Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Becoming Vegan  (Read 83022 times)

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2487
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 273
  • Likes Given: 23170
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #250 on: February 04, 2020, 06:12:47 PM »
Thank you very much Bruce. Beautiful to read.

Re: difficult to answer question.
I would not know how to answer that either. Do you have contact with others in a comparable situation?

How many farmed pigs get to die from old age? :)
I think you are doing more than good and wish that you appreciate and compliment yourself with how few farm animals in our western world have such a relatively good life (what a contrast, e.g. you respect the individual pigs) and wish yours and your pigs to continue to live like that for a long time. May good things fall your way.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #251 on: April 13, 2020, 08:27:44 PM »
"People can live without beef."
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,3010.msg259659.html#msg259659

Meat packing plants across the U.S. are closing as their employees become infected with the COVID-19 virus.  Will it affect people’s diets long term?
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #252 on: April 21, 2020, 03:41:37 PM »
Starbucks teams with Beyond Meat and others to launch plant-based menu in China
April 20, 2020
Quote
Starbucks Corp. is teaming up with Beyond Meat Inc. (BYND, +13.95%) and two other companies to launch a plant-based lunch menu in China. Starbucks announced Monday night that it will start offering plant-based proteins from Beyond Meat and Omnipork, and non-dairy beverages from Swedish oat milk brand Oatly. The new items, which include a pesto pasta, a lasagna and a Vietnamese-style noodle salad, will be available at Starbucks locations in China starting Tuesday.

"Today we mark an important milestone as Beyond Meat launches in China, advancing our goal of increasing accessibility to plant-based protein globally," Ethan Brown, Beyond Meat's founder and chief executive, said in a statement.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/starbucks-teams-with-beyond-meat-and-others-to-launch-plant-based-menu-in-china-2020-04-20
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #253 on: April 27, 2020, 05:50:12 PM »
KFC to test plant-based chicken nuggets in China
Published: Apr. 27, 2020
Quote
KFC China said Monday that it will test plant-based chicken nuggets at three locations between April 28 and April 30. Sourced from Cargill, the nuggets will be finished with water chestnut after cooked. KFC Plant-Based Chicken Nuggets will be sold in a five-piece serving. Customers must have a pre-sale coupon to purchase. The participating KFCs in Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Shenzhen will get a green makeover during the test period. The chicken chain already tested the item on the app from April 20 through April 23 and sold 7,000 servings.

KFC China is part of Yum China Holdings Inc. (YUMC) KFC in the U.S., part of the Yum Brands Inc. (YUM) portfolio, previously tested plant-based chicken in Atlanta. Starbucks Corp. (SBUX) recently announced that it has partnered with Beyond Meat Inc. (BYND) and others to add plant-based food to its menu. Yum China stock is down 2.4% over the last year while the S&P 500 index (^GSPC) is down 3.5% for the period.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/kfc-to-test-plant-based-chicken-nuggets-in-china-2020-04-27
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #254 on: May 09, 2020, 02:29:59 AM »
Johnson at quilette: Sinclair redux

" sheds containing tens of thousands of birds stacked on top of one another, with no room to satisfy any of their basic instincts like nest building, dustbathing, and perching, and where disease and serious injury are constant facts of life ... grow so quickly that their bones can’t cope with the weight. These conditions are so stressful that they lead to what’s known as “sudden death syndrome”—a fit of stress-driven convulsions and cardiac arrhythmia that virtually never happens outside factory farms."

"a chicken producer gets a full score if three percent or fewer of its birds have “broken or dislocated wings.” Given the number of chickens produced every year, three percent would be 270 million birds. However, producers can still get partial credit if up to four percent of their birds (360 million) have broken wings."

"some birds are scalded alive ...  described birds going alive and conscious into the scalding "

"deformities, eye damage, blindness, bacterial infections of bones, slipped vertebrae, paralysis, internal bleeding, anemia, slipped tendons, twisted lower legs and necks, respiratory diseases, and weakened immune systems are frequent and long-standing problems"

"the incomprehensible suffering we’re inflicting on these animals is putting human lives at risk"

"Of all antibiotics sold in the United States, approximately 80 percent are sold for use in animal agriculture; about 70 percent of these are ‘medically important’ (i.e., from classes important to human medicine)… There is growing evidence that antibiotic resistance in humans is promoted by the widespread use of nontherapeutic antibiotics in animals. Resistant bacteria are transmitted to humans through direct contact with animals, by exposure to animal manure, through consumption of undercooked meat, and through contact with uncooked meat or surfaces meat has touched."

"these are drugs that people need, and we’re teaching pathogens how to resist them."

“Any talk of pandemic influenza today cannot ignore the fact that the most devastating disease event the world has ever known [the Spanish flu], and one of the greatest health threats before us today, has everything to do with the health of the world’s farmed animals, birds most of all.”

"The number of birds who live out their short and brutal lives in slaughterhouses is already astronomical—50 billion is an underestimate, as it excludes the number of male chicks that are “macerated” (thrown into grinders), asphyxiated, or killed in some other way."

"No animal on Earth is treated with more inhumanity than chickens, and this industrial cruelty has in turn made chickens and other birds one of the gravest threats to our health ... how we treat the creatures we eat may well determine the fate of our species."

https://quillette.com/2020/05/05/poultry-farming-covid-19-and-the-next-pandemic/

sidd

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2487
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 273
  • Likes Given: 23170
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #255 on: May 09, 2020, 05:14:00 AM »
Thank you for a number of interesting posts today sidd.

 About the article above:
It are not just birds but also pigs and other animals that are treated this way in intensive agri-indrustry. (I reluctantly skip the fur-industry and wild animal trade in this post)

This fact alone, the extreme low morality of how we treat our fellow animals, should make people want to buy only organic produce, where the life of the animals is like a heaven compared to that described in the article above, or stop people from eating meat altogether.

Organic produce is a bit more expensive and harder to find, that's all, but it will make a heaven/hell-of-a-difference to the life and health of the animals you eat. Further positive effects are less pesticides and artificial fertilizers (less nitrogen), less antibiotics application, no growth-hormones, more biodiversity, less mono-culture, less habitat-loss, fewer transport miles (non-globalized), less deforestation and lower methane emissions (from lower antibiotics use, less growth-hormones and more varied fodder).

Note: not all countries have certified 'organic' labelling from an independent well-established institute. I understand that the U.S.A. has no such certification for organic produce. The E.U. has this for some time now: the green leaf-of-stars mark.

 R.I.P.: Love, Caring and Empathy.
Why does the majority buy these poducts? Don't they have a heart? Will they change after they've been inside such an industrial torture venue? Or are only children still sensitive enough to be influenced by that?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

vox_mundi

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 10163
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3510
  • Likes Given: 745
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #256 on: May 18, 2020, 02:16:44 PM »
India's ''Superfood'Jackfruit Goes Global
https://phys.org/news/2020-05-india-superfood-jackfruit-global.html

Green, spiky and with a strong, sweet smell, the bulky jackfruit has morphed from a backyard nuisance in India's south coast into the meat-substitute darling of vegans and vegetarians in the West.

... The fruit, which weighs five kilogrammes (11 pounds) on average, has a waxy yellow flesh when ripe and is eaten fresh, or used to make cakes, juices, ice creams and crisps.

When unripe, it is added to curries or fried, minced and sauted. In the West, shredded jackfruit has become a popular alternative to pulled pork and is even used as a pizza topping.

"You get a hard bite like meat—that's what is gaining popularity and like meat it absorbs the spices," comments Joseph.

His firm sells jackfruit flour which can be mixed with or used as an alternative to wheat and rice flour to make anything from burger patties to local classics such as idli.

... As global warming wreaks havoc on agriculture, food researchers say jackfruit could emerge as a nutritious staple crop as it is drought-resistant and requires little maintenance.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― anonymous

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #257 on: May 18, 2020, 03:09:59 PM »
jackfruit could emerge as a nutritious staple crop as it is drought-resistant and requires little maintenance[/b].

jackfruit ain't no superfood, it contains very little protein and lots of sugar. just like banana. It's just a fruit.

vox_mundi

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 10163
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3510
  • Likes Given: 745
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #258 on: May 18, 2020, 03:20:25 PM »
What makes jackfruit unique from other fruits is its protein content. It provides more than 3 grams of protein per cup, compared to 0–1 grams in other similar types of fruit, such as apples and mangoes.

When the fruit is ripe, it’s super sweet. But the unripe fruit has not converted starch into sugar and has a more neutral, less sweet taste
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― anonymous

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3342
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 602
  • Likes Given: 409
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #259 on: May 18, 2020, 04:22:21 PM »
I hate it when they label anything 'super food,' but jackfruit is not exactly 'just like a banana.' It has about twice the protein per calorie than bananas do. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/jackfruit-benefits#section2

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods/bananas

But of course, nothing close to meat. But few people have serious problems with lack of protein in their diet. More have the opposite problem.

I have had jackfruit prepared in such a way that it was essentially indistinguishable from pulled pork--not sweet at all. Made for a very tasty vegan cubano!
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #260 on: May 30, 2020, 08:14:50 AM »
Kill the pigs: too expensive to keep alive

"a whistleblower employed by Iowa Select has provided extensive details to The Intercept about the extraordinary methods now being employed to kill pigs — agonizingly and over the course of many hours — in increasingly large numbers."

" being “depopulated,” using the industry’s jargon, by sealing off all airways to their barns and inserting steam into them, intensifying the heat and humidity inside and leaving them to die overnight. Most pigs — though not all — die after hours of suffering from a combination of being suffocated and roasted to death. The recordings obtained by The Intercept include audio of the piercing cries of pigs as they succumb. The recordings also show that some pigs manage to survive the ordeal — but, on the morning after, Iowa Select dispatches armed workers to enter the barn to survey the mound of pig corpses for any lingering signs of life, and then use their bolt guns to extinguish any survivors."

"it first experimented on a smaller group of hogs by just shutting off the airways into their barn and turning up the heat. Other employees told similar stories to DxE investigators. After those experiments failed — the oxygen-deprived pigs survived over the course of many hours, the whistleblower said, due to a failure to increase "the heat to fatal levels — Iowa Select decided to begin injecting steam into the barns, to accelerate the accumulation of heat and humidity. "

"they are slaughtering these now “worthless” animals in vast numbers as fast as possible, using extermination methods that cause sustained suffering and agony, to avoid the costs of keeping them alive."

"The quickest and most merciful way to induce death for so many animals at once — shooting them in the head one by one — would be too emotionally traumatizing even for factory farm employees"

"the hidden audio recorders placed in the barn as part of DxE’s investigation, sustained screams of distress and agony are audible as the heat fills the building while the air supply is shut down."

"pigs are social animals at least as intelligent and emotionally complex as dogs, who experience the full range of emotions from life — joy, playfulness, love, connection, pain, loss, suffering and grief ... bred by industrial agriculture to live in extreme deprivation, which often includes being confined for years in cages so small they can never even turn around, living in festering disease, and being genetically modified to be more profitable to the point that their own distorted bodies cause constant pain "

"the pandemic, while having no effect on the inherent moral value of these sentient beings, has stripped them of their commercial worth. And that has resulted in the industry using extermination methods outside of the standard processes, producing new ethical and moral horrors in an industry that was already suffused with them."

"Iowa Select Farms brands itself as an ethical, animal-friendly company, and its website repeatedly emphasizes the company’s ethical concern for its animals. "

"Iowa Select claims, in the words of one of the industry newsletters, that “veterinarians and production well-being professionals are overseeing the process to ensure accordance with the American Association of Swine Veterinarians and American Veterinary Medical Association.” "

"The Iowa-based American Association of Swine Veterinarians (AASV) receives ample financial support from corporations with involvement in the industrial agriculture. The AASV did not respond to inquiries from The Intercept about its relationship to the pork industry or to its role in Iowa Select’s use of ventilation shutdown."

" the AASV, at exactly the time Iowa Select discovered that its mass extermination of pigs had been recorded by animal rights investigators, publicly decreed that ventilation shutdown could be justified given the exigencies of the coronavirus pandemic."

“physical methods usually require a more direct association of the operator with the animals, which can be offensive to, and upsetting for, the operator.”

“Those making the decision to depopulate must be mindful of the emotional impact of the procedure on owners of the animals, laboratory technicians, conservation managers, emergency response personnel, veterinarians, and the community at large.”

Read the thing if you have the stomach:

https://theintercept.com/2020/05/29/pigs-factory-farms-ventilation-shutdown-coronavirus/

The last two paras i quoted depict a touching concern for human killing the pigs. What about the pigs ? My opinion of the AASV is that they should try ventilation shutdown for themselves.

sidd

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2504
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #261 on: May 30, 2020, 05:46:18 PM »
Sidd, Before I would kill pigs like that I would prefer a torturous death for myself .

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #262 on: May 30, 2020, 09:09:31 PM »
What makes jackfruit unique from other fruits is its protein content. It provides more than 3 grams of protein per cup, compared to 0–1 grams in other similar types of fruit, such as apples and mangoes.


All fruits contain negligible amounts of protein, basically nothing. Jackfruit contains 1.7 grams per 100 gram. But many other fruits contain similar amounts, eg:
Bananas contain 1.1 g. Apricots contain 1.4 g. Avocados 2 g. Guavas 4 g. Blackberries 1.4 g

So once again: nothing special about jackfruit proteinwise either - though I understand that you like them, no problem with that

(you would need to eat 4-6 kg of the above fruit to cover your protein needs. I love fruits, almost all of them. I eat cca 1 kg each day (when i get melons I eat much more). As a true fruitlover i can tell you that eating enough fruits to cover your protein needs is almost impossible.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2487
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 273
  • Likes Given: 23170
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #263 on: May 31, 2020, 04:39:40 AM »
The lesson from sidd's post above and the contrasts with Bruce's pig farm is clear: Not all meat is the same!
Please make this distinction when talking about meat/no-meat that there are more ways to get meat than from intensive industrial agriculture.

I only buy meat from organicly raised animals because I buy meat according to this ordered list of priorities:
  • How the animals are treated, how much of a 'natural' life they got. The morality of it, or ethics if you want.
  • How the rest of living nature is treated (habitat, deforestation, biocides, water pollution, artificial nutrients run-off etc.)
  • How humans are treated working in these farms/industries.
  • The quality of the meat (what did the animal eat and application of anti-biotics, growth-hormones and pesticides)
  • Transport kilometres/miles.
  • Last on the list: The price of the meat. When it's too expensive for me I don't eat meat. I won't forgo of my principles because of money.


Edit: Two nice youtube video's of organicly raised pigs:
(1m37) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkZRGAI1y_M?t=xx
(7m11) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eydJHtc0uos?t=xx    ('Tamworth' pig)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 04:47:35 AM by nanning »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2504
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #264 on: May 31, 2020, 05:45:06 AM »
Nanning , Sidd understands the distinction but my horror and I think Sidd’s horror is this is sanctioned by a veterinary assoc.  I have great respect for veterinarians and I cannot understand how anyone
, especially a vet , could sanction using heat stress to kill pigs.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2487
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 273
  • Likes Given: 23170
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #265 on: May 31, 2020, 06:51:51 AM »
Netherlands.

A victory for the ethical organisations such as 'Varkens in Nood' ('Pigs in Distress') and 'Dier & Recht' ('animal & rights') and 9 more.
This is an important step for better animal well-being and our general morality.

In Netherlandic:
  https://www.varkensinnood.nl/nieuwsartikelen/succes-cameratoezicht-in-alle-nederlandse-slachthuizen


RESULT: From now on there will be camera's in all slaughterhouses!

Now they're fighting to get the camera's' images publicly live streamed.
And to discuss and change live animal transports (international, intercontinental), especially because many borders are now closed for the pandemic and there are long lines of waiting trucks (and ships) with live animals.


P.S. Bruce I'm with you all the way and I am aware that sidd understands. There should be a Hippocratic Oath for veterinarians (without the medical confidentiality). All (independent) inspection reports should be made public.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #266 on: May 31, 2020, 07:23:45 AM »
Making everything public is not always the solution, first of all because you can't control everything and cheaters might get better rankings than people doing the job seriously. I prefer a size limitation (number of animals) and a transport limitation (maximum time in a truck). I heard that the police doesn't like to control international pigs' transport because there is almost always a problem, and they don't know what to do with the pigs when they stop the truck.

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #267 on: May 31, 2020, 08:58:20 AM »
I think it is mostly not about how these animals die but how they lived.
The only "ethical" way to keep animals in my mind is keeping them as "naturally" as possible, ie. let them live outside, let them have as much free space as possible, let them eat the food they are intended to consume, etc. Chicken should be picking weeds and earthworms and bugs; pigs should freely roam around; cows should eat  grass on the field and not grains.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #268 on: May 31, 2020, 09:34:45 AM »
That veteraniarian postition was indeed shocking. But I am also horrified by mass production of meat as is practised today. The animals live a horrible life, and as we see die a horrible death. The average meat eater is never exposed to the brutality.

I love the idea of cameras in animal barns and slaughterhouses with live stream. Perhaps that will expose more people to exactly what happens before they get to eat the thing.

I sometimes think that all meat eaters should at least witness how the animals they eat are actually raised and killed and dressed, if not participate.

sidd
 

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #269 on: July 21, 2020, 07:21:01 PM »
KFC has teamed up with a Russian biotech company to 3D-print chicken nuggets
Quote
According to a recent press release, KFC wants to become a "restaurant of the future" by "crafting the 'meat of the future,'" with help from a Russian company called 3D Bioprinting Solutions. This initiative, "arose among partners in response to the growing popularity of a healthy lifestyle and nutrition, the annual increase in demand for alternatives to traditional meat and the need to develop more environmentally friendly methods of food production."

If all goes to plan — which is definitely a thing that happens in the Hell Year 2020 — KFC will begin to sell the world's first lab-grown chicken nuggets in Moscow in the fall.

These lab-grown nuggies will of course still feature the same blend of 11 spices and herbs that made them famous, while combining chicken cells with plant material, "allowing it to reproduce the taste and texture of chicken meat almost without involving animals in the process." It's not clear if they'll be vegan friendly, or if they're meant to vaguely compete with fully plant-based meats like the Beyond or Impossible Burger.

The press releases — shared verbatim across companies — includes some thoughts on the project's environmental sustainability as well:

Biomeat has exactly the same microelements as the original product, while excluding various additives that are used in traditional farming and animal husbandry, creating a cleaner final product. Cell-based meat products are also more ethical – the production process does not cause any harm to animals. Along with that, KFC remains committed to continuous improvement in animal welfare from the farm and through all aspects of our supply chain, including raising, handling, transportation and processing.

Also, according to a study by the American Environmental Science & Technology Journal, the technology of growing meat from cells has minimal negative impact on the environment, allowing energy consumption to be cut by more than half, greenhouse gas emissions to be reduced 25 fold and 100 times less land to be used than traditional farm-based meat production. ...
https://boingboing.net/2020/07/20/kfc-has-teamed-up-with-a-russi.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8235
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #270 on: July 22, 2020, 02:02:43 PM »
I think the chicken cells make it of limits for vegans. Any vegan around to comment?
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #271 on: July 22, 2020, 06:34:51 PM »
Quote
KFC has teamed up with a Russian biotech company to 3D-print chicken nuggets

kassy,
Would the FOOD thread be a better fit for this?  That’s where I used to put new/artificial food items, but I seem to recall getting pushback because it “wasn’t a consequence” or some such.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8235
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #272 on: July 22, 2020, 10:02:48 PM »
Of the two this is the better fit.

The other is for consequences, this is more of a solution.

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #273 on: October 20, 2020, 04:45:38 PM »
July: Reporter so confident @nzlabour party won’t win enough votes to govern alone, he pledges to go vegan for a year if they do.
October: Reporter goes vegan.
Duncan Garner: I'm going vegan and it's a terrifying ordeal
Quote
“I'm not doing it because I believe farmers are the devil.  I'm not doing it to save animals. And I do reserve the right to become a fully annoying member of the vegan society and become a judgemental tosser.

Now, for the record you have mostly been encouraging and kind, but when my son heard he said three words to me. The first two were 'what the' and the last one indicates I need to work on my parenting.
He just asked me to cook him a t-bone steak. I think I'm going to struggle to avoid cross-contamination through all of this.

But back to the nice people. Nadia Lim's giving me a sample of her 'My Food Bag' plant-based menu for a week, thank you.

My neighbour Louise woke me up from a nap to gift me a litre of Almond Milk, which I tried immediately with Weetbix. That was dinner.

They've offered to help me should I run out of ideas, so see you tonight Lou.

I'll miss cheese, meat, dairy products and I'll take medical advice to make sure I don't die in a ditch for veganism. …”
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/10/duncan-garner-i-m-going-vegan-and-it-s-a-terrifying-ordeal.amp.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2487
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 273
  • Likes Given: 23170
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #274 on: October 21, 2020, 06:18:45 AM »
I'm curious, do 'vegans' eat scallops and mussels? Squid? Insects?
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #275 on: October 21, 2020, 07:46:54 AM »
I'm curious, do 'vegans' eat scallops and mussels? Squid? Insects?

Nope. Never heard of anyone who did.

...

As for the previous post: any change in dietary habits is hard and frightening but then you get used to it, and it becomes normal for you.

When I became a vegetarian 30 years ago, it was very hard at first. My diet went from almost totally baked, cooked, "predigested" (meatandpotatoes, bread, etc) to cca 50% raw (mostly fruits partly vegetables). It was both socially almost unheard of (and scorned at) here and difficult to do. I lost weight. 10 kgs. That is a lot. Now, on the same diet I am strong, have no health problems to talk of, do a lot of sports (basically every day) and almost never get tired. I sleep like a baby and enjoy life.

I think what most vegans do wrong nowadays that they still eat manufactured, cooked, steamed, whatever, artificial foods instead of eating fresh, raw, natural foods, like raw-pressed vegetable juices, raw nuts and fruits. You don't get healthy from these unnatural vegan foods, actually you will fell tired and weak. You need to aim for at least 30 but rather 50-60% raw

Any change is hard. But some changes are worth trying.   

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 25761
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1153
  • Likes Given: 430
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #276 on: October 24, 2020, 03:10:53 AM »
Beyond Meat Rival Impossible Foods Is Developing Plant-Based Milk
The company has doubled its R&D spend and is researching a "crackable egg."
Quote
Impossible Foods, the privately held chief rival to plant-based meat manufacturer Beyond Meat (NASDAQ:BYND), said on Tuesday it's working on developing plant-based milk for its animal-free product lineup. According to press conference statements quoted by Engadget, the company's Impossible Milk has culinary properties close to or identical with cow's milk, rather than simply being a standard nut or soy milk.

Among the milk-like characteristics Impossible Milk is said to duplicate, it is doesn't curdle in hot liquids such as coffee, tea, or cocoa; can be frothed for cappuccino-making and other purposes; and has a creamy texture similar to the genuine, animal-sourced substance. In a statement quoted by The Washington Post, CEO Pat Brown said the "plant-based milks out there are inadequate" and that the company's research is aiming "to make something that for a dairy milk lover is better than anything that comes from a cow.”

In a comment to The Food Institute, the National Milk Producers Federation senior vice president for communications, Alan Bjerga, said the move "could cause some concerns for people who are currently grinding up almonds, soy, or oats or whatever else they can mix with sugar water and artificial coloring so they can sell it for twice the price of real milk," rather than strongly threatening dairy producers.

Impossible Foods also issued a press release earlier this week declaring it is doubling the size of its research and development department, with the goal of helping "eliminate animal agriculture." According to Engadget, Impossible Foods is also working on the development of a "crackable egg" made out of plant materials, unlike the pourable vegan eggs currently made from flavored canola oil or similar ingredients.

Impossible is one of several companies currently jockeying for market share in the booming plant-based meat market. 
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/10/23/beyond-meat-rival-impossible-foods-is-developing-p/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #277 on: October 24, 2020, 07:53:03 AM »
Beyond meat and impossible foods create monsterfoods that are totally unnatural, made up of so many ingredients from so many countries and are heated, cooled, compressed, mixed, turned upside down, inside out, etc that I bet they are definitely not good for your body and if anyone counted their carbon footprint (palmoil grown in terrible monocultures and shipped from Malaysia, exotic seed cultivated in Africa, soyextract from Brazil, etc) I think it might be above that of meat.

If you want to go vegan for either health or environmental reasons, you need to concentrate on locally, organically grown fruits, nuts, vegetables, grains. Consume as much of them raw as you can. If you worry about protein, tofu has been around for centuries, it is good.

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8235
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #278 on: October 24, 2020, 01:00:20 PM »
And cook your own stuff. Lot´s of ready made food has too much salt, sugar and other additives.

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

vox_mundi

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 10163
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3510
  • Likes Given: 745
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #279 on: February 19, 2021, 04:52:05 PM »
Beyond Burgers: Animal and Plant Cells Combined for 3D-Printed Steaks
https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/green-tech/conservation/3d-printed-meat

Plant-based burgers that taste a heck of a lot like the real thing are now at your local Burger King. And you can find realistic meatless ground beef and sausages at grocery stores. As the next big thing in sustainable and cruelty-free meat, some startups are growing it in labs from animal cells. In December, Singapore became the first country to allow sales of lab-grown chicken from U.S. startup Just Eat.

But the founders of Barcelona-based Novameat want to take a bigger leap. They plan to go beyond chicken strips and processed “meat” to the chewy, muscle-y, juicy taste of whole meat cuts. “We want to create the Tesla Roadster or iPhone moment for the future of food,” says CEO and founder Giuseppe Scionti. “Alternative meats shouldn’t just be for the environment or animals or health,  they should be superior compared to what they’re trying to compete with. The Holy Grail is pork and steak.”

The company is using 3D-printing to get there. In what could be a game-changer for the alternative meat industry, they have now made the world’s largest piece of 3D-printed whole-cut meat analog. And they say their 3D-printing process 150 times faster than their competitors, allowing them to make 1.5 tons of meat substitute per hour.

https://www.novameat.com/

Creating a sirloin steak, with its fibrous protein and marbled fat, from plant-based proteins is a tough recipe to perfect. Novameat’s microextrusion technology, which produces 100–500 micrometer-wide fibers from different ingredients and combines them in precise ratios and organized microstructures, is key to mimicking the mouthfeel, taste, appearance, and nutritional properties of animal meat, says senior food engineer Joan Solomando Martí. The three-year old startup has been using vegetable fat and non-soy plant proteins to make realistic 3D-printed steaks.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― anonymous

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #280 on: February 19, 2021, 09:45:23 PM »
And cook your own stuff. Lot´s of ready made food has too much salt, sugar and other additives.

"best kind of food is made by hand
the only way to get it is from the land"


Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2504
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #281 on: February 20, 2021, 05:08:34 PM »
“Impossible Foods also issued a press release earlier this week declaring it is doubling the size of its research and development department, with the goal of helping "eliminate animal agriculture."
 From Sigmetnow link above.

Bill Gates is a supporter and is buying LOTS of land in the best field pea production areas of the US. Yellow peas production is IMO why Gates is buying farmland. Just to be clear this is just a theory but the Palouse has been one of the best pea production areas and Gates recently bought a $171 million dollar property in Horse Heavens.
https://landreport.com/2021/01/bill-gates-americas-top-farmland-owner/
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 05:21:22 PM by Bruce Steele »

vox_mundi

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 10163
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3510
  • Likes Given: 745
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #282 on: April 28, 2021, 12:38:16 AM »
Epicurious: US Food Website Ditches Beef In New Recipes Over Environment
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56902869

Foodie website Epicurious has said it will no longer publish new recipes containing beef.

For anyone considering adopting a more sustainable way of cooking, cutting out beef was "a worthwhile first step", it said in an article on its website.

https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/why-epicurious-left-beef-behind-article

Cutting out this one ingredient could have a significant impact on making one's cooking more environmentally friendly, it added.

The move was "not anti-beef, but rather pro-planet", two of its editors said.

... they remind their readers that "almost 15% of greenhouse gas emissions globally come from livestock (and everything involved in raising it); 61% of those emissions can be traced back to beef. Cows are 20 times less efficient to raise than beans and roughly three times less efficient than poultry and pork"
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― anonymous

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 10163
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3510
  • Likes Given: 745
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #283 on: June 01, 2021, 09:06:06 PM »
Slaughterhouse Closures Spread After Cyberattack On Meat Producer
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2021/6/1/slaughterhouse-closures-spread-after-cyberattack-on-meat-producer

A cyberattack on the world’s largest meat producer has forced the shutdown of some slaughterhouses globally, and raised concerns about food security.

A cyberattack on JBS SA, the world’s largest meat producer, has forced the shutdown of some slaughterhouses globally, and there are signs that closures are spreading.

JBS’s five biggest U.S. beef plants, which combined handle 22,500 cattle a day, have halted meat processing, according to company Facebook posts, employees and labor unions, following the Sunday attack on the company’s computer networks. Slaughter operations in Australia had already been halted, according to a trade group, and one of Canada’s largest beef plants was idled for its second day on Tuesday.

The prospect of more extensive shutdowns around the world is already upending agricultural markets and raising concerns about food security as hackers increasingly target critical infrastructure. In the U.S. alone, JBS accounts for almost a quarter of all beef capacity and nearly a fifth of all pork capacity. Livestock futures slumped.

The Brazilian meat giant shut its North American and Australian computer networks after an organized assault on Sunday on some of its servers, the company said by email. Without commenting on operations at its plants, JBS said the incident may delay certain transactions with customers and suppliers.

“Retailers and beef processors are coming from a long weekend and need to catch up with orders,” Steiner Consulting Group said in its Daily Livestock Report. “If they suddenly get a call saying that product may not deliver tomorrow or this week, it will create very significant challenges in keeping plants in operation and the retail case stocked up.”

JBS closed meat processing facilities in Utah, Texas, Wisconsin and Nebraska and canceled shifts at plants in Iowa and Colorado on Tuesday, according to union officials and employees. Union Facebook posts also said some kill and fabrication shifts in the U.S. have also been canceled. Pork and chicken facilities across the nation are also being closed by the owner of Pilgrim’s Pride Corp., the second biggest U.S. chicken producer, according to union officials and employees.

JBS is the No. 1 beef producer in the U.S., accounting for 23% of the nation’s maximum capacity compared to rival Tyson Foods Inc.’s 22% share, according to an investor report by Tyson.

The cyber assault affected the Canadian beef plant in Brooks, Alberta, about 190 kilometers (118 miles) east of Calgary, with shifts canceled on Monday and Tuesday, according to Scott Payne, spokesman for United Food and Commercial Workers Canada Union Local 401. The plant processes 30% of Canada’s federally inspected cattle, according to the Canadian Cattlemen’s Association.

... “If it’s a short term scenario, just a week or something that they’re offline, then it’s probably just a minimal hiccup,” said Dalgleish. But “given the size of JBS globally, if they were offline for any more than a week, then we’re going to see disruption to supply chains for sure,”  ...
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― anonymous

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8235
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #284 on: September 08, 2021, 07:11:23 PM »
20 Livestock Companies Generate More Greenhouse Gas Than Britain, France, Or Germany

The meat and dairy industries are responsible for high levels of emissions and food wastage, a new report says


...

The problem with meat and dairy
The Meat Atlas is an annual report based on scientific and official data on meat production and consumption. It’s published by the Heinrich-Boll-Stiftung Foundation – a political foundation affiliated with the German Green Party – alongside Friends of the Earth Europe, the European branch of the world’s largest grassroots environmental network.

The 76-page report found that 20 livestock companies are responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than Britain, France, or Germany.

Further, the five largest meat and milk producers generate the same volume of greenhouse gases as Exxon, one of the world’s largest oil and gas companies.

Land use was also identified as a problem area. The report found that three-quarters of agricultural land around the world is used to raise animals or grow the crops that feed them.

...

Billions of dollars are being poured into these operations, the report notes. In the five years leading up to 2020, global meat and dairy companies were given more than US$478 billion in backing.

The funds came from 2,500 banks, investment firms, and pension funds.

The Meat Atlas said that much financial backing could significantly propel the industries’ output. Meat production could go up by another 40 million tonnes by 2029, reaching 366 million tonnes a year.

A lot of that meat could go to waste if current practices continue. For instance, in France alone, more than 200 million animals in the country’s food system die each year without being used for meat. Animals are culled and disposed for economic reasons, or die from sickness.

...

https://plantbasednews.org/news/environment/livestock-companies-greenhouse-gas/
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #285 on: September 08, 2021, 07:21:47 PM »
The meat and dairy industries are responsible for high levels of emissions and food wastage, a new report says[/i]

I really hate it when people say that this or that company is responsible for Co2 emissions or whatever...when in reality they, the consumers are responsible. It's not Exxon who is responsible, but you, who put gas into your car at the gas station!

Unless we all take responsibility for our consumption not much will change (and this includes food, energy and many many things more)

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #286 on: September 08, 2021, 08:29:57 PM »
El Cid, you have to read the book "The New Climate War" by Michael Mann. He explains very well how promoting individual action can be a way to avoid climate friendly legislation, and that individual action isn't enough.

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #287 on: September 08, 2021, 08:42:54 PM »
Individual action is needed, but we also have to change the economical system to make it more climate and nature (including humans) friendly.
The problem is that I have no idea of how such an economy could look like.
If you read about Gandhi, it's an economy where villages are self sufficient, but I believe that it is an utopia just like communism and like the free market.
How can we make sure we don't go over the limits in a finite world ? Being vegan is such a limit that can be choosen.

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #288 on: September 08, 2021, 08:46:17 PM »
Anyways, we changed the world so much that the concept of village doesn't make sense anymore.

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8235
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #289 on: September 08, 2021, 08:52:15 PM »
The company has a responsibility too. Consumers cannot change cars overnight. The company also already knew it was bad in the long term 50 years ago and then subsidized some lobbyists.

And that is skipping by the detail that somebodies big farms emit more then some sizeable countries. I say we got some targets.

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2476
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 583
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #290 on: September 08, 2021, 09:53:26 PM »
El Cid, you have to read the book "The New Climate War" by Michael Mann. He explains very well how promoting individual action can be a way to avoid climate friendly legislation, and that individual action isn't enough.

Thank you for pointing this out.  Every time someone suggests that "the solution" is for all people to start acting like good global citizens, I get a little pissed off.  Yes, I do think all people should act as good global citizens, but the idea that it could ever happen is just laughable.

Specific policies, specific regulation, and specific legislation are the only real way out of our quandary.  Pointing the finger at individual actions just distracts from the real task at hand--fixing our policies.

With the right policies, *everyone's* behavior changes, whether they "believe" in climate change or not.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2504
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #291 on: September 09, 2021, 02:36:35 AM »
If you are going to use legislation to regulate meat production it would be wise to remember vegans only compromise 2-6% of the public and a good portion of those are < 18 and can’t vote. If you want to be reasonable and make valid claims about animal welfare you can then include a much larger fraction of the public who are concerned about how animals are treated.
 Calif. voted in an anti cage regulation for chickens, veal and pigs in 2018. The pig regulation requires at least 24 sq. ft. for each farrowing sow and will go into effect on Jan 1 2022. Less than one percent of pigs come from farms that currently comply.
 If you want to lay climate change on meat production and still drive your $80,000 Tesla , vacation by round the world air travel then I suggest you start your revolution now. Show up at almost any townhall meeting in the US and give em hell. Dare ya.
 In any meeting I have ever attended it is always wise to count your votes . There is no point in calling for a vote you will certainly lose.
 So if you really want small farmers and rural people who do raise livestock to help in curbing the CFO livestock industry then we need to believe you are committed to animal welfare rather than religious veganism. The enemy of your enemy isn’t necessarily your friend.

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #292 on: September 09, 2021, 08:14:11 AM »
Guys, I was NOT talking about individual action (though that is also important) but individual RESPONSIBILITY. Unless people recognize that their behaviour, consumption patterns, etc. have to change nothing will work.

Yes, we need regulation, legislation and global coordinated government action but telling people that the evil companies are responsible is a lie. Who eats the meat and cheese? As long as there is demand someone, some company will supply the goods. If you think flying 20 times a year is OK, there will always be an airline that provides for you.

My point was that people need to understand that it is their overconsumption that destroys the planet. Alas, as people are people this is unlikely to happen...

As a sidenote I do not hink that forcing people to go vegan is the way to go and despite haven't eaten meat in 30 yrs I do believe that animals have an important function in agriculture (just not as they are mostly used today)

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #293 on: September 09, 2021, 08:52:48 AM »
Regarding responsibility, I feel that talking of the side effects of industrial food production is the only way to put people in front of their responsibilities.
Personally, I find organic and local  added : and fair trade more important than vegan, so I find it good to talk about animal well being and about the CO2 emissions of industrial food. I unfortunately can't say that I'm coherent because life is too complicated. I try but I'm locked in a society an in a culture like most of us are.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 08:59:11 AM by etienne »

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8235
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #294 on: October 08, 2021, 09:51:20 PM »
What if Eating Animals Was the Main Cause of the Climate and Biodiversity Crises?

The inconvenient truth for our species is that we need to adopt vegan lifestyles as a matter of urgency.

...

Now, while we are all in agreement that we must decarbonize our economy to escape the worst ravages of an inhospitable planet, what if we are doing things the wrong way round?

In a report published in the Journal of Ecological Society in 2021, an alternative case was made that will avoid the unfortunate potential for rapid warming caused by eliminating aerosols, which are currently helping to cool the world by as much as 1.8 °F (1 °C).  It will allow us to safely remove powerful greenhouse gases from the atmosphere and lock CO2 safely under forests home to an abundance of wildlife. As an added bonus, it won't require the action of governments and it can buy us a lot of time while we continue to pressure our elected leaders to act.

The author, Dr. Sailesh Rao, terms the two industries destroying life on Earth as the Burning Machine (fossil fuel industry) and the Killing Machine (animal agriculture). We have long been told that the former is leading us down the path to catastrophe and that we must focus all our attention here. Dr. Rao points out the danger in this thinking. He builds on the previous work of Goodland and Anhang who, while working for WorldWatch, published a report in 2009 claiming that animal agriculture was responsible for 51% of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions. This report was based on the Food & Agriculture Organization's Livestock's Long Shadow report in 2006, which found that the Killing Machine was responsible for 18% of emissions.

In the FAO report, the researchers stated that CO2 from animal agriculture amounted to 7.5 Gt of CO2 equivalent (GtCO2e). Goodland and Anhang found that the FAO had completely overlooked respiration by livestock, which they say amounted to 13.7% of CO2 emissions. They based this on the 2005 research of British physicist Alan Calverd who had estimated livestock respiration to be 21% of total manmade CO2 emissions. Crucially, the FAO had ignored respiration entirely on the false belief that livestock are part of a "rapidly cycling biological system" and they even stated that the continued growth of livestock populations "could be considered a carbon sequestration process."

What the FAO was saying is that as livestock were consuming plants that had absorbed CO2 and that the CO2 emitted was roughly equal to that absorbed, their CO2 shouldn't be counted under the Kyoto Protocol. Now, on the surface this might sound plausible but when you consider that cows only exist because we artificially inseminate and breed them for human use, they are no more natural than the smokestack at a coal-fired powerplant. Additionally, we have cut down 46% of trees since human civilization began, so the planet's ability to absorb CO2 has been greatly diminished at a time when factories are filling the atmosphere with CO2 and 1.5 billion cows graze the Earth.

The FAO's argument that livestock are a carbon sink is even more absurd. Even if we take their argument at face value then the amount of carbon stored in livestock is marginal compared to the carbon lost to deforestation. Each cow requires around a hectare of land and each hectare of rainforest stores 200 tons of carbon above ground. After burning, the newly converted hectare now stores just 8 tons. After grazing, the soil can release another 200 tons in a short period. When this land use change is accounted for, a further 4.2% of GHG emissions are added to the Killing Machine's carbon footprint.

...

The solution to the climate and biodiversity crises is about more than the energy we use to power our economy. It's about the energy we use to power our bodies. Of course, there would be no point in changing our diets if we still bred animals for their skins, secretions or entertainment, so the inconvenient truth for our species is that we need to adopt vegan lifestyles as a matter of urgency. By doing this we can allow nature to do what it does best, thus unblocking the "carbon bathtub" we are about to drown in (Figure 3), and then we can dial down our fossil fuel emissions by 11.5% per year, avoid any warming caused by disappearing aerosols and reach carbon zero before we hit 2.7 °F (1.5 °C) in 2032. The best part is that we don't need technology, it won't cost us a penny, it will improve our health and save lives, and we don't need to wait for our leaders to act. We can do it ourselves, today. This is the grassroots approach, and it begins with each and every one of us. Our future is still in our hands and whether we use them for killing or nurturing life will likely decide our fate. 

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/10/06/what-if-eating-animals-was-main-cause-climate-and-biodiversity-crises
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #295 on: October 09, 2021, 05:23:44 PM »
I would say that industrial farming is the issue. When Corn is produced for biogas, there also isn't much biodiversity left.

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8235
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #296 on: December 07, 2021, 11:00:23 AM »
Meat’s math problem is exacerbating the climate crisis


There’s broad agreement that a climate catastrophe is unavoidable unless we cut greenhouse gas emissions significantly. The transportation and energy emissions that contribute to the climate crisis are going down, but emissions from agriculture are increasing.

One of the biggest culprits? Production of meat and dairy.

Fertilizing feed for animals produces nitrous oxide emissions, a greenhouse gas 300 times more powerful than carbon dioxide, or CO2. When animals eat this feed and produce manure, it generates methane emissions, which are 80 times more powerful than CO2. Plowing up grassland and forest to grow feed for animals also releases carbon from soil into the atmosphere.

U.S. agriculture accounts for about 10 percent of our greenhouse gas emissions. When emissions from producing fertilizer to grow animal feed are factored in, agriculture’s share of emissions is even higher.

As emissions from energy and transportation continue to fall in response to new policies, and emissions from fertilizer and animals grow to meeting rising protein demand, meat’s contribution to the climate crisis steadily increases.

Since 2000, emissions from other sectors, such as transportation and energy, have fallen by 2 percent and 30 percent, respectively. By contrast, emissions from agriculture have gone up 12 percent. And meat production is responsible for much of that increase.

By 2050, greenhouse gas emissions from animals and producing their feed could easily account for one-third of U.S. emissions, even as other sectors strive to reduce their contributions.

That’s one math problem for meat.

... and more

https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2021/11/meats-math-problem-exacerbating-climate-crisis
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2504
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #297 on: December 07, 2021, 06:01:03 PM »
I am a farmer and I have experimented with zero carbon or very low fossil fuel use in growing, harvesting and selling vegetables . I currently have a pig farm. I would also still grow and sell vegetables but I can’t get insurance to do both pigs and veggies. . Insurance seems to think I will get e-coli on the vegetables if there are pigs around. Considering what escape artists pig are , they may have a point.
 I can grow vegetables with zero fuel use as long as I can make enough compost & manures to maintain soil health. I can harvest and store grains , corn and nuts without fossil fuel use. I can not transport or sell vegetables without lots of fuel use for refrigeration , vehicles, and packaging. I think a lot of energy used in the food industry has nothing to do with farm uses. It is getting food to people via restaurants and stores that consume the majority of all fossil fuel used in agriculture. If I raise animals for food I have a lot harder time producing enough feed for them without going off site to purchase it but so long as those animals are very few and for home use I can also get pork and chicken production down to zero fossil fuel.
 So in my opinion a vast majority of energy is used off the farm and it’s use is because other people choose to eat in restaurants , waste vast amounts of food, and have unsustainable expectations to eat food grown far away and out of season.
 Just saying red meat does not parse out pork from ruminants and most of what my pigs eat is seconds ,  field culls of organic squash,  beer barley that didn’t make grade for beer production ,canned fish that has expired date on the can. My farm has freezers powered solely from solar/ battery. The energy use on my farm again is vastly lower than the restaurants or distribution networks, and packaging required to market what I produce.
 So here is the rub, all primary production, food, lumber, minerals , fuels, create add on value as they move through the economy.  Economist have multipliers  they use to figure out how much income that various primary production creates. If you were to try to eliminate the most egregious energy costs of food you would quickly find the economy would suffer. If people actually took responsibility for producing their own food in a garden, or a pigpen , or henhouse much of what is wasted energy, for transportation , packaging , and storage could be eliminated or reduced.
 People are NOT going to quit eating meat so maybe we could stress home production and personal responsibility rather the vegan wet dreams.
 











kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8235
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #298 on: December 07, 2021, 10:33:38 PM »
You are right but many of the big meat producing industrial farms work in a much less responsible way. And ultimately most of the food needs to move from the farm to people although it would be great if much less was wasted.

I think there is nothing wrong with local organic meat from responsible farms but that is different from the big industrial production.

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2504
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Becoming Vegan
« Reply #299 on: December 07, 2021, 11:46:42 PM »
Thanks Kassy, The big picture sometimes looks so foreboding that I slip into what might appear to be romantic revisionism  There isn’t that much romantic about animal husbandry , vegetable farming is backbreaking without fossil fuels, and old bodies can only take so much. So I get lost in watching the baby pigs run about , I can’t spend hundreds of hours on my hands and knees anymore but it is easy enough to grow some things without a lot of hand labor. The land has always seemed productive and will remain so for those with the energy . Somehow though that productivity doesn’t translate into mass production and distant transport without vast amount of fossil energy. That is true whether we are talking animals or vegetables. I don’t think cities can be fed without diesel.