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Author Topic: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming  (Read 328 times)

FrostKing70

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Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« on: October 20, 2020, 05:37:25 PM »
I don't have the deep science background (and math!) to determine if this is a crazy idea or feasible.   Tossing this out for discussion and input from the forum:

Could we combine existing technologies and create systems to harness radiative cooling during polar night to release energy into outer space to buy us time to reach a carbon neutral society, and then to start removing carbon from the atmosphere?

In my mind we use wave action or currents to pump water into the atmosphere, atomizing it so that it freezes in the polar night and the energy released is then radiated into space.   This would create "ice islands" which would contain salt, but would grow thicker during the polar night.   There are probably some issues with scale / size of the equipment, so there would likely be hundreds, or thousands,  of these deployed at both ends of the world.

Obviously, there are a lot of questions!  Some which come to mind:

1.  Would this work in the harsh environment?
2.  What possible downsides could there be?
3.  Could we release enough energy this way to create a measurable difference?
4.  Others?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 06:21:43 PM by FrostKing70 »

kassy

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2020, 11:05:00 PM »
Well that won´t work.

The current problem is that the old Arctic was more or less a desert (wrt vapour in the air column) while our *new* Arctic with seas open year round already enables much more vapour which keeps heat in during Arctic night because it used not to be there.

This whole scheme won´t work.

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

oren

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2020, 03:54:09 AM »
Besides the very real issue of technical feasibility in the harsh environment, there is the obvious effect that this will heat the atmosphere as well as increase its humidity, while cooling the ocean. As the thermal capacity of the atmosphere is smaller, you would unleash an enhanced version of Arctic Amplification.

El Cid

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2020, 07:50:11 AM »
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to stop emitting carbon? I bet it would. All this geoengineering is like (bad analogy again, I know) cutting yourself with a blade and while you keep cutting, you think about which hospital would be best for you. STOP CUTTING YOURSELF IDIOT!
 :)

nanning

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2020, 10:19:23 AM »
Very good El Cid :)

We have a Netherlandic saying that goes "dweilen met de kraan open", English translation: "mopping with the faucet open".
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Richard Rathbone

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2020, 11:36:20 AM »
The most effective way to increase radiation losses from the arctic during winter is to take the ice away. Open water is much better at putting out radiation than ice is.

Just get rid of the ice.

Which it seems we are doing anyway.

Problem solved! ;)



Archimid

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2020, 01:26:10 PM »
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to stop emitting carbon? I bet it would. All this geoengineering is like (bad analogy again, I know) cutting yourself with a blade and while you keep cutting, you think about which hospital would be best for you. STOP CUTTING YOURSELF IDIOT!
 :)

If we stopped all human emissions today the world would still warm for decades and the Arctic will be lost anyway. That would have been the solution 20-30 years ago.

Carbon is a problem no matter what, so we must reduce emissions no matter what but the Earth is already overheated. We must actively cool down the planet to stop the Arctic collapse.



I still think SRM during summer is the best stop-gap measure to save us.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

kassy

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2020, 01:44:18 PM »
But how would you do that?

And btw: SRM is Solar Radiation Management?
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Archimid

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2020, 02:07:32 PM »
Yes, SRM = Solar Radiation Management.


I would do solar radiation management from space using satellite constellations with solar sails that reduce the net solar radiation that falls on Earth. But most SRM schemes I've seen involve chemical management of the atmosphere or albedo changes.

I think managing solar radiation from within the Earth system has a very high probability of unintended consequences. 

However, managing solar radiation from space is chemically inert (except for launch considerations) and quickly reversible if something goes wrong (crash the satellites).

It might be expensive at first but, in the long run, it is sustainable.

This may be the beginning of a Dyson sphere, but only if we successfully adapt to climate change.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Ken Feldman

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2020, 06:45:31 PM »
SRM does nothing to address ocean acidification, which is going to cause huge problems with the food chain.

We need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to below the level of natural sinks as we can as soon as possible.  And we need to implement land use changes to take carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.  We have the technologies to replant forests, use biochar and sustainable agriculture practices to store more carbon in soils (while increasing crop yields) and even farm kelp to protect fisheries from acidification.  You can then feed the kelp to ruminants to reduce their methane emissions.

There's no need for speculative geoengineering experiments that use a lot of energy and could have unintended consequences.

El Cid

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Re: Radiative Cooling During Polar Night to Slow Global Warming
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2020, 07:50:27 PM »
We need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to below the level of natural sinks as we can as soon as possible.  And we need to implement land use changes to take carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.  We have the technologies to replant forests, use biochar and sustainable agriculture practices to store more carbon in soils (while increasing crop yields) and even farm kelp to protect fisheries from acidification.  You can then feed the kelp to ruminants to reduce their methane emissions.

There's no need for speculative geoengineering experiments that use a lot of energy and could have unintended consequences.

Totally agree. We no what to do, we no how to do it, we have the solution. No need for questionable techno-experiments