plants. Cheap natural gas is a primary reason for coal retirements in the U.S.

China doesn’t have the same type of easily accessible, low-cost domestic natural gas that America does. This makes efficient coal more important to its energy mix in the medium term, conclude the analysts.

"Energy solutions that work well for China will not necessarily work well for the United States. In addition to the massive population disparity, the United States has access to cheap and plentiful shale gas, and China does not. If China is going to reduce emissions substantially, more efficient coal generation has to be part of its equation, at least for the near to medium term. In the United States, investing in next-generation clean coal plants is not a good solution, because natural gas is cheap, plentiful and lower-emitting than all but the most expensive coal-fired power," write the researchers.

The transformation won’t be easy for coal workers. But employment in clean energy will far outpace the decline in coal jobs in China.

According to the report, Beijing expects its coal sector to shed 1.3 million workers between 2016 to 2020. Meanwhile, 13 million new clean energy jobs are slated to be created in China by 2020.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/chinas-coal-fleet-will-soon-be-more-efficient-than-americas


Trading one coal job for ten clean energy jobs seems like a good deal to me. 

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #727 on: May 25, 2017, 05:55:31 AM »
Quote
A new jobs training initiative in Wyoming seeks to bridge the gap between diminishing coal employment and booming wind technician jobs.

Goldwind Americas, the local branch of the major Chinese turbine manufacturer, is launching a free jobs training program for what the Bureau of Labor Statistics ranks as the fastest-growing job in the U.S. Wind turbine service technician employment is slated to grow 108 percent in the 10 years starting from 2014, with median wages of $52,260 in 2016.

The Goldwind Works program will tackle the demand for skilled turbine repairs alongside another national challenge: the declining fortunes of America's coal miners. The company is building a massive wind farm in a part of Wyoming with a history so linked to the coal industry that it is called Carbon County.



https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/chinese-wind-turbine-company-goldwind-wants-to-hire-out-of-work-coal-miners

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #728 on: May 25, 2017, 09:05:45 PM »
Desperate....

State lawmakers want the public to pay to prop up coal
Lawmakers in Ohio are proposing to subsidize permanently two coal-fired plants.
Quote
As coal-fired power plants continue to shutter across the country, politicians at the local and federal level are trying increasingly desperate measures to keep the once-dominant fuel afloat.

In Ohio, legislators have proposed a bill that would permanently subsidize two coal-fired power plants, owned jointly by American Electric Power and other major electricity utilities in the state. The subsidies would guarantee income for the power plants, even when the cost of electricity was less than the cost of operating the plants.

Money from the subsidies would come directly from consumers, who would be charged higher rates to pay the plants’ guaranteed income. If the plants became profitable, the customers would receive a credit back for the amount that they paid.

The move has prompted criticism from environmental groups, which accuse politicians of forcing consumers to bear the costs of outdated technology.
...
https://thinkprogress.org/coal-subsidies-studies-politicians-977b2381aa3a
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TerryM

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Re: Coal
« Reply #729 on: May 26, 2017, 05:22:18 PM »
Desperate....

State lawmakers want the public to pay to prop up coal
Lawmakers in Ohio are proposing to subsidize permanently two coal-fired plants.
Quote
As coal-fired power plants continue to shutter across the country, politicians at the local and federal level are trying increasingly desperate measures to keep the once-dominant fuel afloat.

In Ohio, legislators have proposed a bill that would permanently subsidize two coal-fired power plants, owned jointly by American Electric Power and other major electricity utilities in the state. The subsidies would guarantee income for the power plants, even when the cost of electricity was less than the cost of operating the plants.

Money from the subsidies would come directly from consumers, who would be charged higher rates to pay the plants’ guaranteed income. If the plants became profitable, the customers would receive a credit back for the amount that they paid.

The move has prompted criticism from environmental groups, which accuse politicians of forcing consumers to bear the costs of outdated technology.
...
https://thinkprogress.org/coal-subsidies-studies-politicians-977b2381aa3a


As more companies leave Ohio in search of cleaner and cheaper energy.


Won't they ever learn?
Terry

rboyd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #730 on: May 26, 2017, 05:32:58 PM »
They want a free market until it doesn't suit them, then government subsidies are fine if they are the ones on the receiving end. Socialism for corporations, free market capitalism for workers.

The state should spend the money on retraining the workers for renewable jobs, and let the fossil fuel corporations whither away.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #731 on: May 26, 2017, 06:04:14 PM »
Quote
As more companies leave Ohio in search of cleaner and cheaper energy.

Won't they ever learn?

It feels like we are continuing to hollow out the rust belt states.  Brighter kids mostly leave for places where opportunities are better.  The folks who have stayed behind don't seem to have the cognitive ability to rebuild their economies.  They're caught up into resentment, blaming others, and opioid addiction.

Perhaps, at some time, they will bottom out and turn things around.  Or maybe the US Midwest largely consist of agriculture and wind farms and little else.


rboyd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #732 on: May 26, 2017, 06:20:40 PM »
Within a couple of decades people and businesses could come flocking back as the realities of sea level rise, high temperatures/drought and crazy weather make themselves increasingly felt in the south.

Much safer in Ohio, surrounded the Great Lakes with the rainfall moving northwards and away from the coasts. Perhaps a great long-term investment opportunity?

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #733 on: May 26, 2017, 08:11:24 PM »
Within a couple of decades people and businesses could come flocking back as the realities of sea level rise, high temperatures/drought and crazy weather make themselves increasingly felt in the south.

Much safer in Ohio, surrounded the Great Lakes with the rainfall moving northwards and away from the coasts. Perhaps a great long-term investment opportunity?

Not that soon, but if we move to something like guaranteed basic incomes then I would expect people to start seeking out the nicer places in the interior where they could find less expensive places to live, a spot for gardening, and access to uncrowded recreational lands.  Some of the places in the middle of the country where economies are crashing are very beautiful. 


rboyd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #734 on: May 26, 2017, 08:15:37 PM »
The stark difference between Ohio, Michigan, northern New York and Ontario is quite stunning. With better transportation and less border hassle you could see some Canadians commuting from south/west of the border. Especially given the radical differences in property prices.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #735 on: May 27, 2017, 02:12:15 AM »
Australia:

"Hell hath no fury like the Country Womens Association..."
https://mobile.twitter.com/australisterry/status/867709863438069760

CWA makes it policy to ban Coal Seam Gas as Nationals declare they want to expand industry
Quote
The Country Women’s Association has passed a motion calling for a halt to any further “unconventional gas exploration” in NSW - a ban on Coal Seam Gas.
http://www.theland.com.au/story/4686569/coal-seam-gas-cwa-votes-to-ban-it/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #736 on: May 27, 2017, 07:55:34 PM »
Australia:

Adani's coal mine dealt fresh blow as Queensland shunts $1 billion rail loan role
Quote
Prospects for the controversial Adani coal mine have dimmed further after the Queensland government said it wanted no role in any federal loan to support the project.

In a statement on Saturday, Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said that "consistent with our election commitments, cabinet has determined that any [Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility] loan needs to be between the federal government and Adani".
...
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/adanis-coal-mine-dealt-fresh-blow-as-queensland-shunts-1-billion-rail-loan-role-20170527-gweiuj.html
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sidd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #737 on: May 28, 2017, 07:50:16 AM »
I cant believe this guy. Hopefully the Supremes will refuse to hear the appeal.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/335280-convicted-ex-coal-boss-appeals-case-to-supreme-court

sidd

DrTskoul

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Re: Coal
« Reply #738 on: May 28, 2017, 02:59:43 PM »
Vietnam makes a big push for coal, while pledging to curb emissions – “If the entire region implements the coal-based plans right now, I think we are finished”

http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2017/05/vietnam-makes-big-push-for-coal-while.html?m=1


Shared Humanity

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Re: Coal
« Reply #739 on: May 28, 2017, 04:15:54 PM »
Vietnam makes a big push for coal, while pledging to curb emissions – “If the entire region implements the coal-based plans right now, I think we are finished”

http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2017/05/vietnam-makes-big-push-for-coal-while.html?m=1

I visit this blog daily. I use to spend a lot of time in the "Policy and Solutions" section but quit visiting a couple of years ago as it depresses me. Solutions????? Hah!

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #740 on: May 28, 2017, 05:31:14 PM »
Perhaps you should read more.  Solutions abound.  The cost of solutions is plunging.  The implementation of solutions is accelerating.

The planet has hit peak coal and coal consumption is falling.

oren

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Re: Coal
« Reply #741 on: May 28, 2017, 08:24:41 PM »
SH, I am depressed too, but Bob here is doing his best to cheer me up. A pretty good job sometimes.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #742 on: May 28, 2017, 11:56:31 PM »
If you're someone who has a need to worry, then worry about how we reduce the amount of CO2 already in the atmosphere.  We have the technology we need to stop adding to our problem.  And the economics will, I think, get the world largely off fossil fuels before 2050.

Re-sequestering the stuff we released to date plus what we release over the next 20-30 years is an unsolved problem.

And you can worry about how much worse rising sea levels and extreme weather will get before we level things out.  I've given up on Miami.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #743 on: May 30, 2017, 04:52:28 PM »
U.S.:  PSEG shuts down its last coal plants in New Jersey: `It's just economics'
Quote
Like many 57-year-olds, the Mercer Generation Station can still do its job, which is producing electricity from Appalachian coal for a public hungry for power. But this former workhorse of the grid has been eclipsed by a new generation of power plants, and on Thursday it will shut down for good.

Public Service Enterprise Group of Newark, N.J., announced in October that it would shut down Mercer and the Hudson Generation Station on June 1, retiring its two remaining coal-fired power plants in New Jersey, casualties of a sustained low-price environment brought on by inexpensive natural gas.

The closures take place just six years after the company’s power-generation subsidiary, PSEG Power, completed more than $1 billion in upgrades to environmental controls at the two sites to comply with new federal emissions standards. Though the company correctly anticipated stricter environmental regulations, it did not foresee the tumble in energy prices brought on by shale gas.

“We made a bet on high gas prices,” Ralph Izzo, PSEG’s chief executive, said in an interview last week. “We got that wrong.” The company took a loss of $555 million last year on the plant closures and anticipates an additional non-cash write-off of up to $960 million in 2017.

Environmentalists claimed credit for forcing the two coal plants to close, but PSEG says it was really fracking that undermined them. “The way the market works, the economics don’t work,” Bill Thompson, PSEG Power’s senior director of operations, said during a Mercer plant tour last week. “They’re not getting shut down for equipment conditions. It’s just economics.”
...
Ten years ago, the plant ran nearly every day, producing more than three million megawatt hours of electricity, according to PSEG Power. In 2016, Mercer produced a mere 1,867 megawatt hours. Last year, it operated only two days in January, when the regional power-grid operator, PJM Interconnection, called on it to meet high winter demand. The generation station has been inactive for 17 months.
...
PSEG Power still operates the Bridgeport Harbor plant in Connecticut, which is scheduled to be retired in 2021 and replaced by a gas plant. It also has ownership stakes in the Keystone and Connemaugh coal plants in Western Pennsylvania, which are built near mines and operate with high efficiency. But it sees no growth in coal.

“We won’t be investing in new coal,” Izzo said.

At Mercer, PSEG’s environmental investments are the main features of the tour. It added precipitators in 1995 to reduce soot emissions, and the first of three units to reduce nitrogen oxides, which contribute to ground-level ozone, or smog. In 2004, it added a $100 million selective catalytic reduction unit to cut nitrogen oxides, and in 2007 a $10 million carbon-injection unit to reduce mercury. In 2010, it spent $500 million to build a baghouse and scrubber to control sulfur, mercury and particulates.

“They’re very clean plants and not because they don’t run,” Izzo said. The emissions-control features now occupy two times more land on Mercer’s 114-acre site than the original power plant.
...
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/energy/pseg-shuts-down-its-last-n-j-coal-plants-its-just-economics-20170530.html
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TerryM

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Re: Coal
« Reply #744 on: May 30, 2017, 06:14:18 PM »
U.S.:  PSEG shuts down its last coal plants in New Jersey: `It's just economics'
Quote
Like many 57-year-olds, the Mercer Generation Station can still do its job, which is producing electricity from Appalachian coal for a public hungry for power. But this former workhorse of the grid has been eclipsed by a new generation of power plants, and on Thursday it will shut down for good.

Public Service Enterprise Group of Newark, N.J., announced in October that it would shut down Mercer and the Hudson Generation Station on June 1, retiring its two remaining coal-fired power plants in New Jersey, casualties of a sustained low-price environment brought on by inexpensive natural gas.

The closures take place just six years after the company’s power-generation subsidiary, PSEG Power, completed more than $1 billion in upgrades to environmental controls at the two sites to comply with new federal emissions standards. Though the company correctly anticipated stricter environmental regulations, it did not foresee the tumble in energy prices brought on by shale gas.

“We made a bet on high gas prices,” Ralph Izzo, PSEG’s chief executive, said in an interview last week. “We got that wrong.” The company took a loss of $555 million last year on the plant closures and anticipates an additional non-cash write-off of up to $960 million in 2017.

Environmentalists claimed credit for forcing the two coal plants to close, but PSEG says it was really fracking that undermined them. “The way the market works, the economics don’t work,” Bill Thompson, PSEG Power’s senior director of operations, said during a Mercer plant tour last week. “They’re not getting shut down for equipment conditions. It’s just economics.”
...
Ten years ago, the plant ran nearly every day, producing more than three million megawatt hours of electricity, according to PSEG Power. In 2016, Mercer produced a mere 1,867 megawatt hours. Last year, it operated only two days in January, when the regional power-grid operator, PJM Interconnection, called on it to meet high winter demand. The generation station has been inactive for 17 months.
...
PSEG Power still operates the Bridgeport Harbor plant in Connecticut, which is scheduled to be retired in 2021 and replaced by a gas plant. It also has ownership stakes in the Keystone and Connemaugh coal plants in Western Pennsylvania, which are built near mines and operate with high efficiency. But it sees no growth in coal.

“We won’t be investing in new coal,” Izzo said.

At Mercer, PSEG’s environmental investments are the main features of the tour. It added precipitators in 1995 to reduce soot emissions, and the first of three units to reduce nitrogen oxides, which contribute to ground-level ozone, or smog. In 2004, it added a $100 million selective catalytic reduction unit to cut nitrogen oxides, and in 2007 a $10 million carbon-injection unit to reduce mercury. In 2010, it spent $500 million to build a baghouse and scrubber to control sulfur, mercury and particulates.

“They’re very clean plants and not because they don’t run,” Izzo said. The emissions-control features now occupy two times more land on Mercer’s 114-acre site than the original power plant.
...
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/energy/pseg-shuts-down-its-last-n-j-coal-plants-its-just-economics-20170530.html


With only 3% of NJ's power now coming from coal they are within shooting distance of joining Ontario and offering industry coal free electricity, something environmentally aware boards of directors may appreciate.


Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #745 on: June 01, 2017, 04:06:57 AM »
On his fifth day in power, South Korea’s new president shut down 10 big coal-power plants
Quote
The South Korean capital, Seoul, is among the world’s most polluted cities, so it’s no surprise that air pollution was one of the key campaign issues for the newly elected president, Moon Jae-in.

That’s why, on his fifth day in power, Moon has announced that the country will temporarily shutter 10 coal power plants now and will shut them down completely within his five-year term. The move should bring respite from the choking air pollution, but it raises questions about South Korea’s energy security.
...
Nuclear power’s contribution to South Korea’s mix has fallen from 40% to 30% over the last 10 years, as plants have been decommissioned over safety issues. To make up for the fall, the contribution of coal has shot up to 40%.... The country operates 53 coal-power plants, and plans to build another 20 in the next five years.
...
https://qz.com/983626/moon-jae-in-south-koreas-new-president-is-shutting-down-10-big-coal-power-plants-in-his-first-week-in-office/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #746 on: June 02, 2017, 02:31:26 AM »
New England's Last Big Coal-Burning Power Plant Switches Off
Quote
SOMERSET, Mass. (AP) — New England's largest — and one of its last — coal-fired power plants was shutting down permanently Wednesday.

The Brayton Point Power Station was scheduled to power down before a midnight Thursday deadline, culminating a decades-long shift from coal, oil and nuclear energy to lower-cost natural gas.

The plant has burned coal since 1963 along Mount Hope Bay in Somerset, near the Rhode Island border. It has generated controversy for almost as long, with residents, fishermen and environmentalists decrying the damage that its cooling canals — nicknamed "killing canals" by activists in the 1970s — caused to fisheries.

The coal plant's final hours came on the same day that President Donald Trump's administration said he expects to withdraw the United States from a landmark global climate agreement. The Republican president has moved to delay or roll back federal regulations limiting greenhouse gas emissions while pledging to revive long-struggling U.S. coal mines.
...
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/massachusetts/articles/2017-05-31/new-englands-last-big-coal-plant-powering-down
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Coal
« Reply #747 on: June 02, 2017, 04:58:53 AM »
Trump got a threefer...

"On June 1, Public Service Enterprise Group, the parent of PSEG Power, will retire the two largest coal plants remaining in New Jersey. The Mercer and Hudson generating stations will close on Thursday, as inexpensive natural gas continues to force coal off of the grid in states across the country."

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/three-coal-plants-close-as-trump-rumored-to-exit-the-paris-climate-deal


rboyd

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Re: Coal
« Reply #748 on: June 04, 2017, 11:57:44 PM »
Vietnam Turns To Coal

"Greenhouse gas increase already outpaces GDP by a factor of three"

http://www.asiasentinel.com/econ-business/vietnam-turns-to-coal/

Sigmetnow

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Re: Coal
« Reply #749 on: June 11, 2017, 05:02:32 PM »
It seems clear that money does not make a person smart.  :-\

An Indian billionaire is forging ahead with a massive coal mine in Australia that activists say will be a disaster for the environment.
Quote
Gautam Adani said Tuesday that he had given the "green light" to his firm's $12 billion coal project in Australia's northeastern Queensland state.

"This is the largest single investment by an Indian corporation in Australia, and I believe others will follow with investments and trade deals," Adani said in a statement.

The Adani Group is also building a 240-mile railway line and an airstrip at the mine, which it says will create at least 10,000 new jobs.

Environmental groups and many politicians are bitterly opposed to the project, saying it will lead to the destruction of the environment. Greenpeace Australia described it as a "death sentence" for the Great Barrier Reef.

"The people of Australia have overwhelmingly rejected this toxic project," Greenpeace campaigner Nikola Casule said in a statement on Tuesday. "The age of coal is dead and we need real leadership to ensure a just transition away from fossil fuels."

India, where Adani is planning to ship most of the Queensland coal, is trying to make that transition despite still relying on coal for 60% of its power. The Indian government is targeting a tenfold increase in solar energy capacity by 2022, and solar power is now cheaper than electricity from coal fired power stations.

"It doesn't make sense to be planning huge long-term investments in coal when we have surplus power production and rapidly falling cost of renewable power," Vinay Rustagi, managing director of energy consultancy Bridge to India, told CNNMoney. "It is hard to see any merit in this news from an Indian perspective."

Adani doesn't see it that way. He says the project will relieve "energy poverty in India," where 300 million people still aren't connected to the electricity grid....
http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/06/news/economy/coal-mine-australia-india-adani/index.html
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