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Rodius

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1950 on: January 10, 2025, 04:15:33 AM »
I'm keeping tabs on the Los Angeles fires, which is incredible in the worst possible way, and I am a little surprised that climate change isnt being talked about as a significant contributing factor.

And the hate on insurance companies is high but they have said they cant insure against fire because they cant do it due to the high risk factors.

The conversation should be on why insurance companies refuse fire insurance. If they say fire is so high risk that the properties are uninsurable, surely this fires is a sign that they are correct.

And they base their decisions while factoring in climate change.

I have a feeling these fires will not change the approach in the US concerning climate change. I wonder what needs to happen to get people to take it deadly seriously.

trm1958

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1951 on: January 10, 2025, 01:31:45 PM »
Go to Barnhardt Memes to see how it is being blamed on DEI making LAFD incompetent.

Richard Rathbone

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1952 on: January 10, 2025, 02:26:50 PM »
Go to Barnhardt Memes to see how it is being blamed on DEI making LAFD incompetent.

LAFD may well be incompetent. The London Fire Brigade's incompetence was the reason so many people died in Grenfell Tower. They weren't responsible for the tower burning down, but if Grenfell Tower had been in Kent rather than London, almost everyone would have escaped. Too much  focus on  process and ignoring outcomes.  No one kicking arse when identified problems hadn't been fixed. A whole bunch of problems that had been known for years or decades all combining together in one disaster. However, they do appear to have largely got the people out, the property burnt may well be the consequence of building houses in fire-prone forests rather than the LAFD.

johnm33

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1953 on: January 10, 2025, 03:16:59 PM »
Quote
the property burnt may well be the consequence of building houses in fire-prone forests rather than the LAFD.
It's no more difficult to build fire resistant buildings or to plant fire resistant greenery surrounding them.

etienne

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1954 on: January 10, 2025, 03:40:56 PM »
Quote
the property burnt may well be the consequence of building houses in fire-prone forests rather than the LAFD.
It's no more difficult to build fire resistant buildings or to plant fire resistant greenery surrounding them.
It is not more difficult,  but way more expensive and requires regular controls otherwise the fire resistance is lost over the years, each transformation of the building can reduce the fire protection efficiency, even simple things like adding lights on an outside wall.

For the ones who understand German.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2025, 04:09:59 PM by etienne »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1955 on: January 10, 2025, 04:52:12 PM »
Hemmed in between mountains and ocean, land available for Los Angeles homes is limited, very expensive, and has expanded into canyons with few evacuation routes. Since land is so precious, homes are built quite close to each other, with no firebreak between them, so if one catches fire, it’s likely others will, too — especially during a wind event such as the Santa Ana.

Additional risks include environmental regulations that have prevented regularly creating fire breaks on forest land, and recent budget crunches where choices were made to reduce LA’s firefighting fleet, and prevented the water reservoirs meant for fighting fires from being filled.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2025, 05:44:14 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1956 on: January 10, 2025, 05:05:17 PM »
The median home value in the Palisades is about $3.5 million, which is why some are saying that this fire could be the "costliest" in U.S. history. There are 9,000 homes in the area. Reportedly ~75% of the Palisades has been leveled.
1/8/25, https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1877152430523040247

—- Emergency Communications
 
A government system of cell phone text alerts for emergencies mistakenly sent an evacuation warning across the entire Los Angeles County yesterday afternoon, California time.
 
Quote
Los Angeles Scanner
  Someone just sent an evacuation warning across the entire LA County. That was definitely not supposed to happen
1/9/25, https://x.com/losangeles_scan/status/1877508097360671181
 < Yeah it was a false alarm. They sent another shortly after to rectify it.
<< Haven’t seen the follow up message
   —-
⬇️ image below.
   —-
abc just said it was supposed to only be woodland hills, calabasas and agoura hills
1/9/25, https://x.com/katwants2cry/status/1877508431457710305
 
Worse, the alert linked to a website which promptly crashed due to the heavy traffic, so no one could get the details.

Then they did it again, in the middle of the night…
Quote
They’ve just screwed it up again and woken up 10M people at 3:57 am. …
People aren’t going to trust alerts if they are not reliable… Insane.
1/10/25,  https://x.com/michaelbaylor_/status/1877687310285693219

=====
Help from above
 
SpaceX has reconfigured their Starlink constellation so their newly-added Direct-To-Cell (DTC) satellites can provide texts in the fire-ravaged area where cell phone towers are not working.  The service is limited for now to those using Starlink’s cell partner, T-Mobile.
 
Quote
SpaceX
 
For those in the Los Angeles area, the @Starlink team and @TMobile have enabled basic texting (SMS) through our Direct to Cell satellites. You can now text loved ones, text 911 and receive emergency alerts.
1/9/25, https://x.com/spacex/status/1877547777858687231
 
Texting should now work in LA even when there is no cellular service if you use @TMobile
1/9/25, https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1877560971973329273

Other countries which have signed agreements for Starlink DTC include Canada, New Zealand, Japan, Australia, Switzerland, Chile, Peru and Ukraine.
 
Details: https://x.com/i/grok/share/Yd0XAKzHp426UX6JZpNM9mtLO

More such service will be possible after SpaceX adds its next generation satellites to their constellation, which could begin as soon as this year.  These satellites are much larger and can only be launched on Starship — but dummy sats of the same size and weight will be deployed as a test during the next Starship flight, scheduled for Monday, Jan 13.  (The flight’s suborbital trajectory means they will burn up/ fall into the ocean.  Don’t freak; this happens to the first stage of all orbital rockets — except the Falcon 9, which lands ;).  [Details and news at the SpaceX thread in The Rest section.])

 
—- Reinforcing the importance of good communications during wildfires and other natural disasters, which are becoming more frequent in our warming world:
 
PBS’s Frontline just released their episode reporting on the failings during the 2023 Lahaina, Maui, Hawai’i fire that led to it be the highest fatality fire in the US in 100 years.  With few ways out of Lahaina, critical evacuation routes were blocked as police closed intersections due to downed wires, unsure whether the electric company had turned off the power.

MAUI'S DEADLY FIRESTORM
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/mauis-deadly-firestorm/
53 min.
 
Background stories also at the link.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2025, 05:24:01 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1957 on: January 10, 2025, 09:03:19 PM »
Palisades Fire   20,438 acres    8% contained
 
Eaton Fire   13,690 acres   3% contained
 
5 fatalities, 10,000+ structures destroyed.
 
https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents/

 
Pacific Palisades reservoir was offline and empty when firestorm exploded
January 10, 2025
https://www.aol.com/news/pacific-palisades-reservoir-offline-empty-163924906.html
⬇️  image below
 
Article summary:
The Pacific Palisades reservoir, which holds 117 million gallons of water, was offline and empty due to scheduled maintenance when a significant wildfire broke out in the area. This situation contributed to difficulties in firefighting as numerous fire hydrants in higher elevations ran dry, leaving firefighters with low water pressure. The revelation has sparked questions about the management of water resources during critical times, especially since the National Weather Service had warned of dangerous wind conditions prior to the fire. The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (DWP) officials noted that while the city has vast water storage capabilities across its infrastructure, the absence of the Santa Ynez Reservoir's capacity during the fire likely affected water availability in the upper regions of Pacific Palisades.

—-
Quote
A firefighting aircraft collided with a drone while attempting to contain the Palisades Fire, northwest of Los Angeles, the Federal Aviation Administration said on Thursday.
 
The FAA launched an investigation after learning about the incident, which underscored the dangers of drones interfering with wildfire response efforts.
 
None of the firefighters were reported to be injured in the incident, and the plane was able to safely land despite damage to the Super Scooper.
 
The FAA said in a statement, "It’s a federal crime, punishable by up to 12 months in prison, to interfere with firefighting efforts on public lands. Additionally, the FAA can impose a civil penalty of up to $75,000 against any drone pilot who interferes with wildfire suppression, law enforcement or emergency response operations when temporary flight restrictions (TFRs) are in place."
1/10/25, https://x.com/aviationbrk/status/1877619016048447820
⬇️  image below
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Florifulgurator

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1958 on: January 11, 2025, 05:34:52 PM »
the property burnt may well be the consequence of building houses in fire-prone forests rather than the LAFD.
It is about fire-prone property!.

I've seen it over and over and over again and again: What remains standing is chimneys and trees.

It is f-ing obvious that you can't insure property that is a fire hazard against fire.

(My Bavarian eyes are quite rolling. My 150y old poor farmers house only is at risk from fire started inside. It is simple hand-made/fired bricks from local clay. The fire-proof shingles are expensive industrial mid 20th century. It would take two hours to make windows and roof fire storm resistant. In the age of millions of plastic bottles I would have an auto-extinguisher under the roof.)
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1959 on: January 11, 2025, 07:06:49 PM »
Calif. Fair Plan insurance , the insurer of last resort, has about 6 billion $ exposure in Palisades alone. Calif. Fair has about 2 million $ of reserves and can access another 2 billion from other reinsurance but that still leaves about 3 billion short to just cover losses for one fire. The average house in Palisades is 3.5 million and Calif. Fair only covers up to 3 million so there are going to be uninsured losses for many homeowners there. In order to cover the huge gap between the covered losses and available reserves the state will be forced to put a fee on every insured property in the state so many poorer individuals will be bailing out the rich. The only way out of the cost spiral in insurance is going to be self insurance . So people in high risk fire areas should keep their own 5 thousand gallon tank of water on their property and fight fire rather than pack up and run. There will be more human losses but maybe less property damage.

etienne

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1960 on: January 11, 2025, 08:24:32 PM »
Just wondering, since I have no idea how it works in the US.
Is there no bankruptcy or force majeur for the insurance?

Are many expensive houses insured at the Calif. Fair Plan insurance? I would imagine that a coverage up to 1M is already a lot for a state supported insurance, I guess that only the building is insured, not the plot.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1961 on: January 11, 2025, 10:32:36 PM »
UPDATE

INCIDENT     COUNTIES     STARTED     ACRES   CONTAINMENT
Palisades Fire   Los Angeles   1/07/2025   22,660   11%
Eaton Fire   Los Angeles   1/07/2025   14,117   15%
Kenneth Fire   LA, Ventura   1/09/2025   1,052   80%
Hurst Fire   Los Angeles   1/07/2025       799   76%

7 Fatalities: Preliminary pending coroner confirmation

12,300+ Structures Destroyed
Damage assessments are underway for Palisades & Eaton Fires

 
—- Houses that survived the Cali wildfire.
 
• Metal roof against embers, rocks instead of greenery, & a concrete based wall barrier definitely helped.
From:
https://x.com/picturesfoider/status/1877775861237055821
 
https://x.com/kristennetten/status/1877942357150310766
 
 
• It's not a miracle. It's called "concrete."
1/11/25, https://x.com/saul_sadka/status/1878102588668752037
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1962 on: January 11, 2025, 10:43:11 PM »
Just wondering, since I have no idea how it works in the US.
Is there no bankruptcy or force majeur for the insurance?

Are many expensive houses insured at the Calif. Fair Plan insurance? I would imagine that a coverage up to 1M is already a lot for a state supported insurance, I guess that only the building is insured, not the plot.

Financial Stability and Reinsurance
 
The FAIR Plan has been described as one major disaster away from financial insolvency, with limited surplus funds and reliance on reinsurance. If a large wildfire leads to claims exceeding its reserves and reinsurance, participating insurers might need to assess policyholders to cover the deficit, effectively making all Californians indirectly liable for the costs.
 
https://www.eenews.net/articles/every-california-homeowner-could-pay-tab-for-la-wildfires/

More here, with additional links: https://x.com/i/grok/share/Ug9ri5uPl6XvakHJlSeJlIW99
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1963 on: January 11, 2025, 11:08:07 PM »
Insurance companies canceled hundreds of policies in Palisades last year leaving those canceled to find another carrier or use the Calif. Fair plan. 
https://www.livemint.com/news/us-news/californias-top-insurer-cancelled-hundreds-of-policies-months-ahead-of-los-angeles-wildfire-report-11736517721056.html#
 Rebuilding costs on multimillion dollar properties means premiums need to rise at rates to compensate insurance carriers risk but regulations limit rate increases so the insurers just walk away and cancel policies .
 As inflation hits everywhere you have to wonder when costs to maintain infrastructure or rebuild it after catastrophe leaves more and more real assets unsupportable?

oren

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1964 on: January 11, 2025, 11:26:12 PM »
I am guessing a significant part of the price of homes in the affected areas is due to the price of land for building. The land is not lost when fire hits. So the damage and the rebuilding cost should be lower than the home price. At least that's how it goes in my locality. Is that not so in the US?

Bruce Steele

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1965 on: January 11, 2025, 11:54:20 PM »
Oren, Yes but when coverage is capped at 3 million and your 10-30 million dollar mansion burns you will still be on the hook for several million to rebuild. The average home cost in Palisades is 3.5 million but there are many more expensive properties.

vox_mundi

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1966 on: January 12, 2025, 01:57:27 AM »
 California Gov. Gavin Newsom launched a website Saturday aimed at addressing the online spread of wildfire-related misinformation and disinformation, according to a news release.

The site, CaliforniaFireFacts.com, serves to combat false information spread on the internet and “and by political leaders around the Southern California wildfires,” the release states.

There is an astonishing amount of mis- and dis-information being spread online – much of it by so-called leaders and partisan media outlets who seek to divide this country for their own political gain. It breaks my heart that families in Los Angeles don’t just have to worry about the fires but also this malicious disinformation as well,” Newsom said in the release.

http://californiafirefacts.com/
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The Walrus

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1967 on: January 12, 2025, 06:42:55 AM »
Just wondering, since I have no idea how it works in the US.
Is there no bankruptcy or force majeur for the insurance?

Are many expensive houses insured at the Calif. Fair Plan insurance? I would imagine that a coverage up to 1M is already a lot for a state supported insurance, I guess that only the building is insured, not the plot.

Financial Stability and Reinsurance
 
The FAIR Plan has been described as one major disaster away from financial insolvency, with limited surplus funds and reliance on reinsurance. If a large wildfire leads to claims exceeding its reserves and reinsurance, participating insurers might need to assess policyholders to cover the deficit, effectively making all Californians indirectly liable for the costs.
 
https://www.eenews.net/articles/every-california-homeowner-could-pay-tab-for-la-wildfires/

More here, with additional links: https://x.com/i/grok/share/Ug9ri5uPl6XvakHJlSeJlIW99

It is too soon to say for sure, but estimates are that wildfire claims will exhaust the funds in the FAIR plan.  How much could covered by reinsurance is questionable.  If it does lean on current insurers and policy holders, that will likely lead to more insurance companies exiting the state.

etienne

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1968 on: January 12, 2025, 02:39:19 PM »
Oren, Yes but when coverage is capped at 3 million and your 10-30 million dollar mansion burns you will still be on the hook for several million to rebuild. The average home cost in Palisades is 3.5 million but there are many more expensive properties.
I guess the situation is problematic if the debt is higher than the coverage. Because you probably can clean up much of the mess for around 200'000 US$ and get for as low as 200'000 US$ a nice temporary house. Maybe you still need around 100'000 US$ to link the house to the water, electricity, telecom and sewage network. When the main house is rebuilt, you can keep the temporary house for gardening tools and storage.

Availability might be the worst problem.

We really have here a force majeur. I can't imagine that it can be solved with standard solutions.

The Walrus

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1969 on: January 12, 2025, 05:38:33 PM »
Oren, Yes but when coverage is capped at 3 million and your 10-30 million dollar mansion burns you will still be on the hook for several million to rebuild. The average home cost in Palisades is 3.5 million but there are many more expensive properties.
I guess the situation is problematic if the debt is higher than the coverage. Because you probably can clean up much of the mess for around 200'000 US$ and get for as low as 200'000 US$ a nice temporary house. Maybe you still need around 100'000 US$ to link the house to the water, electricity, telecom and sewage network. When the main house is rebuilt, you can keep the temporary house for gardening tools and storage.

Availability might be the worst problem.

We really have here a force majeur. I can't imagine that it can be solved with standard solutions.

You cannot find much in most places in the U.S. for that amount.  In California, there is likely nothing, especially with a the additional thousands looking.   

etienne

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1970 on: January 12, 2025, 06:03:39 PM »
In Europe,  you can get things like below for not too much money.
I wouldn't mind getting one and put it in the garden if my house would be burned.
https://french-craft.fr/tiny-house-france/la-claudette

Availability is of course an issue,  but that will also be an issue when rebuilding the house.

During the 6 months following the last major flooding in Luxembourg,  it wasn't possible to get any non urgent work done in houses in Luxembourg,  workers were all overbooked. And it was nothing compared to what is happening now in LA.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2025, 06:11:32 PM by etienne »

morganism

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1971 on: January 13, 2025, 12:06:20 AM »
(Konrad has been ranting lately, mostly bout needing more assholes in govt, but his bitchn bout ships is well informed)

John Ʌ Konrad V @johnkonrad

Quick questions (1/2):

If Biden can spend hundreds of millions and sacrifice 3 American lives to build an emergency pier for Gaza, why can’t he spend a few million to activate SEABEES (based in—checks notes—Ventura, CA) to build a water-pumping pier at Pacific Palisades and - checks notes - Ventura?

If we can send massive Navy amphibious assault ships with water ballast tanks thousands of miles for earthquake relief, why can’t one sail up from San Diego to help save LA?

If the Army Corps of Engineers already has massive ships in California, why aren’t they being deployed?

If Army joint doctrine requires them to support National Guard units, why hasn’t anyone requested landing craft to move water tanks onto the beaches?

And if @US_TRANSCOM can spend tens of thousands on a private jet to fly the LA Mayor home from Ghana, why can’t they fly emergency water tanks and firefighting equipment into LA?

If US Navy helicopters can practice dumping water off coronado in San Diego - checks notes - yesterday. Why can’t fly a 150 miles north and practice on actual fires?

Please make it make sense.
(more)

https://nitter.poast.org/johnkonrad/status/1877739189346914400#m
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1972 on: January 13, 2025, 03:02:17 AM »
In Europe,  you can get things like below for not too much money.
I wouldn't mind getting one and put it in the garden if my house would be burned.
https://french-craft.fr/tiny-house-france/la-claudette

There are some tiny houses in the U.S.  They can be quite attractive.

But FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) has a history of using travel trailers/ camper vans/ caravans to provide shelter for families, away from home in safe locations after disasters.  They are fairly cheap, very quick to bring in and set up, and easy to remove later.

Given California’s reputation for environmental regulations, I can only imagine most people will be waiting many months or longer before their land is certified as clean enough and ready for home rebuilding; part of that is because so much of the utilities infrastructure needs to be replaced.  Huge projects aren’t completed overnight.  And I would think that replacing the original houses with much smaller ones might be denied because it would lower a neighborhood’s property values.  However, Los Angeles will probably be forced to rewrite a lot of their code, to get the area back on its feet, so we’ll see what they come up with.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1973 on: January 13, 2025, 03:06:42 AM »
And if things weren’t bad enough, another round of damaging winds is expected over the LA fire area this week.
 
Quote
NWS Los Angeles
Heads up! Strong, locally damaging, NE/E winds will affect West LA Co. & much of Ventura Co thru Wednesday. Critical fire weather is expected, so PLEASE have multiple ways of getting notifications in case of new fires & prepare ahead of time. #venturacounty #LA #Cawx #Socal
1/12/25, 5:14 PM https://x.com/nwslosangeles/status/1878566192996372732
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1974 on: January 13, 2025, 03:24:10 AM »
Casey Handmer, PhD

The Eaton and Palisades fires are burning almost exclusively on land that hasn't burned in at least 20 years.

The only super active part of the Eaton fire is on the northern edge that hasn't yet burned.

Palisades still has plenty of fuel in the Santa Monica Mountains.
 
1/11/25, 1:43 PM ➡️  https://x.com/cjhandmer/status/1878150746039812580
Maps and pics at the link. A couple below.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1975 on: January 13, 2025, 08:27:09 PM »
In Europe,  you can get things like below for not too much money.
I wouldn't mind getting one and put it in the garden if my house would be burned.
https://french-craft.fr/tiny-house-france/la-claudette

There are some tiny houses in the U.S.  They can be quite attractive.

But FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) has a history of using travel trailers/ camper vans/ caravans to provide shelter for families, away from home in safe locations after disasters.  They are fairly cheap, very quick to bring in and set up, and easy to remove later. …

On the other hand, Paolo Tiramani, CEO at BOXABL, posted:
Quote
🚨 @BOXABL can ship 200 homes to Cali immediately. The factory only 250mi away, can make 3,000 homes a year, put down then relocated as required. We’re in touch with state officials, hopefully can help 🙏 🏠 the displaced.
 
Please share this. Parker@boxabl.com if you can help 🚨
1/8/25, https://x.com/paolombtiramani/status/1877169431677153723
 
——
 
CalFire Website as of Jan 13, 2pm ET:
 
40,588 Acres Burned

19 Fatalities
12,300+ Structures Destroyed

INCIDENT       COUNTIES      STARTED      ACRES   CONTAINMENT
Palisades Fire Los Angeles   1/07/2025   23,713   14%
Eaton Fire     Los Angeles   1/07/2025   14,117   33%
Hurst Fire     Los Angeles   1/07/2025      799   95%
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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1976 on: January 13, 2025, 08:36:13 PM »
They should probably wait until the winds are done...
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1977 on: January 14, 2025, 12:13:24 AM »
Jan 9
Updates
Palisades fire  17,234 Acres, 0% contained.
Hurst fire  855 Acres, 10% contained.
—-
NEWS: The Los Angeles wildfires are set to be the costliest in U.S. history, analysts said today, with total economic losses set to surpass $60 billion.
That includes insured losses of more than $20 billion, nearly double the previous costliest wildfire ever in the U.S.

1/9/25, 12:33 PM https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1877408299693346917


Just now on CNBC: Loss estimates, including loss of employment:  $150 billion to $270 billion.
 
FAIR plan released a statement today saying it’s too soon to know the total claims, or if it will need to go to other insurers for money.  But it noted it operates on a cash-in, cash-out basis for claims.  So if it doesn’t have the money, you don’t get paid.
 
Previous reports say their cash on hand is limited….
 
   —-
 
recovery.lacounty.gov gives some indication of the state of various homes, but is “far from updated.”

     —-
From The Weather Channel:
 
CalFire has over 60 aircraft — the largest civilian aviation fire-fighting fleet in the world.  Strategically placed around the state so they are able to reach the most remote areas of California within 20 minutes. 
 
But high winds and extremely high temperatures around large fires can make flying nearly impossible. And when winds are above 30mph, air drops become very ineffective — the fire retardant and the water end up only as a mist, instead of a steady rain.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Rodius

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1978 on: January 14, 2025, 12:30:24 AM »
This is the story of how our current society isnt affordable. This is one city in one country and teh cost to fix the issue is huge.

What happens when another city gets smashed in the same year?

What happens when it happens in LA next year?

Some day in the future, this event will be seen as the first example of when we couldnt maintain our cities from natural events.

John_the_Younger

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1979 on: January 14, 2025, 08:37:57 AM »
The destruction in LA is bad, but in November 2018, 18,804 structures burned in Paradise (CA).
On 8 October 1881, a series of fires in Michigan, Wisconsin and Chicago burned nearly 10,000,000 sq. km. and killed at least 3,000 people; entire towns burned up.

My point is: yes this is a big deal, but worse has happened.  I appreciate the point that climate change is increasing the odds of major fires that burn at least 10,000 structures.  The series {1881, 2018, 2025} makes me wonder if any of our homes will be around by the end of next year!  :o

SteveMDFP

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1980 on: January 14, 2025, 01:25:17 PM »
Some day in the future, this event will be seen as the first example of when we couldnt maintain our cities from natural events.

Worse will come, though probably not by fire.  The next Cascadia quake is due, and will likely devastate the entire US pacific northwest.  See:

The Really Big One
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one

And then there's the Campi Flegrei supervolcano.  It gets less attention than the relatively quiescent Yellowstone, but is far more dangerous.  From just yesterday:

New earthquake swarm in Campi Flegrei, Italy
https://watchers.news/2025/01/13/new-earthquake-swarm-in-campi-flegrei-italy/

The Walrus

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1981 on: January 14, 2025, 02:38:42 PM »
The destruction in LA is bad, but in November 2018, 18,804 structures burned in Paradise (CA).
On 8 October 1881, a series of fires in Michigan, Wisconsin and Chicago burned nearly 10,000,000 sq. km. and killed at least 3,000 people; entire towns burned up.

My point is: yes this is a big deal, but worse has happened.  I appreciate the point that climate change is increasing the odds of major fires that burn at least 10,000 structures.  The series {1881, 2018, 2025} makes me wonder if any of our homes will be around by the end of next year!  :o

Yes, historically disasters have been much worse.  Some ancient structures are still standing, but most homes and buildings do not.  Yet, people survive and civilization moves on.  Lessons learned will be important going forward, lest we repeat the past.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1982 on: January 14, 2025, 04:03:45 PM »
Paolo Tiramani, CEO at BOXABL, posted:
Quote
🚨 @BOXABL can ship 200 homes to Cali immediately. The factory only 250mi away, can make 3,000 homes a year, put down then relocated as required. We’re in touch with state officials, hopefully can help 🙏 🏠 the displaced.
 
Please share this. Parker@boxabl.com if you can help 🚨
1/8/25, https://x.com/paolombtiramani/status/1877169431677153723

They should probably wait until the winds are done...

The LA Basin’s topography intensifies and focuses regional wind’s effects to that specific area. (Downsloping, warming and channeling them.)  But, wind or no wind, there is no open space for the quick addition of thousands of single homes in LA.  That’s the reason the neighborhoods were so tightly packed together in the first place.

——-
 
The Weather Channel, 9pm Jan 13:
 
Another Particularly Dangerous Situation for fire weather due to winds Tuesday-Wednesday.
 
LADWP has 8.5 billion gallons of water in open-air reservoirs ready.
24 people killed in the Palisades & Eaton fires in CA.
World Central Kitchen distributing hot meals at six locations.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2025, 04:19:37 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Rodius

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Re: Wildfires
« Reply #1983 on: Today at 02:09:43 AM »
The destruction in LA is bad, but in November 2018, 18,804 structures burned in Paradise (CA).
On 8 October 1881, a series of fires in Michigan, Wisconsin and Chicago burned nearly 10,000,000 sq. km. and killed at least 3,000 people; entire towns burned up.

My point is: yes this is a big deal, but worse has happened.  I appreciate the point that climate change is increasing the odds of major fires that burn at least 10,000 structures.  The series {1881, 2018, 2025} makes me wonder if any of our homes will be around by the end of next year!  :o

Some ancient structures are still standing, but most homes and buildings do not.  Yet, people survive and civilization moves on.  Lessons learned will be important going forward, lest we repeat the past.

Changing climatic conditions is a surprisingly common factor in collapsed societies throughout history... so it isnt true that civilizations survive and move on, they tend to die when climate alters beyond the norms in the region it occupies.

We are not learning the lessons at all because we arent adapting to the climate change event that we can stop if we decided to, lessons learned would be to listen to the experts on climate and take it seriously because science has proven itself to prevent disasters before (ozone hole, vaccines, and so on).

And given the fact that we have what we have now because the global climate has been unusually stable for 12,000 years, the change that is happening is almost certainly going to remove our global civilization.

Fires in LA is one small part but this isnt the first time LA has burned yet it keeps happening... where are the lessons learned?

Hurricanes on the US East Coast are a problem already.
Other countries, like India, has serious problems with clean water and it will worsen as the glaciers disappear. That is 1 billion people without enough water... that wont stay in India. Why havent we learned the lesson that clean water is rare and needs to be treated in the manner it deserves?

The US is guilty of destroying its fresh water supplies or simply pumping out faster than it can be replaced.

We are not learning the lessons at all, and the few we do take notice of and act on are mostly a bandaid on the problem and not a solution for the cause.

If LA wants to truly fix the fire problem one of the first steps is changing the agriculture in the State, to resource measures to guide fires that are based on science and not what they are doing, they would be world leaders in removing all fossil fuels from everything in the State and be a vocal advocate for fighting climate change.

Lessons learned... yeah, nah.