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12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2016, 04:36:24 AM »

Sam Carana says: "The turbines in tunnels can reduce the flow of warm water into the Arctic Ocean, while tunnels can also be shaped in ways to guide the flow of warm water away from the Arctic Ocean".

Xulonn

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2016, 09:46:39 PM »
"Sam Carana" is not a real person.  The name is suspected as being a front for a collective of bloggers with unspecified qualifications and experience.  This prevents people with opposing views - including the AGW/CC denialist community - from attacking the credentials and qualifications of the anonymous authors.  Better to be challenged and be forced defend one's position rather than hiding behind anonymity.  Many who support the non-person "Sam Carana Collective" also disparage scientific peer-review - just like the denialists. 

You should refer to that source as the "Sam Carana Collective."  Blogging entries and other postings on the internet attributed to "Sam Carana" range from good to idiotic, and you cannot challenge him or her directly, because there is no singular him or her. 

The "Sam Carana Collective" response to your tunnels proposal is vague, without substance and detail, and therefore worthless on it's face.  Moving heat around does not solve the problem of massive amounts of heat entering the earth's biosphere. 

Do you plan to subject the regulars at the ASI blog to the same non-scientific, non-engineered idiotic blather and claptrap that got you perma-banned from commenting Wunderground blogs?

AGW/CC is a serious problem.  Those studying its science and political aspects don't need the distraction of unsupported, unscientific speculation.  Such blather belongs with the tin foil hat groups. 

12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2016, 11:04:57 PM »
"Sam Carana" is not a real person.  The name is suspected as being a front for a collective of bloggers with unspecified qualifications and experience.  This prevents people with opposing views - including the AGW/CC denialist community - from attacking the credentials and qualifications of the anonymous authors.  Better to be challenged and be forced defend one's position rather than hiding behind anonymity.  Many who support the non-person "Sam Carana Collective" also disparage scientific peer-review - just like the denialists. 

You should refer to that source as the "Sam Carana Collective."  Blogging entries and other postings on the internet attributed to "Sam Carana" range from good to idiotic, and you cannot challenge him or her directly, because there is no singular him or her. 

The "Sam Carana Collective" response to your tunnels proposal is vague, without substance and detail, and therefore worthless on it's face.  Moving heat around does not solve the problem of massive amounts of heat entering the earth's biosphere. 

Do you plan to subject the regulars at the ASI blog to the same non-scientific, non-engineered idiotic blather and claptrap that got you perma-banned from commenting Wunderground blogs?

AGW/CC is a serious problem.  Those studying its science and political aspects don't need the distraction of unsupported, unscientific speculation.  Such blather belongs with the tin foil hat groups.
Yeah and who are you? What is your name and affiliation?

12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2016, 11:36:30 PM »
Again Xulonn is incorrect. He thinks all tunnels would do is move heat around the biosphere and not allow Earth to cool when I have told him numerous times the tunnels allow more ice to form in the Northern hemisphere thus increasing albedo which will re-radiate more incoming solar radiation out to space due to the increasing extent of ice... He also seems to think that combining different technologies doesn't work in the real world... He needs to read about combined cycle power plants to know what he says isn't true.. They were made to lower the heat rate of the unit thus making them more efficient . Less fuel burned per kilowatt hour...

12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2016, 08:15:48 PM »
Ok... Just did some research checking up on anhydrous ammonia used in OTEC at " http://www.makai.com/ocean-thermal-energy-conversion/  ".. Seems it has a very low boiling point. "Boiling point: -28.01°F (-33.34°C)" ..  This means the water flowing through the Bering Strait is still warm enough to boil it although you may not get the efficiency as with the warmer water in tropics but the fact that you are still slowing the flow of warmer water into the Arctic still has it's benefits... So it looks like the Ocean Tunnels can be used in both cooling phase and warm phase of operation... So you have a very good point Neven you may be able to kill 2 birds with one stone here...

DaveHitz

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2016, 08:59:15 PM »
How about blocking Bering Strait with an underwater suspension tunnel?

Just trying to kill two birds with one rock here.  ;)


Ok... Just did some research checking up on anhydrous ammonia used in OTEC at " http://www.makai.com/ocean-thermal-energy-conversion/  ".. Seems it has a very low boiling point. "Boiling point: -28.01°F (-33.34°C)" ..  This means the water flowing through the Bering Strait is still warm enough to boil it although you may not get the efficiency as with the warmer water in tropics but the fact that you are still slowing the flow of warmer water into the Arctic still has it's benefits... So it looks like the Ocean Tunnels can be used in both cooling phase and warm phase of operation... So you have a very good point Neven you may be able to kill 2 birds with one stone here...

I'm sorry, Patrick. I'm afraid Neven was making fun of you.

The "blocking the Bering Strait" post was another thread in which a physically implausible solution was being proposed. Lots of people jumped in with details about how unlikely it would be to justify or implement that scale of project.

By combining that project with your tunnels, Neven made the whole thing even sillier and more preposterous. So I wouldn't spend too much time researching the details.

12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2016, 09:15:50 PM »
How about blocking Bering Strait with an underwater suspension tunnel?

Just trying to kill two birds with one rock here.  ;)


Ok... Just did some research checking up on anhydrous ammonia used in OTEC at " http://www.makai.com/ocean-thermal-energy-conversion/  ".. Seems it has a very low boiling point. "Boiling point: -28.01°F (-33.34°C)" ..  This means the water flowing through the Bering Strait is still warm enough to boil it although you may not get the efficiency as with the warmer water in tropics but the fact that you are still slowing the flow of warmer water into the Arctic still has it's benefits... So it looks like the Ocean Tunnels can be used in both cooling phase and warm phase of operation... So you have a very good point Neven you may be able to kill 2 birds with one stone here...

I'm sorry, Patrick. I'm afraid Neven was making fun of you.

The "blocking the Bering Strait" post was another thread in which a physically implausible solution was being proposed. Lots of people jumped in with details about how unlikely it would be to justify or implement that scale of project.

By combining that project with your tunnels, Neven made the whole thing even sillier and more preposterous. So I wouldn't spend too much time researching the details.
I don't think Neven was.. I think he had a very plausible question with a very plausible solution. Blocking the flow somewhat would also increase the flow through the tunnels as the narrowing in the Bering strait ( venturi ) narrows more... The fact that the Anhydrous Ammonia  boils at much lower temperatures than I thought makes my idea more appealing...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 11:11:13 PM by 12Patrick »

Neven

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2016, 11:47:13 PM »
I wasn't making fun of 12Patrick, but rather of mega-engineering projects that are politically/financially impossible, never mind the physical aspects and potential consequences. Of which we indeed have two on this Forum. Maybe they can both be combined with that idea for a bridge between Siberia and Alaska? ;)

My stance on geo-engineering solutions is simple: I'm against them if they're proposed because our way of life is non-negotiable.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2016, 12:20:58 AM »
I wasn't making fun of 12Patrick, but rather of mega-engineering projects that are politically/financially impossible, never mind the physical aspects and potential consequences. Of which we indeed have two on this Forum. Maybe they can both be combined with that idea for a bridge between Siberia and Alaska? ;)

My stance on geo-engineering solutions is simple: I'm against them if they're proposed because our way of life is non-negotiable.
Good to know that Neven and thanks for not making fun of me.. Yes they would act sort of like a dam restricting warm water flow into the Arctic through the Bering Strait which should prevent such a rapid melt off of ice there nowadays especially in the summer months.. What makes the idea so appealing is the enormous amount of energy they can produce at the same time doing this both with OTEC technology and combining it with mechanical energy from the flowing water flowing past a underwater turbine mounted inside of each tunnel venturi section. The new tunnel description I call "OMTEC" meaning "Ocean Mechanical Thermal Energy Conversion". In fact the energy is so vast that the project will pay for itself over time like the Makai OTEC video says... There is no better greener energy solution because the system can run virtually 24/7/365 and place ALL fossil fuel and Nuclear fuel in the ground for as long as Earth spins. Again feel free to join the "Ocean Tunnel Group" here to see all the wonderful changes they can make to Earths climate system:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1548937018758434/?ref=bookmarks ....

12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2016, 03:10:53 AM »
Ocean Tunnels could span the full width of this project and power the project as well as the entire industrialized world... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/26/russia-reportedly-wants-to-build-a-mega-road-and-rail-link-from-europe-to-america/
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 11:41:14 AM by 12Patrick »

12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2016, 11:43:28 AM »
If you want summer time arctic sea ice back tell the climate scientists to computer model my Ocean Tunnels idea.

mati

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2016, 09:23:31 PM »
nah, daming hudson's bay and turning it into a giant freshwater lake may be more fun eh?
and so it goes

12Patrick

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Re: Underwater suspension tunnels
« Reply #62 on: September 02, 2016, 11:32:50 PM »
Thinnest Arctic sea ice ever recorded since 1979... Correct?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 09:38:55 AM by 12Patrick »