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Niall Dollard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #750 on: June 22, 2020, 10:55:27 AM »
Sorry , my postings being a bit haphazard lately probably helped lead you astray . Perhaps the humor thread ?  ;) PC b.c.

This is the thread for posting music :

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2306.1100.html

bluice

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #751 on: June 22, 2020, 01:44:29 PM »

Thanks for sharing your experience. My $0.02 is that there should be no shame in striving for the right answer or the truth in a scientific setting. Humility is good in moderation, but it's too much if it means you are holding back from participating to the extent of your capability.

So long as the goal is not simply to serve one's ego, aiming to be right should be fine.
Emphasis mine. What exactly is the extent of one's capability in a complex topic such as science and particularly on a narrow field of expertise such as arctic sea ice? Is it worth confronting people who either have a degree/profession on the field or years of experience following the subject?

I'm no expert and I just humbly follow people like Friv who are both knowledgeable and entertaining. I hope he keeps posting despite you confronting him

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #752 on: June 22, 2020, 04:27:40 PM »
Quote from: bluice
I hope he keeps posting despite you confronting him

Seconded
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

kassy

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #753 on: June 22, 2020, 05:53:57 PM »
Humility is good in moderation, but it's too much if it means you are holding back from participating to the extent of your capability.

This is of course actually bull shit. Humility is always good. In the grand perspective we are small and know little.

There is no need to push over simple theories that have been shown to be wrong. Maybe try actually reading links provided and mulling over how it really works.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Phoenix

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #754 on: June 22, 2020, 06:15:27 PM »

Thanks for sharing your experience. My $0.02 is that there should be no shame in striving for the right answer or the truth in a scientific setting. Humility is good in moderation, but it's too much if it means you are holding back from participating to the extent of your capability.

So long as the goal is not simply to serve one's ego, aiming to be right should be fine.
Emphasis mine. What exactly is the extent of one's capability in a complex topic such as science and particularly on a narrow field of expertise such as arctic sea ice? Is it worth confronting people who either have a degree/profession on the field or years of experience following the subject?

I'm no expert and I just humbly follow people like Friv who are both knowledgeable and entertaining. I hope he keeps posting despite you confronting him

I agree that Friv is both knowledgeable and entertaining and I also hope that he continues to post. I don't feel any personal issues here with anybody on my end. But in a science discussion, it should be important to let the facts be pursued and presented regardless of personal reputation.

After many years of looking at the same information over and over, we shouldn't discount the possibility of a fresh perspective being able to look at things in a new and useful way. I like solving puzzles and there's a ton of clues in the data, especially associated with the CAB.

I am exploring the possibility of the CAB as a more durable element of the Arctic which is apparently not a very popular or even welcome idea here. Friv represents the more popular near term doom perspective. It's not a personal difference. I'm trying to keep any disagreement grounded in math and science.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 06:39:57 PM by Phoenix »

kassy

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #755 on: June 22, 2020, 06:33:23 PM »
NASA made these long time Arctic ice animations. You had lots of thick ice and currently we have a skeleton of thick ice. Just watch one of those movies a couple of times.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #756 on: June 22, 2020, 06:44:35 PM »
Humility is good in moderation, but it's too much if it means you are holding back from participating to the extent of your capability.

This is of course actually bull shit. Humility is always good. In the grand perspective we are small and know little.

There is no need to push over simple theories that have been shown to be wrong. Maybe try actually reading links provided and mulling over how it really works.

I would invite you to comment in the threads in which I am posting and comment on the substance of what I am posting rather than posting ad hominem criticism.

ShortBrutishNasty

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #757 on: June 22, 2020, 10:59:55 PM »
Ah, some great stuff recently in Forum Decorum!

1. Haphazard states he only sees Oren thanks to his Ignore List!  That's one of the most elegant and economical posts I've seen on ASIF!

2. Kiwi reports a couple posters on his ban list--heck, yeah, this is a science forum!  There should be a real short fuse for the deniers.  Second utterance.  Buh, bye.

3.  Rod brought me up to speed on "Sea-lioning."  Nailed it!!  We got those!!  Last year, I petitioned Neven to dump this one psycho-bot, but Neven's dad had just died and the political will was not there.  Just a steady stream of posts that Reddit would ban in a heartbeat.

ALL HAIL THE IGNORE LIST!

mr. bob
Read the offender's post history.  That's not difficult.  --Goethe c. 1609

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #758 on: June 23, 2020, 12:57:50 AM »
Ah, some great stuff recently in Forum Decorum!

1. Haphazard states he only sees Oren thanks to his Ignore List!  That's one of the most elegant and economical posts I've seen on ASIF!

2. Kiwi reports a couple posters on his ban list--heck, yeah, this is a science forum!  There should be a real short fuse for the deniers.  Second utterance.  Buh, bye.

3.  Rod brought me up to speed on "Sea-lioning."  Nailed it!!  We got those!!  Last year, I petitioned Neven to dump this one psycho-bot, but Neven's dad had just died and the political will was not there.  Just a steady stream of posts that Reddit would ban in a heartbeat.

ALL HAIL THE IGNORE LIST!

mr. bob

If you ignore everybody who disagrees with you you will not learn anything new if you are wrong, and if you are right you will not be able to educate the poster (if he is not malicious) or anyone else (if he is). YMMV.
I don't ignore you bob, though you seem to be trying to make me do so.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Phoenix

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #759 on: June 23, 2020, 12:08:53 PM »

If you ignore everybody who disagrees with you you will not learn anything new if you are wrong,

This is a great point Tom, but how many people really want to learn anything new? 

Many deniers and doomers are more interested in confirming their respective biases than questioning them. I actually lean strongly toward the doomer side of the outlook on AGW as a whole, but if i challenge an assertion that there will be a record sea ice low this year, the ad hominem attacks come out and the scientific substance of the discussion is drowned out by the mob.

It's frustrating to try and make points with math and continually the argument is being shifted away from math toward personality.

Any online community that wants to take on an emotionally charged topic like AGW is going to have its work cut out in terms of finding a balance between the audience preference and scientific objectivity.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #760 on: June 23, 2020, 02:27:40 PM »
Well, this online community is doing a darn fine job.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #761 on: June 23, 2020, 02:33:34 PM »
+1
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #762 on: June 23, 2020, 08:56:00 PM »
"... and they are lucky that what black people are looking for is equality and not revenge."

Is this hate speech?

I think the message is quite clearly, "White people are lucky that Black people aren't hurting them."

I think promoting that sort of message is probably hate speech.


Oh no, this guys the mod! The fox is guarding the hen house.
big time oops

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #763 on: June 23, 2020, 09:04:28 PM »
Watch this GSY.

"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #764 on: June 23, 2020, 09:56:19 PM »
"... and they are lucky that what black people are looking for is equality and not revenge."

Is this hate speech?

I think the message is quite clearly, "White people are lucky that Black people aren't hurting them."

I think promoting that sort of message is probably hate speech.


Oh no, this guys the mod! The fox is guarding the hen house.

No.

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #765 on: June 23, 2020, 11:10:48 PM »
Watch this GSY.

Ya, that's exactly what I thought it meant.

White people are lucky the Black people aren't attacking them.

That's crazy sentiment. And hateful. And terrible for both white and black people.
big time oops

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #766 on: June 24, 2020, 09:09:45 PM »
Moved from the "George Floyd murder and blowback" thread:

It's been my life to understand what ails the world. And what ails the world is fear...

For what its worth, I stopped watching the brainwashing of US cable news and have lived w/o a TV for a long time. Life is more peaceful w/o the constant inflammation.
So you're ignorant while still trying to participate in a public Forum?

If I would truly live according to the teachings of the Buddha, then I would just accept impermanence and not try to make the world a better place... But it is my opinion that the world needs a good kicking in the ass, and so I can never be a Buddhist until I can get through to a few people that can continue my work and I can accept the world as it is...

Problem is that I never met a Buddhist giraf... They're dying because Fascist interpretations of religious beliefs that rule the world...

Edit: Wait, there is more to move.

Ok, folks, the detours is over. Back on topic, please (which is the George Floyd murder and blowback (which includes pointing out other kinds of police brutality/cruelty)). Everyone who doesn't like the premise of this thread is free to avoid it.
If that's the premise of this topic, then count me out...
I thought blowback meant helping out to find solutions for this cruelty.
Now I understand the only intention of this thread is the maintain the hatred...
GOOD LUCK!
Sign me out...

And there is more OT. This is getting too much and tiring.

It's been my life to understand what ails the world. And what ails the world is fear...

For what its worth, I stopped watching the brainwashing of US cable news and have lived w/o a TV for a long time. Life is more peaceful w/o the constant inflammation.
So you're ignorant while still trying to participate in a public Forum?


I lived in a household that had a cable news addiction a few years ago. I'm not ignorant of their formula and there are ways of keeping tabs on what they are talking about w/o watching. One can still read and stream an occasional episode if something especially noteworthy is going on.

MSNBC is boring as hell. It's the same Orwellian corporatist divide and conquer show every night. Why anyone would knowingly subject themselves to that every single day is beyond me.

I scan a bunch of subreddits to see which stories are popping to the top of the radar. Scan the NYT headlines and the Guardian for the more left leaning headlines. ASIF is actually a good place to keep a pulse on what's happening in a lot of the world.

Like yourself, I have an affinity for the principles of (secular) Buddhism. Try not to be attached, but act with a preference to reduce suffering. I kinda blog here about the American progressive movement developments as a way of staying in touch with the energy which seeks to balance the disease of acute Concentrated Wealth and depletion of our natural habitat. Yesterday was a nice step forward with the NY elections and I share that as a means of giving some hope for a better future.

My non PC posting on the sea ice also stems from a desire to instill hope within reasonable bounds. If someone is posting about the inevitability of near term sea ice collapse, I want to provide a voice for the possibility that things may not be quite as bad as they think.

Human civilization as a whole is in a very challenging spot, but unless we go extinct, life goes on and its up to all of us to try and make the best of it. In that regard, things are the same as they have always been... doing our best with the challenges that life throws out way.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 09:57:40 PM by blumenkraft »
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #767 on: June 24, 2020, 09:15:22 PM »
Moved from the "George Floyd murder and blowback" thread:

It's been my life to understand what ails the world. And what ails the world is fear...

For what its worth, I stopped watching the brainwashing of US cable news and have lived w/o a TV for a long time. Life is more peaceful w/o the constant inflammation.
So you're ignorant while still trying to participate in a public Forum?

If I would truly live according to the teachings of the Buddha, then I would just accept impermanence and not try to make the world a better place... But it is my opinion that the world needs a good kicking in the ass, and so I can never be a Buddhist until I can get through to a few people that can continue my work and I can accept the world as it is...

Problem is that I never met a Buddhist giraf... They're dying because Fascist interpretations of religious beliefs that rule the world...

Edit: Wait, there is more to move.

Ok, folks, the detours is over. Back on topic, please (which is the George Floyd murder and blowback (which includes pointing out other kinds of police brutality/cruelty)). Everyone who doesn't like the premise of this thread is free to avoid it.
If that's the premise of this topic, then count me out...
I thought blowback meant helping out to find solutions for this cruelty.
Now I understand the only intention of this thread is the maintain the hatred...
GOOD LUCK!
Sign me out...
Why? Are you afraid of the mirror?
Remember how you asked me in private if I had any friends?
Stop hating people you don't understand mister flower power dude!
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #768 on: June 24, 2020, 09:29:23 PM »
Who did more harm to this forum? Me with my ignorance about arctic science, or moderators with a giant ego that talk bad about members behind their back?
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #769 on: June 24, 2020, 09:47:09 PM »
moderators with a giant ego

psychological projection

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #770 on: June 24, 2020, 10:02:14 PM »
moderators with a giant ego

psychological projection

Quote
Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a bully may project their own feelings of vulnerability onto the target.

I'm not a moderator. I'm just a ignorant member who's here to learn more about the climate while trying to contribute within my own limitations and capabilities.

You got a problem with that?
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

igs

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #771 on: June 24, 2020, 10:05:05 PM »
moderators with a giant ego

psychological projection


That doesn't say anything whether the projection is correct or false.

Generally this topic is not worth such an exchange but there are people with a political agenda, means biased and not objective and sometimes it shows.

On the other hand I can support the thought that a discussion without purpose other than blaming or bathing in the mud of anger and frustration is not really target leading.

Mostly it takes two or more opposite views that are presented in kind of a short fused way that often is regretted immediately thereafter.

This entire topic is really not worth it, perhaps i could add that "taking sides" most often accelerates and increases emotions in such disputes. I doubt that anyone here needs fans and/or opponents or a "lawyer"

Sometimes I would like someone to know that i share his thought but then mostly send PM. Doing it publicly most often helps to make an elephant from a fly.


EDIT: BTW, opting out of an event does not have to be announced. If a person with influence/power is announcing to disconnect with a topic or a person it's a powertool/social weapon, often abused to bring the others on line.


In ancient times it was the system of "outlaws"
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 10:13:21 PM by igs »
Knowledge that does not increase every day will decrease every day !

Phoenix

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #772 on: June 24, 2020, 10:12:20 PM »
Who did more harm to this forum? Me with my ignorance about arctic science, or moderators with a giant ego that talk bad about members behind their back?

What is your goal FG ? How can others help you iterate to a more peaceful place?


Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #773 on: June 24, 2020, 10:20:35 PM »
Who did more harm to this forum? Me with my ignorance about arctic science, or moderators with a giant ego that talk bad about members behind their back?

What is your goal FG ? How can others help you iterate to a more peaceful place?
My goal is to serve my own ego.
What's yours?
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

Phoenix

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #774 on: June 24, 2020, 10:54:53 PM »

My goal is to serve my own ego.
What's yours?

My hope is to move in the direction of detachment to ego. Life seems more peaceful as I disappear and its no longer about me. 

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #775 on: June 24, 2020, 10:56:17 PM »
This entire topic is really not worth it

Nice post overall, I like it. I particularly agree with the above.

I mostly find how forum users [more precisely, their online egos] act/react amusing, overall, but also altogether off-putting when it snowballs too much. Sociology & being a longstanding forum admin myself (previously) is certainly at fault for that.

I'm not a moderator. I'm just a ignorant member who's here to learn more about the climate while trying to contribute within my own limitations and capabilities.

You got a problem with that?
Thanks FG, this thread is fun to watch.

Phoenix

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #776 on: June 24, 2020, 11:40:24 PM »
Here's a link to a blurb about insatiable ego...

https://nrhatch.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/the-insatiable-ego/

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #777 on: June 24, 2020, 11:44:49 PM »
Is this a good thing?
I have an Award! :D

March 1, 2019
The Great White Con 2019 “New Einstein” Award

https://greatwhitecon.info/2019/03/the-great-white-con-2019-new-einstein-award/

3) Freegrass at the ASIF, with:

What I found out these last 3 months as a Newbie on this forum is that some people here don’t like it when new members take away the spotlight from the oldtimers. All they do is moan and bitch over file sizes, but they fail to reply to any other message I post. So what we have here my dear friend is a textbook example of bigotry. We are excluded from the group… They rather have we left, so they get all the attention again… But who cares? Leave those idiots be. Do what you know to be right, and work together for the benefit of all mankind!

in conjunction with:

Your only contributions to this thread have been complaints and promotions for your own website.

Please refrain from doing so! If you have some Nullschool animation to contribute or comments on the work that is posted here, feel free to do so! If you only come here to complain and tell people what to do, please go away!

and not forgetting:

May I remind everyone that this is the Nullschool Animations thread. I made this thread because you bastards complaint about my graphics on the melting season thread, and now you come here to bitch AGAIN? GO FUCK YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

oren

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #778 on: June 24, 2020, 11:46:26 PM »
Gentlepersons, please chill. In times of anger it is best to hold one's tongue or keyboard, get a good night's sleep, and try to forget it by morning.
Remember this is the Arctic Sea Ice Forum, focused on science. Politics is a bonus here (actually punishment but never mind), if you run into resistance  in the politics section just drop it, totally not worh it.

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #779 on: June 24, 2020, 11:59:25 PM »
I don't think you can separate the science from the politics Oren... Science helps us to understand the multiverse, politics tries to convince us all that all that science is just a pain in the ass for economics, ego, and religion...

But you're right... I'll shut up now...

Bolton on CNN now!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 12:10:37 AM by Freegrass »
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

igs

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #780 on: June 25, 2020, 12:50:05 AM »
Here's a link to a blurb about insatiable ego...

https://nrhatch.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/the-insatiable-ego/

 :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

I assume you will like this

« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 01:05:06 AM by igs »
Knowledge that does not increase every day will decrease every day !

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #781 on: June 25, 2020, 01:20:30 AM »
Here's a link to a blurb about insatiable ego...

https://nrhatch.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/the-insatiable-ego/

 :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

I assume you will like this


I I I I I... that's all he talked about...
Way too much ego...

Try this...

If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

Freegrass

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #782 on: June 25, 2020, 01:50:56 AM »
Crying my eyes out again after watching His Holiness the Dalai Lama...
It could all be so simple if we would just listen to the teachings of our Buddha instead of the constand hatred and division on TV...  :'(

Is the melting season over yet?
Let's do another video to satisfy my ego...
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 01:58:04 AM by Freegrass »
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.

igs

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #783 on: June 25, 2020, 08:47:43 PM »
[quote auI I I I I... that's all he talked about...
Way too much ego...

If you make one or several discoveries for yourself how would you share such information with others other than to say what you went through as a process and that would therefore include the word "I" many times?

I can tell you on the side that before my retirement it's been my job to analyse personalities on behalf of my customers and/or superiors and that during this entire video there rang no alarm bells.

This does not imply that your observation is not correct, in fact it is, what i judge differently is the motivation and energy behind it and if someone is of clean intention the word I can become a statement of fact, other than a bragging tool.


Also the word "I" can be used to relativize a statement as one that is "My" opinion but not necessarily a fact or generally valid. Even such a fair statement would include the word "I" "My" or "for me" sometimes, not say most of the time.


Also I agree with you that a careful use of common words like i.e. "pride/I'm proud" or I was right instead of it was correct etc. can be taking many edges from a dispute/discussion therefore is very much recommended. This BTW is the reason why I took this further and ask you the initial question. Give me a few examples and I'll gladly add it to my vocabulary and semantics in a way to drop custom terms and use better ones instead. ( you see how many time "I" are in this little post ?)

Also without ego we won't survive, neither as a species nor as an individual, hence, not ego itself is the problem but the lack of control or the level of Ego-Control so to speak.

We can take this further, I love to share on this topic as well as to intermittently learn some new viewing angles but then we would have to find another place because it's getting off topic somehow.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 09:31:04 PM by igs »
Knowledge that does not increase every day will decrease every day !

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #784 on: June 25, 2020, 09:45:50 PM »
People often use the term "ego" when they're really talking about 1 of the following 3 specifics: Id, Ego, Super-Ego. Gets confusing.

uniquorn

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #785 on: June 25, 2020, 10:57:58 PM »
People often use the term "ego" when they're really talking about 1 of the following 3 specifics: Id, Ego, Super-Ego. Gets confusing.
Perhaps this could be the basis of one of the questions for new users to separate them from bots ;)
btw I never thought that people who post here were bots but many of the counted clicks could be.

kassy

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #786 on: June 26, 2020, 01:43:09 PM »
Meet the OTOT thread where you can discuss all your favorite psychological theories:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2995.0.html
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #787 on: June 26, 2020, 01:56:37 PM »
  ^^ I go where 'e goes ..:)
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)

Rod

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #788 on: June 28, 2020, 02:39:30 AM »
There are several sea ice scientists who follow this forum. Many of them have user names and have been contributors in the past.

However, when the political section became so big, it made it very difficult for them to post here. A-Team complained about that and got the political posts hidden from the main page.

Even with the political section hidden from the main page, it would be potentially damaging to a scientist to post here for fear of being associated with political radicals.  That might be why they have all stopped contributing.

In the past, we have discussed making two forums: one for the political activists and one for the sea ice science.  Neven was not in favor of it because he had to deal with the whole thing.

Now we have three very good moderators to help him out.  Can we revisit the issue of moving the political threads to a different website and keep the sea ice science separate?

I think that might help bring back some people who care about the science, but don’t want to get bogged down in, or associated with, the political discussions.

I’m not saying that the political threads are not important. I’m simply suggesting that it makes sense to separate them from the science threads by putting them on a different forum.

I will probably get a lot of hate for this suggestion, but I come here to learn about the science, and a lot of the science minded people seem to have left because of the political debate.

sidd

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #789 on: June 28, 2020, 03:14:15 AM »
Re:  they have all stopped contributing.

Do tell ? Who are the scientists who have stopped contributing here ?

I find that lack of participation in a web forum by scientists is usually because they are too busy, being, you know, scientists. See realclimate for examples, you can tell when they have some time by the frequency of their posts and speed of moderation (or lack thereof ...)

sudd

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #790 on: June 28, 2020, 03:57:01 AM »
As a long-time mostly-lurker, my 2 cents is: the only thing I care about here is the science. The rest is fluff, at best, and often just gets in the way.

be cause

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #791 on: June 28, 2020, 04:00:26 AM »
^^ + 1
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)

nanning

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #792 on: June 28, 2020, 07:53:33 AM »
I am not a cryosphere poster and I am not a political sphere poster. This forum is much more than just cryosphere and politics!

We study the cryosphere because of the planetary climate emergency. There's also the biosphere emergency and civilisation emergency.
Fundamentlly this is all about the humongous planetary emergency, threatening to become an anthropogenic apocalypse.
So not just about cryosphere, even though that was the initial setup.

The situation has changed. The current situation is a fast growing planetary emergency which affects almost all threads.

Most threads fall into the planetary emergency category. Don't split the forum.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

gerontocrat

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #793 on: June 28, 2020, 08:18:15 AM »
There are several sea ice scientists who follow this forum. Many of them have user names and have been contributors in the past.

However, when the political section became so big, it made it very difficult for them to post here. A-Team complained about that and got the political posts hidden from the main page.

Even with the political section hidden from the main page, it would be potentially damaging to a scientist to post here for fear of being associated with political radicals.  That might be why they have all stopped contributing.

In the past, we have discussed making two forums: one for the political activists and one for the sea ice science.  Neven was not in favor of it because he had to deal with the whole thing.

Now we have three very good moderators to help him out.  Can we revisit the issue of moving the political threads to a different website and keep the sea ice science separate?

I think that might help bring back some people who care about the science, but don’t want to get bogged down in, or associated with, the political discussions.

I’m not saying that the political threads are not important. I’m simply suggesting that it makes sense to separate them from the science threads by putting them on a different forum.

I will probably get a lot of hate for this suggestion, but I come here to learn about the science, and a lot of the science minded people seem to have left because of the political debate.
Trouble is that we seem to have reached "The Last Chance Saloon" to prevent high further Global heating. So the science is now very political.

So where does this recent post by me on "Climate Change Acceptance & Action" belong - science or politics?

A factor of two: how the mitigation plans of ‘climate progressive’ nations fall far short of Paris-compliant pathways
Quote
The Paris Agreement establishes an international covenant to reduce emissions in line with holding the increase in temperature to ‘well below 2°C … and to pursue … 1.5°C.’ Global modelling studies have repeatedly concluded that such commitments can be delivered through technocratic adjustments to contemporary society, principally price mechanisms driving technical change. However, as emissions have continued to rise, so these models have come to increasingly rely on the extensive deployment of highly speculative negative emissions technologies (NETs).
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14693062.2020.1728209?scroll=top&needAccess=true

and then there is this one....
UK Export Finance set to back Total's $20 bln Mozambique LNG project
Quote
JOHANNESBURG/LONDON (Reuters) - Britain’s export credit agency UK Export Finance (UKEF) is set to back a $20 billion liquefied natural gas (LNG) project in Mozambique, a source with direct knowledge of the matter told Reuters on Friday.

UKEF listed the project, led by French energy major Total, as under consideration for financing last August. A decision to contribute will draw criticism from campaigners who have opposed such a move. The source said UKEF was planning to commit funding probably to the tune of around $800 million to the project, which is among several being developed in Mozambique’s north after one of the biggest gas finds in a decade off its coast.
https://af.reuters.com/article/africaTech/idAFKBN23Y0AT-OZABS

With the US Presidential election looming, how can a forum on climate science ignore the prospect of 4 more years of Trump?
With the UK due to host the COP meeting next year, scientists will be dragged kicking & screaming into the political arena whether they like it or not.

One thing that could be done is much more fencing off of the Political threads. e.g. can the forum software stop all political threads , including new ones, appearing in "unread posts"?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

blumenkraft

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #794 on: June 28, 2020, 08:34:48 AM »
I think that might help bring back some people who care about the science, but don’t want to get bogged down in, or associated with, the political discussions.

Honestly, Rod, i don't know if this is a thing in the first place, but for the sake of the argument, if someone thinks like that, he would refrain from this forum even if the political opinions expressed would be a rare occurrence. You can't eliminate all political content since it's so intertwined with the science and climate action needed. Ergo, even if there wasn't much political content, you wouldn't get those users to post.
 
Quote
I will probably get a lot of hate for this suggestion

Nah, no hate, only opposition. We still love you. :)

Quote
political radicals

The real radicals are the ones in the White House. Here people are mostly reasonable.
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

oren

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #795 on: June 28, 2020, 08:45:24 AM »
The trouble is pure political debates rarely lead to agreement and mostly serve to alienate people, who then carry over the resulting bitter feelings to the rest of the forum. Often this leads to enmity and people leaving. It should have been a separate forum with different user names.
The first such thread was Russiagate, which served absolutely no good and had zero correlation with forum scope, but created two very vocal groups who "hated" each other (and TBH lost a lot of respect from other posters in the process).
The climate-related issues mostly have a consensus on this forum (for good reason). The only divisive issue is the Green BAU approach, but that has to be debated within the forum.
This might be water under the bridge at this point.

HapHazard

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #796 on: June 28, 2020, 09:53:02 AM »
Science is not political.

Science can be used as political fodder.

There's a big difference.

Rod

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #797 on: June 29, 2020, 12:11:00 AM »
I knew when I made this suggestion, a lot of people would get pissed off and be mad at me.

But, as an environmental attorney, I also know that no scientist in their right mind would ever post on a forum that is political like this one.  It would forever tarnish their reputation for impartiality. 

My suggestion, which many understandably do not like, is get rid of the political BS so that scientists can feel comfortable posting here again.

The non-scientists are mad about having their free speech limited.  UNDERSTOOD! But it might be worth it if we can bring these forums back to the scientific level that was present here a few years ago.  Lately, the science is garbage. I still like scrolling through the comments, but most of it is nonsense. 

I totally understand that people are mad about this suggestion.  But think about how great it would be if some of the old time scientists could start posting again.

They can’t risk their reputation being associated with a radical forum.

I’m simply asking if it is possible to put the radical discussions on a different forum and keep this one focused on the science. 

I understand the people who are opposed.  It is just my personal suggestion that I think might be a good idea. If everyone else disagrees, I’m good with that too. 

greylib

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #798 on: June 29, 2020, 12:20:24 AM »
But, as an environmental attorney, I also know that no scientist in their right mind would ever post on a forum that is political like this one.  It would forever tarnish their reputation for impartiality.
I'm a scientist. And as far as I know, in my right mind. My reputation can't be tarnished by posting here, because I'm posting under an alias, as most forum members do.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "impartiality". Most of the scientists I've known in my career are very partial - towards evidence and truth. The BBC inviting Nigel Lawson  to argue against climate change:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/10/bbc-climate-change-deniers
That sort of impartiality?
Step by step, moment by moment
We live through another day.

Rod

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Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #799 on: June 29, 2020, 12:31:48 AM »
Most likely, you will never be involved in a big litigation case. But if you are, they will find out your alias, and make you look bad for using one.