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vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #550 on: March 05, 2021, 04:28:04 PM »
Greenland Ice Loss May Have Begun as Early as the Mid-'80s
https://phys.org/news/2021-03-greenland-ice-loss-begun-early.html

The amount of snow falling on Greenland's glaciers may have been less than the water lost through icebergs calving and melting since at least the mid-1980s, a study of almost 40 years of satellite images has revealed.

The study was undertaken by Dominik Fahrner, a Ph.D. student with the University of Liverpool's School of Environmental Sciences, and involved reviewing over 20,000 satellite images of over 200 glaciers, then selecting around 3,800 images for analysis. This analysis showed some glaciers had been losing ice for over a decade longer than previously though.

This is one of the first largescale assessments of such a wide range of glaciers. Previously it was far too time consuming and labor intensive because of the time taken to download, process and analyze them. The study was made possible by cloud computing that cut the time to obtain these images from 20 minutes per image to around 5 seconds.

By taking advantage of cloud computing technology, it is the first time it has been possible to analyze these over such long timescales over the entire ice sheet.

The research also revealed that, taken collectively, iceberg-calving glaciers react in a relatively simple, linear manner in response to climatic factors (e.g. ocean temperature and air temperature). Whereas, when looked at individually, their reactions are complex and non-linear.





Dominik Fahrner et al. Linear response of the Greenland ice sheet's tidewater glacier terminus positions to climate, Journal of Glaciology (2021)
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-glaciology/article/linear-response-of-the-greenland-ice-sheets-tidewater-glacier-terminus-positions-to-climate/6B3723E3A0E94012A1DB9D3E49246AF2
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vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #551 on: March 15, 2021, 10:52:55 PM »
Scientists Stunned to Discover Plants Beneath Mile-Deep Greenland Ice
https://www.uvm.edu/uvmnews/news/uvm-scientists-stunned-discover-plants-beneath-mile-deep-greenland-ice



In 1966, US Army scientists drilled down through nearly a mile of ice in northwestern Greenland—and pulled up a fifteen-foot-long tube of dirt from the bottom. Then this frozen sediment was lost in a freezer for decades. It was accidentally rediscovered in 2017.

In 2019, University of Vermont scientist Andrew Christ looked at it through his microscope—and couldn't believe what he was seeing: twigs and leaves instead of just sand and rock. That suggested that the ice was gone in the recent geologic past—and that a vegetated landscape, perhaps a boreal forest, stood where a mile-deep ice sheet as big as Alaska stands today.

Over the last year, Christ and an international team of scientists—led by Paul Bierman at UVM, Joerg Schaefer at Columbia University and Dorthe Dahl-Jensen at the University of Copenhagen—have studied these one-of-a-kind fossil plants and sediment from the bottom of Greenland. Their results show that most, or all, of Greenland must have been ice-free within the last million years, perhaps even the last few hundred-thousand years.

The discovery helps confirm a new and troubling understanding that the Greenland ice has melted off entirely during recent warm periods in Earth's history—periods like the one we are now creating with human-caused climate change.

The new study provides the strongest evidence yet that Greenland is more fragile and sensitive to climate change than previously understood—and at grave risk of irreversibly melting off.

"This is not a twenty-generation problem," says Paul Bierman, a geoscientist at UVM in the College of Arts & Sciences, Rubenstein School of Environment & Natural Resources, and fellow in the Gund Institute for Environment. "This is an urgent problem for the next 50 years."



https://www.uvm.edu/uvmnews/news/secrets-under-ice

The material for the new PNAS study came from Camp Century, a Cold War military base dug inside the ice sheet far above the Arctic Circle in the 1960s. The real purpose of the camp was a super-secret effort, called Project Iceworm, to hide 600 nuclear missiles under the ice close to the Soviet Union. As cover, the Army presented the camp as a polar science station.

The military mission failed, but the science team did complete important research, including drilling a 4560-foot-deep ice core.

They were focused on the ice and, apparently, took less interest in a bit of dirt gathered from beneath the ice core. Then, in a truly cinematic set of strange plot twists, the ice core was moved from an Army freezer to the University of Buffalo in the 1970s, to another freezer in Copenhagen, Denmark, in the 1990s, where it languished for decades—until it surfaced when the cores were being moved to a new freezer.

... The new study makes clear that the deep ice at Camp Century—some 75 miles inland from the coast and only 800 miles from the North Pole—entirely melted at least once within the last million years and was covered with vegetation, including moss and perhaps trees. The new research, supported by the National Science Foundation, lines up with data from two other ice cores from the center of Greenland, collected in 1990s. Sediment from the bottom of these cores also indicate that the ice sheet was gone for some time in the recent geologic past.

And the new study shows that ecosystems of the past were not scoured into oblivion by ages of glaciers and ice sheets bulldozing overtop. Instead, the story of these living landscapes remains captured under the relatively young ice that formed on top of the ground, frozen in place, and holds them still.



Andrew J. Christ el al., "A multimillion-year-old record of Greenland vegetation and glacial history preserved in sediment beneath 1.4 km of ice at Camp Century," PNAS (2021).
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/13/e2021442118

... Cosmogenic 26Al/10Be and luminescence data bracket the burial of the lower-most sediment between <3.2 ± 0.4 Ma and >0.7 to 1.4 Ma. In the upper-most sediment, cosmogenic 26Al/10Be data require exposure within the last 1.0 ± 0.1 My.

The unique subglacial sedimentary record from Camp Century documents at least two episodes of ice-free, vegetated conditions, each followed by glaciation. The lower sediment derives from an Early Pleistocene GrIS advance. 26Al/10Be ratios in the upper-most sediment match those in subglacial bedrock from central Greenland, suggesting similar ice-cover histories across the GrIS. We conclude that the GrIS persisted through much of the Pleistocene but melted and reformed at least once since 1.1 Ma.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 11:12:27 PM by vox_mundi »
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P-maker

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #552 on: March 16, 2021, 03:00:28 PM »
Vox_mundi

Thanks for flagging this piece of old news from Greenland. It may very well be that the sediments from below the ice core may have been exposed to light some hundreds of thousand years ago. However, I also noticed from a quick read through some of the Supplementary material that a tiny tree fragment from one of the samples was AMS Radiocarbon dated to 38,300 BP. The scientists decided to look away from this finding, although I find that such a young age of the biogenic material ought to be much more concerning than the much older exposure date of the minerogenic material.

sidd

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #553 on: March 17, 2021, 02:01:22 AM »
Camp Century is only 75 miles inland, would not surprise me if the thing has melted a couple times since Eemian

I think Dye-3 saw organics at the bottom too, some years ago.

sidd

gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #554 on: March 17, 2021, 01:57:39 PM »
So at enormous difficulty and at great expense they drill these holes all the way through the ice sheets and completely ignore or forget to bring up a sample of dirt and bedrock from the bottom of the hole.

Scientists with blinkers on, unable to think beyond their narrow specialisation.

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gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #555 on: March 21, 2021, 08:45:50 PM »
I was looking for AMSR2 data and stumbled on something else entirely.

The International Ice Patrol log the number of icebergs spotted at at South of 48 Degrees North.
ftp://sidads.colorado.edu/DATASETS/NOAA/G10028/

& here are a couple of graphs.

Just think of how many hours could be spent trying to figure out reasons for the very large decadal variations and the even more extreme yearly changes.

ps:1912 was a big year for bergs heading south - in April 395 bergs, the maximum for April until 1972, and more than the average yearly total in the 1910's
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kassy

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #556 on: March 21, 2021, 09:23:09 PM »
Can we have an april graph?  ;)

Also 1990 really stands out in the last one.
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The Walrus

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #557 on: March 21, 2021, 09:30:56 PM »
Yes, 1912 was a famous year for icebergs.

gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #558 on: March 21, 2021, 10:40:33 PM »
Can we have an april graph?  ;)

Also 1990 really stands out in the last one.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
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gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #559 on: March 21, 2021, 11:12:14 PM »
And one more for luck.
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longwalks1

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #560 on: April 01, 2021, 03:36:41 PM »
I stumbled across the WaPo article about the plants a mile below the ice sheet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/03/15/greenland-ice-sheet-more-vulnerable/

I looked at the web site posted for further information about Project Iceworm.  And $45 is just a bit too much for an article about Project IceWorm and trying to bury nukes in Greenland.   which is how the core originated. 

https://sci-hub.st/https://doi.org/10.1080/03468750701449554

Quote
Scandinavian Journal of HistoryPublication details, including instructions for authors andsubscription information:http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/shis20THE ICEMAN THAT NEVER CAME 
Nikolaj Petersen aa Niels Juels Gade 1,3., DK‐8200 Århus N, Denmark E-mail:Published online: 17 Dec 2007

Quote
In  the  beginning  of  1960  the  US  Army  fostered  an  ambitious,  indeed  revolutionaryplan to deploy a major force of nuclear missiles under the Greenland Icecap – an ideawhich  grew  out  of  its  extensive  research  in  the  previous  decade  of  the  military potentials  of  the  Arctic  environment.  Over  the  next  few  years  the  plan,  known  asProject  Iceworm,  was  promoted  by  the  Army  as  a  response  to  three  challenges:  thestrategic challenge to American security posed by the Soviet ICBMs, the challenge tothe Army’s status posed by the US Air Force and Navy as the primary bearers of theUnited States’ nuclear deterrent, and – when this battle was lost – the challenge ofthe NATO Allies’ demand for ‘a finger on the nuclear trigger’. This battle was also lost by the Army, as the Kennedy Administration settled, in June 1962, for the MLF(Multilateral  Force)  concept,  which  envisaged  a  ship-based  mixed-manned  NATOmissile force.
Eventually, this plan also came to nothing.The Danish Government never got the scent ofProject Iceworm, whose realization
would have turned a large part of the Greenland Icecap into a US or NATO missilebase.

vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #561 on: April 01, 2021, 09:31:04 PM »
Scientists Have Observed Ominous Winter Leaks in Greenland Ice Sheet Lakes
https://earther.gizmodo.com/scientists-have-observed-ominous-winter-leaks-in-greenl-1846592038

For the first time ever, scientists have shown that lakes on Greenland’s ice sheet can drain during the winter months, in a phenomenon that could accelerate the rate of glacial melt.

The rate at which the second largest ice sheet in the world is draining into the northern Atlantic ocean may be occurring faster than we think, according to new research published in the Cryosphere on Wednesday.

As the new paper shows, water that collects on the surface of the Greenland ice sheet during the summer can remain in a liquid state during the winter and leak through cracks that appear along the surface, sending it down to the base below. The drained water then acts like a greasy lubricant, increasing the speed at which ice shelf can move. That’s not an encouraging finding in this, the era of human-induced climate change where Greenland is already losing six times more ice than it was in the 1980s.

... The researchers developed an algorithm to “examine spatial and temporal variations in microwave backscatter from Sentinel-1 satellite synthetic aperture radar (SAR) imagery,” which they did to “document the location and timing of six separate lake drainage events over three different winters,” as the authors wrote in their study.

This technique proved useful, as the chosen microwave wavelength penetrated clouds and darkness, and because the SAR instrument was able to pick up water and ice as distinct signatures. The researchers confirmed the winter lake drainage and offered estimates of how much water is getting lost by using optical data gathered by the Landsat 8 satellite during previous and subsequent melt seasons.

In total, the scientists surveyed 11,758 square miles (30,453 square kilometers) of the Greenland ice sheet from late 2014 through to early 2017. The results showed all six lakes studied—whether buried or covered in a layer of ice—were leaking during the winter months.

Winter drainage of surface lakes on the Greenland Ice Sheet from Sentinel-1 SAR imagery
https://tc.copernicus.org/articles/15/1587/2021/tc-15-1587-2021.pdf
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nukefix

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #562 on: April 02, 2021, 11:47:01 AM »
So at enormous difficulty and at great expense they drill these holes all the way through the ice sheets and completely ignore or forget to bring up a sample of dirt and bedrock from the bottom of the hole.

Scientists with blinkers on, unable to think beyond their narrow specialisation.
Well, it was the US Army which has priorities besides scientific excellence.

gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #563 on: April 02, 2021, 12:01:12 PM »
So at enormous difficulty and at great expense they drill these holes all the way through the ice sheets and completely ignore or forget to bring up a sample of dirt and bedrock from the bottom of the hole.

Scientists with blinkers on, unable to think beyond their narrow specialisation.
Well, it was the US Army which has priorities besides scientific excellence.
I was thinking of all the other holes that have been drilled through the AIS and GIS. Did they bring up a bit of dirt / bedrock, and were these examined? Surely we would have heard something about it if they found signs of organic material down there before this?
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sidd

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #564 on: April 03, 2021, 01:33:03 AM »
Yes. from wikipedia on DYE-3

"Samples from the base of the 2 km deep Dye 3 1979 and the 3 km deep GRIP cores revealed that high-altitude southern Greenland has been inhabited by a diverse array of conifer trees and insects within the past million years"

sidd

gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #565 on: April 03, 2021, 04:10:51 PM »
Yes. from wikipedia on DYE-3

"Samples from the base of the 2 km deep Dye 3 1979 and the 3 km deep GRIP cores revealed that high-altitude southern Greenland has been inhabited by a diverse array of conifer trees and insects within the past million years"

sidd
Thanks sidd.

Qu - How long before our descendants (if we have any) see the return of such vegetation ?

I read a recent science paper recently that suggested that by mid to end of this century, annual Greenland SMB change may be -ve, compared with +360 GT as of now. The change in southern Greenland could be far greater than that.
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sidd

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #566 on: April 04, 2021, 02:29:55 AM »
I think the fastest deglaciation timescale for GIS i have seen is around 500 yr. But i also seem to remenber that the imposed warming in that paper was +6C global, so +12 in the far north ...

I cant remember the name of the authors, and i have not the time right now to look it up,  but recall that AbruptSLR and i discussed it somewhere in one of the threads.

I expect saddle collapse at 67N between the north and south domes to occur faster than that, and that is also suspiciously close to the DYE site. There is a paper by Otto-Bliesner (?) that did a simulation of the Eemian and showed substantial melt at DYE3, DYE 3 was right on the edge of icecover in that model. I believe that paper may have been discussed at the time somewhere on realclimate.

sidd

gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #567 on: April 07, 2021, 11:31:28 PM »
What's new in Greenland?

Greenland's main opposition party has won the general election.

"So what?" you may ask.

READ ON
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56643429

Greenland election: Opposition win casts doubt on mine

Quote
Greenland's main opposition party has won an election which could have major consequences for international interests in the Arctic.

The left-wing Inuit Ataqatigiit, which opposes a mining project in southern Greenland, secured 37% of votes.

Its leader said on Wednesday that the Kvanefjeld mine, home to major deposits of rare minerals, would not go ahead.

The social-democratic Siumut party came second, having been in power for all but four years since 1979.

Inuit Ataqatigiit, an indigenous party with a strong environmental focus, will now seek to form a government.

Greenland is a vast autonomous arctic territory that belongs to Denmark. Although it has a population of just 56,000, the result of the election has been closely followed internationally.
Greenland's economy relies on fishing and subsidies from the Danish government, but as a result of melting ice, mining opportunities are increasing.

What's at stake
The company that owns the site at Kvanefjeld, in the south of the country, says the mine has "the potential to become the most significant western world producer of rare earths", a group of 17 elements used to manufacture electronics and weapons.

However, disagreement over the project led to the collapse of Greenland's government earlier this year, paving the way for Tuesday's snap election. Many locals had raised concerns about the potential for radioactive pollution and toxic waste in the farmland surrounding the proposed mine.

"The people have spoken," Inuit Ataqatigiit's leader Múte Bourup Egede told Danish state broadcaster DR on Wednesday morning, adding that the project would be halted.

The head of the Siumut Party, Erik Jensen, told Denmark's TV 2 he believed the controversy surrounding the Kvanefjeld mine was "one of the main reasons" for its defeat, with 29% of the vote. The party had supported the development, arguing that it would provide hundreds of jobs and generate hundreds of millions of dollars annually over several decades, which could lead to greater independence from Denmark.

Why is Greenland important?


The Kvanefjeld site is owned by an Australian company, Greenland Minerals, which is in turn backed by a Chinese company.

China already has mining deals with Greenland, while the US - which has a key Cold War-era air base at Thule - has offered millions in aid.

Denmark has itself acknowledged the territory's importance: in 2019 it placed Greenland at the top of its national security agenda for the first time.

And in March this year, one think tank concluded that the UK, the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand - known collectively as the Five Eyes - should focus on Greenland to reduce their dependency on China for key mineral supplies.

China wants the mine, the USA probably needs the mine. Perhaps Elon Musk. the other EV manufacturers and Big Tech need the mine. So who do you think is going to win? The Superpowers & Big Tech or a bunch of ordinary Greenlanders
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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be cause

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #568 on: April 08, 2021, 04:55:57 AM »
    talking @ Greenland , it seems very unusual to have depressions passing W - E across the north of Greenland , then deepening in the N. Atlantic . There are 2 forecast in the days ahead .
   Or is it normal ? b.c.
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VeliAlbertKallio

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #569 on: April 08, 2021, 05:26:08 AM »
What's new in Greenland? Greenland's main opposition party has won the general election. "So what?" you may ask. <snip> China wants the mine, the USA probably needs the mine. Perhaps Elon Musk. the other EV manufacturers and Big Tech need the mine. So who do you think is going to win? The Superpowers & Big Tech or a bunch of ordinary Greenlanders
The EV has resolved itself very recently: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/03/28/british-firm-cracks-electric-car-motor-conundrum/
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OffTheGrid

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #570 on: April 10, 2021, 08:27:43 PM »
A lot of Tsunami.

Here's one of several on YouTube in the last week


Jim Hunt

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #571 on: April 10, 2021, 08:34:12 PM »
The EV has resolved itself very recently: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/03/28/british-firm-cracks-electric-car-motor-conundrum/

At the risk of drifting off topic, the ToryGraph tends to be behind the curve on these matters. See also this 2015 press release:

https://ricardo.com/news-and-media/news-and-press/ricardo-develops-next-generation-electric-vehicle
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grixm

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #572 on: April 10, 2021, 08:38:27 PM »
A lot of Tsunami.

Here's one of several on YouTube in the last week

(youtube link)

It says in the description this was in June 2017, so probably this one: https://ce.gatech.edu/news/after-recon-trip-researchers-say-greenland-tsunami-june-reached-300-feet-high

P-maker

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #573 on: April 20, 2021, 05:26:19 PM »
New SPOT data from Greenland 2020 (1.6m resolution) are available for FTP download, following this link: https://kortforsyningen.dk/indhold/satellitfotos-gronland

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #574 on: May 06, 2021, 06:45:00 AM »
I didn't have the time to make GIFs, but there were at least two other recent calvings on the E coast:

Ussing Braeer Glacier : 3rd-4th May

E end of Wolstenholme Fjord (Uummannap Kangerlua) : 2nd-3rd May

Don't know how unusual this calving is for this time of year, but it looks like there is a lot of melt along the entire coast already.

gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #575 on: May 17, 2021, 10:46:46 PM »
What's new in Greenland? Doom?

PNAS paper (paywalled - anybody got 10 bucks?) and dated May 25 2021 (back to the future?) @ https://www.pnas.org/content/118/21/e2024192118

Critical slowing down suggests that the western Greenland Ice Sheet is close to a tipping point

Quote
Significance
It has been suggested that, in response to anthropogenic global warming, the Greenland Ice Sheet may reach a tipping point beyond which its current configuration would become unstable. A crucial nonlinear mechanism for the existence of this tipping point is the positive melt-elevation feedback: Melting reduces ice sheet height, exposing the ice sheet surface to warmer temperatures, which further accelerates melting. We reveal early-warning signals for a forthcoming critical transition from ice-core-derived height reconstructions and infer that the western Greenland Ice Sheet has been losing stability in response to rising temperatures. We show that the melt-elevation feedback is likely to be responsible for the observed destabilization. Our results suggest substantially enhanced melting in the near future.

Abstract

The Greenland Ice Sheet (GrIS) is a potentially unstable component of the Earth system and may exhibit a critical transition under ongoing global warming. Mass reductions of the GrIS have substantial impacts on global sea level and the speed of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, due to the additional freshwater caused by increased meltwater runoff into the northern Atlantic. The stability of the GrIS depends crucially on the positive melt-elevation feedback (MEF), by which melt rates increase as the overall ice sheet height decreases under rising temperatures. Melting rates across Greenland have accelerated nonlinearly in recent decades, and models predict a critical temperature threshold beyond which the current ice sheet state is not maintainable. Here, we investigate long-term melt rate and ice sheet height reconstructions from the central-western GrIS in combination with model simulations to quantify the stability of this part of the GrIS. We reveal significant early-warning signals (EWS) indicating that the central-western GrIS is close to a critical transition. By relating the statistical EWS to underlying physical processes, our results suggest that the MEF plays a dominant role in the observed, ongoing destabilization of the central-western GrIS. Our results suggest substantial further GrIS mass loss in the near future and call for urgent, observation-constrained stability assessments of other parts of the GrIS.

& Guardian Article (did they have to pay 10 bucks?)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/17/greenland-ice-sheet-on-brink-of-major-tipping-point-says-study
Greenland ice sheet on brink of major tipping point, says study

Scientists say ice equivalent to 1-2 metres of sea level rise is probably already doomed to melt

Quote
A significant part of the Greenland ice sheet is on the brink of a tipping point, after which accelerated melting would become inevitable even if global heating was halted, according to new research.

Rising temperatures caused by the climate crisis have already seen trillions of tonnes of Greenland’s ice pour into the ocean. Melting its ice sheet completely would eventually raise global sea level by 7 metres.

The new analysis detected the warning signals of a tipping point in a 140-year record of ice-sheet height and melting rates in the Jakobshavn basin, one of the five biggest basins in Greenland and the fastest-melting. The prime suspect for a surge in melting is a vicious circle in which melting reduces the height of the ice sheet, exposing it to the warmer air found at lower altitudes, which causes further melting.

The study shows destabilisation of this ice sheet is under way. Uncertainties in the research meant it might already be at the point of no return, or be about to cross it in the coming decades, the scientists said. However, even if the tipping point was crossed, it did not mean that the entire ice sheet was doomed, they said, because there might be a stable state for a smaller ice sheet.

“We’re at the brink, and every year with CO2 emissions continuing as usual exponentially increases the probability of crossing the tipping point,” said Niklas Boers at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, Germany, who conducted the research with Martin Rypdal from the Arctic University of Norway. “It might have passed [the tipping point], but it’s not clear. However, our results suggest there will be substantially enhanced melting in the near future, which is worrying.”

Boers said ice equivalent to 1-2 metres of sea level rise was probably already doomed to melt, though this would take centuries and melting the whole ice sheet would take a millennium. “We would probably have to drive temperatures back below pre-industrial levels to get back to the original height of the Greenland ice sheet,” he said.

“The current and near-future ice loss will be largely irreversible,” he said. “That’s why it is high time we rapidly and substantially reduce emissions from burning fossil fuels and restabilise the ice sheet and our climate.”

The new research examined just one part of Greenland, but Boers said there was no reason in principle that it should be different from other parts of the giant ice sheet: “We might be seeing something that is happening in many parts of Greenland, but we just don’t know for sure, because we don’t have the high-quality data for other parts.”
_______________________________________________
ps: Another acronym for the glossary?
MEF The stability of the GrIS depends crucially on the positive melt-elevation feedback (MEF), by which melt rates increase as the overall ice sheet height decreases under rising temperatures.
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vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #576 on: May 17, 2021, 10:54:55 PM »

7 down & 2 to go
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gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #577 on: May 17, 2021, 11:24:18 PM »

7 down & 2 to go
I've just noticed that the roundel in the image for the West Antarctic Ice sheet is in the wrong place.

Should be in the Amundsen embayment?
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vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #578 on: May 18, 2021, 12:50:19 AM »


They have it over the Wendell Sea/ Ronne Ice Shelf. The WAIS is bounded by the Ross Ice Shelf, the Ronne Ice Shelf, and outlet glaciers that drain into the Amundsen Sea.

So, you're both right
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 12:57:11 AM by vox_mundi »
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zufall

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #579 on: May 19, 2021, 05:18:42 PM »
What's new in Greenland? Doom?

PNAS paper (paywalled - anybody got 10 bucks?) and dated May 25 2021 (back to the future?) @ https://www.pnas.org/content/118/21/e2024192118

Thanks for the link!
The only additional information available for free is this supplement:

https://www.pnas.org/highwire/filestream/985070/field_highwire_adjunct_files/0/pnas.2024192118.sapp.pdf

I don't understand most of it, but the picture below should be self-explanatory. According to the image, the ice sheet height has been on a downward slope since the 1850s.


gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #580 on: May 21, 2021, 01:27:49 PM »
Yet another paper - this time on changes to Greenland SMB

In the worst case scenario reductions in Greenland SMB cause an increase in Sea Level of over 1mm per year. Note also that on the fringes that could mean a loss equivalent of up to 4 metres of solid ice per annum.

Note also that the high uncertainty within each scenario is mainly caused by the different climate models.

https://tc.copernicus.org/preprints/tc-2021-128/tc-2021-128.pdf
Sources of Uncertainty in Greenland Surface Mass Balance in the 21st century.
Quote
Abstract.
The surface mass balance (SMB) of the Greenland Ice Sheet is subject to considerable uncertainties that complicate predictions of sea level rise caused by climate change. We examine the SMB of the Greenland Ice Sheet in the 21st century with the surface energy and mass balance model BESSI. To estimate the uncertainty of the SMB, we conduct simulations for
four greenhouse gas emission scenarios using the output of a wide range of climate models from the sixth phase of the Coupled 5 Model Intercomparison Project (CMIP6) to force BESSI. In addition, the uncertainty of the SMB simulation is estimated by using 16 different parameter sets in our SMB model.

The median SMB across climate models and parameter sets, integrated over the ice sheet, decreases over time for every emission scenario. As expected, the decrease in SMB is stronger for higher greenhouse gas emissions.

The regional distribution of the resulting SMB shows the most substantial SMB decrease in western Greenland for all climate models, whereas the differences between the climate models are most pronounced in the north and 10 in the area around the equilibrium line.

Temperature and precipitation are the input variables of the snow model that have the largest influence on the SMB and the largest differences between climate models. In our ensemble, the range of uncertainty in the SMB is greater than in other studies that used fewer climate models as forcing. An analysis of the different sources of uncertainty shows that the uncertainty caused by the different climate models for a given scenario is larger than the uncertainty caused by the climate scenarios.

In comparison, the uncertainty caused by the snow model parameters is negligible, leaving the
uncertainty of the climate models as the main reason for SMB uncertainty
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 01:35:49 PM by gerontocrat »
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #581 on: May 21, 2021, 04:56:56 PM »
Very interesting that at least one model predict no net loss of Greenland ice mass in 2100.  [Does it presume we get to 350ppm CO2 by 2050, and stay there?]  Even as I understand that more ice loss could cause more snow (more water vapor available to fall as snow in high places), I'm surprised to see how much of Greenland is predicted to have a net gain.
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vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #582 on: May 24, 2021, 07:26:06 PM »
Researchers Find Greenland Glacial Meltwaters Rich In Mercury
https://phys.org/news/2021-05-greenland-glacial-meltwaters-rich-mercury.html

New research shows that concentrations of the toxic element mercury in rivers and fjords connected to the Greenland Ice Sheet are comparable to rivers in industrial China, an unexpected finding that is raising questions about the effects of glacial melting in an area that is a major exporter of seafood.

... Typical dissolved mercury content in rivers are about 1—10 ng L-1 (the equivalent of a salt grain-sized amount of mercury in an Olympic swimming pool of water). In the glacier meltwater rivers sampled in Greenland, scientists found dissolved mercury levels in excess of 150 ng L-1, far higher than an average river. Particulate mercury carried by glacial flour (the sediment that makes glacial rivers look milky) was found in very high concentrations of more than 2000 ng L-1.

"We didn't expect there would be anywhere near that amount of mercury in the glacial water there," said Associate Professor of Earth, Ocean and Atmospheric Science Rob Spencer. "Naturally, we have hypotheses as to what is leading to these high mercury concentrations, but these findings have raised a whole host of questions that we don't have the answers to yet."

Fishing is Greenland's primary industry with the country being a major exporter of cold-water shrimp, halibut and cod.

... Hawkings also said it was worth noting that this source of mercury is very likely coming from the Earth itself, as opposed to a fossil fuel combustion or other industrial source. That may matter in how scientists and policymakers think about the management of mercury pollution in the future.

"All the efforts to manage mercury thus far have come from the idea that the increasing concentrations we have been seeing across the Earth system come primarily from direct anthropogenic activity, like industry," Hawkings said. "But mercury coming from climatically sensitive environments like glaciers could be a source that is much more difficult to manage."



Large subglacial source of mercury from the southwestern margin of the Greenland Ice Sheet, Nature Geoscience (2021).
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-021-00753-w
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Mr. Ä

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #583 on: June 02, 2021, 04:24:44 PM »
Effect of ice sheet thickness on formation of the Hiawatha impact crater

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012821X21002314

New study on Hiawatha crater formation.

Stephan

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #584 on: July 16, 2021, 09:24:01 PM »
Grønland's government has decided to stop further oil exploration around the world's largest island. This is one little brickstone in the to-be-built wall against further CO2 emissions.
https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/weltwirtschaft/groenland-arktis-erdoel-klimaschutz-101.html
(in German)
In addition the government also wants to stop further uranium explorations.
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Stumbi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #585 on: August 01, 2021, 12:42:06 AM »
Nice lake drainage east of Nuuk
Kangiata Nunaata Sermia (hope this is the right name)
1. Gif
2. Overview JPEG of the area with outflow
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 12:54:30 AM by Stumbi »
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Stephan

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #586 on: August 01, 2021, 09:03:37 PM »
Very nice catch.  :)
I always wonder whether such drainage events with masses of flowing water into/underneath a glacier will cause severe damage to those glaciers.
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Mr. Ä

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #587 on: August 24, 2021, 08:11:22 AM »
A lot of ice at the south western coast, for examble Frederikshaab, is very reddish. Is that red algae on the ice? It's even redder than last year so I guess the algae liked the rain or it's abundance is effected by the previous year. If so it can keep growing more and more until all the ice is gone.

kassy

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #588 on: August 28, 2021, 09:37:09 PM »
Weird 'Water Blisters' Can Tell Us What's Going on Underneath Greenland's Ice Sheets

Figuring out what's going on underneath a kilometer (over half a mile) of solid Greenland ice isn't easy for scientists, but the rise and fall of 'water blisters' could offer some vital insights into the deep flow of water and ice, according to a new study.

These blisters form between the ice sheet and the bedrock underneath, created as natural meltwater lakes on the surface drain down through fractures in the ice and fill in cavities. From there the water permeates into the drainage system underneath the glacier.

What researchers have now discovered, through a combination of field measurements, modeling, and lab experiments, is that these blisters can push the ice upwards as they form and cause it to drop back down as they recede.

That means they can be used to estimate transmissivity – the efficiency of the water networks that form between the ice and the bedrock underneath – and to better understand how increased melting caused by climate change could affect the overall stability of the ice sheet.

"We know that as the climate warms in the future, the surface melt zone can expand and migrate to higher elevations than currently observed," says geoscientist Ching-Yao Lai from Princeton University.

"A big question that remains to be answered, however, is how much transmissivity can increase further inland."

and more on:
https://www.sciencealert.com/weird-water-blisters-can-tell-us-what-s-going-on-underneath-greenland-s-ice-sheets
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Richard Rathbone

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #589 on: September 09, 2021, 12:10:38 PM »
https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/geology/article/doi/10.1130/G49048.1/607467/Tunnel-valley-infill-and-genesis-revealed-by-high

A record of what happened under the North Sea when it was a melting icesheet (and hence an example of the sorts of things happening under Greenland's ice sheet as that melts today)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58479485

Quote
"These patterns we see in the seismic data show us what the sub-glacial rivers were doing over many years, centuries even, as the ice was retreating," explained BAS co-author Dr Kelly Hogan. "And they also show us how that ice on top was behaving. We can see where it was moving quickly or where it had simply stagnated and melted away,"

kassy

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #590 on: September 13, 2021, 02:15:23 PM »
Melting Ice Sheet in Greenland May Trigger Tsunamis and Underwater Landslides, Expert Warn

The rapid melting of ice sheets in Greenland poses a very alarming ocean conditions for the UK.

Professor Bill McGuire of earth sciences at University College London said this could trigger catastrophic consequences for Britain. In fact, the disappearing sheets could lead to earthquakes and 'submarine' landslides in Greenland which is only 1,500 miles away.

These underwater landsides could mean tsunamis for west of the UK, imposing threats in coastal areas.

"Greenland has been covered in ice for at least 100,000 years. Those faults in the Earth's crust will have been accumulating strain for a very long time," said Professor McGuire at a British Science Festival in Chelmsford, Essex.

"That could certainly impact on the UK. It's not certain, but people who have worked on this say they have speculated about what they call a seismic response in the Greenland area within decades. Britain is in the line of fire."

...

https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/47434/20210913/melting-ice-tsunami-underwater-landslide-greenland.htm

PS: don´t bother with the link in the article since it just leads to the same article on the Daily Mail site. Not much detail over all but a fun fact to throw in when discussing climate change over high tea.  ;)
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johnm33

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #591 on: October 09, 2021, 01:25:35 PM »
Not so much about what's new in Greeland but anyone relatively new here should maybe look through this whilst things are quiet.

vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #592 on: October 13, 2021, 12:02:07 AM »
Researchers Find Greenland's Groundwater Changes With Thinning Ice Sheet
https://phys.org/news/2021-10-greenland-groundwater-thinning-ice-sheet.html

As outlined in their recent article in Nature Geoscience, Meierbachtol, Harper and an international team of researchers discovered that changes to the ice sheet have an immediate impact on the groundwater underlying the Greenland island, an area larger than the state of Alaska.

This latest revelation occurred thanks to a marriage of drilling techniques, with international collaborators boring an angled hole 650 meters through bedrock underneath a Greenland glacier to measure groundwater conditions deep under the ice sheet. Meanwhile, UM and University of Wyoming researchers drilled 32 holes from atop the glacier, through nearly a kilometer of ice, to measure water conditions at the interface between ice and bedrock, which forms an important boundary controlling groundwater flow below.

The dual drilling approach facilitated the first-ever measurements of groundwater response to a changing ice sheet, and the eight-year data record yielded some unexpected results.

"By studying areas that were covered by ice 10,000 years ago during the last ice age, the field has known that the huge mass and vast amounts of water from melting ice can impact the underlying groundwater," Meierbachtol said, "but the paradigm has been that the groundwater response to ice sheet change is long: Thousands of years. What we've shown here is that the groundwater response to Greenland's change is immediate."

This new understanding could have important downstream implications for how Greenland's thinning impacts the Arctic, Harper said. The thinning ice could reduce the rate of groundwater flow to the ocean, changing the water temperature and salinity balance that is important for ocean circulation patterns.

"In thinking about the complex feedbacks that occur from Greenland's ongoing change, we as a field have really neglected the groundwater component because we thought it was more or less dormant over the decade to century timescales that are important for us as a society," Harper said. "But now we recognize that the groundwater system actually changes quite rapidly, and there are some compelling reasons for why this could really matter for the broader Arctic."

Lillemor Claesson Liljedahl et al, Rapid and sensitive response of Greenland's groundwater system to ice sheet change, Nature Geoscience (2021).
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-021-00813-1
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gerontocrat

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #593 on: November 09, 2021, 03:28:49 PM »
Run off from the Greenland ice sheet increasing while inter-annual variation also increases.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26229-4
Increased variability in Greenland Ice Sheet runoff from satellite observations
Quote
Abstract
Runoff from the Greenland Ice Sheet has increased over recent decades affecting global sea level, regional ocean circulation, and coastal marine ecosystems, and it now accounts for most of the contemporary mass imbalance. Estimates of runoff are typically derived from regional climate models because satellite records have been limited to assessments of melting extent. Here, we use CryoSat-2 satellite altimetry to produce direct measurements of Greenland’s runoff variability, based on seasonal changes in the ice sheet’s surface elevation.

Between 2011 and 2020, Greenland’s ablation zone thinned on average by 1.4 ± 0.4 m each summer and thickened by 0.9 ± 0.4 m each winter. By adjusting for the steady-state divergence of ice, we estimate that runoff was 357 ± 58 Gt/yr on average – in close agreement with regional climate model simulations (root mean square difference of 47 to 60 Gt/yr). As well as being 21 % higher between 2011 and 2020 than over the preceding three decades, runoff is now also 60 % more variable from year-to-year as a consequence of large-scale fluctuations in atmospheric circulation. Because this variability is not captured in global climate model simulations, our satellite record of runoff should help to refine them and improve confidence in their projections.

click images to enlarge
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ms

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #594 on: November 10, 2021, 05:17:02 PM »
New article - similar results to above, more details and daily updates to product.

Greenland ice sheet mass balance from 1840 through next week

Abstract
The mass of the Greenland ice sheet is declining as mass gain from snow accumulation is exceeded by mass loss from surface meltwater runoff, marine-terminating glacier calving and submarine melting, and basal melting. Here we use the input–output (IO) method to estimate mass change from 1840 through next week. Surface mass balance (SMB) gains and losses come from a semi-empirical SMB model from 1840 through 1985 and three regional climate models (RCMs; HIRHAM/HARMONIE, Modèle Atmosphérique Régional – MAR, and RACMO – Regional Atmospheric Climate MOdel) from 1986 through next week. Additional non-SMB losses come from a marine-terminating glacier ice discharge product and a basal mass balance model. From these products we provide an annual estimate of Greenland ice sheet mass balance from 1840 through 1985 and a daily estimate at sector and region scale from 1986 through next week. This product updates daily and is the first IO product to include the basal mass balance which is a source of an additional ∼24 Gt yr−1 of mass loss. Our results demonstrate an accelerating ice-sheet-scale mass loss and general agreement (coefficient of determination, r2, ranges from 0.62 to 0.94) among six other products, including gravitational, volume, and other IO mass balance estimates. Results from this study are available at https://doi.org/10.22008/FK2/OHI23Z (Mankoff et al., 2021).

Link to article: https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/13/5001/2021/

vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #595 on: December 15, 2021, 10:05:05 PM »
Using the Earth's Noise to See Beneath the Greenland Ice Sheet
https://phys.org/news/2021-12-earth-noise-beneath-greenland-ice.html



The noise created by the Earth's movements has been used to build up a detailed picture of the geological conditions beneath the Greenland Ice Sheet and the impact on ice flow, described in new research led by Swansea University.

The team studied Rayleigh waves—seismic waves generated by movements such as earthquakes—to produce high-resolution images of the rocks underneath the ice sheet, helping to identify which areas are most susceptible to faster ice flow.

In 2009, a permanent network of seismic monitoring stations was installed across Greenland, and they have been used in previous research. However, these studies have offered limited insight on the geological controls on the ice sheet.

This is where the new research comes in. The team was able to map out what is happening down as far as 5 kilometers by measuring Rayleigh waves extracted from the Earth's noise. These seismic waves travel along the Earth's surface and are sensitive to variations in Earth's properties.

By measuring the speed, shape and duration of the waves, researchers are able to work out what material they are traveling through: The mechanical properties of the rocks, such as rigidity and density; the layering of the rocks and the physical properties of the surface soil. 

Rayleigh waves travel in an elliptical pattern and the specific feature that the researchers assessed was the horizontal to vertical ratio of particle motion within the waves.

They found:

  • Regions of high geothermal heat concurrent with the proposed historical location of the Iceland hotspot track
  • Soft sedimentary substrates beneath major fast flowing outlet glaciers, revealed by lower wave speeds
  • Some outlet glaciers are particularly susceptible to basal slip, including Jakobshavn, Helheim and Kangerdlussuaq
  • Geothermal warming and softening of basal ice may affect the onset of faster ice flow at Petermann Glacier and the Northeast Greenland Ice Stream.

G. A. Jones et al, Uppermost crustal structure regulates the flow of the Greenland Ice Sheet, Nature Communications (2021)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27537-5
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Stephan

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #596 on: January 13, 2022, 09:29:55 PM »
Two basic lectures about the state, the past and the future of the Greenland Ice Sheet, held along the COP26 in Glasgow (UK)
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longwalks1

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #597 on: January 20, 2022, 09:31:11 PM »
Not the best presentation I have ever seen.  The male alpha presenter is weak in detailed knowledge and evidently ignorant of Mitrovic.   The woman is much more capable.   but the missing gem is the differential cosmic ray  effects on soil isotopes post grad of ice versus bare soil by the missing post doc who has the unpublished paper that there were ooohs an aaahs for.  It takes so long for papers like that to get out. 

But of course this was a  COP 20something with little done and not AGU presentations. 

 I lost much respect of the alpha man when he stated that the sea level fall occurring around  much of Greenland was isostatic rebound.  Isostatic is    "s  l  o  w".   The application of Newtonian methods yields the near instantaneous local effect where local ocean water is being less attracted to Greenlands glaciers because of less gravitational pull.     Mitrovic has many good presentations out.    I stopped watching at that point. 

The other part that saddened me is the stated desire of meeting the 1.5 degree goal.   That is definitely fading into a pinpoint of light in the rear mirror that will soon require a microscope to see. 

To all the good sleuths here, I hope to see the cosmic ray papers presented here. 

vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #598 on: January 26, 2022, 04:00:52 PM »
Ancient Ice Reveals Mysterious Solar Storm
https://phys.org/news/2022-01-ancient-ice-reveals-mysterious-solar.html

Through analyzes of ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica, a research team led by Lund University in Sweden has found evidence of an extreme solar storm that occurred about 9,200 years ago. What puzzles the researchers is that the storm took place during one of the sun's more quiet phases—during which it is generally believed our planet is less exposed to such events

Predicting solar storms is difficult. It is currently believed that they are more likely during an active phase of the sun, or solar maximum, during the so-called sunspot cycle. However, the new study published in Nature Communications shows that this may not always be the case for very large storms.

... "We have studied drill cores from Greenland and Antarctica, and discovered traces of a massive solar storm that hit Earth during one of the sun's passive phases about 9,200 years ago," says Raimund Muscheler, geology researcher at Lund University.

The researchers scoured the drill cores for peaks of the radioactive isotopes beryllium-10 and chlorine-36. These are produced by high-energy cosmic particles that reach Earth, and can be preserved in ice and sediment.



If a similar solar storm were to take place today, it could have devastating consequences. In addition to power outages and radiation damage to satellites, it could pose a danger to air traffic and astronauts as well as a collapse of various communication systems.

Chiara I. Paleari et al, Cosmogenic radionuclides reveal an extreme solar particle storm near a solar minimum 9125 years BP, Nature Communications (2022).
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27891-4
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vox_mundi

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Re: What's new in Greenland?
« Reply #599 on: February 21, 2022, 10:30:11 PM »
Accelerating Melt Rate Makes Greenland Ice Sheet World's Largest 'Dam'
https://phys.org/news/2022-02-greenland-ice-sheet-world-largest.html

Researchers have observed extremely high rates of melting at the bottom of the Greenland Ice Sheet, caused by huge quantities of meltwater falling from the surface to the base. As the meltwater falls, energy is converted into heat in a process like the hydroelectric power generated by large dams.

Melt rates measured at the base of the ice sheet are several orders of magnitude higher than previous estimates

An international team of scientists, led by the University of Cambridge, found that the effect of meltwater descending from the surface of the ice sheet to the bed—a kilometer or more below—is by far the largest heat source beneath the world's second-largest ice sheet, leading to phenomenally high rates of melting at its base.

The current work, which includes researchers from Aberystwyth University, is the culmination of a seven-year study focused on Store Glacier, one of the largest outlets from the Greenland Ice Sheet.

The researchers calculated that as much as 82 million cubic meters of meltwater was transferred to the bed of Store Glacier every day during the summer of 2014. They estimate the power produced by the falling water during peak melt periods was comparable to the power produced by the Three Gorges Dam in China, the world's largest hydroelectric power station. With a melt area that expands to nearly a million square kilometers at the height of summer, the Greenland Ice Sheet produces more hydropower than the world's ten largest hydroelectric power stations combined.

"Given what we are witnessing at the high latitudes in terms of climate change, this form of hydropower could easily double or triple, and we're still not even including these numbers when we estimate the ice sheet's contribution to sea level rise," said Christoffersen.

To verify the high basal melt rates recorded by the radar system, the team integrated independent temperature measurements from sensors installed in a nearby borehole. At the base, they found the temperature of water to be as high as +0.88 degrees Celsius, which is unexpectedly warm for an ice sheet base with a melting point of -0.40 degrees.

"The borehole observations confirmed that the meltwater heats up when it hits the bed," said Christoffersen. "The reason is that the basal drainage system is a lot less efficient than the fractures and conduits that bring the water through the ice. The reduced drainage efficiency causes frictional heating within the water itself. When we took this heat source out of our calculations, the theoretical melt rate estimates were a full two orders of magnitude out. The heat generated by the falling water is melting the ice from the bottom up, and the melt rate we are reporting is completely unprecedented."

The study presents the first concrete evidence of an ice-sheet mass-loss mechanism, which is not yet included in projections of global sea level rise. While the high melt rates are specific to heat produced in subglacial drainage paths carrying surface water, the volume of surface water produced in Greenland is huge and growing, and nearly all of it drains to the bed.



Rapid basal melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet from surface meltwater drainage, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2022).

https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1810/331405/PNAS-main.pdf?sequence=3&isAllowed=y

https://www.erc-responder.eu/
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― anonymous

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late