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Susan Anderson

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #450 on: September 26, 2019, 07:58:03 PM »
I once again faced a barrage of intolerant and in some cases ill-informed opinion. imnsho, this should not occupy space in the list of recent posts.

I would rather see you there fighting the good fight with me, Susan. :) ;)

Thanks, but I tried and failed, for way too long. I don't have the time or the stamina, and Neven himself condemned my efforts. It's his forum.

@nanning, yes, we are too egocentric. And - OT alert - Boris Johnson suggesting that the murdered anti-Brexit campaigner should be "honored" by promoting Brexit is horrifying as well. There are too many dictators-in-training and racist otherblamers taking over too many governments around the globe. But I'm past apologizing for the likes of Mossadegh, Vietnam, Reagan/Thatcher, and Bush II, let alone Trump. It's awful!!!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 09:48:34 PM by Susan Anderson »

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #451 on: September 27, 2019, 09:38:06 AM »
having watched the UK parliament recently , our prime sinister could learn @ decorum from this forum .. :) .. b.c.
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Susan Anderson

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #452 on: October 06, 2019, 08:44:03 PM »
Here is a quote which I provide first, and hope it will be read before being dismissed. The explanation of why it is here follows directly. Since this is one of the best summaries of the problem I've ever seen, I felt it was worth putting it out of context, and lead this comment with it. It is equal opportunity in accusing big fossil of corruption everywhere.

Quote
The saga includes, among other incidents, the purposeful detonation of a 50-kiloton nuclear bomb 8,000 feet below the earth's surface (unsettlingly close to an I70 exit ramp in Colorado); an international financial crisis; a 28,000 ton vessel dragging unmoored and unmanned on the craggy coast of Alaska; tornadoes; the novelty of man-made earthquakes; murdered cows; and a third-grade public school teacher panhandling to provide school supplies for her students. Even an inept Russian spy ring ferreted out of suburban tract houses in New Jersey and Virginia. Even Russia's interference in the 2016 US presidential election. Seems unlikely, but it all ties.

The motive force of all the action - its fuel as well as its engine - is the most consequential, the most lucrative, the most powerful, and the least-well-governed major industry in the history of mankind. Oil and gas. I do not propose to discount or minimize the powerful and positive effects the producers of our hydrocarbons have had on our own country and on the world at large. I like driving ... and heating my house as much as the next person, and the through line between energy and economic growth and development is as clear to me as an electric streetlight piercing the black night. But the political impact of the industry that brings us those things is also worth recognizing as a key ingredient in the global chaos and democratic downturn we're now living through.

I don't mean to be rude, but I also want to be clear: the oil and gas industry is essentially a big casino that can produce both power and triumphant great gobs of cash, often with little regard for merit. This equation invites gangsterism, extortion, thuggery, and the sorts of folks who enjoy these hobbies. Its practitioners have been lumbering across the globe of late, causing mindless damage and laying the groundwork for the global catastrophe that is the climate crisis, but also reordering short-term geopolitics in a strong-but-dumb survival contest that renders everything we think of as politics as just theatre. It's worth understanding why. And why now.

Why is this here? Because Neven has shut down a discussion about Rachel Maddow's superb book about the history of oil and gas and its takeover of the world (quote is from her introduction), with some blistering insults and misrepresentations (see below). This is not true (I was going to say something stronger, the lack of skepticism reflects a strange lack of interest in the facts or the truth; it is hard to understand why Neven, who has does the world a great service as one of the world's most superb reporters on the cryosphere, chooses to be guided by hate on this). It is gaslighting, ad hominem, using personal attacks to discredit some of the best reporting on big fossil we have in the world today. I didn't know exactly where to put it, so here it is.

Please at least read the above quote with an open mind (it's from the introduction to Blowout. It is a powerful bit of truthtelling. To call the author one of the out-of-touch-millionnaire stooges of smoke-and-mirrors neoliberalism is wrong, and it does harm.

Quote
Re: Last Stand of The Fossil Fools« Reply #1 on: Today at 12:38:02 PM »

But this has nothing to do whatsoever with Arctic sea ice, and a video with two out-of-touch-millionnaire stooges of smoke-and-mirrors neoliberalism is about the worst starting point one could imagine.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 09:01:17 PM by Susan Anderson »

Neven

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #453 on: October 06, 2019, 09:08:44 PM »
I would have to read the book, but from what I've seen from that cringeworthy interview and this quote by Susan, I suspect it's shallow, superficial intellectualism that doesn't address the real elephants in the room (an economic system geared towards exponentially increasing and concentrating wealth).

Maddow is simply cashing in with John Le Carré-style thriller paranoia. Better spend your money reading Klein, Chomsky, Hedges and many, many others, whose minds haven't been perverted by ratings and obscene amounts of money.

Either way, FF's post was in the wrong category because it really didn't have anything to do with Arctic sea ice, and you could open a thread elsewhere, but I continue to maintain that this 'interview' is about the worst starting point one could imagine for a discussion.

Maddow was good in the past, but in recent years she has done a great disservice to the American people, and continues to do so. Not a disservice to people who are well-off and love to identify with 'smart' people, but to the majority of Americans. But she's not the only one. The entire American mainstream millionaire media has shown itself to be a fraud.

Denying this goes against the decorum of this particular forum.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #454 on: October 06, 2019, 10:13:42 PM »
Either way, FF's post was in the wrong category because it really didn't have anything to do with Arctic sea ice, and you could open a thread elsewhere

Fully agreed.

The rest is politically biased off-topic fluff, IMHO - same as the preceding post.

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #455 on: October 10, 2019, 04:57:23 PM »
<Snipped>

Including this post that makes it 5x OT Posts (quoted above included)

instead of letting it by.

I smell paybacks and it tells me who's who (what)

I'm not a sea-ice specialist but in studies of human behavior and how it's related to various
disasters in the past and upcoming. Thanks for the nice example, will add it to one of my studies / lectures.

This is Kafkaesque! Dude trying to start a meta-discussion in the data thread when asked to not use this thread for discussions. I would call this kind of behaviour impertinent.
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philopek

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #456 on: October 10, 2019, 05:06:42 PM »
<Snipped>

Including this post that makes it 5x OT Posts (quoted above included)

instead of letting it by.

I smell paybacks and it tells me who's who (what)

I'm not a sea-ice specialist but in studies of human behavior and how it's related to various
disasters in the past and upcoming. Thanks for the nice example, will add it to one of my studies / lectures.

This is Kafkaesque! Dude trying to start a meta-discussion in the data thread when asked to not use this thread for discussions. I would call this kind of behaviour impertinent.

Yes i am impertinent when it comes to hypocrisy and people who play "Moralapostel" while at the same time showing dogmatism, tendencies to rule, tendencies to set their own standard as the only valid and certainly against revenge fouls and "Betroffenheitsdemokraten" and "Denunziantentum"

Leute an den "Pranger" stellen wegen eines 3-Worte Vergehens.

To make it clear, yes it was not perfect, should have taken it to the freezing season thread, hence i have no issue to admit my mistake there, but it's neither up to you nor appropriate to post that because of 3 words referring to a post in the VERY SAME thread.

Further I'm used to look/see behind things, means motivation why who is doing what.

An error with proper motives is forgivable while anything with bad motive is to condemn.

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #457 on: October 10, 2019, 05:12:28 PM »
"Moralapostel"

What has thread discipline to do with morals?
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nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #458 on: October 20, 2019, 07:14:25 AM »
Just want to say: Thank you gerontocrat for your interesting and high quality non-datathread posts of late.
Also I think Terry and you write creative and eloquent English. Thank you both for your extensive vocabularies :).
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Aporia_filia

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #459 on: October 20, 2019, 11:30:22 AM »
^^^ yeah! Growing old with an open curious mind means becoming wiser as they show us!

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #460 on: October 24, 2019, 04:24:49 PM »
My dear Tor, congrats to 3k posts!

🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎇
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uniquorn

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #461 on: October 25, 2019, 01:06:58 AM »
what happened to sark's atmospheric connections thread?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 01:10:24 PM by uniquorn »

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #462 on: October 25, 2019, 06:51:08 PM »
WHAT?? ???

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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #463 on: October 25, 2019, 07:01:49 PM »
B_,
Relax, the mice in the inter-tuby-thing can only run so fast.  :P
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blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #464 on: October 25, 2019, 07:10:09 PM »
OK. Don't stress out the mice. Got it!  ;D
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nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #465 on: October 25, 2019, 08:24:52 PM »
I get that message a lot.

The mice must really hate me  :-[.
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be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #466 on: October 26, 2019, 12:50:13 AM »
                                Oh Buoy !

  Help needed with information overload .. MOSAiC news ..

  b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #467 on: November 01, 2019, 01:35:26 PM »
Grammarly has a new beta feature, the tone detector.

Will this placate the angry? Forum decorum salvaged once and for all?
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #468 on: November 01, 2019, 08:28:02 PM »
People will just try to get their jabs in more subtly, like what Tom and Dick Smothers did back in the day (to get past the censors).  But worth it!
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blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #469 on: November 02, 2019, 07:34:44 AM »
I don't know if i like an environment that makes it necessary to circumvent censors.

I'm all for subtile jabs though. :)
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grixm

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #470 on: November 02, 2019, 09:09:45 AM »
So what is the consensus about non-data posts in the data threads? I've heard many times that f.ex. only sea ice extent and area data should be posted in the sea ice extent and area data thread, and yet almost every day there are posts there with no such thing, just comments on the data or even unrelated season discussion. And they are almost never moderated. Are posts like that ok after all? If I want to comment on a chart, do I post it in the data thread or the freezing season thread?

oren

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #471 on: November 02, 2019, 10:04:31 AM »
I should think the Freeezing Season thread. But recently discipline has been flagging.

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #472 on: November 02, 2019, 10:23:13 AM »
So what is the consensus about non-data posts in the data threads?

They are shit!

It has taken a lot of time and energy, successes and failures to build a library of spreadsheets and data sources. So it is a bit annoying to think people have to wade through a load of clutter to reach the data.

This is a data thread. So, please please please bring data or a new way of looking at the data (when discussion is great).
If not, bugger off.

Emphasis by me.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #473 on: November 02, 2019, 10:25:49 AM »
Oren, congratulations on 4444 posts!! \o/

That's lovely. :)
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HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #474 on: November 02, 2019, 07:50:28 PM »
So what is the consensus about non-data posts in the data threads?

Shouldn't be there. Should be in the Melting/Freezing season sticky thread(s). Simple, IMO, and one can also easily include a direct link to whichever data post is being referred to.

sark

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #475 on: November 03, 2019, 09:23:59 PM »
I'm locking my thread, and I've already taken a copy for my use
I am not a scientist

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #476 on: November 03, 2019, 09:31:15 PM »
Sark, please don't.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #477 on: November 03, 2019, 10:05:57 PM »
I'm locking my thread, and I've already taken a copy for my use
I did not think any thread was owned - it sort of negates the whole idea of an open forum where ideas can be freely discussed.

If I can't comment on the thread opened by Sark, I would be grateful if he could ........

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nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #478 on: November 03, 2019, 10:13:14 PM »
blumenkraft and gerontocrat express my view as well. Please reconsider sark.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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sark

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #479 on: November 03, 2019, 11:50:44 PM »
locked or unlocked makes no difference to me.  it's unlocked.
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HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #480 on: November 04, 2019, 02:59:07 AM »
Your thread is my favourite thread on this forum, ever since you started it.

Whether I agree or disagree with its contents is irrelevant. I'm checking it more than twice daily because I'm extremely interested in the "wide angle lens" view that you are tackling within it. I doubt I'm alone, or in the minority (altho possibly I'm of a vocal minority).

Keep doing your thang.

sark

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #481 on: November 04, 2019, 06:32:42 AM »
Keep doing your thang.

well here's the deal.  I'm not going to put forward any effort.  I won't necessarily lock, delete, keep going, or stop.

anyone can come and deface it with denier style reasoning and that's fine.  I'm basically finished with the work and the thread is probably not going to be useful, going forward.  this is not the appropriate place, frankly.

that being said, there's really no reason to stop posting updates either.  I just don't know if that will happen or not.

let's hope the idea is batshit and this can come out as a climate thriller novel in a year.  that would be fun.

for now I'll just point you to my twitter @systemrename which gets updated more frequently, because it's been more convenient.  https://twitter.com/systemrename
I am not a scientist

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #482 on: November 05, 2019, 04:53:23 PM »
I did not think any thread was owned

On the other hand, wouldn't it be nice if a user had 1 thread no one other can post to? Like a personal feed.
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nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #483 on: November 05, 2019, 06:55:31 PM »
Sorry blumenkraft but I think that that would be detrimental to our forum because we are a special interest group and not social personal media.
I fear that popularity and celebrity will then emerge and unity will suffer.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #484 on: November 05, 2019, 08:10:00 PM »
You make it sound really bad, my friend. ;) ;D
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nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #485 on: November 05, 2019, 09:55:42 PM »
Good ;)
I don't hate personal channels at all. But they have their own place  :).
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #486 on: November 06, 2019, 01:04:50 AM »
.. and we can read anyone's posts anyway .. your posts ARE your personal channel .. :)   b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #487 on: November 06, 2019, 07:13:47 PM »
Ok, stupid idea, i get it!  :P  ;)
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