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Neven

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #200 on: July 12, 2017, 06:26:53 PM »
 :D

Okay, that's enough.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

oren

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #201 on: July 12, 2017, 07:04:18 PM »
When two constructive members reach a non-constructive dialogue, it's probably time to stop.

Sigmetnow

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #202 on: November 14, 2017, 01:46:46 AM »
”As the richest people in America fixate on how to give money to the poorest, the Cherokee program is a case study of whether a basic income is in fact a practical proposal for alleviating economic inequality or just another oversimplified, undercooked Silicon Valley fix to one of the most intractable problems our society faces. Or maybe it’s both.”

FREE MONEY: THE SURPRISING EFFECTS OF A BASIC INCOME SUPPLIED BY GOVERNMENT
Quote
... One fear about basic income is that people will be content living on their subsidies and stop working. But a 2010 analysis of the data, led by Randall Akee, who researches public policy at UCLA's Luskin School of Public Affairs, found no impact on overall labor participation. ...
https://www.wired.com/story/free-money-the-surprising-effects-of-a-basic-income-supplied-by-government/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

sidd

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #203 on: November 14, 2017, 06:56:03 AM »
Did someone mention land depreciation ? In cultivated USA the land is dead. The ecosystem capital is gone. The ecosystem services are gone. In a sane economy those costs would be internalized and show clearly the bankruptcy of agriculture.

I have been from the east coast to the rockies in every season, In every place doing the corn soy thing, the land is dead. East of the Mississippi the topsoil is gone except in bottomlands. West of the Mississippi, the topsoil is denuded seriously, just look at how much higher the graveyards are,  all on knolls, since they were never plowed up and so retained their soil. In Iowa between the arms of the Missouri and the Mississippi, or southern illinois, the richest soils left, walk out to a planted field in spring and pick up a handful or earth.  Nothing lives there, no insects, worms, no nothing. Look at it under a microscope you will see nothing alive. Those lands have been drenched with poison and fertilizer for decades, barren absent monocrop for half the year, but it was not so once upon a time.

Now i look at Amish farms in OH,PA,IN most of them know to keep their land alive. Not all, but most. And they got many kids, need farmland, they are moving to Mexico, not willing to pay the prices in the USA. I know some who hired a guy to drive em as far as Colorado, but no cigar, land is too expensive, so Mexico it was. Some of the first ones that went Mexico way got kidnapped for ransom, until the abductors realised the Amish don't deal in money, offered to pay ransom in grain and potatoes. They also realised that the Amish fed everybody who showed up at their doorstep. So now the Amish  got a modus vivendi with the gangs.

We need a reboot on land practise.

sidd

Sigmetnow

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #204 on: December 13, 2017, 03:10:10 PM »
Changing economics as the oil economy dwindles.

Saudi Arabia to raise energy prices, pay cash to poorer citizens
Quote
RIYADH, Dec 12 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia has approved a new round of energy price hikes and a cash handout system for low- and middle-income citizens to offset the impact of the changes, fresh steps in a year-old austerity programme amid low crude prices. ...
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/saudi-arabia-to-raise-energy-prices-pay-cash-to-poorer-citizens-20171212-00868
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Bob Wallace

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #205 on: December 13, 2017, 06:54:11 PM »
Finland is doing a test of a guaranteed minimum income program.  I think it's mostly going to people who were receiving some sort of assistance already. 

AbruptSLR

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #206 on: January 25, 2018, 09:15:07 PM »
In order to fight climate change, follow the money trail at the WEF:

Title: "‘We have to change capitalism’ to beat climate change, says Blackrock vice-chair"

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/01/24/change-capitalism-says-blackrock-vice-chair/

Extract: "Capitalism must change to avert climate change, according to the vice-chair of the world’s largest asset manager, Blackrock.

Two weeks ago, Blackrock boss Larry Fink shook the corporate world with a letter demanding social responsibility in return for the support of his company, which manages around $6 trillion in assets.

On Wednesday, at the annual World Economic Forum in Davos, vice-chair Philipp Hildebrand expanded on that theme."

&

Title: "Can 'carbon law' help businesses save the climate?"

http://www.dw.com/en/can-carbon-law-help-businesses-save-the-climate/a-42298593

Extract: "How the business sector can step up its action to prevent climate change is emerging as an important thread at the ongoing World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

Businesses taking up climate leadership not only carries forward a trend set in motion by the 2015 Paris Agreement — it is also in line with a scientific framework for how to deliver emissions reductions, known as global carbon law.

To explain carbon law, we need to start with Moore's law, from computer science: It's based on the observation that the number of transistors in a circuit was doubling every two years, fueling innovation in computing.

Carbon law is the equivalent for climate change. It predicts that over a decade, emissions can be halved and the uptake of renewables doubled. Innovation and public-private sector partnerships are supposed to drive this forward — and it seems that to at least some extent, this is happening."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Bob Wallace

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #207 on: January 26, 2018, 07:15:05 AM »
Capitalism, market forces, will solve the electricity generation and most of the transportation GHG problem.

We would be wise to add a catalyst to goose things along...

oren

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #208 on: January 26, 2018, 11:27:07 AM »
Capitalism, market forces, will solve the electricity generation and most of the transportation GHG problem.

We would be wise to add a catalyst to goose things along...
Had it been for market forces alone it would have happened much later. There were government subsidies along the way that helped a lot, and people voting with their wallets spending extra on what they knew were premature but green technologies.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 06:55:18 PM by oren »

GeoffBeacon

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #209 on: January 26, 2018, 02:19:43 PM »
Capitalism - to late to stop it

We have to control the beast of Global Capitalism & take from the rich&affluent to give to the poor. The rich&affluent are screwing up the climate, possibly leading to a sixth mass extinction of life on Earth.

Those that live sustainable lifestyles (basically the poor) should be rewarded and the polluters (the rich&affluent) fined heavily.

That could be a World Wide Carbon Fee and Dividend or anything that took from the rich to give to the poor  and encouraged the poor not to do what we have done.

This would be to force capitalism to solve the problem - if it can be solved.

Il faut cultiver notre cité-jardin
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Sleepy

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #210 on: January 26, 2018, 04:16:00 PM »
Capitalism, market forces, will solve the electricity generation and most of the transportation GHG problem.

We would be wise to add a catalyst to goose things along...
Had it been for market forces alone it would have happened much later. There were government subsidies along the way that helped a lot, and people voting with their wallets spending extra on what tbey knew were premature but green technologies.
Definately so on my horizon as well, oren.

Here, when our electrical utilities realized that people were using inverters with standard electrical plugs, they banned those dispite beeing approved in other countries. I used my inverters illegaly for many years. Later they were forced to allow grid tie inverters to be permanently connected. Plugs are still banned. We still don't have net metering thanks to our legislation, and there's no use for me to sell the surplus.

Northvolt are struggling to finance their battery factory here. They failed to reach their target for 2017, which was 1 billion euros. Now Scania (VW) entered with 10 million euros and that was considered as big news. Northvolt needs to raise 4 billion euros in total. Scania wants to help, but maybe not too much?

Swedish municipalities are subsidising our airports with tax payers money and have been non existent in supporting EVs (building chargers is one) in general, they are waiting for the market.

It's a merry-go-round. Looks like most of todays market forces still consists of incrementalists, skeptics and denialists and the middle class isn't disturbed yet, climate change will only happen to someone else.

Which reminded me of a couple of old interviews from last year, from a Swedish podcast, so I don't think they have been posted in here. Both in English.
The first with Kevin Andersson. The interviewer is a Swedish physicist and meteorologist, Martin Hedberg. Beyond One Degree:
We can succeed, but humanity is about to choose to fail.
http://beyondonedegree.com/en/7-kevin-anderson-we-can-succeed-but-humanity-is-about-to-choose-to-fail/

The second, with Sasja Beslik, one of Sweden’s foremost experts on finance and sustainability.
Sasja Beslik. The Financial Market and Climate Change.
http://beyondonedegree.com/en/4-sasja-beslik-the-financial-market-and-climate-change/
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 04:24:45 PM by Sleepy »
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
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gerontocrat

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #211 on: January 26, 2018, 04:38:09 PM »
Capitalism, market forces, will solve the electricity generation and most of the transportation GHG problem.

We would be wise to add a catalyst to goose things along...
Had it been for market forces alone it would have happened much later. There were government subsidies along the way that helped a lot, and people voting with their wallets spending extra on what tbey knew were premature but green technologies.
Definately so on my horizon as well, oren.

Here, when our electrical utilities realized that people were using inverters with standard electrical plugs, they banned those dispite beeing approved in other countries. I used my inverters illegaly for many years. Later they were forced to allow grid tie inverters to be permanently connected. Plugs are still banned. We still don't have net metering thanks to our legislation, and there's no use for me to sell the surplus.

Northvolt are struggling to finance their battery factory here. They failed to reach their target for 2017, which was 1 billion euros. Now Scania (VW) entered with 10 million euros and that was considered as big news. Northvolt needs to raise 4 billion euros in total. Scania wants to help, but maybe not too much?

Swedish municipalities are subsidising our airports with tax payers money and have been non existent in supporting EVs (building chargers is one) in general, they are waiting for the market.

It's a merry-go-round. Looks like most of todays market forces still consists of incrementalists, skeptics and denialists and the middle class isn't disturbed yet, climate change will only happen to someone else.

Which reminded me of a couple of old interviews from last year, from a Swedish podcast, so I don't think they have been posted in here. Both in English.
The first with Kevin Andersson. The interviewer is a Swedish physicist and meteorologist, Martin Hedberg. Beyond One Degree:
We can succeed, but humanity is about to choose to fail.
http://beyondonedegree.com/en/7-kevin-anderson-we-can-succeed-but-humanity-is-about-to-choose-to-fail/

The second, with Sasja Beslik, one of Sweden’s foremost experts on finance and sustainability.
Sasja Beslik. The Financial Market and Climate Change.
http://beyondonedegree.com/en/4-sasja-beslik-the-financial-market-and-climate-change/
Perhaps Bjorn Lomborg has Scandinavia's rulers fooled?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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Bob Wallace

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #212 on: January 26, 2018, 05:24:00 PM »
Capitalism, market forces, will solve the electricity generation and most of the transportation GHG problem.

We would be wise to add a catalyst to goose things along...
Had it been for market forces alone it would have happened much later. There were government subsidies along the way that helped a lot, and people voting with their wallets spending extra on what tbey knew were premature but green technologies.

Absolutely.  What happened was capitalism at work.  Developing renewable energy had value to enough people that they were willing to pay (subsidies) which created/increased profits for companies developing RE.


ralfy

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #213 on: February 01, 2018, 02:35:24 AM »
Localization as limits to growth kicks in.

Sigmetnow

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #214 on: February 02, 2018, 09:08:56 PM »
“Look y'all want a socialist base building strategy that will give you a mass blue collar working class movement here in the US? Sit down a minute. Ima tell you how to do it.”
https://twitter.com/NeolithicSheep/status/959280028780396545
See below; more at the link.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

ivica

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #215 on: February 07, 2018, 09:56:34 PM »
Its about co-ops for which we have no dedicated thread, co-ops/coops are mentioned in several ASIF threads,
article at https://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/worker-owner-cooperatives-alternatives/

Quote
For Bautista, the cooperative movement is only just beginning to reveal its potential. After nearly a decade of building locally owned-and-operated collaboratives, she says the accumulation of skills, awareness and technical know-how among her clients is paying off. “We are constantly looking for new ways to empower workers, and they are finding lots of inspiration from each other,” she said. “It’s exciting to watch. And we’re hopeful this will just get bigger and bigger.”

This story is part of the New Economies Reporting Project — a collaboration between The Media Consortium and the New Economy Coalition.

Source:  Waging Nonviolence - People-Powered News and Analysis


ivica

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #216 on: February 08, 2018, 12:34:51 AM »
This should add a bit about "what" part of the topic:  India’s Fight to Make Medicine Affordable:

Quote
The ability of this eclectic mix of stakeholders to force down the costs of an important Hepatitis C medicine has been heralded as a victory for those who argue that it is a moral outrage to keep drugs out of the hands of sick people simply because they cannot afford it. Can the model be replicated elsewhere?

More:
"A standard three-month course of treatment can have a sticker price as high as $84,000 in the United States. In Canada, it costs as much as $45,000. And because the drug must be taken in combination with other medications, the price of treatment is often higher."
"Here in Haryana state, however, and its neighboring state, Punjab, governments are now purchasing 12-week courses of the drug, plus its companion drugs, for as low as $80 — and they are providing it to their residents for free."

Source: Undark Truth, Beauty, Science

(That reminds me on: "spend money on poor, sick & education" motto of Jains which needs more attention. later, somewhere.)


solartim27

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #217 on: February 08, 2018, 06:21:10 PM »
I don't have access beyond the paywall.  Anyone think the article is worth reading?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-018-0021-4

Quote
Humanity faces the challenge of how to achieve a high quality of life for over 7 billion people without destabilizing critical planetary processes. Using indicators designed to measure a ‘safe and just’ development space, we quantify the resource use associated with meeting basic human needs, and compare this to downscaled planetary boundaries for over 150 nations. We find that no country meets basic needs for its citizens at a globally sustainable level of resource use. Physical needs such as nutrition, sanitation, access to electricity and the elimination of extreme poverty could likely be met for all people without transgressing planetary boundaries.
FNORD

AbruptSLR

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #218 on: February 08, 2018, 06:54:44 PM »
While I doubt that the shakers and movers at the WEF will reshape capitalism in time to prevent a socio-economic collapse circa 2050-2060; nevertheless, I think that their 2018 theme of 'Creating a Shared Future in a Fractured World' is a step in the right direction.  Without all parties realizing that we all have 'skin in the game' for a shared future, we will continue in Trump's footsteps towards a fractured world of increased mutual suffering:

Title: "Recent global economic history as told through Davos themes"

https://qz.com/1184818/davos-2018-theme-creating-a-shared-future-in-a-fractured-world/

Extract: " After the UK voted to leave the European Union and the US elected Donald Trump as president, Davos went with the hopefully contrarian theme, “Responsive and Responsible Leadership.” This year, the meeting has been given a slightly more realistic update: “Creating a Shared Future in a Fractured World.” By the way, Trump will be there.

If you squint hard enough, the Davos themes form a concise summary of recent global history, as viewed through a certain rarified lens. Here are all of them in chronological order:

•   2003: Building Trust
•   2004: Partnering for Security and Prosperity
•   2005: Taking Responsibility for Tough Choices
•   2006: The Creative Imperative
•   2007: The Shifting Power Equation
•   2008: The Power of Collaborative Innovation
•   2009: Shaping the Post-Crisis World
•   2010: Rethink, Redesign, Rebuild
•   2011: Shared Norms for the New Reality
•   2012: The Great Transformation
•   2013: Resilient Dynamism
•   2014: The Reshaping of the World
•   2015: The New Global Context
•   2016: Mastering the Fourth Industrial Revolution
•   2017: Responsive and Responsible Leadership
•   2018: Creating a Shared Future in a Fractured World"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

ivica

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #219 on: February 09, 2018, 07:14:00 AM »
Should belong to "how" part:
search: The Art of Nonviolence:

https://wagingnonviolence.org/column/the-arts-of-protest/

(reminds me on Jains again, and their message to others: "try to be nonviolent")

Sleepy

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #220 on: February 09, 2018, 08:41:56 AM »
I don't have access beyond the paywall.  Anyone think the article is worth reading?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-018-0021-4

Quote
Humanity faces the challenge of how to achieve a high quality of life for over 7 billion people without destabilizing critical planetary processes. Using indicators designed to measure a ‘safe and just’ development space, we quantify the resource use associated with meeting basic human needs, and compare this to downscaled planetary boundaries for over 150 nations. We find that no country meets basic needs for its citizens at a globally sustainable level of resource use. Physical needs such as nutrition, sanitation, access to electricity and the elimination of extreme poverty could likely be met for all people without transgressing planetary boundaries.
It was accessible through sci-hub but you have a link in this article:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/02/07/583475222/if-we-bring-the-good-life-to-all-will-we-destroy-the-planet
Quoting one section from the article:
Quote
The hope was to find at least a few examples of countries that were simultaneously delivering the good life to their citizens while staying within their per capita boundaries for environmental damage — in other words, using natural resources at a rate that would be sustainable even if every person on the planet matched it.

Unfortunately, "we really didn't find that," says O'Neill.

Instead, says O'Neill, "generally the countries that do well on the social indicators do so by consuming resources at a level that could not be extended to all people on the planet." These include Germany, the Netherlands and Austria. "And the countries that do well on the environmental indicators — in other words, that are consuming resources at a sustainable level — don't do well on the social indicators." Examples include Malawi, Yemen and the Philippines.

There are also five countries that do damage above all seven of the environmental boundaries even as they fail to achieve all 11 social indicators. This includes the United States, which misses the mark when it comes to income equality and employment.

Even though China is not one of those five, it is arguably in even worse shape. It exceeds its per capita limits on five of the seven environmental thresholds yet only delivers on three of the social measures.

Only one country comes even close to delivering the good life in a sustainable way: Vietnam succeeds on six social indicators — including a life expectancy above 65 years and providing sufficient nutrition — while staying within its limit on every environmental threshold except carbon emissions.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
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Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

Sigmetnow

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #221 on: February 10, 2018, 06:51:26 PM »
Should belong to "how" part:
search: The Art of Nonviolence:

https://wagingnonviolence.org/column/the-arts-of-protest/

(reminds me on Jains again, and their message to others: "try to be nonviolent")

Reminds me of the motto of the “marginally famous” Bangor Maine Police Department’s Facebook page:

“Keep your hands to yourself, leave other people’s things alone, and be kind to one another.”

https://www.facebook.com/pg/bangormainepolice/about/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

ivica

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #222 on: February 15, 2018, 12:22:18 AM »
(Fill under "How")

Promoting nonviolence:

   the way of thinking   
   the people who think that way
   the people who live that way

so trivially simple - if you can deal with greed.

ivica

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #223 on: March 09, 2018, 07:46:49 AM »
Community radio vs. corporate giants
------------------------------------

"Back in 2000, grassroots organizations pressured the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for community access to the airwaves. But corporate broadcasters fought to restrict low-power radio, and after a decade of battles the Local Community Radio Act was finally signed into law in 2011"

"By late 2013, more than 2,800 groups had applied for licenses. Licenses have been issued since early 2014, and as of January 2018, 1,978 licenses have been issued,"

https://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/blogs/low-powered-community-radio-powerful-voice

GeoffBeacon

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #224 on: March 09, 2018, 01:08:01 PM »
Solartim27 & sleepy

Reprise.
Quote
That Goats and soda article, If We Bring The Good Life To All, Will We Destroy The Planet? is based on a new study in Nature Sustainability, A good life for all within planetary boundaries by O'Neill et al.

O'Neill et al. say things in a complicated academic way struggling for rigor and precision in an field where none is possible - but who here would disagree with:

Quote
Overall, our findings suggest that the pursuit of universal human development, which is the ambition of the SDGs [Sustainable Development Goals], has the potential to undermine the Earth-system processes upon which development ultimately depends. But this does not need to be the case. A more hopeful scenario would see the SDGs shift the agenda away from growth towards an economic model where the goal is sustainable and equitable human well-being. However, if all people are to lead a good life within planetary boundaries, then the level of resource use associated with meeting basic needs must be dramatically reduced.

SDG 13: Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts references Paris Agreement and many here will worry/know that with this agreement alone we stand limited chance of avoiding climate disaster.

O'Neill et al. use nation states as basic units. However, all states now contain demographic groups in their population, which have unsustainable lifestyles. This gives a clouded picture. A search for sustainable and happy lifestyles, which can be exemplars for sustainable development should look at smaller units like neighbourhoods and villages.

Also, why just look at the present? Are there past examples worth examining?

Design and plan


The key point should be: If there have been no worth-while exemplars, past or present, then design and plan some that are suitable.

Financial incentives for sustainable living

P.S. The question "If not capitalism ...?" is a big question that's beyond me but I see nothing stopping efficient large corporations bringing sustainable living to the market - except that there are few financial incentives for sustainable living and that means no profit for corporations - yet. We need strong government to set the incentives to make capitalism sustainable - and give a basic income to all.  Like a carbon fee with dividend. [My idealistic version.]

On that topic, James Hansen [a small town republican?] has recently posted

Quote
Young Republicans are showing that they will not accept politics as usual, they understand climate change is real, and a substantial number of them advocate exactly the conservative policy that could address the matter successfully: carbon fee with 100% dividend uniformly distributed to the public.

P.P.S. I a member of the Labour Party, supporter of Jeremy Corbyn and admire The Adam Smith Institute.



« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 01:13:52 PM by GeoffBeacon »
Il faut cultiver notre cité-jardin
The Sustainable Plotlands Association

ivica

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #225 on: March 23, 2018, 08:13:20 PM »
Using Podcast Network and avoiding corporate owned media outlets.
How:

"Communities use collaborative podcasts to support multiple contributors podcasting through generally simplified processes, and without having to host their own individual feeds. A community podcast can also allow members of the community (related to the podcast topic) to contribute to the podcast in many different ways."

Here is one new - just starting, "Deconstructed" podcast:
in the first episode The Intercept’s Mehdi Hasan sits down with Bernie Sanders to talk poverty, inequality, media bias, and the 2020 presidential election.

ivica

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #226 on: March 27, 2018, 11:42:51 PM »
‘Beginning of the end’ for secret corporate courts by Clare Speak

"Transparency campaigners are celebrating after the highest court in Europe ruled that shadowy offshore courts allowing multinational corporations to sue governments under little-known trade rules are not legal."

"These courts, known as investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) tribunals, exist outside national or European legal systems. They usually meet in secret, give no right of appeal and, in the majority of cases, rule in favour of the corporations. It might sound like the stuff of dystopian nightmares but they have been around for two decades."

"ISDS is best known as being part of the controversial Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), a planned EU-US agreement that sparked protests on both sides of the Atlantic. The rule is also found in the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA), a similarly controversial deal between the EU and Canada, which has not been fully implemented yet because of disagreements over ISDS."

"The ruling means TTIP is now “dead in the water”, campaigners say, and it’s also hoped to “spell the end of CETA as we know it”.

"“ISDS not only violates EU law, it is also dangerous for democracy, taxpayer money and much needed policies, for example, to combat climate change. Now is the time to stamp out the excessive corporate privileges once and for all,” Pia Eberhardt, CEO of Corporate Europe Observatory, told Big Issue North." (my emphasis)

Read it all:
https://www.bigissuenorth.com/news/2018/03/beginning-end-secret-corporate-courts/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn


SteveMDFP

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #227 on: March 28, 2018, 12:57:03 AM »
Thanks for this, ivica.  This is very, very good news.
I agree with the ruling--secret corporate courts are an abomination, and the single worst thing about recent trade treaties.
If only the US Supreme Court would rule similarly.

Steve

sidd

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #228 on: March 28, 2018, 05:18:53 AM »
I wonder how China and the TTP block outside the USA are going to deal with this. I can just see an investor attempt to sue China ... and I will laff and laff and laff.

sidd

Sigmetnow

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #229 on: April 10, 2018, 06:12:43 PM »
“More restaurants should do this”
    https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/983485754197331969
Image below.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

wili

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #230 on: April 10, 2018, 09:08:06 PM »
We do this in our restaurant...except every meal is free/whatever you can donate.  :)
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

TerryM

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #231 on: April 10, 2018, 11:46:34 PM »
We do this in our restaurant...except every meal is free/whatever you can donate.  :)


Realy? That is awesome.


I hadn't been in Canada long when I went into a Tim Horton's Donut Shop for the first time. I ordered a string of things, only to discover I'd left my wallet at home.
The gal behind the counter insisted that I take the full order with me and asked that I not worry myself about paying. "Things happen"


The food was paid for the following day and she had a ridiculous tip and a permanent customer.


Terry

wili

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #232 on: April 11, 2018, 03:09:43 PM »
Our 'tips' don't generally cover even the basic costs of the ingredients, even though I cull much of it from what the local coop grocery decides is not shelf worthy for free. So I am envious of your local Donut Shop having such a generous benefactor!  :)

But back somewhat on topic...I actually wasn't sure where to put this, but it seems somehow relevant to some of the discussions on this and similar threads:

Quote
...advanced capitalist societies manufacture the social subjects as consumers of mass culture - as they are consumers of Starbucks coffee or MacDonald's hamburgers - which is to say their subjectivities are the creations of a culture industry, receptacles of a massive body of disinformation that do not just entertain and preoccupy them but, in fact, engineer them as passive receptacles of an ideological domination beyond their recognition or critique. They give them a sense of false autonomy of choice.

What today we call "Western Media" is the paramount example of Adorno and Horkheimer's insight, the production of "news" as perfect examples of commodity fetishism

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/media-mass-deception-180409092703608.html
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

ivica

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #233 on: April 17, 2018, 05:52:17 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZRezDH5rLs&feature=youtu.be

"Jimmy Dore fills in while Jesse Ventura is off the grid. Jimmy and Brigida Santos discuss blockchain technologies and how they are disrupting power structures around the world by delivering direct democracy to the people. "

Can Direct Democracy help?


Shared Humanity

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #234 on: April 17, 2018, 09:57:36 PM »
Our 'tips' don't generally cover even the basic costs of the ingredients, even though I cull much of it from what the local coop grocery decides is not shelf worthy for free. So I am envious of your local Donut Shop having such a generous benefactor!  :)

But back somewhat on topic...I actually wasn't sure where to put this, but it seems somehow relevant to some of the discussions on this and similar threads:

Quote
...advanced capitalist societies manufacture the social subjects as consumers of mass culture - as they are consumers of Starbucks coffee or MacDonald's hamburgers - which is to say their subjectivities are the creations of a culture industry, receptacles of a massive body of disinformation that do not just entertain and preoccupy them but, in fact, engineer them as passive receptacles of an ideological domination beyond their recognition or critique. They give them a sense of false autonomy of choice.

What today we call "Western Media" is the paramount example of Adorno and Horkheimer's insight, the production of "news" as perfect examples of commodity fetishism

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/media-mass-deception-180409092703608.html

We need to pierce the veil and recognize we are unwitting participants in a system that is destroying the planet. We then need to act to change the system.

sidd

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #235 on: April 21, 2018, 11:33:53 PM »
Varofakis has a very insightful rereading of the Manifesto, albeit with the advantage of a century and half of subsequent history:

"It would take the collapse of the Soviet Union and the insertion of two billion Chinese and Indian workers into the capitalist labour market for its prediction to be vindicated. Indeed, for capital to globalise fully, the regimes that pledged allegiance to the manifesto had first to be torn asunder. Has history ever procured a more delicious irony?"

" ... society splits between non-working shareholders and non-owner wage-workers. As for the middle class, it is the dinosaur in the room, set for extinction."

“The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.”

"Old classes die out and eventually only two remain standing: the class that owns everything and the class that owns nothing"

" The only thing we can be certain of, according to the manifesto, is that unless capital is socialised we are in for dystopic developments"

" they overlooked the kind of dialectic they loved to analyse: how workers’ states would become increasingly totalitarian in their response to capitalist state aggression, and how, in their response to the fear of communism, these capitalist states would grow increasingly civilised."
Liberated from competition with regimes inspired by the manifesto, globalised capitalism is behaving as if it is determined to create a world best explained by the manifesto."

"Liberated from competition with regimes inspired by the manifesto, globalised capitalism is behaving as if it is determined to create a world best explained by the manifesto."

"Capitalism’s problem is that it is irrational.  Capital’s success at spreading its reach via accumulation for accumulation’s sake is causing human workers to work like machines for a pittance, while the robots are programmed to produce stuff that the workers can no longer afford and the robots do not need. Capital fails to make rational use of the brilliant machines it engenders, condemning whole generations to deprivation, a decrepit environment, underemployment and zero real leisure from the pursuit of employment and general survival. "

"When asked by journalists who or what is the greatest threat to capitalism today, I defy their expectations by answering: capital! "

"the only way of being a communist is to be a libertarian one."

Varoufakis is always worth reading, here especially so. Read the whole thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/20/yanis-varoufakis-marx-crisis-communist-manifesto


sidd



Bob Wallace

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #236 on: April 22, 2018, 12:20:16 AM »
IMH and perhaps poorly informed O socialism has not worked because a portion of the population is lazy.  Without the incentives provided by capitalism some do not work and contribute.  The people who do work resent supplying the lazy.

From there on it's either a system supported by force or a system that collapses.

Looking forward to when essentially all work, at least all essential work, is done by machines then socialism might well be the best solution.  Let the population collectively own the capital, the means of production, and distribute the products evenly to everyone.

Sigmetnow

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #237 on: April 23, 2018, 06:49:25 PM »
Bob wrote: 
Quote
The people who do work resent supplying the lazy.

Also, the people who do work but hate their jobs are more likely to produce an inferior product or service, making other people miserable.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #238 on: April 24, 2018, 07:57:21 PM »
Robert Reich, former U.S. Secretary of Labor, presents a short flip-chart review of Universal Basic Income and why it’s needed.

https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/videos/1936522653026988/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #239 on: April 24, 2018, 11:37:52 PM »
Robert Reich, former U.S. Secretary of Labor, presents a short flip-chart review of Universal Basic Income and why it’s needed.

https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/videos/1936522653026988/


Sig
Those of us who don't do facebook can only wonder about what he presented. :(
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #240 on: April 25, 2018, 12:51:07 AM »
Robert Reich, former U.S. Secretary of Labor, presents a short flip-chart review of Universal Basic Income and why it’s needed.

https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/videos/1936522653026988/


Sig
Those of us who don't do facebook can only wonder about what he presented. :(
Terry

Found it on YouTube!

People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

gerontocrat

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #241 on: April 25, 2018, 12:53:31 AM »
Robert Reich, former U.S. Secretary of Labor, presents a short flip-chart review of Universal Basic Income and why it’s needed.

https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/videos/1936522653026988/


Sig
Those of us who don't do facebook can only wonder about what he presented. :(
Terry
Click on the link ad you can listen to him (but not see him) without signing into Facebook
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

TerryM

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #242 on: April 25, 2018, 01:16:11 AM »
Thanks to both of you ;)
Terry


edit:
Watched Reich, then a rather right wing rebuttal.


Universal Basic Income, as I see it, is a modification designed to extend the shelf life of Business As Usual in capitalist societies.
I don't know what the future holds but I am convinced that BAU isn't sustainable today or looking forward.


UBI provides a broad base of customers to sustain BAU well beyond it's expiration date. Let's consider some other direction.
Terry
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 01:53:58 AM by TerryM »

AbruptSLR

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #243 on: April 25, 2018, 01:47:41 AM »
Finland's two year experiment in basic income could not overcome political barriers to continue:

Title: "Finland's basic income trial falls flat"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43866700

Extract: "The Finnish government has decided not to expand a limited trial in paying people a basic income, which has drawn much international interest.

The Finnish government has decided not to expand a limited trial in paying people a basic income, which has drawn much international interest."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Sleepy

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #244 on: May 06, 2018, 08:04:09 AM »
From the Swedish Climate Parliament this weekend.
http://klimatriksdagen.se/om/?sprak=eng
Adding Anders Wijkman from yesterday, unfortunately in Swedish but there are at least three members here and this video only had three views, so that might double now. ;)
In short, we are still incrementalists and in deep need of a real transformation.
Part1:


Part2:


You can also watch the second clip here with Anders Wiljkman if you wish (in English):
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1021.msg151524.html#msg151524

About the new book "Come On! Capitalism, Short-termism, Population and the Destruction of the Planet", a short summary here as well:
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

sidd

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #245 on: May 11, 2018, 07:59:21 PM »
A look back at market socialism:

Here a proposal that will make capitalists scream ...

"Although Brus and Łaski advanced these ideas as a path for reforming existing socialist economies, it is possible to imagine a transformation to such a system from the starting point of a modern capitalist economy. Suppose that a democratically constituted Common Fund were to carry out the compulsory purchase of all financial assets owned by households: stocks and bonds, but also mutual funds and other wealth instruments."

"the commanding heights of the economy would no longer constitute an archipelago of private empires ruled by Bezoses, Zuckerbergs, Kochs, or Trumps. They would instead be, to coin a phrase, “ours, not to slave in, but to master and to own."

https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/the-forgotten-vision-of-market-socialism

sidd


Bob Wallace

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #246 on: May 11, 2018, 08:07:10 PM »
Quote
Suppose that a democratically constituted Common Fund were to carry out the compulsory purchase of all financial assets owned by households: stocks and bonds, but also mutual funds and other wealth instruments."

We might need a version of that once labor is no longer of value.  Unless people can trade their time/labor for products then the system breaks down.  The companies no longer have customers.

SteveMDFP

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #247 on: May 11, 2018, 08:32:18 PM »
Quote
Suppose that a democratically constituted Common Fund were to carry out the compulsory purchase of all financial assets owned by households: stocks and bonds, but also mutual funds and other wealth instruments."

We might need a version of that once labor is no longer of value.  Unless people can trade their time/labor for products then the system breaks down.  The companies no longer have customers.

Of course, if the assets are *purchased* then the wealthy still have all their wealth.  And thus, power and control.  *Seizing* the assets would require a civil war, which the seizers would lose, since money can easily buy guns and armies.

An entirely different plan is needed, one that makes conventional money irrelevant.

Bob Wallace

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #248 on: May 11, 2018, 08:52:38 PM »
If citizens buy up the 'means' that will leave previous owners with a lot of wealth.  They will be free to spend lots on art and solid gold toilets but they won't be able to repurchase 'means'.

By the third generation all that wealth will be pissed away.

The fourth generation can live on their 'fair share' like everyone else.

SteveMDFP

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Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #249 on: May 11, 2018, 09:15:36 PM »
If citizens buy up the 'means' that will leave previous owners with a lot of wealth.  They will be free to spend lots on art and solid gold toilets but they won't be able to repurchase 'means'.

By the third generation all that wealth will be pissed away.

The fourth generation can live on their 'fair share' like everyone else.

Well yes, but. . .

"The New York Stock Exchange is still by far the most important equity market in the world. With a market cap of about $21 trillion, the NYSE about three times larger than the NASDAQ, and the two US exchanges together have a larger market cap than the next ten exchanges combined."

That's about 5 times the total annual GDP Federal budget of the US.  And we haven't yet started talking about buying all the privately-held companies, bonds, real estate, precious metals, etc.