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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1300 on: July 24, 2020, 09:57:04 PM »
Tesla to install 800 MWh Megapack batteries for NV’s Gigawatt 1 initiative
July 24, 2020
Quote
Tesla Energy, together with tech infrastructure firm Switch and asset management firm Capital Dynamics, is involved in a massive sustainable energy project that’s poised to become one of the largest solar and battery installations in the world. The initiative, dubbed as the “Gigawatt 1” project, is expected to generate 555MW of solar power and create 800MWh of battery storage for Nevada.

The project’s announcement was related on sustainable energy outlet PVTech on Thursday. The Gigawatt 1 initiative will be comprised of three key solar and battery installations. Work has already begun on facilities at Clark and Storey County. And according to the firms involved in the project, the Storey County installation will be “the largest behind-the-meter solar project in the world” with its 127MW/240MWh size.

The batteries that would be utilized for the Gigawatt 1 project will be Tesla’s flagship energy product, the Megapack. The Megapack is Tesla’s largest energy storage unit, and it’s specifically designed for grid use. During the product’s announcement last year, Tesla noted that the large battery units feature a 60% increase in energy density over the Powerpack and it boasts up to 3 MWh of storage per pack.

What’s particularly impressive about the Megapack is that it is designed specifically for quick installations. It also comes with an AC interface and DC connectivity for solar grids, making the massive battery unit into a “plug and play” solution. “Using Megapack, Tesla can deploy an emissions-free 250 MW, 1 GWh power plant in less than three months on a three-acre footprint – four times faster than a traditional fossil fuel power plant of that size,” Tesla noted during its announcement of the battery. ... 
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-megapack-batteries-800mwh-nevada-project/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1301 on: July 29, 2020, 07:31:04 PM »
California
Tesla, PG&E break ground on 'landmark' energy storage facility 
July 29, 2020
Quote
Tesla Inc. TSLA, +2.31% and PG&Electric Corp. PCG, +1.39% broke ground last week on a lithium-ion battery energy storage system at a PG&E electric substation in the central coast of California, the companies said in a statement that called the facility a "landmark." The system will be designed, constructed, and maintained by both companies, and owned and operated by PG&E, they said.

Construction is expected to continue into early next year, with the goal of having it energized in early 2021 and fully operational in the second quarter of 2021. "Once operational, the Moss Landing substation system will be one of the largest utility-owned, lithium-ion battery energy storage systems in the world," the companies said. Stationary energy-storage systems help smooth out electric-grid peaks and valleys and make the grid more reliable.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-pge-break-ground-on-landmark-energy-storage-facility-2020-07-29
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Yuha

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1302 on: August 13, 2020, 12:18:53 PM »
Tesla big battery sets new record as testing for Hornsdale expansion enters final stage
Australia, 11 August 2020
Quote
It is now being expanded to a capacity of 150MW/194MWh, and is adding new services, particularly synthetic inertia, that will allow it to replicate more of the services once exclusive to fossil fuel generators in South Australia, and allow the grid to take another important step towards the shift to the state government target of “net 100 per cent renewables.”
[...]
On Tuesday, in the latest series of tests, the Hornsdale battery did a rapid 270MW flip – from charging at 120MW to discharging at 150MW. It appears to have flipped between the two on several different occasions (see graph above) – at least one of which had an immediate impact on the wholesale price of electricity, pushing it down to the peppercorn price of just above $8/MWh.

Those 270MW flips – from the level of discharge to the level of charge – are likely a world record in both speed and extent of the change.
[...]
The new testing on synthetic inertia, or virtual inertia as David Leitch explains in this excellent piece on the work being done already by the Dalrymple North battery, will prove yet another critical grid service and function that can be delivered by inverter-based technologies, and remove another important brick in the wall of the incumbent synchronous generators. The industry, in Australia and overseas, is watching with keen interest.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-sets-new-record-as-testing-for-hornsdale-expansion-enters-final-stage-65376/

That synthetic or virtual inertia is probably the same grid stabilizing service that was achieved using flywheel storage in Scotland as discussed in the Renewable Energy thread recently:

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,256.msg272207.html#msg272207

Sciguy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1303 on: September 02, 2020, 07:37:23 PM »
Lithium prices are still low due to oversupply despite the huge increases in battery production in the past few years.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/50-Of-Hard-Rock-Miners-Are-Losing-Money-As-Lithium-Prices-Slump.html

Quote
50% Of Hard-Rock Miners Are Losing Money As Lithium Prices Slump
By MINING.com - Sep 02, 2020

Investment in battery manufacturing plants and electric vehicle factories continues to boom around the world, but for now the market for lithium shows no signs of emerging from its multi-year slump.

Hard rock miners have been hardest hit, with the price of spodumene concentrate (feedstock for lithium hydroxide manufacture) continuing to fall on the back of break-neck expansion in Australia, which quickly became the number one producer of lithium over South American brine producers.

Yuha

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1304 on: September 04, 2020, 08:46:26 PM »
Will this be the first solid state battery in production?

QuantumScape has been developing a solid state battery for a decade in stealth mode and is now going public to raise $700 million.

https://www.quantumscape.com/investors/

Quote
We are actively planning “QS-1”, our first manufacturing facility that will be built in two stages. For our initial 1GWh of production capacity—the equivalent of ten-thousand battery electric vehicles—we plan to order long lead time equipment next year and start production in 2024. For our followon 20GWh expansion—the equivalent of two-hundred thousand battery electric vehicles—we plan to order long lead time equipment upon cell validation from the initial phase of QS-1 and start production for the expansion in 2026.

Briefly, on our financials. We believe that cash from this transaction fully funds the business through start of production, purchases long lead time equipment for our 20GWh expansion and fully funds our R&D pipeline. We expect to generate revenues beginning in 2024, to ramp up to multi-hundred million in revenue in 2026, to achieve multi-billion in revenue in 2027, and to double from 2027 levels in 2028. In 2028, with an expected just over 90GWh of capacity—the equivalent of 900,000 battery electric vehicles—and greater than 6 billion dollars in revenue, our capacity and sales would still represent less than 1% of current global annual vehicle demand, and less than 10% of annual sales for any top-3 automotive OEM.
https://www.quantumscape.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/QS-KCAC-Conference-Call-Script.pdf

Volkswagen has invested about $300 million into QuantumScape.
https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-increases-stake-in-quantumscape-6136

More details in the investor presentation:
https://www.quantumscape.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/QuantumScape-Investor-Presentation-Sept2020.pdf

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1305 on: September 17, 2020, 08:41:08 PM »
Former Tesla CTO’s battery recycling startup secures funding from Amazon
Quote
“(My vision is a) world where all of the transportation is done by electric vehicles and we have batteries powering a sustainable world. And all of those batteries are able to be recycled and remanufactured many, many times so that we can have a nearly closed-loop,” Straubel said.

This same concept stands just as true in the consumer electronics sector, according to the former Tesla CTO. Straubel remarked that while batteries are bound to degrade with repeated use, the underlying elements that comprise them remain sealed from the environment. This meant that the batteries’ materials, most of which are very valuable, could be broken down and repurposed once more. If this is accomplished, the former Tesla executive believes that mining would not be as necessary anymore.

“There are a phenomenal amount of cell phones in the world that currently are being discarded as trash or thrown into a landfill. It’s a massive, untapped resource. If we can recover 98 or 99% of those materials and reuse them, we don’t need very much new material to keep that whole process running… Even though the battery is internally degraded, all of the same materials are still in there — all of the same atoms of lithium, nickel, and cobalt. You can still harness all of those same materials, but they need to be reprocessed and brought back to a state where they could be used again and built into a new battery,” Straubel remarked.

Reports have indicated that Panasonic initially started a trial run with Redwood to reclaim more than 400 pounds of scrap from Giga Nevada, and the results were so successful that the Japanese firm raised its contract to 2 tons not long after.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-jb-straubel-redwood-materials-gets-amazon-funding/amp/
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NeilT

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1306 on: September 28, 2020, 11:44:09 AM »
I must admit I did think that Tesla Battery day would warrant an honourable mention here.

They are talking about 3TWh of batteries by 2030 and a target beyond that.

In their battery day they discussed reducing the footprint of the factory by 90% and increasing the output by 7 times.  That sounds like 70 times as many batteries delivered for the same area.

They use raw materials, reduce the water required drastically and can recycle all the waste water they use in production.

They mentioned that the amount of recyclable materials in the batteries was so high that once the world EV fleet was transitioned, battery production would be mostly (can't remember, 90%+) from recycled batteries from the existing fleet.  Meaning mining carbon costs are locked in and don't increase as they do today.

Tesla also presented multiple "blends" of batteries for differing uses.  Including lower, less intense, use and very high intensity use.

Nothing was totally world shaking in its own right, but put together, should Tesla succeed, the entire world of battery production will be turned on its head in 3 years.

I thought that was worth a mention.

Let alone materials, mining, cobalt free batteries, Lithium from the US for the entire fleet.

There were so many announcements, analysts are still reviewing the livestream to understand just how big the impact is.

Tesla also talked about 3TWh by 2030, but had a price against 20TWh.  To put that into context, 3TWh would produce about 2/3 of the worlds EV requirement at current ~90m vehicle load.  Granted Tesla won't use all these batteries for EV's, but it still puts it into the right frame.  That is one company producing enough batteries to replace 2/3 of the world vehicle production every year.

That has to be pretty momentous.

Any bets on whether they make it or not?  Or whether they exceed their target or timeline?
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KiwiGriff

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1307 on: September 29, 2020, 07:41:17 PM »
Quote
Any bets on whether they make it or not?  Or whether they exceed their target or timeline?
I do not think Tesla will reach its goals on time or to the extent proposed .
It does not matter. even half of the proposed  3TWh is a significant market share.
Tesla is only one player in a rapidly developing technology.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1308 on: September 29, 2020, 08:02:08 PM »
Quote
Any bets on whether they make it or not?  Or whether they exceed their target or timeline?
I do not think Tesla will reach its goals on time or to the extent proposed .
It does not matter. even half of the proposed  3TWh is a significant market share.
Tesla is only one player in a rapidly developing technology.
and the "pour encourager les autres" effect?
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crandles

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1309 on: September 29, 2020, 09:23:15 PM »

Tesla also talked about 3TWh by 2030, but had a price against 20TWh. 

Any bets on whether they make it or not?  Or whether they exceed their target or timeline?

Please correct me if I am wrong: I thought 20TWh per year was estimated worldwide demand for complete electrification of transport, possibly rising to 30TWh. The 3TWh per year figure being what they were proposing/aiming to make from 1 factory. Probably want at least 1 factory per continent same as for cars? Elon time makes 2023 for 3TWh/year optimistic but even if they miss it by a year or two but then soon have factories in US, China and Berlin then you have to wonder if they can get to a monopoly situation.

 > "pour encourager les autres" effect?
If Musk succeeds, say only a year or 2 longer than suggested 3 years and most of the improvements largely achieved, I can't see others being able to compete. In the meantime I think it will stifle investments by others that will just be hoping these aims turn out to be impossible mirages.  That isn't the usual result with Musk, late maybe but eventual success is more like the usual result. Would you invest large amounts of money to compete against Musk?


If they were to get to an effective monopoly situation, would greedy shareholders suddenly change company aims from aiding sustainable transition to making profits?

swoozle

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1310 on: September 30, 2020, 04:29:25 AM »
So Tesla may be able to manufacture 10% of the worldwide demand. 90% of a market still seems like a worthwhile target for other battery makers.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1311 on: September 30, 2020, 06:17:44 AM »
Yip
But
Wake up call
Go hard or go home
Tesla is not a car company
It is a leading technology company
To compete you must keep up
That goes for batteries cars and energy
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NeilT

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1312 on: September 30, 2020, 11:12:07 AM »
Please correct me if I am wrong: I thought 20TWh per year was estimated worldwide demand for complete electrification of transport, possibly rising to 30TWh. The 3TWh per year figure being what they were proposing/aiming to make from 1 factory.

Yes they had priced 20TWh, to replace worldwide annual demand with EV's.  But my take was the 3TWh was the expected output of all Tesla factories, not just one, by 2030.

If you look at the presentation again, we are told they can reduce the footprint of the factory by 90% AND increase output 7 times.  70 times as many batteries from the same size of factory.  Or it seemed that way.  Perhaps they were saying that reducing the size of the machines to 1/10th would increase the output 7 times for the same size of factory.  But it did not seem that way.  The density of the charging structure, treating it like a bottling factory, reducing speed  humps by removing the tags on the anode and cathode; not to mention dry cell manufacture which removes the drying process.  All sounds a lot more like revolution rather than evolution.

I'm not sure how Tesla calculated that 20TWh.  As far as I can see if 100m vehicles all had 100kwh batteries, that would take 10TWh  (please tell me I didn't get the decimal point in the wrong place).  So 20TWh would have to have some serious assumptions for semi's, trucks and grid scale power.

3TWh of batteries will produce around 40m LR variants.  Also there will be a smaller model and I would expect the smaller model to be a larger part of Tesla sales.  So, assuming the smaller model has a smaller battery than the current SR+ versions, then it will do tens of millions more vehicles.

True, Cybertruck may have a 200KWh battery and there is the Semi.  But it seems to leave enough space for some serous expansion of grid scale power, even at a 20m vehicle target.  Every year expansion of grid scale power at that.

I wouldn't say  "pour encourager les autres" was the right analogy. More "Root hog or die".
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1313 on: September 30, 2020, 03:12:34 PM »
Reflex Research (@ReflexFunds) 9/22/20, 9:00 PM
If the timeline wasn't clear:
The Pilot line is in production now & they expect it to take a year to ramp to design capacity of 10GWh (many upgrades & challenges on the way).
They aim to build capacity of 200GWh by 2022 & 3,000 GWh by 2030 (enough for 55 million SR+ Model 3s).

https://twitter.com/reflexfunds/status/1308571791749677056
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crandles

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1314 on: September 30, 2020, 03:47:45 PM »
Haven't watched it again but you are probably right.

Seem to recall current US facility at 0.15TWh. 7* output would be 1TWh from 1 factory and 3 factories to get up to 3TWh. So 90% space saved would presumably be used for something else.

crandles

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1315 on: September 30, 2020, 04:16:41 PM »
There is a transcript at https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/tesla-2020-battery-day-transcript-september-22

Quote
Elon Musk: (02:09:05)
Definitely. Yeah. So we’re able to, from a volume standpoint, actually get what, in a smaller form factor than Giga Nevada, we’re able to get many times the cell output. So you can see basically we can get a terawatt hour in less space than it took to make a gigawatt hour, 150 gigawatt hours. So this is pretty profound. I would actually not have thought this was possible several years ago, that we could actually get to a terawatt scale in less space than what we currently envisioned for doing 150 gigawatt hours.

Drew Baglino: (02:09:48)
Yes. Simpler accelerates terawatt scale. And that’s what we need to do to accelerate our mission. And as Elon said, we’re going to try to even improve on this as we push towards our goals, which are…

Elon Musk: (02:10:02)
Yeah. So this is just talking about Tesla internal cell production. As I tweeted out earlier, we will continue to use our cell suppliers, Panasonic and LG and CATL. And so this is a hundred gigawatt hours supplemental to what we buy from suppliers. And yeah, essentially, this does reduce our weighted average cost of a sale, but it allows us to make a lot more cars and a lot more stationary storage. And then long-term, we’re expecting to make on the order of a 3000 gigawatt hours or three terawatt hours per year. I think we’ve got a good chance of achieving this actually before 2030, but I’m highly confident that we could do it by 2030.

A little later

Quote
Drew Baglino: (02:34:17)
All right. So stacking it up. We’re not just talking about cost or range. We’ve got to look at all the facets. So range increase, we’re unlocking up to 54% increase in range for our vehicles and energy density for our energy products. 56% reduction in dollars per kilowatt hour at the battery pack level, and a 69% reduction in investment per gigawatt hour, which is the true enabler when we talk back about how do we achieve this scale problem here.

..
Elon Musk: (02:35:03)
I mean, 0.420%, of course. So what this enables us to do is achieve a new trajectory in the reduction of cell cost. And now to be clear, it will take us probably a year to 18 months to start realizing these advantages and to fully realize the advantages probably it’s about three years or thereabouts.

So is it 2030 or is it 3 years or maybe 2030 = three years or thereabouts in Elon time  ;) :P

NeilT

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1316 on: September 30, 2020, 05:02:38 PM »
Sounds like 2 years, at the outside, to 200GWh and another eight years to expand that to 3000GWh.

Somewhere along the line, Tesla's current battery suppliers will need to find another client.  Or Tesla will have to start producing about 50 million cars/trucks/semi's and expand grid scale battery battery exponentially to consume its own batteries as well as others.

It is not surprising Auto analysts got it wrong when they didn't hear that Tesla had a 1m mile battery, 20,000 cycles, with 400wh/kg, charging in 15 minutes; shipping yesterday.

The actual story is more important than that.
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Yuha

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1317 on: October 01, 2020, 06:20:43 PM »
Experts react to Tesla Battery Day: Highlights, hype and honking horns
28 Sep 2020
https://www.energy-storage.news/blogs/experts-react-tesla-battery-day-highlights-hype-and-honking-horns

Quote
“One very significant information was the claim that Tesla alone will produce 3,000GWh (or 3TWh) of batteries by 2030,” Johan Soderbom, thematic leader for energy storage at EIT InnoEnergy said.

“This is more or less the same number that today is predicted for the entire global battery industry.”

Experts react to Tesla Battery Day: The key technology takeaways
30 Sep 2020
https://www.energy-storage.news/blogs/experts-react-to-tesla-battery-day-the-key-technology-takeaways

Quote
“What I really liked about this Battery Day, being a battery scientist, is how they had this hands-on approach of solving actual problems,” Dr Kai-Philipp Kairies, CEO of ACCURE, a battery intelligence data analytics platform provider, says.

[...]

“It’s all plausible: these five or six fields in which they want to improve their batteries in terms of form factor, in terms of adding silicon to the anode, in terms of dry-coating and such. These are all technologies that have been around for a couple of years and so I do see a very high probability that they will eventually get all the pieces together.

“It might take a year or two longer than anticipated but generally from a scientific point of view, it all makes sense - but implementing it of course is difficult, especially in mass production. But if you have the right people and enough money to even go through maybe two or three trials that don’t work from the start, but you can just iterate until it works, I think it’s very feasible what they’ve planned.”

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1318 on: October 01, 2020, 07:44:43 PM »
Here’s the slide from the Battery Day presentation:

“The Plan
100GWh in 2022
3 TWh by 2030”

I guess it depends on how quickly the future Tesla terafactories come on line.
I wonder if Tesla plans a lithium processing facility near the Piedmont Lithium mine in North Carolina.  We know Musk has mentioned a future vehicle factory in the U.S. east coast....
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vox_mundi

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1319 on: October 02, 2020, 06:47:31 PM »
Physicists Build Circuit that Generates Clean, Limitless Power from Graphene
https://phys.org/news/2020-10-physicists-circuit-limitless-power-graphene.html
https://news.uark.edu/articles/54830/physicists-build-circuit-that-generates-clean-limitless-power-from-graphene



A team of University of Arkansas physicists has successfully developed a circuit capable of capturing graphene's thermal motion and converting it into an electrical current.

"An energy-harvesting circuit based on graphene could be incorporated into a chip to provide clean, limitless, low-voltage power for small devices or sensors," said Paul Thibado, professor of physics and lead researcher in the discovery.

The findings, published in the journal Physical Review E, are proof of a theory the physicists developed at the U of A three years ago that freestanding graphene—a single layer of carbon atoms—ripples and buckles in a way that holds promise for energy harvesting.

The idea of harvesting energy from graphene is controversial because it refutes physicist Richard Feynman's well-known assertion that the thermal motion of atoms, known as Brownian motion, cannot do work. Thibado's team found that at room temperature the thermal motion of graphene does in fact induce an alternating current (AC) in a circuit, an achievement thought to be impossible.

In the 1950s, physicist Léon Brillouin published a landmark paper refuting the idea that adding a single diode, a one-way electrical gate, to a circuit is the solution to harvesting energy from Brownian motion. Knowing this, Thibado's group built their circuit with two diodes for converting AC into a direct current (DC). With the diodes in opposition allowing the current to flow both ways, they provide separate paths through the circuit, producing a pulsing DC current that performs work on a load resistor.



Additionally, they discovered that their design increased the amount of power delivered. "We also found that the on-off, switch-like behavior of the diodes actually amplifies the power delivered, rather than reducing it, as previously thought," said Thibado. "The rate of change in resistance provided by the diodes adds an extra factor to the power." ...  "In proving this power enhancement, we drew from the emergent field of stochastic thermodynamics and extended the nearly century-old, celebrated theory of Nyquist," said coauthor Pradeep Kumar, associate professor of physics and coauthor.

The team's next objective is to determine if the DC current can be stored in a capacitor for later use, a goal that requires miniaturizing the circuit and patterning it on a silicon wafer, or chip. If millions of these tiny circuits could be built on a 1-millimeter by 1-millimeter chip, they could serve as a low-power battery replacement.

P. M. Thibado, et.al, Fluctuation-induced current from freestanding graphene, Physical Review E, (2020)
https://journals.aps.org/pre/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevE.102.042101
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1320 on: October 19, 2020, 09:13:13 PM »
Tesla installs Canada’s Biggest Battery Energy Storage System
October 17, 2020
Quote
Tesla has a reputation for installing large-scale battery energy storage systems (BESS) worldwide to help with the transition to sustainable energy. Its most recent project is in the Canadian province of Alberta, where Tesla has installed the country’s largest BESS with the help of TD Asset Management.

The project consists of “up to 60 MW of Tesla Megapack Batteries, providing energy balancing and grid frequency regulation services that support Alberta’s growth in sustainable energy,” a press release from TD Asset Management said.

The project started in September 2020, with TD providing its initial investment to bring the first 20 MW battery storage project to the site in Alberta. It is set to be operational by December 2020. It will ultimately be managed by the TD Greystone Infrastructure Fund’s power investment platform, known as WCSB Power Holdings LP, who will construct and operate the final two 20 MW Megapacks.

Ultimately, the goal of most BESS projects is to alleviate the stress on the grid, which is usually powered by less-sustainable sources of power. According to the Canadian Energy Regulator, 91% of electricity is produced from fossil fuels in Alberta. “Approximately 43% from coal and 49% from natural gas. The remaining 8% is produced from renewables, such as wind, hydro, and biomass,” the analysis said.

In times of high energy consumption, the grid can have too much stress upon it and can cause homes or businesses to experience power outages. When this occurs, a backup is needed to keep the lights on. Usually, BESS projects are where the bottleneck is solved. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-canada-biggest-battery-energy-storage-system/
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1321 on: November 06, 2020, 03:26:25 PM »
Australian states and utilities go bananas over big battery storage
6 November 2020
https://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-states-and-utilities-go-bananas-over-big-battery-storage-62626/

Quote
At 300MW and 450MWh, the Victorian Big Battery will be more than double the size of the recently expanded Tesla big battery at Hornsdale, also owned and operated by Neoen, and it will be one of the biggest in the world. But more importantly, it is just the latest of more than a dozen big battery projects to be formally announced in the last few months, with many more in the pipeline.

This week the Northern Territory Labor government opened the formal tender process for its 35MW Darwin big battery (with about half an hour storage) that will displace significant amounts of gas generation and allow for more rooftop and utility scale solar.

The South Australia government this week signed a 10 year electricity supply deal with Zen Energy that will see the 100MW and 100MWh Playford big battery built near Port Augusta , along with the 280MW Cultana solar farm at Whyalla.

Last week, Transgrid announced it would build a 50MW and 75MWh big battery at Wallgrove in western Sydney, which will provide synthetic inertia and other important grid services, and will be operated by Infigen Energy and which will also serve to “firm” up that company’s wind portfolio.

Last month, the Western Australia government announced a 100MW and 2000MWh big battery to be built near Kwinana, again helping displace gas generation and reducing the wear and tear on ageing fossil fuel generators as they cope with the increasing amounts of rooftop solar and large scale wind and solar.

The NSW government in August announced it would support the construction of four new big batteries, including a 30MW battery at the Sapphire renewable energy hub,  a 50MW battery at the proposed New England solar farm, a 12MW battery thought to be slated for Goldwind’s Gullen Range wind and solar hub, and 6MW of distributed batteries aggregated into a virtual power plant.

Another two big batteries may also be supported by the NSW government, depending on the outcome of feasibility studies.

The ACT government in September announced two new big batteries will be built as a result of its latest tender to push it beyond 100 per cent renewables as it seeks to electricity transport and buildings and further reduce emissions. They are a 50MW battery with two hours storage from Neoen and a 10MW/20MWh battery from Global Power Generation.

The re-elected ACT Labor government has also committed to building a 250MW big battery in Canberra to boost its own local network, and increase the amount of wind and solar power produced under contract that is matched with its usage.

Quote
AGL has contracted Maoneng to build 200MW and 400MWh of big batteries in NSW, including one at the Sunraysia solar farm, and is already building a 100MW and 150MWh big battery to be positioned next to the proposed Wandoan solar farm in Queensland, and has flagged a big battery of up to 500MW at the site of the soon to be closed Liddell coal generator.

In all, AGL plans up to 1,200MW of battery storage by 2024, and heralded the “dawn” of the battery age, which it describes as a “game changer” for the grid.

Origin Energy is also looking at five different battery storage possibilities, including at up to four of its existing fossil fuel generators, and a separate 300MW project at Morgans in South Australia, but says the plans are hostage to federal government market intervention, and particularly its controversial, and secretive, Underwriting New Generation Investment scheme. Infigen has echoed those complaints.

Alinta and Fortescue are looking at more big batteries in the expanded Pilbara grid that will supply most of the  big iron ore mining operations in the region and enough solar capacity to power the operations during daytime hours. Alinta already operates the highly successful 30MW/12MWh Newman battery, which is delivering a payback of less than five years, and making the local grid more reliable.

And, of course, there is the biggest proposal of them all – the massive 20GWh (gigawatt hour) battery to go with the proposed Sun Cable solar farm in the Northern Territory that could deliver power to Singapore via an undersea cable more than 3,700km long.

Quote
And let’s not forget the tens of thousands of small batteries being installed at an increasingly rapid rate by households and businesses to store rooftop solar and deliver increased resilience and standalone power, and which are also being aggregated in an increasing number of ever larger virtual power plants which will play an important role in the grid.

Quote
Costs of battery storage are coming down. Neoen’s Australian boss Louis de Sambucy said this week that the Victorian big battery will be 15 per cent lower per megawatt hour than just two years ago, and the costs are still falling.

And they are versatile, with one big battery able to perform multiple different functions, including increasing capacity on transmission links, providing emergency security response, frequency control, synthetic inertia, and also simply as a storage device, charging at times of low prices and discharging at times of peak demand, when prices usually rise.

In all, there are about 20 different services in the battery storage “value pack”. But as Neoen’s de Sambucy notes: “They can do a lot of things that are not fully recognised by the market because the marketplace was designed in a certain way.

Archimid

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1322 on: November 09, 2020, 10:55:22 AM »
You know what happens to countries that beat challenges like pandemics... glory. Go Australia!
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1323 on: December 01, 2020, 06:14:45 PM »
The UK is ramping up big battery installations.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Britain-Bets-Big-On-Battery-Storage.html

Quote
Britain Bets Big On Battery Storage
By Michael Kern - Nov 30, 2020

The UK Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) has approved the construction of the biggest battery storage project in the UK, and one of the largest such projects in the world, the company developing the site said on Monday.

InterGen, an energy company headquartered in Edinburgh, has received the green light to build the US$267 million (£200 million) project in southern England. The project is expected to provide at least 320MW/640MWh of capacity, with the potential to expand to 1.3GWh – more than ten times the size of the largest battery currently in operation in the UK and set to be one of the world’s largest, InterGen said.

Quote
InterGen is also exploring the option to develop another large battery project at its site in Spalding, Lincolnshire, which would be 175MW / 350MWh. The planning permissions are already in place for the project in Lincolnshire in east England.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1324 on: January 15, 2021, 10:20:43 AM »


https://clearpath.org/energy-101/supply-chain-for-lithium-and-critical-minerals-is-critical/



The Battery and Critical Mineral Recycling Act of 2020 (S.3356) and the Department of Energy’s Lithium-Ion Battery Recycling Prize of 2019 aim to improve recycling R&D and incentivize creation of domestic recycling centers

Only one U.S. company, Retriev Technologies Inc.34,35 recycles lithium metal and lithium-ion batteries at its facilities in British Columbia and Lancaster, Ohio.,

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1325 on: January 15, 2021, 11:28:18 AM »
Conflicting info on that.

https://www.marketsandmarkets.com/Market-Reports/lithium-ion-battery-recycling-market-153488928.html#:~:text=Key%20Market%20Players,lithium%2Dion%20battery%20recycling%20market.

Quote
Key Market Players
Umicore (Belgium), Glencore International AG (Switzerland), International Metals Reclamation Company, LLC /INMETCO (US), Retriev Technologies (US), and Raw Materials Company (Canada) are some of the leading players operating in the lithium-ion battery recycling market. These players have adopted the expansions, acquisitions, divestments, collaborations, and joint ventures strategies to enhance their positions in the market.

Plus a bit more detail.

https://www.mdpi.com/2313-0105/5/4/68/htm

Quote
Due to the broad number of emerging technologies reported in the literature, those chosen include those in pilot plant stages, under permitting procedure, under commercialization, or that have produced several patents. The technologies chosen clearly support towards the CE philosophy by offering a broad range of recovered LIB material components. Hence, this review encompassed the following recycling technologies:
Established: Umicore Valéas™ (Umicore, Bruxelles, Belgium), Retriev Technologies (Retriev), Recupyl Valibat (Recupyl), Akkuser, and Sumitomo–Sony (Sumitomo).
Emerging: LithoRec, Accurec, Battery Resources, Steven Loop: OnTo Technology (OnTo), Aalto University Process.
Other industrial processes accepting LIBs: BatRec, Inmetco, and Glencore.

This seems to be very much emerging business.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1326 on: February 02, 2021, 01:16:06 AM »
Tesla’s “tabless” 4680 cells:  operating temperatures
Quote
Chansoo Byeon (@ByeonChansoo)2/1/21, 6:38 PM
4680
"Using Tesla's proposed tabless design results in much more homogenous local current density and reduced ohmic losses along the length of the current collectors. This leads to only a 20 degree rise above ambient, some 60 degrees less"
https://twitter.com/byeonchansoo/status/1356386593498656769

The Limiting Factor (@LimitingThe) 2/1/21, 6:33 PM

Research already starting to come out on the tabless 4680, or what the researchers call a 'contiguous array' of current collectors. Attached image is heat maps comparing the two.
iopscience.iop.org/article/10.114…

https://twitter.com/limitingthe/status/1356385212637224960
⬇️ Image below. Click to embiggen. Compare the *scales* of the results, not just the colors! :o
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gerontocrat

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1327 on: February 11, 2021, 09:26:02 PM »
Big batteries now competitive even when not linked to solar or wind farms.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/plus-power-breaks-open-new-england-market-for-massive-batteries
Plus Power Breaks Open Market for Massive Batteries in New England
Large standalone battery plants had not succeeded in New England’s capacity market. Until now.

Quote
Battery plants have established themselves in the sunny Southwest, but this week was the first time they won big in New England.

San Francisco-based developer Plus Power won two bids in the latest capacity auction held by the New England ISO, which operates the transmission grid and competitive power markets in six Northeastern states. That means that these two battery plants offered a compelling enough price to edge out some fossil fuel plants for delivering power on demand. And they did it without any help from federal tax credits because none of them apply to standalone batteries.

Plus Power now needs to build the plants: a 150-megawatt/300-megawatt-hour system near a cranberry bog south of Boston, Massachusetts and a 175-megawatt/350-megawatt-hour battery in Gorham, Maine. The seven-year capacity contracts start in June 2024.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 09:32:21 PM by gerontocrat »
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gerontocrat

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1328 on: February 11, 2021, 09:32:02 PM »
& here is an article from of all places - The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists

Has a list of new big batteries in the pipeline

https://thebulletin.org/2021/01/big-batteries-boost-renewables/
“Big batteries” boost renewables
Quote
The twin smokestacks of the Moss Landing Power Plant tower over Monterey Bay. Visible for miles along this picturesque stretch of the Northern California coast, the 500-foot-tall pillars crown what was once California’s largest electric power station—a behemoth natural gas-fired generator. Today, as California steadily moves to decarbonize its economy, those stacks are idle and the plant is largely mothballed. Instead, the site is about to begin a new life as the world’s largest battery, storing excess energy when solar panels and wind farms are producing electricity and feeding it back into the grid when they’re not.

Inside a cavernous turbine building, a 300-megawatt lithium-ion battery is currently being readied for operation, with another 100-megawatt battery to come online in 2021. Together, they will be able to discharge enough electricity to power roughly 300,000 California homes for four hours during evenings, heatwaves, and other times when energy demand outstrips supply, according to project developer Vistra Energy.

These aren’t the only super-sized batteries that will soon be operating at the Moss Landing plant. An additional 182.5 megawatts produced by 256 Tesla megapack batteries are scheduled to begin feeding into California’s electric grid in mid-2021, with plans to eventually add enough capacity at the site to power every home in nearby San Francisco for six hours, according to the Bay Area utility, Pacific Gas & Electric, which will own and operate the system. Elsewhere in California, a 250-megawatt storage project went online this year in San Diego, construction has begun on a 150-megawatt system near San Francisco, a 100-megawatt battery project is nearing completion in Long Beach, and a number of others are in various stages of development around the state.

Driven by steeply falling prices and technological progress that allows batteries to store ever-larger amounts of energy, grid-scale systems are seeing record growth in the United States and around the world. Many of the gains are spillovers from the auto industry’s race to build smaller, cheaper, and more powerful lithium-ion batteries for electric cars. In the United States, state clean energy mandates, along with tax incentives for storage systems that are paired with solar installations, are also playing an important role.

California is currently the global leader in the effort to balance the intermittency of renewable energy in electric grids with high-capacity batteries. But the rest of the world is rapidly following suit. Recently announced plans range from a 409-megawatt system in South Florida, to a 320-megawatt plant near London, England, to a 200-megawatt facility in Lithuania and a 112-megawatt unit in Chile.

The mass deployment of storage could overcome one of the biggest obstacles to renewable energy—its cycling between oversupply when the sun shines or the wind blows, and shortage when the sun sets or the wind drops. By smoothing imbalances between supply and demand, proponents say, batteries can replace fossil fuel “peaker” plants that kick in for a few hours a day when energy demands soar. Experts say that widespread energy storage is key to expanding the reach of renewables and speeding the transition to a carbon-free power grid.

“Energy storage is actually the true bridge to a clean-energy future,” says Bernadette Del Chiaro, executive director of the California Solar and Storage Association.
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1329 on: February 28, 2021, 12:46:50 AM »
Australia
Tesla Picked As “Victoria Big Battery” Supplier
Fossil fuel interests are unhappy with the project
Quote
This week, Neoen announced that Tesla will supply the batteries for the new 300 MW/450 MWh Victoria Big Battery and that Australia’s Clean Energy Finance Corporation has agreed to supply $160 million in funding for the project. Louis de Sambucy, managing partner for Neoen Australia, told the press, “We are delighted to announce that the Victorian Big Battery has reached this important financial milestone. I would like to thank the CEFC for their renewed trust and commitment towards supporting innovative storage solutions. We are on track to deliver this project before the next Australian summer and are looking forward to playing our part in helping Victoria reach its ambitious target of 50% renewable energy by 2030.” ...
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/27/tesla-picked-as-victoria-big-battery-supplier/amp/
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1330 on: March 01, 2021, 12:09:55 AM »
EIA has been slowing release of data about falling renewable prices especially batteries. While batteries deployments are accelerating they would be doing much better if more information was available about cost. Claims about batteries being cheaper than peaker turbines have been made it would be nice to get 2020 information on the subject.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1331 on: March 01, 2021, 01:17:49 AM »
EIA has been slowing release of data about falling renewable prices especially batteries. While batteries deployments are accelerating they would be doing much better if more information was available about cost. Claims about batteries being cheaper than peaker turbines have been made it would be nice to get 2020 information on the subject.

Lazard do a levelized cost of storage
https://www.lazard.com/media/451566/lazards-levelized-cost-of-storage-version-60-vf2.pdf

as well as their levelized cost of energy report (dated Oct 2020)
https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-and-levelized-cost-of-storage-2020/

seems harder to get to grips with storage but there is a long duration storage case which seems to be showing costs from $141 to $284 per MWh while the levelized cost of storage has gas peaking at $142 to $206.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1332 on: March 04, 2021, 02:46:30 PM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― anonymous

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1333 on: March 04, 2021, 02:52:56 PM »
GM Looking to Build 2nd US Battery Factory, Tennessee Likely
https://www.yourcentralvalley.com/news/business/gm-looking-to-build-2nd-us-battery-factory-tennessee-likely/amp/

DETROIT (AP) — General Motors says it’s looking for a site to build a second U.S. battery factory with joint venture partner LG Chem of Korea.

The companies hope to have a decision on a site in the first half of the year, spokesman Dan Flores said Thursday.

Flores would not say where the company is looking, but it’s likely to be near GM’s Spring Hill, Tennessee, factory complex, which is one of three sites the company has designated to build electric vehicles.

A joint venture between GM and LG Chem currently is building a $2 billion battery factory in Lordstown, Ohio, near Cleveland, that will employ about 1,000 people. The site is fairly close to GM’s two other designated electric vehicle plants, one in Detroit and the other north of the city in Orion Township, Michigan.

GM is likely to need far more battery capacity if it’s able to deliver on a goal of converting all of its new passenger vehicles from internal combustion engines to electricity by 2035.

LG Chem now has a battery cell plant in Holland, Michigan, that supplies power to the Chevrolet Bolt hatchback and the new Bolt electric SUV.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1334 on: April 09, 2021, 12:40:09 PM »
You never know what might be coming from left field.
When I first saw the headline I thought - April Fool.

https://www.electrichybridvehicletechnology.com/news/battery-technology/researchers-discover-breakthrough-massless-battery-technology-for-electric-vehicles.html
Researchers discover ‘breakthrough’ massless battery technology for electric vehicles

Quote
Researchers from Chalmers University of Technology have produced a structural battery that performs ten times better than all previous versions. It contains carbon fiber that serves simultaneously as an electrode, conductor, and load-bearing material. Their latest research breakthrough paves the way for essentially ’massless’ energy storage in vehicles and other technology.

The batteries in today’s electric cars constitute a large part of the vehicles’ weight, without fulfilling any load-bearing function. A structural battery, on the other hand, is one that works as both a power source and as part of the structure – for example, in a car body. This is termed ‘massless’ energy storage, because in essence the battery’s weight vanishes when it becomes part of the load-bearing structure. Calculations show that this type of multifunctional battery could greatly reduce the weight of an electric vehicle.

The development of structural batteries at Chalmers University of Technology has proceeded through many years of research, including previous discoveries involving certain types of carbon fiber. In addition to being stiff and strong, they also have a good ability to store electrical energy chemically. This work was named by Physics World as one of 2018’s ten biggest scientific breakthroughs.

The first attempt to make a structural battery was made as early as 2007, but it has so far proven difficult to manufacture batteries with both good electrical and mechanical properties.

But now the development has taken a real step forward, with researchers from Chalmers, in collaboration with KTH Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm, presenting a structural battery with properties that far exceed anything yet seen, in terms of electrical energy storage, stiffness and strength. Its multifunctional performance is ten times higher than previous structural battery prototypes.

The battery has an energy density of 24 Wh/kg, meaning approximately 20 percent capacity compared to comparable lithium-ion batteries currently available. But since the weight of the vehicles can be greatly reduced, less energy will be required to drive an electric car, for example, and lower energy density also results in increased safety. And with a stiffness of 25 GPa, the structural battery can really compete with many other commonly used construction materials.

“Previous attempts to make structural batteries have resulted in cells with either good mechanical properties, or good electrical properties. But here, using carbon fiber, we have succeeded in designing a structural battery with both competitive energy storage capacity and rigidity,” explained Leif Asp, Professor at Chalmers and leader of the project.

The new battery has a negative electrode made of carbon fiber, and a positive electrode made of a lithium iron phosphate-coated aluminum foil. They are separated by a fiberglass fabric, in an electrolyte matrix. Despite their success in creating a structural battery ten times better than all previous ones, the researchers did not choose the materials to try and break records – rather, they wanted to investigate and understand the effects of material architecture and separator thickness.

Now, a new project, financed by the Swedish National Space Agency, is underway, where the performance of the structural battery will be increased yet further. The aluminum foil will be replaced with carbon fiber as a load-bearing material in the positive electrode, providing both increased stiffness and energy density. The fiberglass separator will be replaced with an ultra-thin variant, which will give a much greater effect – as well as faster charging cycles. The new project is expected to be completed within two years.

Leif Asp, who is leading this project too, estimates that such a battery could reach an energy density of 75 Wh/kg and a stiffness of 75 GPa. This would make the battery about as strong as aluminum, but with a comparatively much lower weight.

“The next generation structural battery has fantastic potential. If you look at consumer technology, it could be quite possible within a few years to manufacture smartphones, laptops or electric bicycles that weigh half as much as today and are much more compact,” said Asp.

And in the longer term, it is absolutely conceivable that electric cars, electric planes and satellites will be designed with and powered by structural batteries.

“We are really only limited by our imaginations here. We have received a lot of attention from many different types of companies in connection with the publication of our scientific articles in the field. There is understandably a great amount of interest in these lightweight, multifunctional materials,” said Asp.

Coming soon - the carbon-fibre 1 ton Tesla?
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1335 on: April 09, 2021, 02:31:53 PM »
Explicitly in the interest of playing devils advocate, what happens when these massless batteries need replacing?
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1336 on: April 09, 2021, 03:10:37 PM »
Researchers discover ‘breakthrough’ massless battery technology for electric vehicles

Coming soon - the carbon-fibre 1 ton Tesla?

Model Y from Giga Berlin
https://electrek.co/2021/01/19/tesla-structural-battery-pack-first-picture/

gerontocrat

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1337 on: April 09, 2021, 05:07:18 PM »
Explicitly in the interest of playing devils advocate, what happens when these massless batteries need replacing?

"Nit-picker" he scornfully replied. "It will be a good few years before that small problem needs to be sorted out."

Translation "Not a goddam clue."
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1338 on: April 09, 2021, 08:34:59 PM »
I remember sitting in a hospital in the early 90's looking for reading material.  One of the articles was about how a company had decided that the Intel processor was fundamentally inefficient in the way that it processed transactions.

The company spent 3 years developing a totally different processor which was 30% more efficient than the Intel processor at the same speed.

Intel's response was to ramp up processor speeds by 400%.  The much more complicated, but more efficient, processor could not speed up at the same rate as Intel.  So Intel completely won the race and I can't even find a reference to the company concerned.

If you go back and look at these structural batteries (and the article), it says that a major breakthrough has brought power density up to 75 Wh/kg.  Yet current technology is nearer 250Wh/kg and is aiming for 500 Wh/Kg.

Even if the structural battery were to reach 100Wh/kg, it would remain a niche product for a niche market whilst cars, busses, ships, trains and planes would take off with more traditional batteries.

The attempt is laudable but without a much larger breakthrough, I can't see these batteries making it to the mainstream.
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1339 on: April 10, 2021, 01:31:34 AM »
I'm not sure that this is necessarily either/or. 

A main battery augmented by a structural battery appears to offer the best of both worlds.  Lower weight and greater storage, particularly in more sensitive applications.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1340 on: April 10, 2021, 01:56:14 AM »
I'm not sure that this is necessarily either/or. 

A main battery augmented by a structural battery appears to offer the best of both worlds.  Lower weight and greater storage, particularly in more sensitive applications.

Yes.  I try to imagine how structural batteries could be incorporated into an auto, and I can only think of several specific elements.  Not nothing, but a not a whole power regime for a vehicle.

On the other hand, bicycle frames have mostly straight, cylindrical elements.  This approach seems ideal for an electric bicycle that might replace most bikes, and even motorcycles.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1341 on: April 10, 2021, 04:13:11 AM »
The road to commercialization is long and full of mostly failures. While many ideas just are not feasible some better ideas die just because they do not have an aggressive advocate or enough seed money or just poor timing. These types of announcements usually only focus on the positive and not the negative. Statistically Lab announcements are bound to fail. When I read them it is interesting to learn about the new approach but I do not expect to see a successful product on the market. Announcements of pilot/low volume production are usually failures when not backed by an experienced industry player. Even from experienced industry players new product failures are common.


Such a small fraction of Lab successes lead to products that failure  :'( should be assumed and to me speculation of real world impacts sound terribly naïve and criticisms sound true but are stating the obvious. ::)  I still like to learn about them.  ;D



NeilT

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1342 on: April 11, 2021, 11:53:24 AM »
I like to learn about them too.  Edison would tell you that we learn by our mistakes and we are trying to learn.

Even if this fails, what was learned is there for others to build on and, maybe, some day, this research will open a whole new avenue of research.

In the 1950's the USA put vast amounts of effort into nuclear weapons research.  The USSR put vast amounts of efforts into pure and applied maths. The USSR effort turned out to be the faster route to truly portable fission weapons.  Even though the USA made the first fission weapon itself.

Battery research has to continue as it will be one of the mainstays of our civilisation going forward.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

Sciguy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1343 on: April 12, 2021, 06:05:05 PM »
Battery storage is now 30% cheaper than gas peaker plants.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/04/12/battery-storage-systems-30-cheaper-than-rival-gas-peaker-plants-for-firming-renewables/

Quote
Battery storage 30% cheaper than gas peaker plants for firming renewables

The contest is over. Faster, cheaper, more flexible than gas turbines – battery energy storage must be the future peaking energy service provider of choice, according to a new paper by Australia’s Clean Energy Council.
April 12, 2021 Natalie Filatoff

Australia's Clean Energy Council (CEC) says in a newly published paper that large-scale battery energy storage has become the best way to spread energy generated by solar and wind throughout any day, and to instantly respond to peak energy needs in the National Electricity Market (NEM) for long and short durations.

The paper compares the levelized cost of energy delivered by a new 250 MW gas peaker plant with 250 MW four-hour and two-hour grid-scale batteries. It finds that overall – when various costs are calculated – that the batteries are 17% (two-hour) and 30% (four-hour) cheaper.

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1344 on: April 13, 2021, 02:51:28 AM »
Battery's are 30% cheaper for 4 hr storage or about 16% capacity factor. This is awesome news. This makes more decarbonization of the grid cheaper than burning fossil fuels. Economics was not the limiting factor before this as the slow and political nature of utilities adapt to improving economics of renewables. Generally for longer operation times a peaker plant just needs more fuel where a battery needs more batteries so batteries get more expensive faster as the number hours of storage increase than peaker plants. I wonder how many hours of storage currently is break even. 5 hrs, 6 hrs? At 8 hrs solar plus batteries could push fossil fuels completely off the grid during summer in the  northern contiguous US. At about 10 hrs storage southern us locations completely replace fossil fuels in summer. At 14 hours the southern US could replace fossil fuels year round. At 16 hours the contiguous US could replace fossil fuels year round. This is a simplified analysis as there are cheaper ways to reduce the storage required below this level this is just an upper limit. 

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1345 on: April 13, 2021, 03:03:26 AM »
I rarely disagree with your excellent analyses interstitial, but I think the above needs a caveat. Even 16 hour storage cannot completely replace fossil fuels year round, as a prolonged period of "bad luck" in wind, cloudiness, rainfall and other parameters over a large enough region can lead to widespread unmet energy needs. So an X amount of storage can replace year round except in rare cases, which would still require fossil fuel backup until some different kind of backup comes along.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1346 on: April 13, 2021, 04:31:53 AM »
I rarely disagree with your excellent analyses interstitial, but I think the above needs a caveat. Even 16 hour storage cannot completely replace fossil fuels year round, as a prolonged period of "bad luck" in wind, cloudiness, rainfall and other parameters over a large enough region can lead to widespread unmet energy needs. So an X amount of storage can replace year round except in rare cases, which would still require fossil fuel backup until some different kind of backup comes along.

I agree.  Bad things start happening quickly when the grid goes down.  The grid needs to function even when renewable sources have a very bad week.  I suspect systems will conclude that peaker plants held in reserve, unused for 90+% of the time, will be needed to assure grid stability.

If utilities have peaker plants sitting mostly idle, this affects the economics of how big a battery it's economical to build.

Down the road, when renewables have been amply overbuilt, excess power can go into, say, hydrogen production, which can be used to operate the peakers. 

crandles

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1347 on: April 13, 2021, 04:55:52 AM »
I agree 16 hour storage won't be able to "completely replace fossil fuels year round" even if we had enough renewables installed.

But I don't think the report is aiming at that and we are nowhere near that point.

To address that problem you need to keep enough peaker plants on stand by ready to go. This is about the other times when we could use either batteries or could use those peaker plants on stand by. And the answer the report is suggesting ......


If battery and gas peaker capital costs are sunk costs then we will use battery as variable costs are lower, & responds faster.

If we have to build (i.e. pay capital costs) both then batteries are cheaper and it is worth installing more than 4 hours of storage because while this will causes higher price per capacity that is worth doing as you get a larger market share and cheaper average cost.

Despite the lower levelised cost toted by the report, if you consider the situation is do we use peaker plants already paid for and on stand by for the rare circumstances where needed or pay to add batteries then the figures the report gives do not seem as encouraging as reported:

Variable costs for peaker plants 65 AUD$/MWH
Levelised cost inc capital cost for 2 hour battery 195 AUD$/MWH
Levelised cost inc capital cost for 4 hour battery 156 AUD$/MWH

Now I think batteries are getting installed. Which could cause us to question the numbers produced. Or perhaps we can explain it as peaker plants charging a lot for their peak electric produced to try to cover their capital costs - perhaps because they are not being paid enough to be on stand by for the rare long windless cloudy times.

While that continues more batteries get installed but at some point there is some bad news. The peaker plants threaten to close down completely unless they are paid a lot more for being on stand by.

Or do others interpret these numbers differently?

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1348 on: April 13, 2021, 05:36:43 AM »
I rarely disagree with your excellent analyses interstitial, but I think the above needs a caveat. Even 16 hour storage cannot completely replace fossil fuels year round, as a prolonged period of "bad luck" in wind, cloudiness, rainfall and other parameters over a large enough region can lead to widespread unmet energy needs. So an X amount of storage can replace year round except in rare cases, which would still require fossil fuel backup until some different kind of backup comes along.
True.. sort of...... not really what I was getting at.
This is more what I was thinking.
Caveat 1: use only solar
Caveat 2: add enough solar that during shortest day of the year it provides enough kw to cover the whole day. Every other day of the year it would produce excess. This is probably 3 or more times more solar than needed on yearly kwh basis.
Caveat 3: ignore clouds
The overall system is complicated and depends on local resources. The final renewable grid will be a complex system of local and regional assets. Energy storage beyond 16 hours will be necessary but  will likely be provided in some other way. Hydrogen seems like a likely candidate. Maybe. Adiabatic compressed air may already be near to economically solving 16 hour storage I do not know. They do not share enough information. I am trying to sort out some of the hype from reality on what a realistic grid looks like and I find it hard to describe the details of what I am finding.
A great deal of expansion of renewables is economic today but there are limits. By the time we make the economic expansions I expect things like batteries to get cheaper to allow more expansion. In California right now solar pushes daytime prices down to nearly $10 a mwh and nightime prices up to $50ish a mwh. While solar is not providing 100% of the daytime power some combined cycle gas plants run through the day at a loss and make up for it at night. Others shut down despite the inefficiency and wear and tear on the plant. Right now evidence of no more than 600 mw of battery storage at any given time. Looking at the graphs most of that is not used to store daytime power for night time use but to provide ancilary services to stabilized the grid. As more is added more will be used for time of day arbitration.

sidd

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1349 on: April 13, 2021, 05:57:11 AM »
Re: " peaker plants threaten to close down completely unless they are paid a lot more for being on stand by."

I believe in the USA there are already payments for both spinning reserve and standby capacity. I think the difference is that the first is immediately available to take excess load (subject to generator ramp limits), the second has dispatch calls every 5 minutes and must come to full power in ten.

sidd