Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?  (Read 118418 times)

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 15890
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 233
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #650 on: August 13, 2018, 01:39:57 AM »
"Do we not, as parents, often give our children pets or other valuable possessions to teach them basic lessons of life and stewardship?"

That sentence tells you all about the author right there.

sidd

Of course, Bloomberg opinions are very likely to espouse conspicuous consumption — it’s why they exist.  But I was heartened by the examples of where we are moving away from accumulating physical things. 

I recall the story of a family preparing to evacuate their home due to wildfire.  The teenager said, “I’m ready.  I have my phone.  Everything I need is in the cloud.”
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #651 on: August 20, 2018, 08:07:17 AM »
Banksy on Capitalism, image attached.

sidd

Eco-Author

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 105
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #652 on: August 20, 2018, 10:43:50 AM »
One can argue that things are SO Bad and the time so short that nothing short of a streamlined militaristic structure will do... Think of it in reverse... If there was only one survival spaceship or Mars outpost to get away to, would we really be arguing about what BRAND of moon buggy to buy?... How to 'OUTCLASS' the jones' with a more showy hut??  Probably far better examples of how we'd really seek a very streamlined system when everything is at stake but the only choice these days is what works best, how to make it better and be thankful we have it when we need it... Only the general concept of the military or NASA or the command on a maritime ship embodies the degree of efficiency needed.  One could ask how do people at the Antarctic outpost decide what to do... isn't it also a structured streamlined system?  You get the same dam bed everyone else has, do your critical work and be happy for what time you have to share with each other. PERIOD... Oh and btw... healthcare and education are also free in the military so its also a system with more benefits than silly/meaninglyess choices!
Self-sufficiency and Durability to disasters are the absolute keys to nearly any disaster you can think of such as War, economic collapse, pandemics, Global warming, quakes, volcanoes, Hurricanes... all of which put solar farms etc. and power grids at risk!

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5423
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 526
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #653 on: August 20, 2018, 11:38:24 AM »

sidd
That may win the Chart of the Decade award!!!
Terry

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 15890
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 233
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #654 on: September 09, 2018, 03:40:56 PM »
Redistribution of wealth.

Giving Pledge signed by Bill Gates, Elon Musk may reach $600 billion
Quote
• At least 175 people committed to donating a majority of their fortunes through the Giving Pledge, which could be worth as much as $600 billion by 2022, according to a Wealth-X report.
• The pledge has drawn some criticism because it allows donors to name their own charities in their wills.
• Education was the top philanthropic cause in 2017, with about 62% of billionaires donating at least part of their fortunes to higher education funding, scholarships and more....
https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-elon-musk-giving-pledge-may-reach-600-billion-2018-7
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #655 on: September 16, 2018, 08:06:25 PM »
Taibbi at Rolling Stone on lessons unlearned from the crisis of a decade ago:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/financial-crisis-ten-year-anniversary-723798/

sidd

GoSouthYoungins

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1262
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 83
  • Likes Given: 109
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #656 on: September 16, 2018, 08:36:18 PM »
nothing wrong with capitalism. we just have to make sure we are accounting for externalities like pollution. capitalism is just the absence of restrictions by authorities. free individuals interacting as they choose is called capitalism. having a free monetary system would be crucial as well.
big time oops

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 771
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 54
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #657 on: September 19, 2018, 09:06:29 PM »
Capitalism is a concept, and like for all concept, you have the therory, and the way it is implemented. I would say that most important flaws are :
  • when you start to accumulate money, it gives you a power that makes it possible for you to sale whaterver you want, saying that it is whatever the customer think he needs, a power that even has an impact on democracy.
  • it requires growth because everybody wants more money, but prices can't be increased so easily, so efficiency gains are required, this is mainly achieved through growth. Most of the time, when somebody grows, there is somebody else loosing market share
  • mens are not just a brain, but they have feelings, so they don't buy products just with a rational thinking and markets law don't apply so well as expected (this is valid for trendy product that cost too much, for having your friends as supplier/customer, for not checking regularely what other suppliers offer, for corruption...)
But I guess that this is valid for most economical systems.


johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1291
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 86
  • Likes Given: 43
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #659 on: September 20, 2018, 09:27:44 PM »
This could go in must reads or money, taking back the power to create money into public control, for the common good.
"Central bankers are now aggressively playing the stock market. To say they are buying up the planet may be an exaggeration, but they could. They can create money at will, and they have declared their “independence” from government. They have become rogue players in a game of their own. "
Ellen Brown, https://ellenbrown.com/2018/09/14/central-banks-have-gone-rogue-putting-us-all-at-risk/

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #660 on: September 27, 2018, 12:42:24 AM »
Elliott at the Guardian on perils of capitalist globalization: sees the re-emergence of state managed capitalism:

"Now the most powerful man on the planet is saying something different: that the only way to remedy the economic and social ills caused by globalisation is through the nation state ... he’s not a lone voice."

"China – has never given up on the nation state."

"It was the way most western countries operated in the decades after the second world war ... "

"while the nation state is far from perfect, it is where an alternative to the current failed model will inevitably begin. Increasingly, voters are looking to the one form of government where they do have a say to provide economic security. And if the mainstream parties are not prepared to offer what these voters want – a decently paid job, properly funded public services and controls on immigration – then they will look elsewhere for parties or movements that will."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/26/donald-trump-globalisation-nation-state

sidd

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5423
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 526
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #661 on: September 27, 2018, 04:31:18 AM »
The decades following WWII were great years in North America. A high school education and a union job bought a home in the 'burbs, a new car every two years, and a stay home mom to raise Bobbie and Betty.


The American Dream writ large for white, straight, males who didn't think it would ever end. Didn't think about South East Asia, didn't think about lily white suburbs, didn't think about much at all.
They never questioned why the Koreans needed to be separated, or why the Vietnamese cost us the gold standard.
Jack, then Martin and Bobby were murdered - but there was never a coup - We knew that because those still in power told us so. Why would they lie?
Crazy lone gunmen. Crazy!


Kids in the street with long hair smoked dope, popped pills, screwed everything that moved, and accused the Powers that Be of immorality. If they'd been accustomed to thinking, they might have commented on the hypocrisy. Instead they sent them to Vietnam or jail. Jail was safer, but the dope was better in Vietnam.


A washed up movie star utilized his acting experience, and the perfidy of his "followers" to win a presidential election. The short age of the semi literate American Dreamer crashed to an end.
Terry

Sleepy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1202
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 126
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #662 on: September 27, 2018, 09:25:34 AM »
We’re getting there, aren’t we? We’re making the transition towards an all-electric future. We can now leave fossil fuels in the ground and thwart climate breakdown. Or so you might imagine, if you follow the technology news.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/26/economic-growth-fossil-fuels-habit-oil-industry
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 771
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 54
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #663 on: September 27, 2018, 11:27:37 PM »
My wife has been reading a lot about "voluntary simplicity" lately, there are many good ideas around that concept. I wonder if sometimes people are not confused between self sufficiency through simplicity and through solar panels (+ diesel generator for the cloudy days).

Bruce Steele

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1474
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 139
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #664 on: September 28, 2018, 12:11:31 AM »
etienne, I think of solar as part of an exit from fossil fuels. Even with the best of intentions it is difficult to live both a simple life and live within any current civilization. Fresh water, irrigation water and sanitation are all energy drains we are totally dependent upon , civilization wise.  Computer use ,food , recreation and transportation can be simplified from and individual standpoint but there are limits to what cities can do ... to collectively simplify. I guess I am trying yo say there is plenty of opportunities to simplify but something like hard limits to simplify civilization. Solar can ,I believe ,power some of those necessities but we collectively need to walk back our expectations for how much it can power.
IMO
 

Sleepy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1202
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 126
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #665 on: September 28, 2018, 12:51:07 PM »
Voluntary simplicity got me thinking about Joan Pick, again. Posted another link about her in the Hyperloop thread (weird huh) a while back, note the symbol on her cap...
https://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/news/croydon-news/croydon-running-lady-died-following-531606
Quote
"We know we're using too much energy," she said. "We have to live within the planet's means.

"There is no alternative to a fundamental change in the way we live."

Miss Pick's decision to boycott planes, trains and automobiles came as a scientist in 1973 while working for a Croydon firm of consultants advising the energy industry.

She decided the world's mass-consumption approach to energy was wrong and began setting an example for everyone to follow.

Since then she only travelled as far as her legs would take her, which meant she had gone decades without a holiday.

"I'm a minimal energy user," she explained. "I don't expect anybody else to be as resolute as me, but I have to experiment with the energy-efficient lifestyle to prove it's survivable."

The Morris Minor Millennium she drove had been mothballed in her garage since 1972.

Her pact with herself meant that, in the 16 years before 2008, she had been no further than Tower Bridge to the north, Tolworth to the west, Reigate and Godstone to the south or Sidcup to the east.

"It's the easiest, cheapest method of keeping fit," she said, explaining why she ran everywhere.

"People shout at me 'keep on running'.

"I'm usually stopped and people ask me if I'm the lady who runs everywhere and they ask me why I'm doing it, so I give them a little seminar.

"They say I'm an inspiration but they're still in their cars."
Yeah, We are.  :-[
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 771
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 54
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #666 on: September 28, 2018, 06:31:51 PM »
etienne, I think of solar as part of an exit from fossil fuels. Even with the best of intentions it is difficult to live both a simple life and live within any current civilization. Fresh water, irrigation water and sanitation are all energy drains we are totally dependent upon , civilization wise.  Computer use ,food , recreation and transportation can be simplified from and individual standpoint but there are limits to what cities can do ... to collectively simplify. I guess I am trying yo say there is plenty of opportunities to simplify but something like hard limits to simplify civilization. Solar can ,I believe ,power some of those necessities but we collectively need to walk back our expectations for how much it can power.
IMO

I agree, but there are people who live with all the modern comfort, 100% renewable, and I don't believe that this is the way to go. Somehow when reading about voluntary simplicity, I found similar patterns, but which clearly cover a different context.
Voluntary simplicity, as far as I understood, doesn't mean refusing technology, but mainly reducing needs in order have more time and freedom. Reducing your debts and needs are things that gives you the most freedom, I have been during almost 9 years working part time without any debt, this was a great time (I'm still working part time but bought another house). Just reducing your carbon footprint doesn't bring any freedom, it just provides a good feeling.

Sleepy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1202
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 126
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #667 on: September 28, 2018, 08:52:26 PM »
but there are people who live with all the modern comfort, 100% renewable
Not if you account for how their "100% renewable" lifestyle was built, but that's not the real issue either. The social cost of carbon and sustainability on one planet, is.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

Sleepy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1202
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 126
  • Likes Given: 0
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #669 on: October 02, 2018, 10:31:34 PM »
Beam at wsws has an analysis of Tooze's book about the 2008 crisis, damns with faint praise:

"[Tooze] makes an important analysis of the operations of the global financial system"

but

"as a liberal, whose outlook does not go beyond the framework of the capitalist order, he regards the free market and the profit system as the only possible form of society"

"the incessant mantra of the spokespeople of the financial industry had been free markets and light touch regulation, what they were now demanding was the mobilization of all the resources of the state to save society’s financial infrastructure" [Tooze]

"contrary to the assumption of 2012–2013, the crisis was not in fact over. What we face now is not repetition but mutation and metastasis … the financial and economic crisis of 2007–2012 morphed between 2013 and 2017 into a comprehensive and geopolitical crisis of the post-cold war order." [Tooze]

" when another financial crisis erupts ... it will take place in conditions where geopolitical tensions and conflicts are far more intense"

"Though it is hardly a secret that we inhabit a world dominated by business oligopolies, during the crisis and its aftermath this reality and its implications for the priority of government stood nakedly exposed. It is an unpalatable and explosive truth that democratic politics on both sides of the Atlantic has choked on." [Tooze]

"elections cannot be allowed to change economic policy." [Schauble]

"the future of America’s dominance as the financial centre of the world" [Schumer re Glass-Steagall repeal]

"the questions that we have asked about 1914 ... their analogues are also the questions we ask about 2008 and its aftermath" [Tooze]

Beam replies with Trotsky:

"The War of 1914 is the most colossal breakdown in history of an economic system destroyed by its own inherent contradictions."

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/22/tooz-s22.html

sidd

oren

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4532
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 909
  • Likes Given: 1305
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #670 on: October 02, 2018, 11:40:18 PM »
The 2008 crisis never really ended. It was all loaded into central banks balance sheets who bailed out the banks, large corporations and the wealthy and monetized the national debt.

zizek

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 418
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 34
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #671 on: October 10, 2018, 12:02:11 AM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-09/security-that-triggered-a-recession-reworked-to-green-the-earth?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&utm_content=business&utm_source=twitter&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business


What an excellent pathway. I'm excited that in a couple decades I'll be reading about the misappropriation and abuse of climate change securities. billions of dollars once again going into the pockets of wall street.  The good news is that the situation will be dire enough that the bankers will actually be punished, but not from the government.

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #672 on: October 10, 2018, 07:29:04 AM »
Neven in another thread

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1974.msg176325.html#msg176325

which i shall parafrase a little:

"But if we don't break the vicious cycle of misery for wealth and power, everything is meaningless and a waste of time."

Gluttony for food or sensual pleasure is excoriated, but gluttony for wealth and power is revered in this strange and terrible world view. Here is Hamilton Nolan echoing Hunter Thompson on a conference for the ubermensch in Vegas:

"Rich people go to Vegas to spend money. Really rich people go to Vegas to learn how to make money."

"where the hedge fund industry gathers to talk about money and politics, all while voraciously sucking its own dick. If you have ever wondered whether there really is a cabal of elites plotting in private to rule the world, wonder no more. Here they are. "

" younger hedge fund worker ants were assigned to sit at coffee tables and pitch their ideas to potential investors, like an awful version of speed dating in which the only thing you could discuss is “structured credit.” All of the younger men looked like Jared Kushner, and all the younger women looked like Ivanka Trump might look if she had to work 14-hour days"

"Just steps away was the official SALT Conference/ BDO Shoe Shine area, where you could gaze at that Mclaren and browse Bloomberg on your phone without making eye contact with the two women and one black man who were there shining shoes. "

"Television is for poor people. With the average net worth in this building, the television shows come to them. "

"There is good reason to be suspicious of the Democrats and other allegedly righteous types who appear at a hedge fund conference. "

"But anyone can understand these people if you can grasp one thing: When the money gets big enough, finance and economics and politics are all the same thing. They are ways to measure risk. When you run five or ten or a hundred billion dollars, your overriding concern in life is that pile of money—growing it, yes, but, more fundamentally, preserving it. Geopolitics therefore become just another business risk to be measured alongside interest rates and consumer trends, and judged based on the threat it poses to your money. Climate change? A risk. War in North Korea? A risk. Donald Trump’s insanity? A risk. What normal people think of in moral or ideological terms, those who control all the world’s wealth think of simply in terms of risk. Almost anything can be tolerated, if it allows them to make more money with less risk. This is the logic of capitalism. "

"you find a governing philosophy that cares nothing for humanity. "

“The rich people in this room—you don’t wanna live in a barbed wire enclosure in your McMansion like they do in Latin America. So we gotta fix this problem.”

"What they cannot stand to give up is power. "

"What they are not capable of is admitting that in order for the public as a whole to win, the hedge fund class may have to sacrifice more than just the checks they write at the annual Hamptons charity balls. They may have to sacrifice power. That, I’m afraid, is unthinkable. To be very rich is to have the luxury of constructing a plausible theory of morality that allows you to hold on to everything you have."

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/hell-is-empty-and-all-the-hedge-fund-managers-are-at-th-1795429824

sidd

etienne

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 771
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 54
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #673 on: October 10, 2018, 07:31:02 AM »
ROFL

The problem is the solution: Politically impossible? Change the political structure. Change to sustainable governance. Can’t be done? Too bad. You have no choice.

Choose: sustainability or ELE/collapse. And please do note Mollison’s words:
While the problems are increasingly complex, the solutions remain embarrassingly simple.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/01/unforced-variations-jan-2013/comment-page-4/#comment-314611
There is a joke that says that if housing is too expensive in your area, you should ask the governement to increase profit taxes applied on private companies. Easy solutions are often what political extreems suggest.

Sleepy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1202
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 126
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #674 on: October 11, 2018, 11:21:05 AM »
A snippet from this interview with George Monbiot from last year:
https://youtu.be/13FRO2hNt70?t=1

Edit; also adding his own explanation from yesterday:
4 reasons for using climate breakdown, not climate change:
1. It better conveys the extent of the problem
2. People don't say "So what? The climate's always breaking down"
3. It makes an implicit connection with the impact on our minds
4. It suggests that we can fix it.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 11:32:04 AM by Sleepy »
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #675 on: October 12, 2018, 06:55:29 AM »
The Finance Curse: How the City of London screws the nation and the world:

"once a financial sector grows above an optimal size and beyond its useful roles, it begins to harm the country that hosts it"

"City of London has inflicted a cumulative £4.5tn hit on the British economy from 1995-2015. That is worth around two-and-a-half years’ economic output, "

"Managers often found that the best way to maximise the owners’ wealth was not to make better widgets and sprockets or to find new cures for malaria, but to indulge in the sugar rush of financial engineering, to tease out more profits from businesses that are already doing well. Social purpose be damned. As all this happened, inequality rose, financial crises became more common and economic growth fell "

"Our open arms to the world’s dirty money is corrupting our politics, and it is puffing up our housing markets, penalising the young, the poor and the weak. It is all deepening the finance curse."

Article at :

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/oct/05/the-finance-curse-how-the-outsized-power-of-the-city-of-london-makes-britain-poorer

paper at:

http://speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/SPERI-The-UKs-Finance-Curse-Costs-and-Processes.pdf

The paper has numbers on corresponding costs to the USA:

"The data reports a much more pronounced effect than the earlier application of this
method to the United States (Epstein and Montecino, 2016), which identified costs
of $22,300 billion between 1990 and 2023, or slightly more than one year’s worth of
2018 US GDP."

sidd

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 15890
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 233
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #676 on: October 21, 2018, 06:00:00 PM »
Here’s a fun game.

Crypts Diggin’ (@KrisLigman) 10/19/18, 7:59 PM
Hey I just published my new game, You Are Jeff Bezos. It is a game where you are Jeff Bezos and your only goal is to spend all his f**king money
https://twitter.com/krisligman/status/1053435599581933568

You Are Jeff Bezos by Kris Ligman
https://direkris.itch.io/you-are-jeff-bezos
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #677 on: October 29, 2018, 04:31:32 AM »
When the return on investment is so huge, how can we control markets in politicians ?

"firms lobbying for this provision have a return in excess of $220 for every $1 spent on lobbying, or 22,000%"

Even the mob doesn't get that kinda vigorish.

open access.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1375082

sidd

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 15890
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 233
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #678 on: October 30, 2018, 03:16:13 PM »
Things can change:

Why NYU is making its medical school tuition-free
NYU announced in August it would be covering tuition for all of its medical students
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-nyu-is-making-its-medical-school-tuition-free-2018-10-30
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #679 on: November 01, 2018, 07:39:04 AM »
This strikes me as a seriously bad idea: Fed to loosen rules on banks under 700B US$ assets:

I remember the savings and loan thing, when precisely these smaller banks went hog wild. Black put almost a thousand bankers in jail back then, in the day when bankers actually went to jail.

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/414105-fed-releases-plan-to-loosen-rules-for-major-us-banks

sidd

Red

  • Guest
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #680 on: November 04, 2018, 12:29:55 PM »
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/11/03/a-sound-ecological-policy-cannot-be-achieved-within-a-capitalist-framework/
We share this planet; we do not own it.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HELP THE PLANET TODAY?
Victor Wallis: It was not widely covered in the corporate media, but there was very good coverage on the independent Democracy Now! program, whose host, Amy Goodman, spent a week in and around Bonn during the recent international conference, and visited some of the occupiers in their tree-houses. Singer/songwriter David Rovics has just now posted a tribute, in narrative and song, to the forest-protectors and to the journalist Steffen Meyn who died tragically while attempting to cover their story.

CS: How do you characterize the struggle? Are there decisive similarities with, for example, the battles against oil pipelines in North America?

VW: It is a classic case of confrontation between a big corporation and people trying to save a priceless ecosystem. There is a definite parallel with the clashes in North America, including especially the more recent battle over the Dakota Access Pipeline, in which government forces intervened decisively on the side of the corporation.

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #681 on: November 06, 2018, 08:10:33 AM »
Capitalism in action: markets in information about you. But, unfortunately, you cant participate, except as product. The Koch brothers are buying and selling.

https://www.salon.com/2018/11/05/koch-brothers-are-watching-you-and-new-documents-expose-how-much-they-know/

sidd



AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17693
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 884
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #682 on: November 11, 2018, 07:59:53 PM »
The Finance Curse: How the City of London screws the nation and the world:
….

Interesting information about the role of Britain and the City of London in international finance:

Title: "The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire (Documentary)"



Extract: "At the demise of empire, City of London financial interests created a web of secrecy jurisdictions that captured wealth from across the globe and hid it in a web of offshore islands. Today, up to half of global offshore wealth is hidden in British jurisdictions and Britain and its dependencies are the largest global players in the world of international finance."

See also:

Title: "Lord Mayor of London"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Mayor_of_London

Extract: "The office of Mayor was instituted in 1189, the first holder of the office being Henry Fitz-Ailwin de Londonestone. The Mayor of the City of London has been elected by the City, rather than appointed by the Sovereign, ever since a Royal Charter providing for a Mayor was issued by King John in 1215. The title "Lord Mayor" came to be used after 1354, when it was granted to Thomas Legge (then serving his second of two terms) by King Edward III."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5423
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 526
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #683 on: November 12, 2018, 06:25:25 AM »
Capitalism in action: markets in information about you. But, unfortunately, you cant participate, except as product. The Koch brothers are buying and selling.

https://www.salon.com/2018/11/05/koch-brothers-are-watching-you-and-new-documents-expose-how-much-they-know/

sidd
sidd
Your link illustrates the problems that I'm seeing integrating democracy with the computer age.


The Koch Brothers aren't the only ones possessing this technology, Cambridge Analytica and a thousand clones we never heard of have rendered the whole concept of participatory democracy as dated as piloting a Stanley Steamer on the autobahn.


We've discussed transitioning to a post capitalist society. Perhaps it's time to discuss transitioning to a post democratic society?
Terry


sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #684 on: November 12, 2018, 06:51:46 AM »
Re: "integrating democracy with the computer age. "

Wait, what ? Democracy was long ago defined as the rule of the mob, and the net is a good example. As usual, the only thing that changes is who pays the demagogues. And that, not much.

Re:"aren't the only ones possessing this technology"

Larry Ellison said a long time ago that privacy was over, get over it. That was true then and becomes truer by the day. I am aware of at least two dozen large commercial data providers  who provide integrated data dumps on any individual you care to name dead or alive, worldwide, given rudimentary initial data. Not to speak of the state level databases, or criminal actors. All are accessible for the right price. Why do you think Google has a China plan ? That data is irresistible.

One has to jump thru so many hoops to maintain any level of privacy, it's just ridiculous. I am fortunate in that i am quite familiar with the internet and know the many, many steps involved. But Joe Blow on the street only has a slight understanding of the many ways his behaviour is sliced and diced and bought and sold, and is too busy surviving to care.

Re: "post capitalist, post democratic society"

How about "post information society ?" Get off the damn net. Talk to your neighbours forachange.

sidd



vox_mundi

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 723
  • Likes Given: 114
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #685 on: November 26, 2018, 09:43:55 PM »
The Tragedy of the Commons -- Minus the Tragedy
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-11/osu-tto112118.php

People Can Sustainably Share Resources, Under Some Conditions.

Sometimes, there is no "tragedy" in the tragedy of the commons, according to a new analysis that challenges a widely accepted theory.


Scientists have long believed that when there is open access to a shared resource, people will inevitably overuse it, leading to ruin for everyone - an idea known as the "tragedy of the commons."



But in an analysis of eight case studies from around the world - from foragers in Australia to mangrove fishers in Ecuador - researchers found that people can successfully share and sustainably use resources, under certain conditions.
Quote
... "We've been blinded by the theoretical models. Using a new approach has helped us see from a different perspective."
The paper was published today (11-26-18) in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

In the PNAS paper, Moritz and his colleagues compared the cases they knew, which have been studied ethnographically for decades and for which they had long-term social and ecological data.

They found that the successful case studies worked as complex adaptive systems, where interactions between social and ecological processes lead to sustainable outcomes.

Successful systems were self-organizing, resulting in efficient, equitable and sustainable resource use.


"There is no central decision making or collective decision making about resource use. Individual users decide when and where to move or harvest resources. The system self-organizes so that the distribution of resources matches the distribution of the users," Moritz said.

The researchers found that to avoid the tragedy of the commons, people have to use the environmental resources appropriately. In Cameroon, that means pastoralists move their cattle in response to seasonal rains that bring the grasses on which their animals feed.

"The inappropriate way to use the resources would be to put up a fence and keep the animals there throughout the year, even during periods when there is no rain and the grass isn't growing," Moritz said.

That's why freedom of movement is one of the key conditions necessary to successfully share resources. Other necessary conditions include low population densities, low market value of the resources, variability in resource distribution and an ethos of sharing.

Mark Moritz el al., "Emergent sustainability in open property regimes," PNAS (2018).



« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 09:59:11 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2599
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 171
  • Likes Given: 305
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #686 on: November 26, 2018, 10:23:23 PM »
Thanks, as always, for this, vox. There have been various challenges to the most simplistic interpretations of the Tragedy of the Commons. It is a very abstract model, assuming humans are each isolated greed machines. It ignored many glaringly obvious historical counter examples, including the actual commons that are in the title of the theory.

Professor Elinor Ostrom devoted much of her career to investigating current examples of what conditions are most and least likely to bring about a Tragedy of Commons type of negative result. Good to hear that others are continuing this kind of important work.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 15890
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 233
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #687 on: December 01, 2018, 08:00:57 PM »
Robert Reich:

“Elizabeth Warren gave one of the most important foreign-policy speeches in recent memory yesterday. It wasn't just a rebuke of Trump and the Republicans but also of the  Democratic Party over the last decades, especially the so-called “Washington consensus” about the wonders of free-market capitalism. Here’s the critical paragraph:

"Washington had it all figured out. And this confidence spilled over into more than trade deals. Champions of cutthroat capitalism pushed former Soviet states to privatize as quickly as possible, despite the risk of corruption. They looked the other way as China manipulated its currency to advance its own interests and undercut work done here in America. Washington technocrats backed austerity, deregulation, and privatization around the world. As one crisis after another hit, the economic security of working people around the globe was destroyed, reducing public faith in both capitalism and democracy. Policymakers promised that open markets would lead to open societies. Wow. Did Washington get that one wrong. Efforts to bring capitalism to the global stage unwittingly helped create the conditions for anti-democratic countries to rise up and lash out. Russia has become belligerent and resurgent. China has weaponized its economy without loosening its domestic political constraints. And over time, in country after country, faith in both capitalism and democracy has eroded. A program once aimed at promoting the forces of freedom ended up empowering the opposite."

Warren gets it.”

Elizabeth Warren Just Took a Crucial Stand for Democracy and Enlightened Internationalism
https://www.thenation.com/article/elizabeth-warren-american-university-speech/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

ASILurker

  • Guest
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #688 on: December 04, 2018, 03:27:34 PM »
Connecting the Peace and Climate Dots 
The Sunrise CLIMATE Movement

Let’s face a second crucial fact: whether as separate issues–or as properly connected–our elites (and the major parties and corporate media who reflect their agendas) don’t give a flying frack about peace or climate. This fact is clearly illustrated by their deafening silence about the twin apocalyptic threats of nuclear war and climate Armageddon throughout the midterm election campaigns. A silence which Noam Chomsky rightly brands “moral depravity.”

When elites (and their political and media lackeys) wish to bar all policy action on an issue, they simply shroud the issue in silence. And blather endlessly about distractions to crowd the far more serious (but taboo) issue out of media space. That the peace and climate issues have been given the silence-and-distraction treatment is compelling evidence they are taboo issues our elites don’t want discussed, much less acted on.

What I hope I’ve established so far is that peace and climate are tightly interconnected life-or-death moral issues, both subject to political and media conspiracies of silence and distraction, that our ruling elites have overwhelming vested interests–contrary to humanity’s interests–in not acting upon. What follows is that peace and climate activists have an overwhelming vested interest in joining forces (and making a huge public stink) on these tightly linked life-or-death issues, now tabooed from mainstream political discourse.

As the real adults in the room, peace and climate activists must play regent to the willful, destructive, “child king” of our ruling elites, overruling their edict that everyone must overlook their unspeakably reckless acts of juvenile vandalism. While the planet literally burns.

The only important strategic question, for peace and climate activists desperately savvy enough to join forces, is whose issue should take the lead as the banner issue. I’ll argue here that it should be the climate issue, but framed not merely as a call for climate action but for climate justice, where world peace is rightly viewed as an absolutely critical precondition for addressing humanity’s climate emergency.

So my case here depends partly on arguing that climate justice–which includes peace–is the master moral and political narrative of our times. But even more importantly, it depends on highlighting a potent newsmaking force for climate action–and latently for climate justice and peace–already on the ground: the Sunrise climate movement.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/12/03/peace-activists-best-hope-the-sunrise-climate-movement/

Sunrise is a movement to stop climate change and create millions of good jobs in the process.

We're building an army of young people to make climate change an urgent priority across America, end the corrupting influence of fossil fuel executives on our politics, and elect leaders who stand up for the health and wellbeing of all people.

We are ordinary young people who are scared about what the climate crisis means for the people and places we love. We are gathering in classrooms, living rooms, and worship halls across the country. Everyone has a role to play. Public opinion is already with us - if we unite by the millions we can turn this into political power and reclaim our democracy.

https://www.sunrisemovement.org/who-we-are/


Lurk369:Best of Bookmarks
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 02:26:38 AM by Lurk »

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5423
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 526
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #689 on: December 04, 2018, 09:22:31 PM »
Robert Reich:

“Elizabeth Warren gave one of the most important foreign-policy speeches in recent memory yesterday. It wasn't just a rebuke of Trump and the Republicans but also of the  Democratic Party over the last decades, especially the so-called “Washington consensus” about the wonders of free-market capitalism. Here’s the critical paragraph:

"Washington had it all figured out. And this confidence spilled over into more than trade deals. Champions of cutthroat capitalism pushed former Soviet states to privatize as quickly as possible, despite the risk of corruption. They looked the other way as China manipulated its currency to advance its own interests and undercut work done here in America. Washington technocrats backed austerity, deregulation, and privatization around the world. As one crisis after another hit, the economic security of working people around the globe was destroyed, reducing public faith in both capitalism and democracy. Policymakers promised that open markets would lead to open societies. Wow. Did Washington get that one wrong. Efforts to bring capitalism to the global stage unwittingly helped create the conditions for anti-democratic countries to rise up and lash out. Russia has become belligerent and resurgent. China has weaponized its economy without loosening its domestic political constraints. And over time, in country after country, faith in both capitalism and democracy has eroded. A program once aimed at promoting the forces of freedom ended up empowering the opposite."

Warren gets it.”

Elizabeth Warren Just Took a Crucial Stand for Democracy and Enlightened Internationalism
https://www.thenation.com/article/elizabeth-warren-american-university-speech/


How "brave", undoubtedly 1/1024th of her heritage.

A little untimely thanksgiving humor to lighten the mood.

https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/136321760?profile=original&width=312

Terry



sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #690 on: December 07, 2018, 11:05:52 PM »
Scheer interviews Segarra over at truthdig on regulatory capture: Segarra was the one who blew the lid off the Federal Reserve/Goldman Sachs scandal where officials of both organizations broke the law and covered it up. Guess what. No one except Segarra was punished ...

" ... Congress did hold a hearing, but they did not invite me to testify. They didn’t want to hear what I had to say. And so I think what we have in terms of this story is really not just a failure of the banks and the regulators, but also a failure of our prosecutors. I mean, a lot of the statutes that could be used–criminal statutes, even, that could be used to hold these executives accountable are not being used, and they have not expired; we could have prosecutors holding these people accountable. We could have trial lawyers filing cases and holding these people accountable. Yet we can’t count on them to do it; we can’t count on the judiciary to do anything about it. "

"The case was assigned to a judge who was friends with the attorney, I had worked with the attorney that represented the Fed. And then two days before dismissing the case, she revealed that she was married to someone who represented Goldman Sachs for a living. So, yeah, there you go."

"And if you read a study done by the Federal Reserve of St. Louis about the consequence of this economic meltdown that was engineered from places like Goldman Sachs, the human cost was incredible. I mean, people lost everything. They weren’t bailed out. There was no mortgage relief. They were not helped. The banks were bailed out. And yet no one has been held accountable, and the politicians, democrats and republicans, who supported it, have gotten off scot-free."

"The U.S. dollar is a reserve currency. The world depends in large part on the American banking system to work. And for it to work, there are these rules, and these rules are there to create trust in the system and to create smooth processes in the system, so that money can be moved and the economy can continue to grow. If the world can no longer trust the American banking system because Americans cannot be trusted to regulate it, they are going to move away from the American banking system. They are going to move away from the U.S. dollar as a reserve currency."

" I mean, if they’re asking for a report, that means that they plan to do nothing about it. "

" ... the story of how they played at this game of pretending to clean up the regulatory issues. I mean, the joke really was on us, the new regulators that were brought in from the industry to actually clean up the problems that were there. None of us are there at the Fed anymore. Every single one of those people that I talk about that validated my story, they’re gone. And they are gone under different circumstances, some in good standing, some in less good standing, but the point is they’re all gone. Because the purpose of bringing us in was not really to change things, it was to ensure that they had a smoke screen and a story to feed the press, that they would print, saying that they had indeed fixed this. And there was nothing else there to see."

Scheer Intelligence is a good show. Read/listen at

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/wall-streets-corruption-runs-deeper-than-you-can-fathom/

sidd

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #691 on: December 08, 2018, 08:44:44 PM »
"What’s that? You want a reasonable price quote, upfront, for our services? Sorry, let me explain a hospital to you: we give you medical care, then we charge whatever the hell we want for it."

"Oh, you think you think we’re cruel and illogical? Well, no one forced you to come here. It’s your decision, you head-injured meatball. Feel free to go out into the parking lot and just die."

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/welcome-to-our-modern-hospital-where-if-you-want-to-know-a-price-you-can-go-fuck-yourself

sidd

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #692 on: December 11, 2018, 12:09:12 AM »
Piketty (and many others)  in the Guardian propose a new model for Europe:

"four major European taxes, the tangible markers of this European solidarity. These will apply to the profits of major firms, the top incomes (over €200,000 a year), the highest wealth owners (over €1m ) and carbon emissions (with a minimum price of €30 a tonne). If it is fixed at 4% of GDP, as we propose, this budget could finance research, training and the European universities, an ambitious investment programme to transform our model of economic growth, the financing of the reception and integration of migrants, and the support of those involved in carrying out this transformation. It could also give some budgetary leeway to member states to reduce the regressive taxation that weighs on salaries or consumption."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/09/manifesto-divided-europe-inequality-europeans

sidd

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #693 on: December 14, 2018, 09:54:50 PM »

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 15890
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 233
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #694 on: December 17, 2018, 07:36:17 PM »
The AI boom is happening all over the world, and it’s accelerating quickly
Quote
...
With automation, we’ve come to an understanding that mass unemployment isn’t coming anytime soon, and the bigger concern is whether we as a society are prepared for the nature of work to transition toward less stable, lower-paid jobs without safety nets like health insurance.

Not everyone is going to lose their job right away. Rather, certain jobs will be eliminated over time, while others will become semi-automated. And some jobs will always require a human being. The fate of workers will depend on certain employer constraints, labor laws and regulations, and whether there’s a good enough system in place to transition people into new roles or industries. For instance, a McKinsey Global Institute report from November of last year found that 800 million jobs could be lost to worldwide automation by 2030, but only about 6 percent of all jobs are at risk of complete automation. How that process of moving from a human-only job to an AI- or robot-assisted one is developed could mean the difference between a full-blown crisis and a historical paradigm shift. ...
https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/12/18136929/artificial-intelligence-ai-index-report-2018-machine-learning-global-progress-research
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Nemesis

  • Guest
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #695 on: December 17, 2018, 07:42:01 PM »
Another funny capitalist bubble going to hell:

" 15.12.2018 - Why Shorting Bitcoin (BTC) At These Levels Is A Recipe For Disaster"

https://cryptodaily.co.uk/2018/12/why-shorting-bitcoin-at-these-levels-is-a-recipe-for-disaster

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • *****
  • Posts: 7209
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 732
  • Likes Given: 477
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #696 on: December 18, 2018, 09:43:58 AM »
I think there's a very interesting relationship between AI and the future of capitalism.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Sleepy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1202
  • Retired, again...
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 126
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #697 on: December 18, 2018, 11:43:21 AM »
Neither will exist?

The AI boom is happening all over the world, and it’s accelerating quickly

Yeah whatever. Hand waving is fun too.

But what does any of that have to do with  If not Capitalism... then What?  And, How?

Could we stick to the actual topic please?
If you hadn't deleted the other thread you started "Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics" you could've pointed Sig to that one?
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5423
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 526
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #698 on: December 18, 2018, 05:32:25 PM »
Has capitalism ever worked for the good of most of the people? It's certainly wonderful for the tiny minority near the top, but once you allow for the 1%, the 10%, or even the upper quintile, how do the lower 80% fare. Does the lower half of the population benefit in any way from the blessings of capitalism?


If the lower half of a capitalistic population is supporting itself well, it can only be because they have capital to invest. If the lower half of a particular demographic has an investable surplus, you can be sure that it's not the result of capitalism.


During Cuba's "Special Period" the government delivered enough food to each dwelling on a daily basis so that no one went hungry, not even those without refrigeration. Health care and education (to any level) was also assured.
Cubans now live longer lives than their American tormentors. There is a divine irony at play when you recognize that the guards at Guantanamo won't live as long as the locals whose land has been expropriated. Their children won't be as well educated, and their wives are more likely to die during childbirth.


The Countries that best exemplify the benefits of capitalism, Northern European & German "workers paradises", are those that incorporate the largest slices of socialistic programs into their mix.
Capitalism wasn't designed for the benefit of the masses, rather for the aggrandizement of those already possessing capital. It's popularity is heralded by those who own printing presses and broadcasting infrastructure - not affordable to any but the 1%.


Terry

sidd

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4979
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 379
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: If not Capitalism... then What? And, How?
« Reply #699 on: December 20, 2018, 12:22:51 AM »
Zizek at the Independent calls on gilet-jaunes to radicalize further:

"  mixture of demands that are impossible to meet within the system although they address them at the system. This feature is crucial: their demands express their interests rooted in the existing system. "

" This doesn’t mean that we simply need a different socioeconomic system, a system which would be able to meet the protesters’ demands: the process of radical transformation would also give rise to different demands and expectations. Say, with regard to fuel costs, what is really needed is not just cheap fuel, the true goal is to diminish our dependency on oil for ecological reasons, to change not only our transportation but our entire way of life. The same holds for lower taxes plus better healthcare and education: the whole paradigm will have to change."

"The same holds for our big ethical-political problem: how to deal with the flow of refugees? The solution is not to just open the borders to all who want to come in, and to ground this openness in our generalised guilt  ... the “contradiction” between advocates of open borders and populist anti-immigrants is a false “secondary contradiction” whose ultimate function is to obfuscate the need to change the system itself: the entire international economic system which, in its present form, gives rise to refugees."

"This provocation has to be followed by a key step further: not demanding the impossible from the system but demanding the “impossible” changes of the system itself."

Read the whole thing:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/yellow-vest-protests-france-paris-gilets-jaunes-macron-fuel-tax-minimum-wage-populism-a8686586.html

sidd