Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Forum Decorum  (Read 142825 times)

blumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1050 on: August 07, 2020, 04:13:39 PM »
I made the mistake of setting it up in a way that made Gerontocrat the beneficiary of the funds. Little did i know GoFundMe doesn't allow the Euro payments to be withdrawn as Pounds in the Britains. Now it's Schroedinger's money. I can't get it nor can Gero. I hope the support there gets it sorted out.

vox_mundi

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4107
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2399
  • Likes Given: 318
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1051 on: August 07, 2020, 05:56:40 PM »
If you haven't tried it already, you may also be able to salvage the hard drive from the laptop. Pop it out, change the setting from boot disk to slave, and test it as an external drive. The computer shop can test this for you.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

HapHazard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 2689
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1052 on: August 07, 2020, 06:53:49 PM »
Vox is correct. The data on the drive may be perfectly recoverable.

And a reminder to everyone: always back up your computer/data! Personally, I do it monthly, and it's easy as pie.

igs

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1053 on: August 07, 2020, 08:48:59 PM »
Vox is correct. The data on the drive may be perfectly recoverable.

And a reminder to everyone: always back up your computer/data! Personally, I do it monthly, and it's easy as pie.

Absolutely, who doesn't do backups, sooner or later get's into trouble.
There is a saying that goes like who is not preparing is preparing for desaster.

I'm writing this because i saw too many businesses and good people get to the verge of collapse due to such lack of backups.

I do 3 hourly backups 3 permanent heavily encrypted syncs to cloud services and 9 weekly backups of which 2 are OFF-SITE and that's the most important one in case on get's hacked or the house burns down or one is living near the port of Beirut for example. (hope that's not indelicate because surprises of that kind are indeed good examples. )

Would I lose my data I could head directly to an almshouse or retirement home.

 :)

blumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1054 on: August 07, 2020, 09:25:14 PM »
One backup is no backup.  ::) :P


Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3639
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 625
  • Likes Given: 315
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1055 on: August 07, 2020, 10:17:48 PM »
What is a cheap, easy way to back up my Mac?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

glennbuck

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 337
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1056 on: August 07, 2020, 10:30:05 PM »
A British man says he accidentally threw away over $80 million worth of bitcoin.

James Howells, an IT worker from Newport, claims to have unintentionally dumped 7,500 bitcoin in mid-2013.

He is now planning to find them, but isn’t sure how, as he believes the hard drive he saved them to is currently buried in a landfill site.

The value of the cryptocurrency was around $130 at the time Howells claims to have thrown the hard drive away. It is currently worth $11,350 (£8,435).

“In mid-2013 during a clear-out, the hard drive – then worth a few hundred thousand pounds – was mistakenly thrown out and put into a general waste bin at my local landfill site, after which it was buried on site.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bitcoin-value-james-howells-newport-landfill-hard-drive-campbell-simpson-laszlo-hanyecz-a8091371.html

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5685
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 788
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1057 on: August 07, 2020, 10:31:18 PM »
Re: mac backup

time machine on two external drives, rotate one out of the house weekly

sidd

HapHazard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 2689
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1058 on: August 07, 2020, 10:51:19 PM »
I use Karen's Replicator for backing up data / data-only drives. Macrium Reflect (free version) for making a whole disk image of my OS (Operating System) drive. Quite easy, and the only thing you need money for is [an] external drive[ s].

This is a very easy way for even total n00bs to keep their computer fully backed up. Any questions, just ask. (feel free to PM me, if you want, gero.)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 11:36:19 PM by HapHazard »

greylib

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 108
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 70
  • Likes Given: 118
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1059 on: August 07, 2020, 11:34:24 PM »
Backups are useful in other ways, as well. Twenty years ago a friend of mine was raided by Customs & Excise, who decided he wasn't paying enough VAT. (He was, but his was a cash-only business, and the VAT men believed that anyone who could avoid the tax, would.)

They took away all his paperwork and all his computers, returning them after three months. He had off-site backups of everything, so he bought new computers and re-installed. If he hadn't been able to do that, he'd have been out of business.
Step by step, moment by moment
We live through another day.

HapHazard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 2689
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1060 on: August 07, 2020, 11:39:33 PM »
I ship my data (usually on an encrypted USB) separately to my destination, when traveling across borders on business. Nothing for security to nose into at the airport, that way. So, I carry a laptop with nothing on it except a bare OS, and the USB will contain the disk image which I can restore onto the laptop in a matter of minutes.

igs

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1061 on: August 07, 2020, 11:52:41 PM »
Re: mac backup

time machine on two external drives, rotate one out of the house weekly

sidd


Exactly and in addition i recommend bootable backups with this nice piece of software:




Pmt111500

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1062 on: August 08, 2020, 06:44:48 AM »
Oh yeah, good reminder!!!

I had to check my last backups. Made them 3 years ago and some of the archived were from 6 years ago. New backup done. Mind you the computer has been on rather little use lately, but realised there were abt. 6 things in there from the past 3 years I absolutely do not want to lose.

Neverever want to relive the horror when much of my pre-2000 stuff were lost in a crash.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 06:50:35 AM by Pmt111500 »

gerontocrat

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9328
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3727
  • Likes Given: 28
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1063 on: August 08, 2020, 11:11:34 AM »
If you haven't tried it already, you may also be able to salvage the hard drive from the laptop. Pop it out, change the setting from boot disk to slave, and test it as an external drive. The computer shop can test this for you.
Rescue hard disc ?Yep - already planned
 Backup of data and program files? Yep, done on a frequent basis.

External drive ? On shopping list.
Also wireless external key board and if money allows a big external screen BUT

I will NOT spend it all. That would be sheer greed.

Should be at least euro 1,000 left over. Where would such a sum be the most useful?
To help keep ASIF'S finances afloat?
An Arctic expedition?
MSF?
Something to think about in the next few weeks?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

bluice

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1064 on: August 08, 2020, 11:58:09 AM »
Just an idea for the future: could ASIF fund or partially fund a research/data project for the Arctic? There is surely sufficient expertise in the community to find a suitable project and partner.

Based on Gero’s laptop there’s also willingness to contribute so we could probably raise some money as well.

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
  • Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 760
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1065 on: August 08, 2020, 12:18:00 PM »
If you haven't tried it already, you may also be able to salvage the hard drive from the laptop. Pop it out, change the setting from boot disk to slave, and test it as an external drive. The computer shop can test this for you.
Rescue hard disc ?Yep - already planned
 Backup of data and program files? Yep, done on a frequent basis.

External drive ? On shopping list.
Also wireless external key board and if money allows a big external screen BUT

I will NOT spend it all. That would be sheer greed.

Should be at least euro 1,000 left over. Where would such a sum be the most useful?
To help keep ASIF'S finances afloat?
An Arctic expedition?
MSF?
Something to think about in the next few weeks?
Does it really need to be a laptop? I'm really happy with the Dell I just bought. Super fast, and it's all in. My Dell laptop never broke. It was just getting old and slow. So Dell is very good quality for the price.

After the Dell I bought a Samsung laptop, and that only lasted a few years. So I'm Dell all the way now. Unless you're an Apple man...

Connected to my 40" TV, it's absolutely perfect...

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/inspiron-27-7000-all-in-one-desktop/spd/inspiron-27-7790-aio

Inspiron 27 7000 All-in-One Desktop

Smart design features of this 27 inch all in one desktop including the latest 10th Gen Intel® Core™ processors, an InfinityEdge display, space efficient stand, Dell Cinema and a pop up webcam. Available in black or silver

Product availability and color selection varies by country
Starting at $999.99
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.
-The Dalai Lama

greylib

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 108
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 70
  • Likes Given: 118
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1066 on: August 08, 2020, 12:37:16 PM »
I've been coming here for years for the science and the debate without having the expertise to be able to say very much. I've found ASIF to be a hugely valuable resource for educating myself. Many of the posts give links for further information; those links then lead on to other links. It's been a learning experience like nothing I've encountered before in my life.

The Saga of Gerontocrat's Dog has pretty well proved that I'm not alone. We've long felt an obligation to give something back: at last an opportunity came our way, so we took it.

Gero sounds a little embarrassed by it all, as if he's reluctant to take "charity". He shouldn't be. What he (and his dog) have shown is that there are a lot of us who NEED to do something to help, but couldn't see a way until his brush with serendipity.

Just an idea for the future: could ASIF fund or partially fund a research/data project for the Arctic? There is surely sufficient expertise in the community to find a suitable project and partner.

Based on Gero’s laptop there’s also willingness to contribute so we could probably raise some money as well.

I like the idea of helping to fund research. A post on here in 2013 led to my first contribution - the Dark Snow project:
https://www.darksnow.org/
Quote
The Dark Snow Project gathers ‘hard numbers’ from the Arctic to quantify the distant snow/ice melting impact of industrial and wildfire black carbon soot; mineral dust; and microbes, each melt factor having some human driven enhancement.
A windsled across the Greenland Ice Sheet - wow! Science can be fun after all :)

There are many others out there, I'm sure. And the people on here are the ones to show us where they are.
Step by step, moment by moment
We live through another day.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2378
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 295
  • Likes Given: 20161
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1067 on: August 08, 2020, 02:55:08 PM »
gerontocrat, I suggest that you could give half of what's left to the owners and maintainers of this site, and keep the rest. A good monitor is important.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

igs

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1068 on: August 08, 2020, 06:40:38 PM »
Just an idea for the future: could ASIF fund or partially fund a research/data project for the Arctic? There is surely sufficient expertise in the community to find a suitable project and partner.

Based on Gero’s laptop there’s also willingness to contribute so we could probably raise some money as well.

We need reliable multi season buoys with a camera for one thing that i would gladly contribute to.

Also reliable gridded ice-thickness measurement would be nice. Those two things would make a proper assessment of conditions way easier for anyone.

With contributing I don't assume we can get even close to cover a significant part of the costs but then why not partner with a major player and start a global crowdfund for the purpose.


I'm sure we would be overwhelmed with how much funding would flow into such a project and I'm regularly disappointed that those who have the means and know about the importance do not establish a interconnected grid of such buoys (anymore?)

gerontocrat

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 9328
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 3727
  • Likes Given: 28
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1069 on: August 08, 2020, 06:56:23 PM »
Window shopping is great fun. All the new toys!  Sort of know what to get. Still waiting for gofundme to give us the escape route.

Oh to be able to type on a real keyboard instead of a mobile phone.
Oh to be able to open up my spreadsheets.


"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

HapHazard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 2689
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1070 on: August 08, 2020, 07:16:34 PM »
To be completely honest gero, I have no issue with you using a bit of those funds to buy yourself a nice bottle of scotch, as well. Small reward for all the great work you do here.

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
  • Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 760
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1071 on: August 10, 2020, 07:09:44 PM »
So because a group of people on this forum believe that I am ruining this forum, it's better to stop posting and so ruin this forum until I go away?

And then people wonder why this world is falling apart...  ???

End racism is bullshit!
End intolerance would be a much better slogan to change the world...

Intolerance
noun
Unwillingness to accept views, beliefs, or behaviour that differ from one's own.

Intolerance
Sk Abdul Aziz Dec 2015

It's an evil which has been existing for a long time in our society.
It's just that now it's effect is full scale.

This hatred is consuming the world, bit by bit.
When will people realize that this is not what we humans do...hating and killing...it is not us.

Each and every day we read, witness, hear and perhaps at some point have also experienced intolerance.

When a newborn smiles for the first time, they don't care what the race, religion, gender or political opinions are of the faces that smile back at them. They smile because human beings are not born with hatred, division or intolerance in their heart...

Instead we learn intolerance from those around us...

We learn it as we grow up.
We learn it from our parents.
We learn it from the media which brands people as extremists and terrorists.

A change is needed and we need to bring about the change.
A change via our words, thoughts and actions.

Let us all pledge that we will not be a silent spectator to instances of intolerance and neither will we ourselves be involved in this evil in any way whatsoever.

We will raise our voice and fight against it!
If we don't start this now...then i'm afraid it will be too late...

The world is slowly but surely falling into an abyss of hatred.

We must act soon!
We are all equal...and earth is the only home we have...
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.
-The Dalai Lama

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6298
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2315
  • Likes Given: 1954
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1072 on: August 10, 2020, 07:17:09 PM »
Quote
So because a group of people on this forum believe that I am ruining this forum, it's better to stop posting and so ruin this forum until I go away?
Where do you get these weird notions FG?
Remember paranoia can be the result of too much weed.

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
  • Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 760
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1073 on: August 10, 2020, 07:29:15 PM »
Quote
So because a group of people on this forum believe that I am ruining this forum, it's better to stop posting and so ruin this forum until I go away?
Where do you get these weird notions FG?
Remember paranoia can be the result of too much weed.
Last year in August, postings were up by 100% compared to this year.
This is the crazy season!!!
And nobody is posting on the melting thread?

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time!

If you want to know what's going on, talk to those who stopped posting in the melting thread at the same day that I asked people to like my posts from time to time and got them.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON!
It's been going on for as long as I'm here...

Thank God (or Neven) that we have you for the cryosphere!  :)

Love you dude!
But don't be ignorant!  ;)
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.
-The Dalai Lama

Bruce Steele

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1857
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 489
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1074 on: August 10, 2020, 08:33:56 PM »
Freegrass, I have said before that I appreciate your input and it is good to have fresh perspective on the workings of the forum. There are posters now silent I wish were still here also but it is really hard to figure out what motivated their departure.
 Watching the ice or watching acidification or global warming for over a decade can start to wear on anyone’s stamina for abuse. People wear down psychologically when no sign of improvement ever seems to come along.
 There were people like Chris Reynolds or JimD that left long before you started posting, we still have some of the original posters from the Arctic Sea Ice Blog however and I think we should be thankful for those with the patience to stick it out.
 If you think someone is giving you a hard time PM me . I am hardly an enforcer and I would probably screw up any attempt at intervention but I can’t figure out who the group is you feel wants you gone.
 I am kinda hardened by many years in fisheries politics. No body likes abuse but it is part of the landscape sometimes. Take the high road when you can and time will heal most wounds.
 Don’t split please. 

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
  • Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 760
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1075 on: August 10, 2020, 08:48:03 PM »
I'm not going anywhere. I'm here to stay! I love this forum! But just look back on the melting thread, and you'll see the moment when they all took off...

I'm gonna stop this now. I said what I had to say. It's up to the good moderators and Neven now to figure out why the postings in August 2020 have dropped by 50% compared to last year...

I know what I know. Nobody is able to step into my shoes. But what's going on here is despicable!

Nuff said...
Happy New Year!
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.
-The Dalai Lama

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6298
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2315
  • Likes Given: 1954
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1076 on: August 10, 2020, 09:36:38 PM »
FG take a breather and relax. This is certainly paranoia. You are a valued contributor BTW.

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
  • Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 760
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1077 on: August 10, 2020, 09:53:29 PM »
FG take a breather and relax. This is certainly paranoia. You are a valued contributor BTW.
Already dropped... All I'm saying is that there are some people (moderators) on this forum that are willing to destroy it because of an ego trip...

I'm actually happy they're gone. Now I don't need to read their BS on this forum anymore...  ;D

Thank you for the kind words! You're a good man!  :)
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.
-The Dalai Lama

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7756
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1133
  • Likes Given: 521
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1078 on: August 10, 2020, 10:00:09 PM »
I'm gonna stop this now. I said what I had to say. It's up to the good moderators and Neven now to figure out why the postings in August 2020 have dropped by 50% compared to last year...

Because the weather switched and things got boring, after weeks of spectacular drops. There's a very clear correlation between sea ice melt and comment frequency on the melting thread. As soon as the weather forecast shows something exciting, comments will go up again.

I'm happy that I can finally keep up a bit!
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
  • Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 760
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1079 on: August 10, 2020, 10:09:16 PM »
I'm gonna stop this now. I said what I had to say. It's up to the good moderators and Neven now to figure out why the postings in August 2020 have dropped by 50% compared to last year...

Because the weather switched and things got boring, after weeks of spectacular drops. There's a very clear correlation between sea ice melt and comment frequency on the melting thread. As soon as the weather forecast shows something exciting, comments will go up again.

I'm happy that I can finally keep up a bit!
I don't believe it, but you're the boss! So I humbly bow my head and move on...  :-X
Hope you're right!
Quality over quantity right?  ;)
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.
-The Dalai Lama

HapHazard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 2689
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1080 on: August 10, 2020, 11:10:54 PM »
What just happened here?

Freegrass

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1613
  • Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 760
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1081 on: August 10, 2020, 11:38:57 PM »
What just happened here?
We just celebrated New Year.


<removed GIF. Serves no purpose, only steals bandwidth - BK>


« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 11:11:40 AM by blumenkraft »
If every 8 year old in the world is taught meditation, we will eliminate violence from the world within one generation.
-The Dalai Lama

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6298
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2315
  • Likes Given: 1954
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1082 on: August 12, 2020, 11:19:48 AM »
Some regular user deleted their account, does anyone know whom?
I am saddened by every user that decides to leave, especially in this irrevocable way.

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2378
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 295
  • Likes Given: 20161
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1083 on: August 12, 2020, 11:37:12 AM »
oren, I noticed that bluice is gone. I had earlier reacted to his post in the "lessons from COVID19" thread. Then I also noted that I've got a 'like' fewer. I'm guessing that for some reason he was completely fed up with things already (?) and perhaps my post was the trigger.
That's sad because I liked many of his posts and found him a valuable contributor.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6298
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2315
  • Likes Given: 1954
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1084 on: August 12, 2020, 12:00:05 PM »
Yeah, it's bluice unfortunately, another fine casualty of the forum's coronavirus crisis.
I am sorry to have to write this, but anyone who feels they cannot bear to read Neven's Covid-related posts anymore - I implore you to put our esteemed admin on ignore rather than quit the forum completely. The forum is much more than its creator and long-time leader, and the environmental and long-term subjects discussed are not going away anytime soon unfortunately.
I have stated my great respect for Neven, who has written so much about Arctic Sea Ice and related subjects, and who has created an environment of scientific debate that is rarely matched on the Internet, devoid of deniers and guided well over the years. I do think he has his head screwed the wrong way around regarding Covid, and am certainly saddened by this, but he has his reasons and reasonings and that is that for now.

If you feel the urge to go to your profile for a certain final action, do this instead. Click on profile - buddies/ignore list - edit ignore list - add member. And survive to post another day.

blumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1085 on: August 12, 2020, 03:07:29 PM »
OMG, no! :'(

I'm very sorry he is gone.

I too have the feeling it's not your fault, Nanning.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7756
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1133
  • Likes Given: 521
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1086 on: August 12, 2020, 03:43:44 PM »
Of course it's not nanning's fault. It was my reaction to bluice's 'pile of horse shit'.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

KiwiGriff

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 836
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 418
  • Likes Given: 148
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1087 on: August 12, 2020, 03:53:28 PM »
 :(
For me and many others on this forum getting Covid would be like getting a seat in a game of Russian roulette. Seeing someone using illogical arguments against  actions to limit this risk is distressing when it is you staring down a barrel . Because it is Neven I have  stayed away from the thread so I don't feel the need to react as I normally would reading such gibbering.

We are all human and have our foibles.

Pertinent
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2020/08/how-to-spot-alternative-scientists/
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 04:07:00 PM by KiwiGriff »
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
Robert Heinlein.

HapHazard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 2689
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1088 on: August 12, 2020, 05:32:29 PM »
devoid of deniers

I respectfully disagree. The ones here are just smarter about it, to avoid being banned.

Bruce Steele

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1857
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 489
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1089 on: August 12, 2020, 05:43:14 PM »
Maybe Tom and I are the only ASIF members who read the Tverbergs “ finite world “ blog on a regular basis. This month she opines that what we are doing re Covid isn’t working and maybe we need a new game plan for dealing with it without pancaking the rest of the economy. Ugo Bardi at “cassandras legacy” is another contrarian voice that rings familiar to Nevens current contrarian viewpoint.
 So people who have been contrarian voices are ringing alarms. I read through comment sections from groups of people politically quite different than those collected here on the forum. I am trying to figure out why people think like they do , or react so differently to what is obviously a shared threat. I have very good friends who are staunch conservatives and they are not reacting the same as my more liberal friends. It is all very baffling. It doesn’t make me angry however and if I can’t figure out why a good friend I have known for a lifetime is acting like a bunch of Mask protestors in Berlin I sure have no idea what inspires the Berliners.
 When times get very rough in our little house my wife likes to say “ the gods of Mt.Olympus are laughing at us “
 
 So many small changes are happening that are positive. So many people planted gardens and new fruit trees this year, so many people decided to get chickens, milage driven going down, people spending lots of time outside, and so maybe only an upside down world becomes rational . Sorry about all the service economy jobs going poof but not really. Well sorry it’s so painful but servicing our excess is hell on the environment.
Signed
Not a smarter denier

igs

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1090 on: August 12, 2020, 06:55:59 PM »
devoid of deniers

I respectfully disagree. The ones here are just smarter about it, to avoid being banned.

Their are clearly at least 2 and the weatherdude88 is an obvious one, using every opportunity to speak up agains the "currently" obvious. I ratther don't wanna sea what happens upon a "lucky punch" for his case. To that we're currently very close due to the 15% threshold that keeps a lot of almost ice-free/ice-poor area in the extent positive.

Since the matter is easy to solve which apparently many have done already, it's not worth to take this much further from my part. I conclude widelyspread action by the lack of response to his posts recently while a months ago each one of them triggered an unpleasant discussion.

Either way I want to say that the quality of the forum has dramatically increased recently thanks to more frequent and consequent moderation which is not so easy but nobody ever said that good things are easy ;)

That said, we have to tolerant towards the mods upon the few slips because it's a hard job and I as the old saying goes, nobody is perfect, those who think they are the least.

bbr2315

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 437
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 137
  • Likes Given: 64
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1091 on: August 12, 2020, 09:38:09 PM »
devoid of deniers

I respectfully disagree. The ones here are just smarter about it, to avoid being banned.

Their are clearly at least 2 and the weatherdude88 is an obvious one, using every opportunity to speak up agains the "currently" obvious. I ratther don't wanna sea what happens upon a "lucky punch" for his case. To that we're currently very close due to the 15% threshold that keeps a lot of almost ice-free/ice-poor area in the extent positive.

Since the matter is easy to solve which apparently many have done already, it's not worth to take this much further from my part. I conclude widelyspread action by the lack of response to his posts recently while a months ago each one of them triggered an unpleasant discussion.

Either way I want to say that the quality of the forum has dramatically increased recently thanks to more frequent and consequent moderation which is not so easy but nobody ever said that good things are easy ;)

That said, we have to tolerant towards the mods upon the few slips because it's a hard job and I as the old saying goes, nobody is perfect, those who think they are the least.

The matter re: Weatherdude has not been solved and I have stopped participating in the melt threads for this reason. Oren has allowed a culture of denialism to take root here, it started with the melt thread and now it is in the COVID thread too re: everyone calling Neven a fascist idiot and saying the world is ending.

I would assert this anti-logical groupthink mentality now becoming increasingly prominent across most of the West (and common among many posters on here) is very alarming. One asks how the Nazis came to power, and these nincompoops are the same ones who call Neven a fascist for thinking that things are going back to normal -- which they should, and which they are.

There is a large component of the global population, and this forum, that has now broken from the reality shared by Neven and myself and, I presume, a few others here. While some of you may filter back, it seems many may be lost forever -- oh well, I really don't care, I just want weatherdude out of the melt thread. lol.

Michael Hauber

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 900
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 77
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1092 on: August 13, 2020, 03:24:13 AM »
devoid of deniers

I respectfully disagree. The ones here are just smarter about it, to avoid being banned.

Their are clearly at least 2 and the weatherdude88 is an obvious one, using every opportunity to speak up agains the "currently" obvious. I ratther don't wanna sea what happens upon a "lucky punch" for his case. To that we're currently very close due to the 15% threshold that keeps a lot of almost ice-free/ice-poor area in the extent positive.

Since the matter is easy to solve which apparently many have done already, it's not worth to take this much further from my part. I conclude widelyspread action by the lack of response to his posts recently while a months ago each one of them triggered an unpleasant discussion.

Either way I want to say that the quality of the forum has dramatically increased recently thanks to more frequent and consequent moderation which is not so easy but nobody ever said that good things are easy ;)

That said, we have to tolerant towards the mods upon the few slips because it's a hard job and I as the old saying goes, nobody is perfect, those who think they are the least.

So weatherdude is a denier because his views are too 'cold' for the consensus?

He predicted back in July 'I would be surprised if NSIDC extent finishes in top 4'.  I personally thought this was aggressive, and my assessment at the time was 2nd most likely with 3rd or lower possible, and 1st highly unlikely.  Some other posters were confident we would finish 1st, some by a massive margin.

NSIDC extent is currently 5th.  Its not the end of the season of course.

There was some lament of posters such as Chris Reynolds departing.  I remember Chris Reynolds well from the long slow decline thread, which certainly made me think.  I suspect such views in the current climate would be attacked as nonsense and Chris accused of being a denier.

If this forum is to have any claim to scientific credibility, opposing views need to be valued.  If they continue to be attacked as being those of deniers, or the many responses I've had about compactness being nonsense, then this forum will not be a forum about science, but an echo chamber driven by the entertainment value of caps lock laden forecasts of blow torches and endlessly imminent ice melt catastrophes that never quite arrive.
Climate change:  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, expect the middle.

HapHazard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 2689
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1093 on: August 13, 2020, 03:41:49 AM »
There's opposing views, then there's cherry picking of data to sow discord. It's an art form in & of itself.

I've had weatherdude on my blocklist for quite some time now. Nothing of value is lost.

Rod

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1094 on: August 13, 2020, 04:35:12 AM »
Michael Hauber, weatherdude and Walrus like to cherry pick facts and try to get people to argue with each other. 

Oren called out MH for it a few weeks ago, but then let it go.

Personally, I don’t think deniers should be allowed to post on this forum.  It is easy for them to say “oh, but I had a different interpretation of the weather set up.”

They can post that “different” opinion on denier websites like WUWT if it is even around anymore.

Unfortunately, a few years ago these forums got overrun with the political threads and the science has suffered ever since.

I think the mods are doing the best they can. However, they are much more lenient with BS than any mods I have ever dealt with on other forums I have participated in the past.

I see nothing wrong with banning obvious trolls. 

The majority of the people on the sea ice forums want to talk in good faith. It chills discussions when trolls come in and cherry pick data to try to cause arguments.

HapHazard

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 367
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 144
  • Likes Given: 2689
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1095 on: August 13, 2020, 04:46:29 AM »
Oren called out MH for it a few weeks ago, but then let it go.

IIRC Neven did the same with wd earlier this year as well

they test the boundaries

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6298
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2315
  • Likes Given: 1954
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1096 on: August 13, 2020, 05:25:35 AM »
Just to clarify:
Walrus has been put on moderation for various reasons.
Weatherdude is under a watchful eye for cherry-picking data and is being edited often for goading.
Michael Hauber has his own opinions, nothing wrong with that.

In general it is okay to think the ice will not melt or will do so only slowly, as it is okay to think the ice will crash, as long as posts are made in good faith and with a scientific approach. It is okay to be wrong as well - even if the season ends in number 1 or in number 10 it doesn't mean someone was a troll or denier - just wrong.

Where posters come up with ideas or claims that appear to be under strong debate, they are usually advised to discuss it in separate threads. this doesn't mean they have been caught out as red handed trolls, it just means that in depth discussions cannot be held on high rating threads.
And yes, it is okay to debunk such claims, when the science is on your side.

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3637
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 633
  • Likes Given: 407
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1097 on: August 13, 2020, 05:40:52 AM »
Quote
just wrong.
To be fair: "or right".
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Michael Hauber

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 900
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 77
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1098 on: August 13, 2020, 05:55:51 AM »
Michael Hauber has his own opinions, nothing wrong with that.

I do get a strong feeling I am not welcome on this forum and am considering whether I should post again next season.  In the past I have been called a denier and troll to my face.  I don't think that has happened this season, but plenty of non-specific posts about deniers/trolls/nonsense that feel like I am at least on the edge of what is intended.  In particular posts about 'compaction nonsense' where I am pretty sure I was the most vocal proponent of this idea, although some other posters have supported me. 

If the ice does crash in coming weeks and go number 1 by a large amount I will feel really bad and wouldn't be sure if I would have the guts to show my face here again.  At the same time I would look through the available data/images etc to see if I can figure out where my internal model of how the ice should work went wrong and see if I can improve it.

Do the posters predicting a big crash of the ice ever get such a strong feeling of being unwelcome?  How bad will they feel if the ice does what I am expecting?  How much will they learn?  There have been other years where I had predicted no record for various reasons, and felt attacked and ridiculed for it.  Am I over reacting to the various comments about deniers/trolls/nonsense etc?
Climate change:  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, expect the middle.

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6298
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2315
  • Likes Given: 1954
Re: Forum Decorum
« Reply #1099 on: August 13, 2020, 06:02:59 AM »
Michael - it's true that being on the "slow" side of prediction makes one less popular, but do please stay. Science is not a popularity contest.