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Author Topic: But, but, but, China....  (Read 63567 times)

TerryM

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #350 on: March 20, 2017, 06:07:21 PM »
China reducing their coal huh???

http://www.desdemonadespair.net/2017/03/china-kickstarting-new-coal-boom-in.html?m=1


China kickstarting new coal boom in Pakistan



(Climate Home) – Chinese investments are speeding up new coal developments in the Thar region of Pakistan, despite local water scarcity and pollution and an abundance of solar energy potential.

The CEO of Sindh Engro Coal Mining Company (SECM), Shamsuddin Ahmad Shaikh, said on Thursday that with government and investor support – particularly from China – its coal developments in Thar are running quicker than expected.

SECM is developing a 1,320MW coal power plant in Thar which is expected to be completed by June 2019.

Also under development is the Sino-Sindh Resources Limited (SSRL)’s open pit mine, which is expected to produce 6.5m metric tonnes a year. It will reach commercial operation as early as 2018. Coal from this pit will power a 1,320MW plant, expected to be operational by 2019.

Addressing a seminar in Karachi, Shaikh said that SECM can “considerably” reduce electricity costs to 6¢ per unit once its Thar coal production reaches a capacity of 4,000MW.

Thar’s provincial chief minister Syed Murad Ali Shah, said the coal projects will “change the face” of Pakistan’s biggest city Karachi and Sindh, the province in which Thar is located. […]




Will moving the source of both CO2 & particulate matter closer to the equator have a measurable effect on weather & or climate?


Terry

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #351 on: March 23, 2017, 04:24:18 PM »
Video of an interview with someone from Rocky Mountain Institute on China change in energy policy towards renewables.

1)  China has decreased its coal consumption for the third year in a row

2)  Solar has been doubling its installations of solar annually

Good video. .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdkKNq7m7J0
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Sigmetnow

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #352 on: March 26, 2017, 03:25:25 PM »
Jing-Jin-Ji: China Planning Megalopolis the Size of New England
... While it is supposed to become a motor for innovation and growth within China, some experts think Jing-Ji-Ji could also become a model of sustainable growth for the rest of the country and the world.

"All eyes are on the Jing-Jin-Ji region as a testing ground for innovative solutions," according to an October 2015 report by the Paulson Institute, a think-tank founded by former U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Jr.

Hebei, China's most industrialized and polluted province and the main source of smog in Beijing, also has strong winds and higher than average sunlight. This could translate into wind and solar power and ease its transition to low-carbon manufacturing. ...
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/jing-jin-ji-china-planning-megalopolis-size-new-england-n734736
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rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #353 on: April 04, 2017, 06:17:08 PM »
The really big news in China is its rapid reductions in energy use per unit of GDP, averaging 5% for the past 3 years. Combined with reductions averaging 3.8% for the previous 2 years, that's about a 25% reduction in energy intensity in 5 years. Overshooting its own 5 year plan targets.

With growth a bit higher than 5% last year, actual energy consumption only went up 1.4% - allowing the addition of renewables (and nuclear) to produce a fall in carbon emissions.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/03/14/china-coal-consumption-declines-despite-increasing-energy-consumption/

With the current renewables support programs reducing at the end of 2019, there will probably be a continued high level of renewable implementations between now and then. The government's GDP growth target is 6.5-7% (a rate that doubles the size of the economy every 10 years), so if the rate of reduction in energy intensity is maintained, then China could continue to slightly reduce its carbon emissions year over year.

If coal consumption continues to fall at a few per cent per annum, there would be a significant reduction in sulphur emissions. This could be exacerbated by extra use of sulphur scrubbers. The short-term effect, given that the sulphur particles are removed from the atmosphere very quickly (unlike the carbon emissions), could be a local warming effect. That could have more than regional consequences if it changes circulation patterns.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 06:30:31 PM by rboyd »

TerryM

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #354 on: April 11, 2017, 01:55:55 PM »
One of my dinner guests last night is from China. She'd just returned from a trip back home after two years in Canada. She flew into Shanghai & was pleasantly surprised when her mother met her at the airport. Seems her parents now live only an hour and a half from Shanghai by rail, although it's still a 500 K distance.
The new Semi-High Speed line, not one of the very fast maglev super trains, but still, station to station in 1.5 hours, allows her parents to go for lunch in Shanghai, then return in plenty of time for dinner.
What surprised her was that her parents hadn't thought to mentioned the new service. An indication of how rapidly things are changing in some parts of the world.


Terry

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #355 on: April 11, 2017, 02:57:35 PM »
If we end up second warmest year to the el nino spiked 2016 record year then a lot of that warmth will be from the brightening that reduced coal use, combined with the roll out of clean air technologies, is now driving. The warming we missed out on through the late nineties and noughties is now about to rush in as the energy at the top of the atmosphere is able to make its way to the ground.

So, whilst celebrating the lead China is taking in both renewables and clean air technologies we have to accept that China had suppressed warming over its 'dirty Years'  will now the lost warming will make itself known as the atmosphere clears over the areas worst impacted.
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rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #356 on: April 11, 2017, 07:32:28 PM »
That's a worry that I have had for a long time, that we have been underestimating the negative albedo effect of those sulphur particles from the massive expansion of Chinese coal use post 2000.

Given the very fast washing out of those particles from the atmosphere, and the long life of CO2, even just a stabilization of coal use would have increased the rate of local warming. With aggressive steps to solve the air pollution crisis a lot of pent-up warming potential may now be released. With the very rapid drive for nuclear, renewables and energy efficiency we could have extra heat being added over China year over year for a decade or more.

We are walking a very fine line between kicking off positive climate feedbacks in the short-term (due to sulphate aerosol reductions and increased CH4 emissions etc.) and the longer-term effects of reduced CO2 emissions.

rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #357 on: April 14, 2017, 10:17:57 PM »
China to lead in CCS (as well as in Wind, Solar and Nuclear)?

Looks like China is making a major push in CCS, following its "try everything" strategy. Becoming a world leader in all low-emissions technology (Wind, Solar, Nuclear, Hydro, CCS) while the Denier in Chief hobbles the U.S. industry.

https://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2017/january/the-potential-for-carbon-capture-and-storage-in-china.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-28/china-set-to-displace-north-america-with-carbon-capture-projects

rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #358 on: April 15, 2017, 12:18:32 AM »
Too early to celebrate China's reduction in coal usage given the historical upward revisions to its coal usage.

I keep having to remind myself that China has a nasty habit of revising its coal usage statistics upwards a few years after they are published, so the current drop may be a bit of a statistical mirage. Last time they revised their statistics, it was big! Even a much smaller scale of revision would blow a hole in the current "Global CO2 emissions have plateaud" story.

"Energy-content-based coal consumption from 2000 to 2013 is up to 14% higher than previously reported, while coal production is up to 7% higher"

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=22952


rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #359 on: Today at 02:18:51 AM »
China pulling ahead of US in clean tech, to produce a trade war in the future?

"Clean Energy Could Spark a Trade War Between the US and China" from Wired "That [$365bn] investment puts China in a prime position to lead the world in clean energy, selling its innovations to other countries looking to cut their energy bills. So if a trade war breaks out between China and the US, it may well be over clean energy."

https://www.wired.com/2017/03/us-china-clean-energy/
« Last Edit: Today at 02:34:10 AM by rboyd »

rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #360 on: Today at 02:21:50 AM »
China nuclear power capacity set to overtake the US within a decade Bloomberg

"The world’s second biggest economy will almost triple its nuclear capacity to nearly 100 gigawatts by 2026, making it the biggest market globally, analysts said in a note dated Jan. 27. The nation added about 8 gigawatts of nuclear power last year, boosting its installed capacity to about 34 million kilowatts, according to BMI."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-31/china-s-nuclear-power-fleet-seen-overtaking-u-s-within-decade

rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #361 on: Today at 02:34:43 AM »
China will complete construction of five nuclear power reactors and start construction of eight more in 2017, according to plans released by the country's National Energy Administration (NEA). Planning for a further eight reactors will also be progressed this year.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-China-sets-out-nuclear-plans-for-2017-0203174.html

rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #362 on: Today at 02:38:07 AM »
China Nuclear Push Stalled by Next-Generation Reactors

"Plans to green-light eight reactors this year in the world’s fastest-growing nuclear market, announced last week, could depend on whether it’s able to complete some of the world’s most-advanced facilities, including Westinghouse Electric Co.’s AP1000 and Areva SA’s EPR. The first such reactors may come online as early as the first half, followed by new approvals, according to Karl Liu, an analyst at BOC International Holdings Ltd. in Hong Kong."

"China is seeking to be the first country to bring online either an AP1000 or EPR, so-called generation III+ reactors, which have suffered costly delays in the U.S. and Europe. The world’s second-biggest economy, and largest energy consumer, is aiming to boost its nuclear power capacity and develop its own next-generation technology for export."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-20/china-nuclear-ambitions-seen-stalled-by-next-generation-reactors

Bob Wallace

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #363 on: Today at 03:42:20 AM »
I've been following China's energy developments for several years.  I will be really surprised if China doesn't start dialing down its nuclear starts before 2020.

The odds of this happening really increase if labor costs continue to rise in the country.  Very cheap labor makes nuclear a lot more affordable in China than in western countries.  I checked labor costs a few days ago.  IIRC an engineer in China makes about 14% as much as an engineer in the US.  Same for laborers.

China has an aging population (one child is starting to impact).  They're already experience something of a labor shortage.  And market forces are starting to take hold in China.  Their labor rates could move up fairly quickly.

mati

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #364 on: Today at 04:05:50 AM »
and so it goes

Bob Wallace

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #365 on: Today at 04:59:24 AM »
afaik china has not changed their nuclear plans

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/china-nuclear-power.aspx


I will be really surprised if China doesn't start dialing down its nuclear starts before 2020.



rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #366 on: Today at 05:16:13 AM »
Thanks for the info mati.

The rapid buildout of the low-carbon energy sources, including nuclear, benefits China in a number of ways. As well as reducing air pollution, carbon emissions and gaining competitive advantage in these new industries, it also helps reduce their dependence on imported fossil fuel energy supplies.
They can continue rapid growth without overwhelming the ability to import energy from others, and reduce dependence upon easily embargoed/interdicted fossil fuel supplies.

Given the increasing tensions with the US, it would make sense for China to keep driving the "all of the above" strategy as fast as they can go. That includes their impressive energy efficiency drive.

sidd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #367 on: Today at 06:03:29 AM »
Oi. Westinghouse/Toshiba are in bankruptcy. China will not greenlight eight nukes this year.

mati

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #368 on: Today at 06:13:54 AM »
Oi. Westinghouse/Toshiba are in bankruptcy. China will not greenlight eight nukes this year.

only in poor merica

china reactor build go ahead
and so it goes

Bob Wallace

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #369 on: Today at 06:17:43 AM »
Oi. Westinghouse/Toshiba are in bankruptcy. China will not greenlight eight nukes this year.

only in poor merica

china reactor build go ahead

Math challenged?

rboyd

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Re: But, but, but, China....
« Reply #370 on: Today at 08:04:36 PM »
"China has become largely self-sufficient in reactor design and construction, as well as other aspects of the fuel cycle, but is making full use of western technology while adapting and improving it"

China doesn't need the western companies, so their bankruptcy is irrelevant, just using their technology and improving it. Seems that we have seen this story before in many areas from East Asian countries (cars, electronics, solar panels, wind turbines ...,).

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/china-nuclear-power.aspx

"China to launch eight new units in 2017"

http://www.neimagazine.com/news/newseight-new-units-to-be-launched-in-2017-5759126