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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1850 on: May 21, 2017, 09:59:43 PM »
47 cents California gas tax.  13,000 average miles.  25 MPG average mileage.  $244.  Those are US averages,  CA may be somewhat different.  Plus a $25 to $175 flat fee.

$100 seems more than fair for EVs.

Increasing the amount paid by large trucks makes huge sense.  (It will only boost the sales of Tesla Tractors.  ;o)

BTW, I live a few miles off a CA state  highway.  Maintenance is very good.  And the state is spending large money on straightening and widening one of the narrowest, windiest stretches of roads in the country.  I wish some of the new tax money flowed to counties for road use.

vigilius

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1851 on: May 22, 2017, 05:21:18 AM »
Quote
$100 seems more than fair for EVs.

Agreed. Or we could all go for a mileage tax. Get it checked when the car is inspected or something like that.

BTW I work nights, I get to plug in my car in the parking garage- there are 8 outlets available. So I program my Leaf to charge during the wee hours when the majority of New Orleans' power comes from the Waterford 3 nuke plant just up the river. So I sometimes jokingly say my car is "atomic- powered."

(Better yet, if I am off a few days I set if to charge in the afternoon when my solar panels at the house are getting good sun. So then I get to say it's solar powered.)

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1852 on: May 22, 2017, 05:37:06 AM »
A mileage tax would be even more fair. 

For those of us who don't have annual inspections we could self-report our milage when we renew our registration each year.  Reliability checks could be carried out if we get in an accident, get a ticket, or sell our car.

Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1853 on: May 22, 2017, 06:48:25 AM »
Here's some recent data on Tesla battery performance.




Range falls from 100% to close to 90% over the first 50,000 miles or so.  And then looks like it will stay just above 90% for over  200,000 miles.

Tesla is moving to a new battery chemistry which they think will retain at least 90% charge over 300,000 miles.  Before 300k most cars have gone to the crusher.

That suggests that Tesla EVs will have a battery of some value to sell for grid/home storage work when the car is worn out.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1854 on: May 22, 2017, 07:46:45 AM »
Quote
The Financial Times tells the story of Torotrak, a British company that has been working for 6 years on a high-tech turbocharger that will help make internal combustion engines more efficient in order to meet increasingly rigorous emissions standards. It was in talks with such global automakers as Volkswagen, General Motors, and Toyota about using its device in their cars until recently. Then suddenly, the conversations came to an abrupt halt.

Adam Robson, head of Torotrak, tells the Financial Times the companies all started telling him the same thing — “We think the shift to electric vehicles is accelerating and we have only limited R&D money to invest and we are going to put all of it into the electric car revolution.” Robson says, “This is a colossal structural shift and it’s come at a pace that has never occurred in people’s careers before in this industry.”

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/05/19/renewable-energy-unstoppable-declares-financial-times/


If that's the case then most car manufacturers are right now about ready to release longer range EVs and expect that they will have to compete in a vigorous market.  Once we have 200 mile range compact and midsized EVs selling for under $25k I think it's all over for ICEVs.

I'm guessing the market will have almost totally shifted by 2030.  And I hope before....

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1855 on: May 22, 2017, 04:04:17 PM »
Here's some recent data on Tesla battery performance.




Range falls from 100% to close to 90% over the first 50,000 miles or so.  And then looks like it will stay just above 90% for over  200,000 miles.

Tesla is moving to a new battery chemistry which they think will retain at least 90% charge over 300,000 miles.  Before 300k most cars have gone to the crusher.

That suggests that Tesla EVs will have a battery of some value to sell for grid/home storage work when the car is worn out.


Assuming they're manufacture with quality components I think that by 300k mi. one would be on your 3d set of brakes, 6th set of windshield washers, 6th set of tires, and be ready to change out the wheel bearings.


I bought a plug in lawnmower with a cord in my twenties, threw it away ~ 30 years later because I was tired of looking at it and I was making a long move. Replaced two wheels, probably 10 years apart, & went through a few long cords.


I replaced a condenser fan motor run capacitor after 30+ years of continuous use in a heat pump - the old man that owned the house oiled the motors every year and assumed the motor had finally given up. It actually pulled less amps than it was designed for, I assume because the bearings had been working in for 30+ years.


If you can keep away from rust, (living in the desert works well), don't mind driving a dated design, and don't mind a little maintenance, I can see buying one in your twenties and driving it until they pull your license - which they may never do if you opted for a self driving model ;<}


Terry

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1856 on: May 22, 2017, 04:58:48 PM »
"Once we have 200 mile range compact and midsized EVs selling for under $25k I think it's all over for ICEVs."
I'm hoping (expecting) my 2002 Prius will make it to the day it can be replaced with such an EV.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1857 on: May 22, 2017, 07:05:53 PM »
TerryM wrote: "...by 300k mi. one would be on your 3d set of brakes..."

Just a note here that electric vehicles use a lot of regenerative braking, which doesn't involve the normal brake system. So wear and tear on the usual brake parts will be minimal for most drivers. :)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1858 on: May 22, 2017, 07:13:08 PM »
Daimler unveils new battery factory.  Importance of the announcement is illustrated by the attendance of Federal Chancellor Dr. Angela Merkel and Stanislaw Tillich (Minister President of Saxony).

Quote
They didn’t confirm the capacity of the plant, but it is expected to be in the gigawatt-hour range and it will employ over 1,000 workers.
...
Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche said about the new factory:

“The automotive industry is facing a fundamental transformation and we see ourselves as the driving force behind this change.* The battery factory in Kamenz is an important component in the implementation of our electric offensive. By 2022, we will have more than ten purely electric passenger cars in series. We also continue to drive forward the hybridization of our fleet. Under the EQ brand, we are creating a holistic ecosystem for e-mobility.”

It will officially go into operation in mid-2018 just in time for Mercedes’ first all-electric vehicle built from the ground up, Mercedes’ new ‘EQ’ SUV.

Daimler also has several other electric vehicle programs, like it’s all-electric Urban eTruck and it is currently building 1,500 all-electric Mercedes-Benz vans for Germany’s largest independent logistic firm....

Daimler unveils its own new battery Gigafactory for electric vehicles
https://electrek.co/2017/05/22/daimler-battery-gigafactory-electric-vehicles/

[*Now that Tesla has dragged us into it! ;) ]
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1859 on: May 22, 2017, 07:59:50 PM »
"Once we have 200 mile range compact and midsized EVs selling for under $25k I think it's all over for ICEVs."
I'm hoping (expecting) my 2002 Prius will make it to the day it can be replaced with such an EV.

Can you get another four years out of it?  That may be all it will take.

If not, buy a moderately used replacement Prius.  Or a used lower range EV if one would work for you.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1860 on: May 22, 2017, 08:06:49 PM »
Quote
Ford had a massive leadership shakeup today that saw CEO and longtime executive Mark Field ousted and replaced by Jim Hackett, the head of the automaker’s ‘Smart Mobility’ division.

The company also appointed a new executive in charge of “strategy and business model development for electrified vehicles and autonomous vehicles.”
...
https://electrek.co/2017/05/22/ford-ceo-mobility-exec-electric-vehicles/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1861 on: May 22, 2017, 08:07:00 PM »
Quote
By 2022, we will have more than ten purely electric passenger cars in series.

I wonder what that means.  Will there be ten really distinct EVs or ten cars with slight differences?

Tesla has two and getting ready to release a third.  As far as I know they only plan on adding a Model 3 sized crossover (?) and a new Roadster to their fleet. 

Ten seems like a lot.  Are they perhaps talking about a two door, a four door and a convertible version of the same basic car?

Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1862 on: May 22, 2017, 08:11:14 PM »
Quote
(Ford Motors) also appointed a new executive in charge of “strategy and business model development for electrified vehicles and autonomous vehicles

Attention!  Bursting dam. 

We've now received very strong EV signals from Mercedes, Volvo, Ford, VW and who else?

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1863 on: May 22, 2017, 09:41:21 PM »
...
We've now received very strong EV signals from Mercedes, Volvo, Ford, VW and who else?
Tesla  :P ::) :o ;D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1864 on: May 22, 2017, 10:17:24 PM »
Quote
By 2022, we will have more than ten purely electric passenger cars in series.

I wonder what that means.  Will there be ten really distinct EVs or ten cars with slight differences?

Ten different EVs one after another, because none of them really succeeds?   ;D :o


Quote
Tesla has two and getting ready to release a third.  As far as I know they only plan on adding a Model 3 sized crossover (?) and a new Roadster to their fleet. 

Ten seems like a lot.  Are they perhaps talking about a two door, a four door and a convertible version of the same basic car?

Daimler has created a new sub-brand, known as Mercedes-Benz EQ, that will specialize in selling EVs alone.

Likely they plan on offering cars at different price points, like their C-class, E-class, etc. that they have today.  That makes room for several sedans, SUVs, sportsters, probably a van or two.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1865 on: May 22, 2017, 10:34:10 PM »
...
We've now received very strong EV signals from Mercedes, Volvo, Ford, VW and who else?
Tesla  :P ::) :o ;D

Well, of course.  And Nissan/Renault.  Those companies are already in the EV business at a serious level.  What we've (I've) been waiting to see is when the other car companies admit that the future is EVs and that they are going to be serious builders.

Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1866 on: May 22, 2017, 10:36:11 PM »
Quote
By 2022, we will have more than ten purely electric passenger cars in series.

I wonder what that means.  Will there be ten really distinct EVs or ten cars with slight differences?

Ten different EVs one after another, because none of them really succeeds?   ;D :o


Quote
Tesla has two and getting ready to release a third.  As far as I know they only plan on adding a Model 3 sized crossover (?) and a new Roadster to their fleet. 

Ten seems like a lot.  Are they perhaps talking about a two door, a four door and a convertible version of the same basic car?

Daimler has created a new sub-brand, known as Mercedes-Benz EQ, that will specialize in selling EVs alone.

Likely they plan on offering cars at different price points, like their C-class, E-class, etc. that they have today.  That makes room for several sedans, SUVs, sportsters, probably a van or two.

Now we need a Toyota/Hyundai type company that specializes in the sub-luxury market.

Neven

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1867 on: May 23, 2017, 12:27:19 AM »
Today my EV arrived. It has four wheels and two 18V 5Ah batteries. Yes, it's a Makita lawnmower!



Quite happy with it, although I have to get used to no longer having to think about where the 50m cord is. And just a bit more range would've been nice as well.  ;)

Oh, and I can use the batteries on my 10-year old drill! Gotta love Makita. I wish they would make cars.
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1868 on: May 23, 2017, 12:35:45 AM »
After you've used it some please give us an update.  I've been looking at getting one for the orchard as I've got multiple Makita tools (drill, sawzall, weed trimmer) that could battery share.

And now I go to try to fix the starter cord on my 30 year old gasomower....

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1869 on: May 23, 2017, 11:21:33 AM »
Makita has earned itself a deservedly wonderful reputation.
Decades ago I contemplated the design of an autonomous lawnmower that would retreat to a solar doghouse to charge itself, then mow the yard at night, silently. Major problems were keeping it from eating basking kittens and rendering it safe from predatory types supporting themselves by hustling slightly used lawnmowers.
If these problems can be resolved, pushing a lawnmower may be passe. Otherwise Neven probably purchased the only lawnmower he'll need until they ship him off to an old folks facility.  :)


Terry

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1870 on: May 23, 2017, 04:22:16 PM »
Neven can take it with him - old folks homes have lawns, too.  (No rest for 'planet savers'  :'()

After 8 years of using my neighbor's lawn mowers (he now has a battery powered one), I bought a corded string trimmer (weed wacker), and mow my 'meadow' (it would be a lawn if it had grass - but the wild flowers are more fun) a few times each year.  (20 years ago I used a scythe to shorten grass and weeds over my septic system and around my home.  I miss that tool.) 

Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1871 on: May 23, 2017, 05:11:31 PM »
Makita has earned itself a deservedly wonderful reputation.
Decades ago I contemplated the design of an autonomous lawnmower that would retreat to a solar doghouse to charge itself, then mow the yard at night, silently. Major problems were keeping it from eating basking kittens and rendering it safe from predatory types supporting themselves by hustling slightly used lawnmowers.
If these problems can be resolved, pushing a lawnmower may be passe. Otherwise Neven probably purchased the only lawnmower he'll need until they ship him off to an old folks facility.  :)


Terry

You mean like this one?



Review of ten best...

http://www.toptenreviews.com/home/outdoor/best-robot-lawn-mowers/


The world is going right along without us, Terry.

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/robotic-lawn-mowers/

TerryM

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« Reply #1872 on: May 23, 2017, 07:03:01 PM »
It looks as though they still haven't worked out some of the problems I'd identified back in the day. Eat just one cute kitten and the lawsuit will break you. Even chewing through a neighbor's prize zinnia's won't win friends.


I think my vaporware would run circles around their hardware. ;<}


Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1873 on: May 23, 2017, 07:44:36 PM »
My first battery-powered lawn mower used a 40-pound, custom lead-acid battery.  Maneuvering that weight around my yard caused the (light-weight) mower to essentially disintegrate after one season.  SunJoe was nice enough to replace it with their new model, which uses half-a-shoe sized, 40 Volt lithium battery.  It feels light enough to be a toy, but has worked well for several years now (with extra batteries on hand to be used as needed).

Image: newer mower in front, older behind.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 01:04:49 AM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1874 on: May 23, 2017, 08:35:55 PM »
Quote
Ford had a massive leadership shakeup today that saw CEO and longtime executive Mark Field ousted and replaced by Jim Hackett, the head of the automaker’s ‘Smart Mobility’ division.

The company also appointed a new executive in charge of “strategy and business model development for electrified vehicles and autonomous vehicles.”
...
https://electrek.co/2017/05/22/ford-ceo-mobility-exec-electric-vehicles/

Even for those who have the vision, executing that vision is extremely difficult.   Legacy auto-makers have billions of dollars tied up in ICE vehicle manufacturing, which will be as worthless as oil assets once the switch to EVs is accepted as inevitable.

Did Ford Nix Its CEO Because He Was Too Much of a Visionary?
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/ford-s-fields-when-agent-change-trips-n763116
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1875 on: May 23, 2017, 08:40:02 PM »
A California utility company offers a rebate to EV owners.

Quote
...
Further, SCE’s program can actually apply to the same VIN number up to three times – that is, if a car is bought new, then sold to another owner in SCE’s service area, and sold to another owner, all three can receive the same rebate.  So it’s likely that just about everyone qualifies for it.

Southern California Edison offers $450 credit to any EV/PHEV drivers
https://electrek.co/2017/05/22/southern-california-edison-offer-450/
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1876 on: May 23, 2017, 08:45:19 PM »
What I can find, here and there, suggests that Ford was looking for a new CEO who could run the company better - and - transition to new tech quicker.


Quote
Bill Ford: I didn't fire Mark Fields, he chose to resign after a discussion he and I had Friday.      
Ford needs innovation, Executive Chairman Bill Ford told CNBC during an interview Monday.

"We need to be quicker in our decision making ... have clarity in our messaging and communication, and also need a leader who's transformed a company before," the chairman said, discussing the automaker's decision to tap Jim Hackett as its next CEO.

Ford has said that they don't expect to have a self-driving car before 2021.  That's got to scare them because other companies may grab a huge portion of the robotaxi market before Ford can get a foot in the door.

Expect a major drop in overall vehicle demand as we move to robotaxis.  It's a serious game of musical chairs that the car companies are being forced into.  Someone is going to be late to sit down and fall on their butt.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1877 on: May 23, 2017, 09:22:25 PM »
Decent, less expensive EVs are on the way!  (Expect range to be much less than 200 miles / 322 km.)

2017 smart fortwo electric drive to be available at starting MSRP of $23,800 in US – before EV incentive
Quote
Earlier this year, Daimler announced that it is converting the Smart brand to all-electric in North America and discontinuing gas-powered Smart cars.

By September, Canadian and American dealerships will stop receiving gas-powered smart cars and the 2017 electric smart model year cars will become the only options.

Today, Daimler confirmed pricing of the 2017 smart fortwo electric drive and it received a small price reduction to a starting MSRP of $23,800.

It’s a $1,200 price cut for the coupe version, while the cabrio remains the same price – $28,000.

The 2017 models not only come with a price reduction but also with several performance increases like a faster onboard charger and 80 hp motor versus 74 hp....
https://electrek.co/2017/05/23/2017-smart-fortwo-electric-drive/
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rboyd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1878 on: May 23, 2017, 09:43:43 PM »
I remember the CEO of Intel (of "only the paranoid survive" fame) many years ago stating that his business was to invent new products that would immediately cannibalize his current products. Either Intel did it to itself, or someone else would. That was in the same business though and the new products were also highly profitable, due to declining production costs at scale. Even they are now struggling, having missed the move to mobile devices.

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/05/02/476481238/left-behind-in-the-mobile-revolution-intel-struggles-to-innovate

The new product areas for the car manufacturers have a high probability of being less profitable, with possible lower sales through ride-sharing (especially with self-driving cars) and competitors that work more in an Amazon-style model of invest big and keep margins low (or even negative) for years to gain the network dominance before seeing real profits. Ride-share fleet buyers will also tend to get big bulk discounts, and will select for less expensive add-ons. In addition, EV's directly threaten the service business of the dealership network as they need much less maintenance. To add to the problem, the areas of electronics and batteries are not the ICE manufacturers core areas of competency.

In recent years the US market ICE car manufacturers have kept up demand through very cheap financing and extended loan terms (e.g. 7 year loan for a car, unheard of until quite recently), together with increased levels of leasing (reducing the monthly cost). Profits have gone up as more expensive upgrades, and loaded mini-SUV's, have increased as a share of sales. The auto-financing market may be faltering, which will provide a big hit to sales. That would force CEO's to focus on the very near term future. The ouster of the Ford CEO seems to be a good data point for this - should have been focused on getting out those new loaded ICE SUV models!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-23/why-america-s-auto-debt-boom-fuels-bubble-talk-quicktake-q-a

Other than a crash in the Nasdaq (possible, as it does look very "bubbly"), the ICE manufacturers may well be outmanoeuvred by their well funded competitors. The latter don't have the need to maintain sizeable legacy profits, have possible huge write-offs of ICE current capacity, nor a dealership network to keep happy.

Will be interesting to see if this gives a big opportunity for the Chinese manufacturers with their EV market there rapidly growing and lots of government support. If the purchasers are the ride-sharing companies, rather than consumers, there may be much less resistance to buying Chinese. The Chinese will also come in at the low end, given their focus on cheaper models, which may be a better match for the ride-sharing buyers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-autoshow-china-electric-idUSKBN14V1H3

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/17/baidus-self-driving-cars-begin-public-test-in-wuzhen-china/

The Chinese government may also have an advantage in being able to rapidly deploy the infrastructural and legal changes required - a relatively efficient autocratic bureaucracy does have some advantages!

http://knowledge.ckgsb.edu.cn/2016/11/21/technology/self-driving-cars-china/





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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1879 on: May 23, 2017, 10:12:48 PM »
It looks as though they still haven't worked out some of the problems I'd identified back in the day. Eat just one cute kitten and the lawsuit will break you. Even chewing through a neighbor's prize zinnia's won't win friends.


I think my vaporware would run circles around their hardware. ;<}


Terry

some modern robots like the one i own for vacuum cleaning come with limiter tools that draw virtual lines which the machine would not cross, i.e. so that it wouldn't fall down the stairs or hit sensitive furniture and equipment. i'm sure that this is available for all kinds of robots nowadays and where it isn't it will very soon be. if i didn't get you wrong that would solve one of your main concerns that the machine would enter unwanted territory :-)

rboyd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1880 on: May 23, 2017, 11:08:40 PM »
If self-driving cars work and turn out to be much safer than human drivers there are some benefits that I had not thought about - removing lots of costly societal overhead:

- Lots of unemployed personal injury and insurance company lawyers
- Less busy court systems and policemen spending time combating serious crime rather than cruising in their souped up macho cars
- Less business for the "independent" experts that will say whatever means they keep getting repeat business. My sister has this after an accident, her medical experts correctly stating her inability to do her job and the insurance medical experts swearing blind that she could still do that same job

If we can cash in this EV/Self-drive dividend as an actual reduction in consumption, which will actually improve general wellness/happiness, will help reduce reduce society's CO2 and general ecological footprint.

Integrate with a proper high speed train system and we can also remove much of the airline/airport infrastructure.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1881 on: May 24, 2017, 01:21:37 AM »
Quote
The new product areas for the car manufacturers have a high probability of being less profitable, with possible lower sales

GM bought a big hunk of Lyft.  That, I assume, gives them a route to becoming a robotaxi company that builds its own vehicles.

GM is also pulling out of Europe.  There's some sort of new thinking happening inside GM.

Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1882 on: May 24, 2017, 01:23:41 AM »
If self-driving cars work and turn out to be much safer than human drivers there are some benefits that I had not thought about - removing lots of costly societal overhead:

- Lots of unemployed personal injury and insurance company lawyers
- Less busy court systems and policemen spending time combating serious crime rather than cruising in their souped up macho cars
- Less business for the "independent" experts that will say whatever means they keep getting repeat business. My sister has this after an accident, her medical experts correctly stating her inability to do her job and the insurance medical experts swearing blind that she could still do that same job

If we can cash in this EV/Self-drive dividend as an actual reduction in consumption, which will actually improve general wellness/happiness, will help reduce reduce society's CO2 and general ecological footprint.

Integrate with a proper high speed train system and we can also remove much of the airline/airport infrastructure.

A decrease in hospital visits.  Less physical therapy.  Less permanent disability.

Fewer tow truck calls. 

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1883 on: May 24, 2017, 09:51:32 PM »
U.S. government sues Fiat Chrysler over excess emissions
Quote
The U.S. government filed a civil lawsuit on Tuesday accusing Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV (FCHA.MI) of illegally using software to bypass emission controls in 104,000 diesel vehicles sold since 2014.

The U.S. Justice Department lawsuit, filed in U.S. District court in Detroit, is a procedural step that may ramp up pressure on Fiat Chrysler and comes amid growing scrutiny of diesels by regulators around the world.
...
The lawsuit asserts the Italian-American automaker placed undeclared "defeat devices," or auxiliary emissions controls, in 2014-2016 Fiat Chrysler diesel vehicles that led to "substantially" higher than allowable levels of nitrogen oxide, or NOx pollution, which is linked to smog formation and respiratory problems.

The lawsuit asks a court to require Fiat Chrysler to fix the vehicles and bar it from selling vehicles with excess emissions as well as unspecified civil penalties. EPA said in January the maximum fine is about $4.6 billion.

Fiat Chrysler faces a separate criminal investigation on the same emissions issue by the Justice Department and probes by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and many U.S. states.

In January, EPA and California accused Fiat Chrysler of illegally using undisclosed software to allow excess diesel emissions in 104,000 U.S. 2014-2016 Jeep Grand Cherokees and Dodge Ram 1500 trucks....
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fiat-chrysler-emissions-idUSKBN18J28F
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1884 on: May 24, 2017, 10:03:45 PM »
Electric Vehicle Costs Must Fall by 20% in India, Mahindra Says
Quote
Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd., India’s only manufacturer of electric passenger cars, said costs to produce the vehicles need to come down by about 20 percent to make prices attractive as the government looks to encourage adoption with favorable tax treatment.

The government needs to support research and development activities of suppliers to localize component manufacturing, Mahindra’s Managing Director Pawan Goenka said at a press conference in Mumbai Wednesday. The automaker imports almost half of the materials it uses in electric vehicles making them costlier, he said.
...
Battery prices are expected to decline by as much as 25 percent in the next three years as volumes increase, Goenka said. Batteries account for about one-third the total cost of an electric vehicle.

Mahindra Electric Mobility Ltd., a subsidiary of the automaker, aims to expand its capacity to make electric vehicles almost 10-fold to 5,000 units a month in two to three years, Goenka said without elaborating on the type of vehicles that will be produced. The company, which sells about 100 electric vehicles a year, plans to introduce a 32-seat electric bus and three-wheeled electric rickshaws in 18 months, he said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-24/electric-vehicle-costs-must-fall-by-20-in-india-mahindra-says


The auto rickshaw or tuk-tuk is a very popular vehicle in Asia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_rickshaw
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1885 on: May 24, 2017, 10:33:50 PM »
Electric autorickshaws (the very common three wheel vehicle in India and Bangladesh) would make an credible difference in both air quality and noise levels.

Bring 'em on....

TerryM

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« Reply #1886 on: May 24, 2017, 10:52:26 PM »
Electric autorickshaws (the very common three wheel vehicle in India and Bangladesh) would make an credible difference in both air quality and noise levels.

Bring 'em on....


And in Havana - as Coco Cabs


Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1887 on: May 25, 2017, 02:40:10 AM »
"The evolution from roads designed for cars, to streets designed for people. Nice graphic via @bikeyface. #multimodal "
https://mobile.twitter.com/brenttoderian/status/765568251979902976
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1888 on: May 25, 2017, 05:46:08 AM »
How about a version for self-driving cars?

Like the last panel - green stuff, benches, bike racks, bike lanes, raised crosswalks (lifts for disabled) and -

Main travel through town routes. 

Three (or four) lanes.  One way only.  Right and left lanes for cars entering and turning.  Center lane for moving on through.

No cross traffic if possible.  If a car does need to cross, turn in direction of traffic flow, move to far lane, turn off at next cross.  Where main E/W and N/S artery cross use overpass.  If possible make the center lane(s) a non-stop trip across town.

No parking.  Stop/discharge/load in limited number of pullouts (one per block?) or cross streets. 

Want to really encourage bike use?  Build a couple of elevated bike routes that one could ride from one end of town to the other without stopping.  Build off/on ramps every 4-6 blocks.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1889 on: May 25, 2017, 09:10:09 PM »
 New York City:

DOT to Widen Sidewalks on 7th Avenue Between Penn Station and Times Square
The city will also make two blocks of Broadway car-free this summer on a trial basis.
Quote
Midtown sidewalks are notoriously too skinny to handle the huge numbers of people on foot near Penn Station. The pedestrian crush around the nation’s busiest transit hub routinely flows beyond the boundaries of the curb, and people are forced to walk in car lanes. It’s uncomfortable, stressful, and dangerous.

But people on foot will soon have some breathing room. DOT plans to expand sidewalks on Seventh Avenue between 42nd Street and 34th Street [PDF]. The Manhattan Community Board 5 transportation committee endorsed the project last night.

Also in the works: Two blocks of Broadway — between 36th Street and 37th Street and between 39th Street and 40th Street — will be going car-free for a summer trial.

The plan for Seventh Avenue calls for low-cost sidewalk extensions and bus boarding islands along the west curb. On the southeast corner of intersections where drivers can turn left off the avenue, DOT will also install painted curb extensions that shave two traffic lanes off pedestrian crossings....
http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/05/23/dot-to-widen-sidewalks-on-7th-avenue-between-penn-station-and-times-square/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1890 on: May 25, 2017, 09:31:27 PM »
 Just some greedy lawyers? Or another sign that diesel technology simply can't be made clean.

GM is being dragged into ‘Dieselgate’ scandal, customers file class action over ‘VW-like defeat devices’ in over 700,000 trucks
Quote
After Volkswagen, Mitsubishi, Chrysler, and Daimler, now GM becomes the latest automaker being dragged into the ongoing ‘Dieselgate’ scandal.

Customers have now filed a class-action lawsuit accusing the company of using ‘VW-like defeat devices’ in over 700,000 diesel trucks from 2011 to 2016.

The suit was filed with the District Court of the Eastern District of Michigan in Detroit. Bloomberg reviewed it:

“People who own or lease more than 705,000 GM Duramax diesel trucks filed a class-action lawsuit Thursday, claiming GM installed multiple such devices in two models of heavy-duty trucks from 2011 to 2016. The 190-page complaint is littered with 83 references to VW, and asserts that the environmental damage caused by each truck could surpass that of the German automaker’s vehicles.”

We reached out to GM for a comment on the lawsuit and we will update if we get an answer.

Update: GM sent the following statement:

“These claims are baseless and we will vigorously defend ourselves. The Duramax Diesel Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra comply with all U.S. EPA and CARB emissions regulations.”

While Dieselgate was a disaster for VW and the cost is mounting up to over $20 billion, it accelerated their plans for electric vehicles and showed the industry that they likely reached the full potential of diesel engines and therefore, new technologies are required.
...
https://electrek.co/2017/05/25/gm-dieselgate-scandal/
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rboyd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1891 on: May 25, 2017, 10:15:04 PM »
Looks like diesel engines in light vehicles are as good as dead, "clean diesel" being an oxymoron.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1892 on: May 29, 2017, 02:13:45 AM »
A year of digging through code yields “smoking gun” on VW, Fiat diesel cheats
Current US and EU emissions testing is insufficient to confirm compliance.
Quote
...
This latest research finally offers a smoking gun. For more than a year, researchers studied 926 firmware images from the VWs and Audis identified by the EPA in 2015, and they found a potential defeat device in 406 of those firmware images. All the cars studied had Engine Control Unit (ECU) systems developed by Bosch.

Interestingly, Volkswagen may not have written any of the code that enabled its scandal, although it may have requested certain functions from Bosch. The researchers note: “We have found no evidence that automobile manufacturers write any of the code running on the ECU [Engine Control Unit]. All code we analyzed in this work was documented in documents copyrighted by Bosch and identified automakers as the intended customers.”
...
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/05/volkswagen-bosch-fiat-diesel-emissions-cheats-cracked-open-in-new-research/
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ghoti

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« Reply #1893 on: May 29, 2017, 06:20:03 PM »
These ECUs all have software that is data driven so they can be easily updated to  match emission test routines. Saying the automakers never "write the code" is a silly statement - they hire Bosch to do it to meet strict requirements.

rboyd

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« Reply #1894 on: May 29, 2017, 06:28:05 PM »
Bosch was "just following orders". The whole thing is a large scale criminal conspiracy against the public, all these executives should be going to jail to send a message to the rest. The last thing we need is a slap on the wrist for the executive cheaters when we are trying to reduce emissions. Te cheaters need to understand that there will be severe consequences.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #1895 on: May 30, 2017, 02:51:10 AM »
Agreement reached with management and union to build electric cars on existing production lines at the Mercedes-Benz plant in Rastatt, Germany.

Mercedes-Benz secures manufacturing capacity to produce compact electric vehicles
Quote
Markus Schäfer, Member of the Divisional Board of Mercedes-Benz Cars for Production and Supply Chain, made the announcement:

“Our Mercedes-Benz car plants in Germany play a decisive role in electric mobility. They are centres of competence for the production of EVs in the global production network of Mercedes-Benz Cars. Thanks to highly flexible structures, we are able to integrate electric vehicles in the regular series production in our plants. At the same time, we are increasing our competitiveness with the efficient integration of Industry 4.0 applications. This allows us to benefit from the opportunities of electric mobility, while considerably reducing the required investment,”

Rastatt is Mercedes-Benz’s biggest plant for compact vehicles. It employs 6,500 people and it manufactures 300,000 vehicles per year.
https://electrek.co/2017/05/29/mercedes-produce-compact-electric-vehicles/
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #1896 on: May 30, 2017, 08:59:00 AM »
 Daimler and Mercedes will offer 10 new EVs by 2022.  They've moved their timeline back from 2025.

The game's afoot....

TerryM

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« Reply #1897 on: May 30, 2017, 07:40:44 PM »
If Bosch wrote the bad code for both VW & for Fiat/Dodge, should all Bosch EMF's be checked for "cheater" code?


Would fining a domestic manufacturer much less than a foreign competitor fall under unfair trade practices, just as Drumph is drawing attention to these trade deals?


If large diesel trucks can't pass American emission tests without cheating, and E-Trucks are still on the drawing boards, how will American transportation proceed?



Terry

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1898 on: May 30, 2017, 07:47:23 PM »
...

If large diesel trucks can't pass American emission tests without cheating, and E-Trucks are still on the drawing boards, how will American transportation proceed?

Terry


"Last week, ‘Tesla Semi’, the automaker’s upcoming all-electric heavy truck, got an official release date: September 28th.
    That’s just 4 months away and we think it could hit production, at least low volume production for pilot fleets, quicker than most people think."

Tesla Semi: everything we know about Tesla’s upcoming all-electric truck
https://electrek.co/2017/05/25/tesla-semi-electric-truck/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #1899 on: May 31, 2017, 08:12:33 PM »
Fuel-cell loving Hyundai is making an all-electric bus!

Hyundai unveils all-electric bus with 180 miles of range on a 256 kWh battery pack
Quote
...China’s BYD and America’s Protera are seen as market leaders in electric buses, but the economics of battery-powered are making so much sense right now that more companies are moving into the segment.

Ryan Popple, CEO of Proterra, recently said that electric buses are now cheaper than diesel/CNG and could dominate the market within 10 years.
...
https://electrek.co/2017/05/31/hyundai-electric-bus/
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