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Author Topic: Latest PIOMAS update (May 2019)  (Read 940551 times)

Klondike Kat

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2600 on: October 25, 2018, 02:19:14 PM »
Climate Change Deniers have been rallying around a cooling Greenland.  Greenland did cool during the later half of the 20th century due to a positive NAO, which brought cooler and wetter weather to parts of Greenland.

Quote
Three major melt events during late July and August brought the 2018 Greenland melt season to a close. Overall, conditions on the ice sheet were slightly warmer than average for the second half of the summer.

 Three significant melt events peaked on July 17, July 31, and August 9. While none of these were exceptional, they were among the highest melt extents for those dates in the satellite record, at or above 500,000 square kilometers (193,000 square miles)—roughly a third of the ice sheet. High atmospheric pressure contributed to the melt events on July 31 and August 9. Strong winds from the southeast were linked to the melt events on July 17 and July 31, and from the southwest on August 9. Surface temperatures during the events were generally 2 to 5 degrees Celsius (4 to 9 degrees Fahrenheit) above the 1981 to 2010 average. Overall, higher-than-average temperatures of 0.5 to 1.2 degrees Celsius (0.9 to 2.2 degrees Fahrenheit) above the 1981 to 2010 mean characterized the second half of summer.
link


As for last year's Arctic report card:

Quote
Surface air temperatures observed on the ice sheet indicated a different pattern than those observed at coastal station, especially during summer 2017. Measurements at twenty coastal weather stations of the Danish Meteorological Institute (DMI) indicate widespread above- or near-average air temperatures for the seasons of autumn 2016 through summer 2017 (relative to the average for the period 1981-2010), with the exception of spring in northeast Greenland. New record highs were set at a number of sites in autumn 2016, with absolute anomalies above +5° C (see Table 1).

This year's Arctic report card comes out in December.

 

I would just like to emphasize that I am not a denier, I think climate change is going to result in widespread + worsening areas of horrible heat, and limited areas of cryospheric crisis (though the balance will, IMO, shift from the former to the latter as we head deeper into CAB BOE). In fact I would assert my outlook is far worse than contemporary consensus on climate change because you are dealing with a simultaneous worsening of BOTH extremes rather than a static shift towards hot, with the increasing gradient between A and B ultimately responsible for the "superstorms" we are now seeing (with breakdown of normal jetstream, oceanic heat distribution to poles is increasingly sporadic and cyclonic -> hence why we see so many Cat 5s now).

bbr,
I do not count you as a denier, and it really irks me that anytime someone presents any scientific evidence that even hints at bucking the establishment gets labelled as such.  Those that do so are not scientists, but activists who cannot see past their own belief system.  Your analysis looks credible.  Keep posting.

psymmo7

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2601 on: October 25, 2018, 03:12:07 PM »
It doesn't really belong in this thread, but a lot of the argument between bbr and others hinges on the speed at which arctic warming is likely to speed up Greenland ice cap melting and  bbr is right that the Greenland ice caps's loss rate hasn't really been dented yet - which certainly doesn't mean that there isn't any climate change, as all the sea ice data presented on this thread shows.

Sam writes of the ice cap being "big and deep" and taking something like "100 - 200" years to go.

I am not sure whether some of the participants of this thread realise just how massive the ice cap is.

With a mass of over 2.6 x 106 Gt at the present annual rate of loss (ca. 3  x 102 Gt /yr), the cap would take ca. 8000 yrs to melt, 40 - 80x longer than the figure mentioned by Sam.

To my way of thinking the rate of the ice cap's loss is going to have to speed up by a factor of 10 to 100 before ice cap loss in itself is going to be a big determining factor in climate change and until that happens - and this is bbr's point - there are a number of negative feedback loops that, at least in the last few years, tend to have slowed down rather than speeded up the rate of Greenland ice cap ice loss.

So the question of what happens next to climate and weather after the likely occurrence of an ice free arctic in summer during the next decade or so remains open to speculation - the effects will probably be as dramatic as bbr thinks, but one scenario that is unlikely is that there will be any really significant change to the mass of the Greenland ice cap, which still has ca. 99.9% of its mass intact compared to 2002.


gerontocrat

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2602 on: October 25, 2018, 03:41:45 PM »
FRAM EXPORT has, I think stopped and even reversed - see Greenland Sea area graph attached
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gerontocrat

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2603 on: October 25, 2018, 04:06:24 PM »
Since off-topic seems to be the flavour of the day, here is some Greenland Data.
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Sam

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2604 on: October 25, 2018, 05:41:08 PM »
As massive as the Greenlarge icecap volume is, it is important to remember that this is not the case of a status quo problem.

Once the Arctic ice is gone, triggering rising Arctic Ocean temperatures that then trigger further collapse of the Siberean tundra, the Yamal peninsula, and the clathrates on the relatively shallow Arctic shelf, with the releases of methane and CO2 totaling over 1,500 gigatons of carbon, completely change the equations.

At that point, atmospheric CO2(e) goes over 1,000 ppm. Atmospheric circulation goes asymmetric and weird with loss of most of the driving force for the three cell circulation of the atmosphere. Heat inputs then from much farther south make it much farther north. And absolutely everything changes.

The full brunt of the warming then bakes the Greenland sheet, as it becomes the last part of the driving force for atmospheric circulation. And the melt rate soars.

It is tempting to try to use linear extrapolations (or even other function extrapolations) of current conditions to assess the effects. But ours isn't the case of minor perturbations of a stable system. Once the Arctic Ocean ice is gone, all bets are off. We are highly likely then I believe to step change to a wholly different system configuration. Many of our accepted ideas and thumbrules will simply no longer apply.

RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2605 on: October 25, 2018, 05:57:52 PM »
Probably better in the whole Greenland section we have!

Were are those blasted forum moderators when you need them? It's almost as if they don't get paid or something.

uniquorn

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2606 on: October 25, 2018, 07:45:46 PM »
FRAM EXPORT has, I think stopped and even reversed - see Greenland Sea area graph attached
Fram export still going. It looks like 2 warm storms knocked the stuffing out of the thinner ice.
jaxa rbg, greenland sea, oct1-24

Neven

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2607 on: October 31, 2018, 08:38:09 PM »
Were are those blasted forum moderators when you need them? It's almost as if they don't get paid or something.

I'm so rich now, I went to Germany and bought a small EV.  ;)

I had to keep scrolling up to see what the subject of this thread was. I've checked. It's about PIOMAS data, not the millions of implications that may or may not be tied to it. That's what the rest of the ASIF is for.
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RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2608 on: October 31, 2018, 08:44:48 PM »
Were are those blasted forum moderators when you need them? It's almost as if they don't get paid or something.

I'm so rich now, I went to Germany and bought a small EV.  ;)

I had to keep scrolling up to see what the subject of this thread was. I've checked. It's about PIOMAS data, not the millions of implications that may or may not be tied to it. That's what the rest of the ASIF is for.

Compounded by my dramatically incorrect use of 'were". Congratulations on the purchase of an EV. It's solar panels for me next year.

Tealight

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2609 on: November 03, 2018, 12:16:53 PM »
For comparison with the upcoming PIOMAS data. Here is my ADS sea ice thickness calculation:
https://sites.google.com/site/cryospherecomputing/amsr2-sea-ice-volume


Sterks

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2610 on: November 03, 2018, 01:34:03 PM »
Hey Tealight, can you put your 2017 curve, for instance, over the 2017 PIOMAS curve in a single graph? Interested to see where they depart from each other in shape rather than overall quantity? I bet your model predicts less volume in summer wrt PIOMAS. PIOMAS always seems to have in summer an inertia that overpredicts thickness in places where satellites show no longer ice or simply scattered floes.

Tealight

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2611 on: November 03, 2018, 09:07:44 PM »
Hey Tealight, can you put your 2017 curve, for instance, over the 2017 PIOMAS curve in a single graph? Interested to see where they depart from each other in shape rather than overall quantity? I bet your model predicts less volume in summer wrt PIOMAS. PIOMAS always seems to have in summer an inertia that overpredicts thickness in places where satellites show no longer ice or simply scattered floes.

I have a graph on my documentation page since 2012.
https://sites.google.com/site/cryospherecomputing/documentation/amsr2-sea-ice-volume-algorithm

You can also download my data from:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16HJIBLuW_9mk6RLmtF6b5SVxBk_LTlow

Most different to PIOMAS is the refreeze season. The thick parts of the Arctic still decrease in thickness and the new ice is of course very thin. So my average thickness is 60-90cm whereas PIOMAS is 90-120cm.

Both are models and it's hard to verify them. Cryosat has thickness measurements, but when you look at their map they leave out all of the new very thin ice, which my model considers. Their thickness plots are similar to PIOMAS so I feel pretty good about mine showing lower thickness than PIOMAS.

http://www.cpom.ucl.ac.uk/csopr/seaice.html?%20show_cell_thk_ts_large=0&ts_area_or_point=all&basin_selected=0&show_basin_thickness=0&thk_period=28&year=2018&season=Spring&select_thk_vol=select_thk

Wipneus

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2612 on: November 04, 2018, 07:42:36 AM »
PIOMAS gridded thickness data has updated. While we are still waiting for the "official" volume data, volume calculated from thickness on 31-Oct was 7.23 [1000km3],  fourth lowest behind 2011, 2012 and 2016.

Here is the October animation.

Wipneus

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2613 on: November 04, 2018, 08:13:31 AM »
The volume and volume-anomaly graphs show that the ice volume growth is currently similar to 2011.

Wipneus

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2614 on: November 04, 2018, 08:18:30 AM »
Fram Strait export, still below the long time monthly average (the grey steps in the background).

Wipneus

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Wipneus

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2616 on: November 04, 2018, 08:38:37 AM »
Thickness map, compared with previous years and the differences.

gerontocrat

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2617 on: November 04, 2018, 11:53:53 AM »
A look at the latest volume using the same methodology as I use for JAXA Sea Ice Extent

PIOMAS / Wipneus Volume Data - 7.229 '000 km3 as at 31st October 2018


Volume is
- 4th lowest for the day in the records going back to 1979,
- 546 km3 (7.0%) below the 2010's average,
- 388 km3 (5.1%) above 2017,
- 812 km3 (12.7%) above 2012,
- 744 km3 (11.5%) above 2016.

Volume gain since maximum is 2,226 km3, some 591 km3 (21.0%) below the average 2010's gain of 2,817 km3, with on average 15.8% of the volume gain done.
_________________________________________________________________________
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
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gerontocrat

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2618 on: November 04, 2018, 12:27:17 PM »
Sort of on topic

The energy required to melt the 16,400 Km3 of ice that are lost every year (1979-2010 average) from April to September as part of the natural annual cycle is 5.0E+21 Joules (or 5x10^21)
(source: Polar Science Center)

By coincidence, the study, “Quantification of ocean heat uptake from changes in atmospheric O2 and CO2 composition,” published in the journal Nature Nov. 1. says that heat taken up by the oceans annually is 13.0E+21 joules,  5.0E+21 joules more than currently measured.

It seems that  current measurements using thermometers only go down to 2000 metres - the top half of the oceans. This additional heat is being stored at depth?

One must hope that that heat stays down there and keeps away from the Arctic (& Antarctic) for a very long time.
_________________________________________________________
One joule is the equivalent of one watt of power radiated or dissipated for one second
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gerontocrat

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2619 on: November 04, 2018, 01:19:14 PM »
And I am still convinced that there is a significant correlation between Fram Export and Greenland Sea Ice Area and Extent.

If Fram Export ever declined towards zero, the Greenland Sea would be largely ice free most of the year with a significant impact on the climate of at least the coastal fringes of the NE quadrant of the Greenland mainland.
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Sterks

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (October mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2620 on: November 04, 2018, 03:05:02 PM »

I have a graph on my documentation page since 2012.
https://sites.google.com/site/cryospherecomputing/documentation/amsr2-sea-ice-volume-algorithm

You can also download my data from:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16HJIBLuW_9mk6RLmtF6b5SVxBk_LTlow

Most different to PIOMAS is the refreeze season. The thick parts of the Arctic still decrease in thickness and the new ice is of course very thin. So my average thickness is 60-90cm whereas PIOMAS is 90-120cm.
[...]
Thank you Tealight!

jdallen

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2621 on: November 05, 2018, 03:36:03 PM »
Thickness map, compared with previous years and the differences.
What I find most disturbing here is the complete absence of 4M+ ice.  We are inching closer to the end of freeze season volume matching annual heat uptake.
This space for Rent.

Wipneus

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2622 on: November 06, 2018, 12:32:52 PM »
Thickness map, compared with previous years and the differences.
What I find most disturbing here is the complete absence of 4M+ ice.  We are inching closer to the end of freeze season volume matching annual heat uptake.

Time to show my PIOMAS thickness distribution. As some may remember, ice in each gridcell in the PIOMAS model is specified as a discrete distribution: there exist 12 categories of ice thickness (m):
[0.00, 0.26, 0.71, 1.46, 2.61, 4.23, 6.39, 9.10, 12.39, 16.24, 20.62, 25.49]
gice specifies the percentage less or equal to the thickness of each category.

The attached graph shows the area of ice that is thicker than each thickness cat.

4m+ ice is indeed declining dramatically,  but that is not a recent development.

oren

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2623 on: November 06, 2018, 02:35:47 PM »
Thank you Wipneus for this very interesting graph.

Pmt111500

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2624 on: November 06, 2018, 03:48:45 PM »
 Thanks Wipneus, I might at some point try to locate some thickness charts of ice on finnish waters, but this site is of course of Arctic Ice. The weather is a huge factor specially on lakes but also on the Baltic, but some degradation in thicknesses should be observable since 1950s.
Amateur observations of Sea Ice since 2003.

gerontocrat

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2625 on: November 06, 2018, 04:48:47 PM »
Thanks Wipneus, I might at some point try to locate some thickness charts of ice on finnish waters, but this site is of course of Arctic Ice. The weather is a huge factor specially on lakes but also on the Baltic, but some degradation in thicknesses should be observable since 1950s.
I read somewhere on this forum recently that the boffins doing the data analysis of icesat-2 data are adding the Baltic to their datasets sometime.
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sesyf

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2626 on: November 06, 2018, 08:24:14 PM »
I do not have actual numbers but eyeballing the Baltic sea ice perhaps since 2001 or so, the ice area has been consistently below the average. Just been looking at the simple comparison charts... oh, and the open watr temepratures have also been above average.

Pmt111500

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2627 on: November 06, 2018, 08:39:22 PM »
Thanks for the info. I meant the ground based measurements that have been done since the wwII on thickness. icesat II should be more accurate I guess.
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Juan C. García

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2628 on: November 07, 2018, 03:42:43 AM »
PIOMAS Volume - Arctic sea ice change versus 1979-2000  :)
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

Stephan

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2629 on: November 07, 2018, 07:05:36 AM »
Thanks Juan for the tables. Oct 2018 is the first month since Aug 2017 with a decreased volume compared with the same month a year ago.

Juan C. García

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2630 on: November 08, 2018, 03:04:15 AM »
Thanks Juan for the tables. Oct 2018 is the first month since Aug 2017 with a decreased volume compared with the same month a year ago.
You are welcome!
___________________________

Focusing on what has happened…

I started contact with Neven in May or June 2012 and I was shocked with the ASI drop on August, after the Great Arctic Cyclone. I was also impressed by the 2012 PIOMAS Volume graph made by Wipneus. So, when on the first months of 2013 appeared cracks on the ASI, well, several of us were concern of what could happen that year. Finally, 2013 was a good year for the ice and 2014 was even better. It had passed 6 years since 2012 and the collapse has not happened.

Or it has happened?  :o

On extent, the ASI has not even able to break the 2007 record, not to mention the 2012 record. So, there are some people saying that 2012 is an outlier and even 2007 will be difficult to break. But I don’t like extent! Yes, it is important to measure the effect of the Arctic Ocean albedo. But to measure the ASI drop, I am convinced that we should use volume, even if it is harder to measure than extent.

So, what do I see on volume?

First, volume on 2007 has been broken several times. On volume, 2007 is the ninth lowest on record! And even that September 2012 is still the lowest, the difference between 2012 with 2010-2011 and 2016-17 is not that big.

But on the other hand, while 2012 has not been broken, the decadal average show us that we
have a very different Arctic. By example, look at Aug-Oct average on a decadal basis.  The 1990-99 average of 93.6% changed to 68.5% on 2000-09 and to 39.5% on 2010-18.

So, do we need a catastrophe to prove a catastrophe? From my point of view, the catastrophe has already happened. The 39.5% ice that we have on 2010-18, versus the 1979-2000 baseline, is climate change, not just one year, not weather change.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 05:16:26 AM by Juan C. García »
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

Juan C. García

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2631 on: November 08, 2018, 04:07:32 AM »
My point is that with what has already happened, we should not be waiting for another bad year. We should be doing social activism. Expressing that there is no time to waste on banal discussions.

P.S. For Social Activism, it will be better to make the discussion on the following topic:
Focusing on what has happened…
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 04:55:36 AM by Juan C. García »
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

RoxTheGeologist

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2632 on: November 08, 2018, 03:45:49 PM »
So, do we need a catastrophe to prove a catastrophe? From my point of view, the catastrophe has already happened. The 39.5% ice that we have on 2010-18, versus the 1979-2000 baseline, is climate change, not just one year, not weather change.

Many people say; "If and when climate change effects us". Saying that the world is already changing and pointing to data like this is critical to winning the argument. Neven; I'm sorry to digress.

Neven

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2633 on: November 08, 2018, 07:16:12 PM »
Latest update on the ASIB: PIOMAS November 2018
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Neven

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2634 on: November 08, 2018, 09:54:06 PM »
Quick question: I get a security warning from both Chrome and Firefox when I go to the Polar Science Center PIOMAS web page. When I proceed it looks like the image below. Does anyone else experience the same?
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crandles

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2635 on: November 08, 2018, 10:09:41 PM »
Yes warning re not https and looks same.

Dharma Rupa

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2636 on: November 08, 2018, 10:36:59 PM »
Yes warning re not https and looks same.

Google, and I guess others, is getting really cranky about unsecured web connections.  In the long run this is good, but in the short run, it is a pain. If you know the site is safe do the advanced thing and go there.

gerontocrat

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2637 on: November 08, 2018, 11:29:49 PM »
Yes warning re not https and looks same.

Google, and I guess others, is getting really cranky about unsecured web connections.  In the long run this is good, but in the short run, it is a pain. If you know the site is safe do the advanced thing and go there.
Chrome even says the US Navy Joint Typhoon Warning Center is insecure.
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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2638 on: November 09, 2018, 12:12:08 AM »
Latest update on the ASIB: PIOMAS November 2018

I'm still unable to login in order to comment over there.

The last successful comment was on October 24th.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2639 on: November 09, 2018, 02:33:51 PM »
Quick question: I get a security warning from both Chrome and Firefox when I go to the  Polar Science Center PIOMAS web page. When I proceed it looks like the image below. Does anyone else experience the same?

The security certificate for psc.apl.washington.edu is extremely peculiar.  I suspect malware is affecting the webserver for that domain.  Edit:  Or possibly just inexpertly set up webserver.
Fortunately apl.washington.edu looks OK.

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2640 on: November 09, 2018, 02:39:22 PM »
Latest update on the ASIB: PIOMAS November 2018

I'm still unable to login in order to comment over there.

The last successful comment was on October 24th.

Seems like I am signed in with Typepad because I can reach edit profile page. However Neven' blog pages still say "Sign in with ...." rather than having post comment boxes. Not sure if that is the same for everyone.

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2641 on: November 09, 2018, 03:20:49 PM »
Seems like I am signed in with Typepad because I can reach edit profile page. However Neven' blog pages still say "Sign in with ...." rather than having post comment boxes. Not sure if that is the same for everyone.

Yes, same here. I've notified Typepad. Jim H has already done so over a week ago.
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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2642 on: November 09, 2018, 08:25:14 PM »
Yes, same here. I've notified Typepad. Jim H has already done so over a week ago.

Jim H has just managed to add a comment over on the ASIB!
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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2643 on: November 09, 2018, 11:14:36 PM »
Great. Typepad just infomed me that they fixed the problem.

Jim H, how is the Polar Science Center site working for you?
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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2644 on: November 10, 2018, 02:15:20 AM »
Latest update on the ASIB: PIOMAS November 2018

When I try to enter directly to Nevens Blog, I receive a security message from Kaspersky (it has been happening for a week or more and it happened right now).
I am using Microsoft Edge.

But if I use the "PIOMAS November 2018" link (on quote) I don't have this message. I able to see your Blog.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 02:29:45 AM by Juan C. García »
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

Jim Hunt

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2645 on: November 11, 2018, 03:07:12 PM »
Jim H, how is the Polar Science Center site working for you?

The APL site seems to be http only. The PSC site is available via http or https. Using the latter I get a "certificate error". Ploughing on regardless, everything looks OK at first glance.


Via Edge:

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2646 on: November 11, 2018, 03:11:12 PM »

When I try to enter directly to Nevens Blog, I receive a security message

Spot the difference between:

https://neven1.typepad.com

and

https://www.neven1.typepad.com

Until reading your post I'd only ever tried the former.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2647 on: November 11, 2018, 09:53:16 PM »
Removing the www helps but the other version is what i got as a standard (got a new computer some months ago searched for Neven Arctic Blog and ended up with the now blocked link). It would be better to only have 1 working link. Especially for people who don´t know the blog and who don´t hate Windows 10 enough to throw the old link into Chrome to see it. Older unsafe warnings let you override it by going anyway but that option is missing in the MS browser.

Juan C. García

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November)
« Reply #2648 on: November 11, 2018, 10:03:40 PM »
Removing the www helps but the other version is what i got as a standard (got a new computer some months ago searched for Neven Arctic Blog and ended up with the now blocked link). It would be better to only have 1 working link. Especially for people who don´t know the blog and who don´t hate Windows 10 enough to throw the old link into Chrome to see it. Older unsafe warnings let you override it by going anyway but that option is missing in the MS browser.

I have this link (with "www") in my Favorites for 6+ months and it was working before. Maybe some thing change with the automatic updates.


Thank you, Jim Hunt and Kassy.  :)
(Back to PIOMAS topic).
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

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Re: Latest PIOMAS update (November mid-monthly update)
« Reply #2649 on: November 20, 2018, 08:55:44 AM »
PIOMAS gridded thickness data was updated to the 15th of November. Volume (calculated from thickness) at 15 November is 9.42 [km3], 5th lowest after 2011, 2012, 2016 and 2017.

Here is the animation.