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Author Topic: Forum Decorum  (Read 122797 times)

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #700 on: June 10, 2020, 12:55:32 PM »
You can block the quotes in your profile settings, HH.
Ah, nice. Been quite a while since I used the blocklist - last time around the quote dealio wasn't an option.

sidd

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #701 on: June 10, 2020, 09:58:06 PM »
How does one block quoted material as well from killfiled posters ?

sidd

kassy

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #702 on: June 10, 2020, 10:20:57 PM »
I am a bit skeptical. So lets say all the regular posters use killfiles. Cleans threads up for them but it still leaves the original mess. It might reduce comments on OT comments but it does not get rid of them.

The main rule is really simple. Ice data thread is about ice data, melting season thread is about is what is going on in the Arctic at the moment not your fucking pet theory.

The rest is less important.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Phoenix

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #703 on: June 10, 2020, 11:15:22 PM »

The main rule is really simple. Ice data thread is about ice data, melting season thread is about is what is going on in the Arctic at the moment not your fucking pet theory.


You mean the pet theory that we won't have a record this year because we just had the strongest freezing season of the century in the CAB and there's over 500 km3 more ice there at this point than in 2012 ? Which is the appropriate thread for the strange thought that we won't easily blow way, way, way past what happened in 2012 ?

oren

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #704 on: June 10, 2020, 11:22:57 PM »
Yes, that pet theory.
And there are several appropriate threads for such (melting season predictions, when will the Arctic go ice free, and more), but not the melting season thread, beyond a passing mention or two.
In hindsight, I should have heavily moderated you much earlier. Disrupting the melting season thread causes a lot of damage.

Phoenix

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #705 on: June 11, 2020, 12:25:52 AM »
I should have heavily moderated you much earlier. Disrupting the melting season thread causes a lot of damage.

Just call it what it is...censorship. Actual data which paints a picture of the Arctic ice as not disappearing in the near future is clearly not welcome. And the idea that it is unlikely that there will be a record in 2020 is not a theory, it's logic. 2012 was an outlier and now an outlier is needed on top of the previous outlier to maintain hope for a record.

The rest of ASIF is excellent. You don't have to censor me any more in the cryosphere Oren. I will stay out of your fief.


be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #706 on: June 11, 2020, 11:32:24 AM »
Hi P. .. such posts are off topic here .. Oren has directed you to threads awaiting your imput . Your self-censorship by refusing to post in the relevant threads is not Oren's problem , and i have no intention of allowing it to become mine . b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #707 on: June 11, 2020, 07:56:00 PM »
Egos are fun.

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #708 on: June 11, 2020, 10:18:03 PM »
The Pressing Need for Everyone to Quiet Their Egos
Why quieting the ego strengthens your best self

By Scott Barry Kaufman on May 21, 2018

We live in some times. On the one hand, things are better than they've ever been. Overall rates of violence, poverty, and disease are down. There have been substantial increases in education, longevity, leisure time, and safety. On the other hand... We are more divided than ever as a species. Tribalism and identity politics are rampant on all sides of everything.

Steven Pinker and other intellectuals think that the answer is a return to Enlightenment values-- things like reason, individualism, and the free expression of as many ideas as possible and an effective method for evaluating the truth of them. I agree that this is part of the solution, but I think an often underdiscussed part of the problem is much more fundamental: all of our egos are just too damn loud.*

Watching debates in the media (and especially on YouTube) lately has been making my head explode. There seems to be this growing belief that the goal is always to win. Not have a dialectical, well-intentioned, mutual search for overarching principles and productive ways forward that will improve humanity-- but to just win and destroy.

Now, don't get me wrong-- I find a good intellectual domination just as thrilling as the next person. But cheap thrills aside, I also care deeply about there actually being a positive outcome. Arriving at the truth and improving society may not be explicit goals of a WWE match, but surely these are worthy goals of public discourse?

There is also an interesting paradox at play here in that the more the ego is quieted, the higher the likelihood of actually reaching one's goals. I think we tend to grossly underestimate the extent to which the drive for self-enhancement actually gets in the way of reaching one's goals-- even if one's goals are primarily agentic.

Since psychologists use of the term ego is very different ways, let me be clear how I am defining it here. I define the ego as that aspect of the self that has the incessant need to see itself in a positive light. Make no doubt: the self can be our greatest resource, but it can also be our darkest enemy. On the one hand, the fundamentally human capacities for self-awareness, self-reflection, and self-control are essential for reaching our goals. On the other hand, the self will do anything to disavow itself of responsibility for any negative outcome it may have played a role. As one researcher put it, the self engenders “a self-zoo of self-defense mechanisms.” I believe we can refer to these defensive strategies to see the self in a positive light as the “ego”. A noisy ego spends so much time defending the self as if it were a real thing, and then doing whatever it takes to assert itself, that it often inhibits the very goals it is most striving for.

In recent years, Heidi Wayment and her colleagues have been developing a “quiet ego” research program grounded in Buddhist philosophy and humanistic psychology ideals, and backed by empirical research in the field of positive psychology. Paradoxically, it turns out that quieting the ego is so much more effective in cultivating well-being, growth, health, productivity, and a healthy, productive self-esteem, than focusing so loudly on self-enhancement.

To be clear, a quiet ego is not the same thing as a silent ego. Squashing the ego so much that it loses its identity entirely does not do yourself or the world any favors. Instead, the quiet ego perspective emphasizes balance and integration. As Wayment and colleagues put it, “The volume of the ego is turned down so that it might listen to others as well as the self in an effort to approach life more humanely and compassionately.” The quiet ego approach focuses on balancing the interests of the self and others, and cultivating growth of the self and others over time based on self-awareness, interdependent identity, and compassionate experience.

The goal of the quiet ego approach is to arrive at a less defensive, and more integrative stance toward the self and others, not lose your sense of self or deny your need for the esteem from others. You can very much cultivate an authentic identity that incorporates others without losing the self, or feeling the need for narcissistic displays of winning. A quiet ego is an indication of a healthy self-esteem, one that acknowledges one’s own limitations, doesn’t need to constantly resort to defensiveness whenever the ego is threatened, and yet has a firm sense of self-worth and competence.

According to Bauer and Wayment, the quiet ego consists of four deeply interconnected facets that can be cultivated: detached awareness, inclusive identity, perspective-taking, and growth-mindedness. These four qualities of the quiet ego contribute to having a general stance of balance and growth toward the self and others:
  • Detached Awareness. Those with a quiet ego have an engaged, nondefensive form of attention to the present moment. They are aware of both the positive and negatives of a situation, and their attention is detached from more ego-driven evaluations of the present moment. Rather, they attempt to see reality as clearly as possible. This requires openness and acceptance to whatever one might discover about the self or others in the present moment, and letting the moment unfold as naturally as possibly. It also involves the ability to revisit thoughts and feelings that have already occurred, examine them more objectively than perhaps one was able to in the moment, and make the appropriate adjustments that will lead to further growth.
  • Inclusive Identity. People whose egos are turned down in volume have a balanced or more integrative interpretation of the self and others. They understand other perspectives in a way that allows them to identify with the experience of others, break down barriers, and come to a deeper understanding of common humanity. An ability to be mindful, and the detached awareness that comes with it, can help facilitate an inclusive identity, especially under moments of conflict, such as having one’s identity or core values challenged. If your identity is inclusive, you’re likely to be cooperative and compassionate toward others rather than only working to help yourself.
  • Perspective-Taking. By reflecting on other viewpoints, the quiet ego brings attention outside the self, increasing empathy and compassion. Perspective taking and inclusive identity are intimately intertwined, as either one can trigger the other. For instance, the realization of one’s interdependence with others can lead to a greater understanding of the perspective of others.
  • Growth-Mindedness. A concern for prosocial development and change for self and others over time causes those with a quiet ego to question the long-term impact of their actions in the moment, and to view the present moment as part of an ongoing life journey instead of a threat to one’s self and existence. Growth-mindedness and perspective taking complement each other nicely, as a growth stance toward the moment clears a space for understanding multiple perspectives. Growth-mindedness is also complementary to detached awareness, as both are focused on dynamic processes rather than evaluation of the final product.
These qualities should not be viewed in isolation from each other, but as part of a whole system of ego functioning. Curious where you lie on the quiet ego continuum? Here are 14 items that will give you a rough estimation. If you find yourself nodding in strong agreement to most of these items, you probably have a quiet ego:

Quiet Ego Scale (QES)
  • I often pay attention when I am doing things.
  • I don’t do jobs or tasks automatically, I am aware of what I’m doing.
  • I don’t rush through activities without being really attentive to them.
  • I feel a connection to all living things.
  • I feel a connection with strangers.
  • I feel a connection to people of other races.
  • Before criticizing somebody, I try to imagine how I would feel if I were in their place.
  • When I’m upset at someone, I usually try to put myself in his or her shoes for a while.
  • I try to look at everybody’s side of a disagreement before I make a decision.
  • I find it easy to see things from another person’s point of view.
  • For me, life has been a continuous process of learning, changing, and growth.
  • I think it is important to have new experiences that challenge how you think about yourself and the world.
  • I have the sense that I have developed a lot as a person over time.
  • When I think about it, I have really improved a lot as a person over the years.

Those scoring higher on the Quiet Ego Scale tend to be more interested in personal growth and balance and are more likely to seek growth through authenticity, mastery, and positive social relationships. While a quiet ego is positively related to having a healthy self-esteem, resilience, and healthy coping strategies for dealing with life’s stressors, it is also related to humanitarian attitudes and behaviors. This is consistent with the idea that a quiet ego balances compassion with self-protection and growth goals. Indeed, a good indication that one is growing is that the ego is quieting. A quiet ego is also associated with humility, spiritual growth, flexible thinking, open-minded thinking, the ability to savor everyday experiences, life satisfaction, risk-taking, and the feeling that life is meaningful. It’s clear that a quiet ego is very conducive to living a full existence.

In my own research, I found a zero relationship between having a quiet ego and scores on a measure of"self-sacrificing self-enhancement", which is a actually facet of narcissism. Self-sacrificing self-enhancement is measured by items such as:
  • Sacrificing for others makes me the better person.
  • I try to show what a good person I am through my sacrifices.
  • I like to have friends who rely on me because it makes me feel important.
  • I feel important when others rely on me.
This suggests that quieting the ego is not about just any sort of other-concern (such as the ego-driven need to appear compassionate).It seems that the quiet ego is related to a genuine concern for the growth and development of self and others. In line with this, I found that the quiet ego was positively related to measures of compassion and empathy that were negatively correlated with self-sacrificing self-enhancement. Consistent with prior research, I also found a positive relationship between a quiet ego and self-compassion.It appears then that those with a quiet ego tend be loving, giving people, but also take care of themselves just as compassionately as they tend to take care of others.

Another recent study conducted by Heidi Wayment and Jack Bauer further supports the notion that the quiet ego really does balance the needs of self and others. They found that having a quiet ego was associated with self-transcendent values-- such as universalism and benevolence-- as well as self-direction and achievement. Also, the quiet ego was unrelated to conformity.

These results underscore the centrality of growth and balance values to the quiet ego construct, and make clear that quieting the ego does not quiet the self. In fact, I would like to put forward the following equation:

The quieter the ego = The stronger one's best self emerges

I think it's time for our society to realize (and put into practice) the fact that you don't have to choose either concern for the self or concern for others. In fact, intentionally practicing to maintain a healthy balance between these fundamental concerns is most conducive to health, growth, well-being, high performance, creativity, and actually arriving at the truth.

Imagine if in addition to learning math, reading, and sex education in school, we also learned how to cultivate the four characteristics of the quiet ego? Or imagine if before any potentially heated public debate, the ground rules included at least an attempt for all participants to practice these characteristics? Better yet, how about instead of the goal of the debate being "who won?", the debate concludes by having each participant state the things they learned from the other person as a result of the discussion? Would that really be so boring? If so, then I think the problem cuts even deeper than I thought.

I don't think it's an overstatement to say that the cultivation of these skills in our society would lead to greater mental health, useful reality-based information, as well as peace and unity among humans.Instead of destroying each other how about we learn from each other?

© 2018 Scott Barry Kaufman, All Rights Reserved

* I say "all of us" because I really do believe that all of us (including me!) can benefit from cultivating a quieter ego. This is a lifelong practice, and one that each of us are capable of committing to and moving toward in our daily lives. Recent research (see Discussion section of this paper) suggests that there are activities that do in fact enhance people's quiet ego functioning.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Scott Barry Kaufman, Ph.D., is a humanistic psychologist exploring the depths of human potential. He has taught courses on intelligence, creativity, and well-being at Columbia University, NYU, the University of Pennsylvania, and elsewhere. In addition to writing the column Beautiful Minds for Scientific American, he also hosts The Psychology Podcast, and is author and/or editor of 9 books, including Transcend: The New Science of Self-Actualization, Wired to Create: Unravelling the Mysteries of the Creative Mind (with Carolyn Gregoire), and Ungifted: Intelligence Redefined. In 2015, he was named one of "50 Groundbreaking Scientists who are changing the way we see the world" by Business Insider. Find out more at http://ScottBarryKaufman.com.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 10:31:32 PM by Freegrass »
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

Phoenix

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #709 on: June 12, 2020, 01:27:41 AM »
IMO, your post is a beautiful contribution Freegrass.  I'll highlight one section....

I also care deeply about there actually being a positive outcome. Arriving at the truth and improving society may not be explicit goals of a WWE match, but surely these are worthy goals of public discourse. There is also an interesting paradox at play here in that the more the ego is quieted, the higher the likelihood of actually reaching one's goals

The author expresses the Buddhist preference for a positive outcome and makes reference to achieving one's goals. My observation is that ASIF is kinda silent in the matter of intentions.
What's the goal here?

In an era in which we approach the possibility of collapse, we have different constituencies. There are those who want to bear witness to collapse that they see as inevitable and those who want to share information that will help to lessen or avoid collapse. There are a few who openly root for collapse.

ASIF seems a little like Switzerland in WW II. I think most of the citizens are hopeful of avoiding a collapse, but the official policy is neutrality. Avoiding collapse doesn't seem to be a shared goal of the community.

Now that there is a change in moderation team, possibly there is an opportunity to explore if the community is interested in taking a position regarding whether collapse avoidance should be a goal.



Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #710 on: June 12, 2020, 02:36:53 AM »
When I was in a temple in Thailand for a meditation retreat years ago, the monk taught us that "I" don't exist. Because "I" is ego...

I was planning to go back this year, but SARS2 put a damper on that plan. :'(  As soon as I can, I'll be back! Because my ego has grown to enormous proportions again...  :(
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #711 on: June 12, 2020, 03:24:29 AM »
"We" do not have a shared goal .
We are all interested in the fate of the ice .
By extension this is a forum about AGW .
On a personal level I am confident I do as much as any one and more than most about the human impact on this planet. My reasoning for my actions will not coincide with every one or even anyone else. I do not expect it to because I am a result of my own unique life experience. 
 I am not here to preach to you or to boost my ego.
I am here to expand my knowledge by communicating with others. Occasionally I may even manage to add a valuable insight drawn from my own experience.
Quote
The Dunning-Kruger effect is a type of cognitive bias in which people believe that they are smarter and more capable than they really are. Essentially, low ability people do not possess the skills needed to recognize their own incompetence. The combination of poor self-awareness and low cognitive ability leads them to overestimate their own capabilities.
Certainty is a cognitive failure.
To  me it is never about what we know it is more about  learning more about what we don't know.
There are some many extremely smart and knowledgeable contributors to this forum.
Please remember.
 Sometimes you must suppress your ego to give you the space to learn.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 03:36:49 AM by KiwiGriff »
“If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #712 on: June 12, 2020, 05:36:23 AM »
About gerontocrat post
    https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,317.msg268213.html#msg268213
and my post
    https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,317.msg268037.html#msg268037
In thread: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD

Subject: Ignore lists.

Dear gerontocrat, do you perhaps have me on 'ignore'?
Not saying you have but I posted the same Guardian article 5 posts upthread there. Of course it could be that you have simply overlooked my post. I'd like to know. This post is not aimed at you, just a recent observation that made me write this general post about 'ignore'.

I post here because this is not the first time I noticed something like this, not from you gerontocrat but in general. It could be just carelessness from others but otherwise it demotivates me to further post and engage in this forum. I am for some time under the impression that I am on people's ignore lists and don't like that impression. Most times I put real effort and often new views and ideas in my posts. My alien perspectives and being different can be irritating I guess, but shouldn't be a reason for blocking. I feel strongly about that.

I think ignore lists should be stopped and I can't imagine a valid reason for why people would want to put me on ignore (not saying they have). I have and have had nobody on ignore. Ignore lists create bubble's with the exception of ignoring clear trolls. I don't even ignore posters whom I think are trolls. I deal with the inconvenience.

I wish that I am completely mistaken and nobody has me on ignore. Then I would know that, when such things happen, it's just sloppyness.
Perhaps a moderator has access to ignore-lists and would be so friendly to privately inform me about it.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

oren

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #713 on: June 12, 2020, 08:01:02 AM »
I do not have access to ignore lists, but I can tell you I have never blocked anyone myself. And I find it hard to believe that you are blocked by anyone, but if a couple of posters choose to do so for their own reasons, just never mind it.

Also remember, sloppiness is much more prevalent than nastiness. Don't jump to conclusions unless very good reasons exist.

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #714 on: June 12, 2020, 08:17:10 AM »
Thanks oren for healing my doubts :)
I withdraw my request.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

gerontocrat

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #715 on: June 13, 2020, 12:34:15 AM »
About gerontocrat post
    https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,317.msg268213.html#msg268213
and my post
    https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,317.msg268037.html#msg268037
In thread: Climate change, the ocean, agriculture, and FOOD

Subject: Ignore lists.

Dear gerontocrat, do you perhaps have me on 'ignore'?
Not saying you have but I posted the same Guardian article 5 posts upthread there. Of course it could be that you have simply overlooked my post. I'd like to know. This post is not aimed at you, just a recent observation that made me write this general post about 'ignore'.

I wish that I am completely mistaken and nobody has me on ignore. Then I would know that, when such things happen, it's just sloppyness.
Perhaps a moderator has access to ignore-lists and would be so friendly to privately inform me about it.
I plead sloppyness. There is loads of stuff I don't look at. A small miracle I read this - pushed a button when dumping me mobile on the floor.

Ps : "Ignore" I do not do by technology. These days my brain does it for me without being asked,  even when I would prefer not to be comatose.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #716 on: June 15, 2020, 04:25:40 AM »
Thanks gerontocrat. I have many encounters with old men losing brain capacities/functionality and I see it in myself (short term memory, motivation) as well. Hard to accept but inevitable. You gero have to lose a very significant part to not be special anymore. Focus on your continuing strengths and try to work around the rest, that is what I do. In the meantime, the most important core of what remains is one's morality and ethics i.e. being a 'beautiful human'.


I have a question. Does my use of "Dear ..." come across as condescending or patronizing?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 04:33:49 AM by nanning »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

johnm33

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #717 on: June 16, 2020, 12:22:06 PM »
I agree with Neven, at least about it being nothing much to do with individuals. If you abandon morality and follow 'market rules' it is no different to abdicating responsibility for how society is set up. Society will inevitably follow the same 'game' plan which led to the structure the social insects have evolved, to whit a singular selfish center surrounded first by servants, then an uncompromising security service to defend against internal and external threats, and finally a disposable workforce pheremoned/hypnotised/terrorised/entranced into ignoring their own interests in favour of the center, a little like the USAs compliant client states.
Maybe honey ant colonies make a good analogy.
Since Kassy struck this through without comment or communication insights into the apparent offense would be welcome.

gerontocrat

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #718 on: June 16, 2020, 12:30:35 PM »
I have a question. Does my use of "Dear ..." come across as condescending or patronizing?
Depends on the context and on what the receiver wants it to mean, e.g.s

"How charming to receive a little bit of old-fashioned courtesy",

"How dare he, the condescending piece of............(refer to foul language thread for inspiration)".

I will let you know my decision on this as and when.......
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #719 on: June 17, 2020, 03:46:32 AM »
^^ Thank you.
Be assured that I mean "highly respected, revered ..." when I write "dear ...". I don't use it in another meaning here but was unsure about my usage because English is not my native language.
Yes please, correct me and don't let it go. I want to learn and get better.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #720 on: June 18, 2020, 03:42:16 AM »
Can anyone explain to me the benefit of ignoring me? What good does that do to the forum?
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #721 on: June 18, 2020, 03:50:57 AM »
I don’t ignore anyone.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #722 on: June 18, 2020, 03:57:56 AM »
No, not you. They know who I'm talking about. These people have been trying to get rid of me for more than a year now.

And even if I'm wrong sometimes, why not correct me and teach me? Not everyone is a "specialist". I'm here to learn within my own capabilities.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 04:12:37 AM by Freegrass »
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #723 on: June 18, 2020, 07:00:04 AM »
Freegrass, I have had the same doubts. I guess that popularity is a thing here and not all posts get the same attention and replies. This is not directly correlated with the quality of the post.
I don't ignore you but I don't visit most new threads you created because I don't find them interesting, sorry. I also don't visit political threads.
Time is a limiting factor for me as I don't want to put too much time on this forum. For me that's also a reason why I don't read all new threads. This has nothing to do with you or the quality of your posts. I think you are a valuable addition to this forum and perhaps still need to find a balance and adjust your expectations from posting here.

It's too bad that this is all so abstract here. How nice it would be to have great discussions in real life with forum members whilst passing the joint. Outside in a living nature setting. There are many dangers and shortcomings in abstract worlds. Most members don't even show their true names and won't give their emailaddresses or even real addresses. I know only of blumenkraft who gave his addresses and is as open as should be and therefore he is much less abstract for me. I have even sent him stuff by snailmail. A very pleasant exception. Thanks blumenkraft. If I would have the address of Terry (he only gave his email) then I would've sent him something nice because I miss him. Even better would be a phone number so you can at least hear the voice of the other person.

I also think that in an abstract world such as this forum, people tend to be more judgmental and careful, like a fearful snail that retracts its eyes when it doesn't like what it sees. This interpretation could be nonsense.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 07:05:56 AM by nanning »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

oren

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #724 on: June 18, 2020, 09:19:49 AM »
FG, I am not aware of anyone who has been trying to get rid of you. But in any case, if such a person exists, the best handling is to completely ignore them.
Note if you post something and few react, this could mean people have nothing valuable to add, or that the subject does not carry wide interest.

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #725 on: June 18, 2020, 02:07:33 PM »
Thanks to my ignore list, I only see oren's posts on this page.  ;) ;D

John_The_Elder

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #726 on: June 18, 2020, 03:55:03 PM »
 If I would have the address of Terry (he only gave his email) then I would've sent him something nice because I miss him. Even better would be a phone number so you can at least hear the voice of the other person.
Hi Nanning, here is Terry Moran's contact info (available to public). I tried to phone but no luck.

<please send via PM, John. You say available to the public and i believe this is to the best of your knowledge, but i don't know if Terry is OK with this. - BK>


« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 04:29:13 PM by blumenkraft »
John

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #727 on: June 18, 2020, 05:42:11 PM »
Maybe I'm just being paranoid again... Bad day... Thanks for the replies!
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

John_The_Elder

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #728 on: June 18, 2020, 05:54:28 PM »
If I would have the address of Terry (he only gave his email) then I would've sent him something nice because I miss him. Even better would be a phone number so you can at least hear the voice of the other person.
Hi Nanning, here is Terry Moran's contact info (available to public). I tried to phone but no luck.

<please send via PM, John. You say available to the public and i believe this is to the best of your knowledge, but i don't know if Terry is OK with this. - BK>
PM sent to Nanning, Thanks BK
John

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #729 on: June 18, 2020, 06:03:30 PM »
Thanks BK

Welcome, John. Glad you don't take any offence. :)
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

John_The_Elder

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #730 on: June 18, 2020, 06:41:43 PM »
Thanks BK

Welcome, John. Glad you don't take any offence. :)
Reply from Terry's wife on Facebook!
Carole Moran to John:  I will let him know so he can post a message. We are self quarantined. He is high risk due to his ongoing health issues, so we are being very careful. He is alive, reasonably alert, & still on the computer. His attention has been sidetracked to the violence happening in the U.S. Thanks for asking.

John

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #731 on: June 18, 2020, 07:03:01 PM »
✧ʕ̢̣̣̣̣̩̩̩̩·͡˔·ོɁ̡̣̣̣̣̩̩̩̩✧ woooooohooooooo
 
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

oren

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #732 on: June 18, 2020, 07:30:39 PM »
JTE, thanks a lot for this update. We have all been worried by the silence.

wili

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #733 on: June 18, 2020, 08:21:52 PM »
Wow, what a relief!! Send him our very best wishes.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

gerontocrat

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #734 on: June 18, 2020, 09:08:09 PM »
I will second (& 3rd) that - may the Gods be kind to him & his family.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

vox_mundi

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #735 on: June 18, 2020, 09:36:36 PM »
Ramen!!
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #736 on: June 19, 2020, 03:12:37 AM »
copied from the melt season thread ... Thanks Wildcatter  (as I pay for every byte and run out every month )

in relation to what is occupying centre stage ^^ the 'show' apparently must go on , but as A-team wrote (to me) this week last year ..

     ''at best Arctic weather can be predicted 3 days out whereas 90 days remain to minimum. i see zero interest in 3-10 day forecasts -- why not just wait the 3 days? it is already a full plate trying to track what is happening and reanalysis for what caused it.''

.. be cause ..

 addendum .. morality and the ASIF .. we may mostly agree 'BLACK LIVES MATTER' . However , as COVID-19 has so successfully exposed , skin tone and wealth are inter related . I'm choosing not to even go near threads on this forum because of the downloading costs . And I'm white as shite ! Do we choose to deny access to most of Africa (just for starters ?) Or the girl down the road at school whose mother can only buy the same deal as me . Should most of the world be denied the info and resource that this forum is by those who wish to be indulged ?
  Good night .. love and peace ..
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #737 on: June 19, 2020, 08:57:41 AM »
Re: Terry = O.K.

Hi John, I have not received a PM but am very happy with the message from Carole you posted. At least now we know he's alive and not in a much worse condition than two months ago. Not even in hospital. Quite a relief! \o/

Might you read this Terry, in my opinion, don't feel forced to post here. Stay isolated and cocooned until surroundings are safer again and you're feeling ready. I wish you and Carole strength and love in these testing times.  :-*
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

KiwiGriff

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #738 on: June 21, 2020, 05:35:30 AM »
Denial of reality .
I have two posters on my short list who I believe regularly insult this community by posting AGW denial.
At what point do they cross the line into out right denial and ban able behavior ?
AFAIK The last person who was banned from this forum was Klondike Kat . Klondike received the censure  during a discussion with me. I believe Klondike Kat at  that time was less deserving than those on my short list .
FWIW .
Alternative views can be  a learning experience .
Most of my learning about AGW was actually the result of research enabling the debunking of denial memes on political forums. I don't think we on this science centered forum should tolerate denial as was rampant in the political forums I was engaged in at the time.   

“If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #739 on: June 21, 2020, 12:08:30 PM »
Could you name the two? Or report them to the moderators at least?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #740 on: June 21, 2020, 05:00:09 PM »
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)

Bruce Steele

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #741 on: June 21, 2020, 06:18:05 PM »
Coo coo ca choo

Rod

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #742 on: June 22, 2020, 12:11:48 AM »
I think there is a sealion swimming around our forums.

I learned about them from following Michael Mann and Gavin Schmidt on Twitter.

It is annoying as hell, and disruptive to the members who want to have honest discourse.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 12:21:32 AM by Rod »

greylib

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #743 on: June 22, 2020, 12:42:17 AM »
Note if you post something and few react, this could mean people have nothing valuable to add, or that the subject does not carry wide interest.
I used to post on a general-knowledge forum (now defunct), particularly on the science, maths and philosophy threads. After a while I noticed that very often my post was the last in a thread. If I started a new topic, there were very few replies, often none at all.

This made me quite paranoid for a while, and I stopped posting, and even stopped visiting the forum - "If they don't need me, I don't need them" <stomps off>

Then the admin sent me an email, asking whether I was ok and why I'd stopped posting. I explained, and he took a look. Agreed with my findings, but not with my diagnosis. Apparently I spoke so forcefully, and was so often right <grin> that other forum members backed off from debate, giving me the last word every time.

So, I went back and changed my posting style. A lot more humility. Pointing out that I was unsure about something, and could someone help me out? It worked. Hopefully it's still working now. Certainly it's been a long time since my contribution has been the final word on any thread, in any forum  :)
Step by step, moment by moment
We live through another day.

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #744 on: June 22, 2020, 12:57:12 AM »
Note if you post something and few react, this could mean people have nothing valuable to add, or that the subject does not carry wide interest.
I used to post on a general-knowledge forum (now defunct), particularly on the science, maths and philosophy threads. After a while I noticed that very often my post was the last in a thread. If I started a new topic, there were very few replies, often none at all.

This made me quite paranoid for a while, and I stopped posting, and even stopped visiting the forum - "If they don't need me, I don't need them" <stomps off>

Then the admin sent me an email, asking whether I was ok and why I'd stopped posting. I explained, and he took a look. Agreed with my findings, but not with my diagnosis. Apparently I spoke so forcefully, and was so often right <grin> that other forum members backed off from debate, giving me the last word every time.

So, I went back and changed my posting style. A lot more humility. Pointing out that I was unsure about something, and could someone help me out? It worked. Hopefully it's still working now. Certainly it's been a long time since my contribution has been the final word on any thread, in any forum  :)

Thanks for sharing your experience. My $0.02 is that there should be no shame in striving for the right answer or the truth in a scientific setting. Humility is good in moderation, but it's too much if it means you are holding back from participating to the extent of your capability.

So long as the goal is not simply to serve one's ego, aiming to be right should be fine.

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #745 on: June 22, 2020, 01:03:24 AM »
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #746 on: June 22, 2020, 01:52:42 AM »
Note if you post something and few react, this could mean people have nothing valuable to add, or that the subject does not carry wide interest.
I used to post on a general-knowledge forum (now defunct), particularly on the science, maths and philosophy threads. After a while I noticed that very often my post was the last in a thread. If I started a new topic, there were very few replies, often none at all.

This made me quite paranoid for a while, and I stopped posting, and even stopped visiting the forum - "If they don't need me, I don't need them" <stomps off>

Then the admin sent me an email, asking whether I was ok and why I'd stopped posting. I explained, and he took a look. Agreed with my findings, but not with my diagnosis. Apparently I spoke so forcefully, and was so often right <grin> that other forum members backed off from debate, giving me the last word every time.

So, I went back and changed my posting style. A lot more humility. Pointing out that I was unsure about something, and could someone help me out? It worked. Hopefully it's still working now. Certainly it's been a long time since my contribution has been the final word on any thread, in any forum  :)
So that's why hardly anyone ever replies to me...  ::)
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

greylib

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #747 on: June 22, 2020, 02:38:45 AM »
Thanks for sharing your experience. My $0.02 is that there should be no shame in striving for the right answer or the truth in a scientific setting. Humility is good in moderation, but it's too much if it means you are holding back from participating to the extent of your capability.

So long as the goal is not simply to serve one's ego, aiming to be right should be fine.
My point (poorly made, I know) <humble, humble> was that no matter HOW right I was, the debate is still important. Science is never fixed, immutable. Even math, where you can prove what you say, isn't fixed. There's always something to say, but by being pedantic I was unknowingly shutting down the conversation.
Step by step, moment by moment
We live through another day.

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #748 on: June 22, 2020, 05:40:04 AM »


One of my fave songs from a fave band back when I wasn't old & decrepit. (hope this is the right thread)

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #749 on: June 22, 2020, 10:45:19 AM »
Sorry , my postings being a bit haphazard lately probably helped lead you astray . Perhaps the humor thread ?  ;) PC b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)