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Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 650977 times)

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5450 on: May 14, 2019, 11:15:20 PM »
Blast from the past: Guy who covered up torture appointed to investigate the investigators




Wikipedia:

"In 2008, John Durham was appointed by then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey to investigate the destruction of CIA videotapes of detainee interrogations.[9][10][11] On November 8, 2010, Durham closed the investigation without recommending any criminal charges be filed.[12] Durham's final report remains secret but was the subject of an unsuccessful lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act filed by The New York Times reporter Charlie Savage.[13]"

"In August 2009, Attorney General Eric Holder appointed Durham to lead the Justice Department's investigation of the legality of CIA's use of so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques".[14] Durham’s mandate had only been to look at those interrogations that had gone "beyond the officially sanctioned guidelines", with Attorney General Holder saying interrogators who had acted in “good faith” based on guidance from the Bush Justice Department were not to be prosecuted."

"In May 2019, Attorney General William Barr assigned Durham to the task to look into the origins of the Russia investigation.[18]"

sidd

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5451 on: June 03, 2019, 03:42:23 PM »
Well, don't blame me for the Trump Presidency.
I was a lifelong Republican. In 2014 I left the GOP because of their War Against the Poor and their general craziness.
In 2016 I rejoined the GOP just so I could vote for Kasich against Trump in the primary. I then left again, but (very) reluctantly voted for Trump in the election.
I know a perfect way of electing a POTUS is impossible, but shouldn't we strive for at least an optimal one, instead of a pessimal one?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5452 on: June 03, 2019, 04:25:48 PM »
Well, the whole electoral college is a fucked up system in the first place. Broken beyond repair as much of the US constitution in general.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5453 on: June 24, 2019, 06:36:51 PM »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5454 on: June 24, 2019, 10:11:39 PM »
Sjursen at antiwar on imperial presidency, a craven congress and apathetic populace:

"Genuine legislators – that spent more time following international policy instead of obsessively raising money – would all revolt and restrain the president  regardless of their political party. We’re unlikely to see that. "

"Which places this author, and all Americans really, in the awkward, and pathetic, position of having to praise the lunatic-in-chief for not doing the unthinkable. "

"We’re all guilty, all complicit, in the hijacking of the Constitution. So it was that I personally endured combat in two ill-advised, immoral wars in the Greater Middle East."

" Citizens, real citizens I mean, could hit the streets, flood their congressmen’s’ offices, and shut down the whole damn country until the president adheres to the Constitution. It’s genuinely possible, but, of course, will not happen. "

https://original.antiwar.com/Danny_Sjursen/2019/06/23/giving-trump-credit-but-not-too-much-on-iran/#

sidd

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5455 on: July 01, 2019, 03:03:33 PM »
Let's talk about 14 characteristics, 10 stages, and where you are....



magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5456 on: July 01, 2019, 11:01:55 PM »
Let's talk about 14 characteristics, 10 stages, and where you are....


YES

i just sent this to a few dozens, especially old friends who got blinded over the pressure of
money making and ass leeching their superiors.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5457 on: July 02, 2019, 08:20:32 AM »
Nice! Thanks, Mag!

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5458 on: July 08, 2019, 09:07:27 AM »
Zaretsky at LRB argues that charisma in Weber's sense is a key to the Trump presidency:

" the charismatic leader has three qualities, all of which Trump exemplifies, and all of which the Democrats misunderstand."

"the charismatic leader’s power rests on beating rivals in competition, rather than on knowledge or right of inheritance; the charismatic leader is always an expert in struggle. Their status as victor, however, is always in doubt."

" Obama’s switch from charismatic leader to pragmatic manager once he took office left a void into which Trump stepped eight years later. It is impossible to understand Trump’s historic role without seeing that he is fulfilling, however perversely, the promise of a new beginning that Obama made in 2008."

" it is Trump’s charisma, not his personality, that needs to be understood"

"he stirs up fury and hatred, along with loyalty and admiration. Both the love and the hate arise out of an intense personal connection, which is what Weber meant by charisma. "

"the Democratic candidate must convey a sense that he or she will fulfil the promise of 2008: not piecemeal reform but a genuine, full-scale change in America’s way of thinking. It’s also crucial to recognise that, like Britain, America is at a turning point and must go in one direction or another."

https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2019/june/trump-s-charisma

sidd

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5459 on: July 08, 2019, 11:25:23 AM »
he stirs up fury and hatred, along with loyalty and admiration.

Like a true autocrat...

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5460 on: July 10, 2019, 06:47:53 AM »
From another thread:

First of all, I voted for Trump. I'm neither proud nor ashamed of it, and I'd do it again in 2016, and will do it again in 2020. And I know Trump is clearly not a good person. What politician is? But despite that, I still know he's almost certainly worse than the average politician when it comes to character and ethics in general.

Additionally, I don't know enough about the climate to assert it confidently, as truly knowing requires knowing a lot of data - you can't know AGW is real unless you have a good grasp on a lot of data. It's not so simple as looking at a picture from space and seeing the Earth is round, or watching a boat disappear bottom first over the horizon.

That being said...

Blaming Russia is downright sinister. The presidency was Hillary's to lose. If she tried to win, and didn't call 1 quarter of voters deplorable, irredeemable, she might have had a chance. If she wasn't the most entitled candidate in American history, maybe she would have considered working for it, in the primary too - and had a real primary for that matter.

Remember the debate when Trump was condemned for not immediately saying he's accept the results of the election?

Well guess what happened. Trump won fair and square, Hillary lost, and SHE didn't and still doesn't accept the results of the election. Few professional democrats will condemn the lie that Trumps win was tainted. It was not.

It is a Saul Alinsky tactic to accuse others of what you are yourself guilty. It's standard operating procedure for many professional politicians who are on the same right/left side.

The greatest threat to our republic is those in power that think it's a legitimate venture to try to overturn the election, and engage in endless investigations, just because they don't like the outcomes.

Democrats don't respect election results unless they win. That's why they are a greater threat to the republic than Trump could ever be. Because they don't respect the rules of the system.

That is also what makes the press legitimately the enemy of the people. Trump is spot on on that matter.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5461 on: July 10, 2019, 08:21:55 AM »
First of all, I voted for Trump. I'm neither proud nor ashamed of it, and I'd do it again in 2016, and will do it again in 2020.

Wer mit den Nazis marschiert, ist auch ein Nazi!

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5462 on: July 10, 2019, 08:23:56 AM »
Neven, this is outright white supremacy propaganda. I'm shocked you allow this.

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5463 on: July 10, 2019, 08:53:44 AM »
Neven, this is outright white supremacy propaganda. I'm shocked you allow this.

It is not outright white supremacy propaganda, and Trump supporters are welcome on this forum, depending on their behaviour/attitude. I can understand the FU to the establishment, even though I never would have voted for Trump myself, given that he is part of the establishment (even if they'd rather have a pretty face representing them, like Obama).

Trump is a symptom of the problem. You don't solve that problem by shunning the 'deplorables'.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5464 on: July 10, 2019, 09:19:09 AM »
Re: white supremacy

i see nothing in that comment that Neven posted saying anything about race.

sidd

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5465 on: July 10, 2019, 09:31:40 AM »
It's a one on one copy from the alt-right playbook excluding the most horrible stuff.

But hey, give them a platform if you think this is the right thing to do.

Gumbercules

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5466 on: July 10, 2019, 10:20:30 AM »
It's a one on one copy from the alt-right playbook excluding the most horrible stuff.

But hey, give them a platform if you think this is the right thing to do.

Please see Sidd's response. Consider how much you just assumed about me without any evidence. Aren't we supposed to be all about science and reason here?

Your response actually makes me want to vote for Trump more. Isn't that weird? It isn't. MANY people have similar reactions. I think similar reactions are WHY Trump won. A great deal of the electorate don't like how the left has gone off the deep end on many issues. They don't like all the assumptions made by the left about them, and reflexively take a harder turn right. Obviously both sides do this, which is also probably why the left took a hard turn left after Trump won and is now pushing what were until very recently extreme leftwing views. Both sides have reflexive, emotional responses to perceived pressure that are predictable at least in statistically significant populations, and it is worth understanding.

If you think Trump shouldn't get elected, wouldn't it be better to understand why a person that is scientifically literate (BS in engineering and active interest in astronomy, like hunting for fossils, astrophotography, I'm on this forum), and an atheist (my emphasis being that I'm NOT conservative/evangelical christian), and thinks eventually things like UBI (universal basic income - a very socialist-type policy) will eventually be necessary, a particular "Guy" (not a guy that attracts a big far right audience) brought me here and got me interested in sea ice loss, would vote for him, before you assume I'm just racist, white supremacist, alt-right(whatever that is) deplorable?

I mean you effectively said I shouldn't be allowed to speak, just because I'm a Trump voter. That's not how you win people over to your side, if you think your side should win.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 10:35:01 AM by Abradolph Lincler »

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5467 on: July 10, 2019, 11:40:59 AM »
AL, what would it take for you to not vote for Trump again? And does AGW play a role in how you vote?
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5468 on: July 10, 2019, 12:04:56 PM »
Your response actually makes me want to vote for Trump more. Isn't that weird?

Yeah, that's weird indeed. You would vote for him, but because of me, you vote for him more.

You just made a binary thing you already decided on weirdly about me.

Quote
assume I'm just racist, white supremacist, alt-right(whatever that is) deplorable?

You support Trump and therefore you support racist policies. You support concentration camps for example. You support children in cages.

Your motives don't matter anymore at this point.

I am German and i'm taking 'never forget' drop-dead serious.

Whatever you think about sides, you are on the wrong side of history.

Quote
I shouldn't be allowed to speak, just because I'm a Trump voter.

I get that you see it like that, but that's not it!

Just recently someone was banned because he supports BAU. You support BAU and even worse. Waaaaay worse! All the things the other dude was banned for, your post represent times 10.

In this context, i was asking Neven this question.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5469 on: July 10, 2019, 02:04:28 PM »
AL, what would it take for you to not vote for Trump again? And does AGW play a role in how you vote?

This was directed to someone else, but as I also voted for Trump, I will give my own answer.
It would take Trump switching to a pro-choice position on abortion, or a candidate on the Dem side who is both for stopping AGW and stopping abortion.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5470 on: July 10, 2019, 02:27:05 PM »
So let's support the one whose policies cause children to die in concentration camps in order to save children.

That makes no sense.

It's either you are pro-life, then you can't support Trump's politics or you are fuck-life.

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5471 on: July 10, 2019, 03:55:53 PM »


Blaming Russia is downright sinister. The presidency was Hillary's to lose.
You seem to be swallowing the Right's interpretation of what Democrats are upset about.  The outrage is minimally about a foreign power covertly influencing an American election.  The outrage is about one candidate seeking, encouraging and delighting in that foreign influence.  And seemingly suggesting a payback in sanctions relief.  There was plenty of implied quid pro quo (winks and nods reciprocally) but not anything explicit, thus not prosecutable.

Quote
Remember the debate when Trump was condemned for not immediately saying he's accept the results of the election?

Well guess what happened. Trump won fair and square, Hillary lost, and SHE didn't and still doesn't accept the results of the election. Few professional democrats will condemn the lie that Trumps win was tainted. It was not.
You seem to be swallowing the Right's interpretation of what Democrats are upset about. 
All elections are tainted.  Some worse than others.  The losing side always gripes about the other side's taint.  Hillary conceded.  Nobody of note is saying that Trump doesn't have the legal authority to sign legislation. 
The meme that Dems are motivated largely by being sore losers is false propaganda.  There are innumerable solid issues and reasons to be apoplectic about Trumps decisions.  Being a sore loser isn't among the motivations.
Quote
It is a Saul Alinsky tactic to accuse others of what you are yourself guilty. It's standard operating procedure for many professional politicians who are on the same right/left side.
You seem to be swallowing the Right's interpretation of Democrats.  Alinsky isn't some prophet for the Left.  Hillary wrote a college paper on his writings.  Very few on the left read or quote him.  Despite having the college background that the Right believe to be part of the vast left-wing indoctrination mill, I'd never heard of Alinsky until later talking with rightists who insisted that his writings were some kind of bible.  I've only ever heard of him from right-wingers, who invoke the name the way rabid anti-semites cite the "Protoccols of the Elders of Zion."

Quote
The greatest threat to our republic is those in power that think it's a legitimate venture to try to overturn the election, and engage in endless investigations, just because they don't like the outcomes.
Again, you seem to be swallowing the Right's interpretation of Democrats.
Agent Orange has engaged inn many impeachable offenses.  And unlike lying about a blowjob under oath, these represent dangerous corruption and abuse of power.
Quote
Democrats don't respect election results unless they win. That's why they are a greater threat to the republic than Trump could ever be. Because they don't respect the rules of the system.

That is also what makes the press legitimately the enemy of the people. Trump is spot on on that tmatter.
Again, you seem to be swallowing the Right's interpretation of Democrats.  Both parties are resentful and oppositional when they lose, approximately equally.  Both have sought to undermine winners.  Maybe you're overlooking how the Right went on and on, stupidly, about how Obama wasn't born in America, how McConnell vowed to make him a one-term president, how Republican beat on the Benghazi drum for years, when there was no real evidence that Hillary caused the tragedy.  And more.

There's right-leaning press and left-leaning press.  Most is actually center-right.  You might try to pay more attention to some of the Republican voices who've left the party because of Trump's dominance in it.  Folks like George F Will or David Frum, Joe Scarboro, David Jolly, and many more.  Solid conservatives who equally view Trump as a toxic disaster, even though most of us on the left have never previously agreed with much of anything they've ever had to say before.

Pragma

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5472 on: July 10, 2019, 03:58:11 PM »
First of all, I voted for Trump. I'm neither proud nor ashamed of it, and I'd do it again in 2016, and will do it again in 2020.

Wer mit den Nazis marschiert, ist auch ein Nazi!

Nein, aber wie man in den Wald ruft, so schallt es zururck!

Of all the political analyses I have seen, IMHO, this cuts to the heart of the matter. I'm sincere when I say it is brilliant, but those that need to hear it the most will likely ignore it as the rantings of yet another "deplorable".


b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5473 on: July 10, 2019, 04:15:29 PM »
Of all the political analyses I have seen, IMHO, this cuts to the heart of the matter.

That's not the point.

I'm opposing fascism and fascist supporting people.

This is not about political analysis, this is about fundamentals. As said above, when someone supports concentration camps, racism, anti-science, anti-regulation, etc, the analysis is worth dog shit. The motives don't matter anymore.

Pragma

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5474 on: July 10, 2019, 04:30:40 PM »
Of all the political analyses I have seen, IMHO, this cuts to the heart of the matter.

That's not the point.

I'm opposing fascism and fascist supporting people.

This is not about political analysis, this is about fundamentals. As said above, when someone supports concentration camps, racism, anti-science, anti-regulation, etc, the analysis is worth dog shit. The motives don't matter anymore.

From your response, I have to conclude that either you did not watch it, or you did not understand it.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5475 on: July 10, 2019, 05:30:20 PM »
From your response, I have to conclude that either you did not watch it, or you did not understand it.

I watched it, i shared it at the time, i understand it, and i do even agree with the premise.

I'm afraid you still don't get my point. What i'm saying has nothing to do with it.


Tunnelforce9

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5476 on: July 10, 2019, 06:30:29 PM »
I think you are both missing a big piece of the puzzle.


https://ashesashes.org/blog/episode-79-death-dealers

tip: scroll down to look at the source material

Pragma

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5477 on: July 10, 2019, 06:44:58 PM »
I think you are both missing a big piece of the puzzle.


https://ashesashes.org/blog/episode-79-death-dealers

tip: scroll down to look at the source material

What you have done is the intellectual equivalent of a drive-by.

I am well aware of the Military-Industrial complex, as I suspect B_lumencraft is. It has been a worrisome issue since Eisenhower. What are we missing?

You need to explain how your link relates to whether or not someone who voted for Trump should be allowed to discuss or explain their position on this forum.

That is what we are talking about.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5478 on: July 10, 2019, 06:47:42 PM »
as I suspect B_lumencraft is.

Sure!

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5479 on: July 10, 2019, 06:57:48 PM »
AL, what would it take for you to not vote for Trump again? And does AGW play a role in how you vote?

This was directed to someone else, but as I also voted for Trump, I will give my own answer.
It would take Trump switching to a pro-choice position on abortion, or a candidate on the Dem side who is both for stopping AGW and stopping abortion.

There's limited evidence that criminalizing abortion actually reduces the numbers of abortions.  At least the middle class or affluent go to where it's legal.  The less affluent often resort to illegal measures locally, risking injury or death of the woman.

The most effective way to reduce the actual number of abortions is to avoid unwanted pregnancies.  IUDs (especially Mirena, of note) work for this end:
IUD program leads to big decline in teen pregnancies, abortions in Colorado
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/30/colorado-teen-pregnancy-abortion-rates-drop-free-low-cost-iud/

If you simply want to insert government control into reproductive choices, vote for a Republican.  If you actually want to reduce the number of abortions, vote for a Democrat.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5480 on: July 10, 2019, 07:21:37 PM »
There's limited evidence that criminalizing abortion actually reduces the numbers of abortions.

Actually, there is pretty good evidence that criminalising increases the number of abortions.

magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5481 on: July 10, 2019, 07:27:46 PM »

First of all, I voted for Trump. ..........

to justify the election of an evil moron with some true statements is also a way politics are fooling their voters.

it's like self-justice, it's not legit. vote for a bad civilized person with some brain is still better than to elect a what has all been said about trump and is true.

- 1st problem, only 2 people to chose from, being a party persone it's even only one

- 2nd problem, hillary got WAY more votes hence the election system is heavily flawed

- 3rd problem, huge amounts of money is needed to get even close

- 4th problem people think in WE against the rest of the world terms and that's
. an approach for wulf-packs not for "Menschen" and i mean the 2%, not the rest that is walking on
.  two legs

You imply that some of us won't give you the right to vote for trump? that's wrong because it IS your right to vote for anyone you like BUT we/I then have the right to get exited and tell you that it is/was a huge mistake, multiplied to a horrible result as we shall see soon or not so soon, history wil tell as always but the path that was taken will lead to disaster, like if we wouldn't have plenty of other problems to solve, [shake head]

there are many more problems here that don't belong here, hence i wish you a pleasant time @all
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 07:36:43 PM by magnamentis »

magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5482 on: July 10, 2019, 07:31:59 PM »
Your motives don't matter anymore at this point.

I am German and i'm taking 'never forget' drop-dead serious.

Whatever you think about sides, you are on the wrong side of history.

I get that you see it like that, but that's not it!

Just recently someone was banned because he supports BAU. You support BAU and even worse. Waaaaay worse! All the things the other dude was banned for, your post represent times 10.

In this context, i was asking Neven this question.

hehe... was wondering how much it takes LOL, nice to see you come out of the bush (of kindness)

i'm kidding (90%) IMO your replies and TONE are SPOT ON, not debatable at all. there are limits that should not be crossed.

+1

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5483 on: July 10, 2019, 07:37:37 PM »
Thank you, Mag. :)

magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5484 on: July 10, 2019, 07:39:32 PM »
Thank you, Mag. :)

"ABR_ADOLPH" certainly no coincidence, god am i angry, sorry, almost can't hold it.

going to vent in the pool (not heated and saltwater LOL)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5485 on: July 10, 2019, 07:46:04 PM »
god am i angry, sorry, almost can't hold it.

I know exactly how you feel, mate.

Get some sweets, good for the mood. ;)


magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5486 on: July 10, 2019, 08:02:26 PM »
god am i angry, sorry, almost can't hold it.

I know exactly how you feel, mate.

Get some sweets, good for the mood. ;)



but i look better than that THING and your offer is "poisonous" food ( processed ad infinitum)

[JUST KIDDING]

thanks back
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 08:09:35 PM by magnamentis »

Tunnelforce9

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5487 on: July 10, 2019, 08:05:14 PM »
I think you are both missing a big piece of the puzzle.


https://ashesashes.org/blog/episode-79-death-dealers

tip: scroll down to look at the source material

What you have done is the intellectual equivalent of a drive-by.

I am well aware of the Military-Industrial complex, as I suspect B_lumencraft is. It has been a worrisome issue since Eisenhower. What are we missing?

You need to explain how your link relates to whether or not someone who voted for Trump should be allowed to discuss or explain their position on this forum.

That is what we are talking about.


America is the biggest weapons dealer in the world and Obama sold far more weapons then Bush did or any other president after ww2.
The pentagon and the companies who they contract are among the largest polluters in the world.
If the Pentagon would need to go co2 neutral by 2050, America collapses.

If Hillary had won there wouldn't be much difference, instead the act would be upheld, the act that America is a "great"country. You only need to listen what she said in the past : black children are super predators.  She wont restructure prison system, she wont take on wallstreet, she wont take on the border issues and she wont take on the Pentagon.

Hillary would have ment keeping the status quo , remember Obama was part to blame for leaving the military co2 emissions out of the Paris accord.

I think given the situation in 2016 it was still a good thing to elect
Trump over Hillary.
Because Trump does represent what America really is.
It's the true face of America and has been for DECADES most people in Europe and other places around the world know this, it can't be that shocking.

America needed the shock effect, it's almost like a sect, when you tell them their leader(country/pentagon/business interest) molested young girls they wont see it, they make up ridiculous excuses.
The American public should take responsibility for past actions to start with, if you don't recognize your past deeds you cant work on improving your future.
And if you don't believe me, ask yourself why billions of extra dollars passed both the house and senate increasing the Military budget while the Democrats are in control of the house ?

I hope this wake up call sets the path to an open and honest dicussion, otherwise prosperity and climate action to protect all simply wont happen in America and a big part of the world..




Vote 4 justice democrats they are not paid by anny lobby or interest group.



gr, Eric

oren

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5488 on: July 10, 2019, 08:09:26 PM »
I nornally don't post in these garbage/pure politics threads, but I must say Abradolph Lincler's username requires an explanation.
I haven't seen anything racist or fascist in his posts, and Trump voting is not a crime (though imho a mistake). But his username is mighty suspicious. I don't find it funny.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5489 on: July 10, 2019, 08:12:24 PM »
Vote 4 justice democrats they are not paid by any lobby or interest group.

Word!

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5490 on: July 10, 2019, 08:17:41 PM »
But his username is mighty suspicious. I don't find it funny.

Exactly why my pulse went up in such an unhealthy way and made me go full opposition when i saw it.

magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5491 on: July 10, 2019, 08:20:38 PM »
I nornally don't post in these garbage/pure politics threads, but I must say Abradolph Lincler's username requires an explanation.
I haven't seen anything racist or fascist in his posts, and Trump voting is not a crime (though imho a mistake). But his username is mighty suspicious. I don't find it funny.

while i understand what you mean, political dispute and expressing one's opinion is by no means garbage. this is a respectless formulation and i assume it slipped out.

as someone in the last 20% of my expected life span i learned that real coincidences are very sparse and that most things can be explained and are followed by "AHAA......"

Tunnelforce9

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5492 on: July 10, 2019, 08:46:56 PM »
The name appears to be orginated from a Rick & Morty comic ???
Quote
Abradolf Lincler is a humanoid experiment debuting in Ricksy Business. He was created when Rick combined the DNA of Abraham Lincoln and Adolf Hitler, in an attempt to create a morally neutral super leader. He failed and the end result was a cognitively dissonant and morally-confused emotional trainwreck.
https://rickandmorty.fandom.com/wiki/Abradolf_Lincler

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5493 on: July 10, 2019, 08:52:18 PM »
cognitively dissonant and morally-confused

Username checks out  ;D

Good find Tunnelforce!

Tunnelforce9

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5494 on: July 10, 2019, 09:06:34 PM »
Quote
"Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil."

And i want to add to that:  the cumulative effect goes unnoticed to most of the population untill it's (far) to late.

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5495 on: July 10, 2019, 10:38:31 PM »
Re: " As said above, when someone supports concentration camps, racism, anti-science, anti-regulation, etc, the analysis is worth dog shit."

So all of Stark's physics should be ignored as specious because Stark was a Nazi ?

To return to the thread: Appeals court rejects lawsuit against Trump on basis of emoluments clause. Lets see if it goes to the Supremes and if they decide to hear it.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/452388-appeals-court-dismisses-emoluments-clause-lawsuit-in-win-for-trump

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5496 on: July 10, 2019, 11:01:38 PM »
AL, what would it take for you to not vote for Trump again? And does AGW play a role in how you vote?

This was directed to someone else, but as I also voted for Trump, I will give my own answer.
It would take Trump switching to a pro-choice position on abortion, or a candidate on the Dem side who is both for stopping AGW and stopping abortion.

I would like Neven to add a dislike button.

Poldergeist

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5497 on: July 10, 2019, 11:12:41 PM »
I nornally don't post in these garbage/pure politics threads, but I must say Abradolph Lincler's username requires an explanation.
I haven't seen anything racist or fascist in his posts, and Trump voting is not a crime (though imho a mistake). But his username is mighty suspicious. I don't find it funny.

Well, I just figured it's an amalgam of Abraham Lincoln and Adolf Hitler, before reading the Rick and Morty reference. I don't know them. But I do know who Adolf was. Anyone who calls himself a half (ass) Hitler, is out of his mind. Well, voting for Trump proved that as well.

I do not care if his name is taken from a cartoon character. Outside that sketch (and probably within it as well), just not funny.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 11:28:05 PM by Poldergeist »

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5498 on: July 11, 2019, 12:35:16 AM »
Of all the political analyses I have seen, IMHO, this cuts to the heart of the matter. I'm sincere when I say it is brilliant, but those that need to hear it the most will likely ignore it as the rantings of yet another "deplorable".


Excellent, indeed. I'm surprised I hadn't seen it before.

I told Abradolph his name wouldn't sit well (besides the spelling mistake), but that was probably the idea. I don't think anyone here needs to worry that this guy is going to take over the forum. But I'm still hoping he'll answer my questions, given that we don't get a lot of Trump supporters here. He does seem to take Arctic sea ice loss seriously (we've already PM'ed over a first comment I didn't let through).

AL, what would it take for you to not vote for Trump again? And does AGW play a role in how you vote?
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Gumbercules

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5499 on: July 11, 2019, 12:44:25 AM »
AL, what would it take for you to not vote for Trump again? And does AGW play a role in how you vote?

Second question first and maybe only.

First of all, I'm not convinced AGW is real, but it seems like it is. I can grant CO2 is a greenhouse gas because I'm not equipped to challenge it. And Venus being warmer than Mercury seems to support it. In upstate NY weather has been too warm, not enough snow for my liking, though some places are colder. And we had a period this spring where it rained 8-9 days out of ten for something like 6 weeks. It was weird. Not a lot of rain, but it rained some amount almost every single day. So weather has been less "normal". But that's not enough to convince me its true. The least likely coincidence would be stranger than the total absence of coincidence. So weird weather isn't enough. And I don't have the time to study all the data that would be required to come to an understanding that would justify a high degree of confidence that GW is true in all its causes and implications. I'm also turned off by the very propagandish way people talk about it. Many people say it's as obvious as the Earth being round. NO. It isn't. I can see the Earth is round with my eyes by looking at literally one picture or seeing one event, like a lunar eclipse, or just look at any other planet through my own telescope. and gravity means things like to be spheres. KNOWING AGW is real requires many hours of study. Most people who say it's just obvious have no idea what they are talking about and are generally not scientifically literate. They just take it on faith because they're supposed to and it's consistent with their political ideology.

That being said, I can tentatively grant it's true. And we shouldn't ignore the environment, obviously. And generally, the less our impact on it, the better.

However AGW plays no role in my vote and probably never will. I'm fairly capitalist at heart. Capitalism is the almost a perfect economic analogy of evolution. In evolution if something works better than others, it will replace things that occupy the same niche but don't work as well. Conversely, if something doesn't work, evolution doesn't care how much the species wants to live. It's doomed. If the environment changes in a way the species cannot adapt to, it will die. The same behavior exists in capitalism, except you can transmit the equivalent of genes across the equivalent of species.

Additionally, if you place excess arbitrary burdens on a species that will also kill it. The same applies to business.

Basically, evolution works and it's impossible to overpower it. It's less about biology than it is about probability. Capitalism works and it's hard to prevent it from working. If we try to hard to control the process we will kill the process. So I'm very wary of exerting excess control on business because it's unnatural. Along those lines, I think either we will solve AGW with technology or it can't be solved. If we put excess control on industry we could prevent the solution.

Take for instance the price of hydrocarbons. Say decades ago we put price controls on them to raised the prices to discourage use and raise money for taxes to fund research. But the increase price makes it more expensive to experiment, because all experiments require energy. And decreased consumer use means less consumption, a smaller market for advanced technologies. A lot of incentives for technological development are removed.

As a result, the slowdown may prevent the technology necessary to address AGW from ever being created. Instead of advancement, we stagnate. So emissions may stay lower than they have grown to now, but we prolong them, and possibly impose stagnation that prevents a solution from ever being created, because you need an excess capacity in order to do research. If everyone is just subsisting we just keep emitting, but never learning anything that will help us wean ourselves off hydrocarbons. So the net result may be worse than just letting capitalism take care of it, and may actually doom us to a very dystopian outcome.

So I think we need very gentle controls on capitalism to solve the problem. Too much control and we upset the evolutionary process and might actually prevent progress.

That's why I don't care much about policy as it relates to AGW. We'll solve it without upending business and culture. If it can't be solved without that, we need massive disruption to solve it, and that would likely get messy, and possibly lead to war, and if a major war broke out billions could easily die along with the environment getting totally trashed along the way. 




« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 12:49:38 AM by Abradolph Lincler »