Hygenic Earth Energy - Hydrogen from fossil fuels

[jonthed]

I couldn't see any previous mentions but this tech seems to have been in the news a couple of years ago. Back in the news (my news) the last couple of days...

Any comments or knowledge of its progress/practicality?

Briefly; existing and even old, "dry" fossil fuel reserves can be filled with oxygen to cause a reaction where hydrogen can be extracted. The hydrogen can be extracted and transported with minimal changes to existing infrastructure, then used in the already existing hydrogen economy to allow rapid commercialisation and expansion, so hydrogen can then be used in place of standard fossil fuels for many purposes.

http://proton.energy/

The way I see it, this would be a near "silver-bullet solution":

Fossil Fuel giants and our dependence on them has been one of the key factors hindering a transition. They stand to go out of business and have trillions of dollars of stranded assets. So they've been resisting with the full weight of their power and influence.

If we can give them a way out, a way for them to become partners rather than enemies, then we can enjoy the full weight of their power driving the transition.

If all their infrastructure, all their investments and reserves, suddenly become part of the climate solution, while keeping them in business indefinitely and in fact painting them as the heroes, then everyone stands to gain.

If their is any possibility this tech could work, it deserves serious investment to try. It really could turn our biggest problem into our biggest ally.



Tags: Hygenic Earth Energy, Hydrogen, Proton Technologies

[TerryM]

jon

The way you describe it, testing in an abandoned well should be relatively cheap and easy, and it sounds as though it would scale easily also.


How is the oxygen produced, and how much is required to produce a given amount of hydrogen?
Why hasn't it been done previously?
Terry

[Grubbegrabben]

This looks very much like a scam to me. They got a decent chunk of government money in dec -17 and after that they have zero "news" on their website. Also, they are mentioned on the same sites that report on the e-cat...

This is an extract from their website (that made me laugh out loud):

"Oxygen-enhanced air is produced at the wellhead, and then injected deep into the reservoir through an ‘Oxinjection Well‘. Gases, coke and heavier hydrocarbons are oxidized in place (a process known as In-Situ Combustion). Targeted portions of the reservoir become very warm. Where necessary, the temperatures are heightened further through radio frequency emissions. Eventually, oxidation temperatures exceed 500°C. This extreme heat causes the nearby hydrocarbons, and any surrounding water molecules, to break apart. Both the hydrocarbons and the H2O become a temporary source of free hydrogen gas.After creating free hydrogen, one or more Hygeneration wells extracts the elemental hydrogen, using Proton’s patented Hygenerator. The Hygenerator is a dynamic down-hole device that uses feedback from inside the wells to intelligently locate hydrogen. A selective membrane inside the Hygenerator filters the gases, and a pump moves pure hydrogen gas up to the wellhead"

So, blow oxygen into an oil well, add some sort of microwave oven and harvest hydrogen gas using basically a magical wand called a Hygenerator. Yeah, right. If this works, it will be just slightly less complicated to operate than a mission to mars (imo).

Edit: The last news was dec -17 and not -18 as in my original post.

[jonthed]

@Grubbegrabben

Did you watch their videos?

You seem to have sarcastically dismissed what I thought seemed like sound science. I only considered the price point to be the possible problem factor.

One of their videos even shows you around their test site.

The lack of news updates on their site is why I'm here, and somewhat concerning, but sometimes a proof of concept could take a couple of years to get to a point of results to announce. Maybe they're waiting on patents/investor deals.  Maybe they're out of money.

But is the science wrong? You don't think you can extract hydrogen this way?

[TerryM]

^^
At the expected temperatures of 500C we could pipe down great quantities of water - and generate great quantities of electricity!
Who needs hydrogen when we've clean electricity that could be harvested using century old technology.
We could pipe down seawater & harvest distilled water. In desiccated regions we could pipe down mash and harvest "Nature's Own Whiskey" - what a boon for the poor!
We could pipe down wood pellets and harvest charcoal - Down with electric grills!
Where can I invest in this in this (literally) ground breaking technology.


Terry
PSST
Pass the basket before they come to their senses.
[Edit - Sorry re. the cross post

[Grubbegrabben]

@Grubbegrabben

Did you watch their videos?

You seem to have sarcastically dismissed what I thought seemed like sound science. I only considered the price point to be the possible problem factor.

One of their videos even shows you around their test site.

The lack of news updates on their site is why I'm here, and somewhat concerning, but sometimes a proof of concept could take a couple of years to get to a point of results to announce. Maybe they're waiting on patents/investor deals.  Maybe they're out of money.

But is the science wrong? You don't think you can extract hydrogen this way?

Sorry about the sarcasm, but it is so obviously fake that I couldn't help myself. No I don't think this is remotely possible.

The videos contain basically no information (viewed both). The test site is a bunch of rusty pipes and a few fuse boxes with a "Proton Technologies" sticker. The only comment on one video is "Did you prove at least some of the concept on your Superb testing facility? Especially the concentration of Hydrogen in the waste gas ISC processes generate? So far the known numbers are around 1.5-2%"

On the other video comments are disabled.

I am a programmer but work closely with electronic and mechanical design teams. My gut feeling is that a device containing a hydrogen separator membrane, a microvawe radio energy source, a hydrogen locator, a hydrogen pump and various other stuff located INSIDE an oil well @500C is well beyond any engineering capacity known to mankind.

The Venera capsules sent by the russians to Venus did operate at 500C for like 20-50 minutes so to some extent it is possible I guess.

[DrTskoul]

I have been in Alberta and I got a fact that this is not a scam. There has been a ton of research for in-situ upgrading of bitumen and heavy hydrocarbons with air and added external energy ( uhf, microwaves etc). Nobody would give a license to operate an underground fire essentially...  not back then,  not today.

[Richard Rathbone]

Oxygen + steam + hydrocarbons => H2 + CO2 <=> H2O + CO

Standard way of making H2 from hydrocarbons dressed up to be done underground.

Its a scam in the sense that CO2 is a co-product, and they aren't telling you that, but the reactions work and most hydrogen is manufactured this way.

Its the sort of technology an oil sands operator would be interested in as insurance. Maybe in some future regulatory climate it allows them to exploit a loophole and sell H2 generated from bitumen without paying a carbon tax, but its going to need to have some sort of tax/regulatory exploit to make it worth running a water gas shift operation underground rather than on the surface.

[VaughnAn]

@Grubbegrabben

Did you watch their videos?

You seem to have sarcastically dismissed what I thought seemed like sound science. I only considered the price point to be the possible problem factor.

One of their videos even shows you around their test site.

The lack of news updates on their site is why I'm here, and somewhat concerning, but sometimes a proof of concept could take a couple of years to get to a point of results to announce. Maybe they're waiting on patents/investor deals.  Maybe they're out of money.

But is the science wrong? You don't think you can extract hydrogen this way?

Sorry about the sarcasm, but it is so obviously fake that I couldn't help myself. No I don't think this is remotely possible.

The videos contain basically no information (viewed both). The test site is a bunch of rusty pipes and a few fuse boxes with a "Proton Technologies" sticker. The only comment on one video is "Did you prove at least some of the concept on your Superb testing facility? Especially the concentration of Hydrogen in the waste gas ISC processes generate? So far the known numbers are around 1.5-2%"

On the other video comments are disabled.

I am a programmer but work closely with electronic and mechanical design teams. My gut feeling is that a device containing a hydrogen separator membrane, a microvawe radio energy source, a hydrogen locator, a hydrogen pump and various other stuff located INSIDE an oil well @500C is well beyond any engineering capacity known to mankind.

The Venera capsules sent by the russians to Venus did operate at 500C for like 20-50 minutes so to some extent it is possible I guess.

I agree this sounds very fake.  When it is done on the surface you have to get carbon dioxide/carbon monoxide/ carbon.  What's to stop carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide from coming to the surface?  I am not holding my breath.

[oren]

Oxygen, fossil fuels, 500C, sounds like burning... surely lots of CO2 comes out?
Instead of this nonsense, put on some solar panels and some electrolysis, bingo you've got hydrogen for free, without needing to go to remote underground locations with heavy industrial processes and waste lots of water and energy in the process.

[kassy]

Its a scam in the sense that CO2 is a co-product, and they aren't telling you that, but the reactions work and most hydrogen is manufactured this way.

So clearly this is not that silver bullit...

[gerontocrat]

Its a scam in the sense that CO2 is a co-product, and they aren't telling you that, but the reactions work and most hydrogen is manufactured this way.

So clearly this is not that silver bullit...

So how much energy has to go in compared with energy out?
Now we have PV and Solar and perhaps hydro and nuclear, making the hydrogen we need only makes sense (it seems to me) if it is made by electrolysis from spare renewable energy lying around being wasted.

But then again - Laws of Physics? who cares.

[kassy]

Its the sort of technology an oil sands operator would be interested in as insurance.

Did you miss Richards post #7 on this thread? There is nothing wrong with making hydrogen but this proposal is actually helping FF producers so it is a no go.

[VaughnAn]

It's worse than useless.  Another con game for somebody to make money without regards to environmental concerns.  Actually, far worse than useless.

[Richard Rathbone]

So how much energy has to go in compared with energy out?
Now we have PV and Solar and perhaps hydro and nuclear, making the hydrogen we need only makes sense (it seems to me) if it is made by electrolysis from spare renewable energy lying around being wasted.

But then again - Laws of Physics? who cares.

If we ever get a seriously renewable hydrogen economy, this will be part of it. It might even be profitable at the moment, but the trouble with relying on spare electricity is that when it isn't there, your capital is lying around being wasted.

I also suspect H2 will never be that significant, advances in solar have pretty much closed the window of viability for CCS, and I think advances in battery technology are doing the same thing to H2.