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gerontocrat

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #400 on: September 21, 2019, 01:20:49 PM »
Since Off-Topic is the flavour of the day, week, month, year (?), can I join in?

Even the name Bot just shows the intellectual poverty of most internet-based social media. Even the images are pathetic. Since, as they say, "the devil has the best lines"  I looked for some images of evil bots. The attached was the best I could find. A one-dimensional character with zero subtlety.

And as for Troll - compare the 2-dimensional character on the facebook emoji with the painting of a proper troll. You can see the grief and sadness from a life spent sitting in a cold stream under a bridge, despised, derided and acquainted with grief.

And what happens to him? Butted into oblivion by Big Billy Goat Gruff. What a way to treat oppressed minorities. And the story makes the goat the hero. Shame!
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kassy

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #401 on: September 21, 2019, 02:53:10 PM »
Well bots are basically doing things automatically at a real low level.

It is the volume and i actually advised him in a PM to just pick out the best 3 or 5 stories every day.

A lot of the stories have either been posted before sometimes just 2 posts up.
If you post links you might have the courtesy to check if they are already in the thread.

And many land in places where they are not actually on topic.

And some are low level. OK somebody has an opinion on the internet but do we need to be linked to that if they don´t offer new insights.

Then there are some questions and remarks which almost make me wonder if he actually reads the stuff or forms opinions on it.

It is very much like Obsessive-Compulsive behaviour.

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nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #402 on: September 21, 2019, 05:24:01 PM »
^^
I completely agree with kassy.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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GrauerMausling

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #403 on: September 22, 2019, 09:03:24 AM »
HEY! It's enough already guys!

How would you feel when people call you a bot, eh?
 
GrauerMausling, use the settings 'hide uses on ignore list'.

Have this already set, doesn't help with the 'Show unread post' feature.

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #404 on: September 22, 2019, 11:06:37 AM »
.. for the last 6 years my approach to this forum was to look at the recent posts so that I can pick up on the busier threads of the day .. a 'feel' for what is happening . To have that replaced by 15 or 20 posts that read Tom Tom Tom Tom .. I just see spam spam spam spam . I see successful disruption of my ( and others ) easy ability to follow the forum . I am told it is not intentional , just a side effect of being Tom . This may be true . What if there were 30 Toms posting 30 posts a day in 30 threads . Forum death would follow . b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

vox_mundi

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #405 on: September 22, 2019, 05:11:34 PM »
An analogy to what is going on seems to be like a DDoS

A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is a malicious attempt to disrupt normal traffic of a targeted server, service or network by overwhelming the target or its surrounding infrastructure with a flood of Internet traffic.

This efforts may, or may not be malicious, but the outcome is the same. It 'cools' participation by the other users in the forum.

Other users may look upon this as sniping, bullying or whining.

What it really is, is an expectation by all users to a level of moderation, and respect for the other users.

Monopolizing the forum is simply deliberate bad forum etiquette, especially if the issue has already been brought to one's attention. Linking to climate denial sites is also not appreciated.

If you can't meet that minimum, then lurk.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #406 on: September 22, 2019, 05:35:12 PM »
Well, he is over there fighting the good fight while we are picking on each other.

Your post may, or may not be malicious, Vox.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #407 on: September 22, 2019, 05:37:29 PM »
.. for the last 6 years my approach to this forum was to look at the recent posts so that I can pick up on the busier threads of the day .. a 'feel' for what is happening . To have that replaced by 15 or 20 posts that read Tom Tom Tom Tom .. I just see spam spam spam spam . I see successful disruption of my ( and others ) easy ability to follow the forum . I am told it is not intentional , just a side effect of being Tom . This may be true . What if there were 30 Toms posting 30 posts a day in 30 threads . Forum death would follow . b.c.

I agree.  Tom's trying to contribute, but the effect is a bit disruptive.  Maybe we can ask Tom to limit his posts to a single topic thread.  Create a new one if needed--maybe "leads from other sites, varied topics"?

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #408 on: September 22, 2019, 06:27:25 PM »
I think that's a good suggestion SteveMDFP.
And I understand and agree with your post vox_mundi (sorry blumenkraft).
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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philopek

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #409 on: September 22, 2019, 06:33:00 PM »
.. for the last 6 years my approach to this forum was to look at the recent posts so that I can pick up on the busier threads of the day .. a 'feel' for what is happening . To have that replaced by 15 or 20 posts that read Tom Tom Tom Tom .. I just see spam spam spam spam . I see successful disruption of my ( and others ) easy ability to follow the forum . I am told it is not intentional , just a side effect of being Tom . This may be true . What if there were 30 Toms posting 30 posts a day in 30 threads . Forum death would follow . b.c.

Big smile like so often when reading your spot on contributions

a) thanks, +1 while your words are soo... kind

b) been like that from day one ( I mean T. ) only that it started with entire threads.

c) i'm more concerned with the fact that no-one seems to care while every minor or
.  apparent small typo is nitpicked to oblivion and discussed in an unpleasant manner.

This and other kinds of disproportionalities are exactly what happens on planet earth
across the board and are  co-responsible that not many real solutions can be
implemented in time or not at all.

vox_mundi

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #410 on: September 22, 2019, 07:10:23 PM »
Sorry you fell that way bk. I bear no one ill will.

But intentions are not the same as outcomes.

Steve - Your suggestion has some merit, but it's also like rewarding a user for abusing privileges.

Perhaps a daily cap on posts for all users would be fair. Most of the regulars don't exceed ten/24 hr. It's might encourage a distillation of thought. That, unfortunately, may require software tinkering - probably a non-starter.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #411 on: September 22, 2019, 07:45:24 PM »
Sorry you fell that way bk. I bear no one ill will.

OK, i might have been a little unfair to you. Sorry for that, Vox.

The point i was trying to make is that Tom surely bears no malintent, and you should know it.

Quote
But intentions are not the same as outcomes.

I get that. But here is the context: Since Tom joined the forum he gets backlash for all kind of stupid things. He's called a troll for opening new threads. He was accused of plagiarism for not quoting correctly (no one ever told you that even though you are also not always using the quote notation correctly). And more stuff like this. And now he is called a spammer because he posts "too much" on some days.

He always obeys rules once pointed out to him. When users have a problem with Toms post frequency, perhaps send him a kind PM and tell him about how you feel about that? Must it always be public shaming and name-calling?

Quote
Perhaps a daily cap on posts for all users would be fair.


Yes, make rules and blame users who don't follow them. That would be fair at least. What's going on here right now is not fair.

Edit: In the Germany thread a user is spamming fake information and he is not called spammer. He is parroting Breitbart news without using quotation marks but is not called out for it. He is trolling with an openly racist and xenophobe attitude. Not called a troll though. Everyone is kind to him.

I guess it's proportionality what i'm missing.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 07:56:25 PM by blumenkraft »
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KiwiGriff

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #412 on: September 22, 2019, 08:18:18 PM »
If you don't like Toms content just hide user. that just leaves the name to scroll past .
I have one person on my hide user list because I do not find any of their comments worthwhile.
Gatekeeping ?
Tom seems to be attacked because he offends some commentators idea of their personal  ownership of this forum...
Mass  pile ons for minor infractions of unwritten rules of etiquette are not worthwhile or reflective of a community a lurker or new member  would like to join. 


vox_mundi

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #413 on: September 22, 2019, 08:54:48 PM »
It's blue skies, sunny, 85°F, and low humidity. Looking at a screen too long can be unhealthy.

Time to break out the liter stein and go to our local Octoberfest. Beer and brats await, and time moots all things.

The world can wait another day.

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #414 on: September 22, 2019, 08:58:46 PM »
Have fun, Vox! :)
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #415 on: September 22, 2019, 10:15:11 PM »
Time to break out the liter stein and go to our local Octoberfest.

I realise I'm from the wrong side of the North Sea, but we all use the same calendar. Unless I've accidentally slept for a fortnight it's not Oktober yet is it?
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

philopek

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #416 on: September 22, 2019, 10:21:18 PM »
Time to break out the liter stein and go to our local Octoberfest.

I realise I'm from the wrong side of the North Sea, but we all use the same calendar. Unless I've accidentally slept for a fortnight it's not Oktober yet is it?

No but it will go into the first week of October, it ends in October.

Further it's an old traditonal fair that even if they would shift it another week forward for whatever reasons, the name is here to stay because it's a BRAND ;)

The "Liter Stein" also know as a "Mass" and stands for the 1 Liter Glass/Krug of Bavarian Beer.

wili

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #417 on: September 22, 2019, 10:23:56 PM »
Read and learn, Grasshopper! :)

https://www.rd.com/culture/oktoberfest-starts-september/

Why Does Oktoberfest Start in September?
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

vox_mundi

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #418 on: September 22, 2019, 10:30:06 PM »
After the first liter (litre for those who can't spell) such subtleties as dates seem less important.

It's hot; I'll start with the Hefeweizen, thank you very much!  8)

https://m.bpt.me/event/4291354

Bethel’s own brewery Broken Symmetry will be pouring our Oktoberfest, Festbier and Hefeweizen! Great food vendors including Broken Symmetry, Taproot, J Lawrence, La Zingara/ ECCO rooftop and House of Yoshida. Live music with “The Hot Club of Black Rock, “The Pocket Hotties” and “Matt McNulty & Friend”

There will be contests including the infamous “Stein Holding” contest and activities scheduled throughout the day
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

kassy

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #419 on: September 22, 2019, 10:39:26 PM »
Re: 417 that is actually a really sensible reason. 

I always thought it was a trick to keep tourists away. :)

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P-maker

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #420 on: September 22, 2019, 11:06:31 PM »
Gents,

I realize this is the Forum Decorum thread. None-the-less, I learned today that a new trend amongst the youngsters has occurred. It is called the:

"Sober October"

Although, I remain sceptical, I was curious to know whether anyone had ever heard about this new youth movement? Is it anywhere near the XR or any similar movement in scale? Could it smash the beer drinking culture of southern Germany or any similar cultures around the World? Could it bring havoc to the ASIF and restore decent, thoughtful and respectful dialogue?

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #421 on: September 23, 2019, 01:19:58 AM »
Some of the complaints in here leave me scratching my head... then I realize it's because I totally avoid certain forum sub-sections.

Then I remember why, and these head-scratchers leave me feeling perfectly justified.

ShortBrutishNasty

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #422 on: September 23, 2019, 02:28:17 AM »
Re #413 / vox mundi

Hofbräu für die Oberkörperkraft ...  Nice.

RealityCheck

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #423 on: September 24, 2019, 09:52:09 PM »
"C'mere, Tommy-boy, there's 17 out of 22 most recent posts from you on the list... Jaysus, you must have fast fingers! You're givin' it welly tonight!"
Sic transit gloria mundi

pleun

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #424 on: September 24, 2019, 09:55:12 PM »
I was about to say something about it...
Not funny anymore
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 10:05:55 PM by pleun »

gerontocrat

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #425 on: September 24, 2019, 10:08:53 PM »
I turned ASIF off hoping Tomitis would be cured.

I return to find the virus is still multiplying.
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"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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vox_mundi

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #426 on: September 24, 2019, 10:25:15 PM »
37 38 as of 4:25 PM local time (I may have missed a couple). The day is still young.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 10:31:41 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

RealityCheck

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #427 on: September 24, 2019, 10:33:16 PM »
'Tommy's shtone mad for shpeed.'

Sic transit gloria mundi

pleun

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #428 on: September 24, 2019, 10:36:28 PM »
37 38 as of 4:25 PM local time (I may have missed a couple). The day is still young.

Maybe we could set up a poll and bet on it?

vox_mundi

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #429 on: September 24, 2019, 10:55:31 PM »
^
But what do you win, if you 'win'?
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

P-maker

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #430 on: September 25, 2019, 12:17:53 AM »
Somehow, I get the sense that both Tom-M and ASLR use some kind of semi-automatic systems to generate their contributions. Previously, I had to ask A-Team whether he actually had a team of "producers" behind him. His answer at that time was funny, but his luck ran out after a while.

Now, the question is whether semi-automatic blog "weapons" are allowed here to defend your right to express yourself, or whether these kinds of weapons of mass destruction should be tolerated in a civilized debate forum like this.

Personally, I would hate to see this turn into a series of "school shootings" with semi-automatic weapons fed by numerous publishers and web crawlers. If Neven could by some clever move make it absolutely clear that self defence is acceptable here, but otherwise posters should be asked kindly to leave their weapons in the small room at the entrance (våbenhus in Danish) before they enter the church.

sidd

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #431 on: September 25, 2019, 12:31:57 AM »
Re: automated posting

Yes these tools exist. For example, I have several feeds piped into solr/lucene (natural language analysis tools). I can query the engine for a term, say "climate." As of now that spits up several thousand articles ranked by relevance from the last three days. With a trivial amount of work i could pipeline those results into this forum.   

But of course, I dont.

Thts said, i very much doubt that Mr. Mananec or Mr. AbruptSLR use automation. Every day, just browsing my regular set of feeds, I see at least several dozen articles that would fit in on this forum. Manually  posting as i read would be easy, or saving a list to post later.

But I hardly ever post any of them. The ones i do post are the ones I am personally interested in and the ones i consider important. That's because i trust that the members of this forum are smart enuf to do their own homework.

And for the record, i think Mr. Mazanec posts as he sees fit, and has no malicious intent. Posting prolifically might be objectionable to some here, but labelling him a bot or questioning his motives is not kind.

sidd



philopek

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #432 on: September 25, 2019, 01:56:00 AM »
Tom cost me today 15 minutes alone to open the threads and close the window. 90% of all last posts by him.

Unfortunately to use the unread since last visit feature asks to at least open a thread so that next time we visit it shows only new ones and there won't be a growing amount of texts to read.

In that context I have to clearly complain, it's careless and coercion of some kind.

Of course that included the opinion that most of those posts have not much to contribute but are kind of mental masturbation IMO, sorry but it's way after midnight and a short stop on the forum to check for replies etc, should not several times each day absorb 15-20 minutes to get rid of one man's posts alone.


ShortBrutishNasty

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #433 on: September 25, 2019, 02:02:08 AM »
ASIF Readers:

There is some negotiation taking place with Tom.

Please stand by.

SBN

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #434 on: September 25, 2019, 06:12:16 AM »
Unfortunately to use the unread since last visit feature asks to at least open a thread so that next time we visit it shows only new ones and there won't be a growing amount of texts to read.

There is a 'mark as read' button!
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GrauerMausling

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #435 on: September 25, 2019, 07:07:22 AM »


There is a 'mark as read' button!

Are you kidding us?
The issue is that you don't know if the thread was just cluttered by Tom or if there is some interesting stuff from other members. How does the 'mark as read' should help?

Pmt111500

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #436 on: September 25, 2019, 07:21:21 AM »
Unfortunately to use the unread since last visit feature asks to at least open a thread so that next time we visit it shows only new ones and there won't be a growing amount of texts to read.

There is a 'mark as read' button!

Tried it. Granted I haven't been too active this summer here, using that marks even the interesting/useful bits. Ah well. It's sorta good to see there's activity on more general papers and websites, but just reminding members, fact-checking is very minimal here.

My (years back) suggestion of dividing the consequences and policies, or what it was, to 4-6 continental subsections could work, but i doubt it. Many areas of globe experience similar changes to other areas so the solutions, policies that might help could be common. I do not get the 'sigmetnow' divisions of what to discuss where, so I've kept myself mostly out of there.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 07:54:07 AM by Pmt111500 »
Cooling the outside by heat pump.

sidd

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #437 on: September 25, 2019, 08:44:42 AM »
So the list of threads with unread posts should not include threads where the only new post is by an author  belonging the readers ignore list.

Can that be done in the simplemachines software framework ? mebbe send a message to the dungeon master ?

sidd

Neven

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #438 on: September 25, 2019, 10:47:08 AM »
Sounds complicated!

I wasn't sure how to go about this, but I've taken it up with Tom now. He's a very reasonable guy, so I'm sure we can work it out.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #439 on: September 25, 2019, 01:41:35 PM »
I will post my AGW news items in my "Worst Consequences of AGW" thread.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #440 on: September 25, 2019, 03:06:06 PM »
And that's this thread, to be precise. Thanks, Tom.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #441 on: September 25, 2019, 04:48:38 PM »
Of course, since I will be posting on consequences instead of everything else, my posts will be more pessimistic on average from now on. But such is life...

EDIT: I will also add a brief comment on the article after the quote.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 05:01:39 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
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pleun

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #442 on: September 25, 2019, 06:14:31 PM »
It's your thread Tom. I think I speak for everyone if I say that you're allowed to drop anything you like in there...

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #443 on: September 25, 2019, 06:24:18 PM »
Thanks.
I feel that just replicating Daily Climate is not what I want to do. I feel consequences are the most important items. So I will focus on those.
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oren

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #444 on: September 25, 2019, 07:22:38 PM »
Thank you Tom.

RealityCheck

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #445 on: September 25, 2019, 07:30:14 PM »
Thanks Tom.
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GrauerMausling

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #446 on: September 26, 2019, 06:56:15 AM »
Thanks!

Susan Anderson

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #447 on: September 26, 2019, 05:01:43 PM »
Why is US politics again on "recent posts"?
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2441.msg230712.html#msg230712

Please put it in "off topic". It has little to do with the cryosphere (though I acknowledge US Republicans and Trump endanger the planet in every conceivable way), and when I last ventured to speak up in in that area, I once again faced a barrage of intolerant and in some cases ill-informed opinion. imnsho, this should not occupy space in the list of recent posts.

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #448 on: September 26, 2019, 05:16:40 PM »
I once again faced a barrage of intolerant and in some cases ill-informed opinion. imnsho, this should not occupy space in the list of recent posts.

I would rather see you there fighting the good fight with me, Susan. :) ;)
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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #449 on: September 26, 2019, 06:24:13 PM »
I agree with Susan.

In general I find this forum and forum-posters too much North-American oriented; many times I observe the views to be in a fortified bubble. Often as if that's the whole world, as if it's all there is. That inwards view gives metaphorical eye blinders. Confinement in a tunnel view. Loss of the big picture, loss of information, loss of global consistency regarding our knowledge of the changes going on, loss of justice for the 'other' people; those outside of rich people's view; those who suffer most from AGW related disasters, and clarity because politics, especially U.S.A. politics, are toxic.
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