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Iain

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4650 on: February 11, 2020, 10:48:18 PM »
Re. Burying the blades, I expect the volume of coal ash they displaced over their lifetime exceeds that of the blades many times over.
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4651 on: February 11, 2020, 11:13:34 PM »
The gridwatch figures don't include actuals for smaller farm turbines, typ 11-20 kW, only an estimate.
Do these count as generation side or as a reduction in demand?

As I understand it's the same as residential solar feed in, in that it reduces demand beyond the substation rather than feeding into national grid generation so the national grid see it as a reduction in demand.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4652 on: February 11, 2020, 11:41:54 PM »
Solar stocks are leading the energy sector while the fossil fuel stocks are lagging.  The reason is that solar plus storage is now cheaper than a new natural gas plant.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenmcbride1/2020/02/11/warren-buffett-has-started-the-biggest-energy-revolution/#5c7ba0b24494

Quote
Warren Buffett Has Started The Biggest Energy Revolution
Feb 11, 2020
Stephen McBride

Did you hear the news about a “breed” of stocks that made investors the richest in 2019?

It’s not housing stocks, which enjoyed a record rally last year. It’s not even everyone’s beloved tech stocks like Netflix or Facebook.

This may sound like a joke if you’ve followed this sector for long, but the hands-down winner of 2019 was solar stocks. Invesco Solar ETF (TAN) ran up 51% in just a year, becoming last year’s best-performing ETF.

This ETF holds a basket of stocks that build solar parks, make solar panels and other components, all to produce solar energy. But let me tell you, last year’s 51% gain is just pennies compared to what’s coming.

Last September, Warren Buffett struck a historic deal marking the beginning of the biggest disruption in energy since the First Industrial Revolution. (It’s one of the few sectors I’m personally investing in).


Quote
If you are reading this with skepticism, I get it. A decade ago, green energy advocates claimed solar energy would soon power the entire planet. They said the world didn’t need fossil fuels anymore.

Quote
But the solar dream was way ahead of its time.

Back then, producing energy from solar cost at least 4X more than from fossil fuels. In 2009, it cost $360 to produce a megawatt-hour of electricity using solar. Natural gas cost just $70.

Quote
In all, the price of solar energy has cratered by 84% since 2010, according to BloombergNEF. And for the first time in history, solar energy is cheaper than fossil fuel energy, as you can see below:



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While solar is one of the cheapest and cleanest sources of energy, it has one big flaw. It depends on sunshine.

A solar farm can’t produce enough electricity when it’s cloudy or dark. It needs efficient battery storage, which presents another problem.

Quote
MIT researchers estimated battery costs must sink to $20 per megawatt hour if we ever want to switch 100% to solar power. That’s a 90% reduction from last year’s prices.

Scientists expected this to happen sometime towards 2030. But it looks like Warren Buffett beat their forecast by 10 years.

Quote
Last September, Warren Buffett’s NV Energy company signed a deal with Los Angeles’ government to build America’s biggest solar farm. Last month, the project was also green-lit by the Trump administration.

The farm will span 7,100 acres in the desert outside Las Vegas. It will be backed by the world’s largest battery and power 6–7% of LA’s electricity needs.

Stunning scale aside, the most jaw-dropping thing is the price of its electricity. The plant will produce energy at a cost of $20 per megawatt hour of electricity—plus $13 for storage.

In all, the plant’s power will cost $33 per megawatt hour. That's half the estimated cost of power from a new natural gas plant!

And at $13 per megawatt hour, the storage cost is 35% below the MIT scientists’ threshold for the world to go 100% solar. Mark Z. Jacobson, a Stanford professor and one of the most vocal green energy advocates, tweeted on the news: "Goodnight #naturalgas, goodnight #coal, goodnight #nuclear."

kassy

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4653 on: February 12, 2020, 01:34:41 PM »
Lets hope this gathers some (solar powered) steam.  :)
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4654 on: February 12, 2020, 03:57:51 PM »
Have a read about it in the press articles.

The environmentalists don't want it and oppose it.  Oh, yes, they're all for solar.  On buildings, car parks, etc.

You can't use the desert, some tortoises might be impacted.

Never mind the fact that if we don't start covering the deserts in solar, the Tortoises are going to get dried out and burned up.

We talk about the liveable biosphere being destroyed.  Yet the environmentalists don't seem to realise that the first impacts of the liveable biosphere breakdown won't be humans.  It will be animals.

The more we do this, the more they will complain.  Eventually someone will listen. Then we won't get any more solar because the economies of scale don't work on a whole bunch of separate infrastructure.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

wili

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4655 on: February 12, 2020, 06:35:03 PM »
"Yet the environmentalists don't seem to realise that the first impacts of the liveable biosphere breakdown won't be humans.  It will be animals."

Congratulations for winning "The Stupidest Thing I Have Read On ASIF For A Long Time" award!
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

swoozle

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4656 on: February 12, 2020, 10:26:28 PM »
"Yet the environmentalists don't seem to realise that the first impacts of the liveable biosphere breakdown won't be humans.  It will be animals."

Congratulations for winning "The Stupidest Thing I Have Read On ASIF For A Long Time" award!

Yes, I have to agree.

/ignore

Ah, I feel smarter already.

sidd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4657 on: February 13, 2020, 12:00:51 AM »
More about the Segmented Ultralight Morphing Rotor discussed in another thread:

https://www.sandia.gov/news/publications/labnews/articles/2016/22-01/wind_blades.html

a slide deck about controlling such a beast among other interesting things:

https://www.slideshare.net/sandiaecis/dana-martindaniel-zalkind-50-mw-segmented-ultralight-morphing-rotor-sumr-design-concept-and-controls-strategies

sidd

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4658 on: February 13, 2020, 04:33:47 PM »
U.S. energy-related carbon dioxide emissions lowered in 2019: report
February 11, 2020
Quote
Energy-related carbon dioxide emissions in the U.S. fell 2.9 percent last year, according to a report published Tuesday.

The International Energy Agency (IEA) found that the U.S. decline was the largest, at 140 million tonnes, of any country. It also noted that since 2000, U.S. emissions have decreased nearly one gigatonne.

"A 15% reduction in the use of coal for power generation underpinned the decline in overall US emissions in 2019," the report said.

Globally, energy-related carbon dioxide emissions flatlined at about 33 gigatonnes following two years of increases.

The IEA attributed that to fewer emissions from the power sector in advanced economies because of "the expanding role of renewable sources" as well as "fuel switching from coal to natural gas and higher nuclear power output."
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/482601-us-energy-related-carbon-dioxide-emissions-lowered-in-2019-report
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4659 on: February 13, 2020, 07:28:42 PM »
U.S. energy-related carbon dioxide emissions lowered in 2019: report
February 11, 2020
Quote
Energy-related carbon dioxide emissions in the U.S. fell 2.9 percent last year, according to a report published Tuesday.

Globally, energy-related carbon dioxide emissions flatlined at about 33 gigatonnes following two years of increases.

"Big deal" answered the climate.
"And if we were in an El Nino?" asked I.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/13/january-hottest-earth-record-climate-crisis
Earth just had hottest January since records began, data shows
Average global temperature 2.5F above 20th-century average
Antarctic has begun February with several temperature spikes
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4660 on: February 13, 2020, 08:54:59 PM »
The interim global CO2 growth figure for 2019 is 2.94.  It will be updated on March 5th with December figures and it will fall slightly.

That is not the story.  The story is that this level of growth is unprecedented for a non Nino year.

So much for all our Renewable efforts...

Renewables are sexy and can call down votes and make good headlines.  But reality is that we need to be talking CO2 neutral/negative and that one has gone out the window.

We need to stop emitting CO2 first and it doesn't really matter, for now, how we do that.

We need the space to grow our renewables to the point where we can replace the less desirable methods with renewables.

But the marked lack of pragmatism in the climate lobby is letting CO2 run away.

As we used to say int the army, put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Because we are failing.

Badly.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

wili

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4661 on: February 14, 2020, 01:54:14 AM »
Well put, sadly.  :-\
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Jim Hunt

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4662 on: February 15, 2020, 10:11:02 PM »
Lisa the LEAF and I braved the worst that Storm Dennis could throw at us earlier today.

Our first video report, from the ridge above the North Cornish seaside:

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4663 on: February 16, 2020, 02:42:49 AM »
Tesla Steps Into The Utility Space With New Grid Controller Patent
February 14th, 2020
Quote
Tesla Developing A Scalable Whole-House Energy Management System: New Grid Controller Manages Production, Storage, & Consumption
This week, Tesla locked in a new patent for a distributed electrical grid management system, with capability to control everything from massive grid-scale energy storage installations down to your washing machine to keep everything humming along nicely.

The new patent is a natural extension of Tesla’s Grid Controller solution that manages grid-scale assets, but the new solution takes it a step further by folding in Tesla’s in-home solutions, and then some. The result proposed in the new patent is an end-to-end distributed grid management system with the capability to identify and manage assets on the grid, in businesses, and in homes as a means of balancing the grid more effectively. It leverages each asset on the grid as a part of the overall system.
...
Creating a standardized communication protocol to allow utilities to have bi-directional communication with appliances in the homes of customers is a game changer for homeowners and utilities. This new patent lays out the blueprint for how that could work and speaks to Tesla’s direction with its future grid and in-home products. Tesla is already playing in the grid services space, but this takes the capability to a new level, with even more potential revenue opportunities.
...
The washing machine may strike some as a curious inclusion, but it is actually a very insightful one. If Tesla would have simply used electric vehicles as the example of the load devices, the entire system could be implemented with no new hardware. Stretching beyond high-usage items like HVAC systems, pool heaters, EV chargers, and electric dryers to washing machines speaks to the scope of loads Tesla is looking to optimize.

Imagine dropping a load of laundry into the washing machine and simply letting the house decide when it was cheapest/best for the grid/lowest emissions to run it? At its core, the solution simply takes demand response to the next logical level by extending it deep into the home. Rolling all of these load devices into a larger system that not only sees grid assets but the ability to dynamically manage them is immensely powerful. ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/14/tesla-steps-into-the-utility-space-with-new-grid-controller-patent/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

interstitial

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4664 on: February 16, 2020, 03:20:14 AM »
I have been busy reducing my carbon foot print and saving money. We were using propane to heat the house and cooking. I shut that off and switched to a heat pump. I added two inches of foam insulation when I redid the house siding and got new windows. I used to spend $2400 a year on energy now based on one months usage it should be $650 a year.


That is all electric usage and since my utility was 81.03% hydro, 9.99% nuclear, 6.39% wind, 2.58% biomass methane and petroleum, 0.01% natural gas. So 97.41% carbon free and some of that 2.58% is biomass. Further my utility buys renewable energy credits and retires them for all fossil fuel energy they produce.


The house needed new siding anyway so I don't count that but I do count the insultation with all the utility rebates I received I spent about $2000 plus my time to get there. My heat pump only cost me $50 installed.

Iain

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4665 on: February 16, 2020, 08:02:03 AM »
@ BeesKnees

Unmetered (embedded) Wind energy will not appear as generation, only as reduced demand.

Solar is displayed as an estimate.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/

confusingly they say "   There is no central recording of Solar Generation. This figure is an estimated figure which comes from Sheffield University. This value is now included in the Demand figure"

Yet they show solar as Production in their graphs?!

https://gridwatch.co.uk/Solar

I sent a query to GW
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

BeeKnees

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4666 on: February 16, 2020, 12:29:19 PM »
confusingly they say "   There is no central recording of Solar Generation. This figure is an estimated figure which comes from Sheffield University. This value is now included in the Demand figure"

Yet they show solar as Production in their graphs?!
https://gridwatch.co.uk/Solar

This may help
Quote
Sheffield Solar has been analysing the performance of operational solar PV systems in the UK since 2010. They now provide National Grid with solar outturn data for their control room. National Grid need this as solar is embedded in the distribution network so its outturn data is not available to the system operator. Sheffield Solar’s analysis combines generation data from around 20,000 systems with installed capacity data to give GB national solar outturn. They also provide PV_Regional, a regional PV outturn and short term PV forecast services (PV_Forecast). The regional forecast is used for understanding where pinch points may occur on the grid, while PV_Forecast is used by energy industry stakeholders to anticipate future demand, accounting for solar
https://www.mygridgb.co.uk/about/

https://www.solar.sheffield.ac.uk/pvlive/

Iain

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4667 on: February 16, 2020, 01:12:19 PM »
Gridwatch replied:

"The demand figure from Elexon does not include solar so it is added to get a better estimate of total demand."

So the estimate for solar comes from  Sheffield and is presented as a separate graph.

It is also added to demand, because Solar reduces demand as seen from the dispatch point of metered sources.
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4668 on: February 18, 2020, 02:56:35 PM »
UK Blah-blah
- "net-zero carbon by 2050,
- World Leader in reducing CO2 emissions,
etc, etc.....

UK REALITY
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/feb/18/renewables-barely-feature-building-programme-schools-solar-panels
Renewables barely feature in building programme for 500 schools
Quote
only a handful of the 500-plus schools being rebuilt or refurbished across the county through the government’s £4.3bn priority school building programme are installing renewable energy technology – and the Department for Education’s (DfE’s) recommended designs do not include renewables.

The pathetic bunch of clowns who presume to govern the UK for the next 5 years just don't get it. This oven-ready climate emergency can't be solved with a jolly catch-phrase.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

NeilT

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4669 on: February 18, 2020, 05:15:48 PM »
But the pathetic bunch of clowns are not voted in.  They are the civil servants who implement the policies.

Regardless of the government in power, the same clowns are on the sharp end.

What differentiates the different administrations is how effective they are at anticipating and managing the clowns.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

philopek

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4670 on: February 18, 2020, 05:37:27 PM »
But the pathetic bunch of clowns are not voted in.  They are the civil servants who implement the policies.

Regardless of the government in power, the same clowns are on the sharp end.

What differentiates the different administrations is how effective they are at anticipating and managing the clowns.

You're touching a very crucial and too rarely mentioned point here. Since the topic goes deep and would have to be analyzed and discussed at length that's all what i'm going to say here and that there will never enough people at the same end of the rope:

a) understand the mechanisms in the first place

b) pull the rope from the same end to achieve a change without serious consequences, means
.   we shall continue to run from disaster into the next disaster, from the rain into torrential events .   and ultimately into wars and and violent encounters of various kinds.

I'm glad you mentioned this, it's necessary from time to time to mentione who run's the show and the next step would be to unveil the motives behind, a lot of hypocrisy involved albeit not something new at all ;)

rboyd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4671 on: February 18, 2020, 06:51:44 PM »
An apt song, send in the clowns - Don't you love farce? My fault, I fear. I thought that you'd want what I want. Sorry, my dear!

Isn't it rich?
Are we a pair?
Me here at last on the ground,
You in mid-air,
Where are the clowns?

Isn't it bliss?
Don't you approve?
One who keeps tearing around,
One who can't move,
Where are the clowns?
There ought to be clowns?

Just when I'd stopped opening doors,
Finally knowing the one that I wanted was yours
Making my entrance again with my usual flair
Sure of my lines
No one is there

Don't you love farce?
My fault, I fear
I thought that you'd want what I want
Sorry, my dear!
But…


Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4672 on: February 18, 2020, 10:13:11 PM »
Meanwhile, in renewable energy news, Africa is increasingly turning to wind power.

https://qz.com/africa/1803714/south-africa-turning-to-windpower-as-eskom-blackouts-linger/

Quote
More of Africa’s leading economies are already looking to wind to power their homes
February 17, 2020
Yomi Kazeem

Quote
Last year, led by Egypt, Morocco and Ethiopia, countries in Africa and the Middle East installed nearly 900 megawatts of wind power, recent data from the Global Wind Energy Council (GWEC) shows. But that’s just a start as the rate of wind power installation is projected to accelerate over the next five years: GWEC projects 10.7 gigawatts of wind energy capacity will be installed across both regions by 2024.

South Africa, the continent’s most advanced economy, will lead the drive for wind power installations with an additional 3.3 gigawatts added to its energy capacity by 2024. South Africa’s urgent recourse to wind power is likely linked to its ongoing problems with the state power utility as electricity blackouts have become increasingly normal. Like in several other African countries, South Africa’s problems are rooted in being unable to expand electricity infrastructure quickly enough to cope with population growth and demand.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #4673 on: February 18, 2020, 10:21:26 PM »
In Texas, there's so much natural gas being produced that the price for it is often negative, producers have to pay someone to take it away (it contaminates the oil they'd like to sell).  However, even at negative prices, natural gas can't compete with solar.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Texas-to-build-more-solar-wind-batteries-than-15062905.php

Quote
Solar, wind and batteries expected to outpace new gas-powered generation in Texas
Feb 18, 2020

Texas is increasingly moving away from power generated by natural gas, the backbone of the state's electricity system and which supplies about half of the state's generating capacity.

Solar power is emerging as the state's fastest growing electricity source, according to the state grid manager, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas. Solar developers are expected to install about 68 gigawatts of solar power capacity, representing 61 percent of the power projects expected to come on the grid between now and 2023. One gigawatt provides enough power for about 700,000 homes.