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Author Topic: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland  (Read 1269042 times)

Espen

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2250 on: May 19, 2021, 11:07:41 AM »
I think Espen meant that the calving front is now receded further than just before the monster calving event in 2015.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2251 on: May 19, 2021, 12:00:29 PM »
Jacobshaven mass loss slowed in 2017, but has started to recover since 2019.  Would expect a summer increase towards pre-2017 values. Data available through April 15. The May data should be interesting.

https://dataverse01.geus.dk/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.22008/promice/data/ice_discharge/d/v02

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2252 on: May 19, 2021, 03:28:46 PM »
Thanks Espen, for the link-back too.
john

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2253 on: May 19, 2021, 05:16:23 PM »
Welcome, Chubbs, and thanks for the info.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2254 on: May 19, 2021, 08:42:34 PM »
Jakobshavn Isfjord:

A lot of action since May 14 2021, notice a new big piece is to leave soon (southern branch).

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Amazing how fast the south branch is moving as well.

Espen

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2255 on: May 20, 2021, 11:03:19 PM »
Jakobshavn Isbræ - Sorry to bother you again - But due to the competition - The rules are downgraded - And the facts at UFO levels - But cross-checking with Sentinel 2 I am convinced we are very near or more to what was the fact on August 16 2015 a record retreat of Jakobshavn Isbræ. I hope we will receive more valuable information soon!

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2256 on: May 21, 2021, 08:48:00 AM »
Jakobshavn - Almost there but wider than 2015:

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2257 on: May 21, 2021, 04:16:36 PM »
Jakobshavn - Almost there but wider than 2015:

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Wider is a big concern as the main glacier loses pinning points from the ice streams to the north and east.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2258 on: May 21, 2021, 07:22:19 PM »
Jakobshavn Isbræ: Further retreat and very close to were it was in August 2015.

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« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 08:18:42 PM by Espen »
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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2259 on: May 23, 2021, 03:42:30 AM »
May 18th image shows a collection of huge icebergs at the mouth of the fjord


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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2260 on: May 23, 2021, 01:57:46 PM »
Jakobshavn Isbræ: Further retreat and very close to were it was in August 2015.

Come and join: https://twitter.com/Ecoverycom

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It might just be the time of day/position of the sun, but look how long the shadows are on the current ice face. Is the glacier experiencing ice cliff fracturing?

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2261 on: May 23, 2021, 11:37:57 PM »
Jakobshavn Isfjord - Damage report - May 13 May 23 2021.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2262 on: May 27, 2021, 11:00:29 PM »
Another calving? 25th vs 27th

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2263 on: May 28, 2021, 12:36:52 AM »
Slushy Iceberg Aggregates Control Calving Timing on Greenland's Jakobshavn Isbræ
https://phys.org/news/2021-05-slushy-iceberg-aggregates-calving-greenland.html



Shortly before Jakobshavn Isbræ, a tidewater glacier in Greenland, calves massive chunks of ice into the ocean, there's a sudden change in the slushy collection of icebergs floating along the glacier's terminus, according to a new paper led by the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES) at CU Boulder. The work, published in Nature Geoscience, shows that a relaxation in the thick aggregate of icebergs floating at the glacier-ocean boundary occurs up to an hour before calving events. This finding may help scientists better understand future sea-level rise scenarios and could also help them predict when major episodes of calving are about to occur.

In winter months, icebergs and sea ice accumulate within the fjord in front of Jakobshavn Isbræ, forming a frozen plug that prevents calving. The glacier can continue to flow into the fjord, intact, and advance dozens of meters each day. This accumulation of icy material, which scientists refer to as ice mélange, persists into the summer, but its shelf-like structure loses rigidity in the relative warmth, and it behaves more like individual icebergs jammed together in the fjord. Until now, no study has shown whether this type of late summer ice mélange can influence iceberg calving.

... To understand what was happening during these calving events, Cassotto and his colleagues took ground-based radar interferometers to Greenland in 2012 and set them up in Jakobshavn Isbræ's proglacial fjord to record iceberg interactions every three minutes. They found that in between calving events, icebergs within the ice mélange moved together, flowing down the fjord as a single, cohesive unit.

But the movement of individual icebergs changed just before each of the 14 calving events that they observed—instead of flowing as a single, coherent unit, the ice mélange relaxed and icebergs began to move independently of each other.

"When the ice mélange relaxes, individual icebergs begin to rotate around, and when they begin to rotate around, the mélange loses its structure," said Cassotto. "And when it loses its structure, it loses its ability to impede calving."

The exact cause of such shifts is not yet clear, but changes in ocean tides, the subglacial discharge of meltwater, and winds may help explain the sudden relaxation of the thick aggregate of icebergs pushing back against the glacier.

Granular decoherence precedes ice mélange failure and glacier calving at Jakobshavn Isbræ, Nature Geoscience (2021)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-021-00754-9

https://nsidc.org/data/NSIDC-0765/versions/1

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-021-00754-9/figures/5



https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-021-00754-9/figures/6

--------------------------------------------

probably applicable to Antarctica also
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 12:46:14 AM by vox_mundi »
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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2264 on: May 28, 2021, 07:37:13 AM »
That's a neat paper, and illuminates my thinking. The tidal pulses push in a gout of water to ice cliff base, warm enuf to melt a bunch of ice. Freshwater basal melt rises and returns seaward near the surface above incoming warm saline  below. This freshwater current, sometimes assisted by tidal outflow frees the melange into "granular decoherence," ; ice cliffs weakened by basal melt and melange unbuttressing collapse in the calving we see.

Speaking of calving, if the may25-27 collapse is real, front is getting close to a 1000m submarine canyon just upstream of the bend. will be interesting to see rate of collapse past that hole.

Are there continuous observations of salinity/temp at surface or depth in disko bay, say ? Those, if they exist might tell a lot.

sidd

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2265 on: May 28, 2021, 02:00:49 PM »
Another calving? 25th vs 27th

Too cloudy for S2 thus far, but S1 suggests you are correct:
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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2266 on: May 28, 2021, 06:12:58 PM »
Jim.

I'm seeing a feature in that image that I have never noticed before. Not sure if it is real. Essentially a shadow that curves from one side of the glacier to the other.

Just above the red line.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2267 on: May 28, 2021, 06:29:36 PM »
"The most revolutionary thing one can do always is to proclaim loudly what is happening" - Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2268 on: May 29, 2021, 12:55:46 AM »
Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord : Still action, but I am worried!!!!!

Just spend a lot of time reading about a lot of shit about Covid 19 and a certain science Lab in Wuhan (China), and if there is any truth to this, I believe science is in for a tough time, I am not naive and I am fully aware science is big business, and I have encountered this in all the years I have spent watching and studying Glaciers and Greenland, and I realize there are parallels in this field and Wuhan so to speak.
But what we in this Forum are interested in, I hope! For my part it is to show what is going on, not to write heavy reports (nobody reads) typically with extremely poor image and graphic documention together with very little new information (science) of what is happening, I am sometimes wondering what are they spending their days with?
And if you guys want to change things you better find other resourses than the science that we know it, because they are more occupied with business plans than science, I am afraid off.
But even after all this written above, I really hope the Wuhan story is just a mare dream, and I do not blame the Chinese, but those who tried to cover it up, most were from the West including one Dane and a few Americans.

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« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 09:59:10 AM by Espen »
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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2269 on: May 29, 2021, 03:23:15 AM »
The 3D viewer is a lot of fun


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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2270 on: May 29, 2021, 08:46:53 AM »
Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord : Still action, but I am worried!!!!!

Just spend a lot of time reading about a lot of shit about Covid 19 and a certain science Lab in Wuhan (China), and if there is any truth to this, I believe science is in for a tough time, I am not naive and I am fully aware science is big business, and I have encountered this in all the years I have spent watching and studying Glaciers and Greenland, and I realize there are parallels in this field and Wuhan so to speak.
But what we in this Forum is interested in, I hope! For my part it is to show what is going on, not to write heavy reports (nobody reads) typically with extremely poor image and graphic documention together with very little new information (science) of what is happening, I am sometimes wondering what are they spending their days with?
And if you guys want to change things you better find other resourses than the science that we know it, because they are more occupied with business plans than science, I am afraid off.
But even after all this written above, I really hope the Wuhan story is just a mare dream, and I do not blame the Chinese, but those who tried to cover it up, most were from the West including one Dane and a few Americans.

Please click on image to enlarge and animate!

Because it would make sense that a Dane and a few Americans cover up a Chinese conspiricy?

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2271 on: May 29, 2021, 10:05:19 AM »
Folks, I let Espen's off-topic comment stand because he is the resident expert and practical owner of the Greenland threads, however any responses belong in the Sars-Cov2 origins thread.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2272 on: May 29, 2021, 10:57:54 AM »
I seem to have gotten lost ...
We live in a Quantum universe . Do you live like you do ?

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2273 on: May 29, 2021, 11:54:52 AM »
I repeat, more Covid posts to be posted where they belong

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2274 on: May 30, 2021, 01:50:53 PM »
Back on track guys! :)

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2275 on: May 30, 2021, 05:01:54 PM »
Some impressive melt ponding showing up.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2276 on: May 30, 2021, 08:14:41 PM »
The melt ponds to the south are very pretty in this color scheme.


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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2277 on: June 01, 2021, 10:09:08 AM »
S-1 from the 31st of May.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2278 on: June 03, 2021, 12:46:23 AM »
Something is going on but it's hard to see. This is May 30, June 1 and June 2.


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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2279 on: June 03, 2021, 05:25:35 AM »
May 28th vs. June 2nd: another calving event


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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2280 on: June 03, 2021, 09:21:29 AM »
So, how soon does it retreat beyond 2015s record and what happens when the new front is behind the current cill and above the next deep trough?

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2281 on: June 03, 2021, 09:58:06 AM »
I'm wondering what the current speed is close the the calving-front. This should be easy to estimate by eyeballing two consequtive S-2 or S-1 observations. Has it accelerated to summer speeds already - probably so (?)

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2282 on: June 03, 2021, 09:46:51 PM »
Jakobshavn Isfjord: Another one of them big ones

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2283 on: June 04, 2021, 07:50:18 AM »
Thank you Espen for your contributions and information on Jakobshavn Isbræ latest development.
Would you mind to make a comprehensive gif of the last calving events (e.g. April-June 2021)?

Thank you in advance.
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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2284 on: June 04, 2021, 07:51:42 AM »
I have the impression that Jakobshavn Isbræ is more active than last year(s). Is there any reason for this behaviour (e.g. warmer weather or higher water temperatures in the fjord)?
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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2285 on: June 04, 2021, 10:05:19 AM »
Yes Jakobshavn is very active at the moment, the reason for this is to me unknown, but we are pretty close to the maximum retreat position August 15 2015 (there is no high resolution data from this date) only Landsat 8 was operating then.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2286 on: June 04, 2021, 10:24:54 AM »
My guess as to why it's so active is that there was a giant berg embedded in the flow that was wedged on the cill, sufficient time and tidal activity has melted/shrunk it, and the ones queued up behind it, allowing them to pass. So at present there's an excess flow released by that back pressure. We're now over the next cill, so to speak, what happens next?
added. It occurs to me that it's just as likely that the giant berg/s were stuck on this cill perhaps since 2015?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 10:51:53 AM by johnm33 »

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2287 on: June 04, 2021, 11:12:09 AM »
My guess as to why it's so active is that there was a giant berg embedded in the flow that was wedged on the cill, sufficient time and tidal activity has melted/shrunk it, and the ones queued up behind it, allowing them to pass. So at present there's an excess flow released by that back pressure. We're now over the next cill, so to speak, what happens next?
added. It occurs to me that it's just as likely that the giant berg/s were stuck on this cill perhaps since 2015?
I dont think so. Ice under so much gravity flows like a viscous liquid not like solids in a liquid. Meltwater between the ice and ground helps to lubricate flow and is often associated with faster flow. Knowing for certain would likely require an ongoing study.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2288 on: June 04, 2021, 11:27:45 AM »
Melt water flow can vary based on weather melt channels and many other factors. The reason it surges one year and not the next are not always clear. The size and shape of under ice pools, lakes and channels can change quickly and I dont think a system to measure small features from the top of the ice exists.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2289 on: June 04, 2021, 12:51:13 PM »
In any case, the main branch of JH advances tens of meters per day. There is no physical way for a berg to remain stuck in the flow for months or since 2015.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2290 on: June 04, 2021, 08:38:21 PM »
Yes Jakobshavn is very active at the moment, the reason for this is to me unknown, but we are pretty close to the maximum retreat position August 15 2015 (there is no high resolution data from this date) only Landsat 8 was operating then.

Seems we should blow past the 2015 calving location and set a new record. This will be a must visit thread this melt season. It'll be terrifying if the calving front rounds the bend.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2291 on: June 04, 2021, 09:42:24 PM »
Another big one, it looks like!

June 3rd vs 4th

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2292 on: June 04, 2021, 11:10:33 PM »
I did a slower GIF (2.5 sec/frame) of the same event


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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2293 on: June 05, 2021, 09:04:47 AM »
Jakobshavn Isbræ: Damn Close and remember the calvingfront was further back on August 15 2015.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2294 on: June 05, 2021, 06:56:14 PM »
Interesting to see the significant retreat of the ice sheet in that animation. A lot of new ground no longer covered by ice.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2295 on: June 05, 2021, 09:04:24 PM »
Jakobshavn Isbræ: We might be into record retreat territory, but better data (image) is needed to confirm, and thanks to Nasa anyway!
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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2296 on: June 06, 2021, 12:24:48 AM »
Jakobshavn Isbræ: Almost there, but here we have the first combined Landsat 8 and Sentinel 2 data animation (at least the first one I have made), some more calibration to be made the result is better than expected.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2297 on: June 06, 2021, 08:25:37 PM »
The June 5 images are up. The red-brown patches accompanying the latest series of calvings are new.

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2298 on: June 08, 2021, 02:10:41 AM »
April 1st to present every 15 days.

nukefix

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Re: Jakobshavn Isbræ / Ilulissat Isfjord / West Greenland
« Reply #2299 on: June 08, 2021, 11:35:45 AM »
Based on S-2 on 7.6 the north-side of the main branch is set-up for a big calving event.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 02:09:32 PM by nukefix »