Author Topic: The 2015 melting season (Read 2428038 times)

Neven · « **Reply #3750 on:** August 28, 2015, 09:02:24 PM »

There comes a point (and we're rapidly approaching it) where cyclones mean the melting season ends early. For a late minimum you need compaction, and for compaction you need a high pressure area on the American side of the Arctic.

I came to this conclusion fairly soon after starting the Arctic Sea Ice blog, back in August 2010: End Zone 3: atmospheric pressure. If you carefully watch the animations and compare with End Zone 2: ice displacement, you'll see the pattern.

If there's a dipole 2015 could come in second on some, maybe most sea ice extent and area graphs. If there's no dipole, probably not.

seaicesailor · « **Reply #3751 on:** August 28, 2015, 10:06:56 PM »

Yet, very short term, we have this growing storm at the South-West side of Alaska that is, as we speak, bringing heat to Alaska, and then to the Arctic. Guess from where? The Blob at the Pacific.

I really doubt El Niño 2014-2015-2016 is not making this season a bit more special.

Bob Wallace · « **Reply #3752 on:** August 28, 2015, 10:12:20 PM »

Here's what HYCOM thinks will happen between today (28 Aug) and a week from now (03 Sep).

The thinning on the European and Atlantic sides is interesting. Along with the spurt out the Fram Strait.

Gonzo · « **Reply #3753 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:05:40 PM »

Continuation of the correction.
http://polarportal.dk/en/havisen-i-arktis/nbsp/sea-ice-extent/

Gonzo · « **Reply #3754 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:11:29 PM »

Lincoln Sea turned to mush.
See images below.
AUG 27-28
2012
2013
2014
2015

AmbiValent · « **Reply #3755 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:22:21 PM »

Quote from: Bob Wallace on August 28, 2015, 10:12:20 PM

Here's what HYCOM thinks will happen between today (28 Aug) and a week from now (03 Sep).

The thinning on the European and Atlantic sides is interesting. Along with the spurt out the Fram Strait.

Also, the thick ice in the CAB is moving further away from the western part of the northern CAA, where there's been quite some melting. Without thick ice pushing into that spot, melting would be much easier there next year.

seaicesailor · « **Reply #3756 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:50:54 PM »

Quote from: Gonzo on August 28, 2015, 11:11:29 PM

Lincoln Sea turned to mush.
See images below.
AUG 27-28
2012
2013
2014
2015

Wow
Is that Nares strait?

Gonzo · « **Reply #3757 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:52:23 PM »

seaicesailor

Quote

Wow
Is that Nares strait?

Yes.

diablobanquisa · « **Reply #3758 on:** August 29, 2015, 12:23:53 AM »

The arm:

http://www.polarview.aq/images/106_S1jpgsmall/S1A_EW_GRDM_1SDH_20150828T171417_EC00_N_1.jpg

slow wing · « **Reply #3759 on:** August 29, 2015, 04:31:28 AM »

The U. Bremen update shows different parts of the ice pack blown in different directions, with several different atmospheric systems in different parts of the Arctic, most notably the storm on the Pacific side that continues to work away on the remaining ice in and around the Beaufort Sea.

At around 160W in the Beaufort Sea, the solid region of the ice pack now doesn't extend much beyond 80 degrees North, with mostly low concentration ice South of that.

The Beaufort Arm has severed near the shoulder. The lower arm continues to melt out and is flying away Eastwards (i.e. towards Canada) from the shoulder, which is at around 175E and is itself heading South.

Just a bit further around though, the 'forearm'protusion is heading in a different direction: compacting Northwards at the tip and the side at ~150E is heading Westwards.

Still further around, at 105E, the stump that forms a corner the of ice pack between the Laptev Sea and the Atlantic continues to melt inwards - it looks like this corner might shave off completely, as someone suggested above.

The Atlantic side is mostly compacting slightly inwards although ice is again starting to exit the Fram Strait.

So the storm continues to do damage around the Beaufort while other parts of the Arctic also have plenty of wind moving the ice around.

Click on image to crossfade to yesterday's map...

Adam Ash · « **Reply #3760 on:** August 29, 2015, 05:59:22 AM »

Its amazing to see, in Cryosphere's slightly cruder representation of concentration, that the planet's northern ice cap is now shown fully bounded on all sides by ice with a concentration of 60% or less, with no walkable route to the Pole available from solid ground at any point on the compass.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/NEWIMAGES/arctic.seaice.color.000.png

I imagine '60%' like a bunch of floor tiles - for every ten there are four missing, and the remainder are just kinda bobbing around not holding hands any more.

Much more of this and we could end up in the situation I envisaged a while back; where with a decent dipole (high over Alaska - Siberia and low over the Pole towards Svalbard) the entire ice cap can be slid like a skull-cap in the breeze out into the Atlantic within a week, never to return.

greatdying2 · « **Reply #3761 on:** August 29, 2015, 06:29:21 AM »

Worldview of what's left (not for long) of "The Arm".
(Click to enlarge.)

NeilT · « **Reply #3762 on:** August 29, 2015, 06:40:31 AM »

I did get the feeling that with these shoulders of ice standing out and with the melt stopping new ice refreshing them, that these time sequence pictures seem to show coriolis force in action.

Maybe it's the wind but it just feels that way. It would also explain what's happening to the landfast stump at 105E where the movement of the main pack is tearing itself free of the landfast ice.

It's how it looks which is interesting. Not sure I've seen that before where the entire pack might actually be becoming visibly mobile in relation to the spin of the earth over a few days sequence, although it is always mobile over a span of months.

Adam Ash · « **Reply #3763 on:** August 29, 2015, 07:04:55 AM »

Good observation! Once its is freed from earthly restraints, and since it has lost the structural integrity the cap had pre 2012 era, what else can the ice cap do, except obey the laws of physics?

Has anybody done the sums on what sort of rotation rate an ice cap extending from the Pole to say 85 degrees N would settle into due to Coriolis effects? A unique situation in the known universe, I would think - a free-floating mass centred on a planet's axis of rotation.

The ice mass is small compared with the planet (current annual average about 2E16 kg cf Earth 6E24 kg, I think), so there is unlikely to be much feedback from the ice movement into the planet's (in terms of conservation of momentum etc).

meddoc · « **Reply #3764 on:** August 29, 2015, 11:00:32 AM »

That was my question couple of days ago: on Alamo Preject Facebook site it seemed on Arctic Explorer as if the Whole Icecap's been detached & drifting into the Atlantic.
Compare the sat. images 02.08 and 20.; 21.08

Lord M Vader · « **Reply #3765 on:** August 29, 2015, 11:43:37 AM »

Very interesting action going on in the Arctic!!

Some things of interest for the final outcome of the minimum:

1) Will the ice in the northern part of hudson Bay survive this melt season? While being relatively far south it still has potential to melt some more.

2) The little piece of ice in the Laptev Sea.

3) Beaufort Sea and that "Arm" and its shoulder which continues to hang around.

4) The rather messy ice east of Victoria Island should have a decent chance to melt as a surge of warm air is pushed northward in combination with rather strong winds.

5) The two tiny ice caps east of Franz Josefs land should meet its destiny soon.

6) The ice pack north of Kugaruuk.

Conclusion: IF there is any chance to get below 2007 and/or 2011 I think we need to see these small areas of sea ice to vanish in order to get the 2nd place behind 2012. These areas are also the only ones I believe have a reasonable possibility for further melting as the temps in the Arctic basin are dipping now.

Frivolousz21 · « **Reply #3766 on:** August 29, 2015, 11:47:26 AM »

The 00z euro and gfs are brutal.

The Western CAB is done.

The far North CAA may melt out for the first time in modern history.

6roucho · « **Reply #3767 on:** August 29, 2015, 11:50:35 AM »

Quote from: Adam Ash on August 29, 2015, 07:04:55 AM

Good observation! Once its is freed from earthly restraints, and since it has lost the structural integrity the cap had pre 2012 era, what else can the ice cap do, except obey the laws of physics?

Has anybody done the sums on what sort of rotation rate an ice cap extending from the Pole to say 85 degrees N would settle into due to Coriolis effects? A unique situation in the known universe, I would think - a free-floating mass centred on a planet's axis of rotation.

The ice mass is small compared with the planet (current annual average about 2E16 kg cf Earth 6E24 kg, I think), so there is unlikely to be much feedback from the ice movement into the planet's (in terms of conservation of momentum etc).

Certainly unique at that scale.

There isn't only the Coriolis effect, but centripetal acceleration to consider.

Adam Ash · « **Reply #3768 on:** August 29, 2015, 12:07:54 PM »

True. Likely the ice cap flywheel would spin up with the edge rotating east to west (clockwise when viewed from above the NPole) so that would have to speed up Earth's anti-clockwise rotation. A shorter work day for all (by a few milliseconds)!

Neven · « **Reply #3769 on:** August 29, 2015, 12:21:34 PM »

Quote from: Frivolousz21 on August 29, 2015, 11:47:26 AM

The 00z euro and gfs are brutal.

The Western CAB is done.

The far North CAA may melt out for the first time in modern history.

I agree. Below is the ECMWF ('Euro') forecast for the coming 6 days. Look at those isobars over the CAA for Monday and Tuesday (= winds blowing the ice floes out), after which the contours of that Dipole become ever more clear with a 1030 hPa high pressure area developing over the Beaufort Sea (= compaction):

crandles · « **Reply #3770 on:** August 29, 2015, 12:57:31 PM »

Quote from: Adam Ash on August 29, 2015, 12:07:54 PM

True. Likely the ice cap flywheel would spin up with the edge rotating east to west (clockwise when viewed from above the NPole)

When attached to land it is moving with rotation of Earth as is water it is floating in. When no longer connected why would it spin up? If mass was moving towards centre of rotation, that would spin it up but I don't see adding mass by freezing on water that is also moving with rotation of Earth having that effect. Would loose bits of ice move further away from centre of rotation slowing their rotation? I doubt it, the mass of ice is the same as mass of water displaced and momentum of that ice and water further out will be the same so why would they swap places?

I think it is easier to describe what has happened in terms of a slightly unusual position for Beaufort Gyre moving ice away from western end of CAA.

Maybe winds and currents can have more effect on ice if it is detached from land so we should expect faster movement of ice with Beaufort Gyre and Transpolar Drift. It is not unusual for these to stop and start or even go in reverse from time to time and I don't see any reason for this to change. So similar persistence but perhaps faster movement speeds.

Gyre and Transpolar Drift will soon fill these low concentration area and ridging and slabbing will soon thicken ice in these strange low concentration areas. So I don't see this low concentration having much effect on next years melt. Could of course be wrong: This ridging and slabbing action may draw in ice from other areas leaving those other areas with thinner ice that are then unusually more able to melt out. Perhaps laptev bite will be more able to advance towards the pole?

I am a complete amateur at this so feel free to ignore me or tear arguments to shreads.

Peter Ellis · « **Reply #3771 on:** August 29, 2015, 01:02:45 PM »

Arctic sea ice is not fast ice.

Ice doesn't have the structural strength to behave as a single rigid body over that kind of scale - it behaves effectively as a fluid, with the particle size given by the floe size. Detaching from the Greenland coast will have no effect whatsoever.

Adam Ash · « **Reply #3772 on:** August 29, 2015, 01:18:43 PM »

Yes, to all the above, of course. I don't really know, just opening my eyes to possibilities which did not exist last week (or since man first walked these frozen lands).

I guess what would be informative would be a comment from a scientist who can tell us - as a starting point - What is the likely behaviour of a fairly deep body of open water located at the axis of rotation of a fairly rapidly rotating planet? Are the forces acting on this water likely to overcome winds and/or currents, of lead to new configurations of winds/currents due to the motion of the water?

Then we add to this information the discussion about how ice would behave in that environment.

Bruce Steele · « **Reply #3773 on:** August 29, 2015, 03:16:32 PM »

I linked this ITP WHOI buoy a couple days ago and commented on the very warm surface temperatures it was documenting. Although the yellow (-.4 ) temperatures on the T/S contours were kinda difficult to make out two days ago but they are very obvious now. This buoy#85 is in the pack north of the arm and while it lasts it is documenting how warm the surface waters are that are currently bathing the pack ice. Not cool

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=139056

plinius · « **Reply #3774 on:** August 29, 2015, 03:58:40 PM »

Quote from: Adam Ash on August 29, 2015, 01:18:43 PM

Yes, to all the above, of course. I don't really know, just opening my eyes to possibilities which did not exist last week (or since man first walked these frozen lands).

I guess what would be informative would be a comment from a scientist who can tell us - as a starting point - What is the likely behaviour of a fairly deep body of open water located at the axis of rotation of a fairly rapidly rotating planet? Are the forces acting on this water likely to overcome winds and/or currents, of lead to new configurations of winds/currents due to the motion of the water?

Then we add to this information the discussion about how ice would behave in that environment.

I think there is a lot of things going wrong in your understanding. The body of water is just spinning with the earth as it should. Please revisit the term "Coriolis forces" on wikipedia or somewhere else and get to their true meaning. Everything behaves exactly the same way as anywhere else on the northern hemisphere, just the Coriolis parameter is SLIGHTLY stronger than say at the latitude of the US.

Jim Hunt · « **Reply #3775 on:** August 29, 2015, 04:27:13 PM »

Quote from: LRC1962 on August 28, 2015, 05:18:57 PM

As Neven points out in his post, waves are going to be the issue.

Don't forget to mention your "Importance of waves" topic! My most recent addition:

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1222.msg62126.html#msg62126

LRC1962 · « **Reply #3776 on:** August 29, 2015, 05:32:15 PM »

As I have no education in where storms send waves and the wave satellites have very little sight of the Arctic Ocean, how much wave action is hitting the pole area I have no idea just speculation. Do understand what waves can do just bring it up as another possible melt possibility we sometimes forget about when talking about weaken ice conditions other then just compaction.

NeilT · « **Reply #3777 on:** August 29, 2015, 06:23:56 PM »

Actually it was not my thought that the ice was spinning up. It was my thought that ice, no longer attached, was slowing down.

My thought was that once ice is no longer firmly attached to land, there is no reason, when floating on the sea, that it should directly spin with the earth.

It was just a thought and a potential observation. The velocity of the ice could actually slow relative to the spin speed of the earth. But would accelerate (in the opposite direction to the spin of the earth), relative to the mass of water on which it sits. Which is more directly impacted by the spin of the earth.

As I believe I'll see fully detached ice in my lifetime, it's going to be extremely interesting to observe.

sofouuk · « **Reply #3778 on:** August 29, 2015, 06:56:20 PM »

Quote from: NeilT on August 29, 2015, 06:23:56 PM

Actually it was not my thought that the ice was spinning up. It was my thought that ice, no longer attached, was slowing down.

My thought was that once ice is no longer firmly attached to land, there is no reason, when floating on the sea, that it should directly spin with the earth.

as Peter said, some floes are/were fast ice, but they make up an almost insignificant part of the total amount of sea ice. the idea makes no sense - the ice moves as a result of wind and currents

seaicesailor · « **Reply #3779 on:** August 29, 2015, 07:21:02 PM »

Quote from: Frivolousz21 on August 29, 2015, 11:47:26 AM

The 00z euro and gfs are brutal.

The Western CAB is done.

The far North CAA may melt out for the first time in modern history.

Yep, that is the Pacific breeze :--) passing above Canada
Canada is really warm. Arctic amplification at its best

seaicesailor · « **Reply #3780 on:** August 29, 2015, 07:22:58 PM »

Or worst

Gonzo · « **Reply #3781 on:** August 29, 2015, 07:38:11 PM »

NeilT

Quote

As I believe I'll see fully detached ice in my lifetime,

Not just in your lifetime.
This year, 2015.

Gonzo · « **Reply #3782 on:** August 29, 2015, 07:44:44 PM »

Frivolousz21 Today at 11:47:26 AM

Quote

The Western CAB is done.
The far North CAA may melt out for the first time in modern history.

seaicesailor

Quote

Yep, that is the Pacific breeze :--) passing above Canada
Canada is really warm. Arctic amplification at its best

The CAA snags a lot of icebergs as the icepack shunts past, so would be surprising if it was ice free this year. However, it is very likely that the icepack will be unattached to all land this year, such that theoretically, a person could almost put a sturdy (not some heavy-duty ice-breaker) boat to circumnavigate the icepack for the first time ever, were the boat fast enough.
Any true explorers still left on the planet ... go for it !

Nick_Naylor · « **Reply #3783 on:** August 29, 2015, 08:56:34 PM »

So what do we call a gap that encircles the entire ice pack?
The NorthEastSouthWest Passage?
The Frivolous Gap?

Peter Ellis · « **Reply #3784 on:** August 29, 2015, 09:11:48 PM »

The Circumpolar Flaw Lead system. It's well-known.

NeilT · « **Reply #3785 on:** August 29, 2015, 09:14:56 PM »

Quote from: Gonzo on August 29, 2015, 07:38:11 PM

NeilT
Quote
As I believe I'll see fully detached ice in my lifetime,
Not just in your lifetime.
This year, 2015.

I meant clear water all round, 10's of km of it, nothing touching anywhwere. That I'm likely to see. Although the prevailing motion tends to stack ice up on the CAA and Greenland, so it will take a fairly exceptional melt year to do that.

Nick_Naylor · « **Reply #3786 on:** August 29, 2015, 09:20:30 PM »

Quote from: Nick_Naylor on August 07, 2015, 06:08:25 PM

Seeing the state of the ice connecting the pack to Greenland, Ellesmere and the CAA, it seems the day may not be too far in the future when it would make sense to say that the ice pack had completely detached from land - if only for a few hours or days when it first happens.

How would we define such an event? The lack of a 100 mile contiguous length of 90+% concentration ice? Just wondering, since a good blast of wind in the right direction in the next couple of weeks could create a controversy over what had just happened.

This is looking more likely given recent events. What would it take for us to say that the ice pack had detached, or does it have to be blatantly obvious?

plinius · « **Reply #3787 on:** August 29, 2015, 09:21:19 PM »

Quote from: NeilT on August 29, 2015, 06:23:56 PM

Actually it was not my thought that the ice was spinning up. It was my thought that ice, no longer attached, was slowing down.

My thought was that once ice is no longer firmly attached to land, there is no reason, when floating on the sea, that it should directly spin with the earth.

It was just a thought and a potential observation. The velocity of the ice could actually slow relative to the spin speed of the earth. But would accelerate (in the opposite direction to the spin of the earth), relative to the mass of water on which it sits. Which is more directly impacted by the spin of the earth.

As I believe I'll see fully detached ice in my lifetime, it's going to be extremely interesting to observe.

My goodness - have you ever heard about conservation of angular momentum? It will NOT spin down, because there is no force (or better torque!) acting on it. Full stop.
There is also nothing interesting to observe. Even if there was a single storm or anticyclone "spinning the ice up", it would still not start rotating fast - inertia is negligible compared to the frictional forces with atmosphere and ocean there, plus the fact that the ice would not even have the tensile strength to rotate solidly, as one of my predecessors said.

plinius · « **Reply #3788 on:** August 29, 2015, 09:23:26 PM »

Quote from: Nick_Naylor on August 29, 2015, 09:20:30 PM

This is looking more likely given recent events. What would it take for us to say that the ice pack had detached, or does it have to be blatantly obvious?

In fact rather nothing. The ice is practically detached. On a system that size those two meters of ice layer are not really fixed by the contact to Greenland. Minor pressure term. Won't make a lot of difference to its motions.

Phil. · « **Reply #3789 on:** August 29, 2015, 10:24:16 PM »

Quote from: Gonzo on August 29, 2015, 07:44:44 PM

Frivolousz21 Today at 11:47:26 AM
Quote
The Western CAB is done.
The far North CAA may melt out for the first time in modern history.
seaicesailor
Quote
Yep, that is the Pacific breeze :--) passing above Canada
Canada is really warm. Arctic amplification at its best
The CAA snags a lot of icebergs as the icepack shunts past, so would be surprising if it was ice free this year. However, it is very likely that the icepack will be unattached to all land this year, such that theoretically, a person could almost put a sturdy (not some heavy-duty ice-breaker) boat to circumnavigate the icepack for the first time ever, were the boat fast enough.
Any true explorers still left on the planet ... go for it !

This was done a couple of years ago, first traversed the Northern sea route (from Norway?), then the NW passage. I can't recall the boat's name.

Neven · « **Reply #3790 on:** August 29, 2015, 10:31:55 PM »

Quote from: Phil. on August 29, 2015, 10:24:16 PM

This was done a couple of years ago, first traversed the Northern sea route (from Norway?), then the NW passage. I can't recall the boat's name.

The Northern Passage. I remember it was very exciting at the time and wrote quite a lot about the expedition on the ASIB.

BTW, one of my first blog posts I wrote for the blog was about circumnavigating Greenland (because the ice pack would detach itself from Greenland), calling the water that would open up Knopfler Strait. Quite silly in retrospect, and not just because of the strait's name.

Anything interesting happening in the Arctic now, as opposed to some time in the future? I wrote a short analysis on what August volume loss PIOMAS is going to announce next week on the PIOMAS thread.

I'll go and check the forecasts now.

Nick_Naylor · « **Reply #3791 on:** August 29, 2015, 11:12:01 PM »

Quote from: plinius on August 29, 2015, 09:23:26 PM

Quote from: Nick_Naylor on August 29, 2015, 09:20:30 PM
This is looking more likely given recent events. What would it take for us to say that the ice pack had detached, or does it have to be blatantly obvious?

In fact rather nothing. The ice is practically detached. On a system that size those two meters of ice layer are not really fixed by the contact to Greenland. Minor pressure term. Won't make a lot of difference to its motions.

Crossing the magic 1,000,000 km^2 extent barrier to "ice-free" minimum is even less likely to cause a step change in behavior, it's in our nature to take note when the apparent state of things changes.

Also it's quite possible that a freely drifting ice pack could reveal some surprises.

Jim Hunt · « **Reply #3792 on:** August 29, 2015, 11:51:17 PM »

Quote from: Neven on August 29, 2015, 10:31:55 PM

Anything interesting happening in the Arctic now

Well the main drag through the Northwest Passage is currently almost open:

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,762.msg62253.html#msg62253

JayW · « **Reply #3793 on:** August 30, 2015, 12:42:49 AM »

Looks like a moderate cyclone wants to set up in the Kara sea.
First attachment 29/12z ECMWF ensemble MSLP anomaly mean, hr 120
http://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=ecmwf-ens&region=nhem&pkg=mslpa_sd&runtime=2015082912&fh=120&xpos=0&ypos=248

And also, like some potential for a persistent cross polar flow from the Bering to the Fram in a bit of a blocky pattern.

Second attachment is the 8-10 day ECMWF/GFS/CMC H5 means
http://mp1.met.psu.edu/~fxg1/CMCNA_12z/hgtcomp.html

Third attachment is the NAEFS temperature probabilities, indicating a 90% chance our better, for above average temps.
http://weather.gc.ca/ensemble/naefs/semaine2_combinee_e.html

solartim27 · « **Reply #3794 on:** August 30, 2015, 02:32:54 AM »

The incredible shrinking anemone, like when you brush the top with your finger and it pulls in. Had to skip a few days to reduce the file size.

slow wing · « **Reply #3795 on:** August 30, 2015, 03:14:00 AM »

The forearm/anemone is shattering now, which actually shows the ice to still have some structural strength rather than being 'rotten ice'. But is it now going to break up?

budmantis · « **Reply #3796 on:** August 30, 2015, 03:39:07 AM »

I doubt much will happen at this point, based solely on my observing arctic sea ice melt since 2009, but I imagine there are far more knowledgable people on this forum that have other ideas.

slow wing · « **Reply #3797 on:** August 30, 2015, 04:02:57 AM »

Continuing drama from the Beaufort Sea storm as it continues to smash the sea ice in that region and now further inwards towards the North Pole.

Observe the new low concentration region between about 150E and 170E and at 7 to 9 degrees from the Pole! Green patches there correspond to below 50% concentration.

Worldview is only showing cloud cover there at the moment. What will we see when the cloud lifts?!

At least Climate Reanalyser is now forecasting (GFS code) the winds dying down now, both from the storm and around the Arctic Basin in general. Is this the consensus of the forecasts?

Click on gif to crossfade between yesterday's and today's U.Bremen ice concentration maps...

jdallen · « **Reply #3798 on:** August 30, 2015, 08:14:16 AM »

Quote from: solartim27 on August 30, 2015, 02:32:54 AM

The incredible shrinking anemone, like when you brush the top with your finger and it pulls in. Had to skip a few days to reduce the file size.

That's MYI, if I recall, and is right now, getting the Cr*p beaten out of it.

jdallen · « **Reply #3799 on:** August 30, 2015, 08:27:21 AM »

OK, see below an area which is about 6 degrees by 6 degrees, or right about a quarter million square KM of arctic ice in the CAB, adjacent to the Beaufort and Chukchi.

This is ice which is considered part of the full extent of the arctic pack, but I guarantee you, it's nothing like what might be considered normal now, much less 10 years ago.

The fact the ice is in this state is very much not OK...

We may not be at 2012 levels, but I'm pretty much convinced this year is as bad or worse for the ice than 2012 was, even if the specific metrics don't show that.

News: