Forum Decorum

[kassy]

Thanks for the update on Terry, John. I am doing the same.

[oren]

Very sorry to hear about Terry and I hope he recovers and quickly, thanks for the important update John.

[oren]

Tom, I do hope you continue to contribute as you have been doing, but if it hurts you then a posting hiatus might indeed be a good idea.

[vox_mundi]

The term Godspeed is sometimes used in order to wish someone success and safety, especially if the journey ahead is long and perilous.

Godspeed, TerryM

[HapHazard]

sad news

chin up, TM

[Rodius]

My thoughts are with TerryM.
I hope he recovers quickly.


Tom - it is a shame you have decided to stop posting, I hope you find a way to start doing them again. (I feel the pain of autism, I share that burden with you, and learning the rules of neuro typical is exhausting.)

[jens]

My thoughts are with TerryM.
I hope he recovers quickly.


Tom - it is a shame you have decided to stop posting, I hope you find a way to start doing them again. (I feel the pain of autism, I share that burden with you, and learning the rules of neuro typical is exhausting.)

Well said.

In terms of the autism part it just shows we have all kinds of people here and who knows, what any of them could struggle with. Personally I'm not a "normal" person either, perhaps in different ways. In terms of society I can say that mentally I don't fit into it, like at all. Living in this civilization feels so warped. 

[Rodius]

My thoughts are with TerryM.
I hope he recovers quickly.


Tom - it is a shame you have decided to stop posting, I hope you find a way to start doing them again. (I feel the pain of autism, I share that burden with you, and learning the rules of neuro typical is exhausting.)

Well said.

In terms of the autism part it just shows we have all kinds of people here and who knows, what any of them could struggle with. Personally I'm not a "normal" person either, perhaps in different ways. In terms of society I can say that mentally I don't fit into it, like at all. Living in this civilization feels so warped. 

For me, growing up, I literally had to create a massive list of rules to function in places like school and at work. I thought it was normal.
Turns out it isn't, and I only discovered I was autistic after my second son was diagnosed and I started to learn a lot about it. It was obvious I was after that, the diagnosis, later on, was predictable.

Oddly, for me anyway, the worst part of autism wasn't the autism. I actually like the way I think and process complex information and sort it out and find links between things that many people don't seem able to see.

The issue is social interaction, in terms of how people treat me for thinking differently, and being blunt in my thinking is problematic. For example, it is rude to point out to your boss that they are wrong and be upfront about it, explain it, and provide a better solution that is, typically, not seeable by them. Oddly, as a manager of hundreds of people, I strongly encouraged my team to find better ways and I prefer it that way. It makes no sense to do it any other way in my mind... but, social rules indicate that it is better to shut up and agree with your boss to get the promotion and be liked.
Go figure.

Society is complex.
Now, I don't worry about the social rules as much, although I try hard to not offend people because I really dislike upsetting people.

[nanning]

Tom - it is a shame you have decided to stop posting, I hope you find a way to start doing them again.

Seconded. Please return Tom. Perhaps after a small hiatus.
The good music thread has become addicted to the 60s. It is already longing for your contributions 


\off-topic
To Rodius: I have the same sort of experiences as you describe (do you also dislike hierarchy?). Don't think that I'm autistic because no problems socially. Except that I do not participate in group behaviour and grown-up culture/behaviour. I've mainly had youngsters as friends also at later age and never had a 'career' or marriage etc.
Grown-up group behaviour is difficult to understand from the outside. It has many very subtle non-verbal influences and effects.
I wish that this may help you a bit in improving your view of yourself and especially 'normal' society.

[jens]

Well, in terms of adapting to a forum's group culture I think the main thing is that don't attack people personally and whatever you write, use arguments about the topic in question. If you can manage that, you should be fine.

In terms of "real life groups" it can be more complicated, because people can have all kinds of inside topics, jokes, whatever, of which you simply are not aware and don't fit into. Also people can wear a "social mask", meaning their behaviour is not sincere. It really depends on how open people are to "outsiders" and it depends on the people and group in question.

[Rod]

Hi Oren, and everyone else.

I’m sorry I got pissed off and deleted my account last year. 

I missed you guys and made a new account to get back into the conversations.

Looks like an interesting year for the sea ice. Could be bad, could be mediocre, too early to form any opinions just yet. 

Glad to speak with all of you again!

Rod

[oren]

Hi Rod. Happy you came back.

In general, I always recommend to all who consider taking a hiatus to avoid deleting the account, just freeze it. Deleting makes forum searches less effective, removes all likes one has ever given or recieved, prevents editing, hurts forum statitics, and causes all sorts of mischief.

[nanning]

Welcome back Rod.

[John_The_Elder]

Good news. TerryM is alert and talking according to his wife Carole.Still has issues with his left side is improving day by day.
John

[John_The_Elder]

A note from Carole.
Re Terry Moran
Anyone wishing to send Terry a card, he is at
Grand River Hospital,
5 North, Room 27,
835 King Street West,
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada  N2G 1G3
I am sure any contact with the outside world will be welcomed by him

[KiwiGriff]

I am not going to try to diagnose  others or stick them in boxes.
I am an Aspie or if you like on the autism spectrum with a "disorder".
 I get obsessed about subjects and spend an inordinate amount of time researching and thinking about things that normies don't understand or care about. I have a high "iq"  really just testing  your ability for pattern matching  and I try to apply logic to my world view. I have difficulty in social interaction and find little common ground with the average person in my peer group.
Apparently these are just  Aspie traits.

Now just think prequest for commenting on ASIF.
You are consumed with an intense interest with an obscure subject. Socially  your preferred outlet for communicating your obsession is the web  not to your peers .

This community self  selects Aspies.
8.000.000.000 humans on earth maybe 100 comment on here regularly.
Without doubt the ratio of Aspies on here is high  just considering those that have already acknowledged being somewhere on the spectrum let alone those who have never stated or acknowledged their status.

Aspies are a part of humanity and what we are is not a "disorder" its a net benefit to humanity as a species.




 

 

[jens]

Now just think prequest for commenting on ASIF.
You are consumed with an intense interest with an obscure subject. Socially  your preferred outlet for communicating your obsession is the web  not to your peers.

Yeah. I mean in my everyday life I don't know a single person, who is into Arctic sea ice, lol. The only option with regards to this field for me is to read what is written on this forum.

[greylib]

I am not going to try to diagnose  others or stick them in boxes.
I am an Aspie or if you like on the autism spectrum with a "disorder".
<snip>
This community self  selects Aspies.
8.000.000.000 humans on earth maybe 100 comment on here regularly.
Without doubt the ratio of Aspies on here is high  just considering those that have already acknowledged being somewhere on the spectrum let alone those who have never stated or acknowledged their status.

Aspies are a part of humanity and what we are is not a "disorder" its a net benefit to humanity as a species.

I've spent over 25 years talking to people on the internet. I've learned a lot, loved a bit, got myself into flame wars, civil wars (and very uncivil wars) and gained a lot of understanding of that special, self-selected subset of humanity that posts regularly online.

One way or another, we're almost all misfits. Something about society in general, or our lives in particular, repels us, or at least leaves us feeling incomplete.

Being on the autistic spectrum would be one way that people don't fit in. Another is physical disability. I spend a lot of online time with one guy - forum banter at first, then email later, leading to a firm, wide-ranging friendship - and it was five years before he told me that he was very deaf. He learned from a very early age that face-to-face, people would dismiss most of what he was trying to say. Online, nobody needs to know. Other people have stammers, or are bedridden, or can only get about in wheelchairs. On the internet, only our minds matter, and that's important if you get marked down on the other stuff.

Difficulties in our personal lives can push us online - trouble with partner, parent or employer. That was mainly what drove me online in the 90s. Eventually I decided to take the advice that I'd been so freely giving to others, and got myself out of a thoroughly toxic relationship. I'm now celebrating 17 years with a fine, intelligent woman who respects and understands me. She sometimes understands me too well, of course, but wouldn't life be dull if it were perfect?

[Neven]

A note from Carole.
Re Terry Moran
Anyone wishing to send Terry a card, he is at
Grand River Hospital,
5 North, Room 27,
835 King Street West,
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada  N2G 1G3
I am sure any contact with the outside world will be welcomed by him

Sorry to hear about Terry. I thought about him a few days ago, and how he would tend to disappear from the Forum for a while, if he was doing well, etc.

I'd send him a card, but would it arrive in time?

[John_The_Elder]

TerryM is still in Hospital and doing a little better but still in serious condition.
 His wife Carole posts updates on facebook every few days....
https://www.facebook.com/carole.moran.75.

[be cause]

pleased to report that Carole says Terry is making good progress and hopes to be active again some time in the future .. b.c.

[nadir]

With the evidence literally piling on every day, and mainstream narrative accepting reality of a laboratory origin, it's worth the entertainment value to go back to page 1 of this thread, to see how badly in denial folks where about the origins of this virus a year ago.

Harpy I read this opinion recently on twitter:

The idea that youtube is kicking people off for questioning the methodology of the state when it comes to Covid is troubling. Seeing the lab leak hypothesis go from a “conspiracy” to mainstream news pretty quick should tell you nothing should be off the table for discussion.

and it tells you all that is wrong on how this issue (as many others) was approached on this Forum when it was raised here:

Censorship - of what I consider in this case to be a conspiracy theory - would be my preferred mode of operation. However you might note that I did not propose censorship, merely a separate thread where this can be discussed to your heart's content, without disrupting other more fruitful discussions.

Here the most respected moderator of the Forum had a good day. And instead of his openly admitted preferred approach for what he dislikes —authoritarian censorship— he just suggested opening a new thread. But things could’ve gone another way.

(Moved from the SARS-CoV-2 origin thread as it’s a bit off-topic there)

[oren]

Several points:
* My original suggestion was (rightly) to move the discussion to a separate thread. This was met by the protest of "censorship", which it was not, of course, and which drove my further response.
* Had I considered this to be enough of a 100% conspiracy theory, and had it been under my jurisdiction, I might have indeed deleted such discussion in accordance to my policy of dealing with such matters, however both conditions were not true. This has nothing to do with my "disliking" a subject, and all to do with my judgment of the science behind a subject or lack thereof.
* Neven did well to choose Kassy as moderator of the the science/general AGW section, as his knowledge and judgement of such subjects is very often better than mine (in my opinion), and I am happy just moderating the Cryosphere section where I feel somewhat more comfortable (and where I feel more strict moderation is appropriate), so don't take my personal opinion as representing forum policy. I am a person of opinions though, and will often voice them on varying subjects out of my jurisdiction with varying levels of confidence.
* In all honesty, despite the "evidence piling up" I still assess this discussion as mostly politically driven with nice-sounding talking points but not much substance, however I now relegate it to the status of an issue that was muddied up so strongly and so full of interests (US, Chinese and others) that we will probably never know the science of it. So, still probably a conspiracy theory in my mind but not 100% certain (thus benefit of the doubt would still prevent any deletion, and things could not have gone another way).
* Moderation is not error-free, and I can well imagine (though hope to avoid) a different situation where a subject within my jurisdiction is considered a 100% conspiracy theory but is then proved to be scientific truth, apologies issued, subject reinstated, etc.

[nanning]

Very well explained oren.

[Rod]

Quick question.  First, I am very sorry about Terry and hope he is doing well!

Second, I deleted my account last year which was a mistake. I now have a new account with the same user name.  I understand that I should be on moderation because I deleted my old account, but how long does it last? 

I’m just curious, because it is hard to respond to a comment when I have no idea how long it will take for my response to be posted.

I’m not criticizing the mods.  I think you guys are doing a great job.  I’m just curious how long it will take until I get off moderation.

[oren]

Newly registered users (whether returnees or not) are in some sort of automatic moderation until the forum Admin releases the account. As Neven has now taken a back seat to managing the forum, it takes a PM from one of the moderators and he usually responds within a day. I sent him the request for your account yesterday, should have done it after your introductory post but was lax in my duties...

[Neven]

Rod's profile has been released. 

[trm1958]

I will only post in fora of oren or be cause, not kassy.
I will not bring up abortion and will report anyone who does (what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander).
Can I be removed from moeration?

[uniquorn]

I hope not, trm1958 was registered long before Tom_Mazanec last posted

[Rodius]

I hope not, trm1958 was registered long before Tom_Mazanec last posted

If Tom agrees to stick within the guidelines, why not let him speak without moderation.
While I don't always agree with Tom, there is no harm in people having opinions that differ, even if it is wildly different.

He has been a good contributor to the forum for the most part.... so if he agrees to not step outside the given boundaries, let him be off moderation.
If he breaks the rules, then do what is required with no more chances.

[kassy]

Well that is why he ended up on moderation. There have been repeated request not to spam threads, not to engage in that discussion or not to overspam the music thread which were always ignored.

Actually there is no reason to have two account because you can read on the moderated account without any problems.

[be cause]

I would welcome Tom's return . I would be happy to have him unmoderated , as whatever he does , it is without ill intent . b.c.

[WildFit]

I would welcome Tom's return . I would be happy to have him unmoderated , as whatever he does , it is without ill intent . b.c.

Question is whether ill is not ill if without intent ?

I disagree on that count. Some people never draw back and/or stop to cause discomfort,
perhaps exaxtly due to the "no ill intent" that makes it impossible to understand for some that even good intent can hurt and disrupt and distroy.

I personally am happy that many troublemakers are gone, the forum is quite quiet and mostly peaceful recently, also thanks to Oren's work from who other mods can still learn and that does not mean that I always agree, it just means that it's wisely managed that deserves full respect.

Tom at all time flooded the forum with various extremes, extrem number of new threads, extremely off topic (ice-wise) topics, extreme views and extreme persistece toghether with an extreme level of profiling neuroses, like to here himself talking and seeing his name all aver the world wide web.

This in my opinion are ill motives in the real meaning of the word ill.

[nanning]

"I would welcome Tom's return . I would be happy to have him unmoderated , as whatever he does , it is without ill intent . b.c."

Seconded.

Tom is mostly harmless. The music thread is nice but not important imo.
Perhaps we can talk about kassy's moderation behaviour. As gentlemen (&gentlewomen).

[trm1958]

I hope not, trm1958 was registered long before Tom_Mazanec last posted

I almost deleted my account months ago, and set this up just to monitor the new posts and maybe post an occasional song. But I changed my mind at the last second. Maybe I should have quit then?

[trm1958]

Nice Douglas Adams shoutout, nanning.

[trm1958]

WildFit:
I have to learn by doing. As I received feedback from members I have tried to modify my posting to accommodate them. That is why I have been posting almost all in the Drought 2021, Covid Recession and Music threads for months. Since kassy is in charge of the first two, you will not see me anymore in those threads.

[trm1958]

One thing I noticed about being a new member is when you try to post or PM, it gives you those questions and, in particular, it gives you six scribbled out letters to type in. That is not so bad, but after awhile the box posts all the previous entries you made, and it was starting to interfere with seeing the current "word". Could you stop the entry form from listing all that gibberish and blotting out the one you need?
Fortunately, this just stopped for me, but I found it irking.

[uniquorn]

Maybe I'm a bit harsh, but deleting an account is a pain for everyone, especially site admin. Setting up a new account in advance in case you want to post again seems like pre-meditated trouble making. You forcefully made some point or other to someone, now it's up to the mods and neven when you come off moderation. There are plenty of other internet sites to discuss your favourite topic. This one is supposed to focus on ice. That's my feedback trm1958.

[oren]

On a different subject, recently there has been a spate of new threads in various sections of the forum, started by one user (morganism), on very specific subjects, and mostly not generating much discussion or responses, if any.
I think this detracts from the forum and should be curbed. As a poster, it's often best to fit within existing more general subjects, such as "Collapse dynamics" or "South America politics" or "Medical/Health News" or whatever, rather than "Peru, Mexico, Chile, Ecuador, and the Struggle to Change a Broken System", "ECMWF modeling hiccup on high temps", "Brain Damage Caused by Even Small Amounts of Plasticizers (BPA)".
As a moderator, I often merge such threads into bigger threads, unless they have a good interest and discussion potential. If threads are not found, What's New in the Arctic/Antarctic are a good fit in the Cryo section, and general "News" threads are a good fit in the other sections. I've even gone back to past years and merged esoteric single-post threads into relevant threads to avoid clutter.
The forum has many threads going back several years which serve as a good repository of information and can be a good primer for newcomers. Some of these threads have posts only every few months, but it's still more useful IMHO than to open new threads for each new piece of news which is not in the direct subject matter of the forum (sea ice, ice sheets, AGW, sustainability and related subjects).
I also prefer to delete very old threads that just say "this thread has been moved elsewhere", this is only relevant in the first few weeks (if at all).

As for off-topic posts, my preference (not guarantee) is first and foremost to move them to other threads using the Split Topic function and then Merge Thread, or in rare cases just to split them into a totally new thread, editing a proper title (when many OT posts have been made on a similar subject). I find posters are quite unhappy with outright deletion after putting in the effort of writing said posts. Deletion I reserve for spam, denialism and ad hominem comments, or after some suitable warning when OT behavior is excessive.

[trm1958]

I did not know that the moderators had anything at all to do with deletion. I thought the software handled everything.
I could see your point, uniquorn, if I were the only one to have done this. But others have as well, blumenkraft not the least. And if the moderators do not like people deleting their accounts, they should not do things like deleting posts on a whim. What decided me was when I found out kassy was deleting nanning's posts. I know he has a vendetta against me, so it did not surprise me when he deleted mine repeatedly, but if nanning is not safe no one is.

[nanning]

Tom, I think deleting your post was a mistake (trouble) and childish. I thank you for your support though. Much appreciated.
I don't think that kassy has a 'vendetta' against you but it may seem like it to you, I agree.

Out of respect for fellow good-willing forum members, as a moderator I wouldn't delete their posts without some message or explanation. After all, these do not happen every day. And as oren says, it takes time and creativity, effort to write a post.

Be sure kassy that I never post anything to be troublesome but it may seem like it. You're a good moderator but it would be nice to behave a bit more respectful when outright deleting someones or several posts. At least a small PM with criticisms with a copy of the post would be very nice. Then someone has the opportunity to learn and change the message.
This is not an 'attack' but the offering of a hand, waiting to be shaken. I respect you.

[trm1958]

Also, if I were to premeditated trouble making I would not wait months and pick a user name based on my name and birthdate and tell everyone. I would get a totally different name, make trouble and when moderated or banned lather rinse and repeat.
nanning, thank you for your thoughts. There is a fine line between a protest and childish tantrum and I don’t know if I went over. I will accept that you think I did. Sometimes I think that, sometimes I don’t. But I have been on many forums with many moderators and none of them moderates like kassy.

[Steven]

I know he [kassy] has a vendetta against me

Do you ever stop playing the victim?  You have been hijacking, derailing and spamming threads ad nauseam, and yet you are always pretending to be the victim who is persecuted by others.

I think Kassy was (and is) absolutely right to put you on moderation.

[trm1958]

We will have to agree to disagree about kassy.

[Rodius]

I know he [kassy] has a vendetta against me

Do you ever stop playing the victim?  You have been hijacking, derailing and spamming threads ad nauseam, and yet you are always pretending to be the victim who is persecuted by others.

I think Kassy was (and is) absolutely right to put you on moderation.

I agree with this.... if you are going to be a repeat offender, you don't get to feel like you are being persecuted... it doesn't work that way.

If Tom is saying is will follow the rules from this point on, I personally (and my opinion is not a criticism of Kassy as moderation isn't easy) would give him this one last chance on the new user name. If he repeats again, either moderate him or block him.

In saying that, I am a repeat offender of giving people just one more chance, and it typically ends in repeat offense.... you would think I would learn the lesson by now.

[Tor Bejnar]

One of the plasticized flash cards I grew up with read

Learn from the mistakes of others.
 (You can't possibly make them all yourself.)

[KiwiGriff]

Fancy putting in many hours of time to heard a bunch of cats only to have the little fur balls hiss at you?
Thanks to The Mods you all do an awesome job.

[nanning]

Hey KiwiGriff, aren't you also a cat; a fur ball?
Do you think moderators cannot make mistakes?
Do you feel at home in absolute hierarchies?

Just to make you think, not to start a discussion at all.

And yes, the moderators do a great voluntary job. Many thanks for all the time and effort they put in.

[KiwiGriff]

I have had comments deleted for being off topic. In a thread hijack         
many of us were enjoying .
so yip I get hearded .
I did consider making a comment about individual mods
Then decided why hiss over it? The mods each have their own style. learn to work within their boundaries and  your comments  will not get deleted . The amount of effort they all put in is hugely more valuable than any individual comment of mine.