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Author Topic: Forum Decorum  (Read 23478 times)

sedziobs

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #150 on: December 06, 2018, 09:58:04 PM »
People older than me, on the other hand.  Well, they're busy trying to referee discourse.
How old do you think I am?

wdmn

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #151 on: December 06, 2018, 10:04:34 PM »
I'm glad to see so many experts on activism here. I'm sure you're all very experienced in that field, and know what's best for Neven and this community.  With all these climate change protests erupting lately, you must really get a chance to practice your work.  Telling me and other young people:
"hey,easy there kids. make sure you don't get angry. Don't resort to tribalism. Take some time and listen to the democrats and republicans too. I know it sucks that my generation robbed you of your future, but just make sure you maintain decorum"

I'm also happy in the insistence that we need to give people like Bob and Rob a platform. Their neoliberal agenda is already supported by mainstream media, governments, corporations, and the majority of westerners. they have a monopoly on narrative and discourse, and they are well equipped to silence dissent. What are we accomplishing by giving neoliberals another avenue for propaganda? Unless... our goal is to maintain the status quo

Zizek, I'm sure I'm not much older than you, and I am involved with more than a couple of climate change activist groups currently. I understand your rage; I feel a ton of resentment at being unable to become an adult in many ways, because doing so would require me to buy into a system that I know is destroying so much. I live a life of uncertainty that is often very lonely, and riddled with despair.

That said, right now rage -- though useful to some degree -- is not enough. There will be no revolution, and it's unlikely that a revolution would solve our problems. What older folk do have -- even if they sometimes fail to see what seems obvious -- is an understanding of how difficult it is to change things. China, India and Vladimir Putin are all obstacles to a different world, just as the U.S. BAU model is. There are nothing but massive challenges. There are no quick solutions; we're in serious trouble, quite obviously. Yelling at people online does nothing to move us closer to any of our goals, all it does is threaten to undermine one of the more important climate change related sites on the internet.

Sure, maybe it's important to be loud. But maybe focus on getting young people out and loud in the streets? On this forum, I almost think it's more useful to tell someone like a Rob about your personal story, just as he shared his (which has obviously influenced him greatly). Maybe once the older generation starts hearing what it's like for us, why we feel so angry, they will begin to understand that there's more wrong than they might want to think. Rather than raging on about something happening half way around the world, (which after all we don't know about first hand and often comes down to whose testimony we believe), why not say, "look, I can't even begin to start thinking about having a family. I feel like I'm in a state of war but I don't even have an enemy to shoot at. I have no agency, except when there is an election, but none of the candidates come anywhere close to understanding what it is we are hoping for. etc etc" This will do a lot more than a JD rant, perhaps. At least it can't do less.

And if you really care about change, then efficacy should be your main concern, above being right, or righteous.

zizek

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #152 on: December 06, 2018, 10:33:11 PM »
I agree with you for the most part. But, being loud is important, especially when challenging the status quo. Successful movements of marginalized or victimized groups have always been loud. MeToo, BLM, Occupy, Black Panthers, labor, communists, gay rights. None of these movements relied on decorum and manners to achieve their goals. They called out their oppressors and exposed them for the people that they are. And they would yell and be loud, so that they may be heard, and that people would start to think about their struggle.
And I'm not saying that this will apply to an internet forum. But... There's obvious utility to this strategy. So maybe we shouldn't dismiss it outright for online communities.


Anyways, I only post here every so often. my focus is on real life work. But I find the forums as a nice outlet for my ideas, and maybe slightly cathartic when I get critical.
This will be my last post for a while. But only because I'm in the middle of exams and really need to stop distracting myself.


How old do you think I am?
I don't know. This is my experience in the real world, and it can be applied to a lot of the posters here, maybe not you.

gerontocrat

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #153 on: December 06, 2018, 10:42:09 PM »
Veni, vidi, fugi.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Lurk

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #154 on: December 07, 2018, 03:00:28 AM »

I see as much more problematic other financial issues - the immense power of corporations, especially felt in the energy and military-industrial sector. The issue of unending debt, increasing consumption in the present at the expense of the dying future. The sad state of the poor, the sick, the disabled, and the elderly, and what if at all can be done about it.


Every single one a Political Issue. Here's a good idea" "Let's can the politics threads so no one can ever learn about any of these issues while the planet and sth California burns to the ground. "

Why? Because some people don't like it and it offends them deeply. Besos offends me!

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But the point is not to argue the point, instead to say it is okay to disagree with you on this point, IMHO.

Congratulations on proving Neven's point! Oh what is his point? Most of you miss it entirley imo.

Politics matters more now than anything else does!


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I am looking for a place that appeals to my sense of rational adult discussion about long-term problems, challenges, ideas and solutions based on facts, science and common sense.

Seek and thou shalt find ... or build it yourself, right here, or elsewhere. Anyone can create a Thread Topic on the Rest section - even you!

There is no reason for you to be satisfied with the subject threads started by others - create your own, and see what happens. Build it they will come! Drown the crap threads out by creating threads about Topics that are better!

Why does it always have to be someone else's fault all the time?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 10:35:37 AM by Neven »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

sidd

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #155 on: December 07, 2018, 03:24:16 AM »
I have been thinking about an exchange between sedziobs and me, where i remarked :

"I find that labels like "Team XXX" or "pro/anti YYY" obscure as much as enlighten. The world doesn't neatly fall into categories."

sedziobs replied:

"The world doesn't, but The Rest forum largely does"

I think that is a fault of perception. Not a single person on this forum falls neatly into pro, anti, or team or other categories. Yet their posts are read as evidence for those labels, reducing human essence into one dimensional man, as Marcuse wrote in a different, but related, context. And I cannot help but think of Eliot in Prufrock

"The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase"

In short, i recommend reading posts with care. People are far more complex than they appear in this limited medium.

sidd
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 03:33:13 AM by sidd »

sedziobs

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #156 on: December 07, 2018, 04:44:34 PM »
I think that is a fault of perception. Not a single person on this forum falls neatly into pro, anti, or team or other categories.
Sure, every conclusion that each person comes to is a result of their own perceptions.  My perceptions are clearly different than yours.  I do not mean that Lurk or Neven are monolithic and hold the same opinions on every issue.  But they don't write in a hostile manner toward each other, and write very hostile toward their opponents.  This has the effect of creating "teams", whether or not all of their views neatly fit into one.  I do not believe that tribalism can be dismissed because people don't fit into two separate bins.  A bimodal distribution with some overlap can create tribalism.  The two party system in the US is a perfect example. 

Sleepy

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #157 on: December 08, 2018, 06:50:41 AM »
Try to be on team human?
https://medium.com/s/futurehuman/survival-of-the-richest-9ef6cddd0cc1
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All this technological wizardry could be applied toward less romantic but entirely more collective interests right now.

They were amused by my optimism, but they didn’t really buy it. They were not interested in how to avoid a calamity; they’re convinced we are too far gone. For all their wealth and power, they don’t believe they can affect the future. They are simply accepting the darkest of all scenarios and then bringing whatever money and technology they can employ to insulate themselves — especially if they can’t get a seat on the rocket to Mars.

Luckily, those of us without the funding to consider disowning our own humanity have much better options available to us. We don’t have to use technology in such antisocial, atomizing ways. We can become the individual consumers and profiles that our devices and platforms want us to be, or we can remember that the truly evolved human doesn’t go it alone.

Being human is not about individual survival or escape. It’s a team sport. Whatever future humans have, it will be together.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

Lurk

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #158 on: December 08, 2018, 10:03:04 AM »


A bimodal distribution with some overlap can create tribalism? I call that theoretical academic gobbledygook. It has no place in these kinds of 'decorum' discussions because it inherently involves a complete denial of reality and people's humanity - the specific people who are under discussion here. I find it an offensive way to speak. YMMV.

<snip; N.>



+edit:
Bugger  :'(
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 12:39:52 PM by Lurk »
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

Neven

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #159 on: December 08, 2018, 11:04:26 AM »

But they don't write in a hostile manner toward each other

You clearly don't have access to our Inbox.  ;D

I only write in a hostile manner to people if they can't even admit the simplest of things. Remember our conversation in the Corporate Democrats thread? I backed off when you admitted a couple of simple things, which made me understand better where you were coming from, even though I still disagreed with you.

Compare, compare, compare

sedziobs

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #160 on: December 08, 2018, 03:49:18 PM »
Remember our conversation in the Corporate Democrats thread? I backed off when you admitted a couple of simple things, which made me understand better where you were coming from, even though I still disagreed with you.
Yes, I remember.  You were hostile from the start because you assumed (as Lurk loves to point out) that I couldn't admit what you wanted me to.  You made assumptions about me, and lumped me with the rest of team MSNBC.  This goes back to my reply to sidd.  It's not necessarily only our views that create teams.  It's our attitudes and how they color our perceptions.  My attitude was not great in that thread either.  I started out hostile as well.  My complaints aren't about me, or making a case that I'm better than anyone.  My complaints are about the state of the forum, of which I am a part.  I'm in favor of joining together on team human.  Unfortunately I don't think that's a possibility in The Rest.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 03:54:46 PM by sedziobs »