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vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #450 on: March 24, 2019, 01:38:12 AM »
More Than One Reality Exists Simultaneously (in Quantum Physics)   
https://amp.livescience.com/65029-dueling-reality-photons.html

Can two versions of reality exist at the same time? Physicists say they can — at the quantum level, that is

Researchers recently conducted experiments to answer a decades-old theoretical physics question about dueling realities. This tricky thought experiment proposed that two individuals observing the same photon could arrive at different conclusions about that photon's state — and yet both of their observations would be correct.

For the first time, scientists have replicated conditions described in the thought experiment. Their results, published Feb. 13 in the preprint journal arXiv, confirmed that even when observers described different states in the same photon, the two conflicting realities could both be true.

... if measurements themselves aren't absolutes — as these new findings suggest — that challenges the very meaning of quantum mechanics.

"It seems that, in contrast to classical physics, measurement results cannot be considered absolute truth but must be understood relative to the observer who performed the measurement," Ringbauer said.

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New Controversial Theory: Past, Present, Future Exist Simultaneously 
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/a-controversial-theory-claims-present-past-and-future-exist-at-the-same-time

Our experience of time may be blinding us to its true nature, say scientists. 

- Time may not be passing at all, says the Block Universe Theory.
- Time travel may be possible.
- Your perception of time is likely relative to you and limited.




The block universe theory says that our universe may be looked at as a giant four-dimensional block of spacetime, containing all the things that ever happen, explained Dr. Kristie Miller, the joint director for the Centre for Time at the University of Sydney.

In the block universe, there is no "now" or present. All moments that exist are just relative to each other within the three spacial dimensions and one time dimension. Your sense of the present is just reflecting where in the block universe you are at that instance. The "past" is just a slice of the universe at an earlier location while the "future" is at a later location.


What is a Block Time
https://plus.maths.org/content/what-block-time

------------------------

Eight-Space Phisics, ESP, and the CIA
https://www.inverse.com/article/53925-russell-targ-physics-of-remote-viewing-esp

... “I have no doubt that ESP is a non-local ability independent of space and time,” he says. “What that means is that we misapprehend the nature of the spacetime we’re living in.” 

-----------------------

Quantum Machine Appears to Defy Universe’s Push for Disorder     
https://www.quantamagazine.org/quantum-scarring-appears-to-defy-universes-push-for-disorder-20190320/

One of the first quantum simulators has produced a puzzling phenomenon: a row of atoms that repeatedly pops back into place. Physicists have been racing to explain what might be going on..

... Physicists have dubbed this bizarre behavior “quantum many-body scarring.” As if scarred, the atoms seem to bear an imprint of the past that draws them back to their original configuration over and over again.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 02:28:24 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #451 on: April 04, 2019, 06:13:22 PM »
Researchers Develop Way to Control Speed of Light, Send it Backward
https://phys.org/news/2019-04-researchers-develop-way-to-control.html



University of Central Florida researchers have developed a way to control the speed of light. Not only can they speed up a pulse of light and slow it down, they can also make it travel backward.

The results were published recently in the journal Nature Communications.

Previous attempts at controlling the speed of light have included passing light through various materials to adjust its speed. The new technique, however, allows the speed to be adjusted for the first time in the open, without using any pass-through material to speed it up or slow it down.

"This is the first clear demonstration of controlling the speed of a pulse light in free space," said study co-author Ayman Abouraddy, a professor in UCF's College of Optics and Photonics. "And it opens up doors for many applications, an optical buffer being just one of them, but most importantly it's done in a simple way, that's repeatable and reliable."

Abouraddy and study co-author Esat Kondakci demonstrated they could speed a pulse of light up to 30 times the speed of light, slow it down to half the speed of light, and also make the pulse travel backward.

The researchers were able to develop the technique by using a special device known as a spatial light modulator to mix the space and time properties of light, thereby allowing them to control the velocity of the pulse of light. The mixing of the two properties was key to the technique's success.
...

Open Source: H. Esat Kondakci, Ayman F. Abouraddy, Optical space-time wave packets having arbitrary group velocities in free space, Nature Communications volume 10, Article number: 929 (2019)

Abstract:
Controlling the group velocity of an optical pulse typically requires traversing a material or structure whose dispersion is judiciously crafted. Alternatively, the group velocity can be modified in free space by spatially structuring the beam profile, but the realizable deviation from the speed of light in vacuum is small. Here we demonstrate precise and versatile control over the group velocity of a propagation-invariant optical wave packet in free space through sculpting its spatio-temporal spectrum. By jointly modulating the spatial and temporal degrees of freedom, arbitrary group velocities are unambiguously observed in free space above or below the speed of light in vacuum, whether in the forward direction propagating away from the source or even traveling backwards towards it.

------------------------------


Warp 9: Make it so!

“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #452 on: April 12, 2019, 07:10:59 PM »
Future 'Human Brain/Cloud Interface' Will Give People Instant Access to Vast Knowledge via Thought Alone
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-04-future-human-braincloud-interface-people.html

Writing in Frontiers in Neuroscience, an international collaboration led by researchers at UC Berkeley and the US Institute for Molecular Manufacturing predicts that exponential progress in nanotechnology, nanomedicine, AI, and computation will lead this century to the development of a "Human Brain/Cloud Interface" (B/CI), that connects brain cells to vast cloud-computing networks in real time.

This cortex in the cloud would allow "Matrix"-style downloading of information to the brain, the group claims.


I Know Kung Fu! ... Show Me.

"A human B/CI system mediated by neuralnanorobotics could empower individuals with instantaneous access to all cumulative human knowledge available in the cloud, while significantly improving human learning capacities and intelligence," says lead author Dr. Nuno Martins.

B/CI technology might also allow us to create a future "global superbrain" that would connect networks of individual human brains and AIs to enable collective thought.

... an experimental human 'BrainNet' system has already been tested, enabling thought-driven information exchange via the cloud between individual brains,"

Open Access: Nuno R. B. Martins et al. Human Brain/Cloud Interface, Frontiers in Neuroscience (2019)

-------------------------------

DARPA is actively pursuing this.

U.S. to Fund Advanced Brain-Computer Interfaces
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608219/us-to-fund-advanced-brain-computer-interfaces/?set=608245

----------------------------

It’s Now Possible To Telepathically Communicate with a Drone Swarm
https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2018/09/its-now-possible-telepathically-communicate-drone-swarm/151068/

-----------------------------

Military Pilots Can Control Three Jets At Once via A Neural Implant
https://futurism.com/the-byte/jets-pilots-mind-control-darpa

----------------------------

DARPA Wants Brain Interfaces for Able-Bodied Warfighters
https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-human-os/biomedical/bionics/darpa-wants-brain-interfaces-for-able-bodied-warfighters

--------------------------------

Researchers affiliated with Elon Musk's brain-computer interface company, Neuralink, publish paper on inserting chips into brains
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-linked-scientists-develop-technique-for-putting-probes-in-brains-2019-4

---------------------------------

Team Develops Thermoelectric Device That Generates Electricity Using Human Body Heat
https://phys.org/news/2019-03-team-thermoelectric-device-electricity-human.html


Morpheus: "The Matrix is a computer-generated dream world, built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this."
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #453 on: May 06, 2019, 01:25:12 AM »
'The Matrix' hit theaters 20 years ago. Many scientists and philosophers still think we're living in a simulation.
https://amp.businessinsider.com/the-matrix-do-we-live-in-a-simulation-2019-4

In 2001, Nick Bostrom, a philosopher at the University of Oxford, circulated the first draft of a paper suggesting that a highly advanced supercomputer - with a mass on the order of a planet - would be capable of running a simulation on a humanity-size scale. (Bostrum told Vulture that he hadn't seen "The Matrix" before publishing the paper.)

Bostrom said this computer would be capable of doing 10^42 calculations per second, and it could simulate the entire history of humankind (including all our thoughts, feelings, and memories) by using less than one-millionth of its processing power for just one second.

By this logic, all of humanity and our entire physical universe are just blips of data stored in the hard drive of a massive supercomputer.

He concluded: " We are almost certainly characters living in a computer simulation."



There is no spoon!

... Many scientists argue, however, that we'll never be able to figure out whether or not we're living in a simulation.

Marcelo Gleiser, a physicist and philosopher at Dartmouth College, told New Scientist that trying to address Bostrum's question based on our current knowledge and technological capabilities is pretty hopeless. That's because if we were really living in a simulation, scientists wouldn't have any idea about the laws of physics in the "real world" outside. They also wouldn't know what kinds of computations would be possible outside the bounds of our simulation, Gleiser said.

... So everything that we think we know about what's possible in terms of computing power or the laws of physics could just be another aspect of the simulation.

... "If we're indeed a simulation, then that would be a logical possibility, that what we're measuring aren't really the laws of nature, they're some sort of attempt at some sort of artificial law that the simulators have come up with,"
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 01:33:11 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Archimid

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #454 on: May 06, 2019, 02:50:18 AM »
Nah. No Simulation. Supposing a simulation is a cop out, like religion. The only way the world is a simulation is that the human brain takes what it perceives of the universe runs it through a computer and the product of that calculation is what we call consciousness. We each have our own simulation. The simulation starts when the first few cells differentiate into neurons and ends when the neurons run out of power.

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If time passes and there is no one around to experience it, does time passes?
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #455 on: May 06, 2019, 03:53:02 AM »
Morpheus: What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain. 

... Or maybe it's all a dream?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inception
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 04:12:46 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Archimid

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #456 on: May 06, 2019, 05:55:30 AM »
What we can feel, smell, taste, see, hear, our perception of acceleration and time is our common reality. We perceive signals and the network of neurons in our brains process them. The output is consciousness.

 No simulation outside. No dream state. None of that is needed.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 06:02:42 AM by Archimid »
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #457 on: May 06, 2019, 06:40:22 AM »
Anil Seth (up thread) is a worthwhile watch:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1578.msg139605.html#msg139605

Further recycling from the Cars thread(!?):

In which way does the middle dancer turn?
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #458 on: May 06, 2019, 08:54:15 AM »
Both ways!

Fascinating...

oren

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #459 on: May 06, 2019, 11:03:08 AM »
The middle dancer depends on whether you focus on the left or the right one.
And there is an invisible teapot orbiting the Earth, and we are living in a simulation, and there is a god that will punish you if you masturbate.
Occam's razor says no.

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #460 on: May 06, 2019, 12:00:17 PM »
All wrong oren, it is merely an optical illusion. You actually don't need the left or right images to see her rotate in different directions, but they are helpful for those who can't see a reversal (using only the center image).
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.
-
Science is a jealous mistress and takes little account of a man's feelings.

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #461 on: May 06, 2019, 12:38:32 PM »
Maybe not an invisible teapot, but a shiny red Tesla Roadster :)



p.s. You're both wrong, 2D objects can't rotate in 3D space.  :P
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 11:39:03 PM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #462 on: May 07, 2019, 12:21:47 AM »


--------------------------------

Experimental Device Generates Electricity From the Coldness of the Universe
https://phys.org/news/2019-05-experimental-device-electricity-coldness-universe.html



An international team of scientists has demonstrated for the first time that it is possible to generate a measurable amount of electricity in a diode directly from the coldness of the universe. The infrared semiconductor device faces the sky and uses the temperature difference between Earth and space to produce the electricity.

"The vastness of the universe is a thermodynamic resource," said Shanhui Fan, an author on the paper. "In terms of optoelectronic physics, there is really this very beautiful symmetry between harvesting incoming radiation and harvesting outgoing radiation."

In contrast to leveraging incoming energy as a normal solar cell would, the negative illumination effect allows electrical energy to be harvested as heat leaves a surface. Today's technology, though, does not capture energy over these negative temperature differences as efficiently.

Open Access: Masashi Ono et al, Experimental demonstration of energy harvesting from the sky using the negative illumination effect of a semiconductor photodiode, Applied Physics Letters (2019)
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #463 on: June 27, 2019, 12:37:11 AM »
Fiat Lux ...

The First AI Universe Sim is Fast and Accurate—and Its Creators Don't Know How It Works 
https://phys.org/news/2019-06-ai-universe-sim-fast-accurateand.html



For the first time, astrophysicists have used artificial intelligence techniques to generate complex 3-D simulations of the universe. The results are so fast, accurate and robust that even the creators aren't sure how it all works.

"We can run these simulations in a few milliseconds, while other 'fast' simulations take a couple of minutes," says study co-author Shirley Ho, a group leader at the Flatiron Institute's Center for Computational Astrophysics in New York City and an adjunct professor at Carnegie Mellon University. "Not only that, but we're much more accurate."

The speed and accuracy of the project, called the Deep Density Displacement Model, or D3M for short, wasn't the biggest surprise to the researchers. The real shock was that D3M could accurately simulate how the universe would look if certain parameters were tweaked—such as how much of the cosmos is dark matter—even though the model had never received any training data where those parameters varied.

"It's like teaching image recognition software with lots of pictures of cats and dogs, but then it's able to recognize elephants," Ho explains. "Nobody knows how it does this, and it's a great mystery to be solved."

Open Access: Siyu He et al, Learning to predict the cosmological structure formation, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2019)

« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 01:55:16 AM by vox_mundi »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

be cause

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #464 on: June 27, 2019, 01:47:11 AM »
   .. enlightenment .. :) .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #465 on: August 13, 2019, 04:25:38 PM »
Brains Trained On e-Devices May Struggle to Understand Scientific Info
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-08-brains-e-devices-struggle-scientific-info.html

... In a study that used neuroimaging to explore brain activity, the researchers found the frequent e-device use—such as texting on a smart phone or reading on a tablet—was negatively correlated with activity in brain areas that are critical for integrating multiple sources of information, the researchers said.

Expository texts, such as articles in a science textbook, typically use inter-connected information, which means that material in one part of the text must be linked to information found in another part of the text, especially when reading for the purpose of understanding inter-connected concepts.

"In this case, if people use electronic devices excessively on a daily basis, that could possibly impair their ability to acquire hierarchical order—or structure—of scientific concepts,"
said Ping Li, associate director emeritus of Penn State's Institute for CyberScience and professor of psychology, linguistics, and information sciences and technology.

Li added that readers often must integrate many pieces of information that are arranged in a hierarchy in the article. Just like a person exercises to strengthen certain muscles, the researchers suggest that by using certain areas of the brain—and ignoring others—those sections may become stronger, or weaker. People who scan, or write bits of information too often, then, may not be building up the brain power to absorb multiple concepts stretched over long articles.

"If you cannot acquire—or understand—this hierarchy, then you aren't acquiring the essence of the concepts," said Li. "Understanding science isn't randomly putting sentences or bits of texts together, it is putting the key concepts in these sentences together in a hierarchical structure—which is something a lot of students are having trouble with today."

... Participants in the study read five scientific articles in the fMRI scanner. The articles covered STEM topics including math, GPS, Mars, electric circuits and the environment.

The researchers found, across all texts, a negative correlation between the self-reported frequency of electronic device usage and activity in brain regions referred to as left insula and the inferior frontal gyrus, or IFG. These brain areas are among the most important parts of the brain for information processing, such as paying attention and understanding language, according to Li.

Open Access: Chun-Ting Hsu et al. Neurocognitive Signatures of Naturalistic Reading of Scientific Texts: A Fixation-Related fMRI Study, Scientific Reports (2019)
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Florifulgurator

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #466 on: August 26, 2019, 01:37:01 AM »
When one choices to define truth based on power (and/or authority) rather than upon evidence, one separates (isolates) oneself from the rest of the system (i.e. systemic isolation); which then causes the rest of the system to act as a Hegelian antithesis and setting into motion a Hegelian dialectic double spiral of thesis/antithesis/synthesis through time.  This dynamic creates the "bubbles" (or event horizons, see Replies #154, 167 & 168) that leads to the protagonist (thesis) –antagonist (antithesis) double spiral that creates the tension that drives most storylines, from romantic comedies to political thrillers; and just such a deep storyline underlays the Scientism-Populism dynamic that I have discusses in my last many posts.

Another aspect of the Scientism – Populism dynamic is illustrated by Steve Bannon's opposition to the 'managerialism' associated with climate change scientism.  As mentioned, Bannon has retained Nicholas Taleb (the author of the book: "Antifragility: Things that Gain from Disorder"), to develop ideas that can be used to justify defunding climate science in America, in order to reduce the systemic fragility associated with over managing both the climate and over managing socio-economic systems in order to reduce GHG emissions.  In this regards, I note that all of the proposed later stages of the Paris Pact include some form of geoengineering, and introduce some risk of overstraining the fragile international financial systems.

To reiterate the Scientism-Populism storyline goes like this:  Scientism facilitates over (false) systemic managerialism, such as when hedge fund quants (that are frequently physicists) created the systemic fragilities that lead to the 2008 financial collapse that energized Bannon to embrace Taleb's antifragility approach that underlies alt-right populism.  In this alt-right deep storyline the common man has worked hard following the systemic rules, but has been betrayed by the intellectuals (including those serving the globalist Davos crowd) by using transferring risk (from over managerialism) to the common man such as in the case of the 'too big to fail' banks during the 2008 collapse. In this storyline this betrayal by intellectuals has led to the alt-right (kleptocratic) populist movement around the world (including Brexit, Trump, etc) in order to drain the systemic swap of intellectuals (in order to protect the vitality of the common man) by such measures as the Trump (& Lamar Smith) assault on science.

Such a Scientism-Populism dialectic storyline, helps to explain why Trump's efforts to negotiate the repeal & replacement of Obamacare failed; because as illustrated in the movie "A Beautiful Mind" (see Reply #109) when one seeks a resolution (synthesis) of a group negotiation using a business model of personal (kleptocratic) self-interest rather than by seeking a Nash equilibrium that has underlain business-union negotiations, then one achieve substandard results (that leads to unnecessary suffering by one or more parties).  This Obamacare negotiation failure can also be understood as follows:  When two parties negotiate using a business model to divide a stack of one hundred dollar bills, there are one hundred ways to divide the stack & one negotiates to maximize their own self-interest; but when a large group of people negotiate (such as for health care) there is only one viable solution and the purpose of the group negotiation is to find that one solution (or Nash equilibrium). 

My illustration from the movie "A Beautiful Mind" illustrates that such thesis/antithesis/synthesis negotiations are going on continuously within a human mind (including within John Nash's mind in the movie) to reach a resolution to allow oneself to deal with the chaotic swamp of reality, and why mindfulness meditation can be used to reduce systemic isolation from the self-create bubbles that we all live within when we use power/authority to determine the "truth".  In this sense, the human mind consists of a swamp of cravings and aversions originating from both nature & nurture of one's origins.  Thus per Hegel, within the historical anthropogenic dialectic spiral of cultures through the ages from hunter-gatherer to pre-industrial to industrial to post-industrial to the 4th Industrial Revolution, has led to institutional & cultural & educational & social refinements that hopefully can reduce human suffering by the reduction of the reliance on systemic (and/or mental) '-isms'. 

[...]

Wow. This bears repeat-o-quoting. (Actually I wanted to write something on the "RussiaCubed thread" and searched for Bannon here...=

I'm not that sure Stephen Bannon really understood Taleb's Antifragile book, (darn now I need to reshuffle my library...). Although he should - he has practical experience (and I'm just a humble theoretical probabilist with DaDaist inclinations).

The problem with Hegel is: Playing chess can make you stupid.



Life (being part of it) isn't just about the Present-at-hand and some omphaloskeptic hominids negotiating in antagonism, duelling, (or arguing the status quo of the Ready-to-hand in-their-head... Yes, you can take that as Heideggerisch).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heideggerian_terminology#Present-at-hand
Beyond the Present-at-hand and the Ready-to-hand there also is evolution.
Or, the future is relevant and is open. Even in purely anthropocentric business (if this exists at all) there is often enough a third party involved. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triell ... For serious business, forget about game theory...

A wheel needs at least 3 spokes, not just 2 like in chess. Or like in old Russian propaganda theory... :)
(According to Timothy Snyder the future is an important political knackpoint. Simplistic either-or, black-white, tertium non datur, etc. etc. thinking is a thinking without serious future in mind. It can be explosively confusing. (Thus a classical tactical weapon in information warfare.))
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 05:55:35 PM by Florifulgurator »

nanning

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #467 on: August 26, 2019, 07:04:24 AM »
Nice to see you virtual manifestation again Martin :)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Sebastian Jones

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #468 on: August 26, 2019, 05:12:44 PM »
Researchers Develop Way to Control Speed of Light, Send it Backward
https://phys.org/news/2019-04-researchers-develop-way-to-control.html
<SNIP>

Hahaha! Good one!
Clearly I need to spend more time on this thread...

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #469 on: August 26, 2019, 07:08:12 PM »
Researchers Develop Way to Control Speed of Light, Send it Backward
<SNIP>

Hahaha! Good one!
Clearly I need to spend more time on this thread...

I call that a mirror  :P.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #470 on: August 26, 2019, 11:09:33 PM »
Researchers Develop Way to Control Speed of Light, Send it Backward
<SNIP>

Hahaha! Good one!
Clearly I need to spend more time on this thread...

I call that a mirror  :P .
We could even send a beam obliquely down a hall of mirrors and measure its progress, or slowly bend our hall of mirrors back on itself until we van capture a bunch of protons that would circle about until the end of time.
WoW - Pass that joint back around, it too might circle forever if we could bend all the smoke back to where it came from.


Terry ::)

philopek

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #471 on: August 26, 2019, 11:15:55 PM »
Researchers Develop Way to Control Speed of Light, Send it Backward
<SNIP>

Hahaha! Good one!
Clearly I need to spend more time on this thread...


I call that a mirror  :P .
We could even send a beam obliquely down a hall of mirrors and measure its progress, or slowly bend our hall of mirrors back on itself until we van capture a bunch of protons that would circle about until the end of time.
WoW - Pass that joint back around, it too might circle forever if we could bend all the smoke back to where it came from.


Terry ::)

Do you mean Protons or Photons?


TerryM

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #472 on: August 26, 2019, 11:46:38 PM »
Researchers Develop Way to Control Speed of Light, Send it Backward
<SNIP>

Hahaha! Good one!
Clearly I need to spend more time on this thread...


I call that a mirror  :P .
We could even send a beam obliquely down a hall of mirrors and measure its progress, or slowly bend our hall of mirrors back on itself until we van capture a bunch of protons that would circle about until the end of time.
WoW - Pass that joint back around, it too might circle forever if we could bend all the smoke back to where it came from.


Terry ::)

Do you mean Protons or Photons?
Pass me 2 joints.
Terry

nanning

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #473 on: August 27, 2019, 07:27:02 AM »
Here you go  8)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
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philopek

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #474 on: August 27, 2019, 10:24:08 AM »
Here you go  8)

But he was already stoned ;)

As i can see you are a hand-worker, i use a nice sliding machine with "tubos", my clumsy fingers wouldn't do the job well ;)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 03:19:59 PM by philopek »

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #475 on: September 13, 2019, 05:10:55 PM »
A Famous Argument Against Free Will Has Been Debunked
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/09/free-will-bereitschaftspotential/597736/

“Philosophers have been debating free will for millennia, and they have been making progress. But neuroscientists barged in like an elephant into a china shop and claimed to have solved it in one fell swoop”

... “I thought, Wait a minute,” Schurger says. If he applied the same method to the spontaneous brain noise he studied, what shape would he get?  “I looked at my screen, and I saw something that looked like the Bereitschaftspotential.” Perhaps, Schurger realized, the Bereitschaftspotential’s rising pattern wasn’t a mark of a brain’s brewing intention at all, but something much more circumstantial.

Two years later, Schurger and his colleagues Jacobo Sitt and Stanislas Dehaene proposed an explanation. Neuroscientists know that for people to make any type of decision, our neurons need to gather evidence for each option. The decision is reached when one group of neurons accumulates evidence past a certain threshold. Sometimes, this evidence comes from sensory information from the outside world: If you’re watching snow fall, your brain will weigh the number of falling snowflakes against the few caught in the wind, and quickly settle on the fact that the snow is moving downward.

But Libet’s experiment, Schurger pointed out, provided its subjects with no such external cues. To decide when to tap their fingers, the participants simply acted whenever the moment struck them. Those spontaneous moments, Schurger reasoned, must have coincided with the haphazard ebb and flow of the participants’ brain activity. They would have been more likely to tap their fingers when their motor system happened to be closer to a threshold for movement initiation.

This would not imply, as Libet had thought, that people’s brains “decide” to move their fingers before they know it. Hardly. Rather, it would mean that the noisy activity in people’s brains sometimes happens to tip the scale if there’s nothing else to base a choice on, saving us from endless indecision when faced with an arbitrary task. The Bereitschaftspotential would be the rising part of the brain fluctuations that tend to coincide with the decisions. This is a highly specific situation, not a general case for all, or even many, choices.

... Is everything we do determined by the cause-and-effect chain of genes, environment, and the cells that make up our brain, or can we freely form intentions that influence our actions in the world? The topic is immensely complicated, and Schurger’s valiant debunking underscores the need for more precise and better-informed questions.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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nanning

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #476 on: September 13, 2019, 06:35:22 PM »
^^
I think it boils down to language representation limits and not understanding the concept of conscience. To thinking in the wrong level of detail; missing many 'bigger pictures'. To trying to define something that in reality is not one thing.

There are many limitations to new understanding and new interpretations because of language representation limits. I run into that a lot. It's better to leave ideas floating until they're clear and consistent. Then practice in how to formulate it in human language.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

nanning

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #477 on: September 13, 2019, 06:44:44 PM »
<snip>
But he was already stoned ;)

Yes but he asked for more.
I can understand that, and his 'need' ;). I smoke 8 joints a day on average (0.6g).

About the photo, that is a picture I took from the Internet. Those are not mine, sorry for the confusion. I don't use cigarettes.
Over here we have shag  8).
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

kassy

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #478 on: September 16, 2019, 12:12:20 AM »
^^
I think it boils down to language representation limits and not understanding the concept of conscience. To thinking in the wrong level of detail; missing many 'bigger pictures'. To trying to define something that in reality is not one thing.

The problem here is which model of the mind they used.

This would not imply, as Libet had thought, that people’s brains “decide” to move their fingers before they know it. Hardly. Rather, it would mean that the noisy activity in people’s brains sometimes happens to tip the scale if there’s nothing else to base a choice on, saving us from endless indecision when faced with an arbitrary task. The Bereitschaftspotential would be the rising part of the brain fluctuations that tend to coincide with the decisions. This is a highly specific situation, not a general case for all, or even many, choices.

Cells are spiking all over the human body and these spikes then get collected in the neural net which makes it´s own spikes and then the brain does something with it. It triggers some behaviour but it does not specifically decide anything.

I really like the debunking argument.

PS: Try Zen practice. Just sit down in a correct posture breathe in and breathe out and think about nothing. It is hard but rewarding (you will probably run into stuff you have to handle before you can get to nothing) and basically it is also free.  :)
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

nanning

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #479 on: September 16, 2019, 05:43:15 AM »
Re: (Zen) meditation

I don't understand the meditation practice of 'emptying' your head.
Does it mean thinking nothing at all, or just not thinking in human language?

By having a head full of thoughts, I have so much fun, new explorations and insights. And I don't need to lose any lifetime by trying to stop my thinking. I lose enough lifetime by sleeping 8 hours every day ;) .
Restraint and quiet is good, but this kind of restraint seems purposeless to me.

To a certain degree I am already able to study the workings of my own head.


Nice word, "Zen". Has a mystic dreamy quality to it :) .
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

blumenkraft

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #480 on: September 16, 2019, 06:01:38 AM »
Try mindfulness then. ;)
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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #481 on: September 23, 2019, 04:44:32 PM »
Everything can be perfectly predicted given enough data and processing power.

Nope. Given quantum uncertainty and the butterfly effect, predictions are doomed to fail sooner or later.

My speculation is that quantum mechanics are today's equivalent to the Ptolemaic model. The geocentric Ptolemaic model could accurate predict and describe the sky above, which was the observable universe at the time. Within its own sets of rules it was correct and extremely useful.

 Quantum mechanics are a very elaborate mathematical model that is extremely useful at making accurate predictions that are not fully understood but correct.

Our understanding of the universe is limited to our senses like sight and our perception of time. There may be a whole universe that we are missing in the same way Ptolemy couldn't see the universe we see today.

If such universe is ordered like all other physics, then QM weirdness disappears and order is restored. With it the butterfly effect disappears.

What you say is right, in theory. Real randomness occurs within our current mathematical framework. However, for the practical purposes of trying to find patterns on daily data vs monthly data there is much "noise" that is worth looking at before we get to QM, for the following reasons:

 1. The data points are limited to a few years.
 2. We don't have the time to get enough data points to make proper statistical analysis.
 3. We have a lot of well documented and well digested data for all kinds of variables that can be compared and establish patterns.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #482 on: September 23, 2019, 05:59:19 PM »
But the butterfly effect only says that a small perturbation far away can have a large effect nearby.  It does not imply randomness.  Given enough current observations and enough computing power, (in theory!) the effect of every flap of a butterfly's wing could be predicted.

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #483 on: September 23, 2019, 09:01:39 PM »
No matter how small?
Radioactive atoms decay randomly. No computer will be able to predict when an atom will decay.
And the butterflies grow and multiply from there.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Archimid

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #484 on: September 24, 2019, 12:44:33 AM »
Quote
Radioactive atoms decay randomly.

I'm with Einstein on this.  God does not play dice. The Copenhagen interpretation is a limit of knowledge. There must be an event or series of event that cause the tipping point of radioactive decay in every atom. It is just beyond human understanding for now. 
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

TerryM

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #485 on: September 24, 2019, 01:48:44 AM »
But the butterfly effect only says that a small perturbation far away can have a large effect nearby.  It does not imply randomness.  Given enough current observations and enough computing power, (in theory!) the effect of every flap of a butterfly's wing could be predicted.
My recollection, though decades old is exactly the opposite. When we have the computational power and fine enough sensors to follow the effect of the butterfly's wing in Japan, we find that that wind was controlled because a snowflake alit on a warm rock in the Alps.
Once we've computed that series of events we'll find that the snowflake only ... & so on ad infinitum.


Hence Chaos
Terry

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #486 on: September 24, 2019, 03:16:42 AM »
I'll accept that you hold the against the mainstream theory of Hidden Variables.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #487 on: September 24, 2019, 04:57:42 AM »
Niels Bohr was very clear on quantum physics not hiding any "classical" physics substrata. In other words, quantum effects are real and there are no as-not-yet-found physical laws that will make them go away.

Bohr's reasoning was simple: While classical physics deals with the large scale, quantum mechanics deals with the smallest things possible - the smallest packages of energy, the smallest units of matter. And given that these are indeed the smallest things possible then there is nowhere that "extra" or "new" physical laws could exists.  There are no energy or matter units that this hypothetical physics could work on.

And as for Einstein claiming that god does not play with dice, that is a non-starter if there ever was. God does not exist, and a throw of dice can only be truly random if you presuppose quantum unpredictability. A double logical error: circular reasoning combined with appeal to authority - and an imaginary one at that.
because a thing is eloquently expressed it should not be taken to be as necessarily true
St. Augustine, Confessions V, 6

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #488 on: September 24, 2019, 09:07:32 AM »
Frequency is how humans perceive the world through the arrow of time. A probability distribution is a human invention that can provide the probability of an event over many events.

That is QM. An amazing probability distribution. A tool so amazing that it can within uncertainties predict phenomenon outside the known realm of physics, like spooky action at a distance.  Very much like the Ptolemaic model, QM is a set of rules based on observations that gives us very powerful predictive power. It does not tell us anything else about the "nature of the world".

 Every action has an equal and opposite reaction tells us something about the universe.

 Energy is neither created nor destroyed tells us something about the universe.

 P(X) is a number from 0 to 1 that we call the probability of an event. It tells us nothing about the event itself except the probability. That is something important and useful, but it tells us nothing about the universe except a probability. 

"God does not play dice" has nothing to do with gods or dice, but with Einstein's belief on the deterministic nature of the cosmos and I agree with him. There is a huge slice of the universe we are missing. QM let's us hack that lack of knowledge in useful ways, but in no way explains it.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

sidd

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #489 on: September 25, 2019, 01:14:48 AM »
I think the disturbing thing about QM is Bell's theorem. Crudely put, it requires giving up one of the three postulates of locality, causality or free will.

sidd
 

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #490 on: September 25, 2019, 04:12:55 AM »
Archimid, your critique of Quantum Mechanics are almost identical to the criticism that Newton's Matematica met with after publicatio.  As a lot of others at the time pointed out, Newton just discovered a method of calculating movements of the planets that were better than the previous methods, but he didn't even try to explain anything about the "nature of the world".

That has all come from quantum mechanics (although gravity has as yet proven elusive). Practically everything we now about molecular and atomic physics and chemistry comes from quantum mechanics.

Your comment about "sets of rules" neatly encompasses all of mathematics. For several decades now philosophers of science have grappled with the question of whether or not mathematics is a "true" representation of the physical world, or simply a human construct. The latter seems the most logical conclusion, but the tendency of the physical world to follow mathematics rather than logic (as amply shown in quantum mechanics), and the ubiquity of certain constants that simply pop up everywhere you look, as well as the reliability of mathematics to come up with new hypoteses that can be later shown experimentally to be true (e.g. all of Einsteins relativity theories) have led others to conclude that mathematics (and information) are the true underpinnings of the material world.

So perhaps, archimid, you can see that you are some decades (if not centuries) behind in your criticism, perhaps it's time to open a book?
because a thing is eloquently expressed it should not be taken to be as necessarily true
St. Augustine, Confessions V, 6

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #491 on: September 25, 2019, 05:08:16 AM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

nanning

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #492 on: September 25, 2019, 06:27:09 AM »
Funny cartoon vox :)

In my view:
Physics tries to describe reality (nature) at a fundamental level.
Many mathematicians think their extremely abstract rigorous science is purer than that of those sloppy physicists.
In abstraction: Yes that's true. In reality: Not true. (e.g. There are no perfect circles in nature.)

Originally all fields were a part of philosophy I think. Less specialisation, homo universalis.

The biologist in the cartoon should put that squid back into the ocean. What's he/she doing?  >:(  :P


Re: 'Systemic Isolation' seems to me to describe most non-civilisation tribes. Living-with-nature tribes, like those today remaining in the Amazon (until the violent civilisation tribe pays a visit with bulldozers, weapons and total destruction).
Maybe it's not what the original poster had in mind.
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sidd

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #493 on: September 25, 2019, 07:21:29 AM »
Re: "Newton just discovered a method of calculating movements of the planets that were better than the previous methods, but he didn't even try to explain anything about the "nature of the world". "

I would suggest the law of gravitation was an attempt to explain the nature of the world. As were the laws of motion, and results on light.

Of course, each of these was superseded, but for the time his discoveries illuminated the universe. 

His papers on alchemy were part of the same effort, to understand the nature of the world.

Exactly the same comment can be made about relativity or QM. All that these are is a better method of calculation, So shut up and calculate as more than one fizicist has said. (I must admit, i may have said it myself ... )

sidd

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #494 on: September 25, 2019, 08:21:16 AM »
Hmm, aren't transistors dependent on quantum mechanical tunneling of electrons? 

Meditation, it is nice when you get to the point where the monkey mind (that just keeps swinging from thought to thought to thought) quiets down and for however long there is nothing on the surface of your consciousness going on. 

Archimid

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #495 on: September 25, 2019, 12:47:45 PM »
That our best tool to describe the very small is a probability distribution does not mean that the world is inherently random.

Read this paper so you understand my perspective on this.

https://bayes.wustl.edu/etj/articles/cmystery.pdf

A snippet:

Quote
In our system, a probability is a theoretical construct, on the epistemological level, which we
assign in order to represent a state of knowledge, or that we calculate from other probabilities
according to the rules of probability theory. A frequency is a property of the real world, on the
ontological level, that we measure or estimate. So for us, probability theory is not an Oracle telling
how the world must be; it is a mathematical tool for organizing, and ensuring the consistency of,
our own reasoning. But it is from this organized reasoning that we learn whether our state of
knowledge is adequate to describe the real world.

This point comes across much more strongly in our next example, where belief that probabilities
are real physical properties produces a major quandary for quantum theory, in the EPR paradox.
It is so bad that some have concluded, with the usual consistency of quantum theory, that (1) there is no real world, after all, and (2) physical influences travel faster than light.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

vox_mundi

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #496 on: September 25, 2019, 02:30:34 PM »
Sustainable Development Goals Only Achievable Through Cross-Disciplinary Research
https://phys.org/news/2019-09-sustainable-goals-cross-disciplinary.html

It is not possible to achieve the Sustainable Development Goals (SDG) if science does not contribute with cross-disciplinary knowledge and understanding of how systems are interconnected. This is emphasized by a U.N. appointed panel of international researchers with the University of Copenhagen represented in Nature Sustainability in connection with the Sustainable Development Goals Global Summit in New York.

...The researchers emphasize that solutions to individual global goals may counteract the advancement of other goals. If, for example, food production is expanded in order to achieve the global goal of zero hunger, this may simultaneously work against the global goals of preventing climate change and protecting and preserving life on land. It is such interactions between systems that researchers and universities need to research in a cross-disciplinary manner, Katherine Richardson points out.

If one can break down the silos and the sector thinking in the world of science, scientists will to a far greater extent be able to conduct research that can make a global difference.

Open Access: Peter Messerli et al, Expansion of sustainability science needed for the SDGs, Nature Sustainability (2019).
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

binntho

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #497 on: September 25, 2019, 04:13:27 PM »
As for Newton, he himself was very aware of the fact that he had made no attempt whatsoever to explain the law of gravity.

Lots of people had at that time postulated a gravitational force between heavenly bodies, and the inverse-square law seemed the most logical version. Hooke for one tried to measure it, and others speculated.

But one of the biggest problems was that nobody could envision how such a force could work - the concept of a force that operated through the void of space was something that most scientist/philosophers of the time didn't really think was possible.

Newton decided to ignore the problem of how (or even why) and focus on the mathematics. His breakthrough was the development of calculus that enabled him to mathematically prove certain postulated laws, such as the inverse law of gravitation.

Today we know a lot more about how forces work, and only through breakthroughs in quantum mechanics. We know that the four fundamental forces, i.e. gravity, electromagnetism, the strong and the weak nuclear forces, operate through the transmission of elementary particles and that the void is not really void, etc.
because a thing is eloquently expressed it should not be taken to be as necessarily true
St. Augustine, Confessions V, 6

binntho

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #498 on: September 25, 2019, 04:37:05 PM »
Archimid, the EPR paradox has effectively been disproved (your article pointed to a rather weird paper on Bayesian statistics that didn't seem pertinent, except for the discussion of the Einstein - Podolsky - Rosen (EPR) paradox).

Basically, the EPR paradox assumes that entanglement cannot transmit information faster than the speed of light, and therefore, that measurements of entangled particles can be done with a higher degree of precision than stated by the Eisenberg uncertainty principle. But the ability of entangled particles to transmit information instantaneously, in accordance with quantum mechanics,  has been verified experimentally by the Chinese. (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-shatters-ldquo-spooky-action-at-a-distance-rdquo-record-preps-for-quantum-internet/)

As the Wikipedia article on the EPR paradox states:

Quote
According to the present view of the situation, quantum mechanics flatly contradicts Einstein's philosophical postulate that any acceptable physical theory must fulfill "local realism".

and

Quote
Most physicists today believe that quantum mechanics is correct, and that the EPR paradox is a "paradox" only because classical intuitions do not correspond to physical reality.

Finally, if the recent news about Google having achieved quantum supremacy holds up to scrutiny then that would put to rest once and for all the question of whether the random nature of quantum mechanics is an artifact of mathematics or a true description of the natural world.

Apparently, Google used 53 qbits to generate a string of random numbers and then verify mathematically that the numbers were truly random. A standard computer is unable to generate truly random numbers (random number generators based on Geiger counters can be plugged in the USB port).

Google's quantum computer took 3 minutes and 20 seconds to verify mathematically that the numbers were truly random, something that would take 10.000 years on the most powerful computer in the world today.
because a thing is eloquently expressed it should not be taken to be as necessarily true
St. Augustine, Confessions V, 6

wili

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Re: Systemic Isolation
« Reply #499 on: September 25, 2019, 06:28:32 PM »
I'm out of my depth here, but isn't gravity a bit different from the others...not really a 'force,' but a  'curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass' as wiki puts it.

Did they used to think there was a 'gravitron' particle? For some reason I remembered something like this, but when I searched, all the came up was a carnival ride by that name!  :o

Anyway, thanks for getting me to look around, because I also found the following passage in the wiki page answered a question I posed to my high school physics teacher way back in the '70s, who had no answer:

Speed of gravity

In December 2012, a research team in China announced that it had produced measurements of the phase lag of Earth tides during full and new moons which seem to prove that the speed of gravity is equal to the speed of light.[43]

This means that if the Sun suddenly disappeared, the Earth would keep orbiting it normally for 8 minutes, which is the time light takes to travel that distance. The team's findings were released in the Chinese Science Bulletin in February 2013.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."