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Author Topic: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)  (Read 42254 times)

Bob Wallace

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #250 on: June 28, 2019, 07:21:07 PM »
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You disagree that the amount of electricity generated by renewables is not increasing?
Quote
the Keeling curve and paleoclimate
You disagree that the amount of CO2 is still increasing (record year 2018) and perhaps, in the near future, get help from living nature? You disagree that paleoclimate records say that if there's this amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, science says: These (pliocene) things have happened and therefore will happen again?

Are you accusing me of something which I have not stated?  Please don't just make stuff up. 

Bob Wallace

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #251 on: June 28, 2019, 07:39:48 PM »
What makes the difference between painful damage and civilization collapse?  By civilization collapse I assume you mean something of a Mad Max world or a return the the Dark Ages.  What is the tipping point you envision?
Essentials. The endpoint of the trends.
The tipping point: Hunger and thirst. Violence and unsafety, fear.

That's too abstract to have any meaning.

People have been dying in very large numbers due to hunger and thirst for a long time.  Long before the climate began to change.  We may see death rates increase.  Some portion of the world's population has been living with violence , unsafety, and fear for all of recorded history and likely well before. 

The Great Famine of 1315-1317 killed an estimate 7.5 million people in Europe.
The Chalisa Famine which occured in India in 1783/84 killed 11 million.  Another famine in India a few years later killed another 11 million.
The 'Great Four' famines in China in the 1800s killed 45 million.
The famine that hit China at the end of the 1960s killed as many as 43 million.

Throughout history there have been wars that have killed millions upon millions.  As many as 65 million died in World War One.  As many as 85 million died in  World War Two.

Those things did not cause worldwide civilization collapse.  Give me something that might cause civilization collapse thirty years from now.

I will grant you that there may be some climatic consequence we have yet to identify that could really mess things up.  But since we don't know about it you can't use it as an explanation to back your claim.

Let me ask again, what would cause the collapse of civilization about 30 years from now? 

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #252 on: June 28, 2019, 09:35:35 PM »
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It is almost as if most people from the U.S.A. think the world stops at their borders and their TV contexts.
Are you implying it doesn't?   ;D :o ::) :P

Massive migrations from hot/wet places (Bangladesh, India, Central America, Middle East), plus a few nuclear bombs tossed here and there (in somebody's desperation), with coastal disruptions and a food scare or two plus some tropical diseases spreading 'north' making Western societies more on edge, all together may cause vigilantism to increase to the point civil society in the traditional sense ceases to exist in many places (like it does in some ghettos and in some war-torn countries today).  I think this could happen by 2050.

The "Wild West" wasn't wild everywhere.  (I very much remember Reies Tijerina (and La Alianza) doing his (their) thing in the 1960s, so that's not so very long ago!  The Wikipedia article doesn't mention their turning a New Mexican highway into a toll road, by stopping cars with a road block, deciding how rich a driver was, and extracting a toll [something like $1 if they looked middle class; $10 if they looked rich].  When the police came to arrest them, they simply got on their horses and rode off into the distance, only to start a new road block someplace else later. More of that time.)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

oren

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #253 on: June 28, 2019, 11:04:38 PM »
Yeah, something like that. Food stresses, water problems, resource depletion, places becoming less livable, heat, drought, storms, flooding and SLR, but with the help of conflicts, trade wars, actual wars, populist leaders, inflation etc.

zizek

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #254 on: June 28, 2019, 11:16:13 PM »

Big companies are not existential threats to the plant's living flora and fauna.


denialism.

kassy

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #255 on: June 29, 2019, 10:39:27 PM »
India looks interesting and it is a lot of people. At some point you can not truck in enough water if the monsoons are failing.

Earlier famines are not really a reference point for 2019. Any famine now can be seen better then in the 18th century. If people know you won´t help them they will help themselves in some way.

Hunger and thirst are powerful motivators never mind having kids you know they willl just let starve. At some point you have nothing to lose and ´or die trying´ becomes an option.

Then it mixes with local ideology and it goes boom.

PS: As a radical OT thought my favourite CCS scheme is growing Azolla and weighing it down with lots of career politicians. The whole lot should be dumped into the ocean.


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Bob Wallace

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #256 on: June 29, 2019, 11:08:29 PM »
Remember to distinguish between a localized collapse and global civilization collapse.

We've already seen local civilization collapses due, at least in part, to climate change.  Syria and Sudan’s Darfur region are two conflicts that seem to be partially driven by climate change.  But think out what it would take to cause the entire world to fall into conditions that would drive us back to the stone age.  Or whatever version of civilization collapse you envision.

Think about how rapidly or not rapidly that might happen and what ways we might have to maintain the general civilization we now have, albeit perhaps on a smaller scale.

nanning

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #257 on: June 30, 2019, 05:45:59 AM »
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But think out what it would take to cause the entire world to fall into conditions that would drive us back to the stone age
We can't go 'back' to the stone age I think because we miss the expertise, the know-how. Almost all skills have been forgotten, especially in richer countries.

Our global interconnectedness and extreme dependence on technology makes us very vulnerable. Local collapse will have ripple on effects. I don't think 'we' can scale back. Once it goes, it goes. We don't have the resilience and redundancy like e.g. ecosystems. We've built a house of cards.
Seeing what's left of ideals and enlightenment, empathy and morals, I'd say civilisation is already collapsing.

sorry for the off-topic.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Bob Wallace

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #258 on: June 30, 2019, 08:33:01 AM »
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But think out what it would take to cause the entire world to fall into conditions that would drive us back to the stone age
We can't go 'back' to the stone age I think because we miss the expertise, the know-how. Almost all skills have been forgotten, especially in richer countries.

Our global interconnectedness and extreme dependence on technology makes us very vulnerable. Local collapse will have ripple on effects. I don't think 'we' can scale back. Once it goes, it goes. We don't have the resilience and redundancy like e.g. ecosystems. We've built a house of cards.
Seeing what's left of ideals and enlightenment, empathy and morals, I'd say civilisation is already collapsing.

sorry for the off-topic.

I simply don't buy into domer porn.  The total collapse of civilization due to extreme climate change is as unlikely as the other big fantasy that entertained so many a few years back, the total collapse due to peak oil.

Peak oil is no longer a danger because within a few years we could transform our transportation systems, make some unliked but tolerable changes in lifestyle, and continue on.  There was no oil cliff over which the world would have tumbled but, at worse, a decrease of affordable oil supply played out over several years.

If we screw up and allow extreme climate change we won't wake up one morning and find seas eighty feet higher and summer temperatures unbearable over the entire planet.  Those changes would happen over time and as thing became worse at least a portion of us would devise a way to survive. 

We've got the technology to protect ourselves from extreme heat and grow the food we need in controlled conditions.  We probably couldn't support billions, but we could support hundreds of thousands or millions.  And we can take our knowledge and technology with us as we retreat underground or into heavily insulated buildings during the worst of the heat.

vox_mundi

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #259 on: July 05, 2019, 06:54:17 PM »
Call for Green Burial Corridors Alongside Roads, Railways and Country Footpaths
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-green-burial-corridors-roads-railways.html

A leading public health expert is calling for a strategic initiative to develop green burial corridors alongside major transport routes because British graveyards and cemeteries are rapidly running out of room. With 500,000 deaths annually in England and Wales, it is likely that there will be no burial space left within five years.

Writing in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine, Professor John Ashton points to the recent announcement of a scheme to plant 130,000 trees in urban areas as a contribution to reducing pollution and global warming. While lacking in ambition, he writes, it gives a clue as to what might be possible by joining up the dots of green environmentalism and human burial.

Open Access: John Ashton, Necropolis in crisis: housing the living is one thing, there is also a problem in housing the dead, Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine (2019)
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Tom_Mazanec

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sidd

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #261 on: July 07, 2019, 06:20:24 AM »
Re: where

i attach fig 2 b and c

sidd

Tom_Mazanec

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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #263 on: July 16, 2019, 03:21:06 PM »
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nanning

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #264 on: August 01, 2019, 11:17:33 AM »
"Sucking carbon out of the air is no magic fix for the climate emergency"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/01/negative-emissions-tech-climate-emergency-carbon-dioxide-emissions
By Simon Lewis, professor of global change science at University College London.

Quote:
With a range of options, we might think that negative emissions means that climate change can be tackled, and tackled fast. But evidence that these technologies can work at a small demonstration scale is causing the opposite. Negative emissions are treated as a “get out of jail free” card – a licence to keep emitting and clean up the mess later with new technologies. Politicians and their advisers love them, because they can announce a target such as 1.5C while planning to exceed it, with temperatures hopefully clawed back later in the century through negative emissions.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

DrTskoul

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #265 on: August 01, 2019, 11:38:11 AM »
"Sucking carbon out of the air is no magic fix for the climate emergency"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/01/negative-emissions-tech-climate-emergency-carbon-dioxide-emissions
By Simon Lewis, professor of global change science at University College London.

Quote:
With a range of options, we might think that negative emissions means that climate change can be tackled, and tackled fast. But evidence that these technologies can work at a small demonstration scale is causing the opposite. Negative emissions are treated as a “get out of jail free” card – a licence to keep emitting and clean up the mess later with new technologies. Politicians and their advisers love them, because they can announce a target such as 1.5C while planning to exceed it, with temperatures hopefully clawed back later in the century through negative emissions.

The technology works ( actually it is easy to scrub CO2 from the air). The problem is the footprint of the facilities ( huge surface area needed ), the energy to absorb pure CO2 ( is it not negative ) and the capital needed. All around estimates are really lowballing it. The famous examples of outfits that have been seen lately in the news dont have the skills or the desire to scale them up.

DrTskoul

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #266 on: August 01, 2019, 11:39:50 AM »
Call for Green Burial Corridors Alongside Roads, Railways and Country Footpaths
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-green-burial-corridors-roads-railways.html

A leading public health expert is calling for a strategic initiative to develop green burial corridors alongside major transport routes because British graveyards and cemeteries are rapidly running out of room. With 500,000 deaths annually in England and Wales, it is likely that there will be no burial space left within five years.

Writing in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine, Professor John Ashton points to the recent announcement of a scheme to plant 130,000 trees in urban areas as a contribution to reducing pollution and global warming. While lacking in ambition, he writes, it gives a clue as to what might be possible by joining up the dots of green environmentalism and human burial.

Open Access: John Ashton, Necropolis in crisis: housing the living is one thing, there is also a problem in housing the dead, Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine (2019)

Composting is even better

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #267 on: August 23, 2019, 02:00:57 AM »
An overlooked solution to climate crisis
https://www.dailypioneer.com/2019/columnists/an-overlooked-solution-to-climate-crisis.html
Quote
Grasslands are, perhaps, the most neglected ecosystem in the world. However, their ability to meet the climate change challenge must galvanise nations into putting them high on the conservation agenda. The Government must take note

Grasslands across the globe,  especially in India, have played a silent but stellar role in reining in the process of climate change. But according to a study by Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) journal, climate change, pollution and various environment alterations across the globe are changing their identity. One of the key contributions made by grasslands is their inconspicuous role in containing carbon levels in the atmosphere. It is this storage capacity for carbon that makes grasslands effective warriors against climate change.

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Ken Feldman

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #268 on: August 29, 2019, 08:28:20 PM »
Here's a link to a good article about biochar and the role it can play in sequestering carbon dioxide.  The format is an interview with the CEO of a start-up company that is making bio-char from bio-mass burning.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/28/biochars-role-in-mitigating-climate-change/

Quote
Biochar is a stable form of carbon, made from woody materials in a heat and oxygen-deprived system. Conventionally, biochar has been made as a small residue of biomass power production. Each tonne of biochar contains about three tonnes of carbon dioxide. When the wood is taken and turned into a stable carbon, it can’t escape as a liquid or gas, which would happen if it were burned or decomposed.
Biochar is carbon that you can hold in your hand – like charcoal. In the natural carbon cycle, about 1% of carbon is sequestered. By making biochar of the biomass, you can sequester up to two-thirds of the carbon in the biomass. Nature already knows how to sequester carbon into the soils, but we need to learn.

Quote
I’ve read that there are over 50 known use cases for biochar, and new research comes out every month indicating a new use possibility. Could you maybe give us a few examples of the best use cases?
Our first use case is urban landscaping. Plants are under severe stress in urban areas and campuses with not much space to live and runoff water can have a lot of toxins.
Stockholm did a very successful trial where biochar was planted in the root system of the trees as a stormwater filter, aerating the roots and providing some room to move about, while filtering the toxins out.
To me, the most powerful application for biochar is raising the pH of acidic soils, helping the soil ‘microbiome’ by co-composting to put into the ground. This way, biochar can have a long-lasting effect on the living part of the soil, and stabilize the nutrients.
Other use cases include stopping nutrient or other matter leaching into waterways (biofilters), water cleansing, speeding up compost, and environmental remediation from toxins.

Freegrass

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #269 on: June 08, 2020, 07:17:26 PM »
Is Olivine a solution against Climate Change and Ocean Acidification?

https://projectvesta.org/
Now let's pray...

If the science don't fit our beliefs, we pray to God and cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything makes sense again...

blumenkraft

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #270 on: June 08, 2020, 08:39:40 PM »
Nope.

morganism

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #271 on: June 15, 2020, 11:30:50 PM »
Great paper on easy nano grain CO2 catalyst, made by simple flame pyrosis. Easy and scalable, this can create a flexible syngas product, and you can "dial" in the CO and H quantities to make fuels or plastics.

This could get rid of oil and gas production in a year or so..... especially if we started switching over to methanol and electric right now, and not subsidizing fossil fuel cars and companies anymore.

"It means it can be used industrially, it can be scaled, it’s super quick to make the materials and very effective,” she says.

“We don’t need to worry about complicated synthesis techniques that use really expensive metals and precursors – we can burn it and in 10 minutes have these particles ready to go. And by controlling how we burn it, we can control those ratios of desired syngas building blocks.”

"“The idea is that we can take a point source of CO2, such as a coal fired power plant, a gas power plant, or even a natural gas mine where you liberate a huge amount of pure CO2 and we can essentially retrofit this technology at the back end of these plants. Then you could capture that produced CO2 and convert it into something that is hugely valuable to industry,” says Dr Lovell."

The researchers say in effect, they are closing the carbon loop in industrial processes that create harmful greenhouse gases. And by making small adjustments to the way the nanoparticles are burned by the FSP technique, they can determine the eventual mix of the syngas building blocks produced by the carbon dioxide conversion.

“At the moment you generate syngas by using natural gas – so from fossil fuels,” Dr Daiyan says. “But we’re using waste carbon dioxide and then converting it to syngas in a ratio depending on which industry you want to use it in.”

For example, a one to one ratio between the carbon monoxide and hydrogen lends itself to syngas that can be used as fuel. But a ratio of four parts carbon monoxide and one part hydrogen is suitable for the creation of plastics, Dr Daiyan says.

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-tech/engineers-find-neat-way-turn-waste-carbon-dioxide-useful-material

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/aenm.202001381

morganism

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #272 on: August 09, 2020, 01:37:42 AM »
a new electrocatalyst that converts carbon dioxide (CO2) and water into ethanol with very high energy efficiency, high selectivity for the desired final product and low cost. Ethanol is a particularly desirable commodity because it is an ingredient in nearly all U.S. gasoline and is widely used as an intermediate product in the chemical, pharmaceutical and cosmetics industries.

https://www.anl.gov/article/turning-carbon-dioxide-into-liquid-fuel

"The team’s catalyst consists of atomically dispersed copper on a carbon-powder support. By an electrochemical reaction, this catalyst breaks down CO2 and water molecules and selectively reassembles the broken molecules into ethanol under an external electric field. The electrocatalytic selectivity, or ​“Faradaic efficiency,” of the process is over 90 percent, much higher than any other reported process. What is more, the catalyst operates stably over extended operation at low voltage."

revealed a reversible transformation from atomically dispersed copper to clusters of three copper atoms each on application of a low voltage. The CO2-to-ethanol catalysis occurs on these tiny copper clusters. This finding is shedding light on ways to further improve the catalyst through rational design.

“We have prepared several new catalysts using this approach and found that they are all highly efficient in converting CO2 to other hydrocarbons,”

Juan C. García

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #273 on: October 18, 2020, 05:11:09 PM »
A good video of "Just have a think":

Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

morganism

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #274 on: October 27, 2020, 06:11:08 AM »
A new material for separating CO2 from industrial waste gases, natural gas, or biogas

It is capable of completely removing CO2 from gas mixtures without chemically binding CO2.

" The new material is an inorganic-organic hybrid. The chemical basis is clay minerals consisting of hundreds of individual glass platelets. These are only one nanometre thick each, and arranged precisely one above the other.

Between the individual glass plates there are organic molecules that act as spacers. Their shape and chemical properties have been selected so that the pore spaces created are optimally tailored to accumulate CO2. Only carbon dioxide molecules can penetrate into the pore system of the material and be retained there.

In contrast, methane, nitrogen, and other exhaust gas components must remain outside due to the size of their molecules. The researchers have used the so-called molecular sieve effect to increase the material's selectivity for CO2."

https://www.biofueldaily.com/reports/A_new_material_for_separating_CO2_from_industrial_waste_gases_natural_gas_or_biogas_999.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666386420302253?via%3Dihub

Iain

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #275 on: November 02, 2020, 02:26:20 PM »
It's code-named "Lucy"

The amount of CO2 removed will be tiny, but it shows what a motivation monetary reward is.

"UK sky mining facility sucks carbon out of the air to make eco-friendly diamonds"

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-29/uk-sky-mining-facility-sucks-carbon-out-of-the-air-to-make-eco-friendly-diamonds
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton

kassy

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #276 on: November 02, 2020, 03:13:46 PM »
If you want you can bling out with atmospheric carbon stuff. So you get diamonds and then you can get sunglasses from Covalent which makes them from AirCarbon. Think they can get you a bag too.

Of course these are now small drops but maybe we will end up sucking a whole lot of carbon out of the air that way.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #277 on: November 02, 2020, 04:27:13 PM »
If you want you can bling out with atmospheric carbon stuff. So you get diamonds and then you can get sunglasses from Covalent which makes them from AirCarbon. Think they can get you a bag too.

Of course these are now small drops but maybe we will end up sucking a whole lot of carbon out of the air that way.

I think it's a ridiculous approach.  Yes, you can take C02 and reduce the oxidized carbon to elemental carbon.  But that's an incredibly energy-intensive process.  It takes more energy than was released when the carbon was burned.

Plants will do something similar using solar energy.  Since they (frequently) grow and reproduce without human energy expenditure, that approach is a no-brainer.  But it's slow, and most of that carbon ends up back in the atmosphere before too long.

Humans can sequester the CO2 with minmial energy expenditure, by combining the acidic CO2 with almost any alkali.  Vast quantities of alkali are needed, so using olivine rock is a rational option.  Basalt too.  There are threads on this forum about all that, so I won't recap them.

Sequestering CO2 from smokestacks is plausible, but not currently economically feasible.  That can be changed with appropriate fees for releasing carbon, and/or credits for sequestration.  Fixing the greenhouse gas problem is really about fixing policy, not individual actions.

kassy

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #278 on: November 03, 2020, 01:02:03 AM »
I think it's a ridiculous approach.

I think so too. Diamonds from air...that´s weird.

But there might be chances there.

If we overbuild solar + wind we should get lots of energy we do not have a use for so if you time it right you can put more energy into processes although that might be more useful for recycling then making diamonds from the air. Then again if you have the excess energy anyway you can use it.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

crandles

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #279 on: November 03, 2020, 02:54:27 AM »
I think it's a ridiculous approach.

I think so too. Diamonds from air...that´s weird.

At least it produces something potentially valuable to mitigate the cost and isn't likely to end up back in the atmosphere. If it substantially reduces the cost of sequestering carbon, what is not to like? Well ok, perhaps the necessary scale of opportunity isn't there but maybe every little helps.