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Espen

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Petermann Gletscher / Petermann Fjord / North West Greenland
« on: February 23, 2013, 06:15:42 PM »
Petermann looks suspicious, will it surprise us once more this season (2013)?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 12:03:07 AM by Espen »
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Neven

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Re: Petermann?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 06:33:00 PM »
Hi Espen, how exactly is it looking suspicious? Any new cracks?

One would think Petermann will be quiet for a while now.
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 07:20:50 PM »
Hi Neven,

Yes I agree she should be calm for a while, logically , but I have noticed some shades in the images from DMI, that is worth investigating during the season?
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Gray-Wolf

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Re: Petermann Glacier
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 12:34:08 AM »
Well at least we're in virgin territory so we need not be bound by looking to the way Petermann used to typically behave? I think we are free to speculate as to why we find ourselves where we are and whether this signals a move towards a different mode of 'working' for this 'drain' glacier?

How close is the ocean water to the 'lip' into the basin beyond? What happens as the 'ice tongue' recedes? does it become thinner? does the ice mass beyond speed up to push it faster forward?

I think we may be about to see how we accelerate ice loss from the G.I.S.?

« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 11:07:15 AM by Gray-Wolf »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 10:34:17 AM »
Gray-Wolf,

Yes I am pretty sure we have a new set of standards, when we look at the various glaciers in the northern parts of Greenland.
I don't see records of so many important glacier movements in one season, as seen last season (2012),
we had Petermann: Big calving, Steensby: First ever reported calving, Zachariae: The ice tongue separation, Newman Bugt unnamed glacier: Calving.
Yes 2013 will be an interesting season glacier wise!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 11:57:10 AM by Espen »
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Re: Petermann Glacier
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 03:56:27 PM »
Seeing as we are now beyond 'historic' measure of retreat it is hard to figure whether we should , as Neven points out, expect a period of extension before the next cracks/calving occurs or whether it's retread upslope continues?

If the fjord is below sea level all the way to the basin beyond then what is to stop the warm bottom waters penetrating ever further into the Fjord? If so then we should expect further destabilization of the glacier and further thinning/calving events?

It will be interesting to see how those 'spur' glaciers react once the main glacier has retreated beyond them? Some very big 'splashes as they drop into the Fjord below (and wobbling of the glacier tongue as the waves impact them?).
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 08:10:50 PM »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 08:22:25 PM »
The Melt is on:

When studying the 250M Modis from Petermann Fjord and Glacier, it is now clear the surface (snow) melt is on, the sea ice structure is clearly seen, both in the fjord and in Kennedy Channel:

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/imagery/subsets/?subset=Arctic_r03c03.2013108.aqua.250m
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CraigsIsland

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Re: Petermann Glacier
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 12:36:02 AM »
good eye; bad news  :o

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Re: Petermann Glacier
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2013, 01:17:22 PM »
In perhaps not entirely unrelated news, NASA Operation IceBridge have just announced on their Facebook page that:

IceBridge will fly a 7 hour science mission today over the Humboldt and Petermann Glaciers in northwest Greenland.

https://www.facebook.com/NasaOperationIcebridge
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Hunter

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2013, 04:59:40 PM »
Petermann Yesterday (4-20-13)

Credit to my friend, the Icebridge Navigator




Hunter

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2013, 05:01:20 PM »
Petermann Yesterday (4-20-13)

Credit to my friend, the Icebridge Navigator

Hunter

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2013, 05:05:15 PM »
Petermann Yesterday (4-20-13)

Credit to my friend, the Icebridge Navigator

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2013, 05:36:04 PM »
Hunter & Icebridge Navigator


WOW!


Terry

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2013, 05:39:59 PM »
Hunter & Icebridge Navigator

WOW!

Terry

Exactly. O_O

Hunter

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2013, 05:57:11 PM »
Petermann Yesterday (4-20-13)

Credit to my friend, the Icebridge Navigator


(forgot the last 3 pics)

Hunter

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2013, 06:06:04 PM »
And im sure someone wants to see the old crashed kee-bird.  You can see some pics of this on google earth and there is a movie about it on youtube, sad story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kee_Bird
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 05:48:46 PM by Hunter »

Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2013, 06:43:59 AM »
Hunter;


Great images thanx!! :)
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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2013, 04:41:53 PM »
Awesome pictures of Petermann. Looooove them. I was actually drinking coffee saturday morning watching the P3 flight track in real time, here is my screen-shot that I was planing to turn into a blog post later this week with some of the awesome and very public IceBridge data that the same people and the same plane collected in 2003, 2003, 2007, 2010, and now again in 2013.
A Sailor in a Changing Climate
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2013, 05:34:06 PM »
Hello Andreas;
By checking the above images supplied by Hunter from Petermann, I noticed the first contributory glacier entering from Hall Land (cant find the name) it was just in front of the calving point in July 2012, but now Petermann passed by at some few 100 meters? What is the average speed of Petermann?
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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 08:17:47 PM »
@Espen:

The tiny side glacier near the north-western terminus of Petermann Gletscher is not named, I just checked reports by Drs. Coppinger (1876), Koch (1928), and Higgins (1991) who all show this glacier without a name.

Petermann has been advancing historically by about ~1 km/year (Higgins, 1991) which has been increasing to perhaps 1.2 km/year over the last few years. One can see this advance really well from NASA's IceBridge data along identical flight paths that show very distinct topography of the ice and its melt-channels that can be traced from year to year. The attachment shows two slices along the glacier using radar for under-ice and laser altimeter for surface topography from 2010 and 2011. Sliding one into the other for maximum correlation, I get an average speed of 1.26 km/year between these two years.

EDIT: Figure caption contains an error, the glacier is grounded on land near km-0 in the plot. One of my co-authors made me redo all figures for a more pleasing zero reference as the grounding line instead my silly -19 km.
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 08:44:23 PM »
Andreas;

Thanx for the answer, so the advance fits my sighting, my current info on grounding from edge is +/- 55 kms.
But I know that glacier got a name (female) as I recall it, but cant find the damn map! Well it is Monday! 
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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2013, 09:51:43 PM »
Here is an animation of the calving events in 2010 and 2012 plus a fake calving in 2009.
The Petermann Express:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_a0Tecpig0jUTgtU3FhRUIwQ00/edit?usp=sharing
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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2013, 04:38:14 PM »
Checking out Landsat I stumbled over a fissure I never noticed before, although it is pretty far from the present calving front of Petermann Glestcher (aprox. 65 km). The fissure is located of Kap Bemerton and opposite Porsild Glestcher, and it is about 5 km in length, it may be a thing to watch?

Click on image to enlarge! 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 05:00:38 PM by Espen »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2013, 06:27:17 PM »
I wondered how much the funnel-shaped form of Petermann Fjord has to Petermann Glaciers flow rate. The narrowest point in the fjord is approximately at Edith Glacier at the beginning of the fjord and the widest point is down by Porsild Glacier at the bottom of the fjord. What I find most interesting is that the calving front is now in an area of the fjord which only gets wider and wider, and logically this should affect the glacier's speed and subsequent calvings.
What are your opinions and thoughts about this, below you will find selected width points in the fjord, all points starting from the beginning of the fjord.

Width points at:

Edith Glacier 16,4 km

Unnamed Glacier 18,0 km

Belgrave Glacier 18,8 km (where the calving front is now)

Faith Glacier 19,0 km

Sigurd Berg Glacier 20,6 km

Porsild Glacier 21,4 km
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 03:26:33 PM »
BTW today is the birthday of Pll-2012 :)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 06:17:00 PM by Espen »
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TerryM

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 07:30:01 PM »
Espen


Weren't you the first to spot it making it's break for freedom? I remember that I wasn't even looking since the fast ice was still in place.
Andreas and his mates managed to get into the Fjord behind PII-2012 while the ice island was still trying to make it into Hall Basin. [size=78%]http://icyseas.org/author/muenchow/[/size] has some wonderful first hand Arctic exploration accounts of that voyage.


We're a little behind 2012 in Nares Strait this year and this may have an effect on the September Minimum figures. Nares only advects about a tenth of what Fram does, but it's often very thick, MYI that exits there.


I can't imaging a calving event at Petermann this year, but I certainly wasn't expecting one last year either. Every time I think I've figured out something about Arctic ice - it changes.


Terry

Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 07:45:03 PM »
No I was "beaten" by Arcticicelost80 but we are talking minutes :)

I don't know when we can expect a new calf, the only fracture worth talking about is of Kap Bemerton well inside the glacier aprox. 65 km from the present calving front. But I expect more action further north Ryder and Ostenfeldt just to mention a few.

Click on image to enlarge!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 11:31:35 AM by Espen »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2013, 11:03:38 PM »
Just preparing for the season ;):

Please click on image to enlarge!

« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 09:42:49 AM by Espen »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2013, 12:47:50 PM »
With some help from Landsat. This image contains 6 large images and is then reduced to web use, due to "weight" limits on this site.

Please click on image to enlarge!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 12:53:05 PM by Espen »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2013, 02:03:21 PM »
P2-2012 update:

Please click on image to enlarge!

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Phil.

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2013, 07:18:15 PM »
Espen


Weren't you the first to spot it making it's break for freedom? I remember that I wasn't even looking since the fast ice was still in place.
Andreas and his mates managed to get into the Fjord behind PII-2012 while the ice island was still trying to make it into Hall Basin. [size=78%]http://icyseas.org/author/muenchow/[/size] has some wonderful first hand Arctic exploration accounts of that voyage.


We're a little behind 2012 in Nares Strait this year and this may have an effect on the September Minimum figures. Nares only advects about a tenth of what Fram does, but it's often very thick, MYI that exits there.


I can't imaging a calving event at Petermann this year, but I certainly wasn't expecting one last year either. Every time I think I've figured out something about Arctic ice - it changes.


Terry


It looks to me that the 'plug' in the Hall Basin will disintegrate in about a day then I'd expect the fractured ice trapped behind it to head south, also with the back pressure gone I'd expect some fragmentation in the mouth of Petermann.

Espen

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Re: Petermann Glacier/North West Greenland
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2013, 07:47:48 PM »
Phil,

Hall Basin will be cleared in a few days, and the sea ice covered part of Petermann Fjord soon there after.
We may see some mini calvings during August / September but I don't expect a real one, but you never know!
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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2013, 02:43:08 PM »
Long time no see!

Please click on image to enlarge and for better deatails!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 03:44:40 PM by Espen »
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Phil.

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2013, 02:55:11 PM »
Indeed Espen, I was just looking at that same image on MODIS.  It seems to me that there is a slight northern drift in the strait with in situ melting if you compare with the earlier image today.

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2013, 03:53:44 PM »
Phil,

Yes; there is a lot of in-situ melting around the clock, Nares, North and North East.
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2013, 11:15:56 AM »
Believe it or not, Petermann is preparing a new calf, two new cracks have evolved since June. These 2 new cracks will not result in such large calvings we saw in 2010 and 2012, as they are relatively close to the current calving front, respectively approx. 1 and 2.5 km, but it shows that Petermann Glacier and for that matter the ice sheet is on the move. The landsat image below shows the new fissures.

Please click on the image to enlarge and better details:
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 12:03:21 PM by Espen »
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no1der

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2013, 06:26:11 PM »
Espen - Could it be that flow from Faith Gl. is causing that part of last year's calving front to flake off?

Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2013, 06:30:40 PM »
Espen - Could it be that flow from Faith Gl. is causing that part of last year's calving front to flake off?
HI no1der

It may be so, although I have no idea what forces are behind Faith Glacier, but for sure it is a factor in the whole game!

And you are right it will probably be a "flake".
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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2013, 01:44:32 AM »
Another glimpse through the clouds.
Fairly rapidly approaching the 2012 calving front (though some melt to go yet...).
It is fascinating how dynamic the ice is.

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2013, 05:00:08 PM »
Today's MODIS shows melting back to the calving front today.

Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2013, 08:03:38 PM »
The next calving can be expected anytime soon, that is at least what I can tell from today's Modis image, it will be around 6 km2 and is along the fissure line 1 km from the present calving front I reported above in this thread (August 2 2013).

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,53.msg11365.html#msg11365

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/imagery/subsets/?subset=Arctic_r03c03.2013223.aqua.250m
« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 08:17:22 PM by Espen »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2013, 10:43:33 PM »
Petermann showed again today:

I believe we had a fringe calving recently?
Look for the arrows.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 11:00:16 PM by Espen »
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2013, 02:13:03 PM »
Petermann calving

Seems like we have a little calf? Follow the arrow! Left side of the calving front

Click on image to enlarge!
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2013, 07:11:54 PM »
With greetings from Petermann and the rest of Greenland

Canada she is yours now, take good care of her:
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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2013, 07:43:23 PM »
Petermann is EXACTLY where it was last year on this date (area wise).  The shape of the terminus and it's position relative to the valleys north and south of it is unchanged. There are no major fractures sen either.  This summer has been the coldest in at least 7 years in NW Greenland as well.
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Espen

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2013, 08:09:49 PM »
weatherintel,


Did you check the name of that iceberg? ;)
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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2013, 01:02:13 AM »
This summer has been the coldest  in NW Greenland as well.


One cold summer will hardly put a dent in a glacier's movement. That's just an itty bitty baby wobble  (not even a step) back toward what used to be normal.   The converse - the warmest in at least 7 years - would however have a significant impact being ((dare i say)- another huge step for mankind?) away from what used to be normal.   Peterman calved off a huge amount, 370 km^2  from 2010 to 2012 but that was only maybe 15% of the ice mass lost during that time - the rest being lost to ocean melt. 

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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2013, 10:51:45 PM »
Erased wrong dates
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 11:17:25 PM by Espen »
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Re: Petermann Gletscher / North West Greenland
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2013, 11:30:56 PM »
Petermann Glacier August 18 2013:

Please click on image/animation to enlarge:
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