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Author Topic: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)  (Read 27508 times)

Bob Wallace

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #250 on: June 28, 2019, 07:21:07 PM »
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You disagree that the amount of electricity generated by renewables is not increasing?
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the Keeling curve and paleoclimate
You disagree that the amount of CO2 is still increasing (record year 2018) and perhaps, in the near future, get help from living nature? You disagree that paleoclimate records say that if there's this amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, science says: These (pliocene) things have happened and therefore will happen again?

Are you accusing me of something which I have not stated?  Please don't just make stuff up. 

Bob Wallace

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #251 on: June 28, 2019, 07:39:48 PM »
What makes the difference between painful damage and civilization collapse?  By civilization collapse I assume you mean something of a Mad Max world or a return the the Dark Ages.  What is the tipping point you envision?
Essentials. The endpoint of the trends.
The tipping point: Hunger and thirst. Violence and unsafety, fear.

That's too abstract to have any meaning.

People have been dying in very large numbers due to hunger and thirst for a long time.  Long before the climate began to change.  We may see death rates increase.  Some portion of the world's population has been living with violence , unsafety, and fear for all of recorded history and likely well before. 

The Great Famine of 1315-1317 killed an estimate 7.5 million people in Europe.
The Chalisa Famine which occured in India in 1783/84 killed 11 million.  Another famine in India a few years later killed another 11 million.
The 'Great Four' famines in China in the 1800s killed 45 million.
The famine that hit China at the end of the 1960s killed as many as 43 million.

Throughout history there have been wars that have killed millions upon millions.  As many as 65 million died in World War One.  As many as 85 million died in  World War Two.

Those things did not cause worldwide civilization collapse.  Give me something that might cause civilization collapse thirty years from now.

I will grant you that there may be some climatic consequence we have yet to identify that could really mess things up.  But since we don't know about it you can't use it as an explanation to back your claim.

Let me ask again, what would cause the collapse of civilization about 30 years from now? 

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #252 on: June 28, 2019, 09:35:35 PM »
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It is almost as if most people from the U.S.A. think the world stops at their borders and their TV contexts.
Are you implying it doesn't?   ;D :o ::) :P

Massive migrations from hot/wet places (Bangladesh, India, Central America, Middle East), plus a few nuclear bombs tossed here and there (in somebody's desperation), with coastal disruptions and a food scare or two plus some tropical diseases spreading 'north' making Western societies more on edge, all together may cause vigilantism to increase to the point civil society in the traditional sense ceases to exist in many places (like it does in some ghettos and in some war-torn countries today).  I think this could happen by 2050.

The "Wild West" wasn't wild everywhere.  (I very much remember Reies Tijerina (and La Alianza) doing his (their) thing in the 1960s, so that's not so very long ago!  The Wikipedia article doesn't mention their turning a New Mexican highway into a toll road, by stopping cars with a road block, deciding how rich a driver was, and extracting a toll [something like $1 if they looked middle class; $10 if they looked rich].  When the police came to arrest them, they simply got on their horses and rode off into the distance, only to start a new road block someplace else later. More of that time.)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

oren

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #253 on: June 28, 2019, 11:04:38 PM »
Yeah, something like that. Food stresses, water problems, resource depletion, places becoming less livable, heat, drought, storms, flooding and SLR, but with the help of conflicts, trade wars, actual wars, populist leaders, inflation etc.

zizek

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #254 on: June 28, 2019, 11:16:13 PM »

Big companies are not existential threats to the plant's living flora and fauna.


denialism.

kassy

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #255 on: June 29, 2019, 10:39:27 PM »
India looks interesting and it is a lot of people. At some point you can not truck in enough water if the monsoons are failing.

Earlier famines are not really a reference point for 2019. Any famine now can be seen better then in the 18th century. If people know you won´t help them they will help themselves in some way.

Hunger and thirst are powerful motivators never mind having kids you know they willl just let starve. At some point you have nothing to lose and ´or die trying´ becomes an option.

Then it mixes with local ideology and it goes boom.

PS: As a radical OT thought my favourite CCS scheme is growing Azolla and weighing it down with lots of career politicians. The whole lot should be dumped into the ocean.



Bob Wallace

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #256 on: June 29, 2019, 11:08:29 PM »
Remember to distinguish between a localized collapse and global civilization collapse.

We've already seen local civilization collapses due, at least in part, to climate change.  Syria and Sudan’s Darfur region are two conflicts that seem to be partially driven by climate change.  But think out what it would take to cause the entire world to fall into conditions that would drive us back to the stone age.  Or whatever version of civilization collapse you envision.

Think about how rapidly or not rapidly that might happen and what ways we might have to maintain the general civilization we now have, albeit perhaps on a smaller scale.

nanning

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #257 on: June 30, 2019, 05:45:59 AM »
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But think out what it would take to cause the entire world to fall into conditions that would drive us back to the stone age
We can't go 'back' to the stone age I think because we miss the expertise, the know-how. Almost all skills have been forgotten, especially in richer countries.

Our global interconnectedness and extreme dependence on technology makes us very vulnerable. Local collapse will have ripple on effects. I don't think 'we' can scale back. Once it goes, it goes. We don't have the resilience and redundancy like e.g. ecosystems. We've built a house of cards.
Seeing what's left of ideals and enlightenment, empathy and morals, I'd say civilisation is already collapsing.

sorry for the off-topic.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russel
"Only men of extraordinary independence of character seem able to resist the pressure of prevailing opinion" - Albert Einstein

Bob Wallace

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #258 on: June 30, 2019, 08:33:01 AM »
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But think out what it would take to cause the entire world to fall into conditions that would drive us back to the stone age
We can't go 'back' to the stone age I think because we miss the expertise, the know-how. Almost all skills have been forgotten, especially in richer countries.

Our global interconnectedness and extreme dependence on technology makes us very vulnerable. Local collapse will have ripple on effects. I don't think 'we' can scale back. Once it goes, it goes. We don't have the resilience and redundancy like e.g. ecosystems. We've built a house of cards.
Seeing what's left of ideals and enlightenment, empathy and morals, I'd say civilisation is already collapsing.

sorry for the off-topic.

I simply don't buy into domer porn.  The total collapse of civilization due to extreme climate change is as unlikely as the other big fantasy that entertained so many a few years back, the total collapse due to peak oil.

Peak oil is no longer a danger because within a few years we could transform our transportation systems, make some unliked but tolerable changes in lifestyle, and continue on.  There was no oil cliff over which the world would have tumbled but, at worse, a decrease of affordable oil supply played out over several years.

If we screw up and allow extreme climate change we won't wake up one morning and find seas eighty feet higher and summer temperatures unbearable over the entire planet.  Those changes would happen over time and as thing became worse at least a portion of us would devise a way to survive. 

We've got the technology to protect ourselves from extreme heat and grow the food we need in controlled conditions.  We probably couldn't support billions, but we could support hundreds of thousands or millions.  And we can take our knowledge and technology with us as we retreat underground or into heavily insulated buildings during the worst of the heat.

vox_mundi

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #259 on: July 05, 2019, 06:54:17 PM »
Call for Green Burial Corridors Alongside Roads, Railways and Country Footpaths
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-green-burial-corridors-roads-railways.html

A leading public health expert is calling for a strategic initiative to develop green burial corridors alongside major transport routes because British graveyards and cemeteries are rapidly running out of room. With 500,000 deaths annually in England and Wales, it is likely that there will be no burial space left within five years.

Writing in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine, Professor John Ashton points to the recent announcement of a scheme to plant 130,000 trees in urban areas as a contribution to reducing pollution and global warming. While lacking in ambition, he writes, it gives a clue as to what might be possible by joining up the dots of green environmentalism and human burial.

Open Access: John Ashton, Necropolis in crisis: housing the living is one thing, there is also a problem in housing the dead, Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine (2019)
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Tom_Mazanec

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sidd

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #261 on: July 07, 2019, 06:20:24 AM »
Re: where

i attach fig 2 b and c

sidd

Tom_Mazanec

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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS)
« Reply #263 on: July 16, 2019, 03:21:06 PM »
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