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gerontocrat

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #700 on: November 14, 2018, 09:30:09 PM »
Terry , I thought the tone of the warning was alarmist but we do use plastic septic tanks and you are told when they put them in to not drive on them.
Plastic melts when it is hot. Maybe water pipes have burst as well. Raw sewage may be underfoot and not good if your footwear isn't so good. It happened to me in a third world country (inspecting the open sewers in a very low-income area) and damn near killed me. Bugs are democrats, rich or poor makes no difference to them.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #701 on: November 14, 2018, 10:07:25 PM »
A relief center in California recognized its susceptibility to losing grid power due to wildfires, and installed a micro-grid of solar and batteries, with a diesel backup. 

Quote
Direct Relief, a nonprofit organization with the goal to “help people affected by poverty or in emergency situations”, says that its Santa Barbara-based pharmaceutical warehouse “can never afford to lose power.” It’s why they contracted Tesla to deploy a microgrid at the location to keep it running in case of a disaster.

The warehouse stores emergency supply in case of disasters like earthquakes and wildfires, yet, the organization admits that it is itself vulnerable to disasters.

They wrote in a blog post today:

“Geographically isolated Santa Barbara is connected to the world by a thin thread. Nearly all its electricity comes via a single pair of power lines coming in through remote, wildfire-prone terrain. If that pair is cut by fire or earthquake or preventatively shut off during high winds—or if the power grid is crippled by a natural disaster—Santa Barbara could go dark.”

Power is essential since they need to constantly maintain a cold temperature between 36- and 41-degrees Fahrenheit in order to store some medicine. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-microgrid-direct-relief-emergency-supply-warehouse-disaster/
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vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #702 on: November 15, 2018, 12:22:21 AM »
This is what climate refugees look like ...

Refugee camps for fire survivors? Butte County on ‘edge’ of humanitarian crisis after Camp Fire 
http://amp.sacbee.com/news/state/california/fires/article221594715.html

A Wal-Mart parking lot has become a de facto refugee camp as those who have lost everything seek the most basic of necessities: a place to be.

... Local officials warned the destruction from the Camp Fire could set off a wave of refugee migration akin to a smaller version of the Dust Bowl of the 1930s.

Big picture, we have 6,000, possibly 7,000 households who have been displaced and who realistically don’t stand a chance of finding housing again in Butte County,” said Ed Mayer, the executive director of the county’s housing agency. “I don’t even know if these households can be absorbed in California.”

... “We could make the choice to put them in temporary (shelters) to try to absorb those households for three to five years, meaning refugee camps and trying to keep our community together. That’s one choice,” ... “The other choice is we say, ‘We can’t do it, we don’t have the ability (to find shelters) and go fend for yourselves.’”
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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Archimid

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #703 on: November 15, 2018, 03:10:04 AM »
Quote
A relief center in California recognized its susceptibility to losing grid power due to wildfires, and installed a micro-grid of solar and batteries, with a diesel backup. 

Out-frigging-standing.

I hope they take full advantage of the concept of efficiency as the first fuel. The diesel generator should only work at optimum RPM. No need to throttle. 100% of the power it produces at it's most efficient RPM's should be used to charge the batteries and then shutdown.  The batteries should dispatch power only as needed. No need to over generate power to provide for demand spikes

 I hope the facility develops an SOP to operate in a sort of "low power mode" when running on backup power. A state of minimum energy consumption could be achieved by things like turning unused lights off, unused equipment and keeping high awareness among the staff and patients of the low power conditions.

If all emergency facilities were energy independent climate change will have a much tougher  time killing us.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Alexander555

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #704 on: November 15, 2018, 10:53:06 AM »
Firefighters battled 500 fires in 30 days, a new all time high i think.
https://www.news8000.com/news/national-news/california-braces-for-more-wildfire-casualties/863384147

vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #705 on: November 15, 2018, 05:16:28 PM »
Factcheck: How Global Warming Has Increased US Wildfires
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-global-warming-has-increased-us-wildfires

Quote
Recently, some commentators have tried to dismiss recent increases in the areas burnt by fires in the US, claiming that fires were much worse in the early part of the century. To do this, they are ignoring clear guidance by scientists that the data should not be used to make comparisons with earlier periods.

... According to data from the NIFC, there has been a clear trend in increased area burned by wildfires in the US since the 1980s, when reliable US-wide estimates based on fire situation reports from federal and state agencies became available.

Today, wildfires are burning more than twice the area than in the 1980s and 1990s. These figures include all wildland fires in both forested and non-forested areas. Most of the area burned today is in the western US, where dryer conditions tend to allow for large, quickly-spreading wildfires.

The NIFC explicitly warns users on its website: “Prior to 1983, sources of these figures are not known, or cannot be confirmed, and were not derived from the current situation reporting process. As a result, the figures prior to 1983 should not be compared to later data.”

Those sceptical about the role of climate change in the recent increase in fires have pointed to the full dataset, trying to argue that the fire area has decreased by around 80% over the past century.

This is not an accurate comparison, according to Randy Eardley, a spokesman at the NIFC.
Quote
... To try and compare any of the more modern data to that earlier data is not accurate or appropriate, because we didn’t have a good way to measure [earlier data]. Back then we didn’t have a reliable reporting system; for all I know those came from a variety of different sources that often double-counted figures. When you look at some of those years that add up to 60 or 70 million acres burned a lot of those acres have to be double counted two or three times. We didn’t have a system to estimate area burned until 1960, but it was really refined in 1983.
If 50m acres had actually burned in the early 20th century, it would amount to an area of land equal to the entire state of Nebraska going up in flames every year.



Eardley suggests that earlier records were inflated by including areas where fires were purposefully set to clear forests for agriculture, or where rangelands were torched to get rid of sagebrush to improve grazing conditions. Other federal reports suggest that most of the area burned between 1930 and 1950 was in southeastern US and were primarily intentionally set fires for clearing land.

While the early 20th century data is not reliable and likely double or even triple-counted actual fires, Eardley says that it is possible that fire extents were higher back then for a simple reason: there was no large-scale firefighting organisation in the first half of the 20th century. Therefore, fires would burn through larger areas before being extinguished or burning themselves out, particularly when they were not close to towns or settlements.

There has been no proof that wildfires and global warming have any connection besides in the media...

It's revealing that mostly_lurking used disingenuous graphics from WhatUpWithThat to support his global warming denial.
<snip, I believe you, no need to link to that s**thole; N>

Watts, et.al (and apparently mostly_lurking) deliberately misrepresented data from the US National Interagency Fire Center (NIFC) and ignored the database warning:
Quote
... Prior to 1983, sources of these figures are not known, or cannot be confirmed, and were not derived from the current situation reporting process. As a result the figures prior to 1983 should not be compared to later data.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 03:29:40 PM by vox_mundi »
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wili

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #706 on: November 15, 2018, 05:33:28 PM »
Thanks (as always), vox. I had a feeling that I had seen those doctored and intentionally mis-representing graphs from other denialists and pseudo-sceptics on other sites. Thanks for doing the extra work of actually tracking them down.

I had the impression that this was one place we wouldn't have to put up with non-stop trolling from WUWT enthusiasts. Sadly, some still seem to squeak through. Apparently they've learned that all they have to do is mouth approval of some of the head moderators pet favorite sites (Dore, etc) and positions, and then they can get away with all sorts of crap not usually allowed here.

On another note, I was a bit surprised that this now-fairly-common denialist trope has not yet made it into the "Most Used Climate Myths" over at Skeptical Science (unless I missed it).
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Neven

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #707 on: November 15, 2018, 09:13:13 PM »
It's revealing that mostly_lurking used disingenuous graphics from WhatUpWithThat to support his global warming denial.
<snip, I believe you, no need to link to that s**thole; N>

Watts, et.al (and apparently mostly_lurking) deliberately misrepresented data from the US National Interagency Fire Center (NIFC) and ignored the database warning:

Oh, really? I wasn't aware of that. If mostly-lurking does it again, he's out of here. If you can't find graphs or arguments from reputable sources, and only from a source like WUWT, there's a 99.9% chance it's BS. Don't link to that stuff here, ever.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #708 on: November 15, 2018, 09:31:50 PM »
On another note, I was a bit surprised that this now-fairly-common denialist trope has not yet made it into the "Most Used Climate Myths" over at Skeptical Science (unless I missed it).
Just to make sure I registered with Skeptical Science and added a comment all about it to their article from Yale (with a credit to ASIF) and the suggestion it needed adding to the myths list.

mostly_lurking did a service really - provoked the research and the rebuttal and got me energized enough to send the message on.
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Steven

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #709 on: November 15, 2018, 09:58:25 PM »
If mostly-lurking does it again, he's out of here.

It's not the first time that mostly_lurking has posted WUWT propaganda on this forum.  In fact, you've already given him a final warning before:

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2278.msg169292.html#msg169292

<Thanks, I had forgotten about that, he's banned now; N.>
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 10:36:33 PM by Neven »

vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #710 on: November 15, 2018, 10:20:06 PM »
The Camp and Woolsey Fires have burned more than 9,000 structures

Quote
The death toll increases to a total of 59 for the two fires in California.

About 460 workers and 22 cadaver dogs are assessing the path that the Camp Fire took as it devastated the town of Paradise in Northern California on November 8. The estimated number of homes destroyed in the blaze is fluid and keeps rising, reaching 8,756 Thursday morning with another 260 commercial structures destroyed. The fatalities the crews have discovered has risen to 56, with 130 people still unaccounted for.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=5306cc8cf38c4252830a38d467d33728&extent=-13547810.5486%2C4824920.1673%2C-13518764.4778%2C4841526.1117%2C102100

California’s Deadliest Wildfire is Also a Massive Air-Quality Problem
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/15/californias-deadliest-wildfire-is-also-massive-air-quality-problem/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.26370735d706

Quote


Wildfire smoke, thick with soot and other particles, sent the air quality plummeting in the Bay Area to the “very unhealthy” level — the second-lowest rating, just above “hazardous” — in the week since the Camp Fire started, said Bay Area Air Quality Management District spokesman Walter Wallace. By midday Wednesday, the air-quality advisory for the Bay Region had improved slightly to the “unhealthy” level.

Smoke pours into Bay Area, air quality as unhealthy as Beijing

Air quality in Portland 'unhealthy for sensitive groups'

RealTime Air Quality Map: https://airnow.gov/state/CA/index.cfm https://airnow.gov/

Chico, Sacramento, Yuba City, CA air-quality like New Delhi


Quote
NOAA’s forecast for the distribution of wildfire smoke at 6 p.m. PST November 13, 2018. Much of Central and Northern California has severely compromised air quality and is in the “unhealthy” category.

https://wildfiretoday.com/2018/11/13/wildfire-smoke-and-air-quality-maps-november-13-2018/
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 10:25:16 PM by vox_mundi »
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wili

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #711 on: November 15, 2018, 11:09:53 PM »
Neven said: "
<Thanks, I had forgotten about that, he's banned now; N.>"

Thanks...and may I say, respectfully--Finally! :)
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

pileus

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #712 on: November 16, 2018, 05:15:00 AM »
600+ unaccounted for, nearly 12,000 structures destroyed in the Camp Fire.

The death toll from the devastating Camp fire jumped to 63 on Thursday as search crews recovered seven more bodies in the burn area.

The number of people unaccounted for jumped dramatically to 631 people, up from 130 on Wednesday evening.

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-california-fires-woolsey-hill-camp-camp-fire-death-toll-climbs-to-xxx-1542330098-htmlstory.html

wolfpack513

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #713 on: November 16, 2018, 10:09:15 AM »
A time-series of total fires or acres burned is difficult.  Fire fighting techniques, technology have advanced a lot.  Not to mention most starts are human related.  The way to look at is the fuels: ERCs, BIs, 1000-hours etc.   

Increasing evaporative demand, migrating snowpack, pest proliferation, tree mortality all are enhanced by warming. Camp Fire had fuel levels never before seen this late in the season.  Regardless of if PG&E’s line started it,  AGW has had a significant effect on fuels. 

Martin Gisser

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #714 on: November 16, 2018, 12:23:46 PM »
What's up with that Santa Susana Field Lab now?  Folks are sharing a Russia Today story (won't click nor link) and the Cosmopolitan reports about Kardashians (who's that?) living nearby. Google in Germany gives no serious sources. Anything?

Sparkles

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #715 on: November 16, 2018, 12:42:26 PM »
This seems to be the thread to follow

https://www.twitter.com/bradleysa

gerontocrat

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #716 on: November 16, 2018, 01:02:03 PM »
What's up with that Santa Susana Field Lab now?  Folks are sharing a Russia Today story (won't click nor link) and the Cosmopolitan reports about Kardashians (who's that?) living nearby. Google in Germany gives no serious sources. Anything?
Has anyone, will anyone, take samples of this contaminated air and find out what are the levels of contaminants (including any ooh-nasties from the  "Contaminated Santa Susana Field Laboratory, Close to Site of Partial Meltdown" ?( e.g. The Physicians for Social Responsibility - Los Angeles.,)

Attached is a map of contaminants found in the soil - at offsite locations. (from the tweets)

Statement by Physicians for Social Responsibility - Los Angeles (@PSRLA)
🔎 https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2018/11/12/18819057.php

Quote
The California Dept. of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC), which has regulatory oversight over the parties responsible for cleaning up the contamination – the Dept. of Energy, NASA, and the Boeing Company – signed legally binding agreements to fully cleanup the contamination by 2017. However, the cleanup has not even begun and DTSC is considering vastly weaker cleanup plans. “If DTSC and those responsible for polluting SSFL had not broken their cleanup commitments, we wouldn’t be facing the prospect of contamination now being driven off site by the fire,” said Duffield.

“The Woolsey Fire likely released and spread radiological and chemical contamination that was in SSFL’s soil and vegetation via smoke and ash,” said Dr. Bob Dodge, President of Physicians for Social Responsibility-Los Angeles. “All wildfire smoke can be hazardous to health, but if SSFL had been cleaned up long ago as DTSC promised, we’d at least not have to worry about exposure to dangerous radionuclides and chemicals as well.”

A statement released by DTSC approximately 10 hours after the fire began said the agency doesn’t believe the fire caused the release of hazardous substances. Mohsen Nazemi, Deputy Director for DTSC’s Brownfields & Environmental Restoration Program, participated in a community meeting Sunday night in Woodland Hills, repeating the same unfounded denials and leaving without taking questions.

“We’ve learned not to trust anything DTSC says, so we’re demanding independent testing and air monitoring for radiation and chemicals from SSFL,” said Melissa Bumstead, a West Hills resident whose daughter has twice survived leukemia that she believes was caused by SSFL. Bumstead’s Change.org petition urging that SSFL cleanup commitments be upheld has been signed by over 430,000 people. “DTSC has made one broken promise after another, and it wasn’t truthful about SSFL’s contamination long before the fire started.” said Bumstead. “Why would we believe DTSC’s statement that the fire caused no additional risk, when they know they’re the ones responsible for SSFL still being contaminated in the first place?”

Marie Mason, Simi Valley resident and co-founder of the Rocketdyne Cleanup Coalition, agrees. “We’re outraged that after all these years, decades of foot-dragging by DTSC, an agency that is captured by polluters, may have resulted in even more toxic exposures. We’ve always worried about a fire at SSFL, and now a massive wildfire has started on site itself. SSFL could have and should have been cleaned up a long time ago.”

PSR-LA’s Duffield said, “While we must await the final investigation of the cause of the fire, the presently available evidence indicates it appears to have begun on the Santa Susana Field Lab, and the failure to clean it up has significantly increased risks to the public nearby.”
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 01:23:19 PM by gerontocrat »
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Pmt111500

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #717 on: November 16, 2018, 01:42:28 PM »
Aww how cute of them to refer Pu-238 numbers compared to background levels. Cs-137 is another one, they must've measured the backgrounds right after cessation of atmospheric nuke tests.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #718 on: November 16, 2018, 05:53:25 PM »
EPA's RadNet doesn't show any extreme spikes (... then again, the EPA said the air around the World Trade Center/ 911 was healthy as mother's milk)

Though there seems to be a slight uptick in background around the time of the fire (due to smoke?)

https://www.epa.gov/radnet/near-real-time-and-laboratory-data-state#CA


Note: scale is semi-log

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Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Martin Gisser

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #719 on: November 16, 2018, 08:12:35 PM »
Though there seems to be a slight uptick in background around the time of the fire (due to smoke?)
I bet it's due to the smoke. Heavy metals and radionuclides accumulate in tree bark and soil funghi.
(That's why I always cut the bark from my fire wood, to minimize contamination of my garden compost from my ashes.)

To check this theory, mercury data would be good.


Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #720 on: November 16, 2018, 08:45:46 PM »
Quote
A relief center in California recognized its susceptibility to losing grid power due to wildfires, and installed a micro-grid of solar and batteries, with a diesel backup. 

Out-frigging-standing.

I hope they take full advantage of the concept of efficiency as the first fuel. The diesel generator should only work at optimum RPM. No need to throttle. 100% of the power it produces at it's most efficient RPM's should be used to charge the batteries and then shutdown.  The batteries should dispatch power only as needed. No need to over generate power to provide for demand spikes

 I hope the facility develops an SOP to operate in a sort of "low power mode" when running on backup power. A state of minimum energy consumption could be achieved by things like turning unused lights off, unused equipment and keeping high awareness among the staff and patients of the low power conditions.

If all emergency facilities were energy independent climate change will have a much tougher  time killing us.

Looks like there is lots of efficiency logic built into the system:
Quote
”...The system is run by Tesla’s smart software that is able to seamlessly switch between power sources as conditions change and send excess solar power back into the grid for others to use.”

They say that they got the idea after they worked with Tesla to restore power at key health facilities in Puerto Rico, where they lost an estimated 80 percent of the island’s vaccines and other medicines that require refrigeration after the hurricanes destroyed the electric grid last year.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #721 on: November 16, 2018, 09:18:30 PM »
The bizarre and frightening conditions that sparked the Camp Fire
https://grist.org/article/the-bizarre-and-frightening-conditions-that-sparked-the-camp-fire/
Article has lots of links.

Carl Quintanilla on Twitter: A burned neighborhood in #ParadiseFire: (via @NBCNews)
https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1063249673669013510
Image below.

Brian L Kahn on Twitter: "Satellite imagery from before and after the Camp Fire is just horrifying
https://twitter.com/blkahn/status/1062738175813148672
GIF at the link.

Camp Fire evacuees in Walmart tent city told to leave
http://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article221747730.html

Deadly Camp Fire sparks new lawsuit against California utility
https://grist.org/article/deadly-camp-fire-sparks-new-lawsuit-against-california-utility/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #722 on: November 16, 2018, 09:21:58 PM »
Smoke From Camp Fire Making Sacramento the Most Polluted City on Earth
by Dr. Jeff Masters
Quote
Smoke from California’s Camp Fire has settled into Central California’s valleys and cities and refuses to leave, like a bad case of bronchitis one simply can’t shake. On Friday, the pollution became so severe that all schools in the San Francisco Bay area were closed, including area colleges, and the city’s iconic cable cars were taken out of service. The state capitol, Sacramento, also closed all of its schools. This is a rare and extremely dangerous air pollution episode, and I’m not familiar with a case where a major U.S. city shut down all of its schools for wildfire smoke. A Berkeley Earth website that tracks global pollution levels has consistenly shown Sacramento, California as having the worst air pollution for any major city on Earth over the past day, beating out the big cities in India and China that usually hold that position.
https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Smoke-Camp-Fire-Making-Sacramento-Most-Polluted-City-Earth

Lizzie Johnson on Twitter: "Breathing the air in San Francisco today is the equivalent of smoking 11.5 cigarettes. And in Paradise, it's closer to 22 cigarettes. #CampFire"
https://twitter.com/lizziejohnsonnn/status/1063495963887595520

Xiao Ma (@xiaoma) 11/16/18, 1:31 AM
AQI in perspecitives: San Francisco, Beijing, and Delhi.
https://twitter.com/xiaoma/status/1063318703113035776
Graphs below.
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Paddy

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #723 on: November 16, 2018, 09:46:24 PM »
Anyone else anticipating that life expectancy in the USA will be dropping a little further this year?

Martin Gisser

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #724 on: November 16, 2018, 11:13:06 PM »
Image below.
What a perspective!  :o Is it beautiful or harrowing?

Looks like the trees will survive the house fires. Amazing. And those houses burn really hot.

(As I said already: American houses are a fire hazard. One wooden thing right next to the other. American suburbia looks suicidally stupid to me. It's not just in CA. Also seen in Arizona in the desert...)

A completely different housing crisis now.  :'(

------------------
P.S.: Looks more like a trailer park?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 11:23:37 PM by Martin Gisser »

wdmn

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #725 on: November 16, 2018, 11:18:42 PM »
If there is a silver lining, there's an opportunity here to do a really good job rebuilding communities according to better plans and standards. Absolutely insane to rebuild the same way in the same places. No more three car garages!

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #726 on: November 17, 2018, 04:19:22 PM »
Image below.
What a perspective!  :o Is it beautiful or harrowing?

Looks like the trees will survive the house fires. Amazing. And those houses burn really hot.

(As I said already: American houses are a fire hazard. One wooden thing right next to the other. American suburbia looks suicidally stupid to me. It's not just in CA. Also seen in Arizona in the desert...)

A completely different housing crisis now.  :'(

------------------
P.S.: Looks more like a trailer park?

Most of the trees are burned to death, it’s difficult to tell from the photo.  Trees continue to burn inside even when the outside looks cool.
Yes, I believe this is from a mobile home park.  Keep in mind that land is very expensive in California, so most people cannot afford spacious grounds.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #727 on: November 17, 2018, 04:21:01 PM »
Brianna Sacks (@bri_sacks)
11/16/18, 9:47 PM
Officials have been using dental records and fingerprints to identify #campfire victims, but they’re now going to utilize this rapid DNA machine and are asking parents and children of missing people to go to the Chico Sears and submit a mouth swab
https://twitter.com/bri_sacks/status/1063624718488494080
Extensive Thread.  30 sec vid at the link describing the rapid DNA machine.

Nothing Can Prepare The People Who Have To Search For Charred Bodies After The California Wildfires
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/search-rescue-california-wildfire-victims

Umair Irfan on Twitter: "THREAD - I spent the past few days in Northern California reporting on the #CampFire. I wrote a couple articles on the human impacts of this disaster, which is now the deadliest and most destructive wildfire in state history. ...”
https://twitter.com/umairfan/status/1063554601633214465
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Pmt111500

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #728 on: November 18, 2018, 01:31:05 PM »
As the possibly only Finn here, it is perhaps for me to say that Trumps' side-mouthed gargle about finnish forestry is quite inaccurate. 
Cooling the outside by heat pump.

TerryM

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #729 on: November 18, 2018, 03:11:05 PM »
What's up with that Santa Susana Field Lab now?  Folks are sharing a Russia Today story (won't click nor link) and the Cosmopolitan reports about Kardashians (who's that?) living nearby. Google in Germany gives no serious sources. Anything?


A rather aged report from 2016 provides some history of the Santa Susana Field Laboratory.

https://www.rt.com/usa/341636-us-nuclear-workers-compensation/

I'd not been aware of the 1959 problems that were kept under wraps for so long, even though my wife was working for the EPA in Nevada in the early 60's.
OT, but the last of her field supervisors died (of cancer) in 2004. The nuclear test facilities must have saved $Millions in pensions over the years. :-X

Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #730 on: November 18, 2018, 04:06:50 PM »
As the possibly only Finn here, it is perhaps for me to say that Trumps' side-mouthed gargle about finnish forestry is quite inaccurate.

Good to know.  We were apparently supposed to think all Finns were out “raking up the forest.”  ::)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #731 on: November 18, 2018, 04:12:37 PM »
Evacuation plan 'out the window' when fire hit California town
Quote
When a “megafire” engulfed Paradise, California, officials and residents had to abandon their evacuation plans and improvise new ways to save lives, learning lessons that could help the growing number of U.S. communities at risk to wildfires. ...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-wildfires-evacuation/evacuation-plan-out-the-window-when-fire-hit-california-town-idUSKCN1NM0G5

Southern California:
Why California Authorities Are Sharing This Terrifying Video of a Woman Escaping a Wildfire
http://time.com/5454126/la-sheriffs-shares-video-malibu-fire-escape/

California searches for 1,000 missing in its deadliest fire
Quote
Forensic recovery teams pressed their search for more victims in the flame-ravaged northern California town of Paradise on Friday as authorities sought clues to the fate of about 1,000 people reported missing in the state’s deadliest wildfire on record.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-wildfires/california-searches-for-1000-missing-in-its-deadliest-fire-idUSKCN1NL1CH
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #732 on: November 18, 2018, 06:13:57 PM »
Editorial: Camp Fire, the tragedy we were all warned about – Chico Enterprise-Record
Quote
“Nobody would have ever thought this could happen,” President Donald Trump said while touring the Camp Fire devastation Saturday.
That’s not true. The Camp Fire was inevitable. It is the event that so many dreaded for so long.

People prepared. Fire prevention officials planned. They drilled. They worked with homeowners. They invented fire-safe councils and Fire on the Ridge and sent fire prevention officials to schools via a program called Fire Pals. They raised money to keep fire lookouts open when the state said it wouldn’t.

Eventually, geography and topography proved to be the trap everyone thought it was. ...
https://www.chicoer.com/2018/11/17/editorial-camp-fire-the-tragedy-we-were-all-warned-about/

Friends of Science (@FriendsOScience)
11/18/18, 12:28 AM
Very brave editorial. Everyone wants to blame #climatechange instead of addressing this tragic reality.  Ppl must learn from it. #Tragedy
https://twitter.com/friendsoscience/status/1064027432796139520
Photos, text image, article and fire prevention information at the link.
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vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #733 on: November 18, 2018, 08:28:15 PM »
No Way Out! ...

Satellite imagery of Camp Fire seven hours after it started
https://wildfiretoday.com/2018/11/16/satellite-imagery-of-camp-fire-seven-hours-after-it-started/

Deer Creek Resources of Chico, California has produced four images that show the Camp Fire about seven hours after it started near Pulga, California on November 8, 2018.  Zeke Lunder used data from LANDSAT 8 with the infrared heat layer to map the location of the fire at 1:10 p.m. PST. By that time it was burning thousands of homes in Paradise.

https://twitter.com/DeerCreekGIS/status/1063125888269570051
Quote
We used LANDSAT 8 imagery to create these infrared visualizations of the initial push of the #campfire. @CAL_FIRE @usfs_psw @R5_Fire_News


Individual homes in flames


Escape Route Skyway Blvd: In flames




Paradise in flames!

On Saturday, Cal Fire officials went house-to-house inspecting damage. Search-and-rescue teams, clad in white hazmat jumpsuits and yellow helmets, drew crosses with orange spray paint in front of residences and on cars. Vehicles were also adorned with yellow and pink flags to indicate those surveyed for survivors and the deceased.

Lots of people died in their cars,” said a Cal Fire worker.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #734 on: November 19, 2018, 03:54:07 AM »
A power line malfunctioned shortly before the fire was first reported. Evacuation notices came late, if at all. The town escape routes turned into traffic jams as the fire popped tires and melted steering wheels.

California fire: What started as a tiny brush fire became the state’s deadliest wildfire. Here is the story of how Paradise burned.
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-camp-fire-tictoc-20181118-story.html
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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #735 on: November 19, 2018, 08:08:46 AM »
As the possibly only Finn here, it is perhaps for me to say that Trumps' side-mouthed gargle about finnish forestry is quite inaccurate.
No you're not Pmt, but here's Rohdes take on that nonsense:

https://twitter.com/RARohde/status/1064073322089074688
Quote
And, of course, it is easy to compare Finland and California because they have very similar climates.
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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #736 on: November 19, 2018, 12:58:33 PM »
Peter Kalmus:
https://twitter.com/ClimateHuman/status/1064207182260883456
Quote
Listening to @NPR @KPCC this Sunday morning. Lots of emotional coverage of fires. No mention of climate. Par.

And then just now: "Good news at the gas pump..."

People, it's fossil fuel. That cheap gas is warming the planet, which is causing the deadly fires. What will it take?

Well, Californian gas prices are certainly not similar to ours.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #737 on: November 19, 2018, 08:35:17 PM »
Lizzie Johnson is an important Paradise Fire storyteller, reporting for the San Francisco Chronicle.

A fire, a newborn baby and a pact: Tales of survival from Paradise
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/A-fire-a-newborn-baby-and-a-pact-Tales-of-13402034.php

After Camp Fire, cops patrol a ruined Paradise: ‘There’s really no one to watch over’
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/In-Paradise-police-adjust-to-roles-as-both-13393413.php

Paradise Town Council meets, shattered by fire’s devastation but doing its duty
https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/Paradise-Town-Council-s-agenda-road-projects-13390335.php
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #738 on: November 19, 2018, 09:00:05 PM »
Camp Fire: Walmart parking-lot refuge closed as weather worsens
Quote
Officials shut down the tent city on Sunday, citing safety reasons over temperatures in the 30s, rain in the forecast and the need to connect to services at the official shelters.

Yet there were still hundreds of Camp Fire evacuees in the Walmart parking lot and the adjacent field as of Sunday night.
...
Federal Emergency Management Agency administrator Brock Long said rebuilding homes in Paradise is not the first thing that needs to be done in the community.

Much of the infrastructure in the town was destroyed by the fire and will need to be rebuilt first, he said.

Debris left from the fire needs to be removed before homes and businesses can be rebuilt, he said.

“It’s a new normal. You’re not going to be able to rebuild Paradise the way it was,” Long said. “It’s one of the worst disasters I’ve seen in my career.”
https://www.redding.com/story/news/2018/11/15/camp-fire-evacuees-walmart-parking-lot-new-crisis-brewing/2020250002/



Latest stats on the Camp Fire:

Acres Burned - Containment:  151,000 acres - 66% contained
Structures Threatened:   14,500
Structures Destroyed:   11,713 residences, 472 commercial and 3,388 other buildings
http://www.fire.ca.gov/current_incidents/incidentdetails/Index/2277
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #739 on: November 19, 2018, 09:12:19 PM »
VCFD PIO: "#Woolseyfire is now 94% contained and 95,949 acres. The firefighters are working diligently to get full containment. We are expecting full containment on 11/22/18. ...”
https://twitter.com/VCFD_PIO/status/1064553239503233024

1,500 structures burned.  Updated report at the link.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #740 on: November 21, 2018, 03:11:47 AM »
Significant rain in the forecast for southern California.  Los Angeles County has readied dozens of sandbag distribution sites for people to prepare for flooding and mud flows from the burn scar area.

LACounty Fire PIO (@LACoFDPIO)
11/20/18, 8:03 PM
#WoolseyFire *INFO* to help residents prepare for the coming rain we’ve put together a comprehensive list of sandbag distribution sites in both #LACounty and #VenturaCounty.
https://twitter.com/lacofdpio/status/1065047928622858240
Text image at the link.

NWS QPF image below.

Edit: here’s the NWS warning:
NWS (@NWS) 11/20/18, 7:49 PM
Multiple rounds of heavy rain and mountain snow are forecast for the West from Wednesday through #Thanksgiving into Friday. There is an elevated concern for flash flooding, mudslides and debris flows near wildfire burn scars in #California. See weather.gov for more.
https://twitter.com/nws/status/1065044372301983744
Precip maps at the link.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 03:31:31 AM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #741 on: November 21, 2018, 03:37:52 AM »
More trouble in Paradise: Camp Fire region braces for floods and mudslides
Quote
Northern California faces a new threat in the aftermath of the disastrous Camp Fire: Weather forecasters are growing more confident that downpours, which could bring flash floods and mudslides, are headed for the fragile, scorched terrain.

On Monday night, the National Weather Service issued flash-flood watches for recent burn areas, in preparation for a series of heavy rainfall events arriving between Wednesday and Friday.

The forecast prompted an escalation of ongoing search and recovery efforts in Paradise, with fears that the rains could wash away the remains of fire victims, reducing the chances of families of the hundreds of residents still listed as missing finding closure.

Kory Honea, the sheriff of Butte County, told the Associated Press that the looming rains means that it’s within the “realm of possibility” that officials might never be able to determine the fire’s exact death toll.
...
Current forecasts call for as much as six inches of rain near Paradise — about as much as the region gets in an average November — arriving in the span of just a few days. That kind of a deluge would not only frustrate recovery efforts, but it could also spawn mudslides and flash floods by turning the newly barren soil into a roiling, debris-filled torrent. That the still-burning fire that started this whole mess could be extinguished in the process is almost an afterthought. ...
https://grist.org/article/more-trouble-in-paradise-camp-fire-region-braces-for-floods-and-mudslides/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #742 on: November 21, 2018, 03:42:18 AM »
Airbnb hosts offer free housing to evacuees displaced by California wildfires
Quote
With California’s recent cluster of devastating wildfires destroying homes and claiming lives, Airbnb is offering some shelter to displaced residents in its home state. This week, the company added free housing listings to serve evacuees affected by the Hill and Woolsey Fires outside Los Angeles and the Camp Fire in northern California.
The free Airbnb housing is currently available through November 29, 2018 for both displaced residents and relief workers helping out with recovery. The Camp Fire area shows as many as 700 participating homes in the area and the Hill and Woolsey fire areas show more than 1,400. ...
https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/14/airbnb-hosts-offer-free-housing-to-evacuees-displaced-by-california-wildfires/



Garance Franke-Ruta (@thegarance)
11/20/18, 9:06 AM
This is nuts. Where is FEMA? // With disease in shelters and hotels at capacity, wildfire evacuees desperately seek refuge
https://twitter.com/thegarance/status/1064882630984982533
Link to WaPo article at the link.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #743 on: November 21, 2018, 09:18:16 PM »
Further to what Sigmetnow wrote yesterday, here is the NOAA Quantitative Precipitation Forecasts for Nov. 21-24 (times/dates on chart are GMT, so you have to subtract 8 hours to get local time).  The brown color is 7-10 inches or ~180-250 mm.  Paradise, California (and Camp Fire location) approximately circled. 

National Weather Service 2-day forecast for Paradise itself.

Actual accumulation in "Garbo Gap" which is about 5 mi (8 km) east of Paradise (as best I can tell), per NWS (0.20" or 5 mm so far)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 09:30:53 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #744 on: November 22, 2018, 05:09:08 PM »
Dave Toussaint: "#CampFire UPDATE 11/21 - - 83 fatalities, 59 identified, 563 missing. - 18,431 structures destroyed (residential/commercial combined) - 153,336.acres burned, 85% containment"
https://twitter.com/engineco16/status/1065435761275617280


1,643 structures destroyed.
LACounty Fire PIO: "#WoolseyFire *UPDATE* Incident Fact Sheet for Wednesday evening November 21st: 96,949 and 100% contained. ...”
https://twitter.com/LACoFDPIO/status/1065433681857114112
Report at the link.

The burn scar from California's Woolsey Fire is visible from space
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1065432463076409344
Image below.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #745 on: November 23, 2018, 03:07:25 PM »
Rain update for Pleasure, I mean, Paradise.  Rain since the fire:  2.45" (62 mm) with 1.6" more predicted today, per the National Weather Service (3-day history and hourly forecasts)
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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #746 on: November 23, 2018, 06:51:50 PM »
Rain update for Pleasure, I mean, Paradise.  Rain since the fire:  2.45" (62 mm) with 1.6" more predicted today, per the National Weather Service (3-day history and hourly forecasts)
And now the soil gets washed away. Not good. A recipe for desertification. No soil, no water. And it will get even hotter: Less plants, less cooling by evapotranspiration. Forget California :(

Bruce Steele

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #747 on: November 23, 2018, 08:45:56 PM »
 Forget California :(
The climate vice may squeeze but I wouldn't write us off. As with acidification , adapt, adapt.
Almost anyone could survive a forest fire with a good sealed root cellar and a full scuba bottle.
 I really believe individual adaptation is far more useful than political activism. Nature , the mother of invention, and all that.
 

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #748 on: November 24, 2018, 09:52:54 PM »
"The rain is over. The rain is over. The rain is over and gone."  (Sacred Harp song: last words in the anthem.)
Rain total since fire:  3.01 inches (76mm)

Rain update for Pleasure, I mean, Paradise.  Rain since the fire:  2.45" (62 mm) with 1.6" more predicted today, per the National Weather Service (3-day history and hourly forecasts)
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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #749 on: November 25, 2018, 02:47:35 AM »
Quite cheered me up to read that, Bruce!