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Sigmetnow

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Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« on: March 25, 2013, 09:07:42 PM »
Lockheed Martin’s “Skunk Works” is promising fusion power in four years:

“Lockheed's fusion power plant uses radio energy to heat deuterium gas inside tightly controlled magnetic fields, creating a very high temperature plasma that's much more stable and well confined than you'd find in something like a tokamak.”

“Charles Chase describes what his team has been working on: a trailer-sized fusion power plant that turns cheap and plentiful hydrogen (deuterium and tritium) into helium plus enough energy to power a small city.”

“Chase didn't give a whole lot more technical detail, but he seemed confident in predicting a 100mW prototype by 2017, with commercial 100mW systems available by 2022, implying that all global energy demands will be able to be met by fusion power by about 2045. No more oil, no more coal, no more nuclear, and not even any solar or wind or hydro will be necessary (unless you're into that sort of thing): fusion has the potential to produce as much affordable clean power as we'll ever need, for the entire world."

Brief article and a 15 minute video here:
http://www.dvice.com/2013-2-22/lockheeds-skunk-works-promises-fusion-power-four-years
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 10:18:16 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Amaranthus

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 09:58:08 PM »
Have you looked up Andrea Rossi yet?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer

The one thing I find intriguing about this otherwise sketchy character is that he's sold about 20 of these things to major multinational corporations at a million bucks a pop and no one has yet sued him for fraud.  These are companies with battalions of engineers to study the device, see if it is as advertised and if not, to pursue him with attack lawyers to the ends of the earth.

gfwellman

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 10:02:52 PM »
Rossi's E-CAT is a fraud.

Amaranthus

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 10:04:00 PM »
Probably, but no one has bothered to prove that yet either.

Neven

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 10:23:55 PM »
Probably, but no one has bothered to prove that yet either.
Wrong, unfortunately. Ugo Bardi from the Cassandra's Legacy blog completely demolished the E-Cat around this time last year.

The Sinking of the E-Cat
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frankendoodle

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 10:06:18 PM »
Ask a physicist how far we are from practical nuclear fusion. They will tell you:"Fusion is just 20 years away and has been since the 1970's."
That's the inside joke, nuclear fusion is always just 20 years away :)
What is really exciting are the near limitless new technologies that can be derived from substances with a negative temperature coefficient.
 http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-gas-goes-below-absolute-zero-1.12146
This stuff makes fusion or anti-matter power look like a steam engine. Yes I know its an imperfect analogy, but this breakthrough is likely to be the foundation of interstellar travel for humankind.   

Dromicosuchus

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 01:15:11 AM »
As I understand it, all that the "negative temperature" involves is a simple population inversion--a form of population inversion that hasn't been achieved before, true, and it might have some interesting properties, but I wouldn't be so sure that it'll end up ever being anything other than a neat parlor trick.

Amaranthus

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 12:51:44 PM »
Looks like Mr. Rossi and his novel device are back in the news...and he's gotten some legitimate scientists to stake their reputations on his cold fusion trick...

Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/156393-cold-fusion-reactor-independently-verified-has-10000-times-the-energy-density-of-gas

Third Party Tests Prove Rossi’s E-Cat HT2 Works

http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Third-Party-Tests-Prove-Rossis-E-Cat-HT2-Works.html
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 02:43:28 PM by Amaranthus »

Vergent

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 03:18:52 PM »
Where I come from, they call this a Boondoggle.

Vergent

Laurent

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 06:42:12 PM »
I saw a conference of a young guy trying to make Nuclear fusion ! I don't know what to think about that !
http://ehsm.eu/
Download available here :
http://media.freitagsrunde.org/mirror/ehsm/2012/ 
You want the second one ehsm nuclear fusion reactor.

ivica

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2013, 06:31:05 PM »
Over at Café, Laurent (thanks) gave us link to the video (2010.) about experiment with nuclear fusion, in own home.  ???

Fusion power, one of the stuff that always seems to be around the corner.
Fusion is hard to do. Of course it is. That is creation, and that is always much harder to do than destroy something. We need a lot of more knowledge for fusion then for fission.

How many scientists/physicists work on fusion power & related problems?
How much money/year is put into that? How that amount looks if expressed in 'missile' units?  :-[
'Missile' unit: price of a 'popular' missile (1-10 M$ ?)

TED talk from 2009., "Steven Cowley: Fusion is energy's future": (worth watching for general 'energy' reasons too)

Source: Why Fusion? at FusionFuture.

Basic info: Fusion power, Plasma physic, Nuclear fusion.

Nuclear Fusion Power
info at WNA (World Nuclear Association) website.

Fusion power: is it getting any closer? at TheGuardian, August, 2011.:
Quote
"Saving the planet is a nice thing to do," he laughs. "Doing something that no one else has ever done is attractive, too. But, ultimately, this is fascinating. I work at the best fusion laboratory in the world, where we conduct day-to-day physics with an incredibly high level of intellectual activity. Every night on the train home I prefer to do a calculation rather than a sudoku. I try to work out things such as how a 200-million-degree-celsius plasma behaves in a magnetic field. Such things are critically important for the future of our world, but they're bloody good fun, too."
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 06:52:23 PM by ivica »

ggelsrinc

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 01:10:54 AM »
Lockheed Martin’s “Skunk Works” is promising fusion power in four years:

“Lockheed's fusion power plant uses radio energy to heat deuterium gas inside tightly controlled magnetic fields, creating a very high temperature plasma that's much more stable and well confined than you'd find in something like a tokamak.”

“Charles Chase describes what his team has been working on: a trailer-sized fusion power plant that turns cheap and plentiful hydrogen (deuterium and tritium) into helium plus enough energy to power a small city.”

“Chase didn't give a whole lot more technical detail, but he seemed confident in predicting a 100mW prototype by 2017, with commercial 100mW systems available by 2022, implying that all global energy demands will be able to be met by fusion power by about 2045. No more oil, no more coal, no more nuclear, and not even any solar or wind or hydro will be necessary (unless you're into that sort of thing): fusion has the potential to produce as much affordable clean power as we'll ever need, for the entire world."

Brief article and a 15 minute video here:
http://www.dvice.com/2013-2-22/lockheeds-skunk-works-promises-fusion-power-four-years

Odd! Charles Chase said lithium is abundant and proposes to use it to make tritium. That statement is very ambiguous, because it is true that lithium isn't that rare on the Earth's surface, but economically available lithium is.

Quote
According to the Handbook of Lithium and Natural Calcium, "Lithium is a comparatively rare element, although it is found in many rocks and some brines, but always in very low concentrations. There are a fairly large number of both lithium mineral and brine deposits but only comparatively few of them are of actual or potential commercial value. Many are very small, others are too low in grade."[44]

One of the largest reserve base[note 2] of lithium is in the Salar de Uyuni area of Bolivia, which has 5.4 million tonnes. US Geological Survey, estimates that in 2010 Chile had the largest reserves by far (7.5 million tonnes)[45] and the highest annual production (8,800 tonnes). Other major suppliers include Australia, Argentina and China.[37][46]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

My <b>

I've been concerned about getting enough lithium and other rare elements to make electric cars a reality.

Do you think this project might just be held up, because something is telling the decision makers in the back of their minds that it may not work and they will have to explain why they financed an aircraft/aerospace corporation that made a great bomber through their project called skunk works? If it doesn't succeed, how dumb are you, surely would be asked?

Another problem I see is their reaction making a neutron means that abundant neutrons on the order of a part per million oil energy equivalent have to hit some kind of matter and it will make radioactive isotopes with a short half life, compared to fission. It's possible graphite could slow those neutrons down, but what kind of matter stops the neutron flow from contact with the magnet?

I have no idea how they can generate more power by fusion than needed to contain the plasma magnetically. Even if possible, it looks like a lithium hog. The isotope needed in the fusion reaction is Li6, which is a stable isotope and is about 7.5% of all lithium, Li7 being nearly 92.5% (think Bikini Atoll). It was expensive to separate the isotopes to make the lithium deuteride hydrogen bomb back then and when the bomb was set off, the blast was much larger than expected. Proper isotopes of lithium hydride (Li6D) are very stable and great for making hydrogen bombs, but those elite scientists were unaware that Li7 can also be involved in fusion reactions. The fuels to look for that are in abundance on Earth to make fusion happen are isotopes of hydrogen and our good old friend carbon. So if an alien spaceship arrives and you and your friends rush in quickly to make first contact, keep this thought in the back of your minds! Do they want you for food or fuel to get the hell out of here? 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 01:20:47 AM by ggelsrinc »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2014, 12:08:39 AM »
A big success in a tiny test.

Quote
Now, researchers at the National Ignition Facility of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in the U.S. announce that they managed to use lasers to compress fuel made from two heavier forms of hydrogen enough to kick off a nuclear fusion reaction. And for the first time, the reaction managed to generate more energy than was absorbed by the fuel from the lasers.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/nuclear-fusion-hits-energy-milestone-1.2534140
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ghoti

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 01:03:23 AM »
More like a tiny success in a massively huge long term effort. We'll be collecting much more energy sent our way from the fusion reactor in our sky in the near future but I doubt I'll live long enough to see any energy production from fusion. I'm not opposed to the research just not convinced we'll see it lead to technology for many decades.

JimD

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2014, 05:06:49 PM »
I read the Wall Street Journal on this development this morning.  As ghoti said it is considered significant in a very small way.  One figure I noted is that this method needs to generate and control temperatures of 150 million C or ten times the temperature at the center of the Sun.  There are no indications yet that we will ever be able to do this and plenty of true experts have stated that we will not be able to.  Others hold hope and we spend lots of money which will be harder and harder to afford to spend as time goes on.  Estimates of when this might be possible are still put at decades from now (which I note was the same estimate put forth 40 years ago when I first read about this).  It is one of the technical miracles people hang their hopes on. 
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bligh8

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 03:21:48 PM »
I know some folks out at Princeton who have been working on this problem for a long time, decades, word is…fusion energy is the energy of the future and always will be.

SATire

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2014, 04:44:10 PM »
A big success in a tiny test.
A big success for military research (to replace testing the real thing, which would include some diplomatic issues). The talking about commercial use or electricity generation from laser induced fusion is only marketing - and a really bad one. Those laser based machines are not planned to generate energy in the future.

The fusion reactors are different machines and that research is similar expensive. Since 40 years it is told to be available in 20 years or later - the second number will probably stay stable while the first number increases as the years go by...

Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2014, 03:31:20 PM »
Still trying...

"For years, EMC2 Fusion Development Corp. has had to conduct its research into what's known as Polywell fusion outside public view because the Navy wanted it that way. Now the Navy is phasing out its funding, and EMC2 Fusion is planning a three-year, $30 million commercial research program to see if its unorthodox approach can provide a fast track to cheap nuclear fusion power."

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/low-cost-fusion-project-steps-out-shadows-looks-money-n130661

(Apparently hexagons are the shape of the future {see: Solar Roadways; the interior wall of SpaceX's Dragon 2 space capsule; the interior wall of the TARDIS; etc.}, so I have high hopes for the "next" model shown in the video!   8)   )
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jai mitchell

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2014, 05:34:38 AM »
The main problem with ITER, besides, you know, maintaining containment, was the fact that high-energy neutrons would be capture by the steel and concrete so that within 20 years the capture-gamma radiation levels would be too high to work on the equipment.

The energy generated by the fission reaction has to be transferred to a medium so that it can be converted to electricity.  This is done by gamma and neutron capture (last I checked) hmmm maybe the found a way to use broad spectrum radiant heat capture, (while shielding for neutron and high energy gamma fluxes. . .

I can't wait to find out more about this.  A 4-year promise for a working prototype is more than a moonshot, it is a moonshot with a timeline based on the fact that we are going to destroy the capacity for modern civilization within the next 20 years if we don't significantly reduce and eventually halt our GHG emissions. . .
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Lynn Shwadchuck

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2014, 02:55:03 AM »
I'm glad to know there's a race on, but disappointed to learn that ITER isn't looking all that promising. I can't begin to understand why you would need an installation as huge as ITER if it can be done in a trailer. My brain hurts.
Still living in the bush in eastern Ontario. Gave up on growing annual veggies. Too much drought.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2014, 08:50:59 PM »
Lockheed Martin announces small fusion reactors for public use in 10 years.  Climate Progress says that's too late.

"In short, the advance of renewable technology, combined with the fact that we’ve essentially run out of time on climate change, have likely rendered nuclear power irrelevant, or at least of indeterminate usefulness."

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/10/15/3580379/fusion-power-lockheed-martin-cfr/
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Lynn Shwadchuck

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2014, 03:18:57 PM »
I completely forgot I already got all excited about this last year. I watched the lead inventor talk about it and he said 'power for the world in twenty years'. Too late, for sure.
Still living in the bush in eastern Ontario. Gave up on growing annual veggies. Too much drought.

crandles

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2014, 05:33:37 PM »
Too late, for sure.

Huh?

For sure, we cannot abandon all other efforts and rely on this working within the sort of time-scales discussed. This point needs to be made, it isn't some panacea.

But dismissing it as too late seems OTT. Almost seems as if the reaction is they shouldn't bother with that research because it will be too late.

I want them to keep investing to try and get it to work because it could be useful. I don't see sudden catastrophe within 30 years. More likely we keep fighting a worsening situation and however far along with a worsening situation, such technology is likely to find a useful role.

Laurent

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2014, 07:19:11 PM »
Experts Skeptical Of Lockheed Martin's 'Nuclear Fusion Breakthrough'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/lockheed-nuclear-fusion-energy_n_5990900.html?utm_hp_ref=green&ir=Green

They should start a kickstarter... ;)

Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2014, 03:19:38 PM »
Nobody said anything about *stopping*.  ;)  It's simply that fusion will (maybe) be a part of our future energy mix, but cannot help us presently.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2014, 12:09:59 AM »
Lockheed Martin announces small fusion reactors for public use in 10 years.  Climate Progress says that's too late.

"In short, the advance of renewable technology, combined with the fact that we’ve essentially run out of time on climate change, have likely rendered nuclear power irrelevant, or at least of indeterminate usefulness."

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/10/15/3580379/fusion-power-lockheed-martin-cfr/

Climate change is simply too dangerous to wait to see if Lockheed can deliver.  Ten years from now.  We must accelerate our installations of the technologies we have in hand right now.

If, ten or twenty years down the road, fusion becomes practical/affordable then we can switch over.  Finish replacing any left over fossil fuel plants and replace wind and solar farms as they wear out.


Laurent

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2014, 10:44:03 AM »
'Skunk power' creates confusion over nuclear fusion
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29710811

Fusion already exist...in our sun...so let's make solar powered stuff that does not pollute in the process and may be we will be fine with energy.

jai mitchell

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2014, 07:13:40 PM »
This image makes me very, very happy. . .



combined with the declines in battery storage costs, this is a real revolution.

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Bob Wallace

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2014, 08:23:03 PM »
This image makes me very, very happy. . .



combined with the declines in battery storage costs, this is a real revolution.



Do you have a source for these pretty pictures?

Bob Wallace

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2014, 08:27:33 PM »
And speaking of pretty pictures, I've never seen anything plot out as dramatically as the price of solar does here -




Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2015, 04:08:12 PM »
Why It's Taking The U.S. So Long To Make Fusion Energy Work
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/20/fusion-energy-reactor_n_6438772.html
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folke_kelm

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2015, 05:26:57 PM »
if oner reads about fusion it is staggereing how little people know about physics. There are many many many unsolved problems around fusion, one of them is, how to extract the excess energy from the system. Steam turbines like in fission reactors?  That is ancient technology, sorry. What about excess neutron radiation? Nothing about this will ever make it into the press, and when you read comments about media articles you will see, that no one understands what really is (not) going on.
Research about fusion processes is necessary to understand principles and to develop future technology, but it will never be competitive with solar.

icefest

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2015, 02:02:21 PM »
Steam turbines like in fission reactors?  That is ancient technology, sorry.

Research about fusion processes is necessary to understand principles and to develop future technology, but it will never be competitive with solar.

Age of a technology doesn't disqualify it. The steam turbine came after the dynamo, and after the invention of the wheel and yet both of those are still used.

Blanket statements are easy to disprove. I bet you that in the high latitudes fusion will be cheaper than Solar. Six months of electricity storage is expensive.
Open other end.

folke_kelm

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2015, 03:37:18 PM »
icefest, i take the bet ;-)
let´s wait 20 years how long we have gone with the development. The problem i see is, that the overall efficency with steam turbines in a fission reactor is very very low, under 10% actually. You have to scale up with fusion due to much higher energy flow. This will prove not at all easy.
In the high latitudes the demand for energy is not at all as big as to justify a big fusion plant.
There are plenty of alternative technologies to use in such regions.
The overall problem we have in todays energy production and distribution is, that the infrastructure is designed for big powerplants and wide distribution. Big powerplants of todays design run at high output for a long time, they are not designed to power down at all, they have to run for a year and then shut down for overhaul. That is common for big coal plants and nuclear.
I do not see a small fusionplant anywhere in development, but i see many small plants with other techologies, not only solar and wind.

icefest

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2015, 12:15:53 AM »
You open ended blanket statement was directly comparing fusion to solar, and without any time frame. Any instance, at any point of time would make it wrong.

I agree that other renewables are much more likely to be cheaper. That's not part of the bet though. The only chance I have of losing the bet is if by the time fusion is economical, solar power satellites are both available and cheaper (seeing as that's the only way you can get solar over winter).

Steam turbines are actually quite efficient nowadays, with thermal efficiency reaching 40%. Some of that is lost due to integral energy requirements of the plant though. http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2013/ph241/kallman1/docs/nuclear_reactors.pdf


EDIT: Added link.
Open other end.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2015, 08:24:37 PM »
Article briefly describes a number of different fusion projects funded today.  Still looks like useable fusion is at least ten years off, though.

Rays of Hope: Fringe Fusion Ventures Take Small Steps Toward Energy Leap
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/unorthodox-nuclear-fusion-research-ventures-report-progress-n370131
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2015, 07:19:04 PM »
The latest prediction by Tokamak.

Fusion Power Could Be Here By 2020, U.K. Company Says
Quote
Tokamak Energy, from Oxfordshire, believes that the third version of their compact, spherical tokamak reactor will be able to reach temperatures of 100 million degrees Celsius by 2020. That's seven times hotter than the center of the sun and the temperature necessary to achieve fusion.
http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/innovation/fusion-power-could-be-here-2020-u-k-company-says-n475676
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A-Team

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2015, 08:45:55 PM »
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if one reads about fusion it is staggering how little people know about physics.
Staggering how little people know about *any* topic in science. The US peaked about 15 years after Sputnik, 1972 or so. To be followed by a downhill skid into New Age thinking, a further skid into twitter-style illiteracy, with 120 million people in the US alone on blot-out pills or opiates, not to mention alcohol and recreational drugs. 

Freely abundant deuterium at 0.0156% of sea water? Does Lockheed not have access to wikipedia?
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The Bruce Heavy Water Plant in Ontario, Canada, is the world's largest producer of D2O. It uses the Girdler Sulfide (GS) process which incorporates a double cascade in each step. In the upper ("cold," 30-40 °C) section, deuterium from hydrogen sulfide preferentially migrates into water. In the lower ("hot," 120-140 °C) section, deuterium preferentially migrates from water into hydrogen sulfide. An appropriate cas-cade arrangement actually accomplishes enrichment. In the first stage the gas is enriched from 0.015% deuterium to 0.07%. The second column enriches this to 0.35% , and the third column achieves an enrichment between 10% and 30% deuterium. This product is sent to a distillation unit for finishing to 99.75% "reactor-grade" heavy water. Only about one-fifth of the deuterium in the plant feed water becomes heavy water product. The production of a single pound of heavy water requires 340,000 pounds of feed water.


Tritium is radioactive but extremely rare from natural sources. According to IEER, as of 1996, only 225 kg (496 lb) of tritium has ever been produced in the United States (by far the largest producer). Since it beta decays into helium-3 with a short half life, the total amount remaining was about 75 kg (165 lb) at the time of the report.

Please report back to us on Peak Lithium after the 230 billion metric tons of lithium in seawater is down to 1 billion tons. That would be after using up the 12 million tons of convenient surface lithium salt deposits in Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, US and Afghanistan. With global demand to maybe hit 0.05 tons per year by 2019. So 240 years of salt plus 4,600,000 years of reverse osmosis brine (lithium ion batteries are readily recycled).

Free fusion energy is a horrific concept -- heat death following acceleration of the huge biological extinction crisis which is already well underway from worldwide unsustainable growth and high impact lifestyles, extinction today is only being compounded at the margins now by climate change.

A brief history of fusion breakthru's. Easy to remember because it never changes:

Breaking news 5 Dec 15: Fusion Power Could Be Here By 2020, U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 10: Power Could Be Here By 2015, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 05: Power Could Be Here By 2010, U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 00: Power Could Be Here By 2005, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 95: Power Could Be Here By 2000, U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 90: Power Could Be Here By 1995, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 85: Power Could Be Here By 1990, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 80: Power Could Be Here By 1985 U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 75: Power Could Be Here By 1980, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 70: Power Could Be Here By 1975, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 65: Power Could Be Here By 1970, U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 60: Power Could Be Here By 1965, U.S Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 55: Power Could Be Here By 1960, U.S Company Say

Solar panels ... here are the best prices in the US. (Don't forget to add on punitive tarifs installed by Obama after a bribe from a German solar company plus hefty punitive monthly bills from your local AZ utility company if you put surplus energy back into the grid. Not joking.)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 08:53:12 PM by A-Team »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2015, 02:35:11 PM »

A brief history of fusion breakthru's. Easy to remember because it never changes:

Breaking news 5 Dec 15: Fusion Power Could Be Here By 2020, U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 10: Power Could Be Here By 2015, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 05: Power Could Be Here By 2010, U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 00: Power Could Be Here By 2005, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 95: Power Could Be Here By 2000, U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 90: Power Could Be Here By 1995, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 85: Power Could Be Here By 1990, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 80: Power Could Be Here By 1985 U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 75: Power Could Be Here By 1980, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 70: Power Could Be Here By 1975, U.S. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 65: Power Could Be Here By 1970, U.K. Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 60: Power Could Be Here By 1965, U.S Company Says
Breaking news 5 Dec 55: Power Could Be Here By 1960, U.S Company Say

But this time, they really mean it!  ;)  ;D
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A-Team

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2015, 12:52:08 PM »
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this time, they really mean it!
No, you got taken in by hoaxsters/fraudsters/scammers. New age magical thinking is not going to save us. The billions the US wasted just on the Tokamak could have put distributed solar on every feasible rooftop.

I recommend this whole forum be deleted.

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staggering how little people know about *any* topic in science.
Physics, chemistry, biology ... it doesn't matter which.

Here is what we are up against today in the US: the leading American newspaper telling its millions of readers the plural of ostrich is ostrichs, does not realize the ostrich is native to South Africa, that no conservationist would create a preserve for a common exotic species, that a rhea is no more closely related to ostriches than a chicken to a chicken hawk, human to an anteater, etc etc.
 
The ostrich, Struthio camelus, is native to Africa
Emus are native to mainland Australia; Tasmanian emu became extinct after European settlement.
Rheas are native to South America (Rhea americana, Rhea pennata)
Cassowaries native to tropical forests of New Guinea and northeastern Australia.
Kiwis native to NZ
Tinamous 47 species of birds native to Central America and South America most closely related to moa
Moa native to NZ, Haast's eagle only predator, extinction occurred in 1440 from overhunting by Māori

See http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/31/7/1686.long
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 03:15:27 PM by A-Team »

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2015, 03:24:38 PM »
The whole forum, A-Team? Or just this thread?

I appreciate being reminded of the "progress" being made.  One of these decades, something might come to pass.  However, having once lived off the grid (with a ~1KWH/day photovoltaic system), I am far more supportive of decentralized power grids and low energy usage lifestyles.  (That "horrible" New Age revolution wasn't only a bad influence on society.)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2015, 03:28:52 PM »
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this time, they really mean it!
No, you got taken in by hoaxsters/fraudsters/scammers. New age magical thinking is not going to save us. The billions the US wasted just on the Tokamak could have put distributed solar on every feasible rooftop.

I recommend this whole forum be deleted.

You are taking my quote out of context.  Those emojis were there for a reason!   ;D

Since several laboratories and universities are working on fusion reactors, keeping up with the latest news is certainly advisable -- if only to be argued with cautionary notes such as yours.  If the thread was removed, how would we know the other side of the story? 

My money is, literally, currently on rooftop solar, trust me.  :)
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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2015, 05:46:03 PM »
This forum will self-destruct in 10, 9, 8, 7...

Just kidding.  ;D

A-Team, it's even worse. This thread is about some cold fusion invention that has been stabbed in the heart several times already, but keeps coming back.

Any news yet on De Rossi's patent and orders worth billions of $?
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A-Team

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2015, 10:46:34 PM »
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fusion reactor orders worth billions of $?
Nah, I'm putting my money in fake fuel stations, specifically Shell's. They make it from ordinary water just using electric. They have a sure thing going with this, not real sure why they bothered drilling the Arctic. :-[ :-X :-\ :'( :( >:(

Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2015, 11:40:22 PM »
 Sorry, A-Team.  It seems Germany, also, has yet to get the word that fusion won't work. :P  ;D

10 December 2015:  Wendelstein 7-X fusion reactor comes online
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The Wendelstein 7-X fusion reactor has been powered up for plasma operation for the first time, briefly heating helium to around 1 million degrees Celsius.

Built by the Max Planck Institute for Plasma Physics (IPP) in Greifswald, Germany, W7-X is the largest and most advanced stellarator ever built. In development for well over a decade, its construction took nine years and involved over a million hours of assembly. It is hoped the reactor will act as a proof of concept, demonstrating that stellarators could be used in power stations of the future. 
http://www.theengineer.co.uk/energy/news/wendelstein-7-x-fusion-reactor-comes-online/1021553.article
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jai mitchell

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2015, 05:06:13 PM »
we already have the technology to transform our entire economy into a fossil-fuel free system AND begin the necessary extraction of CO2 from the earth's atmosphere.

what we lack is the political will to do so.

I agree with A-Team, this thread should be deleted.  Well, maybe as a record of how much waste is spent on the hubris of technophiles and misdirection of government research funding as directed by fossil fuel industry giants.

Nuclear Fusion is a dead end. 
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A-Team

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2015, 05:20:09 PM »
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a record of misdirection of government research funding as directed by fossil fuel industry giants.
Right. This is just another channel for their disinformation, a supplement to the secretive funding of denier groups: promote pie-in-the-sky technologies that they know full well will never pose a threat to the value of their fossil fuel reserves.

It's designed to function as a divisive wedge issue to dissipate the energy of groups and individuals interested in the overall subject. It works because the colossal widespread ignorance of introductory science and lack of analytic skills makes even well-meaning people susceptible to any kind of nonsense.

What exactly are we waiting for:

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The red squares represent the area that would be enough for solar power plants to produce a quantity of electricity consumed by the world today, in Europe (EU-25) and Germany (De). (Data provided by the German Aerospace Centre (DLR), 2005) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertec
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 05:31:18 PM by A-Team »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2015, 08:58:30 PM »
No one is suggesting we stop the efforts to go carbon-free, as quickly as we can using the technology we have!  (Plus the related technology we will develop as we go forward.)  But hey, humans have the capability to do more than one thing at a time....

   Why "waste" the money?  Because, for example, the race into space in the 1960's resulted in earthly technology we now use every day.  A few scientists working on fusion might come up with something no one today could even guess.  Claim it's worthless if you like, but fusion research is happening, so let's keep an eye on it.  It might surprise everyone and save our butts some day.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2015, 04:31:55 PM »
If fusion powered atmospheric CO2 scrubbers reduced atmospheric levels back to 350 ppm in 50 or 100 years (starting, say, 50 years from now), what havoc would this play on climate and weather and, especially, species?  Ocean acidification could be reversed by grinding up mafic rocks.  All this geo-engineering would be "fun" but every effort will have unintended consequences!
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Re: Is this the Nuclear Fusion we are looking for?
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2016, 11:41:55 PM »
Earlier this week Angela Merkel pressed the button to switch on the first hydrogen plasma test of the Wendelstein 7-X stellarator at the Max-Planck-Institut für Plasmaphysik:

http://www.ipp.mpg.de/livestream_e_16

The video doesn't seem to be embeddable. I tell a lie. Here's the YouTube version:




Here's another one from December 2015 when the first helium plasma test took place:



« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 11:53:03 PM by Jim Hunt »
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