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KiwiGriff

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1100 on: January 06, 2020, 03:21:32 AM »
Hate to point it out
What you have now is not yet what is "normal".
We have not  reached equilibrium with our present green house gas levels. About 1/3 to 1/2 more warming is still to come from the present 410ppm CO2.   Then  you have the little problem that we are still accelerating CO2 rise.

Climate is changing and will continue to do so until we get emissions under control.

In reality what we see now is only a small taste  of what is to come.

We have pushed CO2 to levels not seen in perhaps 3* million years.
Think of a once in 3 million years weather event....

*could be up to 25 million years
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 07:07:43 AM by KiwiGriff »

VideoGameVet

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1101 on: January 06, 2020, 07:50:46 AM »
1000 Words
"Humans went to the moon on purpose. We destroyed an entire planet by just not caring."

Rodius

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1102 on: January 06, 2020, 09:48:29 AM »
Hate to point it out
What you have now is not yet what is "normal".
We have not  reached equilibrium with our present green house gas levels. About 1/3 to 1/2 more warming is still to come from the present 410ppm CO2.   Then  you have the little problem that we are still accelerating CO2 rise.

Climate is changing and will continue to do so until we get emissions under control.

In reality what we see now is only a small taste  of what is to come.

We have pushed CO2 to levels not seen in perhaps 3* million years.
Think of a once in 3 million years weather event....

*could be up to 25 million years

Dont burst my little bubble. (More to the point, I am trying hard to ignore that fact)
What will be interesting is the next few months as the fires keep burning and then food prices go up..... increased food prices seem to motivate people to take action against Govts who are as inept as ours (Australia).
I should have stayed in NZ.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1103 on: January 06, 2020, 05:45:08 PM »
Alex Steffen: "Damn. Wildfires burn their way to the coast in Victoria, Australia. The deep truth of this picture is that those forests will likely never be the same, and those beaches will be swallowed by rising seas before the end of the century. Img: Australian Maritime Safety Authority”
https://mobile.twitter.com/alexsteffen/status/1213607271072055297
Image below.

Brian Kahn: "Gut wrenching scene from New South Wales of dead animals along the roadside. The bushfires are a climate change-fueled ecological disaster. We should not look away”
https://mobile.twitter.com/blkahn/status/1213870775754616833
Video at the link.
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Rodius

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1104 on: January 06, 2020, 11:58:21 PM »
Alex Steffen: "Damn. Wildfires burn their way to the coast in Victoria, Australia. The deep truth of this picture is that those forests will likely never be the same, and those beaches will be swallowed by rising seas before the end of the century. Img: Australian Maritime Safety Authority”
https://mobile.twitter.com/alexsteffen/status/1213607271072055297
Image below.

Brian Kahn: "Gut wrenching scene from New South Wales of dead animals along the roadside. The bushfires are a climate change-fueled ecological disaster. We should not look away”
https://mobile.twitter.com/blkahn/status/1213870775754616833
Video at the link.

The Australian bush needs fire to survive, so the burning is not a real issue in terms of killing the bush in its natural state.
The real problem is that, so far, 7 out of 20 million km2 of the bush has been burned and continues to burn.
It is plausible that all of it will be gone below Sydney by the end of March.
Should that happen, or even if it doesnt, I can't see how the bush will recover with the animals alongside it.
Koala are already functionally extinct in that part of the world already because of these fires.


wdmn

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1105 on: January 07, 2020, 12:14:58 AM »
Burning when climactic conditions have changed can also lead to some species being unable to regenerate.

This has been documented in the western U.S.:

https://wildfiretoday.com/documents/RegeneratingPonderosaPine.pdf

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/13/6193

And in western Canada, where conifers like black spruce are losing out to deciduous species:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/forests-wildfires-1.4444998

Rodius

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1106 on: January 07, 2020, 12:20:31 AM »
Cooler weather has appeared in the last few days, giving a reprieve but not a fix.
Wind patterns have changed, so rather than just sending the smoke to New Zealand, Tasmanian fires are sending their smoke to Victoria. This has meant days of hazardous air quality throughout the state (and ruining my daily bike ride)

In the coming days the weather is heating things up again and the wind direction and strength will worsen the fires. A few of the bigger fires are probably going to merge making single super fires.

Only 83 days to go before the season ends......... Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide are probably going to takes hits this year, especially Sydney suburbs but they are being defended successfully so far

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51003504

TerryM

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1107 on: January 07, 2020, 12:15:57 PM »

gerontocrat

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1108 on: January 07, 2020, 01:17:42 PM »
It seems the fossil fuel industry in Australia is subsidised to the tune of 1,728 Aussie Dollars per person per year. i.e. about 42 billion Aussie dollars per annum (that's about USD 30 Billion)***

The article asks the question - who should pay to clear up the mess left by the wildfires and start the long-term work to mitigate the future disastrous effects of further climate change.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/07/should-fossil-fuels-pay-for-australias-new-bushfire-reality-it-is-the-industry-most-responsible
Should fossil fuels pay for Australia's new bushfire reality? It is the industry most responsible
It is unconscionable that the taxpayer funds fossil fuels to the tune of $1,728 per person per year. What if we channelled this into climate adaptation?

Quote
It is week nine of the current bushfire crisis; almost 20 people are dead, over 1,000 homes have been lost, half a billion animals have been killed and a land area twice the size of Belgium has been burned. Countless lives have been affected and we know there is more to come.

The most important thing right now is to protect as much life and property as possible.

But looking beyond the immediate crisis, we need to start an honest discussion about something none of us want to admit – that these unprecedented, catastrophic fires may indeed mark the beginning of Australia’s new normal.

As the world and Australia fail to make meaningful reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, it is clear that we are entering the next phase of climate change – that is, increasingly frequent and severe weather events, occurring in places that have never been affected before.
______________________________________________________________
***Nota Bene - this subsidy data is not from some Greenie outfit but from the International Monetary Fund

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2019/05/02/Global-Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies-Remain-Large-An-Update-Based-on-Country-Level-Estimates-46509

Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Remain Large: An Update Based on Country-Level Estimates

Quote
Globally, subsidies remained large at $4.7 trillion (6.3 percent of global GDP) in 2015 and are projected at $5.2 trillion (6.5 percent of GDP) in 2017.

The largest subsidizers in 2015 were China ($1.4 trillion), United States ($649 billion), Russia ($551 billion), European Union ($289 billion), and India ($209 billion). About three quarters of global subsidies are due to domestic factors—energy pricing reform thus remains largely in countries’ own national interest—while coal and petroleum together account for 85 percent of global subsidies.

Efficient fossil fuel pricing in 2015 would have lowered global carbon emissions by 28 percent and fossil fuel air pollution deaths by 46 percent, and increased government revenue by 3.8 percent of GDP.
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Richard Rathbone

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1109 on: January 07, 2020, 06:18:43 PM »
Thats how much the average Aussie is being subsidised, not how much the FF industry is being subsidised. Its the subsidy to consumers, not producers or suppliers.

The paper calculates how much it thinks fossil fuels should have sold for, how much they actually sold for, and defines the difference as the subsidy. The people getting this subsidy are the ones buying the fuel, not the ones selling it.

The average taxpayer is not funding the industry to the tune of $1728 per person per year, they are funding themselves by paying less tax on their fossil fuel use than they ought to.


gerontocrat

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1110 on: January 07, 2020, 06:51:53 PM »
Thats how much the average Aussie is being subsidised, not how much the FF industry is being subsidised. Its the subsidy to consumers, not producers or suppliers.

The paper calculates how much it thinks fossil fuels should have sold for, how much they actually sold for, and defines the difference as the subsidy. The people getting this subsidy are the ones buying the fuel, not the ones selling it.

The average taxpayer is not funding the industry to the tune of $1728 per person per year, they are funding themselves by paying less tax on their fossil fuel use than they ought to.
And from that stoking demand, meaning more CO2 emissions, more profits for the fossil fuel companies, less Government Revenue that could have been spent on developing renewable energy, and ensuring AGW increases faster and therefore higher risk of - Wildfires.
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TerryM

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1111 on: January 08, 2020, 03:57:24 PM »
Raman!
It doesn't matter whose hand the subsidy goes into, it ends up in the pocket of the subsidized industry.


Terry

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1112 on: January 08, 2020, 04:52:57 PM »
Very curious that there is a bunch of fake news out there concerning Australia's fires.  Example headlines:
The truth behind the 'misleading' fire maps that have gone viral during Australia's bushfire crisis
  • Scale is a little exaggerated
  • so-called "hotspot" data picked up by satellites
  • users zoom out too far on maps
Fires misinformation being spread through social media
False claim:  almost 200 arsonists had been arrested in NSW
Actual police report:  24 people charged with deliberately lighting a fire (183 [or was it 186] violations of fire-related laws; many associated with tossing lit cigarettes)

That "24 arsonists/attempted-arsonists" is still a huge number, if you ask me!
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blumenkraft

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1113 on: January 08, 2020, 05:33:58 PM »
We should protect the world from the people who want to see it burn.

But no, we make them our leaders.

I'm telling you guys, this is not the correct timeline. This is Bizarro Earth!
The apocalypse is already here; it's just not very evenly distributed.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1114 on: January 08, 2020, 09:58:40 PM »
How Climate Change Has Made the Australian Bushfires Worse | Time
Quote
The Australian bushfires were exacerbated by two factors that have a “well-established” link to climate change: heat and dry conditions, says Stefan Rahmstorf, department head at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany and a lead author of the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s Fourth Assessment Report.

In recent years, Australia has experienced long-term dry conditions and exceptionally low rainfall. Scientists say that droughts in the country have gotten worse over recent decades. At the same time, the country has recorded record high temperatures; last summer was the hottest on record for the country. ...
https://time.com/5759964/australian-bushfires-climate-change/

——-
Quote
NASA on Twitter: "Bushfires have been ravaging Australia's Kangaroo Island, which is home to native wildlife such as sea lions, koalas and endangered bird species. Our @NASAEarth satellites are monitoring the extent of the damage and the areas continuing to burn.”
Quote
Kangaroo Island Shows Burn Scars On One Third of the Land Mass | NASA
     https://mobile.twitter.com/nasa/status/1214668035149221888
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2020/kangaroo-island-shows-burn-scars-on-one-third-of-the-land-mass
Image below.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1115 on: January 09, 2020, 04:57:43 PM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1116 on: January 10, 2020, 12:42:09 AM »


Fire Spread Prediction for Fri 10 Jan 2020. Severe to Extreme fire danger is forecast for parts of NSW tomorrow, incl southern areas of the state. These conditions will make fire behaviour erratic & dangerous

https://mobile.twitter.com/NSWRFS/status/1215218398096850944

100kph winds forecast for Victoria

---------------------------

An Australian Ecologist Explains Just How Bad the Fires Are for Wildlife
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2020/1/9/21057375/australia-fire-wildlife-extinctions-ecology
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 01:01:55 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Niall Dollard

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1117 on: January 10, 2020, 01:34:37 AM »
Kangaroo island. One month apart.

Sailaway

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1118 on: January 10, 2020, 08:25:53 AM »

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1119 on: January 10, 2020, 10:43:15 AM »
“Jenner”, a Furry comic artist, lives in Oz. He emailed me that these fires are as devastating as a war to the people Down Under.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1120 on: January 10, 2020, 02:10:25 PM »


This animation shows the immense spread of aerosols from bushfires in southeast Australia between 28 December 2019 and 8 January 2020. These plumes of particles have swept over New Zealand and crossed the South Pacific Ocean, even reaching Chile and Argentina.



--------------------------

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/10/795169417/enormous-mega-fire-in-australia-engulfs-1-5-million-acres
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/01/10/australia-urges-a-quarter-of-a-million-to-flee-as-winds-fan-massive-bushfires.html

Authorities sent emergency texts to 240,000 people in Victoria, telling them to leave. People in high-risk regions in New South Wales and South Australia were also urged to think about leaving, but officials did not say how many.

A pair of massive bushfires in southeastern Australia has merged into a "megafire" engulfing some 2,300 square miles — a single blaze more than three times as large as any known fire in California.

The merged fire, which straddles the country's most populous states of New South Wales and Victoria, measures nearly 1.5 million acres, according to The Sydney Morning Herald.

Australia's wildfires have dwarfed other catastrophic blazes, with its burnt terrain more than twice the extent of that ravaged this year by fires in Brazil, California and Indonesia combined.

Authorities have warned that the huge fires, spurred by high temperatures, wind, and a three-year drought, will persist until there is substantial rainfall. The weather agency said there was no sign of that for months.

The fires have emitted 400 megatonnes of carbon dioxide and produced harmful pollutants, the European Union's Copernicus monitoring program said.

Since October, 27 people have been killed and thousands subjected to repeat evacuations as monster and unpredictable fires scorched more than 10.3 million hectares (25.5 million acres) of land, or an area the size of South Korea.

Westpac estimated total bushfire losses to date at about A$5 billion ($3.44 billion), higher than the 2009 bushfires in Victoria but smaller than the Queensland floods in 2010/11. It forecast a hit of 0.2% to 0.5% on gross domestic product.

The Insurance Council of Australia increased its estimate of damages claims from the fires to more than A$900 million, with claims expected to jump further.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 02:27:26 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1121 on: January 10, 2020, 05:53:19 PM »
Mass Mortality Event: What Happens When Tons of Animals Die All at Once
https://phys.org/news/2020-01-feral-pig-carcasses-scientists-tons.html

... Investigations reveal that mass mortality events affect ecosystems in two general ways.

First, the sheer magnitude—hundreds or thousands—of individuals removed from the ecosystem means that their roles in the environment are lost too.

In Australia, as much as half of the koala population in some areas have been killed by fire. Besides being a national symbol and source of ecotourism, koalas are important to the ecosystem as one of the few animals that can consume and recycle nutrients from eucalyptus plants. The widespread death of koalas means a significant break in the food chain—nothing is left to eat eucalyptus.

Similarly, the mass mortality of small mammals, rabbits and kangaroos means that few prey will remain for predators like dingos, who may struggle to avoid starvation in the now barren landscape. Fires also kill less charismatic species such as insects and bats, both of which are important for pollination, and their loss may represent a challenge for post-fire plant communities. Without these and other animals present to perform their ecological jobs, Australia's ecosystems will undoubtedly change.

Secondly, the large number of rotting carcasses caused by a mass mortality event will have their own environmental impacts.

... the ongoing mass mortality of kangaroo, koala and other large animals will produce more carcasses than scavengers—eagles, dingoes and a species of reptiles known as goannas—can keep up with. Instead of disappearing quickly, carcasses will likely become breeding grounds for bacteria and insects. This is worrisome, because many of these may be pathogens that affect people, wildlife and livestock, and the flies can transport pathogens great distances. In fact, in previous experiments, our simulated MMEs produced enough flies to cover the ground in a river of maggots.

In Australia, dingo, eagle, and goanna populations are likely to benefit from the ample carrion provided by these fires. Unfortunately, inflated scavenger numbers may cause more problems. When the carrion eventually disappears, these overabundant scavengers may be forced to seek food in populated areas, resulting in conflict and attacks on people and domestic animals. Such indirect consequences of these fires are difficult to anticipate.

What is certain, however, is that the ecosystem that emerges after the smoke clears will be dramatically different.

-------------------------------

Wildlife Needs Fire-Damaged and Dead Trees After Fires
https://phys.org/news/2020-01-wildlife-fire-damaged-dead-trees.html
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1122 on: January 10, 2020, 06:06:59 PM »
Very curious that there is a bunch of fake news out there concerning Australia's fires.  Example headlines:
The truth behind the 'misleading' fire maps that have gone viral during Australia's bushfire crisis
  • Scale is a little exaggerated
  • so-called "hotspot" data picked up by satellites
  • users zoom out too far on maps
Fires misinformation being spread through social media
False claim:  almost 200 arsonists had been arrested in NSW
Actual police report:  24 people charged with deliberately lighting a fire (183 [or was it 186] violations of fire-related laws; many associated with tossing lit cigarettes)

That "24 arsonists/attempted-arsonists" is still a huge number, if you ask me!

^ Related:

Australia Bushfires Spark 'Unprecedented' Climate Disinformation
https://phys.org/news/2020-01-australia-bushfires-unprecedented-climate-disinformation.html

... One hashtag in particular, #arsonemergency, has gained traction rapidly and conservative-leaning newspapers, websites and politicians across the globe have promoted the theory arson is largely to blame.

Timothy Graham, a digital media expert at the Queensland University of Technology, told AFP his research showed half of the Twitter users deploying the hashtag displayed bot- and troll-like behaviour.

Those accounts were created very recently, often without profile pictures. Twitter handles were sequences of numbers or characters, sometimes a meaningless combination of both.

Their tweets focused on one subject, in this case #arsonemergency; their tweets were often repetitive, and some of the accounts interacted solely with each other.

"Our findings show a concerted effort aimed to misinform the public about the cause of the bushfires," Graham said.

Of the 300 Twitter accounts and 1,200-plus tweets Graham and his team examined, half of the users were assessed to be genuine individuals and they tended to hold conservative views.

False claims that 180 people have been charged with arson in relation to the bushfires appeared to give the theory credence and have been shared widely on social media, including by Donald Trump Jr, son of the US president.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Archimid

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1123 on: January 11, 2020, 11:46:50 AM »
In the US it is common practice to blame poor, usually brown people for fires. It gives the fire victims and the people terrified by the fires someone to blame other than themselves and their CO2 emissions.

Recently California bucked that trend by blaming a corporate person, namely PG&E for the fires. Regardless of what the court say or what PG&E does, the fires will just keep starting and spreading because current old trees are out of their climate.

Blaming the poor or blaming a rich corporate person has the same effect. Letting people assign blame on others other than themselves. It is just so much fun.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1124 on: January 11, 2020, 12:35:15 PM »
Good point,  Archimid. But i still have a critique.

There is no such thing as a corporate person, no matter what the SCOTUS sais!

It is on point to blame PG&E for letting the infrastructure rot. It's pure scapegoating and literally a NAZI move to blame minorities.

Same effect or not, they are very much not the same thing. But a nice example of how the same human trait can lead to good and/or bad...
The apocalypse is already here; it's just not very evenly distributed.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1125 on: January 11, 2020, 03:38:00 PM »
Shane Fitzsimmons on Twitter: "US fire fighters arrived at Sydney Int Airport this week, on their way to assist with fire fighting in Victoria. Coming through, all gathered gave a spontaneous & lengthy round of applause, reflecting the gratitude & admiration we all have for their generosity. #NSWRFS @NSWRFS”
https://mobile.twitter.com/rfscommissioner/status/1215194398721368065
Video at the link.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1126 on: January 11, 2020, 06:43:46 PM »
When I was in high school, there was a 'massive' forest fire (the joining of the "Dog" fire and the "Cat" fire, I recall); our local Civil Air Patrol squadron provided a first aid station for the firefighter's 'in the middle of nowhere' field camp.  The number one request was for 'anything' that would reattach or hold the sole of a boot in place.  (Adhesive tape works for a while.)  One of the things I learned from that experience was that most of the men thought of firefighting as 'just a job'.  They were (mostly) young and strong and the pay was good.  "Generosity", albeit attributed by the admiring public, is not a prime motivation of firefighters, if my experience is anything to go by.

Six months later I was out planting trees in that forest with a friend whose family had a cabin there (a shack that survived). 
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nanning

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1127 on: January 11, 2020, 07:09:38 PM »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1128 on: January 11, 2020, 08:40:47 PM »
One little quote from that article:
Quote
The philosopher Donna Haraway speaks of the imperative of “staying with the trouble”, of not shying away from reality but instead inhabiting the present in all its complexity, terror, hope and joy and recognising our kinship with those around us.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1129 on: January 11, 2020, 09:44:11 PM »

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/opinion/australia-fires.html
Quote
The answer, pretty clearly, is that scientific persuasion is running into sharply diminishing returns. Very few of the people still denying the reality of climate change or at least opposing doing anything about it will be moved by further accumulation of evidence, or even by a proliferation of new disasters. Any action that does take place will have to do so in the face of intractable right-wing opposition.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 04:30:06 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Archimid

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1130 on: January 11, 2020, 10:52:14 PM »
Quote
There is no such thing as a corporate person, no matter what the SCOTUS sais!

I also don't care what the SCOTUS says when forming my opinions. However, I believe that groups of people have the same fundamental rights as individuals and behave in many ways as individual people do.

The most important group is the family. A family is a kind of people. The government is a kind of people. Corporations are also a kind of people, for profit or not.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

blumenkraft

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1131 on: January 12, 2020, 03:24:49 PM »
We are off-topic for too long. Going to send you a PM. :)

The apocalypse is already here; it's just not very evenly distributed.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1132 on: January 12, 2020, 03:43:41 PM »
Another version of this chart.  IOD = Indian Ocean Dipole.

Mike Hansen on Twitter: "Australian mean temperature anomaly and years with positive IOD (records since 1960).”
https://mobile.twitter.com/hmike01/status/1215839244817616896
Data from bom.gov.au.  Links at the link.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1133 on: January 14, 2020, 12:10:33 AM »
Victoria Police: "The delivery of hay continues. Victoria Police have been able to get trucks filled with donated hay supplies into the fire-affected areas of Tambo Crossing, Cann River and Newmerella.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/victoriapolice/status/1216218410134069250
Photos at the link.

Nine News Sydney: "Thousands of kilograms of carrots and sweet potato are being delivered to endangered Brush-tailed Rock-wallabies in fire affected areas as the NSW Government steps in to help. #9News”
https://mobile.twitter.com/9newssyd/status/1216221892358496256
Brief video at the link.

1987, Sydney Morning Herald
https://twitter.com/macaulaybalkan/status/1216333701027528705
Image below.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Florifulgurator

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1134 on: January 14, 2020, 03:30:31 AM »
1987, Sydney Morning Herald
Thanks! Gone to my collection next to this:

1912, Rodney and Otamatea Times (New Zealand)
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Juan C. García

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1135 on: January 14, 2020, 12:16:45 PM »
Quote
More than 1 million fires in Australia
detected by satellites since September

By Harry Stevens Jan. 10, 2020

Australia’s ruinous fire season can be seen from space. NASA’s satellites have spotted more than a million infrared heat signatures — telltale signs of fires — across the country since the beginning of September.

The fires have largely been concentrated in the southeastern state of New South Wales, home to Sydney, where authorities last week declared a state of emergency for the third month in a row. At least 25 people have died, and the persistent burning has devastated forests, destroyed thousands of homes, and killed millions of animals — more than a billion, by one estimate.

NASA’s satellites, which identify active hotspots by measuring their infrared emissions, have spotted far more fires this season than any since 2013.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/australia-fires/
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

gerontocrat

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1136 on: January 14, 2020, 01:11:35 PM »
After it's over ...... it isn't over.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/14/the-sweet-relief-of-rain-after-bushfires-threaten-disaster-for-our-rivers
The sweet relief of rain after bushfires threaten disaster for our rivers
Fire debris flowing into the Murray-Darling Basin will exacerbate the risk of fish and other aquatic life dying en masse

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1137 on: January 14, 2020, 03:11:15 PM »
"Over 1 million fires..."

but muh arsonists...  ::)

nanning

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1138 on: January 14, 2020, 06:06:49 PM »
A nice article from the BBC:

Australia fires: A visual guide to the bushfire crisis
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50951043

Quote
Although recent cooler conditions and rain have brought some respite, more than 100 fires are still burning in the states of New South Wales and Victoria.

Some 28 people have so far been killed - including four firefighters - and an estimated 10 million hectares (100,000 sq km or 15.6 million acres) of bush, forest and parks across Australia has burned.
(bolding by me)
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   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Paddy

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1139 on: January 16, 2020, 04:31:05 PM »
"Over 1 million fires..."

but muh arsonists...  ::)

The arsonists thing is just so painfully stupid.  It relies on statistics that anyone could learn were false in 1 minute using google; it supposes that environmentalists would secretly conspire to torch the very environment they want to protect in order to make a political point; it ignores record breaking heat and dryness; it also ignores all expert opinion from fire fighters as well as scientists.  Too many people are living in a post-truth world.

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1140 on: January 16, 2020, 05:14:43 PM »
I openly worried , through the noughties, just how folk would climb down from their lazy acceptance of the climate change denial they were being inundated with?

I guess that we're seeing how 'The Many' can be expected to react now?

Rather than accept their error they seek to compound it by believing ever more fantastical reasons why they have been right all along....

I do not believe we can expect any aid from such quarters? (once the world finally decides to act with the sense of urgency our Crisis demands)

Sadly the whacked out politics of both UK & USA appear to mirror all of this with supporters of the Lunatics they placed in power unable to see anything wrong with their choice for President/Prime Minister?

Ho Hum.....

KOYAANISQATSI

ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
 
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS

nanning

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1141 on: January 16, 2020, 06:00:02 PM »
Gray-Wolf thanks for that.
And I want to say that I really like your Hopi bottomtext. Gives a glimpse into their way of thinking.
But I don't understand the Latin. "Growing vulnerable virtue/courage"? Could you help me out?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1142 on: January 16, 2020, 06:42:54 PM »
Gray-Wolf thanks for that.
And I want to say that I really like your Hopi bottomtext. Gives a glimpse into their way of thinking.
But I don't understand the Latin. "Growing vulnerable virtue/courage"? Could you help me out?

"Courage grows strong at a wound" is the motto of the scottish highland clan of stewarts an the burnetts.

Beware of wounded / cornered animals is a saying that has a similar meaning in everyday and we can consider ourselves as animals in this context ;)

nanning

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1143 on: January 16, 2020, 07:38:47 PM »
Thanks philopek.
We are animals indeed (apart from the modern workings of our civilisation brains) but we are apparently not wounded enough ;)

Dutch: "Een kat in het nauw maakt rare sprongen" -> A cornered cat will make strange leaps.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Florifulgurator

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1144 on: January 17, 2020, 01:34:46 AM »
https://www.abc.net.au/religion/learning-from-jimmys-grief-after-the-inferno/11862360

[quote
As I write this on Friday afternoon, it’s been forty-eight hours, and he has barely lifted his head. We call him, but it’s only when we get right up close that he answers, and then in the softest voice — a voice very different to his usual booming baritone. I just climbed down to where he was lying and finally got him to drink a little water, but he showed no interest in food — not even watermelon, his favourite treat. I had no idea that grief could be so deep for anyone.

I’ve held off to this point telling you that Jimmy is a pig [...]
/quote]
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 02:04:38 AM by Florifulgurator »
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sidd

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1145 on: January 17, 2020, 01:46:00 AM »
Re: KOYAANISQATSI

There's a rather nice set of movies about that

sidd

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1146 on: January 17, 2020, 02:33:56 AM »
Personally I'm all for imbalance.

If balance is a political system it is fascism.

As the quote says, imbalance leads to something new. It would be horrible if the new was just some misguided attempt to return to some romantic conception of the "land of old."

So where to boys and girls?

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1147 on: January 17, 2020, 03:42:37 AM »
'It's heart-wrenching': 80% of Blue Mountains and 50% of Gondwana rainforests burn in bushfires

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/17/its-heart-wrenching-80-of-blue-mountains-and-50-of-gondwana-rainforests-burn-in-bushfires

wdmn

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1148 on: January 17, 2020, 03:54:26 AM »
'It's heart-wrenching': 80% of Blue Mountains and 50% of Gondwana rainforests burn in bushfires

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/17/its-heart-wrenching-80-of-blue-mountains-and-50-of-gondwana-rainforests-burn-in-bushfires

Talk about losing the land of old...

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1149 on: January 17, 2020, 04:52:26 AM »
Cross post: part of the Gondwana rain forest, I presume.

Incredible, secret firefighting mission saves famous 'dinosaur trees'
By Peter Hannam
January 15, 2020 — 4.24pm (eastern Australian time zone) - Sydney Morning Herald
Quote
Desperate efforts by firefighters on the ground and in the air have saved the only known natural grove of the world-famous Wollemi pines from destruction during the record-breaking bushfires in NSW.

The rescue mission involved water-bombing aircraft and large air tankers dropping fire retardant. Helicopters also winched specialist firefighters into the remote gorge to set up an irrigation system to increase the moisture content of the ground fuels to slow the advance of any fire.
...
While most of the Wollemi National Park has been burnt by the huge Gospers Mountain fire north-west of Sydney, specialist remote-area fire crews managed to ensure the so-called "dinosaur trees" survived.

"Wollemi National Park is the only place in the world where these trees are found in the wild and, with less than 200 left, we knew we needed to do everything we could to save them,” Mr Kean said.

The National Parks and Wildlife Service, backed by the Rural Fire Service, kept their efforts largely a secret to avoid revealing the location of the Wollemi pines.
...
"When the pines were discovered in 1994, you might as well have found a living dinosaur," Mr Kean said.
...
While one population of a couple of trees was lost [to fire], the remaining 200 made it.
...
Professor Brack said evidence from researchers who have visited the trees' secret location suggests the pines were able to withstand fires in the past. That said, "these fires have been abnormally hot and large", he added.

Saving the area was not only important for preserving the pines, which have now been propagated by nurseries at home and abroad since their discovery a quarter of a century ago.

"The entire ecosystem may be as old and as amazing as the Wollemi pines themselves," Professor Brack said.

The Gospers Mountain fire alone burnt through more than 512,000 hectares before crews contained the blaze in recent days.

Started by lightning on October 26, the fire may be assessed as the largest ever fire known to have started from a single source, the Herald reported last month.
...
I actually was wondering what their fate was.  (I've known about them for about a decade.)
[OT: In graduate school I made a poster for my office wall (based on something I'd heard): "Reunite Gondwanaland".]
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