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Author Topic: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?  (Read 114288 times)

Shared Humanity

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1050 on: November 03, 2019, 02:52:52 AM »

sidd

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1051 on: November 05, 2019, 02:55:05 AM »
Varoufakis at commondreams :

"let me challenge the term “neoliberal.” The use of the term in relation to West-Soviet relations was just a cloak under which to hide libertarian industrial feudalism, but neoliberalism has as much to do with financialized capital post-1970s as it does with Cold War geopolitical relations"

"Gigantic bank bailouts are funded through taxation. There is nothing really “neoliberal” about the use of such vast subsidies from the public to finance capitalists."

"I don’t think we should concede the term “neoliberalism” to the brutish establishment using state power to redistribute wealth from the haves to the have-nots."

"Banks could not do as they pleased; that’s why bankers hated the Bretton Woods system. Recall that Roosevelt banned bankers from attending the Bretton Woods conference and subjected them to reserve controls and rules against shifting money across international borders."

"So, if you think of capitalism as a voting mechanism, it is anti-democratic in the sense that money determines power."

"power has been redistributed from the political sphere to the economic sphere. "

" What we now call democracy is not real democracy given the growing influence of economic power."

"Since the end of the Bretton Woods system in the 1970s, power has migrated to finance. "

"Capitalism is predicated on defeating democracy, even as the democratic cloak continues to legitimize the prevailing system."

"I’m an old-fashioned lefty. I don’t believe in destroying institutions. I believe in taking them over and transforming them into true public servants."

"Let’s not forget that the historical call was not for workers of each nation to organize within their borders. It was for workers of the world to unite."

"Anybody who doesn’t learn from history is a dangerous fanatic. Lesson number one is that socialist nationalism is the worst antidote to national socialism."

"the present system is, simply stated, both awful and unsustainable."

"We need to emancipate progressives from the notion that strong borders protect the working class. They do not. They are a scar on the face of the Earth, and they harm labor across the world."

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/11/02/another-europe-possible

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wili

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1052 on: November 05, 2019, 04:42:33 AM »
"I don’t think we should concede the term “neoliberalism” to the brutish establishment using state power to redistribute wealth from the haves to the have-nots."

Did he get that last part switched around, or am I missing something here?
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

sidd

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1053 on: November 05, 2019, 09:05:58 AM »
Yes that quote seems backwards ...

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Neven

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1054 on: November 05, 2019, 10:07:14 AM »
Varoufakis is great at blah-blah, but if he is so mega-smart, why doesn't he simply explain that the problem is concentrated wealth, and that the solution is to deconcentrate it?

Quote
Anybody who doesn’t learn from history is a dangerous fanatic.

History teaches us that when wealth is allowed to have no bounds, it will take over and then destroy itself and everything attached to it. That's the vicious cycle we have been in ever since the invention of agriculture (allowing people to store grains and thus make others dependent on them).
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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1055 on: November 05, 2019, 10:09:38 AM »
Another solution is to abolish inheritance.

100% goes to the state after you die. A part of it will be evenly redistributed and a part will be used to rebuild public utilities such as free public electrified transport, free healthcare, reinstate a real 'safety net' etc. Rebuild with a much more equal society. Free and improved education. No more private schools, hospitals, aeroplanes etc. Have a much more potent national government to face the looming disaster of AGW/biosphere collapse.

Personal wealth during lifetime: OK
Familiy wealth: Gone :)
(family empires gone at last. Finally a reset of the accumulation system)

An extremely important extra: the possibility that every newborn human will have equal opportunities.

It's just your wealth. You don't need it when you're dead. Why not abolish inheritance? Why not?
(Empire. Accumulation.)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1056 on: November 05, 2019, 12:48:09 PM »
100% goes to the state after you die. A part of it will be evenly redistributed and a part will be used to rebuild public utilities such as free public electrified transport, free healthcare, reinstate a real 'safety net' etc.

And a very large part will be swallowed up by bureaucracy, with mighty officials making sure their kids/relatives inherit their position. In fact, this would be an incentive for government to start killing people.

You need to limit how much a person can own, not put it at zero. There is some truth to the criticism of libertarians that if the government controls everything, things will go downhill fast. Government is just another corporation with monopolistic tendencies, trying to circumvent limits in its own way.
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wili

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1057 on: November 05, 2019, 03:05:44 PM »
Ideally, of course, the government is in the hands of the people, and (ideally again) no one person has extraordinary influence over government if monetary power were kept fairly equal.

Ideally...
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

nanning

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1058 on: November 05, 2019, 06:38:15 PM »
<snip>
You need to limit how much a person can own, not put it at zero.

I didn't write that. I wrote "Personal wealth during lifetime: OK". If one starts with nothing and loses everything when dead, then the accumulation limit is not needed.

Remember: the politicians' families won't have an empire anymore as well. Their whole rapacious incentive will be gone. Please recognize the extreme power of this specific accumulation driver: inheritance and family wealth... more more etc. Where do we know that from?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

sidd

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #1059 on: November 10, 2019, 08:02:17 PM »
Scahill interviews Taylor at the intercept: organized economic disobedience as political weapon

" conversation has been framed around populism, warnings about unruly people we can’t trust. But I think for me, the problem is actually that we’re living in the age of minoritarian politics, minoritarian control."

"the message that wealthy, powerful people want to hear, which is, sorry lowly people, you can’t have nice things."

"we essentially have a system, an electoral system where bribery is legalized in terms of campaign contributions"

"there’s a bigger thing they’re afraid of though because what this means to have universal health care is to decommodify this huge industry, and it’s to connect decommodification with democratization, right? Maybe there are huge areas of social life that should not be not just subjected to the market extremes but actually taken off the market completely, right? And that’s very threatening to the status quo."

"Because once you start decommodifying one area, well, why not others? Let’s take education off the market, right? Let’s take housing off the market. What would it be like to live in a home that you don’t have to pray appreciates in value that’s not actually a speculative asset or someone else’s speculative asset?  ... more of social life should be public, should be decommodified. That’s what democracy entails and that is deeply threatening to a ruling class."

" this reduction of democracy to that: to whether or not you can just get to the voting booth "

"I found young people who are keenly aware of their own status as an economic and social elite, who recognize — they had no delusions — they recognize that the empowerment of the majority of people would mean that they would lose some of their privilege ... they basically said, we don’t want democracy."

"it was convenient for capitalists to speak in terms of democracy, to wrap themselves up in that mantle, right. They don’t need it anymore "

"the best example of that to me is George Washington, the first president, who was this vicious real estate speculator who basically, why did he want the American Revolution? So, he could speculate on stolen indigenous land. So, let’s just not deceive ourselves. "

"What if debtors had been organized, mortgage holders had been organized? So we try to organize people around what type of debt by their specific creditors and say we need to engage in collective bargaining ...$1.6 trillion of student debt is $1.6 trillion of leverage. Let’s start using it."

"since 2015, we’ve helped win over a billion and a half dollars of debt relief. "

"A million people default every year, but they do it individually ... Hey million people who are defaulting, step out of the shadows and become a political force."

https://theintercept.com/2019/11/10/astra-taylor-intercepted-podcast/

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